Re: [PD] Benefits of using an external soundcard?
Hello, My experience is partly similar to what Charles mentioned: an external soundcard can be much better in S/R ratio (both Brownian noise of the preamp and specific frequencies produced by power supply). I would not say that noise is less noticeable in live performance though - on the contrary: it is heavily amplified on the pa system, more than in a home environment. Furthermore, in live performance you need a directional mic and these are less sensitive than omnidirectional mics, so you need to amplify more and S/R ratio gets worse. For this reason I bought myself a nice audio interface which works with Linux, a Mackie Onyx Blackjack. Not expensive, two channel mic/line/instrument with phantom, low noise. Later however, I noticed Panasonic unidirectional electret capsules which can be directly connected to a built-in computer sound card with mic input. Sensitivity is less than omnidirectional capsules but better than dynamic or condenser unidirectional mics. The Panasonic capsule is very sensitive to plosive mouth noises and initially I thought they were useless. But with good wind protection (imitation fur) it works nice. The type of this capsule is WM-55A103. My friend bought them from Digikey but it seems they're out of stock now, obsolete they say! They can still be found from other sources. Katja On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 4:37 AM, Mario Mey mario...@gmail.com wrote: Brian: I comment between lines: El 09/08/13 09:42, Brian Fay escribió: Is there a specific type of microphone you will be using? I've seen some videos of Beardyman recently using some type of hands-free lavalier microphone. I will use my wireless VHF SHURE microphone (I know it is old). The original is a headset, but, for beatbox, I use a SM-58 connected to the same trasnmisor. It sounds different, so, the SM-58 jack has a resistor to turn the gain down and an EQ in PureData, to make it sound like the other. I don't know if I will use the headset (as Beardyman) or the SM-58. It is about comfort. This and other condenser microphones require Phantom Power, which is provided by many audio interfaces and mixers but generally not built in to an internal soundcard. It doesn't need phantom power. See how far you can get with what you have; there's no point in buying something that you don't need. But you might find that you do need one eventually. I will buy the cheap soundcard (ARS $200). I understand what you say, but it has some benefits: - I care the notebook audio-out jack. USB is more resistent for pluging and unpluging. I (this) summer, I work in a park and I do what this video shows, EVERYNIGHT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNUZULR7k18 - I have more inputs and outputs (for future features). - Maybe, I avoid noise in the line (for the moment, I don't have it... but I think it depends on the power line of the location). - Sometimes, I do record some samples... it will be usefull for that. Keep in mind that you'll need very low latency (less than 20 miliseconds) for your application. I'm not sure if this is affected by the sound card or not. All of the audio processing happens on the CPU, but maybe the buffering stages for the sound card add enough delay to add latency... could somebody with more familiarity chime in here? For now, I have 5.8ms of latency. It's very good for me. If you are saying that an external soundcard would add latency... more than the internal, so, it is not good! Thanks. On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 7:28 AM, Mario Mey mario...@gmail.com wrote: El 08/08/13 17:50, Charles Z Henry escribió: Hi Mario The number one reason for having an external sound card is noise isolation. The card's proximity to the power supply and motherboard are bad for EM noise. Also, a computer power supply and a good audio power supply for recording have much the same relationship--there's more noise in switching electronics. Next, there's the size constraints. You'd have a hard time adding all the connectors for a large number of channels on a card which plugs in to your PCI(e) slots. It's ok, I have a notebook: 1 plug out, 1 plug in. Third: there's not as great a need for bandwidth for audio as there is with video. Video cards need all that PCI(e) bandwidth. Audio doesn't. It's a relatively small amount of data. Of course--I think USB and firewire really don't have enough bandwidth for good scalability, but that's another discussion. But... what are you doing with it? You have different requirements for recording and for live sound. Live sound: just do it up. No one will likely notice. Live sound is my purpose. Mic-in looping-station and multieffects system (following the steps of Beardyman and his Beardytron_5000). But, sorry about not understanding your expresion (english is not my native language) What do you mean with just do it up, no one will likely notice? Should I buy it or no one will notice the difference? I
Re: [PD] Benefits of using an external soundcard?
