Re: [PD] Strange bug in my patch
On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 9:26 PM, Caio Barros caio.bar...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/3/4 Chuckk Hubbard badmuthahubb...@gmail.com I'm sorry, I can't resist- A bug in your patch, that sounds like a personal problem! Anyway I'm glad you got it resolved. I wouldn't have made a crass comment if it weren't resolved! -Chuckk That should sound funny for native english speakers, but I'm not! Patch, as far my dicitonary tells me it's just a piece of tissue or pieces of tissue sewed together. But I forgive you... just because I got my (personal) problem resolved. Yeah, I know it's annoying when people make jokes you don't understand. I live in Romania and people do it to me too. Well, patch can also be a small area of grass or hair or fur. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Delete scalars
Simulating mouse motions is not ideal, but it works. One problem would be if you have two scalars in the same place. If you want to delete the bottom one, at least when you do it manually, you have to move the top one first. -Chuckk On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 3:07 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@eds.org wrote: Try searching the mailing list archives on this one. I don't think it is possible, except for doing it by simlulating mouse motions with messages. .hc On Jun 13, 2008, at 1:36 AM, Lau Llobet wrote: I'm building some grafics in my pd project. I add some objects with the [append] but i need to erase them, i have found no way to delete them except by using ; pd patch-data clear message or array resizing , non of them is usefull to me because i need to erase some of them with no order. I've read that Pointers are safe: if you delete a scalar pointers to it are marked invalid. so i think there'll be a way to delete scalars , in fact i can do it manually with a Ctrl-X. Is there any way to do it ? thank you very much !. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list 'You people have such restrictive dress for women,' she said, hobbling away in three inch heels and panty hose to finish out another pink-collar temp pool day. - Hijab Scene #2, by Mohja Kahf ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] traverse self?
I'm sorry, I think this was asked before, but I can't find it in the archives. Can a pointer be set to traverse the current patch? Like [traverse .( ? I'm trying to do it in an abstraction, so I don't know if it should have pd- before it, or if it's possible. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] A slightly more substantial question
Hi Ken. I haven't used the jack_transport object, and I don't know what its format is; but, assuming you can translate it into audio samples, one very simple way would be: [bang~] | [jack_transport] | ([expr] or whatever format conversion you need) | [$1 64( | [tabplay~] If you change [block~] size, then the second number in the message box would have to change too. 64 is the default number of samples per block, and [block~] outputs one bang per block. I don't know if this is necessary or not; perhaps it wouldn't stray anyway. On the other hand it might work better to make the number 72 or something higher than the block size, so you don't have gaps if it does stray... -Chuckk On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 4:18 AM, Ken Restivo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm trying to create a PD application that'll be sync'ed to jack transport as a sort of master clock. I found the jack_transport object, loaded it, and it runs. If I bang it regularly with a metro, I can see the current sample in jack transport. So far so good. My question is about what'd be the most efficient/effective way to sync up a tabplay~ or tabread4~ object to the sample clock in jack transport. So far I've considered the following approaches: 1) Bang jack_transport with the output of a sig~ or phasor~ object, getting the clock from jack, and use that to hit tabread4~ (I don't know how I'd do this with tabplay~ though, and performance is an issue so if tabplay~ is cheaper I want to use it). 2) Bang jack_transport with the output of a metro every n milliseconds, and calculate what sample I'm supposed to be at in the tabread4~ or tabplay~ object, and just re-sync periodically if they drift. If they aren't ever going to drift (i.e. if PD's internal sample clock is sync'ed to JACK), then perhaps this resyncing will only happen at the start of playing, or perhaps I only need to do it then. 3) Or, maybe, let's say if I have a loop, I just need to bang the tabplay~ whenever the sample clock in jack_transport divided the number of samples in the loop is modulo 0. That'd be simplest and probably cheapest, but I don't know if the clocks will drift. Will they? I dunno. I'm asking you guys when probably I should be asking the software instead, by just trying it out and determining empirically what works. But before I get too deep into it I'd like to get a second opinion on whether any of the above approaches will work or if there's some other technique I should be looking at. For some reason I suspect that this'll go really easily, but I want to make sure I'm not overlooking anything important. Thanks. -ken ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Google SoC: call for mentors and project ideas
On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 9:42 AM, Chuckk Hubbard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 10:55 AM, Georg Holzmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo! I'd like to apply for some Mentos. I like mixed fruit or grape. As for Pd, I can't think of something major enough to call for Google SoC, but I'll keep thinking. I think the projects should not be too big. This is maybe something we can learn from last year. It would be nice to have compact projects which would be e.g. also manageable by people new to the pd community ... In that case, I might think of a few possibilities for anyone who is open to them. I have just a minor suggestion for an improvement. What if it were possible to edit a Pd patch as text from within Pd? I often open a patch in a text editor in order to mass copy sends and receives or GUI elements or whatever. The syntax is straightforward enough that sometimes this is quicker than clicking, for a whole bunch of items. It would be cool if I could do that from within Pd, without closing the patch... -Chuckk ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd sounds better than Max?
On Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 4:59 AM, Andy Farnell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You take as many sines as the system will handle, typically a thousand or so, and sum them. All must start on exactly the same phase. Now, if we had a series of _all_ frequencies it would give us an impulse, but instead set the difference between each oscillator to be 1 cycle + delta, where delta is very small, maybe 1Hz or less. This is an interesting concept, thanks for passing it along. Hardly very scientific, but roughly from the few chances I've had to try it on different systems... Csound - the King, all bow before Csound yeah boyee -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd sounds better than Max?
On Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 3:19 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 8, 2008, at 5:30 PM, Martin Peach wrote: Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: It would be very nice to have a cleansound library of dsp objects, perhaps ported from Csound. You can already use [csoundapi~], which comes with most csound varieties, to access anything in csound from pd. Right, but doesn't that mean you write your instruments in Csound, then control them in Pd? I was thinking Pd objects using the csound code. Seems obvious, doesn't it? AFAIK it would be perfectly legal to take the code directly. I find [csoundapi~] very useful. I tend to think, if you want Csound, use Csound, but as a Linux enthusiast I think it's generally better for an option to exist than to not exist. How the two programs are structured is a different question. I don't know for sure, but it might take some substantial changes. Csound uses vectors and scalars for audio and control signals, somewhat different than block size. Then again it might translate easily, I dunno. Csound has a huge library, some of the more advanced stuff might be useful too, not just oscillators. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Google SoC: call for mentors and project ideas
On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 10:55 AM, Georg Holzmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo! I'd like to apply for some Mentos. I like mixed fruit or grape. As for Pd, I can't think of something major enough to call for Google SoC, but I'll keep thinking. I think the projects should not be too big. This is maybe something we can learn from last year. It would be nice to have compact projects which would be e.g. also manageable by people new to the pd community ... In that case, I might think of a few possibilities for anyone who is open to them. [...] Dunno if that's worth a Summer of Code commission though. If it is, I hope at least one of the mentors will fill out the application as The Freshmaker. Do you want to apply as student or as mentor ? I don't know if a Freshmaker is suggestive, maybe try to formulate it in a more compact way with some definitive points which should be done. Sorry, I was making a dumb joke about old Mentos commercials; I suppose they were only shown in the US. I look forward to seeing how this turns out! -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] stale pointer? - the exact problem
On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 5:55 PM, pit klong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hello list, my problem is: after having deleted a data structure, i cannot create a new one. the error is append: stale pointer. what is wrong? Hi. Nothing wrong, you just gotta send the traverse bang message again. I believe the pointer stays pointing to the head of the list, but when you delete the last thing added the pointer goes away with it into limbo. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Google SoC: call for mentors and project ideas
I'd like to apply for some Mentos. I like mixed fruit or grape. As for Pd, I can't think of something major enough to call for Google SoC, but I'll keep thinking. There are lots of things for which I've created workarounds that I don't think about much anymore. For instance, when searching through a subpatch for one kind of pointer, if I have the outlet for other pointers directed into a next message, with a sizable list, I get stack overflows, so I use [del 0], which eliminates the stack overflow but sometimes necessitates another delay later in the chain to prevent the next thing from happening before the list is finished. Dunno if that's worth a Summer of Code commission though. If it is, I hope at least one of the mentors will fill out the application as The Freshmaker. -Chuckk On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 3:30 PM, Georg Holzmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo! We discussed at the LAC that we would like to apply again this year for google's summer of code project, which is about to start today (http://code.google.com/soc/2008/). I started a wiki at: http://puredata.info/dev/summer-of-code/GoogleSummerOfCodeIdeas/ where everyone can put in ideas and wishes. Of course you can also write your ideas to the mailinglist for discussion and I will add them afterwards to the wiki. Every pd developer who wants to support the project but is no student anymore is invited to join as mentor, since the number of sponsored projects by google depends on the number of mentors and students. So please put in your ideas and apply as mentor and student ! One more question: Who of the mentors would like to make the main communication with google ? Because someone has to fill out the application (the material from last year is also at http://puredata.info/dev/summer-of-code/GoogleSummerOfCodeIdeas/ and http://puredata.info/dev/summer-of-code/SummerOfCode ). I would suggest Hans or IOhannes or anyone else who wants to spend some time with it ;) LG Georg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] some new music written with PD
I concur with the others, this is very nice music. I'm happy to know it was made with Pd. -Chuckk On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 8:15 AM, Max Waters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hello everyone, i've posted this link in the forums too, but thought lot might like to have a listen too. anyway, I've been using PD for a while but have only just started writing music which is substantially based around PD-generated/sequenced/processed sounds. i thought you might like to hear some of it: http://sciencegirlrecords.com/maxwaters/ cheerio then max ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] any tips on fart synthesis?
I wonder, would a bandpass help to get a good duck sound? I mean the crying baby fart, like waa!. I hear a few good ones in there. I'm guessing that, as the abdominal muscles tighten, more pressure is applied to the sphincter, causing it to relax and generate a lower tone. But at the same time it sounds like there's a formant getting higher, to go from oo as in spoon to a as in bad. -Chuckk On Feb 5, 2008 6:59 PM, Ypatios Grigoriadis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello! Here is another fine example, featuring pitch control. http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/2/5/1741776/XmasJingle.mp3 alabala -- Ypatios. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] any tips on fart synthesis?
I think physical modeling might hold some answers. And as always, lots of research can't but help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatulence Lots of things to consider there. -Chuckk On Feb 1, 2008 3:16 PM, Claude Heiland-Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Anyone got any advice on how to make sounds similar to the basses in this excerpt from Nightwalker - Rolling Through [NWR005]? http://claudiusmaximus.goto10.org/files/temp/fartstep.ogg (80kB) Really stinky wet fart noises. Thanks, Claude -- http://claudiusmaximus.goto10.org ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] What exactly is a stack overflow ?
