Re: [PD] Data structures and click event
re: 'slow ass coders' usually takes me 15 years to get anything done, the things that are taking longer than 15 years will probably be wonderful. I will link to you something that will make you change your mind about 'being years behind everything else' 3:33:28 seconds of some /pd-0.45-4/bin$ ./pd the pdBerlin has some nice examples of using Chris Mccormick's lfo datastructure editor, I was weary of it before along with some GOP scaling stuff, but think I might give it a try. something is weird with this new (old junk keyboard, whenever I hold down more than 2 or 3 keys too fast , jack is glitching like the mouse dropouts. I am used to it by now and not one bit of that dreaded static makes it inside the wave file. I feel like I have crossed a hurdle yesterday #1 loadable filename list for scrolling through presets instead of searching with the dialog[ cant that dialog be used as a directory tool? I mean it allready does what everyone want's a directory listing to do, splits up the file name from the patch, etc... just make it an atom. #2 I somehow miraculously figured out how to count up a binary sequence like that is the oputput of the euclidian function for slick beats [1 0 1 0 1 1 0( and convert it to something that can be used as a mode for scales [2 2 1 2( my method does not yet work for sequencs that start with 0 -rotations but that doesen't bother me one bit. I ould have done it so easy with c, assembly language or even machine code but doing that graphically had my panties in a wad. *** A quotation by Hermann von Helmholtz Whoever in the pursuit of science, seeks after immediate practical utility may rest assured that he seeks in vain. Academic Discourse (Heidelberg 1862) JOC/EFR February 2006 The URL of this page is: http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/.../Helmholtz.htmlhttp://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Quotations/Helmholtz.html On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 6:55 PM, Miller Puckette m...@ucsd.edu wrote: I'll have to have a look and see what the ideas are... I don't know anything yet. Anyhow I think there are a couple of things that are higher priority: getting editing to be more user-friendly, and getting the IEM GUIs to behave better. And I'm afraid I can only write code at a fraction of the speed others can - so PD vanilla will always seem years behind everything else. cheers Miller On Sat, Mar 08, 2014 at 12:45:33AM +0100, João Pais wrote: On 03/05/2014 05:24 AM, Pierre Massat wrote: Dear list, First of all i'd like to say that i'm very impressed by the potential of data structures in Pd. I've always kind of ignored this feature and it's a pity because it's really worth diving into it.That being said I think that help and example patches are far from sufficient for beginners, and if it wasn't for Chris McCormick's s-abstractions I would have been able to really figure out how to use them (stuff like how to make an entire polygon draggable, how to use GOP with proper scaling, etc.). It's not just the documentation, it's the interface. Having to walk linked-lists of graphically unlinked objects is bad. Having to use boilerplate to find the head of a glist just to create a scalar is bad. I think Pd-l2ork is getting close to a release with my new data structure stuff in it. It's a first step at addressing some of these issues. and any prospects of that stuff making it into vanilla or pd-ext, for the non-unix users out there? ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures and click event
https://archive.org/details/isophi12moj upgraded ubuntustudio from 13.04 to 13.10 this morning without any noticeable problems yet. how does jack2 handle pulse audio and alsa now? somehow it stopped working together before the upgrade. might have misconfigured jack with the old pasuspender -- use/bin/jackd or something On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 3:57 PM, Billy Stiltner billy.stilt...@gmail.comwrote: re: 'slow ass coders' usually takes me 15 years to get anything done, the things that are taking longer than 15 years will probably be wonderful. I will link to you something that will make you change your mind about 'being years behind everything else' 3:33:28 seconds of some /pd-0.45-4/bin$ ./pd the pdBerlin has some nice examples of using Chris Mccormick's lfo datastructure editor, I was weary of it before along with some GOP scaling stuff, but think I might give it a try. something is weird with this new (old junk keyboard, whenever I hold down more than 2 or 3 keys too fast , jack is glitching like the mouse dropouts. I am used to it by now and not one bit of that dreaded static makes it inside the wave file. I feel like I have crossed a hurdle yesterday #1 loadable filename list for scrolling through presets instead of searching with the dialog[ cant that dialog be used as a directory tool? I mean it allready does what everyone want's a directory listing to do, splits up the file name from the patch, etc... just make it an atom. #2 I somehow miraculously figured out how to count up a binary sequence like that is the oputput of the euclidian function for slick beats [1 0 1 0 1 1 0( and convert it to something that can be used as a mode for scales [2 2 1 2( my method does not yet work for sequencs that start with 0 -rotations but that doesen't bother me one bit. I ould have done it so easy with c, assembly language or even machine code but doing that graphically had my panties in a wad. *** A quotation by Hermann von Helmholtz Whoever in the pursuit of science, seeks after immediate practical utility may rest assured that he seeks in vain. Academic Discourse (Heidelberg 1862) JOC/EFR February 2006 The URL of this page is: http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/.../Helmholtz.htmlhttp://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Quotations/Helmholtz.html On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 6:55 PM, Miller Puckette m...@ucsd.edu wrote: I'll have to have a look and see what the ideas are... I don't know anything yet. Anyhow I think there are a couple of things that are higher priority: getting editing to be more user-friendly, and getting the IEM GUIs to behave better. And I'm afraid I can only write code at a fraction of the speed others can - so PD vanilla will always seem years behind everything else. cheers Miller On Sat, Mar 08, 2014 at 12:45:33AM +0100, João Pais wrote: On 03/05/2014 05:24 AM, Pierre Massat wrote: Dear list, First of all i'd like to say that i'm very impressed by the potential of data structures in Pd. I've always kind of ignored this feature and it's a pity because it's really worth diving into it.That being said I think that help and example patches are far from sufficient for beginners, and if it wasn't for Chris McCormick's s-abstractions I would have been able to really figure out how to use them (stuff like how to make an entire polygon draggable, how to use GOP with proper scaling, etc.). It's not just the documentation, it's the interface. Having to walk linked-lists of graphically unlinked objects is bad. Having to use boilerplate to find the head of a glist just to create a scalar is bad. I think Pd-l2ork is getting close to a release with my new data structure stuff in it. It's a first step at addressing some of these issues. and any prospects of that stuff making it into vanilla or pd-ext, for the non-unix users out there? ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures and click event
On 03/07/2014 06:55 PM, Miller Puckette wrote: I'll have to have a look and see what the ideas are... I don't know anything yet. Well there's the important stuff: https://jwilkes.nfshost.com/mm.webm And then the less important stuff, like being able to patch 15 out of the 28 demos shown here: http://raphaeljs.com/ Essentially everything except the ones with gradients and text, but those features can be added later. It's generally not as high level as Raphael-- for example I ported the Raphael code to subpatches for the easing demo, and I'm just using [line] to do the animation. However, it would not be too hard on the Pd side to add an animate method. In fact that'd be quite efficient as you'd only be sending a single message over the socket and letting the GUI take care of the details. Also, I'm instantiating scalars inside object boxes. Since the user can send messages to update shape attributes straight to the parent draw command, this means he/she can do an end-run around pointers for prototyping. So essentially you have the ability to dynamically change visual attributes on the class level (i.e., the parentwidgetbehavior) and on the object level (for the specific scalar, as you can currently). There are still lots of details to get right, like handling groups properly, but the basic stuff is there. -Jonathan Anyhow I think there are a couple of things that are higher priority: getting editing to be more user-friendly, and getting the IEM GUIs to behave better. And I'm afraid I can only write code at a fraction of the speed others can - so PD vanilla will always seem years behind everything else. cheers Miller On Sat, Mar 08, 2014 at 12:45:33AM +0100, João Pais wrote: On 03/05/2014 05:24 AM, Pierre Massat wrote: Dear list, First of all i'd like to say that i'm very impressed by the potential of data structures in Pd. I've always kind of ignored this feature and it's a pity because it's really worth diving into it.That being said I think that help and example patches are far from sufficient for beginners, and if it wasn't for Chris McCormick's s-abstractions I would have been able to really figure out how to use them (stuff like how to make an entire polygon draggable, how to use GOP with proper scaling, etc.). It's not just the documentation, it's the interface. Having to walk linked-lists of graphically unlinked objects is bad. Having to use boilerplate to find the head of a glist just to create a scalar is bad. I think Pd-l2ork is getting close to a release with my new data structure stuff in it. It's a first step at addressing some of these issues. and any prospects of that stuff making it into vanilla or pd-ext, for the non-unix users out there? ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures and click event
On Mar 8, 2014, at 5:59 AM, pd-list-requ...@iem.at wrote: No. It requires a toolkit that has modern 2d features like affine transformations and opacity, etc. Pd-l2ork leverages Tkpath, a tcl/tk library. Other modern toolkits like Qt have their own 2d interfaces with the same features and could be used, but tcl/tk on its own does not. for the non-unix users out there? For OSX, one of the tcl/tk libraries-- Tkpath needs to be ported from Carbon to Cocoa. I have this about halfway done. I finally found the old QuickTime Carbon headers so I could port the old school font creation to CoreText. All of the old Quick Draw stuff is no longer on the Apple Developer docs, so it was a bit confusing at first. It will take a little while though since I dip into it now and then among everything else. I haven't investigated a Windows port yet but it's probably mostly a matter of setting up the proper compile environment more than anything else. Granted one would probably need to tweak pd.tk and L2ork's build script, but getting set up in Windows seems to be where most of the work is. (At least in my experience so far.) It shouldn't require too much beyond the current steps to build vanilla or extended on Windows: a mingw + msys enviornent. Tkpath uses an autoconf build system so it should be fine on Windows as long as you point it to the tcl/tk headers. The issue with OSX is that it simple hasn't been updated in a while but I imagine it's fine on Windows since MS moves very very slowly as far as moving to new APIs is concerned. Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures and click event
On 03/08/2014 12:46 PM, Dan Wilcox wrote: On Mar 8, 2014, at 5:59 AM, pd-list-requ...@iem.at mailto:pd-list-requ...@iem.at wrote: No. It requires a toolkit that has modern 2d features like affine transformations and opacity, etc. Pd-l2ork leverages Tkpath, a tcl/tk library. Other modern toolkits like Qt have their own 2d interfaces with the same features and could be used, but tcl/tk on its own does not. for the non-unix users out there? For OSX, one of the tcl/tk libraries-- Tkpath needs to be ported from Carbon to Cocoa. I have this about halfway done. I finally found the old QuickTime Carbon headers so I could port the old school font creation to CoreText. All of the old Quick Draw stuff is no longer on the Apple Developer docs, so it was a bit confusing at first. It will take a little while though since I dip into it now and then among everything else. Hey that's great! I can probably help once you get that part ready. One issue will be to making sure everything builds using a newer version of tcl/tk than what Pd-extended currently ships with. It might be good just to go ahead and try 8.6 since it has some new tk::mac goodies. I haven't investigated a Windows port yet but it's probably mostly a matter of setting up the proper compile environment more than anything else. Granted one would probably need to tweak pd.tk and L2ork's build script, but getting set up in Windows seems to be where most of the work is. (At least in my experience so far.) It shouldn't require too much beyond the current steps to build vanilla or extended on Windows: a mingw + msys enviornent. Tkpath uses an autoconf build system so it should be fine on Windows as long as you point it to the tcl/tk headers. The issue with OSX is that it simple hasn't been updated in a while but I imagine it's fine on Windows since MS moves very very slowly as far as moving to new APIs is concerned. There are a few other tk libs Pd-l2ork uses. I'm also assuming Tkpath doesn't have any crashers in Windows-- I haven't tried it yet. -Jonathan Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com http://danomatika.com robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures and click event
On 03/05/2014 05:24 AM, Pierre Massat wrote: Dear list, First of all i'd like to say that i'm very impressed by the potential of data structures in Pd. I've always kind of ignored this feature and it's a pity because it's really worth diving into it. That being said I think that help and example patches are far from sufficient for beginners, and if it wasn't for Chris McCormick's s-abstractions I would have been able to really figure out how to use them (stuff like how to make an entire polygon draggable, how to use GOP with proper scaling, etc.). It's not just the documentation, it's the interface. Having to walk linked-lists of graphically unlinked objects is bad. Having to use boilerplate to find the head of a glist just to create a scalar is bad. I think Pd-l2ork is getting close to a release with my new data structure stuff in it. It's a first step at addressing some of these issues.and any prospects of that stuff making it into vanilla or pd-ext, for the non-unix users out there?___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures and click event
I'll have to have a look and see what the ideas are... I don't know anything yet. Anyhow I think there are a couple of things that are higher priority: getting editing to be more user-friendly, and getting the IEM GUIs to behave better. And I'm afraid I can only write code at a fraction of the speed others can - so PD vanilla will always seem years behind everything else. cheers Miller On Sat, Mar 08, 2014 at 12:45:33AM +0100, João Pais wrote: On 03/05/2014 05:24 AM, Pierre Massat wrote: Dear list, First of all i'd like to say that i'm very impressed by the potential of data structures in Pd. I've always kind of ignored this feature and it's a pity because it's really worth diving into it.That being said I think that help and example patches are far from sufficient for beginners, and if it wasn't for Chris McCormick's s-abstractions I would have been able to really figure out how to use them (stuff like how to make an entire polygon draggable, how to use GOP with proper scaling, etc.). It's not just the documentation, it's the interface. Having to walk linked-lists of graphically unlinked objects is bad. Having to use boilerplate to find the head of a glist just to create a scalar is bad. I think Pd-l2ork is getting close to a release with my new data structure stuff in it. It's a first step at addressing some of these issues. and any prospects of that stuff making it into vanilla or pd-ext, for the non-unix users out there? ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures and click event
