Re: [PD] MIDI / STATUS_BYTE / noteOn - noteOff mesage

[Simon Iten]

Roli seaboard, linnstrument. Don't know if those have noteoff velocity, but
they sure have MPE

On Mon, 3 Oct 2022, 00:39 Alexandre Torres Porres,  wrote:

>
>
> Em dom., 2 de out. de 2022 às 16:56, Simon Iten 
> escreveu:
>
>> there are “plenty” of polyphonic aftertouch controllers on the market,
>> some of the newer MPE hardware controllers use CC messages for this though.
>> (https://www.midi.org/midi-articles/midi-polyphonic-expression-mpe).
>> some of them also have release velocity.
>>
>
> examples of such controllers please?
>
>
>
>> there are also quite some softsynths that handle release velocity (
>> https://vital.audio  for a free example), so i would not exactly say
>> this is that rare. and also it will get more common again i guess.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1 Oct 2022, at 15:36, Alexandre Torres Porres 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Cool, but not a 'classic keyboard' controller. I don't know any modern
>> one with release velocity, and also with polyphonic aftertouch (at least a
>> decent/proper one that is not a pad and actually uses pressure after you
>> press the note).
>> cheers
>>
>> Em sex., 30 de set. de 2022 às 17:09, Peter Brinkmann <
>> peter.brinkm...@googlemail.com> escreveu:
>>
>>> There's a new controller that uses Note Off velocity in an interesting
>>> way --- the Artinoise re.corder
>>>  sends Note Off with nonzero
>>> velocity between slurred notes.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 9:30 AM Alexandre Torres Porres <
>>> por...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Hi, the ELSE library has [else/note.in] and [else/note.out] which can
 handle proper note off messages. There's an object in cyclone (and also in
 MAX, of course) that can do that too, called [cyclone/xnotein] and
 [cyclone/xnoteout].

 The use case of this is very rare as modern controllers don't really
 send note off messages anymore. I bought an old controller from the 80s
 that can do this, cause I'm a nerd and gear slut.

 Note Off messages start with channel messages from 128 to 143 (128
 being channel 1 up to 143 being channel 16) as Dan's test patch points out.
 You can use raw midi input from vanilla to listen to this and get the next
 two values which are MIDI note and release velocity.

 I would also like this to be available in vanilla, but, hey, well,
 there are the mentioned externals already and this is quite rare as I
 pointed out. If you need to do it as a pure vanilla application for
 whatever reason, you can create such abstraction with [midiin].

 cheers

 Em qui., 29 de set. de 2022 às 19:19, Dan Wilcox 
 escreveu:

> Pd treats noteoff as a noteon with 0 velocity, hence the [stripnote]
> object, etc.
>
> If you want to explicitly handle noteoff, you can look at the midi
> tester patch for working with raw bytes...
>
> 1. Help -> Browser...
> 2. Pure Data / 7.stuff / tools / miditester.pd
> 3. receive [pd channel messages]
>
> On Sep 27, 2022, at 9:56 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 17:42:15 +0200
> From: Lorenzo Sutton 
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
> Subject: Re: [PD] MIDI / STATUS_BYTE / noteOn - noteOff mesage
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> Hi,
>
> On 26/09/2022 20:43, Maurin Donneaud wrote:
>
> Dear List
>
> Looking at the MIDI 1.0 documentation :
>
> https://www.midi.org/specifications-old/item/table-2-expanded-messages-list-status-bytes
>
> I notice that the MIDI NOTES are transmitted over three bytes
> ??? byte 1 -> STATUS_BYTE [chan & function]
> ??? byte 2 -> DATA_BYTE [note] (0-127)
> ??? byte 3 -> DATA_BYTE [velocity] (0-127)
>
> I'm wandering if Pd have a simple object to extract the noteOn /
> noteOff
> message from the STATUS_BYTE.
>
>
> I think you should be able with [midiin].
>
> Note that as per MIDI spec, 'note off' can be either an explicit 'note
>
> off' message also containing a 'release velocity' value or (more
> common)
> a note on with velocity equal to zero (for example this is how Pd does
> a
> note on/off if you use the [makenote] object.
>
> Lorenzo
>
>
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika 
> danomatika.com
> robotcowboy.com
>
>
>
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Re: [PD] once again a timbreID question

[Peter P.]

* Simon Iten  [2022-10-02 22:22]:
> hi william and list,
> 
> for a museum-art-installation i will do a kind of audio "social-network"
> 
> basically a visitor can record a 5 second snippet via microphone or bluetooth 
> and PD saves this snippet as a sample.
> 
> out of this ever growing sample-space 8 readsf~ objects  will randomly play 
> these samples in various densities to 8 speakers.
> 
> so far so easy. (i have implemented that part already)
> 
> to get a more social network kind of atmosphere it would be great if newly 
> recorded snippets would increase the likelihood of similar material on the 
> outputs (as in twitter/facebook/instragram blabla, where you find yourself in 
> your bubble)
> 
> i still don’t really get howto work with [timbreID] to accomplish this.
> 
> maybe someone on the list has an example of this?
> 
> the process would be:
> 
> -a new sample is recorded (always 5 seconds) -> some [timbreID] analysis 
> happens to create a feature-list -> samples with a similar feature-list 
> should be played back next (a list of files that are similar would be great)
Well, each snippet's feature vector would be added as a new database
entry to the leftmost inlet of [timbreID], no? The you'd ask for the
nearest entry at its second inlet.
 
> the number of samples can easily grow to thousand of files, since the 
> installation will run for quite some time. each sample is only 441kb though 
> (mono 5 seconds file, according to OSX)
> 
> the examples of timbreID i look at either look at a fixed soundfile and slice 
> it to extract features over time, or slice incoming audio based on onset 
> detection for example.
> i would just want a feature-list created for each new 5 second clip i record. 
Yes, your example is not so different from what you see in the
help-patches of that great library.

