Re: [PD] Japanese language problem

[Dan Wilcox]

Internationalization support is definitely high on my list. Is there some way 
you could get a copy of the string that causes the error? It's hard to 
debug/fix things without the same set up, ie. it could be a problem with Tcl/Tk 
or Portaudio string handling on Windows, etc. In any case, the audio dialog 
shouldn't crash Pd on our friends in Japan!

> On Aug 2, 2018, at 5:52 AM, S.E.P.  
> wrote:
> 
> I guess I'll have to change my system settings to a European language then. 
> Too bad! It was good for my vocabulary to have the JP settings. 
> 
> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 3:21 AM, Dan Wilcox  > wrote:
> It might then be a lower-level issue with the device strings returned by 
> Portaudio.
> 
> 
>> On Aug 1, 2018, at 11:56 AM, S.E.P. > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hm, I made those changes to dialog_audio.tlc and it didn't help. After that, 
>> I tried making the pd-lang.bat file as per the github link's instructions 
>> and that also didn't work (It launches PD, but I still get the error when 
>> trying to open Audio Settings.
>> 
>> On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 4:41 AM, Dan Wilcox > > wrote:
>> Can you do a test by modifying the Audio dialog's TCL script? It's in the Pd 
>> folder: tcl/audio_dialog.tcl
>> 
>> Modify the "set audio_indev" & "set audio_outdev" lines starting at 103 from:
>> 
>> set audio_indev1 $indev1
>> 
>> to 
>>   
>> set audio_indev1 [encoding convertfrom $indev1]
>> 
>> This should convert the device name from the system encoding to UTF8 which 
>> the Tk GUI should be able to handle.
>> 
>> Basically, modify those lines, then save the file and (re)start Pd. If it 
>> doesn't appear or crashes right away, then there is a low-level script 
>> error. It's a good idea to make a backup of the file just in case this 
>> happens.
>> 
>> We may have to escape more strings throughout the GUI and probably re-encode 
>> the device strings when sending them back to the pd-core.
>> 
>>> On Jul 30, 2018, at 6:11 PM, Dan Wilcox >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> It's a bug. Pd should be able to handle unicode in this case.
>>> 
>>> In the meantime, you can set the LANG environment variable when starting Pd 
>>> to English as detailed in 
>>> https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/blob/master/po/README.txt#L42 
>>> 
>>> 
 Hello,
 
 Pure Data throws the following error when I try to open up Media>Audio
 Settings:
 
 (Tcl) UNHANDLED ERROR: extra characters after close-brace
 while executing
 "lappend audio_indevlist {}CN (Realtek High Definition}
 global audio_outdevlist; set audio_outdevlist {}
 lappend audio_outdevlist {Xs [J ..."
 ("uplevel" body line 2)
 invoked from within
 "uplevel #0 $docmds"
 
 My OS is in Japanese and, according to this page (
 https://drugscore.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-194.html 
 ), I need to change the
 language setting of my OS to English (presumably other European languages
 would work, since I've used PD on a German-language system) to bypass this
 system.
 
 Just wondering if there was another fix- it's not a big deal for me to
 change the settings, but maybe for Japanese people interested in PD it
 would be.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 



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Re: [PD] videoPYLON C++ update needed

[Csaba Láng]

Iohannes,

the only link i got from Basler is a python wrapper:

https://github.com/basler/pypylon

the rest is binary with compiled folders and files headers on the original
Basler website.

Does it help you?

On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 2:15 PM IOhannes m zmoelnig  wrote:

> On 2018-08-09 10:51, Antoine Villeret wrote:
> > Pylon has already version 5.x (opensource) and provides driver to both
>
> where's an opensourced version of Pylon?
> all i can find are proprietary, EULA encumbered SDKs for free download.
>
> fgamsdr
> IOhannes
>
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Re: [PD] distinction Pd lingo: abstraction, subpatch, subwindow

[Max]

Likewise. Is there anyone opposing?

On 13.08.2018 13:23, Matt Davey wrote:

Totally agree with Dan on all points.

