Re: [PD] Update cyclone maintenance
Hi Alexandre, Sorry, I had missed your message, most active Pd-time had gone into helping to improve the build system for cyclone and pd-externals in general. The concept of hot and cold inlets appears to apply to messages, not signals. Sah~ appears to work as described in the Max5 documentation. I'll improve the help-patch. Consider it a good thing Pd can confuse you. It would get boring if it didn't :-). Greetings, Fred Jan On 2015-06-05 03:42 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote: please do not consider my previous message, I clearly had no idea what I was talking about and was just really confused :) sorry 2015-05-26 18:12 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com mailto:por...@gmail.com: By the way, [sah~] in Pd has the inlets switched. In max, the left one is supposed to trigger the sample and hold, unlike [samphold~] in Pd. But [sah~] is just like [samphold~]. In order for it to be a proper clone of max, that'd need to be corrected, not sure if it happened already. 2015-05-24 23:18 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com mailto:por...@gmail.com: for instance, it says Symbol argument sets name of table to play from. Additional int argument after that sets sample offset into the table (default 0) well, I put an int argument after that, and it doesn't really work at all! 2015-05-24 23:05 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com mailto:por...@gmail.com: hi fred, how's it going? I was checking [cycle~] and it seems it's not behaving much closely like in max, have you checked that? I'm saying more about its behaviour as a wavetable, where it can offsett the table and everything. I can't find that list of bugs you were working on, where is it? How is it anyway? thanks cheers 2015-01-23 14:25 GMT-02:00 Fred Jan Kraan fjkr...@xs4all.nl mailto:fjkr...@xs4all.nl: Hi All, At http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/digaud/puredata/cyclone/index.html a new set of revised help-patches for the cyclone library are available. Most previous remarks are applied. There are now previews of the Windows binaries and MacOSX. The latter is build on MacOSX 10.5 with XCode 3.14, so should have executables for PPC, i386 and i386_64. I confirmed the last two are working (10.5 and 10.8). It remains in progress, in the task list are the fixed and remaining issues. Fred Jan ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Gestural Interaction and Music PhD Studentship
An opportunity for a fully-funded PhD studentship on Gestural Interaction and Music is currently being offered by the Department of Computer Science and Creative Technologies at UWE Bristol. http://www1.uwe.ac.uk/research/postgraduateresearchstudy/studentshipopportunities/gesturalinteractionandmusic.aspx Andras ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] installing pd libs on debian / OlinuXino board (wa: solimex board)
Hmmm - wheezy possibly not good. You did say you built it from source anyway right? If so shouldn't matter. Does seem like you're going to have to build the necessary externals. How's it going with that? My memory is Cyclone could be a pain. On 5 June 2015 at 16:14, Raphaël Ilias phae.il...@gmail.com wrote: To answer Katja Julian, i don't know which debian version is distributed, Olimex call it : A20-OLinuXino-Lime Debian with kernel 3.4.90+ release 3 and here is my etc/apt/source.list : deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy main contrib non-free deb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy main contrib non-free deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy-updates main contrib non-free deb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy-updates main contrib non-free deb http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main contrib non-free deb-src http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main contrib non-free deb http://apt.puredata.info/releases stable main also, about that : found a working solution in this thread : http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2015-01/109000.html so i made $ apt-get build-dep puredata apparently you also need to do ./autogen again maybe obvious for many but... and then $ ./configure --enable-alsa $ make $ sudo make install thanks everyone for help ! Raphaël ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [PD-announce] Pure Data Destruction educational article
I've written an article explaining a patch that I coded to make some odd/glitchy live tweakable sounds: Article: http://designingsound.org/2015/06/pure-data-destruction/ SoundCloud Examples: http://soundcloud.com/sovga/sets/pure-data-destruction (Warning! loud sound volumes / digital distortions) Pd Patch: bit.ly/ PdDestruction It might be a good reference for people wanting to learn more about Pd as it is a fairly minimal patch so feel free to use it in your own course material if you'd like. -Leonard Paul --- School of Video Game Audio Logo Learn game audio online. Web: SoVGA.com | Twitter : @ SchoolGameAudio | Google+ : bit .ly/SoVGA-G | LinkedIn : bit. ly/SoVGA-L | Weibo: @ SchoolGameAudio | YouTube : bit.ly/YReelList | Vi meo: bit.ly/VReelList ___ Pd-announce mailing list pd-annou...@lists.iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Update cyclone maintenance
