Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?
HI, Morgan Packard wrote: Hello there. I'm interested in using PD. However, as someone who spends a lot of time with code, I'm actually a little afraid of the learning curve involved with the graphical programming language! I'd be much more comfortable creating my patches using, for example, a Python tool. Does such a programmatic PD patch generation tool exist? I can't imagine I'm the first person who's wanted such a thing. People will probably point you to csound or supercollider for your first statement... Anyway the curve is not really so steep, dataflow is of course a slightly different mindset, although if you are skilled at coding that will nevertheless prove benefical. Regarding python, you might have a look at py/pyext [1]. I couldn't successfully have it setup in Ubuntu, because it is strongly tied to a particular python version. Something more 'flexible' IMHO would be nice, ideally running directly within pd would be really nice, even at the level of non-dsp abstractions to begin with (similarly to javscript in MAX)... But this doesn't seem to be of much interest currently. Lorenzo [1] http://puredata.info/Members/thomas/py/ thanks, -Morgan -- Web: http://www.morganpackard.com Music/Art: Latest album: Moment Again Elsewhere http://www.anticipaterecordings.com/releases/ANT_011/index.php iOS app Thicket http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/thicket/id364824621?mt=8available on iTunes store. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?
On Thu, Feb 03, 2011 at 09:04:18AM +0100, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: HI, Morgan Packard wrote: Hello there. I'm interested in using PD. However, as someone who spends a lot of time with code, I'm actually a little afraid of the learning curve involved with the graphical programming language! I'd be much more comfortable creating my patches using, for example, a Python tool. Does such a programmatic PD patch generation tool exist? I can't imagine I'm the first person who's wanted such a thing. People will probably point you to csound or supercollider for your first statement... Anyway the curve is not really so steep, dataflow is of course a slightly different mindset, although if you are skilled at coding that will nevertheless prove benefical. Regarding python, you might have a look at py/pyext [1]. I couldn't successfully have it setup in Ubuntu, because it is strongly tied to a particular python version. Something more 'flexible' IMHO would be nice, ideally running directly within pd would be really nice, even at the level of non-dsp abstractions to begin with (similarly to javscript in MAX)... But this doesn't seem to be of much interest currently. Lorenzo You can write plug-in scripts in Tcl/Tk. Since 0.43 there is an official way of loading them .. though Miller disregards this feature. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?
see http://puredata.info/docs/guiplugins ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?
there's also pdlua, which is much easier to build than py. if you want to learn lua, it works well. the package brings some example patches. http://claudiusmaximus.goto10.org/cm/2008-06-19_pdlua-0.5_released.html HI, Morgan Packard wrote: Hello there. I'm interested in using PD. However, as someone who spends a lot of time with code, I'm actually a little afraid of the learning curve involved with the graphical programming language! I'd be much more comfortable creating my patches using, for example, a Python tool. Does such a programmatic PD patch generation tool exist? I can't imagine I'm the first person who's wanted such a thing. People will probably point you to csound or supercollider for your first statement... Anyway the curve is not really so steep, dataflow is of course a slightly different mindset, although if you are skilled at coding that will nevertheless prove benefical. Regarding python, you might have a look at py/pyext [1]. I couldn't successfully have it setup in Ubuntu, because it is strongly tied to a particular python version. Something more 'flexible' IMHO would be nice, ideally running directly within pd would be really nice, even at the level of non-dsp abstractions to begin with (similarly to javscript in MAX)... But this doesn't seem to be of much interest currently. Lorenzo [1] http://puredata.info/Members/thomas/py/ thanks, -Morgan -- Web: http://www.morganpackard.com Music/Art: Latest album: Moment Again Elsewhere http://www.anticipaterecordings.com/releases/ANT_011/index.php iOS app Thicket http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/thicket/id364824621?mt=8available on iTunes store. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Friedenstr. 