Re[2]: Bresson a cropper?
Hi, yes - I understand that, but the borders look different when they're printed in. --- Bob mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Monday, March 05, 2001, 11:26:54 PM, you wrote: A black border is not necessarily an indication of a full-frame, or uncropped, print. Borders can be printed in, and they often are. I have read that HC-B has done just that in some instances, but I've never seen documentation of that. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Primes vs. Zooms
Mafud writes: I stand firm for zooms in the hands of the skilled against all those "prime only" folks and here, is not only a voice of reason, but clarity. I am sure that any *skilled* photographer could use a zoom or a prime lens equally well, but some (most?) situations definitely suit one type of lens better than the other. Having said that, I don't really see a lot of point in this debate. Zooms and primes each have their pros and cons, and one of the things we need to learn as photographers is which lens will best let us capture the images we want. FWIW, I sold my only zoom (35-70 f/2.5-3.5) a couple of weeks ago as I never use it. I may test-drive the new 24-90 when a sample arrives down here, if I can think of a reason to own that instead of a 77mm Limited :) Cheers, - Dave David A. Mann, B.E. email [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://www.digistar.com/~dmann/ "Why is it that if an adult behaves like a child they lock him up, while children are allowed to run free on the streets?" -- Garfield - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re[2]: Primes Vs. Zooms: was: Re: More on croppng (Was: An important step)
Hi, The gist of my post was this: Had HCB/Adams been around to shoot "pro" zooms, would they have, and would their zooms shots be masterpieces? That is the question[s]. HCB _is_ still around. Nowadays he mostly uses pencils. --- Bob mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: questions on PZ-1p
1) Area covered by the spot meter is variable as to the focal length of the lens put on. I believe it is between 3-5% of the viewfinder. 2) The PZ-1p is compatible with all K-mount lenses. You will get the capabilities that the lens can provide. If it is a K or M then you will have Center Weighted and Spot metering, Aperture priority and manual exposure control. 3) There currently is no battery pack or vertical grip available. There is a grip strap that those who have tried it, swear by and recently a 3rd party machinist is indicating that he will have a vertical grip/battery holder for sale. Hope this helps. It is a great camera. Bruce Dayton Sacramento, CA - Original Message - From: "Cristobal, Rey Bernard" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 11:58 PM Subject: questions on PZ-1p Groupmates, I have the following question on the PZ-1p 1) What is the area covered by the spot meter? 2) Would it work with my K-mount lens which I use with my MX? 3) Does it have a battery pack/vertical grip option? I tried looking for the answers to these in some of the websites selling it with no success. Bird - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Primes Vs. Zooms: was: Re: More on croppng (Was: An important step)
Zooms make you lazy? Huh? How? That is a new twist on an old urban legend. Applied to me. I had the same problem with zooms. regards, Alan Chan _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Primes vs. Zooms
I may test-drive the new 24-90 when a sample arrives down here, if I can think of a reason to own that instead of a 77mm Limited :) Sure you will, just that you would still buy the 77 instead (or both?). 8-) regards, Alan Chan _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: questions on PZ-1p
Groupmates, I have the following question on the PZ-1p 1) What is the area covered by the spot meter? 2.5% 2) Would it work with my K-mount lens which I use with my MX? Yes. 3) Does it have a battery pack/vertical grip option? There is either a third party grip with alternative battery choice and vertical shutter release (http://www.wdcamengineering.com/pentax.htm, now really available(!), picture at: http://i8.yimg.com/8/50d617d/g/b79f3ed7.jpg), or at Pentax an ergonomy grip FDp with additional tripod mount metal plate and hand strap. Ralf - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Silver MZ-S
Hi all, Matjaz wrote: Can any of our japanese friends translate what they say? Pentax will put the following items to the Japan Photo Expo 2001 (23 to 25 March in Tokyo and 6 to 8 April in Osaka); MZ-S (It only says "High Class SLR", not "Pro") Battery Grip for MZ-S AF360FGZ Cable Switch (long and short) Release Timer Switch (Interval shots and Time) Off Camera Shoe Clip New Quick Shoe FA31/1.8 (Not said it's "Limited") FA645 300/5.6 El-3000 digital camera MZ-S digital twin (No name yet) All these items are put on the show just for reference. They claim that all the specifications are NOT final yet. I'll try to translate the release for MZ-S later, at home. Sincerely, Take Ueda, Osaka, Japan [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.tripod.co.jp/hayatama/photo/ - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: questions on PZ-1p
Ralf wrote: RE There is either a third party grip with alternative battery choice RE and vertical shutter release RE (http://www.wdcamengineering.com/pentax.htm, now really available(!), Pics have changed indeed on this page, but I still fail to recognize the shutter release on the grip. Besides, wished David was more precise about the AA batteries usability. Last time he stated most AA brands don't deliver enough current and are far from the 2CR5 lifetime. Hope he surpassed the problem. Servus, Alin - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: Fish eye lens
Hi, "Cyril MARION" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm seeking a fish-eye to shoot high-quality panormas. I didn't find a fisheye too useful for panorama shots because of the heavy distortion. Fisheyes are special effect lenses IMO. it has a f/2.8 aperture vs f/4 It doesn't matter on a fisheye too much... Is it too early to ask how does the ZENITAR behaves on the 2nd hand market ? Here in Hungary, I could sell mine for the price I paid for it or a bit less. (I bought it new, with 1 year warranty.) Perhaps after 1 year and a couple of shoots the lens gets trouble ? Didn't noticed any yet. (OK, only 10 months.) Gabor - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
More glennish kludgery
Tonight (hey, the sun's not up yet, so I can still say that) I improvised a sort of modelling light. I wanted to photograph the guitar-damage to the fingernails of my strumming hand, including wearing right through the acrylic that a nail salon applied to the ones that get the most wear (middle, ring, and thumb -- I leave the index and pinkie bare), exposing the real nail underneath (and, this time, a completely shattered acrylic nail with most of the white part of the real nail torn off... no pain when it happened, but rather startling). Leaving aside the awkwardness of doing everything one-handed, this is a somewhat tricky macro subject, trying to show detail in white-on-white. (Suggestions welcome.) I wanted to know where the shadows would go. After finishing off the tail end of a roll of Fuji Press 800 in the KX with only moderate magnification (my K-mount extension tubes and my reversing ring went in the burglary), I threw an old roll of TMax in an H1a (no, I don't like TMax much, but I figured I might as well use it up, and I _know_ I'll get more chances to photograph damaged finernails -- I play Scottish music, loudly) and putting a recently acquired 50/1.4 bellows combination on it. What I wound up doing was putting an AF280T on an optical slave attached to a mini-tripod that has a velcro strap and right-angle cross-section legs, and lashing that to the pole of a brass floor lamp so that the flash tube was very, very close to the light bulb. Then I put a Vivitar 2000 (because it has a PC cord built in and the H1a has no flash shoe and my PC-to-shoe adaptors were in the stolen camera bag) on a PC extension cord plugged into the X socket of the H1a, and set it nearby, pointed at the slave. After several shots like that at different magnifications, I turned the head of the AF280T to point _at_ the light bulb (and therefore, I hope, splashing the lamp's reflector). If, when I get the prints back, I decide this more or less worked, I'll know how to improvise a modelling light for macro. I'm not sure the lamp is bright enough to give me a good idea what it'll do from farther away, but if this works then I can proceed to experiment with similar approaches for non-macro lighting in the future (until I do manage to come up with the money to buy studio lights someday, anyhow). I didn't worry much about how bright the incandescent lamp was, because it was effectively a one-light setup (the Vivitar was only adding a little indirect light, and much of that was bouncing off the lamp's reflector anyhow, I think) and the incandescent was at least four stops dimmer than the flash. I wouldn't want to leave the black plastic of the AF280T's casing next to an incandescent bulb very long, of course, but this didn't take very long. -- Glenn, about to go to sleep - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Gone for a while
Good luck, Mafud. We'll miss you around here and will look forward to having you back. Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good-bye all. For the next two months or so, I'll be off the PDML list. I'm marrying off my youngest (33) ( #5 of 5) daughter this week. On my return, I'm scheduled for Abdominal Aortic Aneurysm repair. (Open chest repair of the aorta leading from my heart to my lower extremities.) I chose this surgical procedure over having a shunt shoved up my leg into the Aorta. That method requires 3 MRI exams a year for life. With this type of surgery, Allah be willing, I'll recover with no addition follow-up needed. It also means at least six weeks of my being sedentary. Worse, Haiti Dominica are out, as is shooting Polo (and rich Polo pony owners) in Florida. If my days are numbered, I'm happy knowing I'll be laid to rest at Arlington National Cemetery. You might send ~inquiry~ mail to my [EMAIL PROTECTED] address. Someone is always monitoring that site. Mafud - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Gone for a while
Get well soon Mafud. This group won't be the same without you. Take care, Dan Scott Good-bye all. For the next two months or so, I'll be off the PDML list. I'm marrying off my youngest (33) ( #5 of 5) daughter this week. On my return, I'm scheduled for Abdominal Aortic Aneurysm repair. (Open chest repair of the aorta leading from my heart to my lower extremities.) I chose this surgical procedure over having a shunt shoved up my leg into the Aorta. That method requires 3 MRI exams a year for life. With this type of surgery, Allah be willing, I'll recover with no addition follow-up needed. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Primes Vs. Zooms: was: Re: More on croppng (Was: An important step)
William Robb wrote: Even in medium format, there are only a handful of zooms available from all the manufacturers combined. Pentax makes a whole ONE zoom for the 67: the 55-100. -Aaron - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Gone for a while
Take care and good luck Mafud! Lasse - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 8:58 AM Subject: Gone for a while Good-bye all. For the next two months or so, I'll be off the PDML list. I'm marrying off my youngest (33) ( #5 of 5) daughter this week. On my return, I'm scheduled for Abdominal Aortic Aneurysm repair. (Open chest repair of the aorta leading from my heart to my lower extremities.) I chose this surgical procedure over having a shunt shoved up my leg into the Aorta. That method requires 3 MRI exams a year for life. With this type of surgery, Allah be willing, I'll recover with no addition follow-up needed. It also means at least six weeks of my being sedentary. Worse, Haiti Dominica are out, as is shooting Polo (and rich Polo pony owners) in Florida. If my days are numbered, I'm happy knowing I'll be laid to rest at Arlington National Cemetery. You might send ~inquiry~ mail to my [EMAIL PROTECTED] address. Someone is always monitoring that site. Mafud - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Bodies Roll Call, new member
Chris Brogden wrote: On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, Martin Albrecht wrote: I have [snip] 2 MX Hey, Aaron, it's about time for you to get another few LX's, isn't it? N! I was saving that money for an MZ-S!! Grrr! -Aaron - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Bresson a cropper?