Have you checked out William's examples, which I can't locate in
original on his web page (seems down) but which have been mirrored here?
https://github.com/mxa/timbreID-examples



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[PD] once again a timbreID question

[Simon Iten]

hi william and list,

for a museum-art-installation i will do a kind of audio "social-network"

basically a visitor can record a 5 second snippet via microphone or bluetooth 
and PD saves this snippet as a sample.

out of this ever growing sample-space 8 readsf~ objects  will randomly play 
these samples in various densities to 8 speakers.

so far so easy. (i have implemented that part already)

to get a more social network kind of atmosphere it would be great if newly 
recorded snippets would increase the likelihood of similar material on the 
outputs (as in twitter/facebook/instragram blabla, where you find yourself in 
your bubble)

i still don’t really get howto work with [timbreID] to accomplish this.

maybe someone on the list has an example of this?

the process would be:

-a new sample is recorded (always 5 seconds) -> some [timbreID] analysis 
happens to create a feature-list -> samples with a similar feature-list should 
be played back next (a list of files that are similar would be great)

the number of samples can easily grow to thousand of files, since the 
installation will run for quite some time. each sample is only 441kb though 
(mono 5 seconds file, according to OSX)

the examples of timbreID i look at either look at a fixed soundfile and slice 
it to extract features over time, or slice incoming audio based on onset 
detection for example.
i would just want a feature-list created for each new 5 second clip i record. 

hope this is clear enough, and thanks for reaching out if somebody has done 
something similar..



simon





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Re: [PD] MIDI / STATUS_BYTE / noteOn - noteOff mesage

[Simon Iten]

there are “plenty” of polyphonic aftertouch controllers on the market, some of 
the newer MPE hardware controllers use CC messages for this though. 
(https://www.midi.org/midi-articles/midi-polyphonic-expression-mpe 
). some of 
them also have release velocity. 
there are also quite some softsynths that handle release velocity 
(https://vital.audio   for a free example), so i would 
not exactly say this is that rare. and also it will get more common again i 
guess.



> On 1 Oct 2022, at 15:36, Alexandre Torres Porres  wrote:
> 
> Cool, but not a 'classic keyboard' controller. I don't know any modern one 
> with release velocity, and also with polyphonic aftertouch (at least a 
> decent/proper one that is not a pad and actually uses pressure after you 
> press the note).
> cheers
> 
> Em sex., 30 de set. de 2022 às 17:09, Peter Brinkmann 
> mailto:peter.brinkm...@googlemail.com>> 
> escreveu:
> There's a new controller that uses Note Off velocity in an interesting way 
> --- the Artinoise re.corder  sends 
> Note Off with nonzero velocity between slurred notes.
> 
> On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 9:30 AM Alexandre Torres Porres  > wrote:
> Hi, the ELSE library has [else/note.in ] and [else/note.out] 
> which can handle proper note off messages. There's an object in cyclone (and 
> also in MAX, of course) that can do that too, called [cyclone/xnotein] and 
> [cyclone/xnoteout].
> 
> The use case of this is very rare as modern controllers don't really send 
> note off messages anymore. I bought an old controller from the 80s that can 
> do this, cause I'm a nerd and gear slut.
> 
> Note Off messages start with channel messages from 128 to 143 (128 being 
> channel 1 up to 143 being channel 16) as Dan's test patch points out. You can 
> use raw midi input from vanilla to listen to this and get the next two values 
> which are MIDI note and release velocity. 
> 
> I would also like this to be available in vanilla, but, hey, well, there are 
> the mentioned externals already and this is quite rare as I pointed out. If 
> you need to do it as a pure vanilla application for whatever reason, you can 
> create such abstraction with [midiin].
> 
> cheers
> 
> Em qui., 29 de set. de 2022 às 19:19, Dan Wilcox  > escreveu:
> Pd treats noteoff as a noteon with 0 velocity, hence the [stripnote] object, 
> etc.
>  
> If you want to explicitly handle noteoff, you can look at the midi tester 
> patch for working with raw bytes...
> 
> 1. Help -> Browser...
> 2. Pure Data / 7.stuff / tools / miditester.pd
> 3. receive [pd channel messages]
> 
>> On Sep 27, 2022, at 9:56 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 17:42:15 +0200
>> From: Lorenzo Sutton > >
>> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at 
>> Subject: Re: [PD] MIDI / STATUS_BYTE / noteOn - noteOff mesage
>> Message-ID: > >
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> On 26/09/2022 20:43, Maurin Donneaud wrote:
>>> Dear List
>>> 
>>> Looking at the MIDI 1.0 documentation :
>>> https://www.midi.org/specifications-old/item/table-2-expanded-messages-list-status-bytes
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I notice that the MIDI NOTES are transmitted over three bytes
>>> ??? byte 1 -> STATUS_BYTE [chan & function]
>>> ??? byte 2 -> DATA_BYTE [note] (0-127)
>>> ??? byte 3 -> DATA_BYTE [velocity] (0-127)
>>> 
>>> I'm wandering if Pd have a simple object to extract the noteOn / noteOff 
>>> message from the STATUS_BYTE.
>> 
>> I think you should be able with [midiin].
>> 
>> Note that as per MIDI spec, 'note off' can be either an explicit 'note 
>> off' message also containing a 'release velocity' value or (more common) 
>> a note on with velocity equal to zero (for example this is how Pd does a 
>> note on/off if you use the [makenote] object.
>> 
>> Lorenzo
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika 
> danomatika.com 
> robotcowboy.com 
> 
> 
> 
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