Brian: I comment between lines: El 09/08/13 09:42, Brian Fay escribió: Is there a specific type of microphone you will be using? I've seen some videos of Beardyman recently using some type of hands-free lavalier microphone. I will use my wireless VHF SHURE microphone (I know it is old). The original is a headset, but, for beatbox, I use a SM-58 connected to the same trasnmisor. It sounds different, so, the SM-58 jack has a resistor to turn the gain down and an EQ in PureData, to make it sound like the other. I don't know if I will use the headset (as Beardyman) or the SM-58. It is about comfort. This and other condenser microphones require Phantom Power, which is provided by many audio interfaces and mixers but generally not built in to an internal soundcard. It doesn't need phantom power. See how far you can get with what you have; there's no point in buying something that you don't need. But you might find that you do need one eventually. I will buy the cheap soundcard (ARS $200). I understand what you say, but it has some benefits: - I care the notebook audio-out jack. USB is more resistent for pluging and unpluging. I (this) summer, I work in a park and I do what this video shows, EVERYNIGHT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNUZULR7k18 - I have more inputs and outputs (for future features). - Maybe, I avoid noise in the line (for the moment, I don't have it... but I think it depends on the power line of the location). - Sometimes, I do record some samples... it will be usefull for that. Keep in mind that you'll need very low latency (less than 20 miliseconds) for your application. I'm not sure if this is affected by the sound card or not. All of the audio processing happens on the CPU, but maybe the buffering stages for the sound card add enough delay to add latency... could somebody with more familiarity chime in here? For now, I have 5.8ms of latency. It's very good for me. If you are saying that an external soundcard would add latency... more than the internal, so, it is not good! Thanks. On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 7:28 AM, Mario Mey mario...@gmail.com mailto:mario...@gmail.com wrote: El 08/08/13 17:50, Charles Z Henry escribió: Hi Mario The number one reason for having an external sound card is noise isolation. The card's proximity to the power supply and motherboard are bad for EM noise. Also, a computer power supply and a good audio power supply for recording have much the same relationship--there's more noise in switching electronics. Next, there's the size constraints. You'd have a hard time adding all the connectors for a large number of channels on a card which plugs in to your PCI(e) slots. It's ok, I have a notebook: 1 plug out, 1 plug in. Third: there's not as great a need for bandwidth for audio as there is with video. Video cards need all that PCI(e) bandwidth. Audio doesn't. It's a relatively small amount of data. Of course--I think USB and firewire really don't have enough bandwidth for good scalability, but that's another discussion. But... what are you doing with it? You have different requirements for recording and for live sound. Live sound: just do it up. No one will likely notice. Live sound is my purpose. Mic-in looping-station and multieffects system (following the steps of Beardyman and his Beardytron_5000). But, sorry about not understanding your expresion (english is not my native language) What do you mean with just do it up, no one will likely notice? Should I buy it or no one will notice the difference? I think you mean I should... If you're planning on recording something on just 2 channels on the built-in sound card, keep in mind that your dynamic range will be pretty bad, even if you get a good pre-amp in the middle to take the most advantage of your range. You'd much rather have an external sound card with some adjustable analog pre-amps in the box. About the soundcard I post, the Encore 7.1 ENMAB-8CM (http://www.encore-usa.com/ar/support/ENMAB-8CM)... it's really a china generic useless card... or it's good for starting? It has no analog pot. Chuck Thanks so much for your time. On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Mario Mey mario...@gmail.com mailto:mario...@gmail.com wrote: I'm using my integrated soundcard: 00:14.2 Audio device: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA) (rev 40). I know that Pd is processing on CPU and I don't need more than 2 inputs and 2 outputs channels. So... I think that there's no need to buy an external one. Is there any benefit of using one? I know that this USB soundcard is not a very good one... but maybe it's good for my economy. What's your opinion? http://www.encore-usa.com/ar/support/ENMAB-8CM
Re: [PD] Benefits of using an external soundcard?
Charles, as I answer to Brian, I paste the same about the soundcard /I will buy the cheap soundcard (ARS $200). I understand what you say, but it has some benefits:// // //- I care the notebook audio-out jack. USB is more resistent for pluging and unpluging. I (this) summer, I work in a park and I do what this video shows, EVERYNIGHT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNUZULR7k18// //- I have more inputs and outputs (for future features).// //- Maybe, I avoid noise in the line (for the moment, I don't have it... but I think it depends on the power line of the location).// //- Sometimes, I do record some samples... it will be usefull for that.// / And, you can check BEARDYTRON_5000 here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OlHSNpYg0A and other videos there. Thanks. El 09/08/13 11:34, Charles Z Henry escribió: On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 6:28 AM, Mario Mey mario...@gmail.com mailto:mario...@gmail.com wrote: El 08/08/13 17:50, Charles Z Henry escribió: Hi Mario The number one reason for having an external sound card is noise isolation. The card's proximity to the power supply and motherboard are bad for EM noise. Also, a computer power supply and a good audio power supply for recording have much the same relationship--there's more noise in switching electronics. Next, there's the size constraints. You'd have a hard time adding all the connectors for a large number of channels on a card which plugs in to your PCI(e) slots. It's ok, I have a notebook: 1 plug out, 1 plug in. Third: there's not as great a need for bandwidth for audio as there is with video. Video cards need all that PCI(e) bandwidth. Audio doesn't. It's a relatively small amount of data. Of course--I think USB and firewire really don't have enough bandwidth for good scalability, but that's another discussion. But... what are you doing with it? You have different requirements for recording and for live sound. Live sound: just do it up. No one will likely notice. Live sound is my purpose. Mic-in looping-station and multieffects system (following the steps of Beardyman and his Beardytron_5000). But, sorry about not understanding your expresion (english is not my native language) What do you mean with just do it up, no one will likely notice? Should I buy it or no one will notice the difference? I think you mean I should... Just use the onboard sound. Live performance or installations can be much more tolerant of noise. You may have to tune your patches for the hardware, but don't give it too much thought and just do it up (a recommendation). I'm not familiar with Beardyman/tron_5000. That sounds cool. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Benefits of using an external soundcard?