On Mon, 13 Aug 2018 at 12:32, Dan Wilcox > wrote:


My 2 cents:

* "subpatch" to me refers to [pd ...] aka a patch within a patch,
saved within the same patch file that uses it (no object instantiation)

* "abstraction" to me refers to a patch saved to and loaded from
it's own file (object instantiation)

* using "subpatches and abstractions" when referring to both is the
is the best option, I agree that "subwindow" is problematic since
there multiple types of things displayed in multiple windows already
(ie. the audio dialog could conceptually be a subwindow as well...)

* my preference is for "subpatch" as opposed to "sub-patch"

* "canvas" is problematic as there are already two notions of canvas
within Pd: the Pd patch canvas and the TK drawing canvas


On Aug 12, 2018, at 11:40 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at
 wrote:

Message-ID: <40aca4a4-d098-f49b-4914-46180e74d...@revolwear.com
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

I see, then maybe we are better off without umbrella term and just
refer
to subpatches and abstractions as "subpatches and abstractions".

m.



Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 



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Re: [PD] high speed usb3 camera can not be found

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

On 2018-08-13 14:08, Csaba Láng wrote:
> Anyway it was for GigE, but USB is needed.

PYLON is a transport agnostic API for accessing industrial type cameras.
whether this is about GigE or USB4 doesn't really matter at all.

what does matter is that their API seems to be unstable, so Gem's
videoPYLON can no longer compile...

fgamsdr
IOhannes



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Re: [PD] videoPYLON C++ update needed

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

On 2018-08-09 10:51, Antoine Villeret wrote:
> Pylon has already version 5.x (opensource) and provides driver to both

where's an opensourced version of Pylon?
all i can find are proprietary, EULA encumbered SDKs for free download.

fgamsdr
IOhannes



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Re: [PD] high speed usb3 camera can not be found

[Csaba Láng]

unfortunately, I have only Gem compiled, videoPYLON plugin was impossible
to compile even with an old version of Pylon v2.1.
Anyway it was for GigE, but USB is needed.

GEM: Graphics Environment for Multimedia
GEM: ver: 0.93.git 03e8d06a
GEM: compiled  on Aug  6 2018

[pix_video]: backend #0='v4l2': v4l2 analog
[pix_video]: backend #1='v4l': v4l analog
[pix_video]: backend #2='dv4l': dv4l dv
[pix_video]: backend #3='dc1394': dc1394 iidc
[pix_video]: backend #4='unicap': unicap analog libv4l2cpi
[pix_video]: backend #5='vlc'<--- DISABLED

Popesz

On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 2:02 PM IOhannes m zmoelnig  wrote:

> On 2018-08-06 13:31, Csaba Láng wrote:
> > and the same for pix_film, no backend found:
> > [pix_video]: no video backends found!
> > [pix_film]: no movie decoding backends found!
> >
> > How to fix it?
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 12:39 PM Csaba Láng  wrote:
> >
> >> What would be the ultimate prefix to configure Gem with videoPYLON
> plugin?
> >> I just compiled from the source 0.93.3 (hope this is the latest as it is
> >> always hard to find it) and pix_video did not find any backend not only
> >> pylon.
>
>
> i'm not exactly sure what you mean, but:
> - the backends *must* live besides the Gem-binary that you load.
> so if you use /home/csaba/.local/lib/pd/extra/Gem/Gem.pd_linux then you
> must also have a /home/csaba/.local/lib/pd/extra/Gem/videoPYLON.so
> - if instead you use /usr/lib/pd/extra/Gem/Gem.pd_linux, then the
> videoPYLON.so in ~/.local/ will *not* be used
> - the backend plugin probably should have the same version as the Gem
> version, and it might be required that both have been compiled with the
> same compiler (there was a breaking change between g++-4 and g++-5
> making binaries incompatible).
> if you've already compiled videoPYLON, you should also compile Gem itself.
>
> fgamsdr
> IOhannes
>
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Re: [PD] high speed usb3 camera can not be found