On 03/07/2014 06:45 PM, João Pais wrote: On 03/05/2014 05:24 AM, Pierre Massat wrote: Dear list, First of all i'd like to say that i'm very impressed by the potential of data structures in Pd. I've always kind of ignored this feature and it's a pity because it's really worth diving into it. That being said I think that help and example patches are far from sufficient for beginners, and if it wasn't for Chris McCormick's s-abstractions I would have been able to really figure out how to use them (stuff like how to make an entire polygon draggable, how to use GOP with proper scaling, etc.). It's not just the documentation, it's the interface. Having to walk linked-lists of graphically unlinked objects is bad. Having to use boilerplate to find the head of a glist just to create a scalar is bad. I think Pd-l2ork is getting close to a release with my new data structure stuff in it. It's a first step at addressing some of these issues. and any prospects of that stuff making it into vanilla or pd-ext, No. It requires a toolkit that has modern 2d features like affine transformations and opacity, etc. Pd-l2ork leverages Tkpath, a tcl/tk library. Other modern toolkits like Qt have their own 2d interfaces with the same features and could be used, but tcl/tk on its own does not. for the non-unix users out there? For OSX, one of the tcl/tk libraries-- Tkpath needs to be ported from Carbon to Cocoa. I haven't investigated a Windows port yet but it's probably mostly a matter of setting up the proper compile environment more than anything else. Granted one would probably need to tweak pd.tk and L2ork's build script, but getting set up in Windows seems to be where most of the work is. (At least in my experience so far.) -Jonathan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Data structures and click event
Dear list, First of all i'd like to say that i'm very impressed by the potential of data structures in Pd. I've always kind of ignored this feature and it's a pity because it's really worth diving into it. That being said I think that help and example patches are far from sufficient for beginners, and if it wasn't for Chris McCormick's s-abstractions I would have been able to really figure out how to use them (stuff like how to make an entire polygon draggable, how to use GOP with proper scaling, etc.). I m now stuck with a question. How can I identify the element which was just clicked ? I know that [struc] outputs the events, like click, selection and change, but I thought I could identify individual elements by their pointer id. It turns out that I get the same pointer for every element, although I created them sequentially (using [append]). (I guess something must be escaping me about pointers... I've noticed that within the same template, I get different pointers for elements on different y-levels, but the same pointer for all the element on the same y-level regardless of their x.) Cheers, Pierre ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures and click event
Nevermind, it's working the way I expected, the y value was being output and I thought that was the pointer's id. Cheers, Pierre. 2014-03-05 11:24 GMT+01:00 Pierre Massat pimas...@gmail.com: Dear list, First of all i'd like to say that i'm very impressed by the potential of data structures in Pd. I've always kind of ignored this feature and it's a pity because it's really worth diving into it. That being said I think that help and example patches are far from sufficient for beginners, and if it wasn't for Chris McCormick's s-abstractions I would have been able to really figure out how to use them (stuff like how to make an entire polygon draggable, how to use GOP with proper scaling, etc.). I m now stuck with a question. How can I identify the element which was just clicked ? I know that [struc] outputs the events, like click, selection and change, but I thought I could identify individual elements by their pointer id. It turns out that I get the same pointer for every element, although I created them sequentially (using [append]). (I guess something must be escaping me about pointers... I've noticed that within the same template, I get different pointers for elements on different y-levels, but the same pointer for all the element on the same y-level regardless of their x.) Cheers, Pierre ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures and click event
On 03/05/2014 05:24 AM, Pierre Massat wrote: Dear list, First of all i'd like to say that i'm very impressed by the potential of data structures in Pd. I've always kind of ignored this feature and it's a pity because it's really worth diving into it. That being said I think that help and example patches are far from sufficient for beginners, and if it wasn't for Chris McCormick's s-abstractions I would have been able to really figure out how to use them (stuff like how to make an entire polygon draggable, how to use GOP with proper scaling, etc.). It's not just the documentation, it's the interface. Having to walk linked-lists of graphically unlinked objects is bad. Having to use boilerplate to find the head of a glist just to create a scalar is bad. I think Pd-l2ork is getting close to a release with my new data structure stuff in it. It's a first step at addressing some of these issues. -Jonathan I m now stuck with a question. How can I identify the element which was just clicked ? I know that [struc] outputs the events, like click, selection and change, but I thought I could identify individual elements by their pointer id. It turns out that I get the same pointer for every element, although I created them sequentially (using [append]). (I guess something must be escaping me about pointers... I've noticed that within the same template, I get different pointers for elements on different y-levels, but the same pointer for all the element on the same y-level regardless of their x.) Cheers, Pierre ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures and their clickable area
On Mon, 2014-01-27 at 21:34 -0500, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: On 01/27/2014 05:35 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote: Hi I'm using a template consisting of a rectangle done with [filledpolygon] and a number [drawnumber] in it. While mouse clicks anywhere in the area of the rectangle are detected, it's only possible to change the number with the keyboard when I exactly click on the number. Is there a way to make the number catch the keyboard no matter where I click in the rectangle? One possibility is to make the hotspot bbox settable. Actually, something like this would be on my wishlist. Knowing it does not exist yet, I hoped for some kludge solution. Or maybe have a method to forward widgetbehaviors to another drawing command. Would certainly be interesting too, though having the hotspot area be configurable would make this less important. Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. Roman ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures and their clickable area
On Mon, 2014-01-27 at 21:34 -0500, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: On 01/27/2014 05:35 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote: Similarly, I'd like to be able to mouse-drag anywhere in the rectangle in order to change the value of the number. You could probably do it if you use a field variable to define hotspots on every 6x6 tile of the rectangle. But you'd also have to constrain movement of the rectangle by abusing the quanta syntax, something like (-whatever:whatever)(0:0). Interesting idea. That would presumably constrain the field variable's screen coordinates so that it doesn't move when you click-drag it. I'm not sure, if I fully understand the quanta syntax. I'd assumed that something like x(-30:30)(0:0) would not allow any movement, as you suggest. But it is still movable as if I'd use plain x (without quanta). When I use something like x(-30:30)(-1:1), it jumps between -30 and 30. Then use the same field variable for your [drawnumber]. Unfortunately, when using quanta, the variable doesn't return the input (my mouse movement), but the result. So the number jumps between -30 and 30 as well. Roman ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures and their clickable area
On Die, 2014-01-28 at 12:40 +0100, João Pais wrote: there might be a complicated and confuse way of doing it - by clicking the scalar, you activate a click message to the drawing window, that clicks in the drawed number. For that you would have to look around the click messages in the pd documents, which I didn't really understood so far. Can you intercept mouse events done in the canvas? Can you even do it without externals? Roman On 01/27/2014 05:35 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote: Hi I'm using a template consisting of a rectangle done with [filledpolygon] and a number [drawnumber] in it. While mouse clicks anywhere in the area of the rectangle are detected, it's only possible to change the number with the keyboard when I exactly click on the number. Is there a way to make the number catch the keyboard no matter where I click in the rectangle? That's not possible. Essentially what you want is to take a click from one draw command-- [filledpolygon]-- and map it or forward it to another-- [drawnumber]. Scalars don't give you any tools to hook in to a parent drawing command's widgetbehavior that way. Similarly, I'd like to be able to mouse-drag anywhere in the rectangle in order to change the value of the number. You could probably do it if you use a field variable to define hotspots on every 6x6 tile of the rectangle. But you'd also have to constrain movement of the rectangle by abusing the quanta syntax, something like (-whatever:whatever)(0:0). That would presumably constrain the field variable's screen coordinates so that it doesn't move when you click-drag it. Then use the same field variable for your [drawnumber]. I'm almost finished with some new drawing instructions for data structures in Pd-l2ork that implement a subset of the svg spec. I've got some mouseover/mouseout widgetbehaviors working, but still nothing particularly sophisticated in terms of mapping mouse/keyboard interaction to field variables. One possibility is to make the hotspot bbox settable. Or maybe have a method to forward widgetbehaviors to another drawing command. -Jonathan Any ideas? Roman ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures and their clickable area
On Mon, 2014-01-27 at 23:35 +0100, Roman Haefeli wrote: Hi I'm using a template consisting of a rectangle done with [filledpolygon] and a number [drawnumber] in it. While mouse clicks anywhere in the area of the rectangle are detected, it's only possible to change the number with the keyboard when I exactly click on the number. Is there a way to make the number catch the keyboard no matter where I click in the rectangle? To answer my own question: I had some thought about dealing with the 'capture the keyboard' part. When clicking the rectangle, I could use the pointer to route keyboards events from [keyname] to the clicked scalar. This way, I could even use 'Left' and 'Right' key events to move the scalar selection with the keyboard. This would allow to set a whole array of numbers by only using the keyboard. It's still not clear how to unselect the whole thing, when data entry is completed, though. I believe many interfaces allow de-select something by clicking anywhere nearby. Don't know if that is feasible in Pd. Using a key would be another option. The 'Escape' key, for instance. Roman ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures and their clickable area
On 01/29/2014 05:40 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote: On Mon, 2014-01-27 at 21:34 -0500, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: On 01/27/2014 05:35 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote: Hi I'm using a template consisting of a rectangle done with [filledpolygon] and a number [drawnumber] in it. While mouse clicks anywhere in the area of the rectangle are detected, it's only possible to change the number with the keyboard when I exactly click on the number. Is there a way to make the number catch the keyboard no matter where I click in the rectangle? One possibility is to make the hotspot bbox settable. Actually, something like this would be on my wishlist. Knowing it does not exist yet, I hoped for some kludge solution. It would literally be five minutes of dev time. But I'm not sure it's the ideal solution since often you want a hotspot to exceed the formal bounds of an object, and this wouldn't do that. Still, I'll code it up and see how it works. Or maybe have a method to forward widgetbehaviors to another drawing command. Would certainly be interesting too, though having the hotspot area be configurable would make this less important. Probably best to just fool around with Raphael.js or some such library to see what it does, and see what can be ported. -Jonathan Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. Roman ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures and their clickable area
there might be a complicated and confuse way of doing it - by clicking the scalar, you activate a click message to the drawing window, that clicks in the drawed number. For that you would have to look around the click messages in the pd documents, which I didn't really understood so far. João On 01/27/2014 05:35 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote: Hi I'm using a template consisting of a rectangle done with [filledpolygon] and a number [drawnumber] in it. While mouse clicks anywhere in the area of the rectangle are detected, it's only possible to change the number with the keyboard when I exactly click on the number. Is there a way to make the number catch the keyboard no matter where I click in the rectangle? That's not possible. Essentially what you want is to take a click from one draw command-- [filledpolygon]-- and map it or forward it to another-- [drawnumber]. Scalars don't give you any tools to hook in to a parent drawing command's widgetbehavior that way. Similarly, I'd like to be able to mouse-drag anywhere in the rectangle in order to change the value of the number. You could probably do it if you use a field variable to define hotspots on every 6x6 tile of the rectangle. But you'd also have to constrain movement of the rectangle by abusing the quanta syntax, something like (-whatever:whatever)(0:0). That would presumably constrain the field variable's screen coordinates so that it doesn't move when you click-drag it. Then use the same field variable for your [drawnumber]. I'm almost finished with some new drawing instructions for data structures in Pd-l2ork that implement a subset of the svg spec. I've got some mouseover/mouseout widgetbehaviors working, but still nothing particularly sophisticated in terms of mapping mouse/keyboard interaction to field variables. One possibility is to make the hotspot bbox settable. Or maybe have a method to forward widgetbehaviors to another drawing command. -Jonathan Any ideas? Roman ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Data structures and their clickable area
Hi I'm using a template consisting of a rectangle done with [filledpolygon] and a number [drawnumber] in it. While mouse clicks anywhere in the area of the rectangle are detected, it's only possible to change the number with the keyboard when I exactly click on the number. Is there a way to make the number catch the keyboard no matter where I click in the rectangle? Similarly, I'd like to be able to mouse-drag anywhere in the rectangle in order to change the value of the number. Any ideas? Roman ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures and their clickable area
On 01/27/2014 05:35 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote: Hi I'm using a template consisting of a rectangle done with [filledpolygon] and a number [drawnumber] in it. While mouse clicks anywhere in the area of the rectangle are detected, it's only possible to change the number with the keyboard when I exactly click on the number. Is there a way to make the number catch the keyboard no matter where I click in the rectangle? That's not possible. Essentially what you want is to take a click from one draw command-- [filledpolygon]-- and map it or forward it to another-- [drawnumber]. Scalars don't give you any tools to hook in to a parent drawing command's widgetbehavior that way. Similarly, I'd like to be able to mouse-drag anywhere in the rectangle in order to change the value of the number. You could probably do it if you use a field variable to define hotspots on every 6x6 tile of the rectangle. But you'd also have to constrain movement of the rectangle by abusing the quanta syntax, something like (-whatever:whatever)(0:0). That would presumably constrain the field variable's screen coordinates so that it doesn't move when you click-drag it. Then use the same field variable for your [drawnumber]. I'm almost finished with some new drawing instructions for data structures in Pd-l2ork that implement a subset of the svg spec. I've got some mouseover/mouseout widgetbehaviors working, but still nothing particularly sophisticated in terms of mapping mouse/keyboard interaction to field variables. One possibility is to make the hotspot bbox settable. Or maybe have a method to forward widgetbehaviors to another drawing command. -Jonathan Any ideas? Roman ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures: no object for freeing pointers?
