Re: PESO - In Step

2016-10-08 Thread ann sanfedele

Just cropping on a line above the fallen water bottle would be easier  -

When I looked at the photo the bottom edge of the shot was off the 
bottom of the screen, I had to scroll to see what you were talking about


ann




On 10/8/2016 11:59 AM, Rick Womer wrote:

180 degrees out of step, actually... but a really nice pic.

A bit of cloning to remove the trash would improve it.

Rick

On Oct 7, 2016, at 5:47 PM, Steve Cottrell wrote:


'In Step, Liverpool 2016'
Olympus Pen F + Pentax 24/2.8




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Re: OT: This makes so much sense!

2016-10-08 Thread Paul in MKE
That's the trouble with leaks...when it's raining, you can't fix 'em and 
when it's not raining, you don't need to. :-)


-p


On 10/8/2016 10:53 AM, John wrote:

Good. Thanks. The weather.gov one is the one I need.

Power has been off twice. Both times for less time than it takes to shut
down the computers. I've shut down the rest of the computers anyway, but
I'm keeping this one on to get weather updates.

My leak is contained on the inside. I still have all the buckets &
plastic from before.

If I get a break in the rain, I've already got scaffolding in place, so
it won't take long to install a temporary patch.


On 10/8/2016 10:36 AM, Paul Sorenson wrote:

Here's an overview...

http://radar.weather.gov/Conus/southeast_loop.php

Here's another from Raleigh. These are usually updated every 10 minutes.

http://radar.weather.gov/radar.php?rid=RAX=N0R=1110=yes 



-p

On Oct 8, 2016, 8:41 AM -0500, John , wrote:

I will add this about using the web to find weather information this
morning.

Hurricane Matthew, or at least its fringes is HERE. It's raining 
hard as

f**k.

I've got another damn leak! I'd like to figure out how soon I'm 
going to

be able to risk getting up there to rig a patch.

I can't find a decent weather map (radar type) that shows where the
heavy rain is & which way the heavy rain is moving.

On 10/6/2016 9:39 PM, John wrote:

So I thought I'd share.

I just got a robo-call from my electric utility to warn me there might
be a "storm" in this area in the next few days, and that I should
consider in advance what to do if the power goes off.

One of the things they suggested was that if it DOES go off, I should
consult their web site to find out the extent of the outage. I'll make
sure to check, JUST AS SOON AS THE POWER COMES BACK ON!

Sometimes all you can do is laugh & cry at the same time.



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Re: OT: Tablets or Pads

2016-10-08 Thread Godfrey DiGiorgi
And iPad is my most used computer nowadays. I use it for almost everything that 
isn't my main image processing system. I'm typing this note on it right now. 

- Screens inevitably get dirty; you clean them. 
- The iPad Pro's keyboard cover is an excellent keyboard. 
- There are many different ways to get data into and out of it. 
- There's no need to use cellular data if you don't want to. 

The iPad Pro has the best screen quality for photographs of any tablet on the 
market today. It's more reliable, and there are more apps for it, than any 
other tablet on the market today. I wouldn't consider buying any other tablet 
computer unless it was for some odd specific purpose that required it. 

But I hesitate to recommend it to you, John, because you seem to complain about 
anything and everything regardless of how good or bad it might be. 

G


> On Oct 8, 2016, at 8:01 AM, Bruce Walker  wrote:
> 
> I like my Apple iPad Air well enough. I share your distaste for
> touchscreens, but Apple has managed to make them tolerable.
> 
> Touchscreens in general suffer from so many issues like failing to
> notice a touch (eg when typing on the virtual keyboard), reacting to a
> touch as if your finger was positioned in a different screen location
> (eg launches the wrong app), being too sensitive and registering when
> you didn't intend it (especially when trying to use the builtin camera
> camera).
> 
> All these issues plague any non-Apple screen I've ever tried, mostly
> Android smartphones, but three generations of iPads I have used are
> much less prone to them. iPads never mislocate your finger touch.
> 
> You don't need a phone SIM or account. WiFi is all I use.
> 
> You can get a simple little SDXC adapter, though I haven't got one. I
> use my desktop and transfer stuff over.
> 
> It charges from anything you plug its USB cable into.
> 
> It's easy to clean the screen with a wipe. Even the back of your hand
> a shirt sleeve will do. Best to clean it with eyeglass cleaner and a
> microfiber cloth now and then.
> 
> I use my iPad actively for tethering while shooting (instant live
> previews), showing folks my portfolio, and also surfing email and the
> web around the house. I have a few specialized apps like Nest (control
> the smart thermostat). I even read some ebooks and magazines on it.
> And I use it to stream music to a Bluetooth adapter attached to the
> stereo.