58 10249 Berlin (Deutschland) Tel +49 30 42020091 | Mob +49 162 6843570 Studio +49 30 69509190 jmmmp...@googlemail.com | skype: jmmmpjmmmp ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2011-02-03 07:35, Morgan Packard wrote: Hello there. I'm interested in using PD. However, as someone who spends a lot of time with code, I'm actually a little afraid of the learning curve involved with the graphical programming language! well, i would say, that if you don't like graphical programming, then Pd is probably a not so good choice for you. I'd be much more comfortable creating my patches using, for example, a Python tool. Does such a programmatic PD patch generation tool exist? I can't imagine I'm the first person who's wanted such a thing. there are sure ways to programmatically create patches. from whatever environment you prefer. nevertheless you will need to understand how Pd works, in order to do such things, which will send you back to the start, where you need walk the steep hills of learning Pd. just my 2¢. fgmasdr IOhannes PS: afaict, all the responses to your question mentioning pdlua, python, tcl/tk miss the point, as they talk about adding functionality to Pd with the help of text-based languages. (for unknown reasons C and derivatives was not mentioned). this allows you to do more things within the graphical patching environment, but it doesn't replace the graphical part. PPS: i might as well miss the point -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1KccgACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvRMHgCfc+TCPauBdMpvyLhwaulkSXmG V7IAniZyh1H13aWEPPW9ajjUegr215B7 =0Dku -END PGP SIGNATURE- smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?
Same synthesis capabilities, chuck or supercollider (less real-time, csound)Similar graphic capabilities... Processing Although I've got to agree. once you've gotten over infamiliarity the data-flow interface of Pd is definately one of it's greatest strengths. As with any language you've got to learn some syntax before learning to use it fluently. However, it's a good instant-use language. With the code operating in the same environment in which it's produced and edited. Meaning you can observe your code and debug without changing window, re-initialzing, compiling, bulding test methods or any other work-flow road-blocks like this. In short, the graphic interface is one of the great unique selling points of PD (and the rather more expensive maxMSP) and it's a valuable tool once you know how to use it. It's also worth noting that it is possible to edit pd patches in a text editor, however this is a set of instructions for the placement of objects on-screen and is definitely not human readable. Andrew To: pd-list@iem.at; lsut...@libero.it Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 09:57:24 +0100 From: jmmmp...@googlemail.com Subject: Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor? there's also pdlua, which is much easier to build than py. if you want to learn lua, it works well. the package brings some example patches. http://claudiusmaximus.goto10.org/cm/2008-06-19_pdlua-0.5_released.html HI, Morgan Packard wrote: Hello there. I'm interested in using PD. However, as someone who spends a lot of time with code, I'm actually a little afraid of the learning curve involved with the graphical programming language! I'd be much more comfortable creating my patches using, for example, a Python tool. Does such a programmatic PD patch generation tool exist? I can't imagine I'm the first person who's wanted such a thing. People will probably point you to csound or supercollider for your first statement... Anyway the curve is not really so steep, dataflow is of course a slightly different mindset, although if you are skilled at coding that will nevertheless prove benefical. Regarding python, you might have a look at py/pyext [1]. I couldn't successfully have it setup in Ubuntu, because it is strongly tied to a particular python version. Something more 'flexible' IMHO would be nice, ideally running directly within pd would be really nice, even at the level of non-dsp abstractions to begin with (similarly to javscript in MAX)... But this doesn't seem to be of much interest currently. Lorenzo [1] http://puredata.info/Members/thomas/py/ thanks, -Morgan -- Web: http://www.morganpackard.com Music/Art: Latest album: Moment Again Elsewhere http://www.anticipaterecordings.com/releases/ANT_011/index.php iOS app Thicket http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/thicket/id364824621?mt=8available on iTunes store. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Friedenstr. 58 10249 Berlin (Deutschland) Tel +49 30 42020091 | Mob +49 162 6843570 Studio +49 30 69509190 jmmmp...@googlemail.com | skype: jmmmpjmmmp ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?