I'd like one day to understand how to implement DS into a GOP, it's a bit triky, then on a single window it's possible to have the whole interface. I wrote something about it in a thread some weeks ago: http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2013-05/102819.html it's not really possible to do this in the context we're talking about because we don't know which scalar is modified when it's embedded into an array, a way would be about using y value, but in this case y is always = 0 ah, you mean an element instead of a scalar (although they're all scalars when drawn). the only way I would remember now would be use the [struct] output to trigger a comparation of the previous array with the current one, saved as lists. not optimal at all, but it can work if there aren't too many elements. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures: no object for freeing pointers?
Yes with visibility setting we can access an element of an array only, so each state can be stored, retrieved, replaced at will by accessing an element of te array... The matter is how accessing an element, idealy it would be a [nbx] where max value is the number of array elements, or a that's very easy, just get the number of elements from the array's pointer, and send it as [max $1( to the nbox (or whichever command defines the limits, I don't have Pd open). scalar but I don't how it's possible to fix limits to [drawnumber] I think not from the gui. Unless you enforce it programatically: route the change output from the [struct] in the template, and use it to force the maximum number to a [set] object. Like: [struct drawnumber...] | [route change] | [50( (assuming 50 is the current max number) | [set drawnumber...] In a parallel part, the current pointer gets and sets the maximum number of elements (now at 50) Look at the current help file for [drawnumber] for more details. De: João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com À: pd-list pd-list@iem.at, Patrice Colet colet.patr...@free.fr Envoyé: Jeudi 20 Juin 2013 11:09:26 Objet: Re: [PD] Data structures: no object for freeing pointers? One approach is to assign a variable for active/unactive scalars. And then use that variable to render the scalar visible/invisible. After a work session, the user can hide the active scalars, display the inactive ones, and select + delete these. It's still far from ideal, but a compromise. Envoyé: Mardi 11 Juin 2013 11:25:23 Objet: Re: [PD] Data structures: no object for freeing pointers? On Die, 2013-06-11 at 11:00 +0200, Jan Baumgart wrote: I've been building a sequencer with data structs. But now I've come to a dead end, because there seems to be no object, that let's you remove structs. The only way seems to be deleting them in the gui. It's still possible to put only one pointer and then arrays on it, then you can add or delete at the last array item, or it's possible to put an id at each array element and then remove the element id to delete, then it's possible to have undo's. pc ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures: no object for freeing pointers?
Colet Patrice - Mail original - De: João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com À: pd-list pd-list@iem.at, Patrice Colet colet.patr...@free.fr Envoyé: Vendredi 21 Juin 2013 10:00:58 Objet: Re: [PD] Data structures: no object for freeing pointers? Yes with visibility setting we can access an element of an array only, so each state can be stored, retrieved, replaced at will by accessing an element of te array... The matter is how accessing an element, idealy it would be a [nbx] where max value is the number of array elements, or a that's very easy, just get the number of elements from the array's pointer, and send it as [max $1( to the nbox (or whichever command defines the limits, I don't have Pd open). Without opening pd I think it's something like range $1 $2 and that's what I'm doing when controlling DS from GOP, it seems the best way to go.. I'd like one day to understand how to implement DS into a GOP, it's a bit triky, then on a single window it's possible to have the whole interface. scalar but I don't how it's possible to fix limits to [drawnumber] I think not from the gui. Unless you enforce it programatically: route the change output from the [struct] in the template, and use it to force the maximum number to a [set] object. Like: [struct drawnumber...] | [route change] | [50( (assuming 50 is the current max number) | [set drawnumber...] In a parallel part, the current pointer gets and sets the maximum number of elements (now at 50) Look at the current help file for [drawnumber] for more details. it's not really possible to do this in the context we're talking about because we don't know which scalar is modified when it's embedded into an array, a way would be about using y value, but in this case y is always = 0 De: João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com À: pd-list pd-list@iem.at, Patrice Colet colet.patr...@free.fr Envoyé: Jeudi 20 Juin 2013 11:09:26 Objet: Re: [PD] Data structures: no object for freeing pointers? One approach is to assign a variable for active/unactive scalars. And then use that variable to render the scalar visible/invisible. After a work session, the user can hide the active scalars, display the inactive ones, and select + delete these. It's still far from ideal, but a compromise. Envoyé: Mardi 11 Juin 2013 11:25:23 Objet: Re: [PD] Data structures: no object for freeing pointers? On Die, 2013-06-11 at 11:00 +0200, Jan Baumgart wrote: I've been building a sequencer with data structs. But now I've come to a dead end, because there seems to be no object, that let's you remove structs. The only way seems to be deleting them in the gui. It's still possible to put only one pointer and then arrays on it, then you can add or delete at the last array item, or it's possible to put an id at each array element and then remove the element id to delete, then it's possible to have undo's. pc ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures: no object for freeing pointers?
One approach is to assign a variable for active/unactive scalars. And then use that variable to render the scalar visible/invisible. After a work session, the user can hide the active scalars, display the inactive ones, and select + delete these. It's still far from ideal, but a compromise. Envoyé: Mardi 11 Juin 2013 11:25:23 Objet: Re: [PD] Data structures: no object for freeing pointers? On Die, 2013-06-11 at 11:00 +0200, Jan Baumgart wrote: I've been building a sequencer with data structs. But now I've come to a dead end, because there seems to be no object, that let's you remove structs. The only way seems to be deleting them in the gui. It's still possible to put only one pointer and then arrays on it, then you can add or delete at the last array item, or it's possible to put an id at each array element and then remove the element id to delete, then it's possible to have undo's. pc ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures: no object for freeing pointers?
Yes with visibility setting we can access an element of an array only, so each state can be stored, retrieved, replaced at will by accessing an element of te array... The matter is how accessing an element, idealy it would be a [nbx] where max value is the number of array elements, or a scalar but I don't how it's possible to fix limits to [drawnumber] De: João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com À: pd-list pd-list@iem.at, Patrice Colet colet.patr...@free.fr Envoyé: Jeudi 20 Juin 2013 11:09:26 Objet: Re: [PD] Data structures: no object for freeing pointers? One approach is to assign a variable for active/unactive scalars. And then use that variable to render the scalar visible/invisible. After a work session, the user can hide the active scalars, display the inactive ones, and select + delete these. It's still far from ideal, but a compromise. Envoyé: Mardi 11 Juin 2013 11:25:23 Objet: Re: [PD] Data structures: no object for freeing pointers? On Die, 2013-06-11 at 11:00 +0200, Jan Baumgart wrote: I've been building a sequencer with data structs. But now I've come to a dead end, because there seems to be no object, that let's you remove structs. The only way seems to be deleting them in the gui. It's still possible to put only one pointer and then arrays on it, then you can add or delete at the last array item, or it's possible to put an id at each array element and then remove the element id to delete, then it's possible to have undo's. pc ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Data structures: no object for freeing pointers?
I've been building a sequencer with data structs. But now I've come to a dead end, because there seems to be no object, that let's you remove structs. The only way seems to be deleting them in the gui. Am I missing something here? cheers, Jan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures: no object for freeing pointers?
On Die, 2013-06-11 at 11:00 +0200, Jan Baumgart wrote: I've been building a sequencer with data structs. But now I've come to a dead end, because there seems to be no object, that let's you remove structs. The only way seems to be deleting them in the gui. I think that is one of the limitations of data structures in Pd. You can clear a whole canvas, but not a single scalar, programmatically at least. The limitations of data structures have been discussed recently: http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2013-05/102808.html a bit less recent post: http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2011-04/088309.html Roman ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Data structures: Detect array changes
Hi all Actually, the same question applies to normal tables as well, but I know that plain Pd does not provide a way to detect changes, whereas Pd-l2ork does. What about data structure arrays? Is there some hidden way to detect changes? I can detect clicks, but I found nothing else. Roman ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Data Structures: Lower and upper bound for graphical arrays
On a related note, is there a way to limit y for arrays with mutable y? If there'd be a way to detect changes, this would be actually easy to implement. Roman ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures: no object for freeing pointers?
Envoyé: Mardi 11 Juin 2013 11:25:23 Objet: Re: [PD] Data structures: no object for freeing pointers? On Die, 2013-06-11 at 11:00 +0200, Jan Baumgart wrote: I've been building a sequencer with data structs. But now I've come to a dead end, because there seems to be no object, that let's you remove structs. The only way seems to be deleting them in the gui. It's still possible to put only one pointer and then arrays on it, then you can add or delete at the last array item, or it's possible to put an id at each array element and then remove the element id to delete, then it's possible to have undo's. pc ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data Structures: Lower and upper bound for graphical arrays
From: Roman Haefeli reduz...@gmail.com To: pd-list pd-list@iem.at Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 6:02 AM Subject: [PD] Data Structures: Lower and upper bound for graphical arrays On a related note, is there a way to limit y for arrays with mutable y? If there'd be a way to detect changes, this would be actually easy to implement. There isn't a way to detect changes. But you can limit y with the -y flag of [plot]: [plot -y y(0:100)(0:100) etc.] ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures: no object for freeing pointers?
