Re: [PD] moog
Seems mostly to be definitely it! Yeah, thanks! Mostly coz the paper mentions zeros at 0.3 - and you can easily see that in the code ;) this seems to be getting less mysterious to implement, weee 2015-01-13 23:52 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com: This is probably the source for Gunter's Moog VCF Seems mostly to be definitely it! Yeah, thanks! 2015-01-13 23:48 GMT-02:00 Chris Clepper cgclep...@gmail.com: This is probably the source for Gunter's Moog VCF: https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~stilti/papers/moogvcf.pdf On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 8:37 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: Howdy, so David, kinda getting back from my break, thought I'd have anohter look at this... Seems the extended object is related to the 2004 Huovalainen paper, but I've failed to fully understand the code of moog.c and really match them. Anyone knows about Gunter's wherabouts these days? He could give us a hint. And yeah, I also saw some moog filter by Miller, which I should find back and check as well... Here's another cool thing I found on the web. http://www.acoustics.ed.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/AMT_MSc_FinalProjects/2012__Daly__AMT_MSc_FinalProject_MoogVCF.pdf So, by looking at the Huovalainen paper, seems doable to do it with [fexpr~]. In the end, it's just some 4th order filter, right? Have you checked MoogFF in Supercollider? cheers 2015-01-01 13:20 GMT-02:00 Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com: Yes please! Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com On Dec 31, 2014, at 4:43 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote: I'd like to understand pd's [moog~] object one day, and implement it with [fexpr~] or something. Maybe I'll do this other one as well. ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] moog
well, maybe I got excited too soon, not much else shows up in the paper that can be related to the moog code... Well, I tried making a first draft in a patch of what the code seems to be for me. You can find it attached if someone else cares to collaborate. But it is now getting quite mysterious/weird again. Though it seems is just some 4th order filter, nothing too crazy. cheers 2015-01-14 0:21 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com: Seems mostly to be definitely it! Yeah, thanks! Mostly coz the paper mentions zeros at 0.3 - and you can easily see that in the code ;) this seems to be getting less mysterious to implement, weee 2015-01-13 23:52 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com: This is probably the source for Gunter's Moog VCF Seems mostly to be definitely it! Yeah, thanks! 2015-01-13 23:48 GMT-02:00 Chris Clepper cgclep...@gmail.com: This is probably the source for Gunter's Moog VCF: https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~stilti/papers/moogvcf.pdf On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 8:37 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: Howdy, so David, kinda getting back from my break, thought I'd have anohter look at this... Seems the extended object is related to the 2004 Huovalainen paper, but I've failed to fully understand the code of moog.c and really match them. Anyone knows about Gunter's wherabouts these days? He could give us a hint. And yeah, I also saw some moog filter by Miller, which I should find back and check as well... Here's another cool thing I found on the web. http://www.acoustics.ed.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/AMT_MSc_FinalProjects/2012__Daly__AMT_MSc_FinalProject_MoogVCF.pdf So, by looking at the Huovalainen paper, seems doable to do it with [fexpr~]. In the end, it's just some 4th order filter, right? Have you checked MoogFF in Supercollider? cheers 2015-01-01 13:20 GMT-02:00 Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com: Yes please! Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com On Dec 31, 2014, at 4:43 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote: I'd like to understand pd's [moog~] object one day, and implement it with [fexpr~] or something. Maybe I'll do this other one as well. ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list moog.pd Description: Binary data ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] bandpass or resonant?