On Thu, Feb 03, 2011 at 10:06:21AM +0100, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2011-02-03 09:37, errordevelo...@gmail.com wrote: You can write plug-in scripts in Tcl/Tk. Since 0.43 there is an official way of loading them .. though Miller disregards this feature. what makes you say something like that? do you really think, that anything that miller totally dislikes, will make it into pd-vanilla? sorry for not being very politically correct. When I asked Hans about what's heppening with the plugins, he said that Miller has an opinion about this feature to remain but no plugin code is being supplied in the git repository. I mean to say that this could be made a better feature, though it is not even advertised. perhaps there is just more work to be done to make the API usuable. Also, I think it would be quite streight forward to implement a gui-level simple [scrip] object .. it would be a kind of a fake object though and won't work without Tk gui ;( BUT making a Tk scriping fully avaliable for creating widgits would be really neat this way! fgmasdr IOhannes -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1KcA0ACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvRt7ACgnPcX9WDflFm4znMe2ZZ5jkYS Ga4An1dtgc0LsY1zY2/5ajUfNewH7tuq =Cc1Y -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2011-02-03 12:18, errordevelo...@gmail.com wrote: sorry for not being very politically correct. When I asked Hans about what's heppening with the plugins, he said that Miller has an opinion about this feature to remain but no plugin code is being supplied in the git repository. hmm, but Pd also provides an API for creating external objects, and still there are virtually no externals in the git repository nor in the releases (virtually no as compared to the number of externals you find in the pure-data svn or in the Pd-extended releases) for me the entire idea about plugins is about not needing to distribute them with a small core applications. fgmasdr IOhannes ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1KmUsACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvRxqACcDYsvFYU7EFirT0Pqpy5iVM0E 1rIAoOHs5EvESLXJOlr3psqnrX/IA22D =v1XH -END PGP SIGNATURE- smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?
On Thu, Feb 03, 2011 at 01:02:19PM +0100, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2011-02-03 12:18, errordevelo...@gmail.com wrote: sorry for not being very politically correct. When I asked Hans about what's heppening with the plugins, he said that Miller has an opinion about this feature to remain but no plugin code is being supplied in the git repository. hmm, but Pd also provides an API for creating external objects, and still there are virtually no externals in the git repository nor in the releases (virtually no as compared to the number of externals you find in the pure-data svn or in the Pd-extended releases) for me the entire idea about plugins is about not needing to distribute them with a small core applications. IOhannes, in any case I didn't mean to argue with you on this subject. I just thought that one who pulls git repo may want to see a simple plugin example (the key biddings example could a decent pick BTW). once again, I am sorry for spreading gossips ;( fgmasdr IOhannes ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1KmUsACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvRxqACcDYsvFYU7EFirT0Pqpy5iVM0E 1rIAoOHs5EvESLXJOlr3psqnrX/IA22D =v1XH -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?
Thanks IOHannes, I'm interested in PD primarily as an audio engine embedded in iOS apps. For legal and technical reasons, most of the other obvious choices aren't viable for me. And thanks for your ps. You're correct that I'm not looking for ways to embed scripting into PD, I'm looking for a more script-based approach to creating PD patch files. Honestly, I'm a little surprised that this isn't a more common desire. I guess generally people who want to create patches with code simply migrate to SuperCollider or CSound or whatever. But neither of those is an option for me. -Morgan On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 2:13 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2011-02-03 07:35, Morgan Packard wrote: Hello there. I'm interested in using PD. However, as someone who spends a lot of time with code, I'm actually a little afraid of the learning curve involved with the graphical programming language! well, i would say, that if you don't like graphical programming, then Pd is probably a not so good choice for you. I'd be much more comfortable creating my patches using, for example, a Python tool. Does such a programmatic PD patch generation tool exist? I can't imagine I'm the first person who's wanted such a thing. there are sure ways to programmatically create patches. from whatever environment you prefer. nevertheless you will need to understand how Pd works, in order to do such things, which will send you back to the start, where you need walk the steep hills of learning Pd. just my 2¢. fgmasdr IOhannes PS: afaict, all the responses to your question mentioning pdlua, python, tcl/tk miss the point, as they talk about adding functionality to Pd with the help of text-based languages. (for unknown reasons C and derivatives was not mentioned). this allows you to do more things within the graphical patching environment, but it doesn't replace the graphical part. PPS: i might as well miss the point -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1KccgACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvRMHgCfc+TCPauBdMpvyLhwaulkSXmG V7IAniZyh1H13aWEPPW9ajjUegr215B7 =0Dku -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Web: http://www.morganpackard.com Music/Art: Latest album: Moment Again Elsewherehttp://www.anticipaterecordings.com/releases/ANT_011/index.php iOS app Thicket http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/thicket/id364824621?mt=8available on iTunes store . ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?