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Re: Liver birds - very on topic

2016-10-08 Thread Chris Mitchell
On 8 Oct 2016 18:25, "John Francis"  wrote:
>

> Those of us around in the 1970s would also think you might be referring
> to the two female members of your party ...
>
> "The Liver Birds" was a very popular (and long-running) British sitcom
> built around the premise of two young women sharing a flat (apartment...)
> purportedly on Huskisson Street in Liverpool.
>
I wondered if anyone would get the juxtaposition (if that's what it is. Any
English majors please chip in). Well done John!
CM
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Re: OT: Tablets or Pads

2016-10-08 Thread mike wilson
> On 08 October 2016 at 05:00 Bill  wrote:

> I'd have rather been assimilated by the Borg, At least then I could 
> boink 7 of 9.

Does the Borg Boink?  I thought that was verBoten.

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PESO - Balboa Park Window

2016-10-08 Thread Rick Womer
We were in San Diego a week or so ago. I spent a morning wandering around 
Balboa Park, which hosts many of the city's museums and its zoo. This was one 
of my first shots on arriving:

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=18295149=lg

(K-5, DA 50-200).

Comments appreciated.

Rick



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Re: OT: Tablets or Pads

2016-10-08 Thread Bill

On 10/8/2016 11:23 AM, ann sanfedele wrote:

I knew there was a reason we were friends :-)

except for the drunk part... I don't do drunk


How do you feel about 7 of 9? :)



ann


On 10/8/2016 12:00 AM, Bill wrote:

On 10/7/2016 4:21 PM, ann sanfedele wrote:

John - You're going to hate I-pads... don't do it.


Seconded. I bought an iPad specifically to run my quad copter. That's
about all it's good for.

It's the best built piece of fucked up crap I have ever had the
displeasure of using, and to use it I had to submit to joining the
Apple Collective.
That's adding insult to injury at it's finest.
I'd have rather been assimilated by the Borg, At least then I could
boink 7 of 9.
Actually, that's a really good reason to be assimilated by the Borg,
but I digress.

My old tablet is an Asus Transformer, which would clip onto a real
keyboard. I don't know if they are still available. It's problem was
that it could be right beside my router and still have flaky
connectivity.
At least it had an SD port on the keyboard and a mini SD on the screen.

But fuck me with a dead squirrel, I hate Apple.

Someone ran over my favorite squirrel a couple of days ago. Poor
little bastard.
There's only one thing I hate more than the prick that ran over my
squirrel, and that's donald trump.
I only have one thing against that fucked up piece of shit, that being
he has a pulse.

Sorry kids, I'm really drunk. I'll probably hate myself for this in
the morning.
Except for the donald trump part. I'm serious as a heart attack about
that.

Hangover, here I come.

Remember, friends don't let friends buy Apple Crapple.



I hate 'em too .. all touch screens..

and , like you, I have a lovely little flip phone that only does text
and voice - no web connectivity.

and a reliable land line  which was the ONLY thing that worked during
Sandy and the only communication device that worked on 9/11

ann


On 10/7/2016 3:51 PM, John wrote:

I'm still not interested in a smart phone, but I have started thinking
about maybe getting a tablet or a pad to display photographs.

1. I want one that does NOT require me to have a cell phone account & a
data plan. WiFi is Ok.

2. I want one that will let me plug in a USB thumb drive & download the
photos to the tablet/pad or that will allow me to plug in a SDHC card
with the photos on it.

3. I want one that recharges either from a wall wart or USB (or both).

4. I *HATE* touchscreens, so it should be easy to clean grubby
fingerprints off the screen.

I welcome your recommendations.