hey there - just to offer my armchair two cents on the subject... i am definitely no electrical engineer but to me Q, resonance and bandwidth are basically the same thing. this is commonly found in parametric EQs - there's not a lot of difference functionally between a fully parametric one band EQ (with gain/cut, frequency center and Q) as compared to something like a bandpass filter on a synth, although synth filtering is generally covering a much wider range to achieve a lot more sculpting possibilities, whereas mixer parametric bands are more limited in scope. the difference to me between a bandpass filter as traditionally applied in synthesis and a resonant bandpass filter is the additional setting of resonance basically. this acts as a bandwidth control which makes the peak more and more pronounced. in a synth a standard bandpass filter would usually have a single control for frequency, while the bandwidth and gain would be preset. adding a resonance/bandwidth control narrows the range of the band and eventually at high settings it can self oscillate. but the main issue is i believe the same mathematical /signal principle is involved, it's just that at low settings it sounds more subtle and high settings more dramatic. however since synth filter design is a bit of alchemy, i personally wouldn't be surprised to see unusual methods applied in the process to create a more robust sound, like ganging up bands, or possibly offsetting the resonant peak as compared to the center frequency. i'm totally guessing but i'm curious what things synth companies do or did to create their warm, fat sounds that still sounded different from maker to maker - even later on when they were using chips like the Curtis filters. scott On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 3:02 PM, Tilo Kremer p...@dadacafe.org wrote: Hello, On 13.01.2015 04:20, Martin Peach wrote: I was looking at circuit diagrams for analog synthesizers recently and noticed that the resonance control is nothing more than feeding some fraction of the output back to the input. With more feedback oscillation occurs at the cutoff frequency for any type of filter, highpass, bandpass or lowpass. Martin when i asked about the difference between the meaning of 'Q' in filters regarding a parametric EQ on a mixing console and the 'Q'/Resonance knob on [analogue synthesizer] filters, i was given an explanation along the lines of 'Q on a parametric eq will adjust the bandwith of the filter while the Q / resonance knob on the other one will adjust the amount of the feedback [back into its input]. Both however will have a similar impact: Reducing the available bandwith will lead to similar results as increasing the amount of data in the system.' hope that isn't too simplified, if it is, i recommend watching Aaron Lantermans lectures on filters on the web. hth, Tee ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] SDIF files in Pd
Hi Peter, On 13/01/15 17:02, Peter P. wrote: A quick search of the SVN external sources yields the sdiflists external, which I have not tried myself. Thanks for your reply. Indeed that seems to be the external I am looking for (another person in this list also pointed me in that direction), but it is compiled only for Linux 32-bit and I use a 64-bit distro. Compiling it is being a bit problematic so far, but I will give it another go later on. Take care, Gilberto ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] SDIF files in Pd
Hi Peiman, On 13/01/15 16:52, peiman khosravi wrote: From what I remember, sinusoids~ doesn't actually read sdif files directly. It accepts lists of frequencies and amplitudes. You should be able to design something like that in pure pd. (Look at the partial analysis example patch.) You are absolutely correct, it has been some long time since I last used SDIF on Max, so I actually mixed up things here. Indeed your description of [sinusoids~] is correct, and I can't quite remember which object was loading the SDIF files and feeding them to [sinusoids~] On 13/01/15 16:52, peiman khosravi wrote: I just came across this:http://mtg.upf.edu/people/eakin?p=Pd%20Stuff So it looks like you can read sdif files in pd. That looks great, indeed that is what I am looking for! The only problem I am having so far is that these externals are compiled for Linux 32-bit and I couldn't compile them myself in Linux 64-bit. I will give it one more try later on, let's see how it goes. Thanks and take care, Gilberto Agostinho ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Fw: [PD-dev] Mouse over editing Pd patch: correction
-d n flag just prints out debugging info to the console. I understand the performance gain of a single monster patch vs. a patch with many (possibly nested) signal abstractions. But I'm more interested in a single monster patch vs. a patch with GUI controls plus a _single_ monster subpatch that holds everything else. What is the performance hit by going that route? -Jonathan___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Miller's Moogfilter
On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Miller Puckette msp at ucsd.edu http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list wrote: * You can have mine... http://msp.ucsd.edu/tmp/moogfilter.tgz http://msp.ucsd.edu/tmp/moogfilter.tgz ** cheers ** Miller* Hmm, It ain't still there :P anyone has it? Billy? Miller? cheers ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] moog
This is probably the source for Gunter's Moog VCF: https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~stilti/papers/moogvcf.pdf On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 8:37 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: Howdy, so David, kinda getting back from my break, thought I'd have anohter look at this... Seems the extended object is related to the 2004 Huovalainen paper, but I've failed to fully understand the code of moog.c and really match them. Anyone knows about Gunter's wherabouts these days? He could give us a hint. And yeah, I also saw some moog filter by Miller, which I should find back and check as well... Here's another cool thing I found on the web. http://www.acoustics.ed.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/AMT_MSc_FinalProjects/2012__Daly__AMT_MSc_FinalProject_MoogVCF.pdf So, by looking at the Huovalainen paper, seems doable to do it with [fexpr~]. In the end, it's just some 4th order filter, right? Have you checked MoogFF in Supercollider? cheers 2015-01-01 13:20 GMT-02:00 Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com: Yes please! Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com On Dec 31, 2014, at 4:43 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote: I'd like to understand pd's [moog~] object one day, and implement it with [fexpr~] or something. Maybe I'll do this other one as well. ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] moog
