Re: OT: Digital black & white

[John]

On 11/8/2015 5:25 PM, Bob W-PDML wrote:

I went with some friends to the Lee Miller exhibition at the Imperial War 
Museum today - it's a superb exhibition and I recommend it very highly.

I took my Fuji X20 with me because one of my friends has one on my recommendation 
but couldn't figure out how to set it to black & white only, which is all she's 
interested in shooting. So before going I set mine up - I normally shoot raw - so I 
would know what to do, and would look like I knew what I was doing.

I took some snaps to see how it all plays out. This is one of them, and I have 
a question about it.

http://www.web-options.com/IWM.jpg

If you enlarge it to its full size the 'grain', for want of a better term, is very 
blobby as if I'd shot it through rippled bathroom glass. I don't think this is 
noise - the iso was 200 - but it's pretty ugly. I've never noticed anything like 
this when rendering in b from raw.

Is this normal for in-camera b jpg?

Whether it's normal or not, what is the cause?

Ta,
B



This is just a SWAG, with *NO* actual expertise to back it up, but could 
the camera be using only the data from one channel to create the B 
image and what you're seeing is the pattern of the Beyer sensor?


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OT: Digital black & white

[Bob W-PDML]

I went with some friends to the Lee Miller exhibition at the Imperial War 
Museum today - it's a superb exhibition and I recommend it very highly.

I took my Fuji X20 with me because one of my friends has one on my 
recommendation but couldn't figure out how to set it to black & white only, 
which is all she's interested in shooting. So before going I set mine up - I 
normally shoot raw - so I would know what to do, and would look like I knew 
what I was doing.

I took some snaps to see how it all plays out. This is one of them, and I have 
a question about it.

http://www.web-options.com/IWM.jpg

If you enlarge it to its full size the 'grain', for want of a better term, is 
very blobby as if I'd shot it through rippled bathroom glass. I don't think 
this is noise - the iso was 200 - but it's pretty ugly. I've never noticed 
anything like this when rendering in b from raw. 

Is this normal for in-camera b jpg? 

Whether it's normal or not, what is the cause?

Ta,
B
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Re: OT: Digital black & white

[Bruce Walker]

Bob, that looks just like the kind of image you get from an older gen
cellphone with a fairly lo-rez sensor, like 3-4 mpix.

How have you got the JPG rendering configured? They usually provide
two adjustments. Eg: in Ricoh's case, number of pixels (image size)
and JPEG Quality (1 to 4 stars). If you reduce the size I'd expect
something like you're seeing here.

But if that's the result from using the highest Q settings, then I'd
never use anything but raw. :)


On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 5:25 PM, Bob W-PDML  wrote:
> I went with some friends to the Lee Miller exhibition at the Imperial War 
> Museum today - it's a superb exhibition and I recommend it very highly.
>
> I took my Fuji X20 with me because one of my friends has one on my 
> recommendation but couldn't figure out how to set it to black & white only, 
> which is all she's interested in shooting. So before going I set mine up - I 
> normally shoot raw - so I would know what to do, and would look like I knew 
> what I was doing.
>
> I took some snaps to see how it all plays out. This is one of them, and I 
> have a question about it.
>
> http://www.web-options.com/IWM.jpg
>
> If you enlarge it to its full size the 'grain', for want of a better term, is 
> very blobby as if I'd shot it through rippled bathroom glass. I don't think 
> this is noise - the iso was 200 - but it's pretty ugly. I've never noticed 
> anything like this when rendering in b from raw.
>
> Is this normal for in-camera b jpg?
>
> Whether it's normal or not, what is the cause?
>
> Ta,
> B
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Re: OT: Digital black & white

[Steve Cottrell]

On 8/11/15, Bob W-PDML, discombobulated, unleashed:

>http://www.web-options.com/IWM.jpg
>
>If you enlarge it to its full size the 'grain', for want of a better
>term, is very blobby as if I'd shot it through rippled bathroom glass. I
>don't think this is noise - the iso was 200 - but it's pretty ugly. I've
>never noticed anything like this when rendering in b from raw. 
>
>Is this normal for in-camera b jpg? 
>
>Whether it's normal or not, what is the cause?

That's not normal. I have no such patterning - will investigate in the
morning and send you a camera-output jpeg file you can examine.