Shel Belinkoff wrote: A black border is not necessarily an indication of a full-frame, or uncropped, print. Borders can be printed in, and they often are. I have read that HC-B has done just that in some instances, but I've never seen documentation of that. I faked a frame edge last week for a lady who wanted her image cropped but also wanted the carrier edge effect. I was quite pleased with the result, since it was more controllable than the actual carrier edge. Yes, I am a cheater...but I charge extra to soothe my tortured soul, so it's okay. ;) -Aaron - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: MZ-S Press Release in Japan Part I (Was: Silver MZ-S)
Take translated: Many customers urged us to produce a camera adopting many features AND quick operation system settings. [snip] In this context, MZ-S has been developed in order to fulfill "both simple operation of dial system, and many features and quick setting of computerisation". It enhances many features, while it offers newly invented operational system with easy-to-understand interface and quick setting. We also gave the camera heavy consideration of usability, high reliability, joy of possession, and completeness, which many photographers have been demanding. We have concentrated, in this AF SLR system, our long history of pursuing "really usable camera" and of our technology in developing SLR systems. Whatever the MZ-S will turn out to be like in practical shooting, I really like their objective as described above. No hype about excessive features, and an emphasis on usability etc. That's my type of company. Let's hope that the market will make them able to continue in this tradition. (Now, if they'd only get som image stabilisation system going too...) (Thanks for translating, Take.) Lasse - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Silver MZ-S
Takehiko wrote: All these items are put on the show just for reference. They claim that all the specifications are NOT final yet. This is starting getting really mysterious. What are they up to? Are they really trying to tell us that specifications still may change? Now that preroduction samples are shown to customers and dealers. What prevents them from saying that this is the MZ-S and will be released shortly? Pl - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: MZ-S Press Release in Japan Part I (Was: Silver MZ-S)
Takehiko wrote: We also gave the camera heavy consideration of usability, high reliability, joy of possession, and completeness, which many photographers have been demanding. Joy of possesion refer to material and built quality; the same phrase is used for the Limited lenses. Note also that Pentax stress photographers demand. Small size, high reliability, metal body and simple interface is what Pentax users on PDML and other, similar groups have been demanding. Pl - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: March Comments #1
On Sat, 03 Mar 2001 07:49:59 -0500, Collin Brendemuehl wrote: " Wild Konik horses in the "Oostvaarders plassen" swamp area " by Jan van Wijk, Netherlands Great wildlife shot. You should send it to some national archive that documents your country's wildlife. Thanks for the nice comment Collin! There are also quite some birds there sometimes even rare ones like a fishing-eagle. Actualy I plan to make a collection/gallery based on that area It's just 10 miles from home. I'll put it out on my website as soon as it's more or less complete, and I catch up with scanning :-) Regards, JvW - Jan van Wijk; www.fsys.demon.nl - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: Ektapress vs. Supra
Hi all, Thanks to those of you who replied to my question on the Kodak emulsions. The comments were quite helpful. The higher contrast Joe refers to -- what Mafud describes as that extra "pop" -- would probably be a benefit for astrophotographic subjects. If these emulsions have Kodak's typically better red sensitivity (vs. Fuji), they should yield some very nice prints. Now, if the weather would only cooperate Again, many thanks! Bill Peifer Rochester, NY - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Bresson a cropper?
Tom wrote: Interesting. I didn't know a lens had a point of view. I thought that was what the photographer decided. Point of view (perspective and angle) are decided by location. You use your feet to get it correct. Framing is decided by focal length (or cropping) you use your zoom lens, or cropping to control it. In fact, I would say, you loose 1/2 of your picture making capability when you refuse to use either. Of course, that makes it simpler, but so does using a camera without adjustable aperture and shutter speed. Well, that's nicely sarcastic, but what it shows is that you and I have a fundamentally different conception of how pictures are made. "Point of view" was colloquial; it's called field angle. What you're presuming is that when you photograph there's going to be an obvious "picture" out there in the world that you already know you want, and that your job is to somehow zero in on it--and that you then must do this with your feet or your zoom lens. That attitude is what's simplistic. It presumes that there's a simple view of a "subject" and that it's obvious what should be "included" and "excluded" in order to make that view into a picture. That may be fine for scenics and standard views and formula pictures, but most pictures aren't like that (at least, not the pictures I like. Your mileage may differ.) I don't believe that's the way most good photographers see, necessarily. Rather, they're constantly looking, constantly seeing, then reacting to what they see, and that "composition" is the work of an instant, an almost thoughtless overlay of the viewfinder on the view. This process is faster and more efficient and more logical and more intuitive when they don't have to make picayune little "cropping" decisions at the moment of exposure. Rather, if they know in their minds what their lens is going to take in, they automatically arrange the framing to compensate. With more photographs than not, it doesn't matter anyway if the lens takes in a little more or less than what's optimal. Who's to say what's "optimal" anyway? Many times it's a distinction without a difference. Photographers just arrange the viewfinder naturally to balance whatever they're looking at, and go. I've been thinking about this over the past several days and, of the hundreds of photographers whose work I admire or respect, I can't think of a single one of them who is known to use a zoom lens. At least that I know of. Except _maybe_ Joyce Tennyson when she does portraits--I think she uses the fast Canon standard zoom. Of course most of her work is done with a view camera. Hell, the cameras that 60-70% of my favorite photographers use don't even _accept_ zoom lenses (Leica Ms or view cameras). Now how do you suppose they did it? How did they manage when they had missed out on "1/2 of the picture making capability" that you enjoy with your zoom? And if you've got a 100% advantage on Cartier-Bresson, Eisenstadt, Haas, Sam Abell, Galen Rowell, David Muench, and on and on, are your pictures naturally a lot better than theirs? Seems like they should be, with all that capability at your fingertips. Look, the bottom line is, there are no rules with any of this stuff. Hell, none of any of our pictures are going to amount to a hill of beans to anybody else in the world but ourselves and our immediate families in the end anyway. All that matters is what you like to use and whether your pictures satisfy you. If you like zoom lenses, who the hell am I to tell you not to use 'em? Knock yourself out. But I'll bet if anybody on this list got a chance to do some moderately heavy shooting for a few days--say, 5 rolls a day over the course of a 10-day vacation, of some subject matter that really engaged them--9 out of 10 would end up doing better work with one LX and one $30 50/2 than they would with a bagful of crap that included however many fancy klunky big ol' zoom lenses you want to name. If you don't buy that, well, fine. But it's a bet I'd be happy to take. --Mike - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: Ebay: Pentax Diopter FocusAdjuster , Spotmatic
Yes, except that the one you referenced is a cheap, aftermarket version. There is another up right now that is the real deal and comes with case - in Accessories, I think it was ppro -Original Message- From: Paul Jones [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 11:04 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Ebay: Pentax Diopter FocusAdjuster , Spotmatic Wasnt some one after one of these a few weeks back: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=1219236799 - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Primes Vs. Zooms: was: Re: More on croppng (Was: An important step)
On 6 Mar 2001, at 9:41, Tom Rittenhouse wrote: Bill, I find it interesting that you have again and again disparaged the use of zooms and cropping in this never ending thread (renamed several times), and that your gallery entry this month is a highly cropped zoom lens photo. How do you reconcile this? Hi Tom, I will take a gamble on this ( tell me how wrong I am Bill ), I suspect Bill is referring to considered composition not simply grab shots (like Bill's sucessful PUG entry to which you refer)? For many PJs the only image that matters is one that has the main subject smack in the middle of the frame and covering most of it (=happy editor). This maybe one of the differences in perspective that seems to cause irritation between the PJ/portrait/street/macro/scenery shooters? All have differing agendas. In my style of shooting zoom capability would rarely be advantageous whereas a for PJ whose job depends on frame filling in-your-face shots a zoom capability might be mandatory (as may IS)? Cheers, Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 Fax +61-2-9554-9259 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications.html - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Bresson a cropper?