On Dec 17, 2007 11:15 PM, Mathieu Bouchard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 17 Dec 2007, Martin Peach wrote: The cpu signals an overflow whenever the stack space runs out (the program tries to access the stack beyond its boundaries) With Pd, this is never what happens on its own. Instead, just before processing each message, a check of the count of nested message processings in made (messages sent that are still being processed, not counting those scheduled by [delay] and stuff). I have understood the overflow part to mean that stack overflow refers to a situation where the process of writing info to the stack continues past the memory reserved for the stack, writing to unspecified places in memory; if a safeguard stops it before then, it doesn't really overflow, does it? Seems to me it's an error message about a stack overflow- perfectly appropriate of course- but that it doesn't actually happen. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] hardcore nerd question
I as well recall something similar, but I don't recall where, the author, or even if it was a story or just a thought experiment; but I do recall someone making the claim that with the right listening equipment, in the right location, he could record Jesus' last moments on the cross. Makes me think of Contact, where the others received that one Hitler speech after 50 or 60 years. -Chuckk On Dec 11, 2007 3:47 PM, Andy Farnell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a sci-fi story I once read, an inventor creates a device that can listen into the past by recovering long passed conversations from the thermal heat in a building. The author has totally slipped my mind. Does anyone remember this story and who wrote it? Cheers, Andy -- Use the source ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] array indirection
Well-done, that looks like the perfect solution. I did notice these functions mentioned in the code, with xmargin and ymargin as arguments of a longer function call, but I hadn't followed up to see what else went in the message. I believe this is your answer, Phil. Another one for msg-docs, I think. -Chuckk On Dec 10, 2007 1:11 PM, Jean-Yves GRATIUS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I have tried to change graph-on-parents settings by message for displaying different arrays, it seems to work.. I did'nt test it with large tables. (included patch : switchingGOPtables.pd). Jean Yves Gratius http://jy.gratius.free.fr Chuckk Hubbard a écrit : On Dec 9, 2007 10:50 PM, Phil Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Chuck, I think you're right; there's no way to avoid the copying. It's good to dream, though. :-) I have done some experimenting, and I think I'm on to something. If you create a graph from the put menu, then right-click and select Open; and then Put an array on the opened subpatch, you can see the red outline where you can decide what will be graphed-on the parent graph. It would not be too hard to send editmode and mouse movement messages to that canvas to move arrays around inside it; and it probably would actually be more efficient than copying. But I also notice that the graph subpatch has, in its options, an x and y margin, which moves the red outline. IF it's possible to change these values with messages, it could be trivial to move that red outline to cover several well-placed arrays, meaning that the graph would indeed switch arrays like you want. I started to look at the Pd code to see if I can find such a message mentioned; if I find it I'll let you know. -Chuckk Chuckk Hubbard wrote: It would be possible, if not CPU-efficient, to have them all hidden in table objects, and simply use tabread and tabwrite to copy them to the skeleton array when you want to switch. You would only need one tabread and tabwrite pair, just different ways to specify the target of tabread. I would envision binding the tab key to page through them. But it is possible to put several arrays in one graph which makes me wonder if there might even be a pure GUI way to do it. Kind of makes me want to take a look... -Chuckk On Dec 8, 2007 10:26 PM, Phil Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This probably fits into the category of a wish for PD; I think there's no way to do it currently, but I'd love to be proven wrong! I'd like to be able to change the data an array points to rather than actually change the data in the array. The scenario which me think of this is, I'd like to have a display of a currently-selected waveform (which could be one of many pre-allocated arrays). It would be wonderful to have a level of indirection where the display-array can be given a new address [object reference?] to one of the various pre-allocated arrays, after which it redraws itself. I suppose this unleashes all the evils of pointers (multiple references to memory, etc.), but it would a serious advantage, performance-wise, for the scenario I'm envisioning. I also think it would be very cool if arrays could act as buttons...but that's a different subject. Phil Stone pkstonemusic.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list #N canvas 303 9 704 687 10; #N canvas 0 524 610 502 subpatch 0; #X obj 201 120 cnv 15 200 150 empty empty empty 20 12 0 14 -233017 -66577 0; #X obj 200 321 cnv 15 200 150 empty empty empty 20 12 0 14 -233017 -66577 0; #N canvas 0 0 450 300 graph4 0; #X array table2 100 float 1; #A 0 0 0 0 0.0714288 0.157143 0.171429 0.257144 0.314287 0.342858 0.42 0.457145 0.514288 0.557145 0.62 0.657145 0.73 0.714288 0.757146 0.757146 0.771431 0.785717 0.785717 0.785717 0.83 0.83 0.814289 0.814289 0.814289 0.814289 0.814289 0.814289 0.814289 0.814289 0.814289 0.83 0.757146 0.614288 0.514287 0.414287 0.378573 0.342858 0.257144 0.21 -0.471431 -0.52 -0.62 -0.62 -0.62 -0.62 -0.62 -0.62 -0.585717 -0.571431 -0.557145 -0.542859 -0.514288 -0.52 -0.485716 -0.47143 -0.450002 -0.428573 -0.414287 -0.42 -0.392859 -0.385716 -0.357144 -0.328573 -0.285715 -0.21 0.114286 0.142858 0.228572 0.242858 0.27143 0.31 0.314287 0.328573 0.328573 0.328573 0.328573 0.328573 0.328573 0.328573 0.328573 0.328573 0.31 0.257144 0.171429 0.142858 0.128572 0.114286 0.128572 0.171429 0.228572 0.242858 0.257144 0.257144 0 0 0; #X coords 0 1 99 -1 200 140 1; #X restore 200 330 graph; #N canvas 0 0 450 300 graph3 0; #X array table1 100 float 1; #A 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0142856 0.0571424 0.071428 0.114285 0.157142 0.164284 0.171427 0.214284 0.271426 0.28 0.35714 0.37 0.442854 0.471425 0.46 0.528567 0.557138
Re: [PD] array indirection
On Dec 9, 2007 10:50 PM, Phil Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Chuck, I think you're right; there's no way to avoid the copying. It's good to dream, though. :-) I have done some experimenting, and I think I'm on to something. If you create a graph from the put menu, then right-click and select Open; and then Put an array on the opened subpatch, you can see the red outline where you can decide what will be graphed-on the parent graph. It would not be too hard to send editmode and mouse movement messages to that canvas to move arrays around inside it; and it probably would actually be more efficient than copying. But I also notice that the graph subpatch has, in its options, an x and y margin, which moves the red outline. IF it's possible to change these values with messages, it could be trivial to move that red outline to cover several well-placed arrays, meaning that the graph would indeed switch arrays like you want. I started to look at the Pd code to see if I can find such a message mentioned; if I find it I'll let you know. -Chuckk Chuckk Hubbard wrote: It would be possible, if not CPU-efficient, to have them all hidden in table objects, and simply use tabread and tabwrite to copy them to the skeleton array when you want to switch. You would only need one tabread and tabwrite pair, just different ways to specify the target of tabread. I would envision binding the tab key to page through them. But it is possible to put several arrays in one graph which makes me wonder if there might even be a pure GUI way to do it. Kind of makes me want to take a look... -Chuckk On Dec 8, 2007 10:26 PM, Phil Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This probably fits into the category of a wish for PD; I think there's no way to do it currently, but I'd love to be proven wrong! I'd like to be able to change the data an array points to rather than actually change the data in the array. The scenario which me think of this is, I'd like to have a display of a currently-selected waveform (which could be one of many pre-allocated arrays). It would be wonderful to have a level of indirection where the display-array can be given a new address [object reference?] to one of the various pre-allocated arrays, after which it redraws itself. I suppose this unleashes all the evils of pointers (multiple references to memory, etc.), but it would a serious advantage, performance-wise, for the scenario I'm envisioning. I also think it would be very cool if arrays could act as buttons...but that's a different subject. Phil Stone pkstonemusic.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] code and compilers
On Dec 8, 2007 4:38 PM, Andrew Brouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: An old-school hacker (poet turned progammer, classic!) once told me that he used to debug his programmes (on mainframes, with not even 1M of memory) by actually just watching a display of activity in all memory locations. After a while, he just subconsciously internalised what was going on and managed to debug the code. I like that. It sounds strangely fulfilling. It's like a deaf composer writing a symphony. Cribbage was invented by a poet. Sometimes they surprise us! William Rowan Hamilton, on the other hand, was said to enjoy writing poems, and was encouraged to stick with math... -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] array indirection
It would be possible, if not CPU-efficient, to have them all hidden in table objects, and simply use tabread and tabwrite to copy them to the skeleton array when you want to switch. You would only need one tabread and tabwrite pair, just different ways to specify the target of tabread. I would envision binding the tab key to page through them. But it is possible to put several arrays in one graph which makes me wonder if there might even be a pure GUI way to do it. Kind of makes me want to take a look... -Chuckk On Dec 8, 2007 10:26 PM, Phil Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This probably fits into the category of a wish for PD; I think there's no way to do it currently, but I'd love to be proven wrong! I'd like to be able to change the data an array points to rather than actually change the data in the array. The scenario which me think of this is, I'd like to have a display of a currently-selected waveform (which could be one of many pre-allocated arrays). It would be wonderful to have a level of indirection where the display-array can be given a new address [object reference?] to one of the various pre-allocated arrays, after which it redraws itself. I suppose this unleashes all the evils of pointers (multiple references to memory, etc.), but it would a serious advantage, performance-wise, for the scenario I'm envisioning. I also think it would be very cool if arrays could act as buttons...but that's a different subject. Phil Stone pkstonemusic.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] select issues
On Nov 30, 2007 10:10 PM, Mathieu Bouchard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 30 Nov 2007, Chuckk Hubbard wrote: I agree with Martin. [route] is meant for lists, There's something really weird about [route] (as it is in 0.40): It will only route selectors if I don't give any float arguments, but will only route a list's $1 if I give any float arguments. Can anyone confirm and explain this? The help file claims one should not mix floats and symbols, but [route] does not reject it, and then clearly does something useful that can't be done any other easy way. Could that have something to do with how the list selector is assumed with multiple floats, but must be explicit if $1 is a symbol? -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] non-selectable data structure
On Nov 30, 2007 2:25 AM, gilberto bernardes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear all Can someone tell me please if there is any way to keep a structure (in a data structure patch) non-selectable? An -x at the beginning of [drawpolygon] will make it so. The help patch for [drawpolygon] mentions it, but I don't see an example. I could whip one up later. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] select issues
On Nov 29, 2007 8:45 PM, Martin Peach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is [select] supposed to do with a list? Just select based on the first element? I think it should reject lists altogether and suggest the use of [route]. I agree with Martin. [route] is meant for lists, [select] is meant for floats or symbols. I suppose lists don't work with [select] for the same reason [route] doesn't have a right inlet, considering what Frank pointed out. If you connect all but the right outlet of [route] to [b], you have a [select] that handles lists and has no right inlet. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] get audio IN to pd on windows
On Nov 26, 2007 8:40 PM, hard off [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 4, maybe 8, perhaps even 16 channels of audio...going out of ableton live (or logic, or cubase, or whatever) and into pd, ..in windows I think it depends on the soundcard. I had an Audigy previously and it was set by default to have 6 or so channels that could be set as input/output. I believe I had to set input in the mixer, to Mic, Wavetable synth, what you hear, etc. I never actually used that many channels, though, and it's been a long time since I relied on Windows. Actually that was one of the things I hated about my university's Macs, that you had to send all audio through the external sound device. I guess you could try holding a microphone up to the speaker. Does ASIO4all have any option to do this?? If I work on my wife's Mac, I'll be sure to check out soundflower16; the university didn't allow students to install software, but my wife's far more trusting. -Chuckk ...without much fuss am i dreaming? or does someone know of a way to do this? (on mac, i'd just use soundflower16) ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Building a compressor in PD?
On Nov 28, 2007 2:08 AM, Vreahli the Audio Bandit [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Heya - I'm just curious - is it even possible to build a compressor in PD without coding it in C? The only way I can think of getting the overall loudness of a signal is by checking audio rate stuff - which won't work with control rate values. Just a curiosity. :) [env~] gives such a level at control rate. It's also possible to re-block~ a subpatch to 1, calculate whatever average or level you like there, and pass it out; then [bang~] in the containing patch will grab a value from it once per block. It wouldn't be hard to have an audio-rate rms or peak calculator, then use [bang~] and [snapshot~] to read it, if [env~] isn't good enough for you. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd filter with pole and zero
On Nov 23, 2007 9:54 PM, cyrille henry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hello, i know there is a lot's of filter externals available for pd, but i'd like to use some using rpole~ / cpole~ etc. I like playing with raw filters too. I don't have any references to add to Claude's, and really for me it's more a matter of getting through the references I already have. Miller's book has a very good explanation, lots of graphs, lots of explanations for the rotation and complex number stuff, but still lots of detail. I've also used the graphing abstractions in H14.all.pass.pd, substituting rpole~ et al to see the frequency and phase response as I change the values. I also found the [fexpr~] object educational. I wonder what more knowledgeable people will say to this: my impression has been that, as interesting as filter design is, and although it's possible and not terribly difficult to learn to understand it well, it is not something that will necessarily become intuitive with practice. That, to design specific filters, it will still be a matter of performing series of calculations to know what values to use, rather than sort of knowing what to put. Thoughts? -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [Pd] Writing subpatch contents, was Re: [Csnd] Writing subpatch contents