The concept of hot and cold inlets appears to apply to messages, not signals Surely, it's not that what confused me. Actually Max did confuse me I guess, I thought I found a different behavior in [sah~] over there. But I actually hadn't understood how it worked. Sorry... it all makes sense now and [sah~] is indeed working in the same way! Anyway, like I asked before, I can't find that list of bugs you were working on, where is it? Did you see what I mentioned about [cycle~]? Now, since the maintenance of Extended seems to be dead, I guess the point of updating cyclone is to make it available for download. I've always had the idea it was available for download somewhere, but it isn't. There's the download version from the package that was out in 0.42 extended in puredata.info and that's it. So, where's that page with the bug list that you were working on? I'd like to check it out. And when do you think we could have it for download in the puredata.info site (or somewhere else as well)? Can I get the package as it is now and test it? thanks 2015-06-05 3:29 GMT-03:00 Fred Jan Kraan fjkr...@xs4all.nl: Hi Alexandre, Sorry, I had missed your message, most active Pd-time had gone into helping to improve the build system for cyclone and pd-externals in general. The concept of hot and cold inlets appears to apply to messages, not signals. Sah~ appears to work as described in the Max5 documentation. I'll improve the help-patch. Consider it a good thing Pd can confuse you. It would get boring if it didn't :-). Greetings, Fred Jan On 2015-06-05 03:42 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote: please do not consider my previous message, I clearly had no idea what I was talking about and was just really confused :) sorry 2015-05-26 18:12 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com mailto:por...@gmail.com: By the way, [sah~] in Pd has the inlets switched. In max, the left one is supposed to trigger the sample and hold, unlike [samphold~] in Pd. But [sah~] is just like [samphold~]. In order for it to be a proper clone of max, that'd need to be corrected, not sure if it happened already. 2015-05-24 23:18 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com mailto:por...@gmail.com: for instance, it says Symbol argument sets name of table to play from. Additional int argument after that sets sample offset into the table (default 0) well, I put an int argument after that, and it doesn't really work at all! 2015-05-24 23:05 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com mailto:por...@gmail.com: hi fred, how's it going? I was checking [cycle~] and it seems it's not behaving much closely like in max, have you checked that? I'm saying more about its behaviour as a wavetable, where it can offsett the table and everything. I can't find that list of bugs you were working on, where is it? How is it anyway? thanks cheers 2015-01-23 14:25 GMT-02:00 Fred Jan Kraan fjkr...@xs4all.nl mailto:fjkr...@xs4all.nl: Hi All, At http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/digaud/puredata/cyclone/index.html a new set of revised help-patches for the cyclone library are available. Most previous remarks are applied. There are now previews of the Windows binaries and MacOSX. The latter is build on MacOSX 10.5 with XCode 3.14, so should have executables for PPC, i386 and i386_64. I confirmed the last two are working (10.5 and 10.8). It remains in progress, in the task list are the fixed and remaining issues. Fred Jan ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] installing pd libs on debian / OlinuXino board (wa: solimex board)
and here is my etc/apt/source.list : deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy main contrib non-free deb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy main contrib non-free deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy-updates main contrib non-free deb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy-updates main contrib non-free deb http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main contrib non-free deb-src http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main contrib non-free deb http://apt.puredata.info/releases stable main i'm trying to get iem library. i managed to get it from source but some objects don't work i'd like to try to get it with apt-get install i could get ggee and zexy this way and both work properly. but as said earlier with $ sudo apt-get install pd-iemlib i get : E: Unable to locate package pd-iemlib so I'm wondering what repository i should add to the source.list wheezy ? stretch ? ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] installing pd libs on debian / OlinuXino board (wa: solimex board)
You did say you built it from source anyway right? If so shouldn't matter. yes I compiled pd vanilla 0.46-6 from Miller's website Does seem like you're going to have to build the necessary externals. well, i could get ggee working by getting it through apt-get and then moving it from /usr/lib to /usr/local/lib where is set up my pd. How's it going with that? My memory is Cyclone could be a pain. yes, getting Cyclone working was a pain ! But not it works. I also got iemlib from repository but half of the objects do no work (like [any] or [prepend], but I could replace them with [list] in most cases). On 5 June 2015 at 16:14, Raphaël Ilias phae.il...@gmail.com wrote: To answer Katja Julian, i don't know which debian version is distributed, Olimex call it : A20-OLinuXino-Lime Debian with kernel 3.4.90+ release 3 and here is my etc/apt/source.list : deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy main contrib non-free deb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy main contrib non-free deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy-updates main contrib non-free deb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy-updates main contrib non-free deb http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main contrib non-free deb-src http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main contrib non-free deb http://apt.puredata.info/releases stable main also, about that : found a working solution in this thread : http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2015-01/109000.html so i made $ apt-get build-dep puredata apparently you also need to do ./autogen again maybe obvious for many but... and then $ ./configure --enable-alsa $ make $ sudo make install thanks everyone for help ! Raphaël ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Curtsi Filter for Pure Data