On 6 Mar 2001, at 9:10, Mike Johnston wrote: But I'll bet if anybody on this list got a chance to do some moderately heavy shooting for a few days--say, 5 rolls a day over the course of a 10-day vacation, of some subject matter that really engaged them--9 out of 10 would end up doing better work with one LX and one $30 50/2 than they would with a bagful of crap that included however many fancy klunky big ol' zoom lenses you want to name. If you don't buy that, well, fine. But it's a bet I'd be happy to take. Maybe. I started out with primes, and I tend to use my zooms as primes. Usually I think of my 28-70 as a 28, 35, 50 and 70, and preset to one of those focal lengths before I put the camera to my eye. Anyone else do this? tv - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
MZ-S Press Release in Japan Part II (Was: Silver MZ-S)
Hi all again, Here is the rest of the release, features and specs. I don't think anything have changed from what we have seen so far. Here we go again; _ Features 1. Operation dial slanted to the photographer, at the top of the body ---It's totally unique design which improves, while ---fulfilling many features, operational feeling and ---visibility. 2. Hyper Operating System shifting exposure modes in a moment 3. Newly developed six-point AF sensor 4. Highly evaluated six-area exposure sensor 5. Shutter mechanism with highest 1/6000 and 1/180 flash sync 6. Focus lock which considers mobility 7. Data printing system 8. 19 custom functions 9. Durable magnesium alloy diecast exterior 10. Accessory system including flash and battery grip developed along with the body Specifications (for reference) *Note that this is not final specification; Type: Multi Mode TTL Auto Exposure AF 35mm SLR with built-in TTL Flash Film Size: 24x36mm Lens Mount: Pentax KAF2 Mount (KAF, KA and K acceptable) with mounting sign light-up Auto Fucus: System: SAFOX VII six-point AF Capability: EV-1 to 18 (ISO100, f1.4 lens) Modes: AF single, AF servo, and Manual Applicable lens: KAF2 and KAF (AF adaptor allows KA and K lenses to AF) Movement Prediction: Yes (AF servo mode) Focus Lock: Yes Focus Points Shift: Auto, Lock and Select modes Shutter: Type: Electrically controlled vertical focal plane Speed: Programme and Av--1/6000 to 30 sec Tv and Manual---1/6000 to 30 sec (1/2 EV steps) and Bulb X sync---1/180 to 30 sec and Bulb Drive Modes: Single frame, Continuous, Multi exposure and Self Timer (12 sec and 2 sec) Power Zoom: Type: Applicable to dedicated KAF2 lenses Functions: Manual zooming Focusing with zoom ring operation Retracting with switching off Metering: Type: TTL open aperture six-point metering Capability: EV 0 to 21 (ISO100, f1.4 lens) Modes: Centre-weighted, multi points, spot Exposure Modes: Programme, Av, Tv, Manual/Bulb (Programme with flash sync applicable) Compensation: +-3 EV (1/2 EV steps) AE Lock: Enabled Film Sensibility: DX(ISO 25-5000), Manual (ISO 6-6400, 1/3 EX steps) Auto Bracketing: +-1/2 or +-1 EV steps 3, 2 or 5 frames Finder: Type: Fixed Glass Prism Finder Screen: Natural Bright Matte (Interchangeable) Diopter: -2.5 to +1.5m-1 Area: 92% x 92% Magnification: 0.75x (50/1.4 at infinity, -1m-1) Inside signs: Tv, Av, Exposure compensation mark, exposure bar graph, focusing sign, flash info, AE lock, AF point(s), AF frame Bult-in Flash: Type: Retractable electronically controlled TTL auto flash GN: 12 (ISO100) Angle: Covers 24mm lens Sync: Shoe: X, hot shoe Speed: 1/180 or lower Drive: Auto Loading (Re)Winding: Automatic FPS: 2.5 Rewinding in between: Enabled LCD Signs: Film, Loading error, Frames, (Re)Winding, ISO, Exposure mode, Tv, Av, Flash fill-in, Flash alert, Red eye reduction, Flash charge, Wireless, High speed, Data printing, Pentax functions, Battery alert, PCV beeps Data Printing: Location: Between perforation over the frame Data: 0(zero) frame (Film number, ISO, Printing configuration) Each frame (Exposure mode, Metering mode, Tv, Av, Exposure compensation, AEB(with auto bracketing only)) Date Printing: Type: Quartz controlled LCD digital calendar watch (auto configuration till year 2049) Modes, YMD, DHM, no printing Battery: CR2 x 2 Pentax Functions: 1. PCV beeps 2. Programme line 3. Auto Bracketing frames 4. Auto Bracketing order 5. Metering points weight according to AF points 6. AE lock with AF button 7. Film sensibility check with loading 8. AF points back-up 9. Release lock before charging flash 10. Built-in flash configuration with wireless mode 11. Light-up button configuration with wireless mode 12. Film rewinding modes 13. Function mode when finishing a roll 14. Self timer configuration 15. Data printing density 16. Release button functions 17. Tv dial rotating order 18. Mount light-up 19. IR remote configuration Dimension: 136.5W x 95H x 64L (mm) Weight: 520g without battery
Re: Gone for a while
Good luck Mafud and congratulations on the marriage of your daughter. Evan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good-bye all. For the next two months or so, I'll be off the PDML list. I'm marrying off my youngest (33) ( #5 of 5) daughter this week. On my return, I'm scheduled for Abdominal Aortic Aneurysm repair. (Open chest repair of the aorta leading from my heart to my lower extremities.) I chose this surgical procedure over having a shunt shoved up my leg into the Aorta. That method requires 3 MRI exams a year for life. With this type of surgery, Allah be willing, I'll recover with no addition follow-up needed. It also means at least six weeks of my being sedentary. Worse, Haiti Dominica are out, as is shooting Polo (and rich Polo pony owners) in Florida. If my days are numbered, I'm happy knowing I'll be laid to rest at Arlington National Cemetery. You might send ~inquiry~ mail to my [EMAIL PROTECTED] address. Someone is always monitoring that site. Mafud - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Bresson a cropper?
On 6 Mar 2001, at 9:10, Mike Johnston wrote: But I'll bet if anybody on this list got a chance to do some moderately heavy shooting for a few days--say, 5 rolls a day over the course of a 10-day vacation, of some subject matter that really engaged them--9 out of 10 would end up doing better work with one LX and one $30 50/2 than they would with a bagful of crap that included however many fancy klunky big ol' zoom lenses you want to name. If you don't buy that, well, fine. But it's a bet I'd be happy to take. Can't we use a 20, 28 and 50? Plse. Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 Fax +61-2-9554-9259 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications.html - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Re[4]: More on cropping (Was: An important step)
Mafud wrote: Adams had 1) resources that let him stay on site for weeks, giving him the opportunity to shoot sheet after sheet of film at his chosen target. 2) Adams had gobs of ~time~ to perfect his craft on site, dumping the miscues and bad exposures. I've heard a wag say: "Following him (Adams) around would have been lucrative, just by recovering the silver out of all that film." HCB probably did the same, his "spontaneity" probably overplayed by his devotees. 3) Adams (and HCB) were masters over the easel Some of this isn't even remotely true. Adams had to do commercial work into his _seventies_ to make ends meet, and HCB almost never went into a darkroom in his life--he claimed to be allergic to developer. Hardly a "master over the easel." --Mike - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: Nice site for screwmount lovers
Thanks for the referral, ppro http://whitemetal.com/pentax/index.htm - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Woops
Forgot huh, that wine must be pretty good! Hey Bill - that's pretty cool. I'll check out the import rules. If it turns out sending the wine would be breaking the law, then just send money and I'll buy wine here! Just kidding. Actually in that case one of the labels itself, would be a reward. Thanks - this will make points with my wife towards the 67II. When the person that used HER work, recommends to me that a 67II is the way to go - Hah - the wall begins to fall. Tom C. - Original Message - From: "William Robb" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 4:52 PM Subject: Re: Woops Geese, I had forgotten where I got that from. I owe you a bottle of Merlot. It made a lovely label. Send me your address, and the wine is on it's way, providing your government will allow importation of it (check on it from your end please). We just had a couple of instances here in Canada where the post office declared wine as dangerous goods and refused to deliver it to the addressee. The real pisser is that the way the autocracy is set up in Canada, the people who the wine was addressed to had no recourse whatsoever. Thanks Bill - Original Message - From: "aimcompute" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: March 5, 2001 6:21 PM Subject: Re: Woops I'm telling... I'm telling. Looking up the number for the cropper-coppers this minute. Don't be surprised if you get a knock on your door in the wee-hours. g BTW, my wife was curious if you ever used her castle painting as the basis for a wine label. If you didn't that's fine. Just curious. Tom C. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: Primes Vs. Zooms: was: Re: More on croppng (Was: An important step)
I can't help but reply to this, and I will probably regret doing so... But here goes... Actually, the only thing prime only shooters have is faster-maybe sharper. What other outstanding attributes do primes offer a "pro" zoom won't? Well, without commenting about image quality, flexibility, and convenience (all components of zoom value), zoom lenses have - more complicated construction, - more moving parts, more elements, and - cannot have an "ideal" lens hood attached. The mechanical construction makes for a lens that will certainly not last as long. "Pro" zooms will perhaps have a much longer life than non-"Pro" zooms, but both will not live as long as a "Pro" prime. This is a practical consideration that will not affect image quality (initially) and so it is left to the photographer to decide the importance of this. "Pro" zooms will be more costly. This also is left to the photographer to decide. (It is valid to argue that the cost of a zoom is actually less than that 30lb bag of primes covering the same range of focal lengths). Debates about image quality never get resolved, so humor me when I say that more elements will have some impact on image contrast and sharpness, less so with "Pro" zooms but still theoretically relevant. Against missing the shot while "fumbling", these factors are arguably insignificant. In other words the photo made with a zoom, regardless of its potential technical shortcomings, is better than no shot at all. The photographer should have the experience to know when this trade-off is meaningful and _choose the tool for the job_: - Photographers with time and fairly static subjects will benefit from using prime lenses; - the fast moving, PJ-style photog will probably be better off with the zoom. what would HCB, Adams and the other "prime only" greats have produced had quality zooms, such as todays, been available to them? Well, HCB, IMHO, would probably have used a zoom. It fits the application he often applied himself to. On the other hand, I find it amusing to picture Ansel Adams, perched atop his 4WD-vehicle, with his sheet-film view camera, and a zoom lens. I think it unlikely that Mr. Adams would have see any benefit to the way he works nor, especially, to his final product. With the time it takes to set up, load film, execute the zone system of exposure and processing, it is unlikely that the zoom would have made his photographs (or his life) any better. With the time he took to do his work, he would certainly (again, based on my interpretation of everything I have read about him) wanted the sharpest, most contrasty lens he could lay hands on. So if you accept my impression of HIS style, I don't think the zoom lens fit Mr. Adams applications. I do have rucksack (well actually several Halliburtons full) of primes (all Pentax) and their zooms (all Pentax) as well. My habit is to assess my shooting needs for the assignment and decide based on that which case(s) to bring. If I need to travel light or I need to shoot a variety of situations fast, the zoom naturally goes along. If I am shooting static subjects, plain and simple, the zoom stays home (or at least stays in the case). If I am not sure, I bring it just in case. I have made photos with zooms that could not be made with any other kind of lens, no matter how hard one might try. I have made photos with primes that could just as easily been made with a zoom but were not because I chose otherwise. My legs still work so it's not too hard to take a few steps this way or that if I need to adjust the composition. One last comment - zooms, at least the larger ones, are quite obtrusive. I don't like the attention they attract. I can run around all day with a 150mm mounted and have no one looking at me. But the minute I put on an 85~210, all of a sudden, I am the center of attention. Not very useful if you want to go unnoticed. It's all about the application. (IMHO) Paul M. Provencher (ppro) http://whitemetal.com/pentax/index.htm - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Bresson a cropper?