On Nov 21, 2007 11:28 PM, Roman Haefeli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2007-11-21 at 18:36 +0900, hard off wrote: yeah, but what chuck wants to know is WHICH objects are in his subpatch. so...if he puts a slider, 2 number boxes and 3 arrays in a subpatch, he needs something that will tell him that the subpatch contains a slider, 2 number boxes and 3 arrays. and then in another subpatch there might be 6 number boxes all connected to a [pack] object going into a [send] ssaad will only tell you the values OUTPUT by these objects...but it won't tell you WHICH objects are in place. how comes that it is 'unkown', which objects are in the subpatch? either it is known, because there is a finite number of different kinds of subpatches or these are created dynamically by messages to canvas. in the latter case, the content of the subpatches is know, because it was created by another patch. so in either case the content is know. this also means, that you can put the list of known objects in one or more messages and thus can be saved by ssaad system. (sorry, if i missed an important point of that thread, but i just can't think of a case, where a list of objects is unkown) Not sure I understand. I have 8 subpatches, which could as well be 8 abstractions, though I've set up a working system for now. Each of those subpatches is to be a free playground while working on any one piece. Each is for sending control messages to Csound for one of the 8 voices I may use in any one piece. For each piece, I will create a different patch; some will need [line] objects, some will need sliders, some will need toggles, etc. So when I load a piece into my sequencer, I want to have the 8 patches I created for that piece load automatically, and when I save the piece, I want the objects and messages in that subpatch to save to a separate file for the piece. What I've done was, whenever saving a piece, sending set #N canvas etc to a textfile object, then saving it as the name of the piece plus number of instrument, then copying all the contents of each subpatch and pasting into that file, then [;pd-file.pd menuclose 1(. When I load, open the file, selectall, copy, close, open the subpatch, paste, editmode 0, vis 0. Works for me. Only annoyance is that it now tells me my sequencer has been edited and should be saved; since I'm pretty much done building the sequencer, I just remind myself not to save it (if I save the patch with an open piece, the list of notes makes the patch too big for Pd to open and when I open it again half the stuff is missing). So there is not always a list of objects; only when it is copied from one existing patch to another. They're initially created by me playing around. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [Pd] Writing subpatch contents, was Re: [Csnd] Writing subpatch contents
On Nov 22, 2007 11:58 AM, Frank Barknecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo, I would indeed use abstractions for this. They can be saved with Ctrl-S, which is easier than your subpatch saving, which seems overcomplicated to me. But of course to each his own. ;) To save all 8 automatically with one button would then involve sending [key] messages to all of them for Ctl-S, no? To have 8 abstractions that reside in the program and save to separate files to be loaded again on cue would take exactly the same amount of work as using 8 subpatches, if I'm not mistaken. Otherwise I guess I could delete the 8 abstractions every time I wanted to work on a different piece, and create 8 more for the new piece. As far as I can tell that requires at least editmode 1, a mouse sweep to select the 8, then sending a backspace key message, then 8 messages to create 8 objects for the new abstractions; and if the abstractions don't already exist, I still have to use textfile to create them. As it is all I do is type the name of the score and hit load. The 8 subpatches are automatically filled. When I hit save, they are rewritten. If I save a new piece, 8 new files are created in a special folder with the name of the piece + instrument number, and written from the subpatches. I am experiencing frequent crashes since setting this up, not sure where they come from. MUST be fixed, as I have already lost small bits of work as a result... More later. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] fft beginner question
On Nov 22, 2007 12:33 PM, Chuckk Hubbard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 22, 2007 1:34 AM, Mathieu Bouchard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: FFT can also be defined to only use real numbers, but the formulas are more complicated and the data layout is slightly irregular. Pd does not support those: it supports real-to-complex hybrids, just to avoid the If I run two rfft's from the same signal, and multiply the imaginary outputs, do I get negative squares? I'll see... [osc~] | [rfft~] | \ [*~] | [tabsend~ foo] gives all positive results... -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] fft beginner question
On Nov 20, 2007 5:39 PM, Frank Barknecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For some calculations polar, for others cartesian coordinates are easier to use. To quote Miller: The main reason we use complex numbers in electronic music is because they magically automate trigonometric calculations. We frequently have to add angles together in order to talk about the changing phase of an audio signal as time progresses (or as it is shifted in time, as in this chapter). It turns out that, if you multiply two complex numbers, the argument of the product is the sum of the arguments of the two factors. I still don't exactly understand why one couldn't just use (x, y) vectors; why the y value has to be multiplied by something imaginary. I mean, i/j is *defined as* the square root of -1, but it can't really *be* the square root of -1... I've accepted it and moved on to more practical questions, but that is still mysterious for me. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [Pd] Writing subpatch contents, was Re: [Csnd] Writing subpatch contents
Oops. I meant to put [Pd] On Nov 19, 2007 4:55 PM, Chuckk Hubbard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe the question of saving automation data has come up before, but this is a different question, I think. I want to write and read the objects in a subpatch to and from textfiles; not the state of the objects, nor scalars, but the patch itself. Is there a way? I have 8 voices in my sequencer, and 8 subpatches for creating control values to send to csoundapi~. But each Csound orchestra I work with will have different parameters for different instruments, and so the 8 will be different from each other, as well as being different depending on what score I open in my Pd sequencer. So I gave up on using abstractions with arguments, because whenever I change one they all change. But AFAIK subpatches can't be read and written by sending messages to them. Any ideas? Is there a 'menusaveas' message or something? -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [Pd] Writing subpatch contents, was Re: [Csnd] Writing subpatch contents
I'm using pd-0.41.0-test05. The messages documented in http://dh7.free.fr/pd-msg/pd-msg_05.tar.gz aren't working for me. the [saveto( message kills pd, with or without an argument. I'm guessing this is the message that would solve my problem. Has anyone used it in the past? Is this msg documentation still applicable to 0.41.0-test05? -Chuckk On Nov 19, 2007 5:25 PM, Chuckk Hubbard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oops. I meant to put [Pd] On Nov 19, 2007 4:55 PM, Chuckk Hubbard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe the question of saving automation data has come up before, but this is a different question, I think. I want to write and read the objects in a subpatch to and from textfiles; not the state of the objects, nor scalars, but the patch itself. Is there a way? I have 8 voices in my sequencer, and 8 subpatches for creating control values to send to csoundapi~. But each Csound orchestra I work with will have different parameters for different instruments, and so the 8 will be different from each other, as well as being different depending on what score I open in my Pd sequencer. So I gave up on using abstractions with arguments, because whenever I change one they all change. But AFAIK subpatches can't be read and written by sending messages to them. Any ideas? Is there a 'menusaveas' message or something? -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [Pd] [swap] help incorrect
[swap] help says: The swap object stores numbers from its left inlet to output on its right inlet -- after repeating its right hand input out the left. It should say: The swap object stores numbers from its left inlet to output on its right inlet -- before repeating its right hand input out the left. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [Pd] How to load/save subpatch content dynamically
This patch will load subpatches from existing .pd files. Actually, it copies them. Requires zexy. Seems crazy that it takes this many objects to do it, but this is the simplest way I could find, due to some of the little idiosyncrasies of Pd. I'll post a reply soon with another to save subpatches to .pd files (to copy them back). If it works, it should be possible to dynamically save and load the content of subpatches externally. If anyone knows a simpler way, please tell me. Does not work completely with .pd files containing the [csoundapi~] object, FYI. I think it ends up pasting the clipboard into tabularasa before completely loading the patch. Anyone know how to skip over the Close this Window? message? Maybe sending key messages for Ctrl-Shift-w? -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com my-convolution.pd Description: Binary data ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [Csnd] Writing subpatch contents
On Nov 19, 2007 5:51 PM, Frank Barknecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo, Maybe you can script something with select all copy and paste, but did you try to use one of the saving systems like [sssad] to save parameters? I don't know what exactly is in your subpatches, but I'm pretty sure [sssad] can be made to save it. (taking my mouth quite full here ;) Thanks again, I'll check it out. I discovered that the message [; pd-abstraction.pd menuclose 1( closes abstraction.pd with no warning message, btw. I'm curious what other hidden messages I can discover peeking through code. Quite likely half the workarounds I cobbled together when first learning Pd were unnecessary. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [Pd] Graphics Toolkits?
On Nov 6, 2007 3:34 PM, cdr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: when you say Tcl is wacky, just how wacky do you mean? I noticed that its handling of most programming capabilities is pretty off-beat, but I'm finding it very easy to learn and understand. Would you say there are serious flaws or inefficiencies, or is it just idiosyncratic? in the 'scripting language written in C' category, Perl wins any idiosyncratic contest. TCL also far from Lua in speed. like Lua and unlike all the others (Python, Ruby), you have to invent your own OO system, however Lua has syntactic sugar for 'object methods' and a native language feature for 'method lookup' so it has an edge here. all of the above are embeddable in C apps to some extent, but Lua wins that contest handily, being designed for that from the start. Thank you very much for all this info. It may not mean much to you, but it's very useful for me. I'm leaning now towards building the program in C, with Tk bindings; my 2 most beloved audio tools are open-source C, Pd and Csound, and my free days are numbered, so I think I'll spend them practicing a language I need to know better anyway. I'll save this email. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] First time PD troubles: A programmers confusion.
On Nov 8, 2007 11:12 PM, Timothy Sikes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi First of all, this is my first email to this email group, so, I want to make sure that asking 'newb' questions is okay, and that this would be the place to email those 'newb' questions. As long as you don't mind newb answers... I'll tell a little bit about some things that might be helpful in answering my questions. I started Python when I was in 7th or 8th grade, and loved it. I started working through one of the O'Reilly's Python books. Now, I am taking a Java class, and loving it too ( have a 103%). So when I got PD, I thought I would just have to learn how to apply these things I've learned in Python and Java to PD. I went through the documentation, and just got confused. Next, I tried to find some basic tutorials on the web with no avail. Finally, I looked at the examples that came with the installation. These were by far the best introduction to PD, and I understood them... Until I got to the flow of control ones. It's the one where the counter counts up to ten, then stops, with another that is a counter that goes up by one, and you clear it by pressing the -1 button. I am not so familiar with object-oriented programming myself, but the best understanding I have is that it's like Pd without the pictures. I come from the opposite direction from you. Actually I learned programming first with Pd, not realizing that's what I was learning. Each object in Pd has methods, properties, and messages. Most of them are pretty straightforward. [float 0] or [f 0] is an instance of [float]; it has the property 0, which can change, and float, which can't; it has one method to replace its value (a float sent to its right inlet), one method to send a message of its value (a bang message to its left inlet), and one method to do both in that order (a float to the left inlet replaces and then sends a message). Where it sends the messages it sends, and from where it receives the instructions it receives, are not for the object itself to worry about. The [+ 1] object has one method to add 1 to its input and output the result (a float to the left inlet); a method to replace the argument 1 (float to the right inlet); and if I'm not mistaken, it also remembers its last left-side input, so if it has already received a float to the left inlet, then a bang to the left inlet repeats the operation the same as before. AFAIK there are no other methods of the [+ 1] object; anything it does is one of those three things. Not including error checking (it won't accept a symbol as input or argument). One of the fundamental concepts of Pd that arises a lot in newbie confusion is depth-first message passing. I don't know if such a thing is present in Java or Python or not. I'll take a stab: if two messages are sent by the same object at the same time, then one is always sent before the other one, and every method or message instigated by the first is performed to completion before the second message is sent; if message A goes right before message B, but kicks off C, D, E, F, and G as results of A, no matter how far removed, they all happen before B. This makes the [trigger] object one of the first to learn. It lets you say whether A or B happens first, and it includes a handy sort of case mechanism. Most of the flow control derives from this one concept, and the methods of the various objects. Remember, I program, so if it could be explained as if I were programming, that would probably help me. I don't understand what the term 'bang' refers to in these examples, along with why certain 'inlets' connect to certain 'outlets', or the flow of control in the programs, or where the 'count' variable is and how to manipulate it. I feel that once I understand these things, I'll be able to have loads of fun with PD. So, Please help, and: I hope I haven't insulted your intelligence with my explanation. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [Pd] Graphics Toolkits?
Gumby, nice, lol. I have now discovered that someone created Tcl/Tk interpreters for Csound too. There goes the next few months of my life. I have to ask, though (reply off-list if it's too OT): when you say Tcl is wacky, just how wacky do you mean? I noticed that its handling of most programming capabilities is pretty off-beat, but I'm finding it very easy to learn and understand, as others have said. Would you say there are serious flaws or inefficiencies, or is it just idiosyncratic? -Chuckk On 11/6/07, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tcl is whacky, but Tk is quite flexible and well developed for making GUIs. Check out tomorrow's auto-build if you want to make your mouse cursor turn into gumby :) It's in hcs/cursor-help.pd .hc On Nov 5, 2007, at 8:12 PM, Chuckk Hubbard wrote: I have now discovered the wonder that is Tcl/Tk. There goes the next few weeks of my life... -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [Pd] Graphics Toolkits?
I have now discovered the wonder that is Tcl/Tk. There goes the next few weeks of my life... -Chuckk On 11/3/07, Chuckk Hubbard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello. I am brainstorming about rewriting a Pd patch I wrote as a standalone program, for several reasons. I wrote it very haphazardly the first time, learning to program simultaneously. I've since gained a much greater understanding of C, and a smattering of some other languages. Also, the other musicians I try to share my program with seem unable to figure out how to configure Pd (I still find it difficult, honestly). I'd also like to use my program to apply for grants, so I think it would be well to be standalone. I understand that Pd uses Tcl/Tk, but I don't know much about these tools. What kind of libraries or toolkits enable the functions of things like [drawpolygon] and [drawnumber]? I didn't see anything resembling that in the info I read on Tcl/Tk, but I did see the possibility of using image files, which I think would be just as good. I've also picked up some knowledge of OpenGL from Gem; might that be an option for a sequencer GUI? Advice appreciated. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] new pd wiki - practical data - includes forum
On 11/3/07, Steffen Juul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 03/11/2007, at 8.02, hard off wrote: i just set up a new wiki for pd, aimed at providing a simple and easy way for pd users to share their patches / tutorials, etc... There is also the http://puredata.info website people can use. For tutorials for instance folks can add to http://puredata.info/docs/ tutorials Sometimes less is more, like when I try to look up info on the latest version of a library and find numerous Google hits that link to different sites that were created and abandoned at different stages, all with different versions. I'm all for centralization; however, I've never liked the puredata.infolayout and setup. When you find a link to a file, you first have to visit the page where the file is listed, and for those of us in remote parts of the world without the best internet connections, it sucks to have to wait for one more page, when you could just as well start the download immediately. I'm all for a wiki (public editing means less chance of a site being neglected), but I thought there already was one?? -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [Pd] Graphics Toolkits?