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Re: Liver birds - very on topic

2016-10-08 Thread John Francis
On Sat, Oct 08, 2016 at 02:20:53PM +0100, Chris Mitchell wrote:
> Those are the green things on top of the building. Pronounced lie-ver. Part
> eagle and part - wait for it - cormorant. Carrying a sprig of seaweed;
> liver apparantly being an Anglo Saxon word for seaweed. In the foreground
> are PDMLers Lisa, Mark, Karin and me.
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/dej58thlsj7f9l2/2016_1006_17201600~01.jpg?dl=0

Those of us around in the 1970s would also think you might be referring
to the two female members of your party ...

"The Liver Birds" was a very popular (and long-running) British sitcom
built around the premise of two young women sharing a flat (apartment...)
purportedly on Huskisson Street in Liverpool.

I recognise the Royal Liver building on Liverpool Pier Head, but the
strange tubular glass edifice in your picture is new to me - back when
I was visiting friends in Liverpool almost every weekend the newest bit
of controversial architecture was the Roman Catholic cathedral (or, as
it was colloquially known, "Paddy's wigwam") built in 1967.

My friends lived closer to the Anglican cathedral (in fact one lived on
Hope street), which is also where Huskisson Street can be found.

The them tune for "The Liver Birds" was performed by The Scaffold, a
Liverpool group also know for "Thank U Very Much", "Lily the Pink", 
I rather like "In My Liverpool Home", which mentions the two cathedrals.

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Re: OT: Tablets or Pads

2016-10-08 Thread ann sanfedele

I knew there was a reason we were friends :-)

except for the drunk part... I don't do drunk

ann


On 10/8/2016 12:00 AM, Bill wrote:

On 10/7/2016 4:21 PM, ann sanfedele wrote:

John - You're going to hate I-pads... don't do it.


Seconded. I bought an iPad specifically to run my quad copter. That's 
about all it's good for.


It's the best built piece of fucked up crap I have ever had the 
displeasure of using, and to use it I had to submit to joining the 
Apple Collective.

That's adding insult to injury at it's finest.
I'd have rather been assimilated by the Borg, At least then I could 
boink 7 of 9.
Actually, that's a really good reason to be assimilated by the Borg, 
but I digress.


My old tablet is an Asus Transformer, which would clip onto a real 
keyboard. I don't know if they are still available. It's problem was 
that it could be right beside my router and still have flaky 
connectivity.

At least it had an SD port on the keyboard and a mini SD on the screen.

But fuck me with a dead squirrel, I hate Apple.

Someone ran over my favorite squirrel a couple of days ago. Poor 
little bastard.
There's only one thing I hate more than the prick that ran over my 
squirrel, and that's donald trump.
I only have one thing against that fucked up piece of shit, that being 
he has a pulse.


Sorry kids, I'm really drunk. I'll probably hate myself for this in 
the morning.
Except for the donald trump part. I'm serious as a heart attack about 
that.


Hangover, here I come.

Remember, friends don't let friends buy Apple Crapple.



I hate 'em too .. all touch screens..

and , like you, I have a lovely little flip phone that only does text
and voice - no web connectivity.

and a reliable land line  which was the ONLY thing that worked during
Sandy and the only communication device that worked on 9/11

ann


On 10/7/2016 3:51 PM, John wrote:

I'm still not interested in a smart phone, but I have started thinking
about maybe getting a tablet or a pad to display photographs.

1. I want one that does NOT require me to have a cell phone account & a
data plan. WiFi is Ok.

2. I want one that will let me plug in a USB thumb drive & download the
photos to the tablet/pad or that will allow me to plug in a SDHC card
with the photos on it.

3. I want one that recharges either from a wall wart or USB (or both).

4. I *HATE* touchscreens, so it should be easy to clean grubby
fingerprints off the screen.

I welcome your recommendations.












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Re: OT: This makes so much sense!

2016-10-08 Thread Rick Womer
For computer: Www.intellicast.com. Very good, very versatile; has a
learning curve but it's not steep.

For iPhone: Storm.