Rib Studdert wrote: Can't we use a 20, 28 and 50? Plse. Sure! Heck, you can stand upside down if you want, and have summer in the winter!! g, d, r --Mike - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Gone for a while
God speed Mafud, and congrats on your daughter's wedding. DG At 02:58 AM 3/6/01 -0500, you wrote: Good-bye all. For the next two months or so, I'll be off the PDML list. I'm marrying off my youngest (33) ( #5 of 5) daughter this week. On my return, I'm scheduled for Abdominal Aortic Aneurysm repair. (Open chest repair of the aorta leading from my heart to my lower extremities.) I chose this surgical procedure over having a shunt shoved up my leg into the Aorta. That method requires 3 MRI exams a year for life. With this type of surgery, Allah be willing, I'll recover with no addition follow-up needed. It also means at least six weeks of my being sedentary. Worse, Haiti Dominica are out, as is shooting Polo (and rich Polo pony owners) in Florida. If my days are numbered, I'm happy knowing I'll be laid to rest at Arlington National Cemetery. You might send ~inquiry~ mail to my [EMAIL PROTECTED] address. Someone is always monitoring that site. Mafud - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: OT: eBay PENTAX SMC-M ZOOM LENS 35-70 2.8-3.5 FAST
Not mine either but this is a great lens. You don't find them often in this kind of condition. I've had one since the mid eighties and it looks it but still takes great pictures. A good lens for a M series or K series camera particularly if you are only going to have one lens. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: effective f-stop and exposure time
Frank Wajer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, how does a manual camera like an MX know what the correct exposure time is with for example a macro lens. As the magnification increases the eff. f-stop increases so exposure should be longer right? But the MX doesn't know the current magnification so how does it do correct exposure time. Only thing I can think of is that a macro lens doesn't have an automatic aperture. Hi Frank, The light that comes through the lens decreases as the magnification increases, so the meter should be able to display the right esposure. You can check this by setting the right speed and aperture with the lens pointed to a plain surface and the focus set to infinity. Then focus down to the maximum magnification of the lens: you'll see the meter reading underexposure progressively. Gianfranco Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
PZ-1p on ebay
Mistakenly listed under Nikon. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=1218349587 Evan - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: effective f-stop and exposure time
Hi I'm not a macro expert. MX is a "manual" camera all right, but it still has TTL measuring at full aperture, using the Aperture Simulator in the camera lens mount to transfer information about the aperture setting to the meter circuit. Since the MX measures the light that hit the meter Throuht The Lens, the metering should be accurate, as long as the lens has a "pin", for the aperture simulator. Best Regards Jens Frank wrote: Hi, how does a manual camera like an MX know what the correct exposure time is with for example a macro lens. As the magnification increases the eff. f-stop increases so exposure should be longer right? But the MX doesn't know the current magnification so how does it do correct exposure time. Only thing I can think of is that a macro lens doesn't have an automatic aperture. Frank - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Another Pinhole Project
Actualy this might work if you are willing to do your own developing. However you will have to use ortho- chromatic film, not the normal pan-chromaitic such as tri-x etc. They don't always use standard red or yellow safe lights some use other colors. I think that various Kodak ortho films are still available in 35mm, 4x5 sheets. --- SETH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: "Steve Larson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you feel like forking out the cash, 4x5 negatives are great for pinhole...you build the camera as if you were making it for sheet paper, but you have shorter exposure times and the flexibility of contacting or enlargling from a neg. Of course, this is much cheaper if you process your own. What is "contacting"? I`m not a devoloper. John Mustarde is sending me a pinhole camera for the project, and I am very grateful. Let`s say I cut a frame of 35mm, and tape it in the camera, whilst in a dark closet using a red light, I then expose the film, then I go back in the closet and untape it and stick it in a film cannister, and take it to get developed. Does that sound like it`ll work? This won't work. Film needs to be handled in complete darkness. No red light, no light of any kind. Furthermore, how do you plan to "stick" a frame of film back into film canister? If you want to have pinhole images developed in a commercial lab, you need a pinhole camera built specifically for some sort of roll film. This could be as simple as "sacrificing" a body cap for your Pentax to make it into pinhole "lens" or you could buy Besseler 6X9 pinhole camera kit. Or for around $100 you can get a Zero Image 6X6 camera. Otherwise, you need to have your own chemicals. Out here in Canadaland, a box of 25 sheets of Tri-X is CDN $25 (though the price just shot wa up in the latest Kodak price increase), and processing runs about $3 a sheet (but varies wildly from lab to lab). Agfapan APX 100 is $16.99 for 25 sheets, and is just excellent. I`ll see how big the camera is, and see what film will fit. If the camera accepts 4X5 film, you can use photo paper as film. This can be loaded in the dark with safelight on and allows for much longer exposure times. But then you will have to do your own develoment, which is neither difficult nor expensive. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: questions on PZ-1p
Ralf Engelmann wrote: There is either a third party grip with alternative battery choice and vertical shutter release (http://www.wdcamengineering.com/pentax.htm, now really available(!), picture at: http://i8.yimg.com/8/50d617d/g/b79f3ed7.jpg), or at Pentax an ergonomy grip FDp with additional tripod mount metal plate and hand strap. Do you know how much it costs? Is it available to buy or do we have to wait? Alex -- --- Alexandre A. P. Suaide, Ph.D. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Physics Department University of Sao Paulo - BrazilPhone: 1-313-577-5419 Wayne State University - MI -USAICQ number: 78139605 --- - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: MZ-S Press Release in Japan Part II (Was: Silver MZ-S)
Thank you Take! Dan Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: effective f-stop and exposure time
The same way it knows the correct exposure time when the light changes. All the MX knows is the amount of light entering the lens wide open and where the follower on the lens is set. As aperture ring is changed the follower changes position and the MX knows how much less, (or more if you're opening the aperture), light to expect at the time of actual exposure. It's more or less a simple matter of addition or subtraction, (OK so that's a gross oversimplification but good enough for the basic concept). The camera's internal light meter doesn't have to know the magnification. It's only if you are using an external light meter then the __photographer_ will have to know the magnification to compensate for the difference in exposure. --- Frank Wajer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, how does a manual camera like an MX know what the correct exposure time is with for example a macro lens. As the magnification increases the eff. f-stop increases so exposure should be longer right? But the MX doesn't know the current magnification so how does it do correct exposure time. Only thing I can think of is that a macro lens doesn't have an automatic aperture. Frank - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Bresson a cropper?
- Original Message - From: "Mike Johnston" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: March 6, 2001 9:12 AM Subject: Re: Bresson a cropper? Mafud wrote: Did he stick his eye to the viewfinder, level the camera then shoot...always? If so, ~he~ did not crop...but his camera[s] sure did. What in the world are you talking about? Hold that thought. It may be a while for an answer. Wheatfield Willie --Mike - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Primes Vs. Zooms: was: Re: More on croppng (Was: An important step)
- Original Message - From: "Tom Rittenhouse" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: March 6, 2001 8:41 AM Subject: Re: Primes Vs. Zooms: was: Re: More on croppng (Was: An important step) Bill, I find it interesting that you have again and again disparaged the use of zooms and cropping in this never ending thread (renamed several times), and that your gallery entry this month is a highly cropped zoom lens photo. How do you reconcile this? Ho Tom: I went back through my posts on the subject, and while I have been critical of the use of zoom lenses in the hands of the tyro, for reasons which I won't get into again, and while I have advocated filling the frame, rather than deliberately wasting image area, which is a precious commodity with the 35mm format, I don't think I have ever stated as a hard and fast rule that zooms are bad, or that cropping is evil. Of course, I could be wrong. Nice shot, by the way, you may be the only photographer ever to photograph a roll over in a gymkhana. Thank you for the compliment. It was a total fluke to even get the car in the frame. Usually, my subjects sit still for me in a warm studio setting, so this was a challenging experience, both from a personal comfort POV and from a getting something useful on film. I have a lot more respect for the guys that shoot auto racing now, and can certainly see why they prefer cameras like the F5 or EOS-1 for it. Bill - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: questions on PZ-1p
I don't see a vertical shutter release switch! :-( Regards, Bob S. Alex quoted and asked... Ralf Engelmann wrote: There is either a third party grip with alternative battery choice and vertical shutter release (http://www.wdcamengineering.com/pentax.htm, now really available(!), picture at: http://i8.yimg.com/8/50d617d/g/b79f3ed7.jpg), or at Pentax an ergonomy grip FDp with additional tripod mount metal plate and hand strap. Do you know how much it costs? Is it available to buy or do we have to wait? - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: MZ-S Press Release in Japan Part II (Was: Silver MZ-S)
- Original Message - From: "Dan Scott" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 12:01 PM Subject: Re: MZ-S Press Release in Japan Part II (Was: Silver MZ-S) Thank you Take! Dan Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Lens advice please
Hello all Some advice from you knowledgeable people please. Sunday morning I want to take a few shots of the Cape Argus Cycle Tour which goes right around the Peninsula and happily right past my house. But I know that the leaders race past at breakneck speed just about sunrise when the light is poor. It is not a good idea in my opinion to use flash so I want to use the available light with 200 ISO colour film (which I tend to use most of the time anyhow). I have the following lenses I could use: Super-Tak 55/1.8, SMC-Tak 55.1.8, Pentax-A 50/2 and Pentax-A 50/1.7. I know there is not much difference between them speed wise but which one will be the best performer at about f2? Alternatively I could use the 50/1.4 Nikkor on my F3 but I would like to use the Spotmatic if at all possible just for old-times sake so I am hoping the vote will be for one of the two M42 lenses. Conrad F. Samuels Kirstenhof SA - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Bodies Roll Call UPDATE 65