This is probably the source for Gunter's Moog VCF Seems mostly to be definitely it! Yeah, thanks! 2015-01-13 23:48 GMT-02:00 Chris Clepper cgclep...@gmail.com: This is probably the source for Gunter's Moog VCF: https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~stilti/papers/moogvcf.pdf On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 8:37 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: Howdy, so David, kinda getting back from my break, thought I'd have anohter look at this... Seems the extended object is related to the 2004 Huovalainen paper, but I've failed to fully understand the code of moog.c and really match them. Anyone knows about Gunter's wherabouts these days? He could give us a hint. And yeah, I also saw some moog filter by Miller, which I should find back and check as well... Here's another cool thing I found on the web. http://www.acoustics.ed.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/AMT_MSc_FinalProjects/2012__Daly__AMT_MSc_FinalProject_MoogVCF.pdf So, by looking at the Huovalainen paper, seems doable to do it with [fexpr~]. In the end, it's just some 4th order filter, right? Have you checked MoogFF in Supercollider? cheers 2015-01-01 13:20 GMT-02:00 Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com: Yes please! Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com On Dec 31, 2014, at 4:43 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote: I'd like to understand pd's [moog~] object one day, and implement it with [fexpr~] or something. Maybe I'll do this other one as well. ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd symbol confusion
I begin to understand. Thank you! On 1/13/2015 4:19 PM, Claude Heiland-Allen wrote: On 13/01/15 23:51, David Medine wrote: how to pack the strings into symbols gensym() turns a string into a symbol (so pointer equality can be used instead of string comparison) note that there is no way to remove a symbol once it's added to the global symbol table. if you're doing a lot of string processing, perhaps do it all inside a pdlua or some other scripting external, instead of passing strings as symbols through pd patch cords. Claude ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] moog
Howdy, so David, kinda getting back from my break, thought I'd have anohter look at this... Seems the extended object is related to the 2004 Huovalainen paper, but I've failed to fully understand the code of moog.c and really match them. Anyone knows about Gunter's wherabouts these days? He could give us a hint. And yeah, I also saw some moog filter by Miller, which I should find back and check as well... Here's another cool thing I found on the web. http://www.acoustics.ed.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/AMT_MSc_FinalProjects/2012__Daly__AMT_MSc_FinalProject_MoogVCF.pdf So, by looking at the Huovalainen paper, seems doable to do it with [fexpr~]. In the end, it's just some 4th order filter, right? Have you checked MoogFF in Supercollider? cheers 2015-01-01 13:20 GMT-02:00 Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com: Yes please! Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com On Dec 31, 2014, at 4:43 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote: I'd like to understand pd's [moog~] object one day, and implement it with [fexpr~] or something. Maybe I'll do this other one as well. ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] bandpass or resonant?
I'm pending to say that there is no real distinction between Resonant filter and a resonator, and a bandpass can be implicitly thought of as a resonator. Here's what I also found in Julius' website https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/filters/First_Order_Complex_Resonators.html Pass the mouse cursor over the Resonator over the title First-Order Complex Resonators https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/filters/Two_Pole.html to see the popup (also attached). cheers 2015-01-13 1:20 GMT-02:00 Martin Peach chakekat...@gmail.com: I was looking at circuit diagrams for analog synthesizers recently and noticed that the resonance control is nothing more than feeding some fraction of the output back to the input. With more feedback oscillation occurs at the cutoff frequency for any type of filter, highpass, bandpass or lowpass. Martin On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 9:09 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: Nice I give an impression to be an expert, but filters is just something I've actually recently started studying :) I'm wondering if by resonant filter you mean the same thing as resonator filter? Now you got me... good question, and I'm not sure, haha. The link looks nice btw, will definitely check it. Thanks. So now I'm even more confused. Is resonant filter and resonator two different concepts? Maybe I'm having trouble with the english nomenclature and everything. To be honest and more detailed about the issues I'm encountering, I ask this based on another topic I was discussing with Julius Smith in the Supercollider list, but it went dead and I got no replies. In it I was asking if the object Resonz should really be called a Resonant filter, because it was just a bandpass filter in my opinion. Then Julius was mentioning how *A resonator is a special case of a passband filter having a nearly zero-width passband.* I see he used the term resonator and not Resonant Filter (as Resonz is described). So yeah, now I'm more confused... is resonator the same as resonant or what? But anyway, we can bring the discussion into the Pd world, and talk about the [reson~] object, as I will do later on. I was googling and saw how the term resonant filter could be used to describe a regular bandpass filter. And how the bandpass' center frequency could also be called resonant frequency. So they might be used in the same way... (accurately or not). Now here is my opinion. Just like a resonant low pass filter (the [lores~] object in Pd), the concept of resonance in a filter relates to how it adds gain around the resonant frequency. In the Audio-EQ-Cookbook (link: http://www.musicdsp.org/files/Audio-EQ-Cookbook.txt ) that presents formulas for biquad coeficients you have two different bandpass filters, lets call them BPF1 and BPF2. So, BPF2 has constant 0 dB peak gain, meaning it doesn't affect anything arounf the center frequency. Now BPF1 says it has constant skirt gain, peak gain = Q, meaning that the Q or bandwidth controls the gain of the filter. I consider BPF2 to be a regular bandpass filter, whereas BPF1, which adds gain for narrower bandwidths, seems to be a resonant one... (which makes me think Resonz shouldn't be described as resonant filter, as it's just a bandpass, or BPF2). Oh, there's another term around, the ringing filter, which seems to be another term for resonant filter. In SuperCollider they have Ringz, which was supposed to be the same as Resonz object (or a resonant filter for that matter), but they are different like the two different kinds of bandpass in the EQ Cookbook (Ringz = BPF1 / Resonz = BPF2). Coming into the Pd world we can talk about the [reson~] object. As the name implies, it is a resonant filter. But the helpfile says it is a Bandpass filter (damn). Funny enough, in Max, the [reson~] object is said to be indded a *Resonant Bandpass Filter*. So maybe we should update [reson~]'s help file in Pd... But the deal is: [reson~] is actually a bandpass like BFP2 or Resonz, but it has a separate parameter for the gain. Meaning it works basically as a bandpass filter, where changing the Q doesn't affect the gain. But you can also give it a boost or a cut with the gain parameter. By giving it a boost it would behave in a way that I'm considering to be an actual resonant filter. Now let me go ahead and share a patch that I'm writing for my computer music classes. It's about several filters that can be obtained with biquad. So I present Pd's vanilla filters such as [lop~], [hip~] and [bp~]. I also present externals like [lores~] and [reson~] and I do present all the filters from the Audio Eq Cookbook as well. It's in portuguese, and part of a big series of examples, but what the hell... By the way, I was also able to implement Resonz and Ringz as [biquad~] in Pd, but I don't have it on this example (but to hell with supercollider already, hehe). So there you can check the behaviour and differences that I've pointed.