El 08/08/13 17:50, Charles Z Henry escribió: Hi Mario The number one reason for having an external sound card is noise isolation. The card's proximity to the power supply and motherboard are bad for EM noise. Also, a computer power supply and a good audio power supply for recording have much the same relationship--there's more noise in switching electronics. Next, there's the size constraints. You'd have a hard time adding all the connectors for a large number of channels on a card which plugs in to your PCI(e) slots. It's ok, I have a notebook: 1 plug out, 1 plug in. Third: there's not as great a need for bandwidth for audio as there is with video. Video cards need all that PCI(e) bandwidth. Audio doesn't. It's a relatively small amount of data. Of course--I think USB and firewire really don't have enough bandwidth for good scalability, but that's another discussion. But... what are you doing with it? You have different requirements for recording and for live sound. Live sound: just do it up. No one will likely notice. Live sound is my purpose. Mic-in looping-station and multieffects system (following the steps of Beardyman and his Beardytron_5000). But, sorry about not understanding your expresion (english is not my native language) What do you mean with just do it up, no one will likely notice? Should I buy it or no one will notice the difference? I think you mean I should... If you're planning on recording something on just 2 channels on the built-in sound card, keep in mind that your dynamic range will be pretty bad, even if you get a good pre-amp in the middle to take the most advantage of your range. You'd much rather have an external sound card with some adjustable analog pre-amps in the box. About the soundcard I post, the Encore 7.1 ENMAB-8CM (http://www.encore-usa.com/ar/support/ENMAB-8CM)... it's really a china generic useless card... or it's good for starting? It has no analog pot. Chuck Thanks so much for your time. On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Mario Mey mario...@gmail.com mailto:mario...@gmail.com wrote: I'm using my integrated soundcard: 00:14.2 Audio device: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA) (rev 40). I know that Pd is processing on CPU and I don't need more than 2 inputs and 2 outputs channels. So... I think that there's no need to buy an external one. Is there any benefit of using one? I know that this USB soundcard is not a very good one... but maybe it's good for my economy. What's your opinion? http://www.encore-usa.com/ar/support/ENMAB-8CM ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailto:Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Benefits of using an external soundcard?
Is there a specific type of microphone you will be using? I've seen some videos of Beardyman recently using some type of hands-free lavalier microphone. This and other condenser microphones require Phantom Power, which is provided by many audio interfaces and mixers but generally not built in to an internal soundcard. See how far you can get with what you have; there's no point in buying something that you don't need. But you might find that you do need one eventually. Keep in mind that you'll need very low latency (less than 20 miliseconds) for your application. I'm not sure if this is affected by the sound card or not. All of the audio processing happens on the CPU, but maybe the buffering stages for the sound card add enough delay to add latency... could somebody with more familiarity chime in here? On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 7:28 AM, Mario Mey mario...@gmail.com wrote: El 08/08/13 17:50, Charles Z Henry escribió: Hi Mario The number one reason for having an external sound card is noise isolation. The card's proximity to the power supply and motherboard are bad for EM noise. Also, a computer power supply and a good audio power supply for recording have much the same relationship--there's more noise in switching electronics. Next, there's the size constraints. You'd have a hard time adding all the connectors for a large number of channels on a card which plugs in to your PCI(e) slots. It's ok, I have a notebook: 1 plug out, 1 plug in. Third: there's not as great a need for bandwidth for audio as there is with video. Video cards need all that PCI(e) bandwidth. Audio doesn't. It's a relatively small amount of data. Of course--I think USB and firewire really don't have enough bandwidth for good scalability, but that's another discussion. But... what are you doing with it? You have different requirements for recording and for live sound. Live sound: just do it up. No one will likely notice. Live sound is my purpose. Mic-in looping-station and multieffects system (following the steps of Beardyman and his Beardytron_5000). But, sorry about not understanding your expresion (english is not my native language) What do you mean with just do it up, no one will likely notice? Should I buy it or no one will notice the difference? I think you mean I should... If you're planning on recording something on just 2 channels on the built-in sound card, keep in mind that your dynamic range will be pretty bad, even if you get a good pre-amp in the middle to take the most advantage of your range. You'd much rather have an external sound card with some adjustable analog pre-amps in the box. About the soundcard I post, the Encore 7.1 ENMAB-8CM ( http://www.encore-usa.com/ar/support/ENMAB-8CM)... it's really a china generic useless card... or it's good for starting? It has no analog pot. Chuck Thanks so much for your time. On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Mario Mey mario...@gmail.com wrote: I'm using my integrated soundcard: 00:14.2 Audio device: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA) (rev 40). I know that Pd is processing on CPU and I don't need more than 2 inputs and 2 outputs channels. So... I think that there's no need to buy an external one. Is there any benefit of using one? I know that this USB soundcard is not a very good one... but maybe it's good for my economy. What's your opinion? http://www.encore-usa.com/ar/support/ENMAB-8CM ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Benefits of using an external soundcard?