I find the data structure deign extremely limited and have been thinking for years about how to make it more powerful. I have a rather weak idea about alowing deletion of individual items in lists that I'm planning to try out in the run-up to the next release - not that that can help you right now. (In addition to the manifold problems that others have noted I'll add more fundamental ones: fundamentally clunky pointer mechanism difficulty of making numerically accurate changes on visual data structures (except by escaping to a text represntation ala 'properties' :) cheers Miller On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 03:04:10PM +0200, Patrice Colet wrote: Envoyé: Mardi 11 Juin 2013 11:25:23 Objet: Re: [PD] Data structures: no object for freeing pointers? On Die, 2013-06-11 at 11:00 +0200, Jan Baumgart wrote: I've been building a sequencer with data structs. But now I've come to a dead end, because there seems to be no object, that let's you remove structs. The only way seems to be deleting them in the gui. It's still possible to put only one pointer and then arrays on it, then you can add or delete at the last array item, or it's possible to put an id at each array element and then remove the element id to delete, then it's possible to have undo's. pc ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data Structures: Lower and upper bound for graphical arrays
On Die, 2013-06-11 at 08:37 -0700, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: __ From: Roman Haefeli reduz...@gmail.com To: pd-list pd-list@iem.at Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 6:02 AM Subject: [PD] Data Structures: Lower and upper bound for graphical arrays On a related note, is there a way to limit y for arrays with mutable y? If there'd be a way to detect changes, this would be actually easy to implement. There isn't a way to detect changes. But you can limit y with the -y flag of [plot]: [plot -y y(0:100)(0:100) etc.] Ah, that is much more elegant than what seems impossible. Nice, thanks! Roman ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] data structures in abstractions
Hi, I noticed the gop doesn't work on pd-ext 0.42-5, but it works on 0.43-4 (w7). Another bug that was already there: if you drag one control point to outside the gop window, the struct doesn't respond to the mouse control anymore - although it still works properly. In my abstraction [jmmmp/bezier] I use messages to put the struct back into the gop boundaries. About the name and arguments always showing, it's a bit annoying. I think I made an extra [donecanvasdialog 1 -1 2 -20 120 120 -20 $1 $2 0 0, dirty 0( in [bezier] to enforce this choice. Maybe there's something broken in the code, that it doesn't let the option be taken? João Thanks Jonathan You are a magician. You said it works, so now it does no bugs. The only thing I can't get rid of is the datawindow name appearing in the graph on parent. No matter how many times I turn it off, once I save it and load it again, it comes back on. The name of the main graph on parent does not show, only of the subpatch I attached the abstraction here Cheers Eldad ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] data structures in abstractions
Hi, I don't have much time to look at patches now. You can see my abstractions [jmmmp/bezier], [jmmmp/swatch], to see if there's something you find interesting for your problem. They should be in pd-extended. Best, João Thanks Jonathan You are a magician. You said it works, so now it does no bugs. The only thing I can't get rid of is the datawindow name appearing in the graph on parent. No matter how many times I turn it off, once I save it and load it again, it comes back on. The name of the main graph on parent does not show, only of the subpatch I attached the abstraction here Cheers Eldad ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] data structures in abstractions
Hello all Is there a way to include a data structure graphical shape (filledpolygon for example) inside an abstraction's graph on parent? I saw that when trying to add a graph on parent in the data window it messes up everything. Thanks Eldad ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] data structures in abstractions
- Original Message - From: eldad tsabary tazberryd...@gmail.com To: pd-list@iem.at Cc: Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 1:48 PM Subject: [PD] data structures in abstractions Hello all Is there a way to include a data structure graphical shape (filledpolygon for example) inside an abstraction's graph on parent? I saw that when trying to add a graph on parent in the data window it messes up everything. Thanks Eldad Hi Eldad, You have to adjust the x range and y range in the canvas properties to be in agreement with the x and y size in the canvas properties. So if x size is 85, make the range 0 to 84, and do a similar process for the y. I think it's done this way for Put menu arrays where you would have a different y range depending on the situation. However, drawing instructions like [plot] give the ability to scale the values of a scalar to some screen pixel range so I don't get why this range business is part of the canvas properties (or the canvas class for that matter). -Jonathan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] data structures in abstractions
Great It works fairly well with graph on parent of the subpatch (datawindow) However, if I try to make the entire patch into an abstraction and have a graph on parent of the main window containing the graph from the subpatch it doesn't work so well. It seems to display in another patch but buggy, and it also doesn't allow me to drag and drop the polygon joints. Do you know if this should work and how? Many thanks again Eldad On 2012-11-27, at 3:09 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: - Original Message - From: eldad tsabary tazberryd...@gmail.com To: pd-list@iem.at Cc: Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 1:48 PM Subject: [PD] data structures in abstractions Hello all Is there a way to include a data structure graphical shape (filledpolygon for example) inside an abstraction's graph on parent? I saw that when trying to add a graph on parent in the data window it messes up everything. Thanks Eldad Hi Eldad, You have to adjust the x range and y range in the canvas properties to be in agreement with the x and y size in the canvas properties. So if x size is 85, make the range 0 to 84, and do a similar process for the y. I think it's done this way for Put menu arrays where you would have a different y range depending on the situation. However, drawing instructions like [plot] give the ability to scale the values of a scalar to some screen pixel range so I don't get why this range business is part of the canvas properties (or the canvas class for that matter). -Jonathan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] data structures in abstractions
- Original Message - From: eldad tsabary tazberryd...@gmail.com To: pd-list@iem.at Cc: Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 10:31 PM Subject: Re: [PD] data structures in abstractions G reat It works fairly well with graph on parent of the subpatch (datawindow) However, if I try to make the entire patch into an abstraction and have a graph on parent of the main window containing the graph from the subpatch it doesn't work so well. It seems to display in another patch but buggy, and it also doesn't allow me to drag and drop the polygon joints. Do you know if this should work and how? Many thanks again Eldad Works for me-- I don't get any difference between gop subpatch (or nested subpatches) vs. gop abstraction. I can click and drag the joints the same as before. What is buggy? -Jonathan On 2012-11-27, at 3:09 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: - Original Message - From: eldad tsabary tazberryd...@gmail.com To: pd-list@iem.at Cc: Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 1:48 PM Subject: [PD] data structures in abstractions Hello all Is there a way to include a data structure graphical shape (filledpolygon for example) inside an abstraction's graph on parent? I saw that when trying to add a graph on parent in the data window it messes up everything. Thanks Eldad Hi Eldad, You have to adjust the x range and y range in the canvas properties to be in agreement with the x and y size in the canvas properties. So if x size is 85, make the range 0 to 84, and do a similar process for the y. I think it's done this way for Put menu arrays where you would have a different y range depending on the situation. However, drawing instructions like [plot] give the ability to scale the values of a scalar to some screen pixel range so I don't get why this range business is part of the canvas properties (or the canvas class for that matter). -Jonathan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] data structures in abstractions
Thanks Jonathan You are a magician. You said it works, so now it does no bugs. The only thing I can't get rid of is the datawindow name appearing in the graph on parent. No matter how many times I turn it off, once I save it and load it again, it comes back on. The name of the main graph on parent does not show, only of the subpatch I attached the abstraction here Cheers Eldad randomPolygon.pd Description: Binary data randomPolygon-help.pd Description: Binary data On 2012-11-27, at 11:11 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: - Original Message - From: eldad tsabary tazberryd...@gmail.com To: pd-list@iem.at Cc: Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 10:31 PM Subject: Re: [PD] data structures in abstractions G reat It works fairly well with graph on parent of the subpatch (datawindow) However, if I try to make the entire patch into an abstraction and have a graph on parent of the main window containing the graph from the subpatch it doesn't work so well. It seems to display in another patch but buggy, and it also doesn't allow me to drag and drop the polygon joints. Do you know if this should work and how? Many thanks again Eldad Works for me-- I don't get any difference between gop subpatch (or nested subpatches) vs. gop abstraction. I can click and drag the joints the same as before. What is buggy? -Jonathan On 2012-11-27, at 3:09 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: - Original Message - From: eldad tsabary tazberryd...@gmail.com To: pd-list@iem.at Cc: Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 1:48 PM Subject: [PD] data structures in abstractions Hello all Is there a way to include a data structure graphical shape (filledpolygon for example) inside an abstraction's graph on parent? I saw that when trying to add a graph on parent in the data window it messes up everything. Thanks Eldad Hi Eldad, You have to adjust the x range and y range in the canvas properties to be in agreement with the x and y size in the canvas properties. So if x size is 85, make the range 0 to 84, and do a similar process for the y. I think it's done this way for Put menu arrays where you would have a different y range depending on the situation. However, drawing instructions like [plot] give the ability to scale the values of a scalar to some screen pixel range so I don't get why this range business is part of the canvas properties (or the canvas class for that matter). -Jonathan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Data Structures - Scaling Visual Display - (1:10)(2:200)
I can't remember where I've seen it but you can create a struct like so... [struct structname float x(1:10)(2:200)] ...such that x displays more tightly or loosely and with boundaries depending on the values in the brackets. But I can't figure how to enter the values properly! My question is, how do you set the values in the brackets? What do they refer to?! Is there any documentation available on this? Thanks, John. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data Structures - Scaling Visual Display - (1:10)(2:200)
There's a somewhat lame explanation in doc/4.data.structures/09.scaling.pd -- in brief, 1:10 in the example below says that the value of x is restricted to the range 1-10, and this range is linearly rescaled to values 2-200 in the coordinates of the patch. cheers Miller On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 06:50:21PM -0700, JF wrote: I can't remember where I've seen it but you can create a struct like so... [struct structname float x(1:10)(2:200)] ...such that x displays more tightly or loosely and with boundaries depending on the values in the brackets. But I can't figure how to enter the values properly! My question is, how do you set the values in the brackets? What do they refer to?! Is there any documentation available on this? Thanks, John. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] data structures- polygones with and without arrays
hi list, is there a way to have in one window both polygones with and without arrays? at least i can define two separate templates, but then the pointer gets confused. on pd-ext 0.42, Win XP. thanks for help. cheers mirko -- NEU: FreePhone 3-fach-Flat mit kostenlosem Smartphone! Jetzt informieren: http://mobile.1und1.de/?ac=OM.PW.PW003K20328T7073a ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] data structures- polygones with and without arrays
- Original Message - From: Mirko Maier mir...@gmx.de To: pd-list@iem.at Cc: Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 12:05 PM Subject: [PD] data structures- polygones with and without arrays hi list, is there a way to have in one window both polygones with and without arrays? at least i can define two separate templates, but then the pointer gets confused. on pd-ext 0.42, Win XP. thanks for help. If you use arguments like [pointer foo bar] it will send pointers for scalar foo and scalar bar to different outlets. -Jonathan cheers mirko -- NEU: FreePhone 3-fach-Flat mit kostenlosem Smartphone! Jetzt informieren: http://mobile.1und1.de/?ac=OM.PW.PW003K20328T7073a ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data Structures - Delete specific scalar?
Hi, I looked at your sequencer. I didn't play around with it, but I wonder if you are better off using an array instead of X scalars? As I suggested before, you can use a variable to decide if the data is active or not, it's not really necessary to erase it from the patch. Also on the graphical side, it should be possible to hide individual array elements using the -v command (or not? I didn't try yet, but it works with individual scalars). João Is there any message based way to delete a scalar? As I presume what people usually do is select the graphic in the datawindow and delete it this way. I need to do this without the graphical selection. I'm currently using data structures just as a multi-dimensional storage object (the graphical side doesn't concern me). I've developed [data/drip] and [data/filter] patches akin to [list-drip] and [list-filter]. I'm now looking to create an object where I can remove specific scalars based on whether or not their value fields match a certain condition (via [data/filter]). Thanks in advance as always, John. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Friedenstr. 58 10249 Berlin (Deutschland) Tel +49 30 42020091 | Mob +49 162 6843570 Studio +49 30 69509190 jmmmp...@googlemail.com | skype: jmmmpjmmmp ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data Structures - Delete specific scalar?