hi, this curtis filter seems to be just one amongst millions of analog filters. It's just a resonant lowpass. There are countless analog ones and you can't really make a perfect digital clone of an analog filter. Having said that, there are many resonant lowpass filters in pd (extended). Try [lores~], [moog~], [resofilt~], [svf~] and [lowpass] into biquad, for example. There's a [bob~] filter in the latest vanilla as well. some of this are 4 pole filters and other are 2 pole - the curtis one can be set to 2 or 4 poles. By the way, two filters in series that are 2 pole make a 4 pole filter. cheers 2015-05-20 15:21 GMT-03:00 Pagano, Patrick p...@digitalworlds.ufl.edu: I am looking for a nice version of the Curtsi Filter like that has been released in the new Dave Smith Module http://www.davesmithinstruments.com/product/dsm01-curtis-filter-module/ Is there a similar one in Pure Data already thati can employ? TY *Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A* Audio and Projection Design Faculty Digital Worlds Institute University of Florida, USA (352)294-2020 ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Update cyclone maintenance
Hi Alexandre, On 2015-06-05 09:21 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote: The concept of hot and cold inlets appears to apply to messages, not signals Surely, it's not that what confused me. Actually Max did confuse me I guess, I thought I found a different behavior in [sah~] over there. But I actually hadn't understood how it worked. Sorry... it all makes sense now and [sah~] is indeed working in the same way! Anyway, like I asked before, I can't find that list of bugs you were working on, where is it? The list and the object states is here: http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/digaud/puredata/cyclone/cycloneToDo.html. Did you see what I mentioned about [cycle~]? No, but I will try to dig up your post about it. Now, since the maintenance of Extended seems to be dead, I guess the point of updating cyclone is to make it available for download. I've always had the idea it was available for download somewhere, but it isn't. There's the download version from the package that was out in 0.42 extended in puredata.info http://puredata.info and that's it. So, where's that page with the bug list that you were working on? I'd like to check it out. And when do you think we could have it for download in the puredata.info http://puredata.info site (or somewhere else as well)? Can I get the package as it is now and test it? For now, you can find a zip of the cyclone directory here: http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/digaud/puredata/cyclone/index.html. Being just zips, it is not very convenient. But a better solution for distributing externals is in the works. thanks Greetings, Fred Jan ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] examples of classic Sample and Hold
Try using [slide~] after a sample and hold, it'll make some nice portamento sounds, some synths have that feature. [sah~] has a different behaviour where you can set the trigger threshold, you can use [noisi~] to trigger it randomly while using it for something else as well. [noish~] is like a noise into a sample and hold, you can think noish~ as noise hold cheers 2015-04-16 9:20 GMT-03:00 Pagano, Patrick p...@digitalworlds.ufl.edu: Thank you everyone, Bill yours is that classic SH sound i was looking for I did randomize the osc~ too and it sounds even better like you suggested the line~ helps alot too. *Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A* Audio and Projection Design Faculty Digital Worlds Institute University of Florida, USA (352)294-2020 -- *From:* i go bananas hard@gmail.com *Sent:* Thursday, April 16, 2015 1:49 AM *To:* William Huston *Cc:* Pagano, Patrick; pd-l...@iem.at *Subject:* Re: [PD] examples of classic Sample and Hold for sample-and-hold, as it is usually implemented for pitch in a synth, you actually don't even NEED to use the samphold~ object! you can just use a metro to simulate the clock, and then a random to simulate the noise input (that's what was usually used for synth sample and hold madness). [metro 125] | [random 5000] | [/ 100] | [+ 40] | [mtof] | [phasor~] | [*~ 2] | [-~ 1] likewise, you can use the same process for sample and hold on a filter by just adding a short [line~ 10] after the [mtof] and feeding that into the 2nd inlet of [vcf~] or of course, you could run one process on the pitch and another on the filter, but just make sure to use a slightly different random number base to make them independent, On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 10:37 AM, William Huston williamahus...