[PD] SDIF files in Pd
Hello all, Does anyone here have any experience with SDIF files in Pure Data? When I used to patch in Max MSP, I used an object called *[sinusoids~]*, created by CNMAT, which would read SDIF files and resynthesize them. I found this very old thread about it http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2004-03/018592.html but I can't find any objects for Pure Data on CNMAT's website, only Max stuff. Does anyone know if it's still possible to handle SDIF files with Pd, and if yes then how to do it? Thanks a lot in advance. Best, Gilberto Agostinho ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] bandpass or resonant?
It sounds like the Resonz UGen in supercollider is exactly what Julius Smith is talking about in that description of the two-pole filter. But then there's the other supercollider filter UGens with resonant in the name, which seem more like what Martin was describing - RLPF (resonant low-pass filter) for example is a low-pass filter where you can adjust the resonance near the cutoff. I haven't played with this too much myself, but I'm guessing with the right Q value you could drive this to self-oscillation? Ultimately I think resonant is a general descriptive term for filters, that shouldn't be interpreted as a detail of implementation. On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 9:28 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: I'm pending to say that there is no real distinction between Resonant filter and a resonator, and a bandpass can be implicitly thought of as a resonator. Here's what I also found in Julius' website https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/filters/First_Order_Complex_Resonators.html Pass the mouse cursor over the Resonator over the title First-Order Complex Resonators https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/filters/Two_Pole.html to see the popup (also attached). cheers 2015-01-13 1:20 GMT-02:00 Martin Peach chakekat...@gmail.com: I was looking at circuit diagrams for analog synthesizers recently and noticed that the resonance control is nothing more than feeding some fraction of the output back to the input. With more feedback oscillation occurs at the cutoff frequency for any type of filter, highpass, bandpass or lowpass. Martin On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 9:09 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: Nice I give an impression to be an expert, but filters is just something I've actually recently started studying :) I'm wondering if by resonant filter you mean the same thing as resonator filter? Now you got me... good question, and I'm not sure, haha. The link looks nice btw, will definitely check it. Thanks. So now I'm even more confused. Is resonant filter and resonator two different concepts? Maybe I'm having trouble with the english nomenclature and everything. To be honest and more detailed about the issues I'm encountering, I ask this based on another topic I was discussing with Julius Smith in the Supercollider list, but it went dead and I got no replies. In it I was asking if the object Resonz should really be called a Resonant filter, because it was just a bandpass filter in my opinion. Then Julius was mentioning how *A resonator is a special case of a passband filter having a nearly zero-width passband.* I see he used the term resonator and not Resonant Filter (as Resonz is described). So yeah, now I'm more confused... is resonator the same as resonant or what? But anyway, we can bring the discussion into the Pd world, and talk about the [reson~] object, as I will do later on. I was googling and saw how the term resonant filter could be used to describe a regular bandpass filter. And how the bandpass' center frequency could also be called resonant frequency. So they might be used in the same way... (accurately or not). Now here is my opinion. Just like a resonant low pass filter (the [lores~] object in Pd), the concept of resonance in a filter relates to how it adds gain around the resonant frequency. In the Audio-EQ-Cookbook (link: http://www.musicdsp.org/files/Audio-EQ-Cookbook.txt ) that presents formulas for biquad coeficients you have two different bandpass filters, lets call them BPF1 and BPF2. So, BPF2 has constant 0 dB peak gain, meaning it doesn't affect anything arounf the center frequency. Now BPF1 says it has constant skirt gain, peak gain = Q, meaning that the Q or bandwidth controls the gain of the filter. I consider BPF2 to be a regular bandpass filter, whereas BPF1, which adds gain for narrower bandwidths, seems to be a resonant one... (which makes me think Resonz shouldn't be described as resonant filter, as it's just a bandpass, or BPF2). Oh, there's another term around, the ringing filter, which seems to be another term for resonant filter. In SuperCollider they have Ringz, which was supposed to be the same as Resonz object (or a resonant filter for that matter), but they are different like the two different kinds of bandpass in the EQ Cookbook (Ringz = BPF1 / Resonz = BPF2). Coming into the Pd world we can talk about the [reson~] object. As the name implies, it is a resonant filter. But the helpfile says it is a Bandpass filter (damn). Funny enough, in Max, the [reson~] object is said to be indded a *Resonant Bandpass Filter*. So maybe we should update [reson~]'s help file in Pd... But the deal is: [reson~] is actually a bandpass like BFP2 or Resonz, but it has a separate parameter for the gain. Meaning it works basically as a bandpass filter, where changing the Q doesn't affect the gain. But you can also give it a boost or a cut with the gain parameter. By giving it a boost it
Re: [PD] bandpass or resonant?