Thanks João, I'm looking into a brute force workaround whereupon I drip the data structure and copy it to a buffer structure but with the scalars that I want to delete filtered out - then I clone this buffer back to the original thus deleting certain scalars. This should work for my needs. Also as an aside, I'm just reading Frank's data structure tutorial patches (I'm a beginner to this topic!). I really think that these should be added to the official vanilla documentation. Cheers, John. - Original Message From: João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com To: JF sainti...@yahoo.com Sent: Sat, 23 April, 2011 1:38:27 Subject: Re: [PD] Data Structures - Delete specific scalar? unfortunately, that and many other basic things aren't possible with data-s yet. there are a couple ways you could use to circumvent this limitation: - use a field for active or unactive scalars, and set them to 0 or 1. then connect them to a spigot or similar, so that the other fields don't go through the rest of the patch. You can also connect this to the -v (?) field, to make this scalar invisible. - if you want to be radical, get the coordinates of your scalar, and using pd-messages, emulate the mouse's behaviour of going to edit mode, selecting the scalar and deleting it. Or write the st. puckette and tell him about putting this in. João Pais Is there any message based way to delete a scalar? As I presume what people usually do is select the graphic in the datawindow and delete it this way. I need to do this without the graphical selection. I'm currently using data structures just as a multi-dimensional storage object (the graphical side doesn't concern me). I've developed [data/drip] and [data/filter] patches akin to [list-drip] and [list-filter]. I'm now looking to create an object where I can remove specific scalars based on whether or not their value fields match a certain condition (via [data/filter]). Thanks in advance as always, John. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list --Friedenstr. 58 10249 Berlin (Deutschland) Tel +49 30 42020091 | Mob +49 162 6843570 Studio +49 30 69509190 jmmmp...@googlemail.com | skype: jmmmpjmmmp ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Data Structures - Delete specific scalar?
Is there any message based way to delete a scalar? As I presume what people usually do is select the graphic in the datawindow and delete it this way. I need to do this without the graphical selection. I'm currently using data structures just as a multi-dimensional storage object (the graphical side doesn't concern me). I've developed [data/drip] and [data/filter] patches akin to [list-drip] and [list-filter]. I'm now looking to create an object where I can remove specific scalars based on whether or not their value fields match a certain condition (via [data/filter]). Thanks in advance as always, John. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data Structures GOP and installing latest PD
I didn't know you could GOP data structures. This opens up a new world. Where is an up to date tutorial on using data structures? I've prepared a DS tutorial that some people liked. But since I've spent some time on it, I would prefer to be given the chance to present that more often before spreading it around as I usually do with my other stuff. There's also an old tutorial by F Barknecht around, but I don't know anymore where. João Pais ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data Structures GOP and installing latest PD
If you set the canvas size to 1,1 the subpatch shows up about the same size as the default array canvas size. I done some experimenting with ah yes, that makes sense. since I only use the structures in the gop, I never cared about searching it better. setting gop with pd-pdsubpatch and not donecanvasdialog but the other message with fewer arguments. Couldn't you just send the canvas a message to tell it whether it is a text atom or a graph? I looked through the code for quite a while but could not find how this could be done. I don't speak C, so can't really say anything. but I would say, you can't. and anyway, doesn't matter which object it is, it gets the same treatment I read somewhere that even if gui elements are not drawn in a subpatch they take use a lot of cpu. Is this true? How much processing goes on for gui elements when not visible? I don't have any hard data to back this up, but I think not, only displayed elements count to cpu (maybe hidden ones count a bit?). my only way to be sure would be to make a stress test. but maybe someone else can say more about tcl/tk. João ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data Structures GOP and installing latest PD
João,, The other message that does gop is coords. I do not know the complete message but this works [toggle] | [coords 600 600 700 700 1 1 $1( | [s pd-pd-arrayz] [pd pd-arrayz] clicking toggle displays or hides [pd pd-arrayz] your canvas and hradio on dsp is genious. I could not find bezier or swatch. I will have to update my pd. I did see the sliders it is pretty cool. thanks ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data Structures GOP and installing latest PD
On Mon, 4 Apr 2011, Billy Stiltner wrote: I read somewhere that even if gui elements are not drawn in a subpatch they take use a lot of cpu. Is this true? How much processing goes on for gui elements when not visible? Try it together with the Load Meter. If you can't see a consistent difference of percentage, it means that it's not important. Load Meter does not take into account the time spent in Tcl/Tk, but when a subpatch is hidden, this does not matter. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data Structures GOP and installing latest PD
The other message that does gop is coords. I do not know the complete message but this works [toggle] | [coords 600 600 700 700 1 1 $1( | [s pd-pd-arrayz] [pd pd-arrayz] clicking toggle displays or hides [pd pd-arrayz] I just tried around, and it looks like it does the same as donecanvasdialog, except the first 2 parameters, x+y canvas size. what you have as $1 also accept 2, which is the setting for GOP on+hide object name and arguments (quite useful). after that you can add 2 more numbers, for the x and y margins. Don't change the settings much while the subpatch is opened, or tcl/tk will stop responding that well (but it doesn't crash pd). João ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data Structures GOP and installing latest PD
--- On Tue, 4/5/11, João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com wrote: From: João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com Subject: Re: [PD] Data Structures GOP and installing latest PD To: Billy Stiltner billy.stilt...@gmail.com Cc: pd-list pd-list@iem.at, Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Date: Tuesday, April 5, 2011, 6:22 PM The other message that does gop is coords. I do not know the complete message but this works [toggle] | [coords 600 600 700 700 1 1 $1( | [s pd-pd-arrayz] [pd pd-arrayz] clicking toggle displays or hides [pd pd-arrayz] I just tried around, and it looks like it does the same as donecanvasdialog, except the first 2 parameters, x+y canvas size. what you have as $1 also accept 2, which is the setting for GOP on+hide object name and arguments (quite useful). after that you can add 2 more numbers, for the x and y margins. Don't change the settings much while the subpatch is opened, or tcl/tk will stop responding that well (but it doesn't crash pd). Not sure if it was mentioned, but I think donecanvasdialog sets the dirty flag and coords does not (if it matters to you). -Jonathan João ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data Structures GOP and installing latest PD
João Thanks for the zip. The abstractions are nice. I wonder if there is a way to keep from moving the control points out of bounds on the bezier. With a slider or numberbox it is easy just store a limit in an f and when the slider value changes check to see if it is beyond limit then do a delayed message to the slider to set the value to limit. You could even put a message to canvas label beyond the outer limit haha!. On 4/5/11, Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com wrote: --- On Tue, 4/5/11, João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com wrote: From: João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com Subject: Re: [PD] Data Structures GOP and installing latest PD To: Billy Stiltner billy.stilt...@gmail.com Cc: pd-list pd-list@iem.at, Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Date: Tuesday, April 5, 2011, 6:22 PM The other message that does gop is coords. I do not know the complete message but this works [toggle] | [coords 600 600 700 700 1 1 $1( | [s pd-pd-arrayz] [pd pd-arrayz] clicking toggle displays or hides [pd pd-arrayz] I just tried around, and it looks like it does the same as donecanvasdialog, except the first 2 parameters, x+y canvas size. what you have as $1 also accept 2, which is the setting for GOP on+hide object name and arguments (quite useful). after that you can add 2 more numbers, for the x and y margins. Don't change the settings much while the subpatch is opened, or tcl/tk will stop responding that well (but it doesn't crash pd). Not sure if it was mentioned, but I think donecanvasdialog sets the dirty flag and coords does not (if it matters to you). -Jonathan João ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data Structures GOP and installing latest PD
--- On Tue, 4/5/11, Billy Stiltner billy.stilt...@gmail.com wrote: From: Billy Stiltner billy.stilt...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PD] Data Structures GOP and installing latest PD To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com, pd-list pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, April 5, 2011, 8:36 PM João Thanks for the zip. The abstractions are nice. I wonder if there is a way to keep from moving the control points out of bounds on the bezier. With a slider or numberbox it is easy just store a limit in an f and when the slider value changes check to see if it is beyond limit then do a delayed message to the slider to set the value to limit. You can do that with data structures, too. You could even put a message to canvas label beyond the outer limit haha!. On 4/5/11, Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com wrote: --- On Tue, 4/5/11, João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com wrote: From: João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com Subject: Re: [PD] Data Structures GOP and installing latest PD To: Billy Stiltner billy.stilt...@gmail.com Cc: pd-list pd-list@iem.at, Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Date: Tuesday, April 5, 2011, 6:22 PM The other message that does gop is coords. I do not know the complete message but this works [toggle] | [coords 600 600 700 700 1 1 $1( | [s pd-pd-arrayz] [pd pd-arrayz] clicking toggle displays or hides [pd pd-arrayz] I just tried around, and it looks like it does the same as donecanvasdialog, except the first 2 parameters, x+y canvas size. what you have as $1 also accept 2, which is the setting for GOP on+hide object name and arguments (quite useful). after that you can add 2 more numbers, for the x and y margins. Don't change the settings much while the subpatch is opened, or tcl/tk will stop responding that well (but it doesn't crash pd). Not sure if it was mentioned, but I think donecanvasdialog sets the dirty flag and coords does not (if it matters to you). -Jonathan João ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data Structures GOP and installing latest PD
just like jonathan said, you can do that with data structures, just add the parenthesis scales to the variable declaration. I just don't leave the limit in, because you can still define extreme positions (for example, controling the points with messages instead of mouse click). João Thanks for the zip. The abstractions are nice. I wonder if there is a way to keep from moving the control points out of bounds on the bezier. With a slider or numberbox it is easy just store a limit in an f and when the slider value changes check to see if it is beyond limit then do a delayed message to the slider to set the value to limit. You could even put a message to canvas label beyond the outer limit haha!. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Data Structures GOP and installing latest PD
Hey I didn't know you could GOP data structures. This opens up a new world. Where is an up to date tutorial on using data structures? I'm about to install PD 0.43. I have a test4 version installed as well as pdx 0.42.5 and vanilla 0.42.5. I have a couple of libraries loaded with vanilla - GEM and GGE. How will the new version efect these installations? Also on LINUX I have with UBUNTU studio 10.10 pd 0.42.5 with all the exts available and then on puredyne I think my vanilla installation is messed up because I had to edit the config files to get pdL2ORK to run. Should be fine if I just replace the config files with the originals. Where is some god documentation on installing multiple versions of PD. What should I look out for when using so many different installations. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data Structures GOP and installing latest PD
--- On Mon, 4/4/11, Billy Stiltner billy.stilt...@gmail.com wrote: From: Billy Stiltner billy.stilt...@gmail.com Subject: [PD] Data Structures GOP and installing latest PD To: pd-list pd-list@iem.at Date: Monday, April 4, 2011, 9:37 PM Hey I didn't know you could GOP data structures. This opens up a new world. Where is an up to date tutorial on using data structures? I don't know of an up-to-date tutorial, but there is a tutorial in doc/4.data.structures. Some parts are out of date: * data is, in fact, persistent when using scalars. Data is saved along with the patch. (Similar to using a Put menu array and checking the box for save contents, except that with scalars they always save with the patch.) * the term template is used both to describe the subpatch in which the data structure ([struct] + any drawing instructions) is defined as well as the [struct] object itself. (I think [struct] used to be named [template]...) * some of the mouse-driven messages (e.g., click) didn't exist when those tutorials were written. For an up-to-date list see struct-help.pd in: http://pure-data.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/pure-data/trunk/doc/pddp/ (all the data structure related objects like [plot], [element], etc. have updated documentation if you use the pddp docs from the link above.) -Jonathan I'm about to install PD 0.43. I have a test4 version installed as well as pdx 0.42.5 and vanilla 0.42.5. I have a couple of libraries loaded with vanilla - GEM and GGE. How will the new version efect these installations? Also on LINUX I have with UBUNTU studio 10.10 pd 0.42.5 with all the exts available and then on puredyne I think my vanilla installation is messed up because I had to edit the config files to get pdL2ORK to run. Should be fine if I just replace the config files with the originals. Where is some god documentation on installing multiple versions of PD. What should I look out for when using so many different installations. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data Structures GOP and installing latest PD
I didn't know you could GOP data structures. This opens up a new world. Where is an up to date tutorial on using data structures? you can use gop with any graphical object. you can see some objects of my library, jmmmp at pd-extended/extra - like [sliders], [swatch] or specially [bezier]. there are some bugs, like in [bezier] if one of the control points gets out of the gop area, the data strucutres stop responding to the graphic input; but they still keep working. one other thing is the scaling, usually the data-s takes the whole canvas of the gop patch, but appears correctly. also, since data structures can't be saved using $0-variables, if you want a dynamic, multi-use patch, you might need to do some trickery, like generating the scalars with loadbang. etc. etc... maybe people will start using them now and then more often, if they see how useful they can be. João Pais ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data Structures GOP and installing latest PD
João and Jonathon, Thanks for the information. If you set the canvas size to 1,1 the subpatch shows up about the same size as the default array canvas size. I done some experimenting with setting gop with pd-pdsubpatch and not donecanvasdialog but the other message with fewer arguments. Couldn't you just send the canvas a message to tell it whether it is a text atom or a graph? I looked through the code for quite a while but could not find how this could be done. I read somewhere that even if gui elements are not drawn in a subpatch they take use a lot of cpu. Is this true? How much processing goes on for gui elements when not visible? ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures with $0?