I'll go through my settings and list off what i do

cheers

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Re: OT: Digital black & white

[Steve Cottrell]

On 8/11/15, Bob W-PDML, discombobulated, unleashed:

> Actually, I suspect I'm leading people up the garden path, because I
>did tweak the shot in LR

You stuck the fucking craquelure filter onto it ;)

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Re: OT: Digital black & white

[Bob W-PDML]

I remember the first time I went with my girlfriend to the print room at the 
Photographers' Gallery here in London flipping through albums of original 
prints by HCB that we could have had for a couple of hundred pounds each. Of 
course back then we didn't have anything remotely like £200-.

2 or 3 years ago I was in the Paris Magnum print room and a young couple were 
flipping through an album of original prints by HCB. When they heard they were 
from about 2000 euros they blanched in exactly the same way we did 30 years 
previously.

B

> On 9 Nov 2015, at 00:03, knarf  wrote:
> 
> Maybe ten years ago there was a Magnum exhibit that showed up at a gallery 
> here in Toronto. I think the only HCB was ~Sur le Rue Mouffetard~. Can't 
> remember the size but it was by far the most expensive print there at 
> $8,000CDN. 
> 
> Everything else was $2,000 to $4,000. Even at the higher price I thought 
> Henri's was quite reasonable. 
> 
> As for yours, I'll have to think about it...
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> frank
> 
>> On November 8, 2015 6:49:02 PM EST, Bob W-PDML  wrote:
>> Thanks Frank. I don't think mine's even half as good as Henry's, so
>> I'll let you have a copy for 1/4th what Christies are asking.
>> 
>> B
>> 
>>> On 8 Nov 2015, at 23:36, knarf  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I don't see what you're talking about on my phone. And if I did see
>> it I wouldn't have an answer as to what it is.
>>> 
>>> I do like the shot a lot, though. 
>>> 
>>> My turn to be reminded of something:
>> http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/photographs/henri-cartier-bresson-dans-un-train-roumanie-1975-5494182-details.aspx
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> frank
>>> 
 On November 8, 2015 5:25:32 PM EST, Bob W-PDML
>>  wrote:
 I went with some friends to the Lee Miller exhibition at the
>> Imperial
 War Museum today - it's a superb exhibition and I recommend it very
 highly.
 
 I took my Fuji X20 with me because one of my friends has one on my
 recommendation but couldn't figure out how to set it to black &
>> white
 only, which is all she's interested in shooting. So before going I
>> set
 mine up - I normally shoot raw - so I would know what to do, and
>> would
 look like I knew what I was doing.
 
 I took some snaps to see how it all plays out. This is one of them,
>> and
 I have a question about it.
 
 http://www.web-options.com/IWM.jpg
 
 If you enlarge it to its full size the 'grain', for want of a better
 term, is very blobby as if I'd shot it through rippled bathroom
>> glass.
 I don't think this is noise - the iso was 200 - but it's pretty
>> ugly.
 I've never noticed anything like this when rendering in b from
>> raw. 
 
 Is this normal for in-camera b jpg? 
 
 Whether it's normal or not, what is the cause?
 
 Ta,
 B
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson
>>> 
>>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>> 
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>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above
>> and follow the directions.
> 
> -- 
> 
> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson
> 
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> 
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Re: OT: Digital black & white

[Bob W-PDML]

Thanks, I was hoping you'd jump in. My Q button doesn't do anything.

My settings are consistent with yours, although I have IS switched off.

I shot this with raw+jpeg, but I don't think that would account for it. 
Actually, I suspect I'm leading people up the garden path, because I did tweak 
the shot in LR and that might well have introduced some foolishness. It 
certainly nullifies any straight comparisons.

I'll have to do some experimenting.

Thanks to all for the help.

B

> On 8 Nov 2015, at 22:56, Steve Cottrell  wrote:
> 
> On 8/11/15, Bob W-PDML, discombobulated, unleashed:
> 
>> http://www.web-options.com/IWM.jpg
>> 
> 
>> Is this normal for in-camera b jpg? 
> 
> I have the following settings saved to my 'C2' on the main dial:
> 
> 
> press the 'Q' button lower right to access these settings:
> 
> (reading from top left to bottom right)
> 
> P for Programme
> ISO auto 800
> DR400
> WB auto
> 
> NR 0
> L 3:2
> FINE
> B  (for Black and white)
> 
> H tone 0
> S tone 0
> Color 0
> Sharp 0
> 
> (timer) OFF
> centre focus box
> stabilisation (hand icon)2
> screen brightness (sun icon) 0
> 
> 
> I suspect that the problem your image exhibited could be a problem with
> the IS function?
> 
> I'll send you an image off list with the above settings applied
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
>  Cotty
> 
> 
> ___/\__Broadcast, Corporate,
> ||  (O)  |Web Video Production
> --
> _
> 
> 
> 
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Re: OT: Digital black & white

[Bob W-PDML]

Thanks - I was on BWR too, but 0 on the others. I'll try that combo.