Whoops, just realized I hadn't replied to the list: It seems to me that there are two ways to maybe? accomplish what you're describing: 1) what I've explored fairly deeply is using the pd internal messages to create objects in a running patch from a python script over a socket connection. There's a library someone made that handles this that I can't remember the name of right now (anyone?) but I also wrote a basic thing here: https://github.com/virgildisgr4ce/PureeData 2) can you write the patch file from a script and then load it? If you haven't looked into it yet, the syntax is pretty basic. ±±±t3db0t On Feb 3, 2011, at 11:40 AM, Morgan Packard wrote: Thanks IOHannes, I'm interested in PD primarily as an audio engine embedded in iOS apps. For legal and technical reasons, most of the other obvious choices aren't viable for me. And thanks for your ps. You're correct that I'm not looking for ways to embed scripting into PD, I'm looking for a more script-based approach to creating PD patch files. Honestly, I'm a little surprised that this isn't a more common desire. I guess generally people who want to create patches with code simply migrate to SuperCollider or CSound or whatever. But neither of those is an option for me. -Morgan On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 2:13 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2011-02-03 07:35, Morgan Packard wrote: Hello there. I'm interested in using PD. However, as someone who spends a lot of time with code, I'm actually a little afraid of the learning curve involved with the graphical programming language! well, i would say, that if you don't like graphical programming, then Pd is probably a not so good choice for you. I'd be much more comfortable creating my patches using, for example, a Python tool. Does such a programmatic PD patch generation tool exist? I can't imagine I'm the first person who's wanted such a thing. there are sure ways to programmatically create patches. from whatever environment you prefer. nevertheless you will need to understand how Pd works, in order to do such things, which will send you back to the start, where you need walk the steep hills of learning Pd. just my 2¢. fgmasdr IOhannes PS: afaict, all the responses to your question mentioning pdlua, python, tcl/tk miss the point, as they talk about adding functionality to Pd with the help of text-based languages. (for unknown reasons C and derivatives was not mentioned). this allows you to do more things within the graphical patching environment, but it doesn't replace the graphical part. PPS: i might as well miss the point -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1KccgACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvRMHgCfc+TCPauBdMpvyLhwaulkSXmG V7IAniZyh1H13aWEPPW9ajjUegr215B7 =0Dku -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Web: http://www.morganpackard.com Music/Art: Latest album: Moment Again Elsewhere iOS app Thicket available on iTunes store. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?