Rick

On Saturday, October 8, 2016, John  wrote:

> I will add this about using the web to find weather information this
> morning.
>
> Hurricane Matthew, or at least its fringes is HERE. It's raining hard as
> f**k.
>
> I've got another damn leak! I'd like to figure out how soon I'm going to
> be able to risk getting up there to rig a patch.
>
> I can't find a decent weather map (radar type) that shows where the
> heavy rain is & which way the heavy rain is moving.
>
> On 10/6/2016 9:39 PM, John wrote:
>
>> So I thought I'd share.
>>
>> I just got a robo-call from my electric utility to warn me there might
>> be a "storm" in this area in the next few days, and that I should
>> consider in advance what to do if the power goes off.
>>
>> One of the things they suggested was that if it DOES go off, I should
>> consult their web site to find out the extent of the outage. I'll make
>> sure to check, JUST AS SOON AS THE POWER COMES BACK ON!
>>
>> Sometimes all you can do is laugh & cry at the same time.
>>
>>
> --
> Science - Questions we may never find answers for.
> Religion - Answers we must never question.
>
> --
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> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
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Re: OT: This makes so much sense!

2016-10-08 Thread ann sanfedele
I was wondering if it was going to reach you... just saw some NC stuff 
on weather channel this am


condolences on the whole mess - good thing you are handy :-)

ann


On 10/8/2016 11:53 AM, John wrote:

Good. Thanks. The weather.gov one is the one I need.

Power has been off twice. Both times for less time than it takes to shut
down the computers. I've shut down the rest of the computers anyway, but
I'm keeping this one on to get weather updates.

My leak is contained on the inside. I still have all the buckets &
plastic from before.

If I get a break in the rain, I've already got scaffolding in place, so
it won't take long to install a temporary patch.


On 10/8/2016 10:36 AM, Paul Sorenson wrote:

Here's an overview...

http://radar.weather.gov/Conus/southeast_loop.php

Here's another from Raleigh. These are usually updated every 10 minutes.

http://radar.weather.gov/radar.php?rid=RAX=N0R=1110=yes 



-p

On Oct 8, 2016, 8:41 AM -0500, John , wrote:

I will add this about using the web to find weather information this
morning.

Hurricane Matthew, or at least its fringes is HERE. It's raining 
hard as

f**k.

I've got another damn leak! I'd like to figure out how soon I'm 
going to

be able to risk getting up there to rig a patch.

I can't find a decent weather map (radar type) that shows where the
heavy rain is & which way the heavy rain is moving.

On 10/6/2016 9:39 PM, John wrote:

So I thought I'd share.

I just got a robo-call from my electric utility to warn me there might
be a "storm" in this area in the next few days, and that I should
consider in advance what to do if the power goes off.

One of the things they suggested was that if it DOES go off, I should
consult their web site to find out the extent of the outage. I'll make
sure to check, JUST AS SOON AS THE POWER COMES BACK ON!

Sometimes all you can do is laugh & cry at the same time.



--
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Religion - Answers we must never question.

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Re: PESO - Morning Mist

2016-10-08 Thread Rick Womer
Thanks, Malcolm and Bruce.

I wouldn't mind being there now. The fall colors are out.

Rick

On Oct 8, 2016, at 10:41 AM, Bruce Walker wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 2:39 AM, Malcolm Smith  wrote:
>> Rick Womer wrote:
>> 
>>> The last from August in New Hampshire:
>>> 
>>> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=18286284=lg
>> 
>> I can feel as if I'm there. Great image.
>> 
>> Malcolm
> 
> Ditto. I appreciate these colours and light.
> 
> -- 
> -bmw
> 
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Re: PESO - In Step

2016-10-08 Thread Rick Womer
180 degrees out of step, actually... but a really nice pic.

A bit of cloning to remove the trash would improve it.

Rick

On Oct 7, 2016, at 5:47 PM, Steve Cottrell wrote:

> 'In Step, Liverpool 2016'
> Olympus Pen F + Pentax 24/2.8
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
>  Cotty
> 
> 
> ___/\__Broadcast, Corporate,
> ||  (O)  |Web Video Production
> --
> _
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.

http://photo.net/photos/RickW



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Re: OT: This makes so much sense!