*Ultimately I think resonant is a general descriptive term for filters, that shouldn't be interpreted as a detail of implementation.* I guess you have a point there, and I was also driving to this conclusion. *It sounds like the Resonz UGen in supercollider is exactly what Julius Smith is talking about in that description of the two-pole filter.* Actually, the Resonz UGen is a Two Pole / Two Zero filter, which is very more closely related to [cyclone/reson~]. A Two-Pole only filter (no zeros) like the one Julius is describing is actually what the [bp~] object is! *But then there's the other supercollider filter UGens with resonant in the name, which seem more like what Martin was describing - RLPF (resonant low-pass filter) for example is a low-pass filter where you can adjust the resonance near the cutoff.* Yep, and this is also much like the [cyclone/lores~] object in Pd. Check that patch I sent for more detailed info on these filters. I've always assumed that a filter, in order to be called a resonant filter or a resonator - being it a low pass, a high pass or a band pass -, needed to boost/add gain to a particular cutoff frequency (in the case of lowpass and highpas - which is the case for [lores~] or RLPF) or add gain to some center frequency (in the case of a bandpass) - which is also called resonant frequency. The quote from Julius in that link - where he says *A resonator is a recursive filter that boosts signal amplitude at a particular frequency* - is in line with my assumption. But the concept of resonance in physics, in its utmost purity according to wikipedia, is that it is the tendency of a system to oscillate with greater amplitude at some frequencies than at others. Meaning that it doesn't really have to add gain to something, but only favor a frequency amongst others... In this context, a bandpass - in general - is a resonator... But it'd be cool if I could find a definitive word about this in the filter literature! Cheers 2015-01-13 13:16 GMT-02:00 Brian Fay ovaltinevor...@gmail.com: It sounds like the Resonz UGen in supercollider is exactly what Julius Smith is talking about in that description of the two-pole filter. But then there's the other supercollider filter UGens with resonant in the name, which seem more like what Martin was describing - RLPF (resonant low-pass filter) for example is a low-pass filter where you can adjust the resonance near the cutoff. I haven't played with this too much myself, but I'm guessing with the right Q value you could drive this to self-oscillation? Ultimately I think resonant is a general descriptive term for filters, that shouldn't be interpreted as a detail of implementation. On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 9:28 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: I'm pending to say that there is no real distinction between Resonant filter and a resonator, and a bandpass can be implicitly thought of as a resonator. Here's what I also found in Julius' website https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/filters/First_Order_Complex_Resonators.html Pass the mouse cursor over the Resonator over the title First-Order Complex Resonators https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/filters/Two_Pole.html to see the popup (also attached). cheers 2015-01-13 1:20 GMT-02:00 Martin Peach chakekat...@gmail.com: I was looking at circuit diagrams for analog synthesizers recently and noticed that the resonance control is nothing more than feeding some fraction of the output back to the input. With more feedback oscillation occurs at the cutoff frequency for any type of filter, highpass, bandpass or lowpass. Martin On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 9:09 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: Nice I give an impression to be an expert, but filters is just something I've actually recently started studying :) I'm wondering if by resonant filter you mean the same thing as resonator filter? Now you got me... good question, and I'm not sure, haha. The link looks nice btw, will definitely check it. Thanks. So now I'm even more confused. Is resonant filter and resonator two different concepts? Maybe I'm having trouble with the english nomenclature and everything. To be honest and more detailed about the issues I'm encountering, I ask this based on another topic I was discussing with Julius Smith in the Supercollider list, but it went dead and I got no replies. In it I was asking if the object Resonz should really be called a Resonant filter, because it was just a bandpass filter in my opinion. Then Julius was mentioning how *A resonator is a special case of a passband filter having a nearly zero-width passband.* I see he used the term resonator and not Resonant Filter (as Resonz is described). So yeah, now I'm more confused... is resonator the same as resonant or what? But anyway, we can bring the discussion into the Pd world, and talk about the [reson~] object, as I will do later on. I was googling and saw how the
Re: [PD] SDIF files in Pd