Please send the messages to me directly, to not disturb other members, thanks. Also, I've not included 110 and digital cameras, just because I started this way, and I didn't want to change in the middle of the way. Also, if you already submited and want to add new items, please put clearly in your message: this is not my first submission, so I don't put you twice in the total answers. Thanks to all contributors. TOTAL ANSWERS: 338 members MANUAL FOCUS: Screw Mount: - Asahiflex IIa3 - Asahiflex IIb2 - Asahi Pentax (AP)3 - K2 - SL...8 - SV..10 - S1a..9 - S2...1 - S3...2 - SP500...10 - SP1000...9 - Spotmatic...30 - Spotmatic II13 - Spotmatic IIa1 - Spotmatic SP22 - Spotmatic SP II..7 - Spotmatic F.33 - Spotmatic F MD...2 - Spotmatic MD.3 - ES..14 - ES II...20 - ElectroSpotmatic.3 - H1...2 - H1a..5 - H2...4 - H3...3 - H3v..5 Bayonette: - KM12 - KX34 - KX MD..1 - K226 - K2 DMD.7 - K1000.65 - K1000 SE...6 - MX...113 - ME33 - ME SE..1 - ME Super.103 - ME Super SE2 - MV.6 - MG12 - LX...108 - Super Program.60 - Super A...33 - Program Plus..15 - Program A.10 - A3000..3 - A3.2 - A3(date)...1 - P3.6 - P3n6 - P308 - P30t..11 - P5.5 - P501 - ZX M..18 - MZ M...9 AUTOFOCUS: - ME F..11 - SF 1...5 - SFX3 - SF 1n..5 - SFXn...9 - SF 7...2 - SF 10..6 - PZ 1..18 - PZ 1 SE1 - Z121 - PZ 1p.59 - Z1p...39 - PZ 10..5 - Z 10...1 - PZ 20..9 - Z 20...3 - PZ 70..6 - Z 70...2 - Z5.1 - MZ 3..16 - ZX 5...7 - MZ 5..11 - ZX 5n.46 - MZ 5n.32 - ZX 7...8 - MZ 7...6 - ZX 10..9 - MZ 10.12 - ZX 30..5 - ZX 50..5 - MZ 50..6 MEDIUM FORMAT: - 64516 - 645n3 - 6x7.9 - 67.10 - 67 II...6 - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Primes Vs. Zooms
Mike wrote (in the Bresson thread) But I'll bet if anybody on this list got a chance to do some moderately heavy shooting for a few days--say, 5 rolls a day over the course of a 10-day vacation, of some subject matter that really engaged them--9 out of 10 would end up doing better work with one LX and one $30 50/2 than they would with a bagful of crap that included however many fancy klunky big ol' zoom lenses you want to name. If you don't buy that, well, fine. But it's a bet I'd be happy to take."" In the site Pentaxclover mentioned yesterday somebody tried exactly that. (merci Clover, nice link) An old Leica M2 with 50mm versus the F100 with 80-200f2.8 Interesting results, even if you don't understand French (many pictures) http://www.pictchallenge.com/diabolpif/Montoire1.html and http://www.pictchallenge.com/diabolpif/Montoire2.html For those who don't understand French, for the tester it came down to being certain to get the picture in the bag with the F100, versus the occasional more original shots, while throwing away a lot, with the Leica. Erwin - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Madison Skyline
Congrats, Collin! One kind comment to me about my gallery shot was to send info on to the Madison CofC. So I did. They like is and asked about my pricing! How thrilling. Now all I need is a new pricing schedule. It's been a few years since having one so I've got to make one. Should be fun. Thanks, Collin - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: F, A, FA and FA* lens-except
Alin wrote : Just watch closely the relationship between advertising volume and the test results... it's unfortunate as I like otherwise ChdI. Sorry, I am not agree with this ! You know Minolta was in trouble because the test of the Maxxum/Dynax 7 is very good. So they ask CI to choose 25 Photographs (pro or not) to try the D7. And the conclusions is that the D7 is really wonderfull. (I know someone who made the test ! It was ME !) You know, Canon, Nikon, Pentx or else, they know what the tests show , so they choose the moment for put more or less advertising! If you really think CdI is not reliable, I cannot change your mind ! If you wish to change your mind about CdI, you need to do it yourself ...That is the way I act ! [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Another Pinhole Project
I saw in a recent Outdoor Photographer a wooden 4 X 5 pinhole camera, pricey ($395 USD) for what it was... but man did it look nice. Tom C. - Original Message - From: "Treena Harp" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 4:52 PM Subject: Re: Another Pinhole Project When I was researching pinhole photography a couple of months ago, I came across Bender Photographic on the web. They have a lot of pinhole camera kits that take 120 roll film, and one that takes 35mm cartriges. They also sell Pentax body caps (for both screwmount cameras and K mount cameras) with brass pinholes built in. For anyone who wants to get into large format on the cheap, they have build-it-yourself 4x5 kits for less than $300, and I think they offer 8x10, too. Hope this helps. I'd like to try a little pinhole photography myself. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Primes Vs. Zooms: was: Re: More on croppng (Was: An important step)
- Original Message - From: "Rob Studdert" Subject: Re: Primes Vs. Zooms: was: Re: More on croppng (Was: An important step) Hi Tom, I will take a gamble on this ( tell me how wrong I am Bill ), I suspect Bill is referring to considered composition not simply grab shots (like Bill's sucessful PUG entry to which you refer)? For many PJs the only image that matters is one that has the main subject smack in the middle of the frame and covering most of it (=happy editor). This maybe one of the differences in perspective that seems to cause irritation between the PJ/portrait/street/macro/scenery shooters? All have differing agendas. In my style of shooting zoom capability would rarely be advantageous whereas a for PJ whose job depends on frame filling in-your-face shots a zoom capability might be mandatory (as may IS)? What I find sad about this thread is that the PJ card got played immediately, like as if that is the only way to photograph something. "Get it now, get it while it's hot" seems to be the mentality. I don't work that way, I never have. I think that it is cheating the subject to work that way. It may be the way the modern photojournalist has to work, but this says more about the ethics of modern photojournalism than about quality photography. Photo journalism used to be about photo essays. It was about exploring the subject with the lens, it was telling their story. Now it seems to be the visual equivalent of the political sound bite. All form, no function, and no content. Little more than page filler for the vacuous minded (there's a Mafudism for you!). And how many of us (that "us" is people with cameras in general, not people on this list) are working photojournalists? Most of us don't make a living with our cameras. Mostly we are shooting for pleasure. So why fall into the modern PJ mentality? Why not fall into the older PJ mentality where pictures meant something about the subject? As amateur photographers, we have that option. We can do it better. We can tell the story. We don't have to play Rambo with our cameras. We can do it for love, which is where the term "amateur" originated. The grab shooter may get the best picture they can from a particular situation, but that does not mean they have gotten a good picture. I let more pictures get away than I shoot, simply because I am not willing to deliberately take bad pictures on general principles. As a bit of evidence relating to getting the best of a bad situation, I invite you to click on the following link: http://www.accesscomm.ca/users/wrobb/general/tipover2.jpg It really isn't a particularly good photograph. Just the best I got in the situation. I am sure that a "real" photojournalist would have done better. They could hardly have done worse. But a real PJ also does it for a living, day in and day out. I don't. Perhaps this says my skill level isn't up to snuff, and I would agree. My forte is in the field or studio with large slow moving cameras. It is what I enjoy, as a photo hobbiest who does the occassional (and getting more so every year) paying job, I have that luxury. I think most of us do, if we care to admit it. Thanks for reading William Robb - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Another Pinhole Project
Aaron wrote: 126 is pretty much a dead format...the only people who can process and print it are either custom labs or places with late '70s to mid '80s minilabs (anything newer than mid-'80s and they wouldn't have bothered spending the money on the mask or lens sets for 126). Konica may still produce their 126 film, but Agfa, Fuji and Kodak have all stopped. If you feel like forking out the cash, 4x5 negatives are great for pinhole...you build the camera as if you were making it for sheet paper, but you have shorter exposure times and the flexibility of contacting or enlargling from a neg. Of course, this is much cheaper if you process your own. Out here in Canadaland, a box of 25 sheets of Tri-X is CDN $25 (though the price just shot wa up in the latest Kodak price increase), and processing runs about $3 a sheet (but varies wildly from lab to lab). Agfapan APX 100 is $16.99 for 25 sheets, and is just excellent. -Aaron and Peter wrote: Actualy this might work if you are willing to do your own developing. However you will have to use ortho- chromatic film, not the normal pan-chromaitic such as tri-x etc. They don't always use standard red or yellow safe lights some use other colors. I think that various Kodak ortho films are still available in 35mm, 4x5 sheets. and Texdance wrote: That's the ticket! The camera I am sending Steve will accept sheet film/paper up to about 4x5. Sounds like the idea of using BW print paper instead of film should work great. Geez - a large format (4x5) pinhole - now why am I giving this thing away? I coulda been famous... maybe started a whole new school of photography... wa. and Treena wrote: When I was researching pinhole photography a couple of months ago, I came across Bender Photographic on the web. They have a lot of pinhole camera kits that take 120 roll film, and one that takes 35mm cartriges. They also sell Pentax body caps (for both screwmount cameras and K mount cameras) with brass pinholes built in. For anyone who wants to get into large format on the cheap, they have build-it-yourself 4x5 kits for less than $300, and I think they offer 8x10, too. Hope this helps. I'd like to try a little pinhole photography myself. I write: ]I thank all of you for responding to my little project, very kind of you. I think since I do not know about contacts and such, I`ll use a body cap on the LX with a piece of brass fastened on it. I know, I`m a chicken. Thanks again, Steve - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: F, A, FA and FA* lens-except
Pentax clover: If you really think CdI is not reliable, I cannot change your mind ! If you wish to change your mind about CdI, you need to do it yourself ...That is the way I act ! Reliable or not is really not the issue. What are they really testing and why? It may seem like strange question but in any scientific test such questions needs to be answered before you perform a test. People like CDI perform tests for the sake of it because it sell magazines. I'm sure their procedures are sound and can be repeated with the same result but what is the relevance of the test for a photographer? When every Pentax owner in the kown universe can testify that CDI's conclusion is contradictory to personal experience and others tests are we going to stop believeing in out own experience and start believeing in CDI? I repeat that anyone who design a test that only proves that shit happens is screwing their readers to sell magazines. Pl - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: What's a Kiron?