I don't know if anyone has already created a (scripting) tool specifically for generating pd patch files? On Feb 3, 2011, at 12:22 PM, Morgan Packard wrote: Hit Tedb0t, #2 is definitely what I'm interested in. It does look pretty simple to roll my own. But if someone had already created a nice tool to do this, I'd prefer that. In particular, it seems that putting proper constraints on the final file would be nice. For example, the gui editor doesn't permit me to connect the output of an osc to the input of a bang. It would be nice to have a similar limitation in the hypothetical script-based tool we're discussing. -Morgan On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Tedb0t li...@liminastudio.com wrote: It seems to me that there are two ways to maybe? accomplish what you're describing: 1) what I've explored fairly deeply is using the pd internal messages to create objects in a running patch from a python script over a socket connection. There's a library someone made that handles this that I can't remember the name of right now (anyone?) but I also wrote a basic thing here: https://github.com/virgildisgr4ce/PureeData 2) can you write the patch file from a script and then load it? If you haven't looked into it yet, the syntax is pretty basic. ±±±t3db0t On Feb 3, 2011, at 11:40 AM, Morgan Packard wrote: Thanks IOHannes, I'm interested in PD primarily as an audio engine embedded in iOS apps. For legal and technical reasons, most of the other obvious choices aren't viable for me. And thanks for your ps. You're correct that I'm not looking for ways to embed scripting into PD, I'm looking for a more script-based approach to creating PD patch files. Honestly, I'm a little surprised that this isn't a more common desire. I guess generally people who want to create patches with code simply migrate to SuperCollider or CSound or whatever. But neither of those is an option for me. -Morgan On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 2:13 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2011-02-03 07:35, Morgan Packard wrote: Hello there. I'm interested in using PD. However, as someone who spends a lot of time with code, I'm actually a little afraid of the learning curve involved with the graphical programming language! well, i would say, that if you don't like graphical programming, then Pd is probably a not so good choice for you. I'd be much more comfortable creating my patches using, for example, a Python tool. Does such a programmatic PD patch generation tool exist? I can't imagine I'm the first person who's wanted such a thing. there are sure ways to programmatically create patches. from whatever environment you prefer. nevertheless you will need to understand how Pd works, in order to do such things, which will send you back to the start, where you need walk the steep hills of learning Pd. just my 2¢. fgmasdr IOhannes PS: afaict, all the responses to your question mentioning pdlua, python, tcl/tk miss the point, as they talk about adding functionality to Pd with the help of text-based languages. (for unknown reasons C and derivatives was not mentioned). this allows you to do more things within the graphical patching environment, but it doesn't replace the graphical part. PPS: i might as well miss the point -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1KccgACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvRMHgCfc+TCPauBdMpvyLhwaulkSXmG V7IAniZyh1H13aWEPPW9ajjUegr215B7 =0Dku -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Web: http://www.morganpackard.com Music/Art: Latest album: Moment Again Elsewhere iOS app Thicket available on iTunes store. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Web: http://www.morganpackard.com Music/Art: Latest album: Moment Again Elsewhere iOS app Thicket available on iTunes store. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?
And I forgot too! (along with accidentally writing hit tedbot instead of hi tedbot in my original reply. I definitely meant the latter, not the former!) Hi Tedb0t, #2 is definitely what I'm interested in. It does look pretty simple to roll my own. But if someone had already created a nice tool to do this, I'd prefer that. In particular, it seems that putting proper constraints on the final file would be nice. For example, the gui editor doesn't permit me to connect the output of an osc to the input of a bang. It would be nice to have a similar limitation in the hypothetical script-based tool we're discussing. -Morgan On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 10:28 AM, Tedb0t li...