@gmail.com wrote: As I understand it, a classic sample and hold is capturing the instantaneous input voltage of an incoming signal, and remembering it. [metro 5] [adc~] |/ [snapshot~] | [f] The [metro 5] is also banging on the [snapshot~]'s hot inlet with [adc~] if want samples at 5ms intervals. However, these days, in my own mind at least, I think about sample and hold as meaning, read a few seconds of audio from a source into a memory, and loop it. I don't know if others think this way also. That would be a more complex circuit. BH On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 6:36 PM, Pagano, Patrick p...@digitalworlds.ufl.edu wrote: Hello Everyone I am wondering if people would be willing if they have an example of Sample and Hold to use for a project i am working on. I am interested in the classic sounding Sample and Hold insanity please share a patch if you have one so i may learn on how to make one properly the one in the help files is not the kind i am talking about i hope this makes sense pp *Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A* Audio and Projection Design Faculty Digital Worlds Institute University of Florida, USA (352)294-2020 ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- -- May you, and all beings be happy and free from suffering :) -- ancient Buddhist Prayer (Metta) Don't forget to sign the *Pledge to Resist * *the Constitution Pipeline: * - *The Pledge: TinyURL.com/Pledge2ResistCP http://TinyURL.com/Pledge2ResistCP* - *More info: TinyURL.com/Pledge2ResistCP1 http://TinyURL.com/Pledge2ResistCP1* ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Update cyclone maintenance
On Fre, 2015-06-05 at 17:34 -0300, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote: I'm voting for a new [scale] and [scale~] object in cyclone, the second is missing completely in extended, the first is around, but in different versions, like [maxlib/scale], which has a log option, and is actually buggy, and the [expr_scale], which is just an expr abstraction. Seems like very simple externals to make and I could go ahead and code them. I think they'd be really useful. Why do you need them as externals? Those are simply less portable (at least they need recompiling when switching platforms) and they require only very few vanilla objects as abstractions. I don't think this is an example where you gain much performance when implemented as an external. Why not build yourself abstractions? For example, [scale~] would be essential to adjust the amplitude range from LFOs to control your patches. the [scale] would be good for adjusting MIDI input. This was exactly the use case I had in mind when writing [rh_scalelog~] and [rh_scalelin~]. Assuming that sources (i.e. LFOs, ADSRs, oscillators,...) are using a standardized range (0-1), I didn't see a need for input scaling. Roman ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] cyclone/maxmode functionality usage
No code will be removed, just the maxmode object and related library objects will not be build anymore. So it'll remove many objects from the library, right? I'm having a hard time understanding this [maxmode] thing/object, can you give us an example on how to use it? cheers 2015-05-01 17:48 GMT-03:00 Fred Jan Kraan fjkr...@xs4all.nl: Hi All, Is anyone using the 'maxmode' object and functionality of the Cyclone library? The maxmode adds 162 dummy objects, which make importing of Max/MSP patches more convenient. Note these are Max/MSP 4.6 patches, already supported in Pd-vanilla, not the more recent file formats. In addition several binop signal objects are loaded, the message and signal objects are loaded from library objects. Normal cyclone usage are individual objects. Because we are planning to switch to a new build system, usable for all Puredata external libraries, it would be an opportunity to simplify the building process and remove potential unused functionality. No code will be removed, just the maxmode object and related library objects will not be build anymore. Fred Jan P.S. The original cyclone page went off-line sometime this year, but here is a copy: http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/digaud/puredata/cyclone/cyclone_site/cyclone.html ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Update cyclone maintenance
I'm voting for a new [scale] and [scale~] object in cyclone, the second is missing completely in extended, the first is around, but in different versions, like [maxlib/scale], which has a log option, and is actually buggy, and the [expr_scale], which is just an expr abstraction. Seems like very simple externals to make and I could go ahead and code them. I think they'd be really useful. For example, [scale~] would be essential to adjust the amplitude range from LFOs to control your patches. the [scale] would be good for adjusting MIDI input. cheers 2015-06-05 16:21 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com: The concept of hot and cold inlets appears to apply to messages, not signals Surely, it's not that what confused me. Actually Max did confuse me I guess, I thought I found a different behavior in [sah~] over there. But I actually hadn't understood how it worked. Sorry... it all makes sense now and [sah~] is indeed working in the same way! Anyway, like I asked before, I can't find that list of bugs you were working on, where is it? Did you see what I mentioned about [cycle~]? Now, since the maintenance of Extended seems to be dead, I guess the point of updating cyclone is to make it available for download. I've always had the idea it was available for download somewhere, but it isn't. There's the download version from the package that was out in 0.42 extended in puredata.info and that's it. So, where's that page with the bug list that you were working on? I'd like to check it out. And when do you think we could have it for download in the puredata.info site (or somewhere else as well)? Can I get the package as it is now and test it? thanks 2015-06-05 3:29 GMT-03:00 Fred Jan Kraan fjkr...