2016-10-08 Thread John

Good. Thanks. The weather.gov one is the one I need.

Power has been off twice. Both times for less time than it takes to shut
down the computers. I've shut down the rest of the computers anyway, but
I'm keeping this one on to get weather updates.

My leak is contained on the inside. I still have all the buckets &
plastic from before.

If I get a break in the rain, I've already got scaffolding in place, so
it won't take long to install a temporary patch.


On 10/8/2016 10:36 AM, Paul Sorenson wrote:

Here's an overview...

http://radar.weather.gov/Conus/southeast_loop.php

Here's another from Raleigh. These are usually updated every 10 minutes.

http://radar.weather.gov/radar.php?rid=RAX=N0R=1110=yes

-p

On Oct 8, 2016, 8:41 AM -0500, John , wrote:

I will add this about using the web to find weather information this
morning.

Hurricane Matthew, or at least its fringes is HERE. It's raining hard as
f**k.

I've got another damn leak! I'd like to figure out how soon I'm going to
be able to risk getting up there to rig a patch.

I can't find a decent weather map (radar type) that shows where the
heavy rain is & which way the heavy rain is moving.

On 10/6/2016 9:39 PM, John wrote:

So I thought I'd share.

I just got a robo-call from my electric utility to warn me there might
be a "storm" in this area in the next few days, and that I should
consider in advance what to do if the power goes off.

One of the things they suggested was that if it DOES go off, I should
consult their web site to find out the extent of the outage. I'll make
sure to check, JUST AS SOON AS THE POWER COMES BACK ON!

Sometimes all you can do is laugh & cry at the same time.



--
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Religion - Answers we must never question.

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Re: OT: Tablets or Pads

2016-10-08 Thread Bruce Walker
I like my Apple iPad Air well enough. I share your distaste for
touchscreens, but Apple has managed to make them tolerable.

Touchscreens in general suffer from so many issues like failing to
notice a touch (eg when typing on the virtual keyboard), reacting to a
touch as if your finger was positioned in a different screen location
(eg launches the wrong app), being too sensitive and registering when
you didn't intend it (especially when trying to use the builtin camera
camera).

All these issues plague any non-Apple screen I've ever tried, mostly
Android smartphones, but three generations of iPads I have used are
much less prone to them. iPads never mislocate your finger touch.

You don't need a phone SIM or account. WiFi is all I use.

You can get a simple little SDXC adapter, though I haven't got one. I
use my desktop and transfer stuff over.

It charges from anything you plug its USB cable into.

It's easy to clean the screen with a wipe. Even the back of your hand
a shirt sleeve will do. Best to clean it with eyeglass cleaner and a
microfiber cloth now and then.

I use my iPad actively for tethering while shooting (instant live
previews), showing folks my portfolio, and also surfing email and the
web around the house. I have a few specialized apps like Nest (control
the smart thermostat). I even read some ebooks and magazines on it.
And I use it to stream music to a Bluetooth adapter attached to the
stereo.


On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 3:51 PM, John  wrote:
> I'm still not interested in a smart phone, but I have started thinking
> about maybe getting a tablet or a pad to display photographs.
>
> 1. I want one that does NOT require me to have a cell phone account & a
> data plan. WiFi is Ok.
>
> 2. I want one that will let me plug in a USB thumb drive & download the
> photos to the tablet/pad or that will allow me to plug in a SDHC card
> with the photos on it.
>
> 3. I want one that recharges either from a wall wart or USB (or both).
>
> 4. I *HATE* touchscreens, so it should be easy to clean grubby
> fingerprints off the screen.
>
> I welcome your recommendations.
>
>
>
> --
> Science - Questions we may never find answers for.
> Religion - Answers we must never question.
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
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Re: PESO - Morning Mist

2016-10-08 Thread Bruce Walker
On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 2:39 AM, Malcolm Smith  wrote:
> Rick Womer wrote:
>
>> The last from August in New Hampshire:
>>
>> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=18286284=lg
>
> I can feel as if I'm there. Great image.
>
> Malcolm

Ditto. I appreciate these colours and light.

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Re: OT: This makes so much sense!