wrote me saying that he's doing a real external for this, so that would be a better solution. Why is an external a better solution ? isn't a hard coded external always more efficient than an abstraction, specially if tcl/tk and gop are involved? I thought so. Anyway. I was inspired to make a bézier patch. It's an integer solution, so, for 17 points I run t from 0 to 16 instead of to 1, then I divide by pow(16,3) at the end to compensate. I could redo it in floats with almost the same number of boxes though. Here's the screenshot of the whole patch : http://gridflow.ca/gallery/bezier.png It takes only 9 (nine) objects to compute it. For large numbers of points, I can add a cache using two more boxes. Float requires two extra boxes (and editing some more). Using a different order doesn't require any repatching, just edit three or four boxes to change some numbers (I'm not counting the fact that you have to recreate the multi-numberbox at the right to have more rows). When I count the objects I'm not counting the multi-numberbox nor any of the objects on the left. The wire that goes up is carrying the polygons ready to be rendered. I have my patch in the other computer, can't send it now. my patch shows only a gop with the line (array) and 4 control points, which can be moved around with the mouse. it's also possible to dump the present coordinates of the points, and to feed others into the array. so it can be used graphically or with parameters. there are also a couple other details, and other things I want to do, but won't have the time for now. if I remember, I can send the current version tomorrow. João ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures with $0?
On Sun, 20 Jun 2010, João Pais wrote: isn't a hard coded external always more efficient than an abstraction, What's the speed that you need ? What's the speed that you want ? specially if tcl/tk and gop are involved? I thought so. After it's computed, you still has to render the result. Chances are that you'd still render it with Tcl/Tk and GOP. GOP itself does not introduce a noticeable slowdown in pd-vanilla nor pd-extended nor pd-devel. I have my patch in the other computer, can't send it now. my patch shows only a gop with the line (array) and 4 control points, which can be moved around with the mouse. I know, you sent it and I've seen it. I decided to concentrate on the formula, so I did it with numberboxes instead. It's possible to use the GF computation together with a DS rendering. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures with $0?
isn't a hard coded external always more efficient than an abstraction, What's the speed that you need ? What's the speed that you want ? I never measured it. what's the speed of pd? I guess as less speed as necessary, so that it doesn't bother other processes. also, in order to make it a sucessful abstraction, I have to put in extra code just to make sure that the data-s are created properly. although it's stable, it's always a drag. specially if tcl/tk and gop are involved? I thought so. After it's computed, you still has to render the result. Chances are that you'd still render it with Tcl/Tk and GOP. GOP itself does not introduce a noticeable slowdown in pd-vanilla nor pd-extended nor pd-devel. that might depend. some days ago I had a patch with 3 lines feeding into number boxes, and that alone made the cpu go up at least 10% (maybe more?). In my laptop trio I used a gop data-s abstraction to display the panning of the players, but replaced it with a gem patch. only that small module used ~ 20% cpu. in the end it's a waste, if you're trying to do that + 100 voice samples at the same time. the example from dmtod#* seemed to be a full external, that might save some computation time. he also had the dashed lines to the control points, it's a small plus. (I could also do them with data-s, but can't be bothered). I have my patch in the other computer, can't send it now. my patch shows only a gop with the line (array) and 4 control points, which can be moved around with the mouse. I know, you sent it and I've seen it. I decided to concentrate on the formula, so I did it with numberboxes instead. It's possible to use the GF computation together with a DS rendering. ah, I forgot. the latest version can be fed the precise coordinates for each point separately, just like yours - I just scaled everything from 0 to 1, since the patch is supposed to be a 0-1 transfer function. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures with $0?
On Fri, 18 Jun 2010, João Pais wrote: thanks, I'll try to put this in when I can. meanwhile dtmod His name is dmotd. wrote me saying that he's doing a real external for this, so that would be a better solution. Why is an external a better solution ? Anyway. I was inspired to make a bézier patch. It's an integer solution, so, for 17 points I run t from 0 to 16 instead of to 1, then I divide by pow(16,3) at the end to compensate. I could redo it in floats with almost the same number of boxes though. Here's the screenshot of the whole patch : http://gridflow.ca/gallery/bezier.png It takes only 9 (nine) objects to compute it. For large numbers of points, I can add a cache using two more boxes. Float requires two extra boxes (and editing some more). Using a different order doesn't require any repatching, just edit three or four boxes to change some numbers (I'm not counting the fact that you have to recreate the multi-numberbox at the right to have more rows). When I count the objects I'm not counting the multi-numberbox nor any of the objects on the left. The wire that goes up is carrying the polygons ready to be rendered. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures with $0?
thanks, I'll try to put this in when I can. meanwhile dtmod wrote me saying that he's doing a real external for this, so that would be a better solution. anyway since I started, I'll try to finish my work. [expr pow(1-$f1,3)*pow($f1,0)*$f2 + pow(1-$f1,2)*pow($f1,1)*$f3 + pow(1-$f1,1)*pow($f1,2)*$f4 + pow(1-$f1,0)*pow($f1,3)*$f5] doh, I forgot some multipliers. [expr 1*pow(1-$f1,3)*pow($f1,0)*$f2 + 3*pow(1-$f1,2)*pow($f1,1)*$f3 + 3*pow(1-$f1,1)*pow($f1,2)*$f4 + 1*pow(1-$f1,0)*pow($f1,3)*$f5] when you vary the order, the 1 3 3 1 sequence goes like this : 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 3 3 1 1 4 6 4 1 1 5 10 10 5 1 1 6 15 20 15 6 1 notice how the numbers for each order are made from the numbers for the previous order : each number is the one above plus the one to the left of the one above. you also get that same pattern of numbers doing various things such as the theory of coin-flipping, approximations of Gaussian blur, or if you expand pow(x+1,n), e.g. : pow(x+1,4) is the same as : 1*pow(x,0) + 4*pow(x,1) + 6*pow(x,2) + 4*pow(x,3) + 1*pow(x,4) Note that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal_triangle has some cool drawings and animations about it. (I especially like the fact that a fractal appears in that number pattern if you make many rows of it) _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801 -- Friedenstr. 58 10249 Berlin (Deutschland) Tel +49 30 42020091 | Mob +49 162 6843570 Studio +49 30 69509190 jmmmp...@googlemail.com | skype: jmmmpjmmmp ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Data structures with $0?
Hi, I was working on an abstraction with a gop data structure, and run into a problem. I noticed that after closing the patch and opening it again, the data structure wouldn't show, and the console would complain from a stale pointer. Finally I noticed that the problem came from the templates have $0- arguments, but these abstract arguments aren't saved by the structure itself. instead, it begins with e.g. 1072-. For now, the only way to make this work is the save the abstraction without the data structure, and create it at init time. I can't send a clear to the canvas, as it's an abstraction with gop, and the patch itself must go somewhere. (in the upper patch only the graphic interface is seen) But would it be possible/desirable that data structures with $0 in their templates also retain the abstract $0 symbol in the structures themselves? Or everytime a patch with such definitions is saved, there will be problems when it's open again. For example, arrays (which are a special case of data structures, afaik) can retain their $0 symbols with no problems. I think it would make sense for general data structures as well. An outdated version of the patch with the stale pointer problem was sent to the list some days ago, http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2010-06/079989.html. Btw, this is to control arrays with bezier curves, in case someone is interested. Does anyone know a general formula for bezier curves of the xth order? Best, João -- Friedenstr. 58 10249 Berlin (Deutschland) Tel +49 30 42020091 | Mob +49 162 6843570 Studio +49 30 69509190 jmmmp...@googlemail.com | skype: jmmmpjmmmp ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures with $0?
Does anyone know a general formula for bezier curves of the xth order? This seems interesting, but it was just a lame google bezier nth order search... Although, here it is: - http://anidea.com/technology/fun-with-bezier-curves/ Keep posting the results! :D -- Pedro Lopes contacto: j...@radiozero.pt website: http://web.ist.utl.pt/Pedro.Lopes ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures with $0?
Does anyone know a general formula for bezier curves of the xth order? This seems interesting, but it was just a lame google bezier nth order search... Although, here it is: - http://anidea.com/technology/fun-with-bezier-curves/ here's the latest patch, with cubic lines. I've seen that site while doing my research, but there was no formula there I couldn't understand (my math skills are below high school level). If you point me to a formula for an x order curve (in case such formula exists), I could implement it in the patch. I was also thinking of instead using as many cubic lines as possible (and match the end point with the first point of the next), but it might be simpler to get a general formula instead. João bezier-curve8.pd Description: application/puredata ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures with $0?
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010, João Pais wrote: Btw, this is to control arrays with bezier curves, in case someone is interested. Does anyone know a general formula for bezier curves of the xth order? It's explained in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A9zier_curve But by far, the most common are order 2 (Tcl/Tk, TrueType, etc) and order 3 (Illustrator, PDF, etc) and there's a reason for that. They become increasing complicated and hard to handle as the order increases, and I don't mean the computation time : even though computation time does increase a lot with the order, it's not as radical as the decrease of your ability to figure out the parameters to make the curve go where you want it to go, because it looks less predictable. So, usually, when they have more than four dots, people chain together pieces made from three or four dots each. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures with $0?
Btw, this is to control arrays with bezier curves, in case someone is interested. Does anyone know a general formula for bezier curves of the xth order? It's explained in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A9zier_curve yes, but since my math skills aren't much better than basic, all those equations and polynomials mean nothing to me. unless I get a clear equation (like the cubic one I used, which I found in another site), I can't go any further. if anyone wants to translate those funny drawings for me into something comprehensible, I'll put it in the patch. increase a lot with the order, it's not as radical as the decrease of your ability to figure out the parameters to make the curve go where you want it to go, because it looks less predictable. my purpose of doing this is basically to modulate a [line] (0-1), that is, with one direction. I never worked with higher than cubic curves (coreldraw etc are cubic), but since the purpose is to have a line that follows only one direction, would it become that unpredictable? So, usually, when they have more than four dots, people chain together pieces made from three or four dots each. I know. that's another thing I have to look at in the future, but don't have a) the time and concentration b) the necessity for it. although it would be better, because then the patch would be complete. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures with $0?