As I said to Cotty though - squirting it through LR has queered the pitch, so 
I'll play around a bit.

B

> On 8 Nov 2015, at 23:09, David J Brooks  wrote:
> 
> Bob, i have my X30 set tp yhis:
> 
> My favorite B settings on the Fuji cameras for most situations are:
> 
> – Film simulation: BR (B Red Filter)
> 
> – Sharpness: +1
> 
> – Highlight Tone: +1
> 
> – Shadow Tone: +2
> 
> – Noise Reduction: -2
> 
> This will give you a fairly contrasty B look when exposed correctly.
> 
> from this website:
> http://weshootfuji.com/2015/04/03/how-to-get-great-bw-results-from-your-fuji-x-camera-and-become-a-better-bw-photographer/
> 
> Dave
> 
>> On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 5:25 PM, Bob W-PDML  wrote:
>> I went with some friends to the Lee Miller exhibition at the Imperial War 
>> Museum today - it's a superb exhibition and I recommend it very highly.
>> 
>> I took my Fuji X20 with me because one of my friends has one on my 
>> recommendation but couldn't figure out how to set it to black & white only, 
>> which is all she's interested in shooting. So before going I set mine up - I 
>> normally shoot raw - so I would know what to do, and would look like I knew 
>> what I was doing.
>> 
>> I took some snaps to see how it all plays out. This is one of them, and I 
>> have a question about it.
>> 
>> http://www.web-options.com/IWM.jpg
>> 
>> If you enlarge it to its full size the 'grain', for want of a better term, 
>> is very blobby as if I'd shot it through rippled bathroom glass. I don't 
>> think this is noise - the iso was 200 - but it's pretty ugly. I've never 
>> noticed anything like this when rendering in b from raw.
>> 
>> Is this normal for in-camera b jpg?
>> 
>> Whether it's normal or not, what is the cause?
>> 
>> Ta,
>> B
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>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and 
>> follow the directions.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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> www.caughtinmotion.com
> http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
> York Region, Ontario, Canada
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Re: OT: Digital black & white

[David J Brooks]

Bob, i have my X30 set tp yhis:

My favorite B settings on the Fuji cameras for most situations are:

– Film simulation: BR (B Red Filter)

– Sharpness: +1

– Highlight Tone: +1

– Shadow Tone: +2

– Noise Reduction: -2

This will give you a fairly contrasty B look when exposed correctly.

from this website:
http://weshootfuji.com/2015/04/03/how-to-get-great-bw-results-from-your-fuji-x-camera-and-become-a-better-bw-photographer/

Dave

On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 5:25 PM, Bob W-PDML  wrote:
> I went with some friends to the Lee Miller exhibition at the Imperial War 
> Museum today - it's a superb exhibition and I recommend it very highly.
>
> I took my Fuji X20 with me because one of my friends has one on my 
> recommendation but couldn't figure out how to set it to black & white only, 
> which is all she's interested in shooting. So before going I set mine up - I 
> normally shoot raw - so I would know what to do, and would look like I knew 
> what I was doing.
>
> I took some snaps to see how it all plays out. This is one of them, and I 
> have a question about it.
>
> http://www.web-options.com/IWM.jpg
>
> If you enlarge it to its full size the 'grain', for want of a better term, is 
> very blobby as if I'd shot it through rippled bathroom glass. I don't think 
> this is noise - the iso was 200 - but it's pretty ugly. I've never noticed 
> anything like this when rendering in b from raw.
>
> Is this normal for in-camera b jpg?
>
> Whether it's normal or not, what is the cause?
>
> Ta,
> B
> --
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> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.



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Re: OT: Digital black & white

[knarf]

I don't see what you're talking about on my phone. And if I did see it I 
wouldn't have an answer as to what it is.