2016-10-08 Thread Paul Sorenson
Here's an overview...

http://radar.weather.gov/Conus/southeast_loop.php

Here's another from Raleigh. These are usually updated every 10 minutes.

http://radar.weather.gov/radar.php?rid=RAX=N0R=1110=yes

-p

On Oct 8, 2016, 8:41 AM -0500, John , wrote:
> I will add this about using the web to find weather information this
> morning.
>
> Hurricane Matthew, or at least its fringes is HERE. It's raining hard as
> f**k.
>
> I've got another damn leak! I'd like to figure out how soon I'm going to
> be able to risk getting up there to rig a patch.
>
> I can't find a decent weather map (radar type) that shows where the
> heavy rain is & which way the heavy rain is moving.
>
> On 10/6/2016 9:39 PM, John wrote:
> > So I thought I'd share.
> >
> > I just got a robo-call from my electric utility to warn me there might
> > be a "storm" in this area in the next few days, and that I should
> > consider in advance what to do if the power goes off.
> >
> > One of the things they suggested was that if it DOES go off, I should
> > consult their web site to find out the extent of the outage. I'll make
> > sure to check, JUST AS SOON AS THE POWER COMES BACK ON!
> >
> > Sometimes all you can do is laugh & cry at the same time.
> >
>
> --
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> Religion - Answers we must never question.
>
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Re: Liver birds - very on topic

2016-10-08 Thread Alan C
Interesting. I thought Liverbirds were something else. Presumably you tried 
to blast them with that bazooka thing in the background?


Alan C

-Original Message- 
From: Chris Mitchell

Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2016 3:20 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Liver birds - very on topic

Those are the green things on top of the building. Pronounced lie-ver. Part
eagle and part - wait for it - cormorant. Carrying a sprig of seaweed;
liver apparantly being an Anglo Saxon word for seaweed. In the foreground
are PDMLers Lisa, Mark, Karin and me.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dej58thlsj7f9l2/2016_1006_17201600~01.jpg?dl=0

Chris
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Re: OT: This makes so much sense!

2016-10-08 Thread John

I will add this about using the web to find weather information this
morning.

Hurricane Matthew, or at least its fringes is HERE. It's raining hard as
f**k.

I've got another damn leak! I'd like to figure out how soon I'm going to
be able to risk getting up there to rig a patch.

I can't find a decent weather map (radar type) that shows where the
heavy rain is & which way the heavy rain is moving.

On 10/6/2016 9:39 PM, John wrote:

So I thought I'd share.

I just got a robo-call from my electric utility to warn me there might
be a "storm" in this area in the next few days, and that I should
consider in advance what to do if the power goes off.

One of the things they suggested was that if it DOES go off, I should
consult their web site to find out the extent of the outage. I'll make
sure to check, JUST AS SOON AS THE POWER COMES BACK ON!

Sometimes all you can do is laugh & cry at the same time.



--
Science - Questions we may never find answers for.
Religion - Answers we must never question.

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Liver birds - very on topic

2016-10-08 Thread Chris Mitchell
Those are the green things on top of the building. Pronounced lie-ver. Part
eagle and part - wait for it - cormorant. Carrying a sprig of seaweed;
liver apparantly being an Anglo Saxon word for seaweed. In the foreground
are PDMLers Lisa, Mark, Karin and me.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dej58thlsj7f9l2/2016_1006_17201600~01.jpg?dl=0

Chris
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RE: PESO - Morning Mist

2016-10-08 Thread Malcolm Smith
Rick Womer wrote:

The last from August in New Hampshire:

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=18286284=lg

I can feel as if I'm there. Great image.

Malcolm


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RE: PESO - Selfie

2016-10-08 Thread Malcolm Smith
Steve Cottrell wrote:

'Selfie, Liverpool 2016
Olympus Pen F + Pentax 24/2.8



Great photos all, but this one is my favourite.

Malcolm


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Re: PESO: PDML Liverpool

2016-10-08 Thread Mark Roberts

On 10/7/2016 6:45 PM, ann sanfedele wrote:

Hey , I know this lot in person too!

Didn't know they were an exhibit though


Halloween special.



http://www.robertstech.com/temp/pdml-liverpool.jpg



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