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010, João Pais wrote: yes, but since my math skills aren't much better than basic, all those equations and polynomials mean nothing to me. unless I get a clear equation (like the cubic one I used, which I found in another site), I can't go any further. if anyone wants to translate those funny drawings for me into something comprehensible, I'll put it in the patch. Then this means I'd have to give you one formula per order, or what ? The general formula goes like this : time goes from 0 to 1. to figure out the position for a time we call t, you do this for each point numbered i, you multiply the point by t, i times, and you multiply the point by (1-t), n-i times. It gives a pattern like : [expr pow(1-$f1,3)*pow($f1,0)*$f2 + pow(1-$f1,2)*pow($f1,1)*$f3 + pow(1-$f1,1)*pow($f1,2)*$f4 + pow(1-$f1,0)*pow($f1,3)*$f5] I put the pow(,1) and pow(,0) in the formula just to make the pattern obvious... pow($f1,1) = $f1 and pow($f1,0) = 1, so, they'd be skipped in a real formula. So, to adapt to 5 points, you'd add a $f6, the exponents in the first column would be 4,3,2,1,0, and in the second column they'd be 0,1,2,3,4. You can see that you can add any number of points like that. It's more difficult, though, to make a patch that supports all possible orders at once. One way you can do it is with a [until] or [list split] or [list-drip], to compute the formula for one point at a time, and a [f] [+] combination to add the results together, for example. All this because you can't make a single [expr] that supports any number of points. my purpose of doing this is basically to modulate a [line] (0-1), that is, with one direction. I never worked with higher than cubic curves (coreldraw etc are cubic), but since the purpose is to have a line that follows only one direction, would it become that unpredictable? CorelDraw curves do the same thing in two dimensions by doing the same formula twice, once for the x, once for the y. Everything funny that you can do with those curves in 2 dimensions has a reason that comes from the 1-dimensional case. If you setup your points to bounce back and forth in a big-order Bézier, you will get an overly jumpy curve. Here's an extreme example : http://demonstrations.wolfram.com/RungesPhenomenon/HTMLImages/index.en/popup_3.jpg this example is a Lagrange curve instead of a Bézier curve, but the jumpiness is a problem with all methods (some more sensitive than others). So, usually, when they have more than four dots, people chain together pieces made from three or four dots each. I know. that's another thing I have to look at in the future, but don't have a) the time and concentration b) the necessity for it. although it would be better, because then the patch would be complete. If I wanted a [vline] that did Bézier, I'd expect it to be chaining together pieces of Bézier that use three or four points at a time. Sort of like the difference between [tabread] and [tabread4], but with a better formula than [tabread4]. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data structures with $0?
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: [expr pow(1-$f1,3)*pow($f1,0)*$f2 + pow(1-$f1,2)*pow($f1,1)*$f3 + pow(1-$f1,1)*pow($f1,2)*$f4 + pow(1-$f1,0)*pow($f1,3)*$f5] doh, I forgot some multipliers. [expr 1*pow(1-$f1,3)*pow($f1,0)*$f2 + 3*pow(1-$f1,2)*pow($f1,1)*$f3 + 3*pow(1-$f1,1)*pow($f1,2)*$f4 + 1*pow(1-$f1,0)*pow($f1,3)*$f5] when you vary the order, the 1 3 3 1 sequence goes like this : 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 3 3 1 1 4 6 4 1 1 5 10 10 5 1 1 6 15 20 15 6 1 notice how the numbers for each order are made from the numbers for the previous order : each number is the one above plus the one to the left of the one above. you also get that same pattern of numbers doing various things such as the theory of coin-flipping, approximations of Gaussian blur, or if you expand pow(x+1,n), e.g. : pow(x+1,4) is the same as : 1*pow(x,0) + 4*pow(x,1) + 6*pow(x,2) + 4*pow(x,3) + 1*pow(x,4) Note that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal_triangle has some cool drawings and animations about it. (I especially like the fact that a fractal appears in that number pattern if you make many rows of it) _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Data Structures abs (was:Re: understanding graphics objects on canvas)
- João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com a écrit : Data structures can be a very powerful mean to graphically display/interact with the patch (to perform, display, compose, ...). But without some improvements they'll still be a hidden part of pd. And afaik, The algorithms we get when implementing data structures for managing large amount of informations in realtime, seems to be simplier and faster than using list objects, without plotting anything, but there are not a lot of examples. Didn't someone made a set of abs for this? Wouldn't it be nice to have a set of patches that eases the access to the struct, doing all the route-in, or a class of data structures objects like the list-abs? Having it for graphical stuff would be nice too. cp ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data Structures abs (was:Re: understanding graphics objects on canvas)
Sure, see Luke Iannini's ds-abs: http://pure-data.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/pure-data/trunk/abstractions/sfruit/ds-abs/ --- On Wed, 5/12/10, patko colet.patr...@free.fr wrote: From: patko colet.patr...@free.fr Subject: [PD] Data Structures abs (was:Re: understanding graphics objects on canvas) To: pd-list pd-list@iem.at Cc: João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com Date: Wednesday, May 12, 2010, 12:02 PM - João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com a écrit : Data structures can be a very powerful mean to graphically display/interact with the patch (to perform, display, compose, ...). But without some improvements they'll still be a hidden part of pd. And afaik, The algorithms we get when implementing data structures for managing large amount of informations in realtime, seems to be simplier and faster than using list objects, without plotting anything, but there are not a lot of examples. Didn't someone made a set of abs for this? Wouldn't it be nice to have a set of patches that eases the access to the struct, doing all the route-in, or a class of data structures objects like the list-abs? Having it for graphical stuff would be nice too. cp ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Data Structures abs (was:Re: understanding graphics objects on canvas)
great, thanks Patrice Colet - 06 32 66 03 57 - Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com a écrit : Sure, see Luke Iannini's ds-abs: http://pure-data.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/pure-data/trunk/abstractions/sfruit/ds-abs/ --- On Wed, 5/12/10, patko colet.patr...@free.fr wrote: From: patko colet.patr...@free.fr Subject: [PD] Data Structures abs (was:Re: understanding graphics objects on canvas) To: pd-list pd-list@iem.at Cc: João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com Date: Wednesday, May 12, 2010, 12:02 PM - João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com a écrit : Data structures can be a very powerful mean to graphically display/interact with the patch (to perform, display, compose, ...). But without some improvements they'll still be a hidden part of pd. And afaik, The algorithms we get when implementing data structures for managing large amount of informations in realtime, seems to be simplier and faster than using list objects, without plotting anything, but there are not a lot of examples. Didn't someone made a set of abs for this? Wouldn't it be nice to have a set of patches that eases the access to the struct, doing all the route-in, or a class of data structures objects like the list-abs? Having it for graphical stuff would be nice too. cp ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] data structures: variable array element + variable resolution?
I had a couple of questions about data structures: - I have an array based on template X. I wanted to make variations on the drawing of that array, by changing a variable in template X. The thing is, I can't access X when it's inside an array. Is there a way to get a pointer to the X templates inside an array? [element] ah, so if the float names are the same, the information gets through. The only thing is that since this is a parameter with the same value at all elements, I had to make a mechanism which goes through the whole array when something changes. If you don't care about the flickering, you could do something like what's attached. Notice that you have to name the template folder something different than the struct. thanks for your help. instead of trying to do a general patch for many uses, I've went with 3 versions of it, each for a different step value. maybe when data structures are more developed we can go further. João ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] data structures: variable array element + variable resolution?
--- On Mon, 3/15/10, João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com wrote: From: João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com Subject: [PD] data structures: variable array element + variable resolution? To: PD-List pd-list@iem.at Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 3:10 AM Hi, I had a couple of questions about data structures: - I have an array based on template X. I wanted to make variations on the drawing of that array, by changing a variable in template X. The thing is, I can't access X when it's inside an array. Is there a way to get a pointer to the X templates inside an array? [element] I also tried creating an extra instance of X and change the variable of that template. Unfortunately it had no effect on the same templates inside the array. Right, you're just changing the value for that particular scalar. - I have a variable being plotted with a step value of 1: [plot -y y(0:100)(-1:1)(1) ...]. I wanted to change the step value on the fly, but when I wrote (step) instead of (1), there was a parse error. Does that mean that the step is always the same at each template? Is isn't possible to assign a variable to the step value? As far as I can tell you are right, unfortunately. You can hack around this by taking the output from the [struct] and quantizing it yourself (i.e., [get] the y value, [div] by your desired step size, and [set] the y value, all the time keeping track of the real y value using the difference between the current and previous y). Oh, but if it's an array, you won't get output from a [struct] when you move the elements. So nevermind. If if isn't possible to do any of these operations, I might be able to circumvent the problem by deleting and creating new objects. Afaik it isn't possible to edit an object, it's necessary to cut it and create a new one. Am I correct, or is there a new possibility I don't know yet? If you don't care about the flickering, you could do something like what's attached. Notice that you have to name the template folder something different than the struct. -Jonathan Thanks, João Pais --Friedenstr. 58 10249 Berlin (Deutschland) Tel +49 30 42020091 | Mob +49 162 6843570 Studio +49 30 69509190 jmmmp...@googlemail.com | skype: jmmmpjmmmp ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list dynamic-ds.pd Description: Binary data ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] data structures: variable array element + variable resolution?