@xs4all.nl: Hi Alexandre, Sorry, I had missed your message, most active Pd-time had gone into helping to improve the build system for cyclone and pd-externals in general. The concept of hot and cold inlets appears to apply to messages, not signals. Sah~ appears to work as described in the Max5 documentation. I'll improve the help-patch. Consider it a good thing Pd can confuse you. It would get boring if it didn't :-). Greetings, Fred Jan On 2015-06-05 03:42 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote: please do not consider my previous message, I clearly had no idea what I was talking about and was just really confused :) sorry 2015-05-26 18:12 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com mailto:por...@gmail.com: By the way, [sah~] in Pd has the inlets switched. In max, the left one is supposed to trigger the sample and hold, unlike [samphold~] in Pd. But [sah~] is just like [samphold~]. In order for it to be a proper clone of max, that'd need to be corrected, not sure if it happened already. 2015-05-24 23:18 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com mailto:por...@gmail.com: for instance, it says Symbol argument sets name of table to play from. Additional int argument after that sets sample offset into the table (default 0) well, I put an int argument after that, and it doesn't really work at all! 2015-05-24 23:05 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com mailto:por...@gmail.com: hi fred, how's it going? I was checking [cycle~] and it seems it's not behaving much closely like in max, have you checked that? I'm saying more about its behaviour as a wavetable, where it can offsett the table and everything. I can't find that list of bugs you were working on, where is it? How is it anyway? thanks cheers 2015-01-23 14:25 GMT-02:00 Fred Jan Kraan fjkr...@xs4all.nl mailto:fjkr...@xs4all.nl: Hi All, At http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/digaud/puredata/cyclone/index.html a new set of revised help-patches for the cyclone library are available. Most previous remarks are applied. There are now previews of the Windows binaries and MacOSX. The latter is build on MacOSX 10.5 with XCode 3.14, so should have executables for PPC, i386 and i386_64. I confirmed the last two are working (10.5 and 10.8). It remains in progress, in the task list are the fixed and remaining issues. Fred Jan ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
[PD] Mess and redundancy in the Pd eco system (was: [range] / [maxlib/scale] for audio)
On Fre, 2015-06-05 at 14:32 -0300, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote: I couldn't find a [range] object in Pd-extended. I have it in 0.42, maybe yours is 0.43 - it's located in flatspace, but it doesn't even have a help file... Wow, you're missing so much new stuff... (and yes, I was checking 0.43-extended) Well, this all makes me say how I find Pd-extended to be very messy, with many redundanct objects, not to mention buggy or poorly documented (many have no help whatsoever). As I dig further, I just find more of all this... I know this directs this thread to another discussion, but I'd really hope for the update and maintenance active again, and that I could help cleaning some stuff up. I _believe_ Pd-extended was meant to be collection of as much software as was/is available for Pd. It respected the libraries (I'm sure this is argued by some, regarding multi-object libs vs. single-object externals) and put it into namespaces so that the user can decide what to use and what not. One could also say it deferred the burden to deal with the mess on the user. But it made much of the existing Pd ecosystem available to the masses - which I consider a huge achievement - and you can more or less assume that a patch made on platform Y will work the same on platform X with the same version of Pd-extended. I think tiding it all up is again a huge task. It's all free software, so anyone could do it. Having followed this list for a few years, I don't believe in the authoritative collection of Pd externals and abstraction anymore. People are using software in different ways for different purposes, and one can observe that many create their own nice tidied-up unified collections of abstractions (mtl, rjlib, netpd, etc.) and none of them gained so much traction that they would be used by a majority of the Pd users. I even think that trying it would be a lost game and would end up with endless mailing list debates. Retrospectively, it looks like maintaining something like Pd-extended is a too complex task to be distributed among many and too much for a single person (Pd-L2ork being the counter example). I sense agreement on the notion that effort is better spent on making separate libraries easily accessible/distributable. People willing to help could focus on the external they have the most interest in. It already started in Debian, where IOhannes, Hans (mainly) and me (to some lesser degree) worked on creating proper Debian packages of a lot of externals. Similar could be done for other platforms, too. Pd-extended could be the collection of those packages that are available on all major platforms (or whatever). Personally, I