@liminastudio.com wrote: Whoops, just realized I hadn't replied to the list: It seems to me that there are two ways to maybe? accomplish what you're describing: 1) what I've explored fairly deeply is using the pd internal messages to create objects in a running patch from a python script over a socket connection. There's a library someone made that handles this that I can't remember the name of right now (anyone?) but I also wrote a basic thing here: https://github.com/virgildisgr4ce/PureeData 2) can you write the patch file from a script and then load it? If you haven't looked into it yet, the syntax is pretty basic. ±±±t3db0t On Feb 3, 2011, at 11:40 AM, Morgan Packard wrote: Thanks IOHannes, I'm interested in PD primarily as an audio engine embedded in iOS apps. For legal and technical reasons, most of the other obvious choices aren't viable for me. And thanks for your ps. You're correct that I'm not looking for ways to embed scripting into PD, I'm looking for a more script-based approach to creating PD patch files. Honestly, I'm a little surprised that this isn't a more common desire. I guess generally people who want to create patches with code simply migrate to SuperCollider or CSound or whatever. But neither of those is an option for me. -Morgan On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 2:13 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.atwrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2011-02-03 07:35, Morgan Packard wrote: Hello there. I'm interested in using PD. However, as someone who spends a lot of time with code, I'm actually a little afraid of the learning curve involved with the graphical programming language! well, i would say, that if you don't like graphical programming, then Pd is probably a not so good choice for you. I'd be much more comfortable creating my patches using, for example, a Python tool. Does such a programmatic PD patch generation tool exist? I can't imagine I'm the first person who's wanted such a thing. there are sure ways to programmatically create patches. from whatever environment you prefer. nevertheless you will need to understand how Pd works, in order to do such things, which will send you back to the start, where you need walk the steep hills of learning Pd. just my 2¢. fgmasdr IOhannes PS: afaict, all the responses to your question mentioning pdlua, python, tcl/tk miss the point, as they talk about adding functionality to Pd with the help of text-based languages. (for unknown reasons C and derivatives was not mentioned). this allows you to do more things within the graphical patching environment, but it doesn't replace the graphical part. PPS: i might as well miss the point -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1KccgACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvRMHgCfc+TCPauBdMpvyLhwaulkSXmG V7IAniZyh1H13aWEPPW9ajjUegr215B7 =0Dku -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Web: http://www.morganpackard.com Music/Art: Latest album: Moment Again Elsewherehttp://www.anticipaterecordings.com/releases/ANT_011/index.php iOS app Thicket http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/thicket/id364824621?mt=8available on iTunes store . ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Web: http://www.morganpackard.com Music/Art: Latest album: Moment Again Elsewherehttp://www.anticipaterecordings.com/releases/ANT_011/index.php iOS app Thicket http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/thicket/id364824621?mt=8available on iTunes store . ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?
On Thu, 3 Feb 2011, Tedb0t wrote: I don't know if anyone has already created a (scripting) tool specifically for generating pd patch files? I made several, over the years. GridFlow's class index is generated by a Tcl script. My jmax-to-pd patch conversion tool was written in Ruby. The numop-table and type-table patches of GridFlow were generated by Tcl scripts. There might be a few other scripts that I don't remember. What kind of tool do you have in mind ? ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches
I haven't had the opportunity to try this out yet, but it might be what you're looking for. https://github.com/pd-projects/ruby-puredata Thanks IOHannes, I'm interested in PD primarily as an audio engine embedded in iOS apps. For legal and technical reasons, most of the other obvious choices aren't viable for me. And thanks for your ps. You're correct that I'm not looking for ways to embed scripting into PD, I'm looking for a more script-based approach to creating PD patch files. Honestly, I'm a little surprised that this isn't a more common desire. I guess generally people who want to create patches with code simply migrate to SuperCollider or CSound or whatever. But neither of those is an option for me. -Morgan On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 2:13 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2011-02-03 07:35, Morgan Packard wrote: Hello there. I'm interested in using PD. However, as someone who spends a lot of time with code, I'm actually a little afraid of the learning curve involved with the graphical programming language! well, i would say, that if you don't like graphical programming, then Pd is probably a not so good choice for you. I'd be much more comfortable creating my patches using, for example, a Python tool. Does such a programmatic PD patch generation tool exist? I can't imagine I'm the first person who's wanted such a thing. there are sure ways to programmatically create patches. from whatever environment you prefer. nevertheless you will need to understand how Pd works, in order to do such things, which will send you back to the start, where you need walk the steep hills of learning Pd. just my 2?. fgmasdr IOhannes PS: afaict, all the responses to your question mentioning pdlua, python, tcl/tk miss the point, as they talk about adding functionality to Pd with the help of text-based languages. (for unknown reasons C and derivatives was not mentioned). this allows you to do more things within the graphical patching environment, but it doesn't replace the graphical part. PPS: i might as well miss the point -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1KccgACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvRMHgCfc+TCPauBdMpvyLhwaulkSXmG V7IAniZyh1H13aWEPPW9ajjUegr215B7 =0Dku -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches
Thanks Ben. This looks like a way to manupalate PD while it's running. I'm looking for a way to create patch files. -Morgan On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 10:54 AM, Ben Baker-Smith bbakersm...@gmail.comwrote: I haven't had the opportunity to try this out yet, but it might be what you're looking for. https://github.com/pd-projects/ruby-puredata Thanks IOHannes, I'm interested in PD primarily as an audio engine embedded in iOS apps. For legal and technical reasons, most of the other obvious choices aren't viable for me. And thanks for your ps. You're correct that I'm not looking for ways to embed scripting into PD, I'm looking for a more script-based approach to creating PD patch files. Honestly, I'm a little surprised that this isn't a more common desire. I guess generally people who want to create patches with code simply migrate to SuperCollider or CSound or whatever. But neither of those is an option for me. -Morgan On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 2:13 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2011-02-03 07:35, Morgan Packard wrote: Hello there. I'm interested in using PD. However, as someone who spends a lot of time with code, I'm actually a little afraid of the learning curve involved with the graphical programming language! well, i would say, that if you don't like graphical programming, then Pd is probably a not so good choice for you. I'd be much more comfortable creating my patches using, for example, a Python tool. Does such a programmatic PD patch generation tool exist? I can't imagine I'm the first person who's wanted such a thing. there are sure ways to programmatically create patches. from whatever environment you prefer. nevertheless you will need to understand how Pd works, in order to do such things, which will send you back to the start, where you need walk the steep hills of learning Pd. just my 2?. fgmasdr IOhannes PS: afaict, all the responses to your question mentioning pdlua, python, tcl/tk miss the point, as they talk about adding functionality to Pd with the help of text-based languages. (for unknown reasons C and derivatives was not mentioned). this allows you to do more things within the graphical patching environment, but it doesn't replace the graphical part. PPS: i might as well miss the point -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk1KccgACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvRMHgCfc+TCPauBdMpvyLhwaulkSXmG V7IAniZyh1H13aWEPPW9ajjUegr215B7 =0Dku -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Web: http://www.morganpackard.com Music/Art: Latest album: Moment Again Elsewherehttp://www.anticipaterecordings.com/releases/ANT_011/index.php iOS app Thicket http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/thicket/id364824621?mt=8available on iTunes store . ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches
On Thu, 3 Feb 2011, Ben Baker-Smith wrote: I haven't had the opportunity to try this out yet, but it might be what you're looking for. https://github.com/pd-projects/ruby-puredata That is about 0,1 % of Pd reimplemented in Ruby. It has no code nor any API in common with neither the pd vanilla/extended/devel/gui-rewrite/l20rk/desiredata branches, nor with zengarden. It's a completely unrelated thing. So little has been implemented, that unless you're a huge Ruby fan seeking to rewrite the whole of PureData in Ruby, you shouldn't be trying to touch this project. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches
unless you're a huge Ruby fan seeking to rewrite the whole of PureData in Ruby, you shouldn't be trying to touch this project That would be a very inaccurate description of me. I'm closer to being a circus bear in a tutu than that :) On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 3:22 PM, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: On Thu, 3 Feb 2011, Ben Baker-Smith wrote: I haven't had the opportunity to try this out yet, but it might be what you're looking for. https://github.com/pd-projects/ruby-puredata That is about 0,1 % of Pd reimplemented in Ruby. It has no code nor any API in common with neither the pd vanilla/extended/devel/gui-rewrite/l20rk/desiredata branches, nor with zengarden. It's a completely unrelated thing. So little has been implemented, that . ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC -- Web: http://www.morganpackard.com Music/Art: Latest album: Moment Again Elsewherehttp://www.anticipaterecordings.com/releases/ANT_011/index.php iOS app Thicket http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/thicket/id364824621?mt=8available on iTunes store . ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?