Hi, I had a couple of questions about data structures: - I have an array based on template X. I wanted to make variations on the drawing of that array, by changing a variable in template X. The thing is, I can't access X when it's inside an array. Is there a way to get a pointer to the X templates inside an array? I also tried creating an extra instance of X and change the variable of that template. Unfortunately it had no effect on the same templates inside the array. - I have a variable being plotted with a step value of 1: [plot -y y(0:100)(-1:1)(1) ...]. I wanted to change the step value on the fly, but when I wrote (step) instead of (1), there was a parse error. Does that mean that the step is always the same at each template? Is isn't possible to assign a variable to the step value? If if isn't possible to do any of these operations, I might be able to circumvent the problem by deleting and creating new objects. Afaik it isn't possible to edit an object, it's necessary to cut it and create a new one. Am I correct, or is there a new possibility I don't know yet? Thanks, João Pais -- Friedenstr. 58 10249 Berlin (Deutschland) Tel +49 30 42020091 | Mob +49 162 6843570 Studio +49 30 69509190 jmmmp...@googlemail.com | skype: jmmmpjmmmp ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] data structures: sugestions for future implmentation
Hi all and specially Mr. Puckette, I've been working more with data structures in a new patch. Although some nice things are possible, there are still some details that might give much more power to their possibilities. Most of these sugestions become only evident when one works with more than one template (struct) in the same patch. To know my context, I'm working now with a template with 5 arrays inside. Probably other templates might come with more or less arrays - or maybe in the end only one (super-)template, with as many activated arrays as necessary. My sugestions are: - be possible to set the parameters dynamically with a set ... message, like in many other objects. Because all objects get hard-coded with the first structure given, it's necessary to create many copies of the same code if you want to run the same operation through different templates (or even different arrays on the same template). E.g. if you use [tabread], you can use only the same object to read different tables. But if you use [get], [set], [element], ... you need as many objects as structs. And if something changes in the structure of your template, you need to make X changes to the patch. - automatic pointer output from the struct by clicking in the structure also not in edit mode. This allows a much easier compositional work on the fly. - a select 0/1 command given to a pointer, that would behave like a mouse selection in edit mode. or highlight, to show in which atom the pointer is. - a displace x y command. of course this can be already coded, but if it would be inside the struct object would be much faster - a previous command for a pointer, or even previous x and next x. being at that, maybe even a first and last as well. - to choose faster between different notes (data structure atoms) on my score, I'm assiging an id parameter to the struct, and these get reassigned each time the score is sorted. since each pointer already has its own identity, would it be possible to make this number/symbol transparent? then it would not be necessary to make more code to do the same function. an extra would be a flag to display/hide this number/symbol. actually I don't really know what's inside a (gpointer) - it looks like if instead of having number boxes, one would only get (float) when trying to see the result of an operation. - general [get] that doesn't depend on a struct, solely on common parameters. This can be used, for example, to make a list of all x and y (and w) elements of different templates/arrays - without making a copy for each template. - does the scale function work only for the display of data (with draw-objects)? If yes, I guess it would be advantageous to have this control already at the data level. And if not, how is it possible to use this feature to limit the values of a struct? (and not only of its representation) Can it be that there's a memory bug somewhere? Besides some crashes when templates get changed, also once was noticeable by looking at the properties window that structures kept parameters already deleted. (have no concrete example now to show) Best, João Pais -- Friedenstr. 58 10249 Berlin (Deutschland) Tel +49 30 42020091 | Mob +49 162 6843570 Studio +49 30 69509190 jmmmp...@googlemail.com | skype: jmmmpjmmmp ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] data structures variable plot x spacing
Hi, quick qestion: is there a way to make the x spacing in [plot] to be dynamic? Arrays in data structures is a bit new for me, and I'm not getting it for this. Also looked at the examples + Frank's tutorial, but couldn't find anything. best, João Pais -- Friedenstr. 58 10249 Berlin (Deutschland) Tel +49 30 42020091 | Mob +49 162 6843570 Studio +49 30 69509190 jmmmp...@googlemail.com | skype: jmmmpjmmmp ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] data structures variable plot x spacing
--- On Thu, 8/27/09, João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com wrote: From: João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com Subject: [PD] data structures variable plot x spacing To: PD-List pd-list@iem.at Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 10:48 PM Hi, quick qestion: is there a way to make the x spacing in [plot] to be dynamic? Arrays in data structures is a bit new for me, and I'm not getting it for this. Also looked at the examples + Frank's tutorial, but couldn't find anything. Sure. Use a variable instead of a static value, like [plot some_array 0 1 0 0 x-spacing], and make sure x-spacing is in the relevant [struct] object. Then use [set] to change x-spacing. Unfortunately, you still can't do x0(0:max-px)(0:max), or x0(0:100) (0:100)(q), though you could hack your way around the latter using the outlet from [struct]. -Jonathan best, João Pais --Friedenstr. 58 10249 Berlin (Deutschland) Tel +49 30 42020091 | Mob +49 162 6843570 Studio +49 30 69509190 jmmmp...@googlemail.com | skype: jmmmpjmmmp ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] data structures variable plot x spacing
Sure. Use a variable instead of a static value, like [plot some_array 0 1 0 0 x-spacing], and make sure x-spacing is in the relevant [struct] object. Then use [set] to change x-spacing. Unfortunately, you still can't do x0(0:max-px)(0:max), or x0(0:100) (0:100)(q), though you could hack your way around the latter using the outlet from [struct]. of course, was doing it in the wrong struct. thanks. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] data-structures short questions
Hi, after creating a structure (object) with append, is it possible to delete it? Or just better hide it with 0 on the drawing objects? (the patch is only to display data, not to be used by the user) João -- Friedenstr. 58 10249 Berlin (Deutschland) Tel +49 30 42020091 | Mob +49 162 6843570 jmmmp...@googlemail.com | skype: jmmmpjmmmp ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] data-structures short questions
I don't think it's possible to delete a ds object unless selecting it with the mouse (or maybe with the mouse msg). Notice that if you turn off drawing instructions by using an inlet to [filledcurve], for example, all other visible data structures will flash off and on again. I think that's why someone suggested a while back to just change the color to 999 instead. But if you have a lot of ds instances that you want to hide, use the -v flag, because there is no flashing and it's faster than changing the color. -Jonathan --- On Fri, 3/20/09, João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com wrote: From: João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com Subject: [PD] data-structures short questions To: PD-List pd-list@iem.at Date: Friday, March 20, 2009, 9:02 PM Hi, after creating a structure (object) with append, is it possible to delete it? Or just better hide it with 0 on the drawing objects? (the patch is only to display data, not to be used by the user) João --Friedenstr. 58 10249 Berlin (Deutschland) Tel +49 30 42020091 | Mob +49 162 6843570 jmmmp...@googlemail.com | skype: jmmmpjmmmp ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] data-structures short questions
I don't think it's possible to delete a ds object unless selecting it with the mouse (or maybe with the mouse msg). I thought so as well. so a better choice might be to hide it. Notice that if you turn off drawing instructions by using an inlet to [filledcurve], for example, all other visible data structures will flash off and on again. I think that's why someone suggested a while back to just change the color to 999 instead. But if you have a lot of ds instances that you want to hide, use the -v flag, because there is no flashing and it's faster than changing the color. you mean flash when the 1/0 command comes in? I was just trying that, but didn't notice anything - it was a very simple struct. what I'm thinking uses a maximum of 64 elements, so it's not that heavy. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] data-structures short questions
ah, now I know. it never happened to me, because I never used enough to make them visible. that's a nice example patch. btw, in order to control the display of the individual elements I used -v in the definitions of the base struct (that gets taken by the array). that allows for individual control, and it should be the only example missing from your file. Here's a patch to show what I mean. Even for a two-pixel drawing in a hidden subpatch, flashing happens when the visibility is toggled. So if you use any other patches with datastructures (or the same one twice as an abstraction) it will be noticeable, regardless of the drawing complexity. Btw: I notice in test.pd that if leave the first abstraction open and then close test.pd, I get two errors, like: error: .x9dd9e0: no such object error: .x9cc8a0: no such object (0.42-4, winxp sp3) exactly same specs here. I also notice another thing: my draw area is in a gop, and the patch is to be used as a gop. so, when using a gop ind the 2nd degree, the setting for hide object name and arguments of that area doesn't get saved. (no problem with the level above) ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] data-structures short questions
sorry, forgot to ask: and there's also no way of deleting an array without deleting the whole window with clear, is there? ah, now I know. it never happened to me, because I never used enough to make them visible. that's a nice example patch. btw, in order to control the display of the individual elements I used -v in the definitions of the base struct (that gets taken by the array). that allows for individual control, and it should be the only example missing from your file. Here's a patch to show what I mean. Even for a two-pixel drawing in a hidden subpatch, flashing happens when the visibility is toggled. So if you use any other patches with datastructures (or the same one twice as an abstraction) it will be noticeable, regardless of the drawing complexity. Btw: I notice in test.pd that if leave the first abstraction open and then close test.pd, I get two errors, like: error: .x9dd9e0: no such object error: .x9cc8a0: no such object (0.42-4, winxp sp3) exactly same specs here. I also notice another thing: my draw area is in a gop, and the patch is to be used as a gop. so, when using a gop ind the 2nd degree, the setting for hide object name and arguments of that area doesn't get saved. (no problem with the level above) -- Friedenstr. 58 10249 Berlin (Deutschland) Tel +49 30 42020091 | Mob +49 162 6843570 jmmmp...@googlemail.com | skype: jmmmpjmmmp ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] data-structures short questions
--- On Sat, 3/21/09, João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com wrote: From: João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com Subject: Re: [PD] data-structures short questions To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com, PD-List pd-list@iem.at Date: Saturday, March 21, 2009, 2:37 AM sorry, forgot to ask: and there's also no way of deleting an array without deleting the whole window with clear, is there? I believe that is the case. I tested -v for the elements, and didn't notice any difference. -vs for [plot] has a bug, however: it doesn't properly erase the objects until you hide and reopen the window, as in the attached patch. Additionally, arrays with graphical elements exhibit the same flashing problem I've been talking about. If you click-drag an element you'll see that all the elements after #49 start flashing. Add another drawing instruction to the template, and it's even worse: everything after the #4 flashes. -Jonathan ah, now I know. it never happened to me, because I never used enough to make them visible. that's a nice example patch. btw, in order to control the display of the individual elements I used -v in the definitions of the base struct (that gets taken by the array). that allows for individual control, and it should be the only example missing from your file. Here's a patch to show what I mean. Even for a two-pixel drawing in a hidden subpatch, flashing happens when the visibility is toggled. So if you use any other patches with datastructures (or the same one twice as an abstraction) it will be noticeable, regardless of the drawing complexity. Btw: I notice in test.pd that if leave the first abstraction open and then close test.pd, I get two errors, like: error: .x9dd9e0: no such object error: .x9cc8a0: no such object (0.42-4, winxp sp3) exactly same specs here. I also notice another thing: my draw area is in a gop, and the patch is to be used as a gop. so, when using a gop ind the 2nd degree, the setting for hide object name and arguments of that area doesn't get saved. (no problem with the level above) --Friedenstr. 58 10249 Berlin (Deutschland) Tel +49 30 42020091 | Mob +49 162 6843570 jmmmp...@googlemail.com | skype: jmmmpjmmmp array-flashing.pd Description: application/puredata ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Data Structures
Hello, I have another question about Data Structures. Why when we load a score with a message pd, like this : ; pd-data read file.txt the following message : warning: pd-template-toplevel: multiply defined warning: pd-template-element: multiply defined displays in the console? Using with Pd version 0.41-4 And Ubuntu Gutsy See the example 4.data.stuctures/06.file.pd in the help files Cheers Matohawk http://matohawkitongroup.free.fr http://aide.auditive.free.fr ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] data structures and library abstraction question
On Tue, 2007-01-30 at 15:07 -0800, Rich E wrote: Hi all, I just had a look at Frank's data structure tutorial, in which he suggests making a library abstraction for all structure templates. This seems like something I have to do for some patches I'm working on, but it would also be nice to just be able to check if the library is open, and if not, to open it. So the question is, is there a way to check if a certain abstraction is already open? if i understand right, what you want to do, implementing such a test mechanism is very easy. put this somewhere into your abstraction: [r isitthere] | [s yesitsthere] then you can easily check, if the library abs is open by sending a bang to [s isitthere]. when you receive a bang on [r yesitisthere], your abstraction is obviously open :-) roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] data structures and library abstraction question
Hallo, Rich E hat gesagt: // Rich E wrote: I just had a look at Frank's data structure tutorial, in which he suggests making a library abstraction for all structure templates. This seems like something I have to do for some patches I'm working on, but it would also be nice to just be able to check if the library is open, and if not, to open it. So the question is, is there a way to check if a certain abstraction is already open? You could use a so called singleton. I'm using a crudbe, but working one in sssad which you could just grab. It's a wrapper abstraction which you call with the name of another abstraction as argument. It will make sure, that the passed abstraction is created only the first time, the singleton is used. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] data structures and library abstraction question
Hi all, I just had a look at Frank's data structure tutorial, in which he suggests making a library abstraction for all structure templates. This seems like something I have to do for some patches I'm working on, but it would also be nice to just be able to check if the library is open, and if not, to open it. So the question is, is there a way to check if a certain abstraction is already open? Regards, Rich ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] data structures - get symbol?
This should work since 0.39, but as always with data structures: This is an area that's changing a lot with every new Miller-Pd so I'd recommend to use 0.40 instead. With that, you can [set] and [get] symbol fields as shown in attached patch. Setting them on creation with [append] doesn't seem to work yet, however, at least I couldn't make it work. thanks, it works fine on the latest version of pd-ext. I guess (I hope) that the next step would be implementing the symbols in [append], so that an extra [set -symbol] must not be used. Is Mr. Miller on the house? :) one more question though: I tried to apply the [get] help patch in my patch, but it didn't work. in the following picture, when I press traverse pd breaks up. on the other hand, like in your patch connecting directly [append] to the get pointer (through the inlet which is now disconnected) it works when the structures are created, but I can't make it work after that.attachment: get.jpg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] data structures - get symbol?
Hallo, João Miguel Pais hat gesagt: // João Miguel Pais wrote: one more question though: I tried to apply the [get] help patch in my patch, but it didn't work. in the following picture, when I press traverse pd breaks up. on the other hand, like in your patch connecting directly [append] to the get pointer (through the inlet which is now disconnected) it works when the structures are created, but I can't make it work after that. [traverse pd-SUBPATCH, bang( | [pointer] will output a pointer to the start of [pd SUBPATCH], but not a pointer to an actual scalar. You need to use [next( for that or directly: [traverse pd-SUBPATCH, next( | [pointer] Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] data structures - get symbol?
[traverse pd-SUBPATCH, next( | [pointer] hmm, komisch. I had also tried out with next (I thought I had sent the picture with it). the result is the same, pd quits when the [next( after the traverse comes. there's also another structure type on the same subpatch, but I guess that that shouldn't interfere, right? Joao ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