suffer most from the fact, that Pd-extended is a separately maintained Pd with patches on one hand and a collection of externals on the other. If it would be simply a Pd with a collection of externals, it would be much simpler to just update Pd and add - for all I care - a frozen collection of externals. Pd-extended was always one or two versions behind Pd. Now it's already three. If I want to make my stuff portable and available to non-Pd-savvy people, I have to stick with compatibility with Pd-extended 0.43, which is a huge pain, considering what more recent versions of Pd offer ([array], [text], [oscparse], new methods for time based objects, etc.). I agree with you that there is a lot of mess and redundancy. But I'm not sure if it matters that much. Roman ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Update cyclone maintenance
See [m_scale] in rjlib: https://github.com/rjdj/rjlib/tree/master/rj https://github.com/rjdj/rjlib/tree/master/rj Dan Wilcox @danomatika https://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com http://danomatika.com/ robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com/ On Jun 5, 2015, at 4:35 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote: From: Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com mailto:por...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PD] Update cyclone maintenance Date: June 5, 2015 at 4:34:55 PM EDT To: Fred Jan Kraan fjkr...@xs4all.nl mailto:fjkr...@xs4all.nl Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at pd-list@lists.iem.at mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at I'm voting for a new [scale] and [scale~] object in cyclone, the second is missing completely in extended, the first is around, but in different versions, like [maxlib/scale], which has a log option, and is actually buggy, and the [expr_scale], which is just an expr abstraction. Seems like very simple externals to make and I could go ahead and code them. I think they'd be really useful. For example, [scale~] would be essential to adjust the amplitude range from LFOs to control your patches. the [scale] would be good for adjusting MIDI input. cheers ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Update cyclone maintenance
Yeah, I already built it with expr, so I don't really need to download etxernals for that. I was just wondering if extended already had such a thing, and it doesn't, so I think it's a nice addon to cyclone. An addon to cyclone would implicate and addon to extended, but then, it's not clear it'll ever be maintained again. Last time anyone talked about it in this list was 6 months ago... one way or another, seems like a nice addon to cyclone. Maybe it could be just an abstraction and it doesn't have to be a compiled object, I see the point. But I'd like to try and code it as an external into the cyclone library if possible. cheers 2015-06-05 17:50 GMT-03:00 Dan Wilcox danomat...@gmail.com: See [m_scale] in rjlib: https://github.com/rjdj/rjlib/tree/master/rj Dan Wilcox @danomatika https://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com On Jun 5, 2015, at 4:35 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote: *From: *Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com *Subject: **Re: [PD] Update cyclone maintenance* *Date: *June 5, 2015 at 4:34:55 PM EDT *To: *Fred Jan Kraan fjkr...@xs4all.nl *Cc: *pd-list@lists.iem.at pd-list@lists.iem.at I'm voting for a new [scale] and [scale~] object in cyclone, the second is missing completely in extended, the first is around, but in different versions, like [maxlib/scale], which has a log option, and is actually buggy, and the [expr_scale], which is just an expr abstraction. Seems like very simple externals to make and I could go ahead and code them. I think they'd be really useful. For example, [scale~] would be essential to adjust the amplitude range from LFOs to control your patches. the [scale] would be good for adjusting MIDI input. cheers ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Mess and redundancy in the Pd eco system (was: [range] / [maxlib/scale] for audio)
I'm actually ok with lots of mess, check my apartment. What actually bums me out is that the maintenance is dead, and there's no sign anything is gonna happen. Last time someone discussed it was 6 months ago and it just went silent... I'd really like to spend a lot of personal effort in this, Pd is a very important part of my work and I'd love to pay it back, but unfortunately I'm no programmer. I'll do what I can, I'll manage, I'll test it, I'll try to clean the mess, I'll report bugs and organize/manage the project. I'll even study and start programming what I can. Count me in, but without an actual community, there's no deal. I just collaborated with supercollider, I helped in a bug report, I revised and rewrote the help of 3 objects, and it went nice and smoothly like a charm. They seem to have a nice community working on out there, we don't. It seems extended was all concentrated in Hans and not a community. cheers 2015-06-05 18:52 GMT-03:00 Roman Haefeli reduz...