Load a PD patch in a text editor and take a look. Ed Metastudio 4 for Pure Data - coming soon! Metastudio 3 still available at http://sharktracks.co.uk/puredata From: Morgan Packard mor...@morganpackard.com To: pd-list@iem.at Sent: Thu, 3 February, 2011 6:35:19 Subject: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor? Hello there. I'm interested in using PD. However, as someone who spends a lot of time with code, I'm actually a little afraid of the learning curve involved with the graphical programming language! I'd be much more comfortable creating my patches using, for example, a Python tool. Does such a programmatic PD patch generation tool exist? I can't imagine I'm the first person who's wanted such a thing. thanks, -Morgan -- Web: http://www.morganpackard.com Music/Art: Latest album: Moment Again Elsewhere iOS app Thicketavailable on iTunes store. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches
I'm a Pd'er turned rubyist, this looks like something I might one day seriously
want to do ('course I might not, it depends if there's anything cool you can do
with it. Also, I'm doing a talk on PD to the local ruby users group in a couple
of weeks time, which means this might be an interesting way to break the ice.
Also, the pd-projects github, can't believe I didn't find that before but it
could get rather helpful.
cheers
Andrew
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 17:22:25 -0500
From: ma...@artengine.ca
To: bbakersm...@gmail.com
CC: pd-list@iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches
On Thu, 3 Feb 2011, Ben Baker-Smith wrote:
I haven't had the opportunity to try this out yet, but it might be what
you're looking for.
https://github.com/pd-projects/ruby-puredata
That is about 0,1 % of Pd reimplemented in Ruby. It has no code nor any
API in common with neither the pd
vanilla/extended/devel/gui-rewrite/l20rk/desiredata branches, nor with
zengarden. It's a completely unrelated thing.
So little has been implemented, that unless you're a huge Ruby fan seeking
to rewrite the whole of PureData in Ruby, you shouldn't be trying to touch
this project.
___
| Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC
___
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Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?
2011/2/3 Morgan Packard mor...@morganpackard.com: SuperCollider or CSound or whatever. But neither of those is an option for me. For legal reasons? If it's your own project, consider the option charging for your work, you just have to make your modifications available. Or because they don't on phones? I'm not sure it's stable enough, but take a look in the SC ports for android and iphone. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?
Thanks Ed. Yes, it is indeed simple-looking. But simply editing that file by hand doesn't do me much good. I'd want the power of scripting -- loops, variables, conditionals, to generate such a thing for me. -Morgan On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 3:35 PM, Ed Kelly morph_2...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Load a PD patch in a text editor and take a look. Ed Metastudio 4 for Pure Data - coming soon! Metastudio 3 still available at http://sharktracks.co.uk/puredata -- *From:* Morgan Packard mor...@morganpackard.com *To:* pd-list@iem.at *Sent:* Thu, 3 February, 2011 6:35:19 *Subject:* [PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor? Hello there. I'm interested in using PD. However, as someone who spends a lot of time with code, I'm actually a little afraid of the learning curve involved with the graphical programming language! I'd be much more comfortable creating my patches using, for example, a Python tool. Does such a programmatic PD patch generation tool exist? I can't imagine I'm the first person who's wanted such a thing. thanks, -Morgan -- Web: http://www.morganpackard.com Music/Art: Latest album: Moment Again Elsewherehttp://www.anticipaterecordings.com/releases/ANT_011/index.php iOS app Thicket http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/thicket/id364824621?mt=8available on iTunes store . -- Web: http://www.morganpackard.com Music/Art: Latest album: Moment Again Elsewherehttp://www.anticipaterecordings.com/releases/ANT_011/index.php iOS app Thicket http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/thicket/id364824621?mt=8available on iTunes store . ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Are there alternative means of creating patches besides the graphical editor?
Hello there. I'm interested in using PD. However, as someone who spends a lot of time with code, I'm actually a little afraid of the learning curve involved with the graphical programming language! I'd be much more comfortable creating my patches using, for example, a Python tool. Does such a programmatic PD patch generation tool exist? I can't imagine I'm the first person who's wanted such a thing. thanks, -Morgan -- Web: http://www.morganpackard.com Music/Art: Latest album: Moment Again Elsewherehttp://www.anticipaterecordings.com/releases/ANT_011/index.php iOS app Thicket http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/thicket/id364824621?mt=8available on iTunes store . ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