Hello. I am brainstorming about rewriting a Pd patch I wrote as a standalone program, for several reasons. I wrote it very haphazardly the first time, learning to program simultaneously. I've since gained a much greater understanding of C, and a smattering of some other languages. Also, the other musicians I try to share my program with seem unable to figure out how to configure Pd (I still find it difficult, honestly). I'd also like to use my program to apply for grants, so I think it would be well to be standalone. I understand that Pd uses Tcl/Tk, but I don't know much about these tools. What kind of libraries or toolkits enable the functions of things like [drawpolygon] and [drawnumber]? I didn't see anything resembling that in the info I read on Tcl/Tk, but I did see the possibility of using image files, which I think would be just as good. I've also picked up some knowledge of OpenGL from Gem; might that be an option for a sequencer GUI? Advice appreciated. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] wiimote with ir sensor bar
I thought I read that the ir-leds are angled slightly outward. Perhaps the amount of light detected from each is affected by the angle, which could be used to solidify the position? -Chuckk On 10/28/07, Roman Haefeli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 2007-10-28 at 01:12 -0700, punchik punchik wrote: Hi , is there any way of using the ir sensor bar with the wimote in pure data? yes, that is possible. the sensor bar is nothing else but two groups of ir-leds, that are used as a reference point in space. you couls also use a lighter (or up to four) instead. the wiimote just sends you the coordinates of the reference points' (ir-led, lighter, whatever) projection on the wiimote's intenal ir-camera. Is it posible to track the movements of people carrying wimotes in real space with puredata? no, that is not quite possible with the sensors, that wiimote is equipped with. it has 3 accelerometers (x, y and z), but it is very difficult (probably impossible) to calculate a position out of this data. it would be possible to calculate the position with the data from the ir-camera, but then you would need at least 3 reference points and they would have to be always visible for the cam. since the angle is quite narrow, it is probably not too suitable for position tracking. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] about sexy-ism
Violence as a response to people with different values- was this comic drawn by a man? -Chuckk On 10/27/07, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Funny, I think that exact comic came up earlier in this never-ending thread. Very apropos... .hc On Oct 27, 2007, at 7:26 AM, Hannah Drayson wrote: This sums it up for me... http://xkcd.com/322/ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list It is convenient to imagine a power beyond us because that means we don't have to examine our own lives., from The Idols of Environmentalism, by Curtis White ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [Pd] Arbitrary command line arguments
Is it possible to send a command-line argument that can be used as $n inside a patch? If not, it might make a nice feature some day. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [Pd] Arbitrary command line arguments
Okay, I figured out -send. -Chuckk On 10/28/07, Chuckk Hubbard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is it possible to send a command-line argument that can be used as $n inside a patch? If not, it might make a nice feature some day. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [Pd] Arbitrary command line arguments
In the patch: [receive bajesus] | [particular] In the command line: pd -open patch -send ;bajesus sugar-smacks The semicolon makes all the difference. I also found that it works to say -send ;bajesus $VAR inside a bash script, if you're into that kind of thing. I have no idea where the message goes if you don't use a semicolon. -Chuckk On 10/28/07, David Merrill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hey Chuckk -I was wondering about this just yesterday.. How do you address the message to a particular object when you invoke the -send flag from the command line? Can you show an example? thanks, -David M. On Oct 28, 2007, at 7:50 AM, Chuckk Hubbard wrote: Okay, I figured out -send. -Chuckk On 10/28/07, Chuckk Hubbard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is it possible to send a command-line argument that can be used as $n inside a patch? If not, it might make a nice feature some day. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] ENOUGH Re: about sexy-ism. Let's talk data structures
I don't know about arrays, but graphical data structures definitely set Pd apart from Max, Csound, SuperCollider, Reaktor, Reason, etc. etc. Unfortunately I don't know a good tutorial; graphical data structures take a minute to learn and a lifetime to master. The html manual has most of the basics, although some important features were added recently to make them far better. You can put the -x flag in [drawpolygon], [drawcurve], [filledpolygon], and [filledcurve] to prevent the resulting object from being selected in edit mode. Because of this, in my sequencer, I can now move notes without selecting barlines. A nice feature would be the same -x flag for [drawnumber]... I agree that sexism is not a good thing to talk about here; but it's one of the hardest things for people not to talk about, eh? -Chuckk On 10/28/07, Ede Cameron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's a good thing to talk about, graphical data structures. I was looking for a tutorial on this last week, Some one in my class had built an additive synthesizer that could be manipulated graphically. He had figured this out from a Pd online tutorial but I could not find such a tutorial on the web. Any one know of such a tutorial Seems to me that this and arrays is what sets Pd apart from MaxMSP. Ede On 28-Oct-07, at 12:57 PM, Ed Kelly wrote: I think the whole point is that we need to terminate this thread now. I don't want my students to find a bunch of purile mysoginistic nonsense, nor do I want them to find that we're spending all our time debating such a thing. This is my final word: ENOUGH! Now can we talk about something interesting, like graphical data structures? Ed Lone Shark Aviation out now on http://www.pyramidtransmissions.com http://www.myspace.com/sharktracks - Original Message From: Chuckk Hubbard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: PD-list@iem.at Sent: Sunday, 28 October, 2007 10:43:28 AM Subject: Re: [PD] about sexy-ism Violence as a response to people with different values- was this comic drawn by a man? -Chuckk On 10/27/07, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Funny, I think that exact comic came up earlier in this never-ending thread. Very apropos... .hc On Oct 27, 2007, at 7:26 AM, Hannah Drayson wrote: This sums it up for me... http://xkcd.com/322/ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list -- -- It is convenient to imagine a power beyond us because that means we don't have to examine our own lives., from The Idols of Environmentalism, by Curtis White ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Try it now. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] about sexy-ism
While the post was particularly vulgar, it's debatable whether knowing about sex is harmful to teenagers. It's also debatable in general whether it's anyone's responsibility to try to do what's best for other people's children. Anyway I suspect it's more the people around the teenage girl who don't want her to know, but if you want to control what a person knows beyond infancy you've got to resort to drastic measures, like controlling what strangers are allowed to say in public. The 1980's saw some ferocious attempts to censor music and music videos in the name of children. While there are definitely some things children may prefer not to know or think about, a) I don't think sex is usually one of them (my sister, at 12 or 15, would have thought the post was hilarious, and yes she would have understood it), and b) people with children don't rule the world! A 12- or 15-year-old in the US can turn on the TV and see shootings, drug dealing, political corruption, human trafficking, etc., etc., on the news or fictional shows, but let one woman's nipple appear through a tiny hole for a few seconds and all hell breaks loose. I'm a big fan of art, and subversive, offensive art is some of my favorite stuff. R Crumb, Frank Zappa, John Steinbeck, Sylvia Plath, Prince, Eminem, and John Lennon, just to name a few, have done some stuff many people would love to silence (and they try continuously). While the post about sexyism was really off-topic and a bit predictable, I like to think that if I made music with Pd that some people would consider offensive it would not be off-topic. Although many such off-topic Pd-object pun posts have come and gone with no mention of being off-topic because they didn't share the same tone and content... Are there any official rules for content on this forum? Does moderation exist? I have no problem with them if so, but I'm guessing the answers are both no? -Chuckk On 10/27/07, Chris McCormick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Would you have told this joke in a room with children within earshot? I hope not. The pd-list should be thought of a such a room. It's a room with many many different people of different ages and sexes, with different cultural backgrounds. It's a room where anybody is free to come and hear about Pure Data and share and learn, not where they come to be told offensive jokes. It's a room where it would be really nice if everyone's 12 and 15 year old sisters who want to learn about Pd felt completely comfortable. This list is about a versatile audio visual tool. I can think of absolutely no good reason why anybody who wants to learn about a versatile audio visual tool should have to feel offended or threatened here. I guess the key is to remember that not everybody here is just like you. Not everyone is offended, or not offended by the same jokes. Not everyone is interested in the same things. Yes, I am asking you to self censor. Just like you would self censor when you visit your grandmother. I am asking you to show some universal respect and consideration, which is not very difficult at all. If you want to express those kinds of things, please choose a different audience and forum, as this one is on the whole, not interested. Best regards, Chris. On Fri, Oct 26, 2007 at 03:26:34PM -0400, vade wrote: Its a joke. Get over it. Comedians do it at venues of over a 1000 all the time. Ever hear of George Carlin, Bill Hicks, Eddy Murphy (back when he was funny..), etc etc. Whether or not the PD list is the place for this, well, frankly, I'll agree it isnt, but that was my point about 3.5^10 emails ago - this thread is mind boggingly off topic - but that did not stop discussion over such amazingly interesting topics as the etymology of sexism, constructive comments about street jargon, academia and fun statistics over who applied and got accepted to what. Jesus fucking christ, its a joke about CONSENSUAL SEX USING PD OBJECTS AS A METAPHOR. OH NO. OH DEAR GOD OH MENSTRUATION. OH YUCK BOO HOO. No one notices Hard off also making fun of himself there. Ah, so typically one sided. Look. We are all humans. Some of us have vaginas, others penises. (hell some even have both) Some of us use PD and/or other Dataflow languages. Can we PLEASE GET OVER IT ALREADY? That email was more a comment on the lunacy of the aforementioned thread as well as some of you over intellectualizing every goddamn last minutiae of the topic - rather than an actual genuine heartfelt AFFRONT TO ALL OF WOMANKIND. Perhaps if you took of your lab coat, removed the various PHDs from behind your desk, and any other assorted academic paraphernalia that may be laying about* - including the self righteousness - you might see that last email as an attempt to cut through the bullshit of this topic. Im sorry I have to spell it out for you. *I am well aware that you and others may literally have said items
[PD] [Pd] Linux: [system]?
Hi. I am running Debian 64 testing, kernel 2.6.22.1 with Ingo Molnar's rt patch, Pd 0.41.0-test05, Jack 0.103.0, and Csound 5.06. I have a Csound file I'm running with csoundapi~, and I'm editing the Csound file while editing my Pd composition. Unfortunately, realtime scheduling doesn't work from the command line for Csound or Jack for some reason. I can use chrt to set rtprio for both, but not the standard commandline flags. The only reason I have a problem, then, is that I have to constantly reload/restart Csound when I make changes. Is there any way to send a message from Pd to run a shell script, or a single system command, so I can automatically chrt Csound to higher priority when I restart it? Thanks. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] about sexism
On 10/22/07, Andrew Brouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is clear, in any case, that for these sorts of gatherings in the Pd community, there is still a long way to go. As an old gauchiste, I have always believed that the ultimate goal for human society was for all people to be considered and treated as equals - in all aspects of life. I also always understood the notion of Politically Correct' - a critical term which originated in the left, but has now been co-opted by the right - to indicate the tendency, of some, to be more interested in linguistic semantics than material reality. I am interested in material reality. I am interested in seeing redress, actual material change - in our society, in our world - for those who have been materially disfavoured. I do what I can to help that process along. Sometimes this means for members of categories with many members who have been materially disfavoured. In fact many white men have been materially disfavoured, and if that's really the criteria for those deserving redress, then include those individuals. Otherwise, the wording is a little off. At the same time, there are real differences between women and men. There is no point trying to minimise those differences. Women are equal, but different. I think all people are not equal, and they are different. I understand what you're saying, I think, that women are as human or perhaps sovereign... but I don't like using the word equal to mean something it doesn't mean. I don't want to cause unnecessary waves, but I think an initiative to involve women in something like this- like this meaning open and free- resembles society-building. I guess on some things I can be libertarian. But to whose benefit is it to push for female involvement? Is involvement in Pd something that makes women's lives better? I think that your choice of words earlier (which I snipped) was good: enabling women and other Pd minorities is all good, but what if Pd just doesn't appeal to lots of women? It doesn't appeal to the majority of men, and definitely not to the majority of musicians, and I don't think that bothers any of us. I think not asking for sex/gender on the application for papers is the right idea. The best way to be gender neutral is not to make the distinction. It seems most of the community disagrees with me; I don't mean any slight to anyone, but this happens to be how I see the issue. -Chuckk What a beautiful difference. Andrew On 21-Oct-07, at 8:25 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Message: 3 Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 12:13:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Alexandre Castonguay [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism is TERMINATE THREAD PLEASE To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: pd-list@iem.at Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Hi all, Yves, Here are some facts may help explain and paint a correct picture of the convention's gender distribution. Number of applications received for the exhibition component : 9 (F) 26 (M) Invitations sent : 6 (F) 12 (M) Number of applications for performances (* I am unsure as to the gender of one applicant as we didn't ask people to specify it in their application.) 3 (F) 32 (M) Invitations sent : 2 (F) 18 (M) As Andrew Brouse noted, the applications for papers did not carry the author's names so it makes it hard to get a picture of the gender breakdown. Out of 46 'papers invitations', 2 were extended to women and I believe that may unfortunately be the number of applicants? Andrew may be able to answer to that. I believe that the impression Yves got is justified. It is just that the community is overwhelmingly male and 'white' (another thread!). It also seems that the juries for the papers, exhibition and performances were conscious of the fact as it is somewhat reflected in the final breakdown of invitations sent. Some observations on other parts of this long thread that may yet yield something positive. * The component of the convention that had the highest representation of women applicants was the exhibition. It shows that this form of contribution is often the way through which women enter the community. It should be maintained and expanded through other conventions. * I heard through the application process that some women were intimidated by the perceived technological sophistication of the pd scene and thought that their work may not be 'pure' enough to warrant an application. In that light, dismissing people whose work process calls on external expertise to be realized does not help with that perception of purity. * I am personally glad that our efforts of providing better documentation and access to the software got a renewed push through the work groups and discussions happening at the convention. * Building a more representative community will take
Re: [PD] about sexy-ism
On 10/26/07, Alexandre Castonguay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think the post and this attitude has no place on this list. The use of objects is smart but it doesn't excuse the moronic and offensive nature of the post. What makes you think that your freedom of speech should come at the expense of women feeling violated and insulted? I wonder if you would This list is one thing, but freedom of speech comes at the expense of anyone feeling however they like. The implication that someone's freedom of speech has somehow hurt someone else has been behind many (all?) attempts to restrict it. And not-free is not free. Free as in speech, not as in beer. -Chuckk state something like that before a crowd of 1000. I feel disgusted. Alexandre Haha. That made my day. Well done. Yeah, calling him a virgin, real original. On Oct 26, 2007, at 6:39 AM, hard off wrote: i went to the [pool] last week, and met this zexy girl, she was a real GEM - a totally rradical chick. We started to [swap] some glances, and not being one to do anything [unauthorized], i asked her, hey, do you want to [route]? ..she said sorry it's that [time] of the month and i said, hey, don't worry, i can part your red sea like [moses] ..she gave me a [stripnote], so i pulled down her panties, opened her [spigot], and then after a bit of a [delay] we got [hip~] to [hip~] and had a good ol' fashioned [bang] . after several minutes with our bodies in a tight [wrap~], she asked to [change] positions, so i took out my [vslider] from her [openpanel] and put her on the kitchen [table]. she was ready to [receive] my [pipe] again. so i thrust my [outlet] into her [inlet], stopping occasionally to [switch~] positions, [until] finally she let out a loud [noise~] and i shot my [loadbang]. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list v a d e // www.vade.info abstrakt.vade.info ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism is TERMINATE THREAD PLEASE
On 10/19/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ola, Honestly I wasn't even sure this sevy was really Yves, and for that matter I know nothing about Yves. As I said- the original statement was completely untrue; and the original poster hasn't responded to that fact. I honestly did not believe the subject was a problem on this list. wrong! i sent this after reading 'wettest dream' in a mail from 2 weeks ago, but anyway it was 2 years or more that this was going on, and was also a general feeling from pd convention ( seems work groups were only constituted of men ), too bad some people speaking here were not there. My mistake, I thought you were commenting about this list, not the pd convention. I see that post now, thank you for addressing my question. I don't see eye to eye with you on this. I'm not sure there's cause and effect between someone referring to Christiaan Huygens having wet dreams and there being a greater number of men than women on this list; and if there is, I suspect the demographic imbalance is more cause than effect. I could be wrong, but I'm not ready to join the crusade. On the other hand I'm more than ready to refrain from posting vulgarities myself. This is one of the most benign, tolerant free software forums I've found. You should see the #debian IRC channel. Your children should not! -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Will Netotchka Nezvanova please sit down...