On Tue, 6 Mar 2001 14:47:40 -0500, you wrote: Saw: A Kiron lens for Pentax. 24mm, f2. ($69.00?) Whatsit? Any good atall? Never heard of this brand before Skip I'll take it, if you don't want it. Kiron lenses were made by Kino Precision Optics. They were a third party manufacturer. Some (but not all) of the Vivitar Series I lenses were made by Kiron. I suppose Kiron made lenses about as good as anyone in their day. I have a couple of Kiron zooms now, and recently got another and a 1.5x TC. All my Kiron lenses have very good build quality. In my limited experience, Kiron's build quality was equivalent to comparable Pentax lenses, and certainly equal or better than similar third party lenses by Sigma, Tokina, and Tamron. I would not hesitate to get a Kiron 24/2 for $69, assuming it does not have any major defects. That price is dirt cheap for any 24mm lens - and really a bargain for two reasons: first, the Kiron 24/2 lens is probably good enough to keep for awhile, and, second, f2 is plenty fast for a 24mm lens. -- Happy Trails, Texdance http://members.fortunecity.com/texdance http://members1.clubphoto.com/john8202 - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Primes Vs. Zooms: was: Re: More on croppng (Was: An important step)
William Robb wrote: What I find sad about this thread is that the PJ card got played immediately, like as if that is the only way to photograph something. "Get it now, get it while it's hot" seems to be the mentality. I don't work that way, I never have. I think that it is cheating the subject to work that way. Please don't use the expression "Photo Journalist" as synonymous with "unthinking grab shooter". It just isn't so. It isn't even synonymous with "photographer producing photographs on deadline". I've seen some pretty terrible landscapes, portraits, etc. Does this mean that landscape photographers, or portrait artists, are all bad photographers? No, of course it doesn't. A good photojournalist will produce good photographs. A bad one won't. The same can be said of a practitioner of any branch of photography. -- John Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Silicon Graphics, Inc. (650)933-82952011 N. Shoreline Blvd. MS 43U-991 (650)932-0828 (Fax) Mountain View, CA 94043-1389 Hello. My name is Darth Vader. I am your father. Prepare to die. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Another Pinhole Project
"Treena Harp" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I was researching pinhole photography a couple of months ago, I came across Bender Photographic on the web. They have a lot of pinhole camera kits that take 120 roll film, and one that takes 35mm cartriges. I didn't see any kits that use roll or cartrige film there. I thought he specialized in large format stuff. They also sell Pentax body caps (for both screwmount cameras and K mount cameras) with brass pinholes built in. For anyone who wants to get into large format on the cheap, they have build-it-yourself 4x5 kits for less than $300, and I think they offer 8x10, too. Hope this helps. I'd like to try a little pinhole photography myself. Bender stuff is a good idea if you want to build your own camera. If you are interested in LF, you'd do better with a nice Graphic or even an entry level Toyo 45CX kit. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Some more Blather ( Was: What's a Kiron? Re: Primes vs. Zooms )
Dosk wrote: Saw: A Kiron lens for Pentax. 24mm, f2. ($69.00?) Whatsit? Any good atall? Never heard of this brand before Skip Kino Precision ( Kiron ) was a behind the scenes third-party manufacturer. They made lenses for Panagor ( and others? ), and the made many of the early Vivitar Series 1 lenses. In the late 70's early 80's they marketed a line of fairly expensive lenses under the Kiron brand name in the US Canada. They made some very good lenses, the 24mm f2 is much in demand on eBay. I have one of their Zooms, a nice 70-210mm f4 with a 1.5x matched teleconverter, which leads me to... Zooms, In my previous photographic incarnation I was a "Prime Lens Until I Die Guy". The only Zoom I ever used was a borrowed Vivitar 70-210mm f3.8 Two-Touch. It was a true dog, not sharp at any focal length or aperture. Needless to say, I wasn't impressed. Put me off Zooms for decades. Now I carry a 35-70mm f4 zoom in my walk-around kit. I use it in addition to what ever prime is on the camera ( 24,28,50 or 55mm ), this works well for me. My $.02 worth. Mark Gosdin - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
PUG comments Part VIII
Ok, these are the last ones. Thanks for your patience. :) " In or Out " by Gerardo Pesantez H... In this case, I'm afraid the midtones don't really do much for me. I'm not sure if it's partly because of the lighting or not, but the image just comes across as tonally flat on my monitor. OTOH, I don't mind the composition, the idea was definitely a good one, and the black behind the door is very deep. Focusing on the doorknob might have improved it, or even bouncing the flash to introduce some shadows. Not that it's necessarily a bad photo; it just doesn't appeal to me. " Morning mist " by Naomi van der Lippe Now *here's* an image that I'd love to see at a larger size. I don't think the PUG really does justice to this one, and I imagine the subtle tones are breathtaking in the origninal. I hope you've enlarged this one to at least 11x14 just to appreciate the effect. The mist makes the trees in the background look very ethereal. I would have tried to find an angle that had fewer branches to block the background trees, but if you want a lot of stuff in the foreground you've chosen a good angle for that. If you're trying to convey a sense of the tranquility of the scene, having a less-busy / simpler foreground might help. " Pipe Organ " by Sid Barras, South Lousiana, USA Ah, low-res artifacting strikes again. I'd love to see this photo either shown at a higher resolution or as a print, without those small square blocks of colours. That being said, I'm very partial to tinted monochromes or any photos that play with one colour or shade, so I really like the colour and lighting on this one. The composition is good, and I hope you took some more shots that emphasized the pipes alone. Even just moving to the left would have made for an interesting shot. Congrats on this one! I don't think I've seen an HIE photo in this PUG that I didn't like. :) " Sign of the Times " by Shel Belinkoff, USA Nice shot and title, Shel. :) The straight-on, documentary style calls to mind what little I've seen of some early American socially-conscious photographers, and works well with the subject. Otherwise, if you wanted to get fancy with the angles, I wouldn't mind seeing more of the street and surroundings on the left and less of the open space on the right. Hey, is that a Darwin fish on the camper? *LOL* It comes across as a pretty low-contrast shot on my monitor, so I'm not sure whether that's my monitor, the scan, or the printing (if you scanned it from a print). This is one of the few shots I've seen that still works well even at low contrast. Were you using a filter? I'm guessing not. Good job at capturing this moment. " Old Muse " by Matt McCarter, USA Hi, Matt. Great idea, but I think the angle and lighting could use a little tweaking. Showing less of the table and more of the guitar might make for a stronger effect, and watch out for hotspots like the one near the top and the one in the bottom right. If you're partial to this angle, try focusing closer to eliminate the hotspots and the space beyond the table in the upper right corner. The bottom part of the strings would make a gorgeous close-up or macro shot. I *love* the warm, mellow lighting you've used for this photo, and the black areas at the top and bottom on the left work perfectly. Very well done! " Genesis " by Alin Flaider This is certainly an interesting effect. I haven't decided yet if I like the red blurs or not, but there's no denying that it's eye-catching and a little eerie. I really like the spotlight on the lone performer peeking out from behind the curtain, though his face could probably be burned in a little, unless you're trying for an exaggerated-glare feeling. Why does it look like the audience is looking away from the stage? :) If you want to print this in an 8x10 proportion, try cropping off the red figure on the left so that the performer is at the left of the image... that works well, too, and I might even prefer that cropping. The lighting on the curtains is great. " Snooze " by Tom Wannenburg, USA I like this one. I like the angle of the lighting across his face, the expression on both of their faces, and the square framing, which works so well here. The shirt looks a little unnatural, but I think the decision to desaturate to BW was a good one, and helps to evoke a feeling of tranquility. I wonder how it would look if the top was cropped just slightly to remove that tuft of hair, and if that would be more in keeping with the relatively tight crops on the other sides. In any case, an exceptional candid. At the door " by Luis Pinar, Argentina Great shot! I *love* the painterly style and mood of the photo, the soft colours and beautiful textures. The girl is giving you an excellent pose, and I like her facial expression, the way she is holding her food, and the ripples in the glass where her arm is. A great shot; I can't think of anything that jumps out at me
Re: Another Pinhole Project
Thanks for the info Seth, I`m storing it. Steve Larson Redondo Beach, California - Original Message - From: "SETH" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 6:00 PM Subject: Re: Another Pinhole Project "Steve Larson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ]I thank all of you for responding to my little project, very kind of you. I think since I do not know about contacts and such, I`ll use a body cap on the LX with a piece of brass fastened on it. I know, I`m a chicken. You may want to invest in "The Hole Thing" by Jim Shull. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Silver MZ-S
At this point, with availability in two months, I would think that production has already started. That would mean that mechanical specs are firm, however, software can be tweeked right up to the last moment. Many of us forget that these modern gee-whiz cameras are basically a computer with some optical stuff hung on it. --Tom Jens Bladt wrote: Hi Pl and all If AOCO was very shure about this camera, why would they "release" a preproduction model for dealers etc. I'm sure they are not quite shure yet. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Primes Vs. Zooms: was: Re: More on croppng (Was: An important step)
Sure, Bill, I agree with you to a point. But those large slow moving cameras are for that kind of work. Except for folks who are too poor to own but one camera, why would one want to work that way with 35mm? And, those relatively poor photographers aren't going to have a bag full of primes. I guess, what I object to in these threads is the tone (and I am not pointing a finger at you particularly) that there is some "right" way to do photography, and anything else is "wrong". Not so, IMHO, anything that works is the right way. What is the old saying? I think it applies to photography at least as much as it does to religion. "This is my way. What is your way? There is no such thing as THE WAY." --Tom - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: PUG comments Part VIII
Chris wrote: I don't think the framing works too well if you're trying to convey a sense of the haves and the have nots. Apart from the fact that the man inside and the woman outside don't appear to be dressed radically different, I'm not seeing enough of the building (restaurant?) to know that it's a "haves" type of place. Thanks for the incisive and generous critique of my photo. I tend to agree that it doesn't support the have/have not theme very well. I didn't shoot with that concept in mind. It was just something that came to me as I was grasping for something to say. Later I felt that it was a bit of an overreach, not to mention a little too PC. :-) Best, Paul - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: What exposure compensation for bonfires?