@gmail.com: On Fre, 2015-06-05 at 14:32 -0300, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote: I couldn't find a [range] object in Pd-extended. I have it in 0.42, maybe yours is 0.43 - it's located in flatspace, but it doesn't even have a help file... Wow, you're missing so much new stuff... (and yes, I was checking 0.43-extended) Well, this all makes me say how I find Pd-extended to be very messy, with many redundanct objects, not to mention buggy or poorly documented (many have no help whatsoever). As I dig further, I just find more of all this... I know this directs this thread to another discussion, but I'd really hope for the update and maintenance active again, and that I could help cleaning some stuff up. I _believe_ Pd-extended was meant to be collection of as much software as was/is available for Pd. It respected the libraries (I'm sure this is argued by some, regarding multi-object libs vs. single-object externals) and put it into namespaces so that the user can decide what to use and what not. One could also say it deferred the burden to deal with the mess on the user. But it made much of the existing Pd ecosystem available to the masses - which I consider a huge achievement - and you can more or less assume that a patch made on platform Y will work the same on platform X with the same version of Pd-extended. I think tiding it all up is again a huge task. It's all free software, so anyone could do it. Having followed this list for a few years, I don't believe in the authoritative collection of Pd externals and abstraction anymore. People are using software in different ways for different purposes, and one can observe that many create their own nice tidied-up unified collections of abstractions (mtl, rjlib, netpd, etc.) and none of them gained so much traction that they would be used by a majority of the Pd users. I even think that trying it would be a lost game and would end up with endless mailing list debates. Retrospectively, it looks like maintaining something like Pd-extended is a too complex task to be distributed among many and too much for a single person (Pd-L2ork being the counter example). I sense agreement on the notion that effort is better spent on making separate libraries easily accessible/distributable. People willing to help could focus on the external they have the most interest in. It already started in Debian, where IOhannes, Hans (mainly) and me (to some lesser degree) worked on creating proper Debian packages of a lot of externals. Similar could be done for other platforms, too. Pd-extended could be the collection of those packages that are available on all major platforms (or whatever). Personally, I suffer most from the fact, that Pd-extended is a separately maintained Pd with patches on one hand and a collection of externals on the other. If it would be simply a Pd with a collection of externals, it would be much simpler to just update Pd and add - for all I care - a frozen collection of externals. Pd-extended was always one or two versions behind Pd. Now it's already three. If I want to make my stuff portable and available to non-Pd-savvy people, I have to stick with compatibility with Pd-extended 0.43, which is a huge pain, considering what more recent versions of Pd offer ([array], [text], [oscparse], new methods for time based objects, etc.). I agree with you that there is a lot of mess and redundancy. But I'm not sure if it matters that much. Roman ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] cyclone/maxmode functionality usage
So [maxmode] basically loads useless empty dummy objects for more compability. Well, my two cents is that the idea of having a library with several objects that exist in Max and not in Pd is great and awesome. It serves well in making both worlds somewhat compatible. But regarding opening the same files/patches, MAX and PD are just growing out to be very incompatible projects, so it's rather healthy to forget about forcing any compatibility of this type - it's just insane. It may have been reasonable back in MAX 4.6, but nowadays, with MAX 7 and everything, seems pointless. More than that, to answer your question, it's pretty obvious to me that no human being is using this... Now, please tell about these *bin-ops **nettles*, what are these? cheers 2015-06-05 18:15 GMT-03:00 Fred Jan Kraan fjkr...@xs4all.nl: Hi Alexandre, No code will be removed, just the maxmode object and related library objects will not be build anymore. So it'll remove many objects from the library, right? What will be removed is the actual maxmode object, the bin-ops nettles, ~150 dummy objects and the hammer and sickle libraries. The hammer and sickle libraries contain the objects which are also available as separate objects. I'm having a hard time understanding this [maxmode] thing/object, can you give us an example on how to use it? As I understand it, the purpose of the [maxmode] object is to make importing and converting Max/MSP 4.6 patches more convenient. The dummy objects do not do anything, but the patch will load without errors. The idea is to replace the dummies with abstractions or other objects. The dummies were the objects in Max/MSP4.6 but not in Pd-vanilla or cyclone. It might have made sense when Max/MSP 4.6 were common, but that is a long time ago. The original cyclone page is gone from the site, but I made a copy just in time: http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/digaud/puredata/cyclone/cyclone_site/cyclone.html . cheers Greetings, Fred Jan 2015-05-01 17:48 GMT-03:00 Fred Jan Kraan fjkr...@xs4all.nl mailto:fjkr...@xs4all.nl: Hi All, Is anyone using the 'maxmode' object and functionality of the Cyclone library? The maxmode adds 162 dummy objects, which make importing of Max/MSP patches more convenient. Note these are Max/MSP 4.6 patches, already supported in Pd-vanilla, not the more recent file formats. In addition several binop signal objects are loaded, the message and signal objects are loaded from library objects. Normal cyclone usage are individual objects. Because we are planning to switch to a new build system, usable for all Puredata external libraries, it would be an opportunity to simplify the building process and remove potential unused functionality. No code will be removed, just the maxmode object and related library objects will not be build anymore. Fred Jan P.S. The original cyclone page went off-line sometime this year, but here is a copy: http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/digaud/puredata/cyclone/cyclone_site/cyclone.html ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Mess and redundancy in the Pd eco system (was: [range] / [maxlib/scale] for audio)