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

On 2018-08-06 13:31, Csaba Láng wrote:
> and the same for pix_film, no backend found:
> [pix_video]: no video backends found!
> [pix_film]: no movie decoding backends found!
> 
> How to fix it?
> 
> On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 12:39 PM Csaba Láng  wrote:
> 
>> What would be the ultimate prefix to configure Gem with videoPYLON plugin?
>> I just compiled from the source 0.93.3 (hope this is the latest as it is
>> always hard to find it) and pix_video did not find any backend not only
>> pylon.


i'm not exactly sure what you mean, but:
- the backends *must* live besides the Gem-binary that you load.
so if you use /home/csaba/.local/lib/pd/extra/Gem/Gem.pd_linux then you
must also have a /home/csaba/.local/lib/pd/extra/Gem/videoPYLON.so
- if instead you use /usr/lib/pd/extra/Gem/Gem.pd_linux, then the
videoPYLON.so in ~/.local/ will *not* be used
- the backend plugin probably should have the same version as the Gem
version, and it might be required that both have been compiled with the
same compiler (there was a breaking change between g++-4 and g++-5
making binaries incompatible).
if you've already compiled videoPYLON, you should also compile Gem itself.

fgamsdr
IOhannes



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Re: [PD] distinction Pd lingo: abstraction, subpatch, subwindow

[Matt Davey]

Totally agree with Dan on all points.

On Mon, 13 Aug 2018 at 12:32, Dan Wilcox  wrote:

> My 2 cents:
>
> * "subpatch" to me refers to [pd ...] aka a patch within a patch, saved
> within the same patch file that uses it (no object instantiation)
>
> * "abstraction" to me refers to a patch saved to and loaded from it's own
> file (object instantiation)
>
> * using "subpatches and abstractions" when referring to both is the is the
> best option, I agree that "subwindow" is problematic since there multiple
> types of things displayed in multiple windows already (ie. the audio dialog
> could conceptually be a subwindow as well...)
>
> * my preference is for "subpatch" as opposed to "sub-patch"
>
> * "canvas" is problematic as there are already two notions of canvas
> within Pd: the Pd patch canvas and the TK drawing canvas
>
> On Aug 12, 2018, at 11:40 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
>
> Message-ID: <40aca4a4-d098-f49b-4914-46180e74d...@revolwear.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> I see, then maybe we are better off without umbrella term and just refer
> to subpatches and abstractions as "subpatches and abstractions".
>
> m.
>
>
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika 
> danomatika.com
> robotcowboy.com
>
>
>
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Re: [PD] distinction Pd lingo: abstraction, subpatch, subwindow

[Dan Wilcox]

My 2 cents:

* "subpatch" to me refers to [pd ...] aka a patch within a patch, saved within 
the same patch file that uses it (no object instantiation)

* "abstraction" to me refers to a patch saved to and loaded from it's own file 
(object instantiation)

* using "subpatches and abstractions" when referring to both is the is the best 
option, I agree that "subwindow" is problematic since there multiple types of 
things displayed in multiple windows already (ie. the audio dialog could 
conceptually be a subwindow as well...)

* my preference is for "subpatch" as opposed to "sub-patch"

* "canvas" is problematic as there are already two notions of canvas within Pd: 
the Pd patch canvas and the TK drawing canvas

> On Aug 12, 2018, at 11:40 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message-ID: <40aca4a4-d098-f49b-4914-46180e74d...@revolwear.com 
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> 
> I see, then maybe we are better off without umbrella term and just refer 
> to subpatches and abstractions as "subpatches and abstractions".
> 
> m.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 



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Re: [PD] distinction Pd lingo: abstraction, subpatch, subwindow

[katja]

Long ago I've learned (from the FLOSS manual?) about 'encapsulated'
subpatch' as opposed to abstraction. Beautiful word, but a bit long. When
compared to a language like C, an encapsulated subpatch is the equivalent
of code folding, visually hiding the content. Whereas an abstraction is
like a function that you call through its name, possibly passing arguments.