On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 6:28 AM, Mario Mey mario...@gmail.com wrote: El 08/08/13 17:50, Charles Z Henry escribió: Hi Mario The number one reason for having an external sound card is noise isolation. The card's proximity to the power supply and motherboard are bad for EM noise. Also, a computer power supply and a good audio power supply for recording have much the same relationship--there's more noise in switching electronics. Next, there's the size constraints. You'd have a hard time adding all the connectors for a large number of channels on a card which plugs in to your PCI(e) slots. It's ok, I have a notebook: 1 plug out, 1 plug in. Third: there's not as great a need for bandwidth for audio as there is with video. Video cards need all that PCI(e) bandwidth. Audio doesn't. It's a relatively small amount of data. Of course--I think USB and firewire really don't have enough bandwidth for good scalability, but that's another discussion. But... what are you doing with it? You have different requirements for recording and for live sound. Live sound: just do it up. No one will likely notice. Live sound is my purpose. Mic-in looping-station and multieffects system (following the steps of Beardyman and his Beardytron_5000). But, sorry about not understanding your expresion (english is not my native language) What do you mean with just do it up, no one will likely notice? Should I buy it or no one will notice the difference? I think you mean I should... Just use the onboard sound. Live performance or installations can be much more tolerant of noise. You may have to tune your patches for the hardware, but don't give it too much thought and just do it up (a recommendation). I'm not familiar with Beardyman/tron_5000. That sounds cool. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Benefits of using an external soundcard?
I'm using my integrated soundcard: 00:14.2 Audio device: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA) (rev 40). I know that Pd is processing on CPU and I don't need more than 2 inputs and 2 outputs channels. So... I think that there's no need to buy an external one. Is there any benefit of using one? I know that this USB soundcard is not a very good one... but maybe it's good for my economy. What's your opinion? http://www.encore-usa.com/ar/support/ENMAB-8CM ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Benefits of using an external soundcard?
Hi Mario The number one reason for having an external sound card is noise isolation. The card's proximity to the power supply and motherboard are bad for EM noise. Also, a computer power supply and a good audio power supply for recording have much the same relationship--there's more noise in switching electronics. Next, there's the size constraints. You'd have a hard time adding all the connectors for a large number of channels on a card which plugs in to your PCI(e) slots. Third: there's not as great a need for bandwidth for audio as there is with video. Video cards need all that PCI(e) bandwidth. Audio doesn't. It's a relatively small amount of data. Of course--I think USB and firewire really don't have enough bandwidth for good scalability, but that's another discussion. But... what are you doing with it? You have different requirements for recording and for live sound. Live sound: just do it up. No one will likely notice. If you're planning on recording something on just 2 channels on the built-in sound card, keep in mind that your dynamic range will be pretty bad, even if you get a good pre-amp in the middle to take the most advantage of your range. You'd much rather have an external sound card with some adjustable analog pre-amps in the box. Chuck On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Mario Mey mario...@gmail.com wrote: I'm using my integrated soundcard: 00:14.2 Audio device: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA) (rev 40). I know that Pd is processing on CPU and I don't need more than 2 inputs and 2 outputs channels. So... I think that there's no need to buy an external one. Is there any benefit of using one? I know that this USB soundcard is not a very good one... but maybe it's good for my economy. What's your opinion? http://www.encore-usa.com/ar/**support/ENMAB-8CMhttp://www.encore-usa.com/ar/support/ENMAB-8CM __**_ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/** listinfo/pd-list http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