I've seen flame wars last for many years. Rather, I've left forums and checked back years later to find it still happening. In one case one of the members had had some kind of legal action against him, apparently for trying to hunt down one of the others. I wonder at how people stay in (and seek out) situations that directly cause them suffering. A bad marriage isn't always short. I still believe in the internet. -Chuckk On 10/17/07, Kyle Klipowicz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netochka_Nezvanova For some reason I feel that this is appropriate. I hope our community can be a bit more mature...email lasts for n=n+1 years. ~Kyle -- - - - -- http://perhapsidid.wordpress.com http://myspace.com/kyleklipowicz ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] sound annotation
There's also video... -Chuckk On 10/17/07, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: WAV files can store notes, IIRC. Or at least Audacity can tie text to audio projects. I am sure other audio editors can too, but I am not sure there is currently a way to get that text in Pd. .hc On Oct 17, 2007, at 12:56 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: do you mean something like karaoke? marius. :) well more like audiofiles that can be tagged hopefully the notes will be stored in a db and then yes you could make a karaoke or a sound map. Praat looks good , thanks Luiz . I am reading of aubio library too. wonder if I can save the associated notes as separate text files, xml files maybe. thnx! A [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hello list, I am looking for a way to annotate sound, so to associate text information to sound files. Would it be a way in pd to do it? I would need to create time stamps in a sound file and associate keywords and notes to these nodes. I have searched the archives looking for this but perhaps has been called differently. I hope somebody can give me some clues where to find out more about this. thanks in advance, Alejandra ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list There is no way to peace, peace is the way. -A.J. Muste ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] sound annotation
Incidentally, you might find interesting the recent discussion on this list that we don't talk about anymore. I see a paper online, that looks like it's by you, about Pd and feminism. This is a hot topic here. -Chuckk On 10/17/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hello list, I am looking for a way to annotate sound, so to associate text information to sound files. Would it be a way in pd to do it? I would need to create time stamps in a sound file and associate keywords and notes to these nodes. I have searched the archives looking for this but perhaps has been called differently. I hope somebody can give me some clues where to find out more about this. thanks in advance, Alejandra ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism is TERMINATE THREAD PLEASE
I see you found the thread yourself, while I was running around trying to find work instead of staying updated. On 10/17/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and about feminist jokes. well you know feminism is in total discredit, is not fashionable anymore but the conditions for women are not equal and we face feminicide (this is extermination of women)in various areas of the world. So I don't mind being sensitive to anything that is related to this. I don't mind femin-, but any -ism tastes nasty to me. femin-ism is, lexicographically or whatever, one step from sex-ism. Equality is equality, and doesn't need another name. If a man is treated badly for his gender, does he have less right to justice because he is a member of a group less often treated badly? Maybe not in theory, but in many people's actions, yes. I believe in equal rights, but I don't believe that is accomplished by focusing on one group of people. Oddly- not speaking of institutions- men are far more often victims of violent crime than women, at least in my country (worldwide anyone know?). They say a lot that women are most often victimized by people they know, but leave out that this is still less often than men are victimized. Occupational fatality, drug addiction, and suicide are traditionally higher among men, and men have shorter lives worldwide as well. It is very well-known that, in university, social studies subjects are filled largely with women and technological and scientific subjects by men, and that the latter are more well-paid positions. BUT could this have something to do with the fact that men are traditionally judged by women according to their income? I would far rather study art and history than mathematics (in fact I did, I have a music degree and make $0 from it, and often feel ignored on lists like this for my lack of computer science knowledge). It's true I know almost nothing about society in any place but North America and Europe, but I'm really not trying to belittle the ill treatment of women; I know forced prostitution, for example, still occurs in many places, probably more often with women/girls. But I don't believe humans are anything but animals, and I think, all things considered, they have done pretty well over the last few hundred years. I didn't start this thread on sexism because I didn't have any particular complaint against this list although I can remember some situations outside the list: - once a pd friend said to me that still no women wrote an external, ah yes I would like to program a external I said. He said oh well Yves can do that you don't have to do that. I think many people would say the exact same thing to me. it would be better IMHO to discuss things and not avoid it but yes that would take time, to look into what we really mean by sexism and ask around why women (hey but not only women) don't participate in this spaces. I wasn't aware that women didn't participate. My few exchanges with Patrice convinced me she knows far more than I about computers and especially Pd, but for a year or two I had no idea what her sex was. As they say in regard to the internet, I still don't REALLY know. BTW, I did remove a number of your comments in replying; I don't mean to erase them, I just had no response. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism is TERMINATE THREAD PLEASE
On 10/18/07, Patrice Colet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, just a parenthesis to make things clear, :), Chuckk Hubbard a écrit : I wasn't aware that women didn't participate. My few exchanges with Patrice convinced me she knows far more than I about computers and especially Pd, but for a year or two I had no idea what her sex was. As they say in regard to the internet, I still don't REALLY know. BTW, I did remove a number of your comments in replying; I don't mean to erase them, I just had no response. -Chuckk I've figured out some years ago that in united states 'Patrice' is a name given to women, when I've heard about the existence of Patrice Zappa, the sister of Frank Zappa. Also this name come from the roman 'pater' which mean 'father', or in french 'Patricien'. It's a communauty of people living during ancient Rome. I've no idea why my united statesian homologous (sorry didn't find a better translation for 'homologue') is a woman. See, I never did inquire as to Patrice's gender... Sorry for the mistake! I wish Frank Zappa were alive and posting on this thread... -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism is TERMINATE THREAD PLEASE
On 10/18/07, Kevin McCoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Equality is equality, and doesn't need another name. If a man is treated badly for his gender, does he have less right to justice because he is a member of a group less often treated badly? Maybe not in theory, but in many people's actions, yes. I believe in equal rights, but I don't believe that is accomplished by focusing on one group of people. Chuckk, while I can sympathize with this, I would also suggest that the goal of many feminists is not equality in the limited sense of we get the same things as men. I hope that you don't take this as any kind of attack, because certainly this is not a reflection on you, but I am almost a little bored by that idea. After a certain point, doesn't the question become - how long will we keep chasing and catching up with men? I think it depends when and where you are. I worked for 6 years with almost all women coworkers (data entry), and the us vs. them mentality was strong and loud. I told a coworker once about a woman in Thailand who had severed her husband's genitals because she suspected he was cheating; her response: Well I guess he won't be cheatin no more. It was a hostile environment at times, and this was acknowledged and perfectly okay in some of my coworkers' minds because so many women at different times had been subjected to hostile environments by men. My point about equality is that we're not teams that need to even some score; maybe that's obvious to most of us, but I suspect we can't help sliding into that mentality sometimes. Else genital mutilation would be equally horrifying in all circumstances. In my opinion (as a man though), the more interesting varieties of feminism also encompass a celebration (or expansion) of femininity. Well said. That aspect I enjoy, but I still recoil from -isms. The feminine does not have to be a static, rigid entity either - see Donna Harraway's A Cyborg Manifesto, or feminist responses to Deleuze/Guattari's rhizome. Economic justice does require some attention to the idea of equality, but it must an equality that is aware of difference, never turning a blind eye to it.. otherwise, how to address inequality? By turning back to some abstract enlightenment ideal, or by attending to the differences? I think the best way is by understanding where it comes from (understanding is not the same as sympathizing, mind you). Something so universal throughout human history can't possibly be coincidence? Throughout most of history, survival was something people clung to desperately. The idea of sending women on a raid, or to hunt, or to sail across the ocean, was tantamount to slaughtering the next generation of infants. On the other hand, they could send all of the men except one and still have the same number of young born. Obviously this is no longer the case in some parts of the world today, and, even more obviously, most of the disadvantages/horrors brought upon women based on gender were/are completely irrational if inspired by this line of thought; but I still think it's the main factor that has caused society to do these things since forever. A woman can have one baby a year, a man 365, and for that baby to be born the woman must be kept from physical danger. Or whatever else our superstitious, slime-worshiping ancestors thought might hurt their societies. Anyway it remains to be seen whether humans can ever live peacefully for any length of time, and who knows if we'll last another 100 years. Here's hoping we all get the same rights as long as we do survive. Also I am not a computer science type either (as much as I often wish I was, my degree is in art, so we are related in the $0 market), but I've been on an interesting ride so far in large part because of pd and this list/community, for which I am very grateful. You can tell by my ridiculous newbie questions from last summer :) Also I found the mistake over Patrice really beautiful. km Heh, thanks. I'm male, by the way. You know, the public transit between Philly and Jersey is called Patco, and at first I thought I had found another Pd user and Zappa fan in Philly. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism is TERMINATE THREAD PLEASE
On 10/18/07, Yves Degoyon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ola, this is an excellent summing up of all that is wrong here... i didn't except to find soo much c.r.a.p. under the carpet .. you can call me a troll, but i don't think i'm so braindead [maybe tired]. You never did explain why you claimed to read phrases like wet dream and gang bang here every day. Does this kind of language permeate the list whenever I turn my back? As far as I can tell your statement was a downright lie, and it caused a pretty long thread full of OT arguments. ==troll i started this thread mainly because i wonder why some women feel the need to create their own structures and events, and why we go straight to separatism, separate women and men, . so why we should have different agendas? one of the reason is that women can't take this macho c.r.ap. anymore. I'm not big on macho crap either, and you obviously aren't. A lot of times when people form their own separate structures, it's as much shyness as intimidation. Has THIS happened due to the language on this list?? Anyway I don't interpret crass humor as macho. Is Southpark macho? Does it repel women? -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism is TERMINATE THREAD PLEASE
On 10/19/07, Charles Henry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/18/07, Chuckk Hubbard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/18/07, Yves Degoyon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ola, this is an excellent summing up of all that is wrong here... i didn't except to find soo much c.r.a.p. under the carpet .. you can call me a troll, but i don't think i'm so braindead [maybe tired]. You never did explain why you claimed to read phrases like wet dream and gang bang here every day. Does this kind of language permeate the list whenever I turn my back? As far as I can tell your statement was a downright lie, and it caused a pretty long thread full of OT arguments. ==troll OK, I think calling Yves an instigator (ie. trolling) is neither here nor there. It's just some dumb little label. You know that it doesn't add support for or against the point she made. Honestly I wasn't even sure this sevy was really Yves, and for that matter I know nothing about Yves. As I said- the original statement was completely untrue; and the original poster hasn't responded to that fact. I honestly did not believe the subject was a problem on this list. Don't get so caught up on facts--the perception and subjective experience of discrimination/bias is just as important. And subjective. Which is to say anyone can experience it. The grass is always greener on the other side. As a feeling it's perfectly valid, like all feelings. and your point is made more clear later on: i started this thread mainly because i wonder why some women feel the need to create their own structures and events, and why we go straight to separatism, separate women and men, . so why we should have different agendas? one of the reason is that women can't take this macho c.r.ap. anymore. which is plainly valid. Other people have added their experiences that give a broader picture of what's going on, and support this reason. and outside the art or programming worlds, there is still a great need for feminism, whether or not you want to call it that. I won't try to back this up, I don't think I could adequately explain. Well like I said, I'd rather try to understand the mechanism behind something than to judge those involved. IMO you can't have a broader picture and pronounce judgments at the same time. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] a general discussion about which software to learn: pd, max, both... or else?
On 10/16/07, Frank Barknecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo, Mathieu Bouchard hat gesagt: // Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Mon, 15 Oct 2007, Frank Barknecht wrote: I believe, the choice between a 1-dimensional language like SC and a 2-dimensional one like Pd is a state of mind thing. I do my fair share of 1-dim programming, Non-graphical languages are still 2-dimensional as they are written, because people use lines (rows) as logical units of code. The compiler makes a largely 1-dimensional interpretation of it, but this is not how people write and read code. Similarly, Pd almost completely ignores the actual position of the objects (except [inlet] and [outlet]) when interpreting a patch. In usual text based languages like C, Lisp, Forth, Python, Java, ... the second dimension is largely irrelevant, because every identifier only is concerned with what's left or right of it, not what's on top From the point of view of the compiler, perhaps, but I think most programmers are very concerned with vertical arrangement, in the sense of how they think, no? A .c file with line breaks removed looks like gibberish to a human, though it may compile fine. In either text-based or dataflow languages, actual program flow can vary, whatever the order of elements, so methinks there is always some kind of temporal and conditional thought going on. If time is another dimension, then perhaps the debate is 2 vs. 3 dimensions? -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] a general discussion about which software to learn: pd, max, both... or else?