Katja

On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 12:54 AM, Miller Puckette  wrote:

> I think the best terminology is "sub-patch" for eitehr an abstraction or
> for a one-off subpatch.  (But then we probably need a better term for
> 'one-off';
> maybe 'ad hoc'?
>
> cheers
> Miller
>
> On Tue, Aug 07, 2018 at 01:44:18PM +0200, Max wrote:
> > In the Pd documentation the word
> >
> > abstraction is found 1859 times
> > subpatch is found 2142 times
> > sub-patch is found 45 times
> > subwindow is found 24 times
> > sub-window is found 1 time (that's in the html document, where it occurs
> 3
> > times hyphenated and 1 time not hyphenated)
> >
> > For reference: Definitions of the terms subpatch and abstraction can be
> > found in paragraphs 2.7 and 2.7.1 of the documentation.
> >
> > The terms however are consistently used inconsistent.
> >
> > in 2.7.2 "Graph-on-parent subpatches" the illustration shows an
> abstraction,
> > not a subpatch. The text first talks about an abstraction and then
> > continues: "When the sub-patch is closed, all controls in it appear on
> the
> > object instead; so the number box in the sub-patch in the example above
> is
> > the same one as you see in the box. "
> >
> > Even weirder, there is a definition of the term "abstraction" in the
> > clone-help.pd which goes as follows: "a patch loaded as an object in
> another
> > patch"
> > but in the same patch the clones abstraction is named
> "clone-subpatch.pd".
> >
> > Is there something I am missing here?
> >
> > m.
> >
> > On 05.08.2018 12:01, Max wrote:
> > > OK, let me try myself, please correct me:
> > >
> > > An abstraction is a Pd patch which is used like an object in another Pd
> > > patch.
> > >
> > > A subpatch is saved within the main patch and is constructed with [pd
> > > {name}]. Multiple subpatches with the same name may coexist.
> > >
> > > Subwindow is the umbrella term for both of the prior terms.
> > >
> > > If someone can confirm that the above definition is true, I will make
> > > some pull requests to the documentation/ help files since it isn't
> > > consistent. The pd~-help for example.
> > >
> > >
> > > On 04.08.2018 14:05, Max wrote:
> > > > In the helpfiles and on this list the three words
> > > >
> > > > 'abstraction'
> > > > 'subpatch' or 'sub-patch'
> > > > 'subwindow'
> > > >
> > > > are used. could someone provide a definition of those? I suspect
> > > > they aren't used in a consistent way throughout the documentation.
> > > >
> > > > m.
> > > >
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Re: [PD] distinction Pd lingo: abstraction, subpatch, subwindow

[Christof Ressi]

What about 'canvas'?