I do like the shot a lot, though. 

My turn to be reminded of something:

http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/photographs/henri-cartier-bresson-dans-un-train-roumanie-1975-5494182-details.aspx

Cheers,

frank

On November 8, 2015 5:25:32 PM EST, Bob W-PDML  wrote:
>I went with some friends to the Lee Miller exhibition at the Imperial
>War Museum today - it's a superb exhibition and I recommend it very
>highly.
>
>I took my Fuji X20 with me because one of my friends has one on my
>recommendation but couldn't figure out how to set it to black & white
>only, which is all she's interested in shooting. So before going I set
>mine up - I normally shoot raw - so I would know what to do, and would
>look like I knew what I was doing.
>
>I took some snaps to see how it all plays out. This is one of them, and
>I have a question about it.
>
>http://www.web-options.com/IWM.jpg
>
>If you enlarge it to its full size the 'grain', for want of a better
>term, is very blobby as if I'd shot it through rippled bathroom glass.
>I don't think this is noise - the iso was 200 - but it's pretty ugly.
>I've never noticed anything like this when rendering in b from raw. 
>
>Is this normal for in-camera b jpg? 
>
>Whether it's normal or not, what is the cause?
>
>Ta,
>B

-- 

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Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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Re: OT: Digital black & white

[Bob W-PDML]

Thanks Frank. I don't think mine's even half as good as Henry's, so I'll let 
you have a copy for 1/4th what Christies are asking.

B

> On 8 Nov 2015, at 23:36, knarf  wrote:
> 
> I don't see what you're talking about on my phone. And if I did see it I 
> wouldn't have an answer as to what it is.
> 
> I do like the shot a lot, though. 
> 
> My turn to be reminded of something:
> 
> http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/photographs/henri-cartier-bresson-dans-un-train-roumanie-1975-5494182-details.aspx
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> frank
> 
>> On November 8, 2015 5:25:32 PM EST, Bob W-PDML  wrote:
>> I went with some friends to the Lee Miller exhibition at the Imperial
>> War Museum today - it's a superb exhibition and I recommend it very
>> highly.
>> 
>> I took my Fuji X20 with me because one of my friends has one on my
>> recommendation but couldn't figure out how to set it to black & white
>> only, which is all she's interested in shooting. So before going I set
>> mine up - I normally shoot raw - so I would know what to do, and would
>> look like I knew what I was doing.
>> 
>> I took some snaps to see how it all plays out. This is one of them, and
>> I have a question about it.
>> 
>> http://www.web-options.com/IWM.jpg
>> 
>> If you enlarge it to its full size the 'grain', for want of a better
>> term, is very blobby as if I'd shot it through rippled bathroom glass.
>> I don't think this is noise - the iso was 200 - but it's pretty ugly.
>> I've never noticed anything like this when rendering in b from raw. 
>> 
>> Is this normal for in-camera b jpg? 
>> 
>> Whether it's normal or not, what is the cause?
>> 
>> Ta,
>> B
> 
> -- 
> 
> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson
> 
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> 
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Re: OT: Digital black & white

[Steve Cottrell]

On 8/11/15, Bob W-PDML, discombobulated, unleashed:

>http://www.web-options.com/IWM.jpg
>

>Is this normal for in-camera b jpg? 

I have the following settings saved to my 'C2' on the main dial:


press the 'Q' button lower right to access these settings:

(reading from top left to bottom right)

P for Programme
ISO auto 800
DR400
WB auto

NR 0
L 3:2
FINE
B  (for Black and white)

H tone 0
S tone 0
Color 0
Sharp 0

(timer) OFF
centre focus box
stabilisation (hand icon)2
screen brightness (sun icon) 0


I suspect that the problem your image exhibited could be a problem with
the IS function?

I'll send you an image off list with the above settings applied


-- 


Cheers,
  Cotty


___/\__Broadcast, Corporate,
||  (O)  |Web Video Production
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Re: OT: Digital black & white

[Bob W-PDML]

Thanks Bruce. I think I shot myself into the foot with LR.