Hi. The documentation for Pd says that it started from the desire to make something similar to Max BUT with a facility for user-customizable scoring, what is now Pd's data structure system. IMO this is the single most useful aspect of Pd. The only other software I know of that would allow similar functioning would be toolkits (like the one used for Pd) or graphics libraries for adding into programming languages. I guess Java is another possibility. AFAIK Max still doesn't have anything like Pd's data structures (there is something in the documentation about data structures but it don't work the same). I personally never spent much time with Max simply because I like to share my programs with non-programmers. I'm also very fond of FOSS for all the usual reasons. I also like to use Linux; I have Windows XP and Linux running on my laptop, and Mac OSX on my wife's, so even if I wanted to put Max on my Windows system I'd have to buy it twice to use it on both comps. I already have Pd on all 3 OS's, and if I work on a university computer it only takes a few minutes to put Pd on it, and I can work on the same patches. At one point I had Pd installers for several OS's on my flash drive, so I didn't even need net access to use it on any computer I came across. Maybe these aren't reasons for you, but they're my experience. In general terms, I'd say one un-trumpable advantage of Pd is that, if there are any features Max might have that Pd doesn't, they can be added to Pd by anyone who knows how (or wants to learn). I don't know if Max has any video control or not, but if you haven't already checked out Pd's GEM, you can easily spend days exploring it without eating. If you are interested in hardcore digital audio control, I'd also suggest Csound and SuperCollider (PsyCollider on Windows). I know Csound better than Pd at this point, but I try to balance myself between those two. There is also something called Nyquist that I haven't explored. Blue is a very useful free front-end for Csound, written in Java and so cross-platform. There's also a Pd object called csoundapi~ that comes with Csound, allowing one to use the data structures of Pd with the huge library of opcodes of Csound. The guy who created it is very open to requests and questions, not surprisingly. The GIMP is a great free almost-Photoshop. I believe there is documentation somewhere actually delineating what it doesn't have that PS does, I don't think it's much. Blender is a free 3d-modeling app with a crazy, efficient interface. I think it's cool, but I'm no expert. -Chuckk On 10/14/07, David Schaffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everybody, I'm a stage/audiovisual technician willing to make a move into digital arts. I've been using pd for quite some time know and I was wondering if it would be useful for me to learn Max: according to you guys, which of the two programs seems to be most widely used, most popular, most promising in terms of future devellopements? Is it worth to be good in both or to become excellent (whatever that means...) in one of them? Is there another platform out there that would be worth giving a look (outside of the established stuff like pro tools, final cut, photoshop etc...) Thank you for your answers. D.S ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] about pd
How about mead? I've always wanted to try it, but it must be pretty nasty if no one makes it anymore. I'm in Romania now, and the tsuica is amazing. It sets a fire in the esophagus, but the receptors that are spared still detect a faint scent/taste of plum. I've been a big fan of Newcastle, but alas it doesn't exist here. Strangely, Corona is easy to come by. -Chuckk On 10/12/07, Andy Farnell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wine. Not now because I don't have the space.. but I've always been fascinated by wine-making and the chemistry of it all. As a kid we had a country house with lots of space and land and always rows of demijohn bottles bubbling away. Amazing what you can get to brew, almost any fruits or sugary plant will work, some I remember are Nettle - the nasty stingy things make good wine. Blackberry Strawberry - really yummy Elderberry and elderflower - subtle and dry Cannabis - yep, you can make dope wine Plum - very sweet wine Sloe - sloe gin from really bitter fruits Gooseberry - the green pimply ones Rose Hip - a very English wine Tea - never thought it had any sugar but folks make tea wine Mead - wine made from honey is amazing I believe you can use grapes too! Like the sound of Hans harmfully strong chocolate stout, dark Trappist ales and stouts are my kind of beer, I had a few good ones in Germany. a. On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 14:20:31 -0500 Charles Henry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since we're still talking about beers, I want to ask if there's any pd'ers out there who homebrew? It is a favorite hobby of mine, though I am not able to make a batch very often. I have on a couple occaisions made an incredibly strong ale, not fit for human consumption, including one stout that is leftover from spring. Chuck ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Use the source ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] about pd
Amen. Some friends did a song about PBR a while back. It sounds really good after a couple of pint cans: http://www.myspace.com/sixpackcreek -Chuckk On 10/12/07, Kevin McCoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 10 BEEP 20 PRINT PABST! BLUE! RIBBON! 30 GOTO 10 km On 10/10/07, Charles Henry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As loing as it is not the crap beer we make in America! ;) I know what you mean... I could go for a nice Stella Artois or a Peroni... or a dozen Harboes... ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://pocketkm.blogspot.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism is BORING
On 10/11/07, marius schebella [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: jared wrote: if its so fucking bad why would you want to visit? Some people have the hope, the true situation would not be so depressing. I think Europeans and Americans see American as bad in an abstract sense, in the sense of what it does to people who aren't there. All the more reason to go there. It's bad in the abstract, but pretty useful in the short term. .but who is worse: the Idiot, or the guy who follows the idiot? except for romania, there are not so many countries in the world, who follow the US at the moment. Ouch! I just moved to Romania from the US... But I don't think the question is what the government of a country endorses, it's a question of the social attitude and the - all together now - opportunity. I suspect most non-Americans who go to the US do so hoping to benefit themselves, more than to enjoy the culture of the average citizens. I didn't vote for Bush...neither did half of the American voters...that's over 150 million United States citizens who didn't vote for Bush I am not sure, how you calculate this. because in 2000 50mio people voted for bush. which means 250mio citizens (including children and non-voters) did not. 51mio voters voted actively against bush, 249 mio citizens did not... (only 101mio people actively voted.) for years later (due to his successful policy...), 62mio voted for bush. marius. Yes, alas, there may be 300 million citizens, but far less eligible voters, and even less active voters. But perhaps the number who didn't vote present an even worse picture of American culture than the number who voted for Bush. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism is TERMINATE THREAD PLEASE
Seems to me it's been a pretty civil discussion. Way off-topic, definitely, but not terribly aggressive. I don't understand telling people not to talk about something. Whether or not we are all adults, we are all capable of deciding for ourselves what we want to say and read. -Chuckk On 10/11/07, Derek Holzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As Roman already so eloquently suggested EVERYONE PLEASE STOP THIS NOW. You're all adults enough that no one needs to get the last word in. I hope. Thanks, derek -- derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista ---Oblique Strategy # 164: Twist the spine -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism
On 10/10/07, Mathieu Bouchard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 10 Oct 2007, Chris McCormick wrote: whilst there is no similar widespread cliche for western invaders in our culture is testament to this fact. I believe that colonialism and imperialism are widespread words, concepts and clichés, that are loaded by several centuries of history. Absolutely. I'm not sure which culture is our culture, but in mine I have read and heard more bad about the white invaders than any others, especially Mongolians. The fact that Europeans were ever enslaved by Africans is almost completely gone from history books or general knowledge. The notion that Europeans savagely trampled a world full of peaceful, altruistic people throughout history seems to be pretty widespread. It also seems to me that hacker culture uses lots of terms tongue-in-cheek, and that a reference to Mongolian hordes may even be, in some folks' minds, a jab at the Westerners who coined the term. Americans today make ironic references to the Axis of Evil and the war on terror and homeland security all the time. It doesn't mean they buy it, even if the media makes it seem that way. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism
On 10/10/07, Mathieu Bouchard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 10 Oct 2007, Chuckk Hubbard wrote: I'm not sure which culture is our culture, In this context, it would be all the west-european, canadian, australian, nz, usa, ... mostly that. That sounds more like hundreds of cultures, about which one person couldn't speak authoritatively without doing lots of traveling first. Americans today make ironic references to the Axis of Evil and the war on terror and homeland security all the time. It doesn't mean they buy it, even if the media makes it seem that way. Yeah but why do they still vote for one of the two big parties? Because they don't believe anyone else will win. Also, though they don't necessarily buy the Axis of Evil stuff, they do buy lots of other things, including shoes made in Mexico and everything else made in China, and perhaps it is true that most don't want to think too hard about certain things. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] about sexism
On 10/7/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ola, i'm sorry to be boring on this list, but here i read everyday terms as : 'wet dream', 'gang bang' , .. and i understand why some girls stay away from this list Understandable, but that's not sexism. And I have heard these terms from the mouths of women many, many times. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] representning classes and selectors in the wiki
Hi. I haven't been too active with Pd lately, but I just got a P5 glove and a new idea, so back I come. I'm very happy to see this discussion. All I have to add is that, if there is a good search engine, I'll love it. Personally, when I'm looking for a particular external, or to find an external for a particular purpose, I don't bother wading through categories. Perhaps a search that is able to filter for .dll, .c, UNIX executables, etc.? Or to search for libraries that contain a particular object. I'm burned on Google, it gives me too much. I wonder if that might be improved if, in tandem with creating new references, some of the old ones would be taken offline, or even just tagged with links to more recent resources. -Chuckk On 9/13/07, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Marius and I had a powwow about the pdpedia structure of the pages, and I think we are in agreement with this proposal. Here's the outline: http://pdpedia.at.or.at/test/index.php/Main_Page - Basically, it's as much like wikipedia as possible. For class/ object names, the canonical page for each object would be the 'mylibrary/myobject' format, then there would also be a 'myobject' page, which would be a redirect or a disambiguation page, depending on the circumstance. - Everything else would go into the same room namespace, like wikipedia. Then for things that need disambiguation, there would be things tacked on, like wikipedia, like 'float (selector)'. - about caps, I figured out how to make mediawiki keep things all lowercase. The problem is that wikipedia doesn't use mediawiki that way, so it might have strange problems. We'll see... - like roman said, I think that all things Pd are welcome in the pdpedia. Libraries that are not in Pd-extended should follow the same naming scheme, i.e. mylibrary/myobject. .hc On Sep 12, 2007, at 11:17 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: marius schebella wrote: how stable is the library structure? if it is stable over several years, then it could be arbitrary. but some objects jump around. from zexy to iem (mtx?), from iemlib1 to iemlib (don't know if that is really the case...) from iemlib to puredata core (gui)... from everywhere to flatspace. wow: zexy had the matrix objects for several years (they first appeared therein in 2001; and they vanished by 2005) iemmatrix has the matrix objects for several years too (2005-today) iemlib consists of 3 binary libraries (iemlib1, iemlib2, iem_t3) and a collection of abstractions; this has not changed since i know this library (which is quite some time) i don't know which object has moved from the sub-package iemlib1 to the meta-package iemlib. i thought this would be impossible, given the structure of the iemlib. let us not be troubled by repackaging of objects. all in all, if the system cannot handle renames, we should dump it immediately but then, wikipedia does handle renames, e.g.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puredata http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_Data why not keep a flat structure: because we could at the same time put library and object information into the same database? .../pdp = doc on the pdp lib .../pdp/pdp_qt = doc on a certain object. the title of the page does not represent the real name of the object anyway. wiki does not support titles/pages starting with lowercase letters. that means the real object name will be shown at some place inside the page content. therefore we can call the page counter (markex) which will show up as: http://pdpedia.at.or.at/test/index.php/Counter_%28markex%29 or counter.maxlib. or maxlib.counter. what exactly is the difference between maxlib.counter and maxlib/ counter? can mediawiki handle both? only information. therefor if structure helps the understanding like (math/plus) then structure is good. but as I said before structure for categories is not really possible, so better no structure... my only argument is: the grouping structure of objects is the one the original author has made explicit by grouping them together in a library. it is not related to structure, but to the possibilities for searching right and displaying objects and libraries. and to page design. well, even though in times of phishing i daresay that few people will actually look at the link. and the page need not reflect the link anyhow. (i guess that the page /maxlib/counter will display counter as title) the important thing is to have a good search engine! that was the reason why I did not want to go for the wiki at first. but the wiki has more advantages on other points. hmm, the wiki search engine does a full text search and you can specify multiword queries. this should pretty much do... (at least i got quite used to getting multiple hits when i google :-)) what else do you want to find?
Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism
On 10/8/07, IOhannes m zmoelnig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thomas Mayer wrote: Understandable, but that's not sexism. And I have heard these terms from the mouths of women many, many times. how does the fact that a group of people uses certain phrases prove that these phrases are not symptoms (or means) of oppression of this very group? Did I say anything about proving something? The fact that using those two particular phrases is not sexism is evident by the meanings of the phrases and the definition of sexism. Only one of the phrases mentioned makes any differentiation between the sexes, and it describes a solitary act irrelevant to any relationship between the sexes. If there is sexism on this mailing list, it isn't evidenced by the presence of those two phrases. Pointing out that many women use those phrases was a response to the supposition that those phrases explain the absence of women from this mailing list. It was not intended to support the statement that the use of these phrases is not sexism; that much should be self-evident. I would not try to prove something using anecdotal observations. I'm surprised anyone would think there's sexism on this list. I don't even know what sex most of the posters are. I've never seen the subject of sex or gender come up before. -Chuckk Wet dream can also relate to the dreams of water on Dune by Paul Atreides and gang bang can mean [t b b b b b b] indeed this is possible. these phrases could also be not english at all and mean something like bubo bubo and forgive. mfg.asdr IOhannes ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism
Addendum - a quick Gmail search turned up one use of gang bang which was quoted in response a few times; it was in the thread [Pd] pd-competition?. I'm not exactly sure what it was referring to. I suspect it was a play on the word 'bang'. Another quick Gmail search turned up one use of wet dream, but now that I look that was actually in the Nosi-discussion list. It was, coincidentally, a comment made by a woman, one of the most active people in NOSI. All I can guess is that this thread was started as a troll, or perhaps accidentally posted to the wrong list. -Chuckk On 10/8/07, IOhannes m zmoelnig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thomas Mayer wrote: Understandable, but that's not sexism. And I have heard these terms from the mouths of women many, many times. how does the fact that a group of people uses certain phrases prove that these phrases are not symptoms (or means) of oppression of this very group? Wet dream can also relate to the dreams of water on Dune by Paul Atreides and gang bang can mean [t b b b b b b] indeed this is possible. these phrases could also be not english at all and mean something like bubo bubo and forgive. mfg.asdr IOhannes ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] about sexism
On 10/8/07, Yves Degoyon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ola, dont feed the braindead trolls! i think you should at least sign your very uninteresting remarks, and not with an internet nickname like 'carmen', when it's a boy who is writing This is absolutely trollspeak. ( if i don't get confused ) sevy ps: btw, we are here in 'Le Hangar' again, for a workshop on FLOSS sound and it's a mixed audience ( like 70-30 % ), so i don't see why it doesn't reflect on the lists.. How do you know it doesn't reflect on this list? And more importantly, who cares if it does? I already pointed out that one of the terms you claimed to see here every day has not been typed once since I've been subscribed, which is a few years. You are trolling. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [Pd] puredata.info download suggestion
I just downloaded 8 files, Martin Peach's OSC dll's, source files, and pd patches. It took a really long time. I can't right click and select save link, because I save an html file. If I click on the link, I get another page with another link that I can now click on and select save link; but it comes up without the title of the file, and I copy the name of each file from the name of the html page. I didn't have much problem with setups like this before, but now I'm on a slower and less reliable internet connection (in Bucharest). If I could save all the files from one page, I could set them all downloading and do stuff in the meantime, but as is I have to wait for each one to load to set up the next one. Know what I mean? Is this setup the default for the site, or were these files just uploaded that way as a fluke? -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [Pd] puredata.info download suggestion
Thanks Martin. Serves me right for not paying attention. I have a pretty shallow relationship with OSC, I only go looking for it when I need something from it. -Chuckk On 10/8/07, Martin Peach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chuckk Hubbard wrote: I just downloaded 8 files, Martin Peach's OSC dll's, source files, and pd patches. It took a really long time. I can't right click and select save link, because I save an html file. If I click on the link, I get another page with another link that I can now click on and select save link; but it comes up without the title of the file, and I copy the name of each file from the name of the html page. I didn't have much problem with setups like this before, but now I'm on a slower and less reliable internet connection (in Bucharest). If I could save all the files from one page, I could set them all downloading and do stuff in the meantime, but as is I have to wait for each one to load to set up the next one. Know what I mean? Is this setup the default for the site, or were these files just uploaded that way as a fluke? I suppose I could have uploaded a zip file with everything in it, but I don't really maintain that any more since I have all the stuff in cvs now. The OSC stuff on pd-info is out of date. Maybe I should delete it all just so people don't get the wrong stuff... If you want the compiled dlls you can get one of the autobuilds for windows from http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/ but I see that the 040 version is missing recently. The latest is http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2007-09-20/Pd-0.40.3-extended-20070920-windowsxp-i386.exe Look in pd/extra/mrpeach, and find the help files in pd/doc/5.reference/mrpeach. Martin -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [Pd] Building OSCx on 64-bit Debian
On 9/9/07, Martin Peach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chuckk Hubbard wrote: On 9/8/07, *Ken Restivo* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, Sep 08, 2007 at 06:48:52PM -0400, Chuckk Hubbard wrote: Hi. I acquired a p5 glove, and the Pd interface I found for it relies on OSCx. I've been trying to build it, having added -fPIC to it, but I get this: make[1]: Entering directory `/home/chuckk/Glove/pd/externals/OSCx/src' cc -Wl,-export_dynamic -shared -o sendOSC.pd_linux sendOSC.o htmsocket.o OSC-system-dependent.o -L../../../pd/bin -lpd -lc -lm ../libOSC/libOSC.a /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lpd collect2: ld returned 1 exit status make[1]: *** [sendOSC.pd_linux] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/chuckk/Glove/pd/externals/OSCx/src' make: *** [all] Error 2 I added several paths to the INCLUDES line in src/Makefile, as the guy suggested, with the path to a Pd src folder, but still it can't find this -lpd. I read man ld and tried searching for any kind of *libpd*, * pd.a*, or *pd.so* on my entire hard drive, and none of them exist. Should I replace this -lpd with something else? I tried removing it, and it built a faulty set of OSCx objects that don't work. The linker uses -L not -I to determine its paths. Try -L/usr/wherever/pd/libs/are/located ? Hi Ken, thanks for the suggestion. It doesn't seem to make a difference. There are a series of -L flags and a series of -I flags, so I'm guessing whoever wrote it knew the difference. But I tried both. I also tried removing the -lpd flag, since, again, there is no file on my system that would satisfy it, and it built dumpOSC.pd_linux, sendOSC.pd_linux, and OSCroute.pd_linux, but Pd cannot create a dumpOSC object, while it does create the other two... So it _can_ build sendOSC.pd_linux when you remove the -lpd flag? That makes sense because there is no need for the pd library if you're building a dynamic shared library. The dumpOSC problem may relate to it's use of type-punning that assumes 32 bit floats and ints. I changed unpackOSC to use an int/float union instead. See http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=1788587group_id=55736atid=478070 Actually, it built okay; I was just trying to add a dumpOSC object with no argument. With an argument it works... -Chuckk ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [Pd] Building OSCx on 64-bit Debian
On 9/8/07, Ken Restivo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, Sep 08, 2007 at 06:48:52PM -0400, Chuckk Hubbard wrote: Hi. I acquired a p5 glove, and the Pd interface I found for it relies on OSCx. I've been trying to build it, having added -fPIC to it, but I get this: make[1]: Entering directory `/home/chuckk/Glove/pd/externals/OSCx/src' cc -Wl,-export_dynamic -shared -o sendOSC.pd_linux sendOSC.o htmsocket.o OSC-system-dependent.o -L../../../pd/bin -lpd -lc -lm ../libOSC/libOSC.a /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lpd collect2: ld returned 1 exit status make[1]: *** [sendOSC.pd_linux] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/chuckk/Glove/pd/externals/OSCx/src' make: *** [all] Error 2 I added several paths to the INCLUDES line in src/Makefile, as the guy suggested, with the path to a Pd src folder, but still it can't find this -lpd. I read man ld and tried searching for any kind of *libpd*, *pd.a*, or *pd.so* on my entire hard drive, and none of them exist. Should I replace this -lpd with something else? I tried removing it, and it built a faulty set of OSCx objects that don't work. The linker uses -L not -I to determine its paths. Try -L/usr/wherever/pd/libs/are/located ? Hi Ken, thanks for the suggestion. It doesn't seem to make a difference. There are a series of -L flags and a series of -I flags, so I'm guessing whoever wrote it knew the difference. But I tried both. I also tried removing the -lpd flag, since, again, there is no file on my system that would satisfy it, and it built dumpOSC.pd_linux, sendOSC.pd_linux, and OSCroute.pd_linux, but Pd cannot create a dumpOSC object, while it does create the other two... -Chuckk - -ken -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFG40Iwe8HF+6xeOIcRAod2AKDtPy6HN+RA7YwsdbkK/AMyEjGErgCgtRyu pEPOATDtCGx6A31QzKXIGPY= =kE7A -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [Pd] Building OSCx on 64-bit Debian
Hi. I acquired a p5 glove, and the Pd interface I found for it relies on OSCx. I've been trying to build it, having added -fPIC to it, but I get this: make[1]: Entering directory `/home/chuckk/Glove/pd/externals/OSCx/src' cc -Wl,-export_dynamic -shared -o sendOSC.pd_linux sendOSC.o htmsocket.o OSC-system-dependent.o -L../../../pd/bin -lpd -lc -lm ../libOSC/libOSC.a /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lpd collect2: ld returned 1 exit status make[1]: *** [sendOSC.pd_linux] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/chuckk/Glove/pd/externals/OSCx/src' make: *** [all] Error 2 I added several paths to the INCLUDES line in src/Makefile, as the guy suggested, with the path to a Pd src folder, but still it can't find this -lpd. I read man ld and tried searching for any kind of *libpd*, *pd.a*, or *pd.so* on my entire hard drive, and none of them exist. Should I replace this -lpd with something else? I tried removing it, and it built a faulty set of OSCx objects that don't work. Thanks. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Re-targeting sends.
Sweet! I don't remember when you put that in either, I never noticed before. Seems it needs the symbol selector in front of the message for the send name, btw. -Chuckk On 8/18/07, Miller Puckette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't remember when I put it in, but send with no arguments now sprouts a second inlet to set the receiver. cheers Miller On Sat, Aug 18, 2007 at 11:37:10PM -0400, marius schebella wrote: you are right. although I heard some talking about new features with pd 0.40 or 0.41??? frank barknecht also posted a workaround for variable length lists some days ago. http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/attachments/20070816/a1d74535/attachment.txt marius. Robert Scott wrote: On Sunday 19 August 2007 02:52, marius schebella wrote: you can use a message and stat with semicolon followed by the location you want to send to: [;receiver1 123( or with variables: [receiver1 123( [;$1 $2( that will send 123 to receiver1. marius. I'd never thought to use a $ as the object selector there - maybe I should go to bed earlier - thankyou marius. One issue though. I'd like to be able to send arbitrary length lists down this send, and the positional parameters wouldn't seem to be able to do this. robert. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [Pd] toxy, cyclone on 64-bit
I'd be up for helping. I don't know if I could fit the entire project into my schedule in the next few months. I do have a 64-bit machine, but I wrecked my hard drive and am using a smaller one, not large enough to dual-boot, so I actually only have 64-bit Linux at the moment. -Chuckk On 8/5/07, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It would be nice to put out a beta 64-bit build of Pd-extended. Are you up for it? .hc On Aug 5, 2007, at 7:18 PM, Chuckk Hubbard wrote: So I got some help from Mathieu and Patko on this, and I wanted to share it in case someone else (or myself in a couple months, probably) needs to know. Add -fPIC to the end of the line defining CFLAGS in Makefile.common ; this is necessary on non-x86 machines. Did I get that right? Thanks Patko and Mathieu! -Chuckk On 8/5/07, Chuckk Hubbard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm looking at the source, wondering if I can adapt it for 64-bit. Any advice welcome. My email to Krzysztof at [EMAIL PROTECTED] came back undeliverable... did he leave the university? -Chuckk On 8/3/07, Chuckk Hubbard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know if these libraries will compile on 64-bit Linux? If so... how do I compile them? Thanks! -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list Computer science is no more related to the computer than astronomy is related to the telescope. -Edsger Dykstra -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [Pd] toxy, cyclone on 64-bit
Okay, I'm started on this. I'm probably going to pass out soon, but when I get a chance I'll update the lists of Debian packages. I know for one thing that testing now has jack 0.103.something. I'll try to go through it tomorrow. -Chuckk On 8/6/07, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Excellent! I think the best place to start would be to get Pd-0.40.3-extended building, which mostly supports 64-bit. I think 0.41fully supports it, but there isn't Pd-0.41-extended yet. The easiest way to get the whole sources is using rsync: http://puredata.org/docs/developer/GettingPdSource Just try making a build, then post the transcript to pd-dev when you have troubles. Here's the instructions, its a wiki, feel free to improve the page: http://puredata.org/docs/developer/Debian .hc On Aug 6, 2007, at 7:53 PM, Chuckk Hubbard wrote: I'd be up for helping. I don't know if I could fit the entire project into my schedule in the next few months. I do have a 64-bit machine, but I wrecked my hard drive and am using a smaller one, not large enough to dual-boot, so I actually only have 64-bit Linux at the moment. -Chuckk On 8/5/07, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It would be nice to put out a beta 64-bit build of Pd-extended. Are you up for it? .hc On Aug 5, 2007, at 7:18 PM, Chuckk Hubbard wrote: So I got some help from Mathieu and Patko on this, and I wanted to share it in case someone else (or myself in a couple months, probably) needs to know. Add -fPIC to the end of the line defining CFLAGS in Makefile.common ; this is necessary on non-x86 machines. Did I get that right? Thanks Patko and Mathieu! -Chuckk On 8/5/07, Chuckk Hubbard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm looking at the source, wondering if I can adapt it for 64-bit. Any advice welcome. My email to Krzysztof at [EMAIL PROTECTED] came back undeliverable... did he leave the university? -Chuckk On 8/3/07, Chuckk Hubbard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know if these libraries will compile on 64-bit Linux? If so... how do I compile them? Thanks! -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list Computer science is no more related to the computer than astronomy is related to the telescope. -Edsger Dykstra -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com Mistrust authority - promote decentralization. - the hacker ethic -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [Pd] toxy, cyclone on 64-bit
I'm looking at the source, wondering if I can adapt it for 64-bit. Any advice welcome. My email to Krzysztof at [EMAIL PROTECTED] came back undeliverable... did he leave the university? -Chuckk On 8/3/07, Chuckk Hubbard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know if these libraries will compile on 64-bit Linux? If so... how do I compile them? Thanks! -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [Pd] toxy, cyclone on 64-bit
So I got some help from Mathieu and Patko on this, and I wanted to share it in case someone else (or myself in a couple months, probably) needs to know. Add -fPIC to the end of the line defining CFLAGS in Makefile.common; this is necessary on non-x86 machines. Did I get that right? Thanks Patko and Mathieu! -Chuckk On 8/5/07, Chuckk Hubbard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm looking at the source, wondering if I can adapt it for 64-bit. Any advice welcome. My email to Krzysztof at [EMAIL PROTECTED] came back undeliverable... did he leave the university? -Chuckk On 8/3/07, Chuckk Hubbard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know if these libraries will compile on 64-bit Linux? If so... how do I compile them? Thanks! -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [Pd] openpanel vs. relative path - feature request?