I'd actually like to know better the issues behind extended, and why is it so hard to just update it to the newer vanilla version and let people manage/update the libraries/externals... Why, for instance, can't I update a library like cyclone and release a new updated version of extended (let it be 0.43) with the updated objects? What's the deal? cheers 2015-06-05 20:24 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com: I'm actually ok with lots of mess, check my apartment. What actually bums me out is that the maintenance is dead, and there's no sign anything is gonna happen. Last time someone discussed it was 6 months ago and it just went silent... I'd really like to spend a lot of personal effort in this, Pd is a very important part of my work and I'd love to pay it back, but unfortunately I'm no programmer. I'll do what I can, I'll manage, I'll test it, I'll try to clean the mess, I'll report bugs and organize/manage the project. I'll even study and start programming what I can. Count me in, but without an actual community, there's no deal. I just collaborated with supercollider, I helped in a bug report, I revised and rewrote the help of 3 objects, and it went nice and smoothly like a charm. They seem to have a nice community working on out there, we don't. It seems extended was all concentrated in Hans and not a community. cheers 2015-06-05 18:52 GMT-03:00 Roman Haefeli reduz...@gmail.com: On Fre, 2015-06-05 at 14:32 -0300, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote: I couldn't find a [range] object in Pd-extended. I have it in 0.42, maybe yours is 0.43 - it's located in flatspace, but it doesn't even have a help file... Wow, you're missing so much new stuff... (and yes, I was checking 0.43-extended) Well, this all makes me say how I find Pd-extended to be very messy, with many redundanct objects, not to mention buggy or poorly documented (many have no help whatsoever). As I dig further, I just find more of all this... I know this directs this thread to another discussion, but I'd really hope for the update and maintenance active again, and that I could help cleaning some stuff up. I _believe_ Pd-extended was meant to be collection of as much software as was/is available for Pd. It respected the libraries (I'm sure this is argued by some, regarding multi-object libs vs. single-object externals) and put it into namespaces so that the user can decide what to use and what not. One could also say it deferred the burden to deal with the mess on the user. But it made much of the existing Pd ecosystem available to the masses - which I consider a huge achievement - and you can more or less assume that a patch made on platform Y will work the same on platform X with the same version of Pd-extended. I think tiding it all up is again a huge task. It's all free software, so anyone could do it. Having followed this list for a few years, I don't believe in the authoritative collection of Pd externals and abstraction anymore. People are using software in different ways for different purposes, and one can observe that many create their own nice tidied-up unified collections of abstractions (mtl, rjlib, netpd, etc.) and none of them gained so much traction that they would be used by a majority of the Pd users. I even think that trying it would be a lost game and would end up with endless mailing list debates. Retrospectively, it looks like maintaining something like Pd-extended is a too complex task to be distributed among many and too much for a single person (Pd-L2ork being the counter example). I sense agreement on the notion that effort is better spent on making separate libraries easily accessible/distributable. People willing to help could focus on the external they have the most interest in. It already started in Debian, where IOhannes, Hans (mainly) and me (to some lesser degree) worked on creating proper Debian packages of a lot of externals. Similar could be done for other platforms, too. Pd-extended could be the collection of those packages that are available on all major platforms (or whatever). Personally, I suffer most from the fact, that Pd-extended is a separately maintained Pd with patches on one hand and a collection of externals on the other. If it would be simply a Pd with a collection of externals, it would be much simpler to just update Pd and add - for all I care - a frozen collection of externals. Pd-extended was always one or two versions behind Pd. Now it's already three. If I want to make my stuff portable and available to non-Pd-savvy people, I have to stick with compatibility with Pd-extended 0.43, which is a huge pain, considering what more recent versions of Pd offer ([array], [text], [oscparse], new methods for time based objects, etc.). I agree with you that there is a lot of mess and redundancy. But I'm not sure if it matters that much. Roman