B

> On 8 Nov 2015, at 22:40, Bruce Walker  wrote:
> 
> Bob, that looks just like the kind of image you get from an older gen
> cellphone with a fairly lo-rez sensor, like 3-4 mpix.
> 
> How have you got the JPG rendering configured? They usually provide
> two adjustments. Eg: in Ricoh's case, number of pixels (image size)
> and JPEG Quality (1 to 4 stars). If you reduce the size I'd expect
> something like you're seeing here.
> 
> But if that's the result from using the highest Q settings, then I'd
> never use anything but raw. :)
> 
> 
>> On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 5:25 PM, Bob W-PDML  wrote:
>> I went with some friends to the Lee Miller exhibition at the Imperial War 
>> Museum today - it's a superb exhibition and I recommend it very highly.
>> 
>> I took my Fuji X20 with me because one of my friends has one on my 
>> recommendation but couldn't figure out how to set it to black & white only, 
>> which is all she's interested in shooting. So before going I set mine up - I 
>> normally shoot raw - so I would know what to do, and would look like I knew 
>> what I was doing.
>> 
>> I took some snaps to see how it all plays out. This is one of them, and I 
>> have a question about it.
>> 
>> http://www.web-options.com/IWM.jpg
>> 
>> If you enlarge it to its full size the 'grain', for want of a better term, 
>> is very blobby as if I'd shot it through rippled bathroom glass. I don't 
>> think this is noise - the iso was 200 - but it's pretty ugly. I've never 
>> noticed anything like this when rendering in b from raw.
>> 
>> Is this normal for in-camera b jpg?
>> 
>> Whether it's normal or not, what is the cause?
>> 
>> Ta,
>> B
>> --
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> PDML@pdml.net
>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and 
>> follow the directions.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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> 
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Re: OT: Digital black & white

[Bob W-PDML]

On 8 Nov 2015, at 23:21, Steve Cottrell  wrote:
> 
> On 8/11/15, Bob W-PDML, discombobulated, unleashed:
> 
>> Actually, I suspect I'm leading people up the garden path, because I
>> did tweak the shot in LR
> 
> You stuck the fucking craquelure filter onto it ;)
> 

I thought it would make my bum look nicer - it's French for crack allure.

B

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Re: OT: Digital black & white

[knarf]

Maybe ten years ago there was a Magnum exhibit that showed up at a gallery here 
in Toronto. I think the only HCB was ~Sur le Rue Mouffetard~. Can't remember 
the size but it was by far the most expensive print there at $8,000CDN. 

Everything else was $2,000 to $4,000. Even at the higher price I thought 
Henri's was quite reasonable. 

As for yours, I'll have to think about it...

Cheers,

frank

On November 8, 2015 6:49:02 PM EST, Bob W-PDML  wrote:
>Thanks Frank. I don't think mine's even half as good as Henry's, so
>I'll let you have a copy for 1/4th what Christies are asking.
>
>B
>
>> On 8 Nov 2015, at 23:36, knarf  wrote:
>> 
>> I don't see what you're talking about on my phone. And if I did see
>it I wouldn't have an answer as to what it is.
>> 
>> I do like the shot a lot, though. 
>> 
>> My turn to be reminded of something:
>> 
>>
>http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/photographs/henri-cartier-bresson-dans-un-train-roumanie-1975-5494182-details.aspx
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> frank
>> 
>>> On November 8, 2015 5:25:32 PM EST, Bob W-PDML
> wrote:
>>> I went with some friends to the Lee Miller exhibition at the
>Imperial
>>> War Museum today - it's a superb exhibition and I recommend it very
>>> highly.
>>> 
>>> I took my Fuji X20 with me because one of my friends has one on my
>>> recommendation but couldn't figure out how to set it to black &
>white
>>> only, which is all she's interested in shooting. So before going I
>set
>>> mine up - I normally shoot raw - so I would know what to do, and
>would
>>> look like I knew what I was doing.
>>> 
>>> I took some snaps to see how it all plays out. This is one of them,
>and
>>> I have a question about it.
>>> 
>>> http://www.web-options.com/IWM.jpg
>>> 
>>> If you enlarge it to its full size the 'grain', for want of a better
>>> term, is very blobby as if I'd shot it through rippled bathroom
>glass.
>>> I don't think this is noise - the iso was 200 - but it's pretty
>ugly.
>>> I've never noticed anything like this when rendering in b from
>raw. 
>>> 
>>> Is this normal for in-camera b jpg? 
>>> 
>>> Whether it's normal or not, what is the cause?
>>> 
>>> Ta,
>>> B
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson
>> 
>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>> 
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-- 

"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson

Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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