* Gilberto Agostinho gilbertohasn...@googlemail.com [2015-01-13 15:55]: Hello all, Does anyone here have any experience with SDIF files in Pure Data? When I used to patch in Max MSP, I used an object called *[sinusoids~]*, created by CNMAT, which would read SDIF files and resynthesize them. I found this very old thread about it http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2004-03/018592.html but I can't find any objects for Pure Data on CNMAT's website, only Max stuff. Does anyone know if it's still possible to handle SDIF files with Pd, and if yes then how to do it? Thanks a lot in advance. A quick search of the SVN external sources yields the sdiflists external, which I have not tried myself. ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] SDIF files in Pd
From what I remember, sinusoids~ doesn't actually read sdif files directly. It accepts lists of frequencies and amplitudes. You should be able to design something like that in pure pd. (Look at the partial analysis example patch.) I just came across this: http://mtg.upf.edu/people/eakin?p=Pd%20Stuff So it looks like you can read sdif files in pd. www.peimankhosravi.co.uk || RSS Feed || Concert News On 13 January 2015 at 14:53, Gilberto Agostinho gilbertohasn...@googlemail.com wrote: Hello all, Does anyone here have any experience with SDIF files in Pure Data? When I used to patch in Max MSP, I used an object called [sinusoids~], created by CNMAT, which would read SDIF files and resynthesize them. I found this very old thread about it http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2004-03/018592.html but I can't find any objects for Pure Data on CNMAT's website, only Max stuff. Does anyone know if it's still possible to handle SDIF files with Pd, and if yes then how to do it? Thanks a lot in advance. Best, Gilberto Agostinho ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] zero latency convolution
You can also check out William Brent's [convolve~] extern, which does partitioned convolution with live input. http://williambrent.conflations.com/pages/research.html On 1/13/15 6:59 AM, katja wrote: Hi, Low latency convolution can be implemented using [bsaylor/partconv~] and minimum phase filter kernel. See: http://forum.pdpatchrepo.info/topic/7660/10-band-eq-based-on-low-latency-fir-filtering This uses uniform partition size. I don't know of a Pd implementation with non-uniform partition size. Katja On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 3:43 PM, mr. markuese mr.marku...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, does anybody know if there already exist an external what’s able to convolute in a low cost way like the Gardner algorithm? btw: dissipation is interesting too :-), if somebody has already implemented that.. let me please know. Nice ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Fw: [PD-dev] Mouse over editing Pd patch
Yes, that's what I mean. Maybe I'm suggesting a new mode, where the mouse move only makes the proc routine run after it's stopped for perhaps 100ms.The reason is: abstracting the mega patch leads to a decrease in performance on iOs devices, and in 2012 I discovered that it abstractions that use audio ups the CPU load on any Pd patch. I think it's because the abstraction is taken to be a separate audio graph to calculate that is worked out before the CPU folds this into the master patch's audio input/output graph.Thus, I have to unwrap the patch (put all the audio processes into the master patch, without subpatches or abstractions) before it will run on the iPhone. Jonathan - will the -d command sent to Pd enable a lower rate of tk mouse motion events? Cheers,Ed Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad http://www.ninjajamm.com/ Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! http://sharktracks.co.uk/ On Wednesday, 7 January 2015, 20:18, Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi Ed,When you move the mouse on a canvas...1) A tk mouse motion event calls a proc (I can't remember the rate at which they are sent, but run Pd with -d 3 and watch how many motion messages are sent over the socket as you mouse around) 2) The proc sends a message [canvas you're mousing around in] motion blah blah blah to the Pd process 3) Pd forwards the message to the canvas you're mousing around on, by calling the motion method 4) canvas_motion leads to canvas_doclick, which leads to this:for (y = x-gl_list; y; y = y-g_next) So for each motion message, Pd searches through a linked list of objects on the canvas either until it finds one under the mouse or it runs out of objects. If you only have a [bng] and a subpatch on the canvas, it probably is insignificant-- it's just comparing two saved bbox coordinates to the mouse position. If you have your entire monster patch on a single canvas, just following all those pointers in the linked list is probably taking its toll on Pd's ability to compute a block of audio on schedule. -Jonathan On Wednesday, January 7, 2015 12:21 PM, Ed Kelly morph_2...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: On Wednesday, 7 January 2015, 11:55, Ed Kelly morph_2...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: What about this... When I am editing a huge patch like the Ninja Jamm patch, where everything is on the same level (i.e. as few sub-patches as possible) moving the mouse over the patch causes a CPU spike, regardless of whether I change, move or connect anything or not. Could this be changed? I don't know all the guts of Pd, but if you could just move around the mouse pointer withouthaving to wait for 20 seconds or so before you can do anything, it would save a lot of time. I think I heard once that any change to the patch means that Pd has to re-draw the entire graph. IMHO surely moving the mouse should not require this? I wait to be corrected! xEd Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad http://www.ninjajamm.com/ Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! http://sharktracks.co.uk/ ___ Pd-dev mailing list pd-...@lists.iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Fw: [PD-dev] Mouse over editing Pd patch: correction