Andy Phillips wrote: Hi, I'm off to Valencia, Spain on Monday next for two weeks. Although I'm there to work, I will have some time off - in particular, my trip coincides (no accident) with a big festival, the Fallas. This culminates in a night of bonfires (Nit del Foc) where large papier mache figures are burnt in the city squares. I plan to take one or both of my Pentaxes (Z1p and Mz5n) loaded with colour slide film (probably Provia 400F) and BW neg (Delta 3200) respectively. Can someone help with an idea of how to photograph such an event, especially how to meter correctly? I'm expecting to get photos of the bonfires themselves, plus those of buidling/people etc lit up by the fires. Hi Andy, My only experience with bonfires: A campfire at night, no other light sources in the picture, way out in the country. A fairly small fire, about 4 feet high, and 3 feet wide (the actual flame). I took some shots and bracketed heavily (even though it was print film ISO 200 Kodak Royal Gold) and the meter did a fine job set on program (PZ 20, FA 28-105 lens) the first shot of each bracket set was OK... The overexposures showed details of the people, but I liked the ones where they were shown as silhouettes, and the flame had good detail. I think the hotter the fire (caused by a bigger and bigger flame) the less reliable the program setting would be. Hope this helps. Sid - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Graded Paper
I was surprised to discover that graded paper has become a rare commodity. I only recently went back to darkroom work after a 20 year hiatus. When I quit in 1980, graded paper was much more common and widely used than multigrade (or polycontrast as the yellow gang would say). Now, the numbered paper appears to be almost extinct on local shelves. I visited four large camera stores in my area. Some of them had lots of paper. All the Kodak and Ilford multigrade varieties. Only one had any graded paper -- Forte -- and that was accompanied by a sign that it was about to be discontinued in that particular store. I know I can buy it mail order, but I do like to work with something I can obtain locally and immediately if I so desire. I had been working with Ilford Multigrade IV with my condenser enlarger and was very pleased with it. I think I'll give it a try with the cold head and see how it responds. I did buy a new set of multigrade filters. Rather than the cut-them-out-yourself variety I got the set that comes with the plastic holders. It's obviously intended for using below the lens, and if I can keep my mitts off the gels, they should be okay. (I figured if I'm going to put something between the lens and the paper, it ought to be pristine.) I have no idea if my Zone VI cold head is warm enough for multigrade printing, but I'll soon see. Paul - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Become a PUG commentator... please! :)
As fun as it was to comment on evey photo in this month's PUG, there's no way that I could do the same thing month after month. From the positive feedback that I've received both on and off the list I'm convinced that this type of commentary is useful and appreciated, so it would be a shame to stop. It wouldn't be any trouble to do if we had a bunch of commentators, so... be a commentator! If we had 20 commentators this month, most of us would only be critiquing 4 photos, and a handful would be doing 5. We have several hundred people on this list, and probably at *least* 80 who are regular contributors, so we should have enough people who can spare 15 or 20 minutes each month to write about some photos. As it stands, we don't have anywhere near enough commentators to do a PUG, so please don't assume that someone else will do it, because every person counts. I'll take care of the coordination if no one else wants to, which will basically consist of my e-mailing every commentator with a list of the photos they'll be commenting on, to avoid duplication. It'll be fun! :) If you want the excitement and edge-of-your-seat thrills of being a PUG Commentator, please e-mail me off-list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] and I'll add your name to the list. Thanks! chris - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
FS lenses
Still have lenses for sale. FA28-70/4AL FA28-80/3.5-4.7 FA70-200/4-5.6 F50/1.7 All in very good condition. Contact me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] 416-346-4346 Jeff Tokayer. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
going on holidays
Just so anyone who sees my "unsubscribe" doesn't think that I'm leaving for good or anything. I'll be back in a week, just going to Halifax to visit Mom and Sis. See ya! -frank - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Primes Vs. Zooms: was: Re: More on croppng (Was: An important step)
- Original Message - From: "Tom Rittenhouse Subject: Re: Primes Vs. Zooms: was: Re: More on croppng (Was: An important step) "This is my way. What is your way? There is no such thing as THE WAY." --Tom I never said it was the right way But it's my way. Sure is workin' for me Ya, Its workin' for me. My friend Mark Radford sings it that way. William Robb - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
yet another MZ-S first look
Spent a couple of hours examining the MZ-S this afternoon, and thought I'd share a few impressions with you. First, here's Ed Sullivan: "Tonight we have a rilly big shoe." Thank you, thank you. Now, on to the camera. Some points in no particular order. 1.) It's =small=. Sure, I read the specs, but I was still surprised. To put the features this camera has into a package this small, those guys at Pentax did their homework. I can see that I would need to have the battery pack/grip attached semi-permanently, to have a good grip on it. For reference, I have the grip strap on my PZ-1p and a winder on my LX because they improve the holdability for me. 2.) It was also lighter than I expected, and yet... 3.) It is well put together. I was especially impressed with the way the back fits to the body. There are a series of ridges-- I believe there are two on the body and one on the door, but I may have that backwards-- that go together to form a seal. The one ridge fits between the two. Very well done. I also noticed a foam square around the inside of the film window. That could be a common thing on cameras, but I don't recall ever seeing it before. The magnesium shell feels solid. I squeezed it and there was no give whatsoever. It feels like it should be around for a while. 4.) For Alan Chan, I examined the finder window and, for the life of me, I couldn't determine if it was glass or plastic. My money is on glass, though. It's that kind of camera. 5.) Okay, the controls. It took me all of five or ten seconds to get the feel of total control. To leave it in program mode, set the lens to A (if the lens has the A setting). To move to Av priority, take it off of A. Then, if you want to go to full manual, shift the shutter speed by turning the dial. If the lens is still set at a preferred f/stop, you can go back to Av priority by touching the green button on the front. To run in Tv priority, just leave the lens on A and turn the dial to select your shutter speed. It's incredibly simple. 5a.) The Hold button seems to be a mystery around here. It's for the shutter speed. If you set a shutter speed you want to stay with, you just use the hold button. If you then turn the control dial, the shutter speed doesn't change and "HOLD" flashes on the LCD. I forgot to check if there's is also on indication on the viewfinder. 5b.) The DOF preview is right there at your index finger. Way cool. You just put your finger on it and sort of pull it. It's more like a little slide action. For those of you, like me, who are accustomed to =pushing= DOF previews, this takes a little getting used to. I must have turned the camera off five times trying to activate the DOF preview. Once I got the hang of it, though, I thought it was pretty cool. 5c.) Selecting the AF points is simple as well. Using the middle finger of my left hand, I slid the switch up, then turned the control dial until the point I wanted lit up at the bottom of the viewfinder. To return to letting the camera choose the sensor, I just clicked the selector switch back down. 5d.) I was a trifle disappointed that the exposure compensation system of the PZ-1p is not on this camera. It's a really great feature of the PZ-1p. Fortunately, using the exp comp dial on the MZ-S is a breeze. I was able to do it with just my left thumb; push in the lock release and turn the dial in the same motion. The over/under indicator off the right side of the viewfinder stays invisible until comp is used (and, I assume, though didn't check, when you're using metered manual), which I liked. Which brings us to 6.) The viewfinder seemed bright to me, and well placed. By that I mean that there is almost a tunnel effect there. The viewfinder is surrounded my a bit of black all the way around, and none of the indicators inside intrude on the viewfinder itself. I even dug out my glasses to have a look and I was able to see all of the viewfinder and the indicators with minimal effort. I should note here that I =never= wear my glasses while photographing, but I was curious how people who wear glasses all the time would see the viewfinder. 7.) The AF is quick and decisive. To test it, I used my FA*80-200/2.8 (keeping an eye on that focus scale window in case it decided to leap off the lens), and it had no trouble with either the camera-selected or user-selected sensors. I got it to hunt, but really, it was a tough scene, some thin branches with a brightly colored BP station in the background, and I was using a single sensor. To be fair, since not everybody has a 80-200/2.8, I also mounted the new 24-90 on there and pointed it around the place. Though the viewfinder was noticeably darker, the camera seemed to handle it just fine. 8.) The AF button on the back (this could be numbered 5e, if you're scoring at home, or even if you're by yourself) is a nice touch. I'd have to really work with it for a while to be comfortable using it, as I'm
Re: More on being a PUG Commentator
I'll try it, for a little while anyway. Let me know what to do... Skip [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "Chris Brogden" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 10:50 PM Subject: More on being a PUG Commentator One thing I never thought to mention and that someone kindly pointed out to me: you don't have to be an expert! You don't have to have any training in anything, or live in a certain country, or use a certain kind of toothpaste. If you read this list occasionally and can put three words together without embarrassing yoruself, you're elegible! There is no "right" or "wrong" about opinions; you're just saying which parts of each photo you like and dislike. And you can still comment about other photos if you want... the more the merrier, as long as you also talk about the ones you're supposed to. :) That way they all get commented upon, and everyone is happy. Think of it as an elite club if that helps. :) I'll probably limit it to 30 list members if we ever get up that high, so in a way it is. g But we're currently sitting at 3 people, so we've got some distance to go yet. :) chris - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: yet another MZ-S first look
Dear Doug. Is it possible to add your message to our collection of 'MZ-S impressions"? I mean two messages from PDMLers (Cesar and Ed) now in our "News" list http://www.mtu-net.ru/penta/news/news_2001.shtml. This reviews are visited very well - because many people want to know more about this body but doesn't have access and/or PDML subscription Your message will add some very interesting details IMHO... Den __ The Penta Magazine - online photo magazine www.mtu-net.ru/penta; [EMAIL PROTECTED] - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: What's a Kiron?