Hi. Is there/could there be a way to change [openpanel] output to relative pathname? Perhaps even an object from another library that would search for current directory in its input and create relative paths accordingly. I think I could write such an object for Linux, not sure about other OS's. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [Pd] toxy, cyclone on 64-bit
Does anyone know if these libraries will compile on 64-bit Linux? If so... how do I compile them? Thanks! -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Audio Analasys
lol I wish it were $f6/1 (hex dollars of course) On 7/23/07, Derek Holzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is the thread of cryptic responses, I see ;-) So it's: [expr 6/$f1] d. IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: * [expr 6/f$1] I always do this typo, ;) Sorry, but ? Did I put one too many zeros or something? 's|f\$|$f|g' -- derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista ---Oblique Strategy # 91: Infinitesimal gradations ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Audio Analasys
Check out the 3.Audio : I patches in Pd Help. That's I as in starting at A. The I section is frequency analysis. -Chuckk On 7/22/07, Richard Powell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi again, Most of my ideas with pD revolve around different visuals that react in some way to sound. I seem to be progressing fine with the visuals but I've always been a visual person rather than a musician. As such my knowledge of digital audio is poor. I wonder if anyone could point me in the direction of any good patches that I might be able to hack up, specialist objects, tutorials etc. Ideally I'd like to be able to analyze music played into my microphone input in real time for as many different things as possible. I'm thinking Beat, tempo, pitch, etc. Basically as many different numbers as i can possibly get to then use to affect visuals in some way. Thanks in advance. Richard ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] PD workshop, Budapest
Too bad, I will be moving to Romania soon, and I could make the trip, but not before August. Any Pd people in Romania? I'll be in Bucharest at first, perhaps to relocate. I married a Romanian woman who came to the US on a Fulbright scholarship, and one of the agreements she made by accepting the sholarship was to spend 2 years in Romania after school, and marrying a US citizen has no effect on that. I understand there are very few resources for computer music in Romania. -Chuckk On 7/22/07, stc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, i will make a PD workshop in Budapest, Hungary. Details are here: http://www.kitchenbudapest.hu/en/node/232 come and see if you are around bp at the middle of august.. ps. the recursive Gem patches posted a few days ago are brilliant... good to see that things are happening around with Gem... ___ PD-announce mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] changing volume depending on frequency
Howdy, Andy. Another interesting effect (don't remember what they call it) is that at certain high frequencies, subjects tend to report that the frequency changes as the volume changes, when in reality the volume is all that changes. Hmm, I bet there was a way to say that with half as many words... But regardless, I would personally never touch this phenomenon in my own experiments, it's just too slippery. -Chuckk On 7/14/07, Andy Farnell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One thing you might like to look at is the Fletcher Munsen curve. There isn't a hard mathematical relationship between perceived amplitude (loudness) and frequency, it's more of a biological and psychoacoustic effect, and somewhat subjective between listeners. http://ccrma.stanford.edu/CCRMA/Courses/SummerWorkshops/96/Psychoacoustics/labs/loudness/ The Pd solution to this is to use lookup tables to scale amplitude, a bit less fiddly than setting up a piecewise function. On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:21:37 +0200 Marko Timlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am working on a patch where I want to change the volume of the sound depending of the frequency it´s played at. as we hear frequency logarithimically my idea is: the higher the pitch the more silent the volume and the lower the pitch the higher the volume. and all that according to the logarithmic fashion in which the human auditory system processes frequencies, as we do not perceive them with equal sensitivity. any ideas??? thanks, m. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Use the source ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] posting
You've just posted to the list! Welcome. -Chuckk On 6/22/07, toby zardoz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd like to use the e-mail I'm using here to post to the list and was advised in the list subscriber acceptance e-mail to e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] thanks -- Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your free account todayhttp://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail/winter07.html . ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] match the closest number
Here's a possibility. Not very elegant, but it works. Replace the list and the numberboxes with whatever input and output you need and it ought to work, if the differences are smaller than 10. -Chuckk On 6/18/07, danja [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hello there, i have a [list] of numbers and i'd like to search through it for the value closest to the search subject. so to say, if i have '22 31 47 86' in my list and i match it with '45' the answer would be '47' (closest in the list). this rather useful function (fuzzy integer search?) must have been written by someone already, it's just that i can't find it :) i wouldn't ask if i could patch it myself, but i know how it might work: all integers from the list are compared to the reference (subject) number, and the integer in subtraction closest to '0' would be the hit... you know what i mean? any advice is very much appreciated! p.s. apologies for my ignorance, i'm just starting here... -- danja http://k0a1a.net ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com #N canvas 461 157 563 508 12; #X obj 77 88 list; #X obj 77 184 - 45; #X msg 52 32 22 31 47 86; #X obj 93 353 f; #X obj 77 232 abs; #X obj 77 273 moses 10; #X obj 77 208 t f f; #X obj 28 268 f; #X obj 74 384 f; #X obj 77 297 bang; #X obj 74 412 + 45; #X floatatom 432 67 5 0 0 0 - - -; #X obj 77 124 list split 1; #X floatatom 297 410 5 0 0 0 - - -; #X msg 168 235 10; #X obj 52 61 t b l b; #X text 412 46 Comparator; #X text 51 10 List; #X text 290 386 Closest; #X connect 0 0 12 0; #X connect 1 0 6 0; #X connect 2 0 15 0; #X connect 3 0 8 1; #X connect 4 0 5 0; #X connect 5 0 7 0; #X connect 5 0 9 0; #X connect 6 0 4 0; #X connect 6 1 3 1; #X connect 7 0 5 1; #X connect 8 0 10 0; #X connect 9 0 3 0; #X connect 10 0 13 0; #X connect 11 0 10 1; #X connect 11 0 1 1; #X connect 12 0 1 0; #X connect 12 1 0 0; #X connect 14 0 5 1; #X connect 15 0 8 0; #X connect 15 1 0 0; #X connect 15 2 14 0; ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] HRTF
On 3/28/07, Chris McCormick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Mar 27, 2007 at 08:37:46PM -0400, Chuckk Hubbard wrote: Was PD previously under GPL? No. Frank explained to me that Pd-extended is under GPL. I have to go back and revise the package I created, if only to add the Berkley license info. I'm pretty sure I didn't actually use the executable that was with Pd-extended. So if version 0.5 is available under BSD license, and the author later decides to go GPL, could they replace vs 0.5 on sourceforge with an exact copy except with a different license.txt? And if someone then downloaded that same software, aware that it was BSD, and violated GPL thinking it was still BSD... A moot point anyway. I swear I looked once and saw GPL for Pd, but I guess it was Pd-extended. Suffice to say Csound is LGPL and AFAIK completely open. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] HRTF
On 3/28/07, Chris McCormick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Mar 27, 2007 at 10:50:11PM +0200, Frank Barknecht wrote: You can embed Pd into a proprietary software and apart from telling, that you did so, you have no further obligations (that's why Max can use parts of Pd inside). With Csound this is not allowed I must disagree with this; I think that is allowed with Csound, actually. Under the terms of the LGPL you are allowed to link LGPL code into a proprietary product, and you don't have to show the source to your proprietary product. The difference is that if you modify the Someone was just saying this recently on the Csound list. I actually thought it would be useful knowledge, regarding using Csound's HRTF implementation in a video game. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Real-time frequency filtering and analysis
Airhorns. -Chuckk On 3/28/07, Charles Henry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: filtering in general may not be the best approach because some of your partials from one xylophone note will overlap with other note's partials. They are inharmonic complex tones, which are not so easy to predict you'll probably have to measure the frequencies of each note of your xylophone to know exactly what the spectrum is like. In terms of averaging like Jamie suggested... suppose you want to compute the expectation of the power spectral density. You would take the fft of the auto-covariance of your recieved signal, divided by the number of blocks in your time frame. (dividing by a number of blocks will not in general be necessary, when all you need to do is find a peak, with pique~ as before) This will give you a very clear/accurate peak, without much jitter/noise to clean up. Chuck ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] HRTF
Pd people continue to ignore Csound, and Csound people continue to ignore Pd, despite the great power of combining them. I can't help feeling like this is a symptom of being more interested in some intellectual problem than in using all of the available tools to make music. Not seeing the forest for the trees, in a way. -Chuckk On 3/20/07, Chuckk Hubbard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting idea. Only thing I could suggest would be to use Csound with Pd's csoundapi~ object. You could totally set up an interface for setting angles and stuff with GEM, then relay the HRTF info to Csound. It would be pretty awesome. I wouldn't know where to start trying to set up HRTF just in Pd. -Chuckk On 3/20/07, Isidro Gonzalez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi. I am looking for PD objects and/or abstractions to do HRTF filtering. Any ideas on where to get them? Thanks Isi It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] HRTF
Was PD previously under GPL? I published my Pd patch together with copies of Pd, zexy, cyclone, and toxy, and the only license file I could find in my Pd folder was GPL. I meant this in exactly the sense you are saying, but I wasn't aware Pd was under the Berkley License. So after software has been released under a license, it is possible to retroactively change the license? Sounds strange to me. -Chuckk On 3/27/07, Mike McGonagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think that CSound is more Open that PD, as I believe that Miller has released PD under the Berkley License, which is far more open than the GNU license, it doesn't require any kind of adherance to any sort of policy, you can use it for whatever purposes you see fit, even commercial... http://www-crca.ucsd.edu/~msp/Software/LICENSE.txt Mike On 3/27/07, Chuckk Hubbard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe Csound is under LGPL, and if I understand correctly the main difference is that people who use parts of it in commercial applications are not required to keep their source open. Someone else will know better, but to my understanding that makes Csound more open than Pd. -Chuckk On 3/28/07, padawan12 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd love to hear work that comes out of a combination of Csound and Pd I think both are great, just different. Something I feel very strongly about though, are there still 'licensing issues' with Csound or has it shaken off all it's encumberances and become a totally free OS codebase? On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 13:23:29 -0400 Chuckk Hubbard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/27/07, IOhannes m zmoelnig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chuckk Hubbard wrote: Pd people continue to ignore Csound, and Csound people continue to ignore Pd, despite the great power of combining them. I can't help feeling like this is a symptom of being more interested in some intellectual problem than in using all of the available tools to make music. Not seeing the forest for the trees, in a way. this is somewhat true, but ignores the fact that Pd is well established _outside_ the computer music community too. you cannot expect dsp-engineers developping the latest-and-greatest binaural rendering system to get into csound. (but they do use Pd) Fair enough. Csound is indeed audiocentric, as am I. I just know Csound has already implemented HRTF, and exists as a PD object, which I thought the poster wanted. If his interest is in pulling an abstraction apart to see how it works, then Csound probably isn't the easiest way. As far as computer music, it's true that I come across few people who are active on both lists, and occasional disparaging remarks about one or the other. I guess the best thing for me to do in that case is to try to show some of the great things that can come from the combination, rather than complaining about negativity. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Help the Environment, Plant a Bush back in Texas! I place economy among the first and most important republican virtues, and public debt as the greatest of the dangers to be feared. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. -- Thomas Jefferson, third US president, architect and author (1743-1826) Give Peace a Chance -- John Lennon (9 October 1940 – 8 December 1980) Peace may sound simple—one beautiful word— but it requires everything we have, every quality, every strength, every dream, every high ideal. —Yehudi Menuhin (1916–1999), musician -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Stupid Symbol Processing
| [list trim] | On 3/20/07, David F. Place [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [symbol pd-experts(, If I try to process (computer) keyboard inputs thus: [keyname] | [route r s p] || | | nothing matches because the output of [keyname] is prepended by symbol and I can't figure out how to get rid of it. Sorry in advance for the stupid question. Baffled, David ___ (---o---o-o-o---o-o-o( David F. Place mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] HRTF
Interesting idea. Only thing I could suggest would be to use Csound with Pd's csoundapi~ object. You could totally set up an interface for setting angles and stuff with GEM, then relay the HRTF info to Csound. It would be pretty awesome. I wouldn't know where to start trying to set up HRTF just in Pd. -Chuckk On 3/20/07, Isidro Gonzalez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi. I am looking for PD objects and/or abstractions to do HRTF filtering. Any ideas on where to get them? Thanks Isi It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] oldschool rave synths
On 3/16/07, padawan12 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 22:56:46 -0400 Chuckk Hubbard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/16/07, padawan12 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As Chuckk and some of the other mathematicians have said here, some esoteric pure math like operator theory subsumes the whole subject, because Wait, what? I wish I was a mathematician. Do I come across that way? I don't know what operator theory is, but I guess if it's related to what I've said about music cognition, then I have some idea. One k too many, I meant t'other Charlie :) I'm sure C.Henry once said there was something to be said for looking at operator theory, maybe I totally misunderstood because thats well beyond me. I realized after I posted that you must have meant him, but alas I was too tipsy to respond again. sound is about changes and transformations, but I wonder what other peoples top 10 'must have' concepts are. I suppose it depends on your goals, for example a lot of composers learn a disproportionate amount of stats and distributions. I'm humbled by those guys. I borrowed an extra book from my probability teacher (since probability class at an art school is kind of tame), hoping to understand Gaussian, Poisson, etc., after seeing them in the Csound manual, but I'm kind of marooned. Can you remember what it was? I say disproportionate, but really from ignorance What what was? The Csound opcode? I do think of it as overkill for synthesis purposes, but people use Csound for lots of other purposes. I guess for algorithmic composition that kind of specificity is indispensible. You never apprehend the object as a whole, because you don't know what comes next. Then again, I just apprehended that bottle of lager as a whole, so I'm not sure if I'm making much sense... I think beer is triangular, up to a point everything improves linearly, then it all turns to bollocks and goes downhill at roughly the same rate:) It might have been smoother if I had distributed the beer more uniformly across the 10 minutes I took to drink it. Or I could have used a smaller hop size to get more gradual changes. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] oldschool rave synths
On 3/17/07, padawan12 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 14:06:37 -0400 Chuckk Hubbard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What what was? The Csound opcode? No the book on stats for music applications. Alas, it is merely a probability textbook with a little more detail than the one we're using in class; it isn't geared towards music. I do think of it as overkill for synthesis purposes, but people use Csound for lots of other purposes. I guess for algorithmic composition that kind of specificity is indispensible. I'd argue for its audio precision, but then it's not realtime (by design) in the same way that Pd is. Not sure what control stuff you could do in csound that you couldn't in Pd (?) Never really loved the score-orchestra dichotomy either, without that wall to negotiate I think you have more freedom in instrument design and in generation. I love Csound for a bunch of reasons. The score format is definitely not one of them. The csoundapi~ Pd object is awesome, though, and now supports multiple instances. At the moment, I'm working with a 4-movement microtonal sonata I wrote with my Pd JIsequencer and translated to a Csound score. I find it much easier to control synthesis and production with Csound. I think just because it has higher-level stuff. It's also older and has more contributors. But I bet for most people the bottom line is whether they prefer to work with text or graphics. I like both. I'm not sure why, but it seems like the Csound and Pd camps are almost mutually exclusive. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd windows installation help
Pd runs as two apps, pd.exe and wish.exe. They must be able to communicate through a virtual network, and in my experience they are stopped by my firewall unless I open it and specifically allow them to act as servers and access the internet after installing. I always have to do this again after updating to a new version, too. -Chuckk On 3/16/07, ryan dempsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: this is the third time today i've tried installing various versions of pd, and none will work. i'm running win xp on a dell inspiron 9300. when i start pd, nothing happens but it is shown as running in the task manager. i've had working versions on this particular computer before, but i wanted to update it and now nothing works. if anyone out there could help me, i would greatly appreciate it. thanks, ryan ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