Sorry, I mean't an increase in performance with the mega-patch (lower CPU load) and a decrease with subpatches and abstractions (higher CPU load).Ed Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad http://www.ninjajamm.com/ Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! http://sharktracks.co.uk/ On Tuesday, 13 January 2015, 16:26, Ed Kelly morph_2...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Yes, that's what I mean. Maybe I'm suggesting a new mode, where the mouse move only makes the proc routine run after it's stopped for perhaps 100ms.The reason is: abstracting the mega patch leads to a decrease in performance on iOs devices, and in 2012 I discovered that it abstractions that use audio ups the CPU load on any Pd patch. I think it's because the abstraction is taken to be a separate audio graph to calculate that is worked out before the CPU folds this into the master patch's audio input/output graph.Thus, I have to unwrap the patch (put all the audio processes into the master patch, without subpatches or abstractions) before it will run on the iPhone. Jonathan - will the -d command sent to Pd enable a lower rate of tk mouse motion events? Cheers,Ed Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad http://www.ninjajamm.com/ Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! http://sharktracks.co.uk/ On Wednesday, 7 January 2015, 20:18, Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi Ed,When you move the mouse on a canvas...1) A tk mouse motion event calls a proc (I can't remember the rate at which they are sent, but run Pd with -d 3 and watch how many motion messages are sent over the socket as you mouse around) 2) The proc sends a message [canvas you're mousing around in] motion blah blah blah to the Pd process 3) Pd forwards the message to the canvas you're mousing around on, by calling the motion method 4) canvas_motion leads to canvas_doclick, which leads to this:for (y = x-gl_list; y; y = y-g_next) So for each motion message, Pd searches through a linked list of objects on the canvas either until it finds one under the mouse or it runs out of objects. If you only have a [bng] and a subpatch on the canvas, it probably is insignificant-- it's just comparing two saved bbox coordinates to the mouse position. If you have your entire monster patch on a single canvas, just following all those pointers in the linked list is probably taking its toll on Pd's ability to compute a block of audio on schedule. -Jonathan On Wednesday, January 7, 2015 12:21 PM, Ed Kelly morph_2...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: On Wednesday, 7 January 2015, 11:55, Ed Kelly morph_2...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: What about this... When I am editing a huge patch like the Ninja Jamm patch, where everything is on the same level (i.e. as few sub-patches as possible) moving the mouse over the patch causes a CPU spike, regardless of whether I change, move or connect anything or not. Could this be changed? I don't know all the guts of Pd, but if you could just move around the mouse pointer withouthaving to wait for 20 seconds or so before you can do anything, it would save a lot of time. I think I heard once that any change to the patch means that Pd has to re-draw the entire graph. IMHO surely moving the mouse should not require this? I wait to be corrected! xEd Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad http://www.ninjajamm.com/ Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! http://sharktracks.co.uk/ ___ Pd-dev mailing list pd-...@lists.iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] SDIF files in Pd
Dan Eliis’ patch might help you http://www.ee.columbia.edu/~dpwe/e4896/practicals.html#prac04 ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] bandpass or resonant?
Hello, On 13.01.2015 04:20, Martin Peach wrote: I was looking at circuit diagrams for analog synthesizers recently and noticed that the resonance control is nothing more than feeding some fraction of the output back to the input. With more feedback oscillation occurs at the cutoff frequency for any type of filter, highpass, bandpass or lowpass. Martin when i asked about the difference between the meaning of 'Q' in filters regarding a parametric EQ on a mixing console and the 'Q'/Resonance knob on [analogue synthesizer] filters, i was given an explanation along the lines of 'Q on a parametric eq will adjust the bandwith of the filter while the Q / resonance knob on the other one will adjust the amount of the feedback [back into its input]. Both however will have a similar impact: Reducing the available bandwith will lead to similar results as increasing the amount of data in the system.' hope that isn't too simplified, if it is, i recommend watching Aaron Lantermans lectures on filters on the web. hth, Tee ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] bandpass or resonant?