Thanks John, Daphne, and Mark for responding to my questions about the Kiron 24/2 lens. I'd been looking for a fast WA and found this one on Ken-Mar Camera's web site; they're a shop located in Long Island NY. (The web site itself I initially got from their ad in Shutterbug mag.) The lens is listed in "excell+" shape, and the shop guy on the phone said they were practically giving it away for that price. I hope he's right, because I never expected to get a 24/2 for anything even near that price! (Pentax's FA 24/2, which is supposed to be very good, costs $400, and is a little rich for my blood...) Sometimes we just get lucky, I guess. But thanks for telling me about it. I might not have bought it but for your encouraging information... Skip I'll take it, if you don't want it. All my Kiron lenses have very good build quality. In my limited experience, Kiron's build quality was equivalent to comparable Pentax lenses, and certainly equal or better than similar third party lenses by Sigma, Tokina, and Tamron. I would not hesitate to get a Kiron 24/2 for $69, assuming it does not have any major defects. That price is dirt cheap for any 24mm lens - and really a bargain for two reasons: first, the Kiron 24/2 lens is probably good enough to keep for awhile, and, second, f2 is plenty fast for a 24mm lens. -- Happy Trails, Texdance http://members.fortunecity.com/texdance http://members1.clubphoto.com/john8202 - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: yet another MZ-S first look
Sorry, usual here mistake - not change address of message. It should be private... My apologies to Doug and ALL. Den - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: PUG comments Part VIII
Chris Brogden wrote: " Sign of the Times " by Shel Belinkoff, USA Nice shot and title, Shel. :) The straight-on, documentary style calls to mind what little I've seen of some early American socially-conscious photographers, and works well with the subject. Otherwise, if you wanted to get fancy with the angles, I wouldn't mind seeing more of the street and surroundings on the left and less of the open space on the right. Hey, is that a Darwin fish on the camper? *LOL* It comes across as a pretty low-contrast shot on my monitor, so I'm not sure whether that's my monitor, the scan, or the printing (if you scanned it from a print). This is one of the few shots I've seen that still works well even at low contrast. Were you using a filter? I'm guessing not. Good job at capturing this moment. Hi Chris ... I don't usually explain my photographs, as I prefer to let them stand by themselves, making whatever statement they may make and affecting people in whatever they may. However, in this case, I'll make an exception, especially because what's shown in the PUG is but a poor representation of the original print. There were some very distracting elements just outside the frame line on the left, so shifting the camera would have lessened whatever impact the photograph may have. IAC, I wanted a direct shot, with the subject dead center, the object being to have as little distraction from the message of the photograph. The photo was framed specifically to show the Darwin fish and the various signs on the RV, and to give the people a sense of place. Coming in closer would have eliminated the fish, cropped the street out on the left, and lost the trees on the right, giving the people and their vehicle no relationship at all to their surroundings. They'd just "be there". The original print is not very contrasty, as the scene was pretty flat, and I didn't want to pump it up either when developing the film or printing it. While the print is far better than the scan in showing detail and a more full range of tones, the flatter, more toned-down look better conveys the low energy level of the people and their sense of depression. As for the scan, well, I didn't scan the print, and I was not happy with the results at all. Too much detail was lost from the original print, and sharpness was somehow sacrificed. All in all, I am not pleased with the transformation from print to pixels ... -- Shel Belinkoff mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Graded Paper
Hi Paul, I experienced the same shock as you when I discovered, after 25 years away from darkroom work, that graded, fiber-based paper was pretty much a thing of the past. I struggled with the reality of the situation, and tried several brands of graded paper, none of which offered the brilliance that I was seeking. I was not thrilled with the Forte that I tried, so, IMO, you're not missing much. Finally, just this week, I broke down and bought a box of Ilford's VC paper, MGIV Deluxe. I wanted to try the Cooltone but the store didn't have any in stock. I'm quite pleased with the results thus far, although I'm only making 5x7 proof prints. I'm using a Dichro head on the Beseler 23C-II, but one day I may try using the Omega D2V, just to see the difference between prints made with two different light sources. The Dichro head seems to give brilliant results and nice even illumination. I think the light source for a cold light head is similar to the light source for the Dichro. Tom noted that by using filters, such as you're doing, you're limited to -grade contrast steps. I don't know how much of a limitation that is, but being able to use fractions of a grade with the Dichro seems to have an advantage. Of course, I'm speaking only as a novice VC printer, so please consider my ignorance and lack of experience in the matter. -- Shel Belinkoff mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: What's a Kiron?
lucky you! is it very big glass? never saw one 'in the flesh' so to speak... Daphne - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
PhoRelTop: To meter or not to meter
greetings all, Since taking up SLR photography, I have shot in metered manual mode and rarely, if ever, use the automatic capabilities of my ZX-M. I'd like to think that this helps me understand the photographic process and better control the result. I begin shooting by consulting the meter and, if the scene does not appear too unusual, generally follow its suggestions.I check the meter readings sporadically to verify that a significant shift in lighting has not escaped my notice. I have been asked by others who shoot exclusively in Automatic Exposure mode why I bother to shoot in manual if I'm just going to follow the meter's suggestion. My response is that there are lighting situations that will "fool" the meter and, once recognized, these cases are (for me) more easily accomodated by a manual adjustment of the aperture ring or shutter speed dial. Yet I have begun to wonder if I am too easily governed by what the meter sugests (or by what the camera itself would do if set to AE mode). I sometimes wonder if I'm deluding myself about being in control of the process.It seems to be a question of what capabities an individual should bring to the photographic task. In the interest of strectching my abilities and learning what are realistic limitations, I'd like to post the following questions to the group for discussion: --- Should I (or anyone interested in exercising control over this photographic medium) be able to assess a lighting situation and determine an appropriate aperture/shutter speed combination without benefit of any metering device? --- Is such a thing possible? --- Do any of you start shooting a scene without first consulting a meter; relying only on your familiarity with basic photographic principles (e.g. sunny 16 rule and its variants) and your own assessment of a particular scene? --- If so, how did you develop the skill? I guess the question comes down to this : --- If a camera body, lens and meter are all photographic tools one may use to produce a desired result, is the meter a tool of necessity or one of converniance ? Or to put it another way: --- To what extent should a photographer rely on metering devices (either built-in or external)? I started by explaining part of my procedure and I think the results are generally adequate. I find a degree of satisfaction with about one of every 12 shots. Still, I feel something isn't quite hitting the mark: the image before me isn't quite the same as the one in my head! There's so much I have yet to learn and I thought that by breaking down the activitiy to its component parts the task might become more manageable. So I'm starting with these questions. Does this matter interest anyone else? If so, thanks in advance to any who choose to respond. Two minor points: If this topic interests any one, I ask that it be limited to the premise I have offered (i.e. in terms of lighting assessment, what capabilities are required of a photographer interested in exercising control over his medium). I have no wish to ignite yet another battle about the relative superiority of old or new technology, old or new methodology. These soon grow tiresome and it is not what my inquiry is about. Any silence on my part in this discussion should not be interpreted as disinterest.I actually have very limited access to e-mail, but will be avidly following any discussion upon my return. Pondering the ineluctables in NYC, Mike Ray _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: Stock Photography Market in Canada?
D. Glenn Arthur Jr. wrote: "I've been contacted by a Canadian textbook publisher about using some of my photos I'm looking for advice, and some vague notion of the Canadian market, that doesn't mean I should throw income away or seriously undercut the people who _are_ making a living at it." Congratulations! If I were in your shoes, I'd pose these questions to people who deal with them everyday as professional providers of stock and editorial photography. Check the following sites: http://www.stockphoto.net -The STOCKPHOTO Network - http://www.editorialphoto.com -for contracts, magazine data, archives and other info. They are both available through http://groups.yahoo.com You'll have to subscribe and possibly fill out a proifile, but the information available on the business aspects of photography are priceless. I view them as a crash course in photo marketing. They each have international members and will surely be able to answer any specific questions you have. Bon chance, Mike Ray _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: Primes Vs. Zooms
On Wednesday, March 07, 2001 9:47 AM, Rob Studdert [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: On 6 Mar 2001, at 21:31, Erwin Vereecken wrote: An old Leica M2 with 50mm versus the F100 with 80-200f2.8 Interesting results, even if you don't understand French (many pictures) http://www.pictchallenge.com/diabolpif/Montoire1.html and http://www.pictchallenge.com/diabolpif/Montoire2.html For those who don't understand French, for the tester it came down to being certain to get the picture in the bag with the F100, versus the occasional more original shots, while throwing away a lot, with the Leica. I must say using the F100 didn't seem to produce more pleasing pics IMHO I find that too - to me it seemed that the Summicron pics are 'brighter', but control contrast much better than the Nikkor, where to me the shots looked muddy: although he does say that because the Summicron is 40 years old and not multi-coated, it is a little soft, and the scans were "restored" in Photoshop. I also found it interesting that the author commented, with regard to autofocus that 'Le choix des capteurs lateraux fait perdre de la performance a l'appareil, sauf si le sujet se deplace assez lentement' i.e. "The choice of the lateral focus points made the camera lose performance, except if the subject moved slowly enough" Not what you want in a fast moving situation such as the parade. John Coyle Brisbane, Australia - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Primes vs. Zooms
Alan Chan writes: I may test-drive the new 24-90 when a sample arrives down here, if I can think of a reason to own that instead of a 77mm Limited :) Sure you will, just that you would still buy the 77 instead (or both?). 8-) I'm sure I would. The 77mm is faster and looks nicer, and I'm sure it'll be nicer to handle. The range of the zoom is perfect (if only it was constant f/2.8!) but unless I feel a serious calling to get a zoom I'll probably give it a miss. Cheers, - Dave David A. Mann, B.E. email [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://www.digistar.com/~dmann/ "Why is it that if an adult behaves like a child they lock him up, while children are allowed to run free on the streets?" -- Garfield - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