> Gesendet: Sonntag, 12. August 2018 um 20:01 Uhr
> Von: Max 
> An: "Miller Puckette" 
> Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at
> Betreff: Re: [PD] distinction Pd lingo: abstraction, subpatch, subwindow
>
> I see, then maybe we are better off without umbrella term and just refer 
> to subpatches and abstractions as "subpatches and abstractions".
> 
> m.
> 
> On 12.08.2018 19:58, Miller Puckette wrote:
> > Trouble might be that there are other forms of subwindows (array, text) that
> > aren't patches.  So we'd need a term for 'a subwindow that's a patch'.  
> > Maybe
> > 'patch subwindow'?  But that's so close to 'subpatch' that it would make
> > everythig worse I think.
> > 
> > cheers
> > M
> > 
> > On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 07:00:36PM +0200, Max wrote:
> >> May I propose subwindow as an umbrella term for both abstractions and
> >> subpatches?
> >>
> >> Both terms should be either hyphenated or not. I am fine with not
> >> hyphenating them, but as a native German speaker I might have a bias 
> >> towards
> >> sticking words together.
> >>
> >> m.
> >>
> >> On 12.08.2018 18:45, Miller Puckette wrote:
> >>> Well, (adopting for the moment subpatch/abstraction for the larger class 
> >>> and
> >>> one-off subpatch for the more specific one of a non-abstraction)...
> >>>
> >>> I imagine that more things are true of subpatch/abstractions (they have
> >>> subwindows, inlets, outlets; and their run-time semantics are identical)
> >>> than are true of either subset alone (of which we may say that saving and
> >>> loading, and $-argument handling act differently).
> >>>
> >>> So it's convenient to have some name or other for 
> >>> 'abstraction/subpatch'...
> >>> but if just calling this a 'subpatch' is confusing, perhaps we can think 
> >>> of
> >>> another term.
> >>>
> >>> cheers
> >>> Miller
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 02:23:15PM +0200, Max wrote:
>  Hi Miller, thanks for chiming in.
> 
>  On 12.08.2018 00:54, Miller Puckette wrote:
> > I think the best terminology is "sub-patch" for either an abstraction or
> > for a one-off subpatch.  (But then we probably need a better term for 
> > 'one-off';
> > maybe 'ad hoc'?
> 
>  may I ask the rationale for it?
> 
>  I believe a clearly defined and consistent terminology is very important 
>  for
>  people trying to understand the manuals and helpfiles.
>  The definitions in 2.7 and 2.7.1 are good, and I think the terms 
>  "subpatch"
>  and "abstraction" are good too.
>  ** subpatch ** is like a folder structure where things can be put into 
>  and
>  stuffed away.
>  ** abstraction ** is exactly what it sounds like. The term doesn't try 
>  to be
>  what a "class" is in other languages, I think that's smart.
> 
>  The established definitions give us a clear distinction between 
>  externals,
>  abstractions and subpatches.
> 
>  Now I just wish the documentation would be consistent with those 
>  established
>  terms and not adding confusion by using the terms differently.
> 
>  m.
> 
> 
> >
> > cheers
> > Miller
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 07, 2018 at 01:44:18PM +0200, Max wrote:
> >> In the Pd documentation the word
> >>
> >> abstraction is found 1859 times
> >> subpatch is found 2142 times
> >> sub-patch is found 45 times
> >> subwindow is found 24 times
> >> sub-window is found 1 time (that's in the html document, where it 
> >> occurs 3
> >> times hyphenated and 1 time not hyphenated)
> >>
> >> For reference: Definitions of the terms subpatch and abstraction can be
> >> found in paragraphs 2.7 and 2.7.1 of the documentation.
> >>
> >> The terms however are consistently used inconsistent.
> >>
> >> in 2.7.2 "Graph-on-parent subpatches" the illustration shows an 
> >> abstraction,
> >> not a subpatch. The text first talks about an abstraction and then
> >> continues: "When the sub-patch is closed, all controls in it appear on 
> >> the
> >> object instead; so the number box in the sub-patch in the example 
> >> above is
> >> the same one as you see in the box. "
> >>
> >> Even weirder, there is a definition of the term "abstraction" in the
> >> clone-help.pd which goes as follows: "a patch loaded as an object in 
> >> another
> >> patch"
> >> but in the same patch the clones abstraction is named 
> >> "clone-subpatch.pd".
> >>
> >> Is there something I am missing here?
> >>
> >> m.
> >>
> >> On 05.08.2018 12:01, Max wrote:
> >>> OK, let me try myself, please correct me:
> >>>
> >>> An abstraction is a Pd patch which is used like an object in another 
> >>> Pd
> >>> patch.
> >>>
> >>> A subpatch is saved within the main patch and is constructed with [pd
> >>> {name}]. Multiple subpatches with the same name may coexist.
> >>>
> 

Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.48-2 released

[Lucas Cordiviola]

so maybe double check all links


Alex is right.

http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm

has links to 0.48-1 versions on win and mac.

@Alex:

You can get 0.48-2 from http://msp.ucsd.edu/Software/


--

Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.

On 8/13/2018 1:29 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
Great news! But I'm still getting 0.48-1 when clicking in - compiled for 
Macintosh OSX 10.6 or later (4 
Megabytes)

so maybe double check all links

cheers

2018-08-13 0:42 GMT-03:00 Miller Puckette mailto:m...@ucsd.edu>>:
To Pd-announce:

Pd version 0.48-2 is available on http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
or (source only) via github: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data

cheers
Miller

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