sound on sound's synth secrets backs me up when I say resonant filters amplify bands of frequencies ;) shttp://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct99/articles/synthsecrets.htm not alone after all 2015-01-13 13:48 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com: This bit of the wikipedia article on resonance about Q ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resonance#Q_factor ) mentions a lot of what we read about Ringing Filter, and how a higher Q will make it ring longer... this is what you get from that bandpass in the EQ Cookbook that says it has constant skirt gain, peak gain = Q - or what I'm assuming to be a resonant filter by excellence or whatever... cheers 2015-01-13 13:38 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com: *Ultimately I think resonant is a general descriptive term for filters, that shouldn't be interpreted as a detail of implementation.* I guess you have a point there, and I was also driving to this conclusion. *It sounds like the Resonz UGen in supercollider is exactly what Julius Smith is talking about in that description of the two-pole filter.* Actually, the Resonz UGen is a Two Pole / Two Zero filter, which is very more closely related to [cyclone/reson~]. A Two-Pole only filter (no zeros) like the one Julius is describing is actually what the [bp~] object is! *But then there's the other supercollider filter UGens with resonant in the name, which seem more like what Martin was describing - RLPF (resonant low-pass filter) for example is a low-pass filter where you can adjust the resonance near the cutoff.* Yep, and this is also much like the [cyclone/lores~] object in Pd. Check that patch I sent for more detailed info on these filters. I've always assumed that a filter, in order to be called a resonant filter or a resonator - being it a low pass, a high pass or a band pass -, needed to boost/add gain to a particular cutoff frequency (in the case of lowpass and highpas - which is the case for [lores~] or RLPF) or add gain to some center frequency (in the case of a bandpass) - which is also called resonant frequency. The quote from Julius in that link - where he says *A resonator is a recursive filter that boosts signal amplitude at a particular frequency* - is in line with my assumption. But the concept of resonance in physics, in its utmost purity according to wikipedia, is that it is the tendency of a system to oscillate with greater amplitude at some frequencies than at others. Meaning that it doesn't really have to add gain to something, but only favor a frequency amongst others... In this context, a bandpass - in general - is a resonator... But it'd be cool if I could find a definitive word about this in the filter literature! Cheers 2015-01-13 13:16 GMT-02:00 Brian Fay ovaltinevor...@gmail.com: It sounds like the Resonz UGen in supercollider is exactly what Julius Smith is talking about in that description of the two-pole filter. But then there's the other supercollider filter UGens with resonant in the name, which seem more like what Martin was describing - RLPF (resonant low-pass filter) for example is a low-pass filter where you can adjust the resonance near the cutoff. I haven't played with this too much myself, but I'm guessing with the right Q value you could drive this to self-oscillation? Ultimately I think resonant is a general descriptive term for filters, that shouldn't be interpreted as a detail of implementation. On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 9:28 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: I'm pending to say that there is no real distinction between Resonant filter and a resonator, and a bandpass can be implicitly thought of as a resonator. Here's what I also found in Julius' website https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/filters/First_Order_Complex_Resonators.html Pass the mouse cursor over the Resonator over the title First-Order Complex Resonators https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/filters/Two_Pole.html to see the popup (also attached). cheers 2015-01-13 1:20 GMT-02:00 Martin Peach chakekat...@gmail.com: I was looking at circuit diagrams for analog synthesizers recently and noticed that the resonance control is nothing more than feeding some fraction of the output back to the input. With more feedback oscillation occurs at the cutoff frequency for any type of filter, highpass, bandpass or lowpass. Martin On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 9:09 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: Nice I give an impression to be an expert, but filters is just something I've actually recently started studying :) I'm wondering if by resonant filter you mean the same thing as resonator filter? Now you got me... good question, and I'm not sure, haha. The link looks nice btw, will definitely check it. Thanks. So now I'm even more confused. Is resonant filter and resonator two different concepts? Maybe I'm having trouble with the english nomenclature and everything. To be
[PD] pd symbol confusion
I am trying to output a list of strings (ie char **strings) from a list outlet. I have a t_atom *a_vec that is as long as the number of strings that I want to output and there is a max length to the strings. My question is, how do I pack the strings into the atom vector(a_vec)? It's easy with float data: for(i=0;iwhatever; i++) SETFLOAT(a_vec+i, data[i]); and then a_vec can be pushed out using outlet_list, and there it is. It seems like I need to use the SETSYMBOL macro to do the equivalent with strings, but I'm not sure how to pack the strings into symbols correctly. Is there a method or a macro for this? Thanks, David ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd symbol confusion
On 13/01/15 23:51, David Medine wrote: how to pack the strings into symbols gensym() turns a string into a symbol (so pointer equality can be used instead of string comparison) note that there is no way to remove a symbol once it's added to the global symbol table. if you're doing a lot of string processing, perhaps do it all inside a pdlua or some other scripting external, instead of passing strings as symbols through pd patch cords. Claude -- http://mathr.co.uk ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
