Subject: Re: Pentax and Casio to merge?
Dear all, The sales figures from Jodobashi (which is one of the larger camera chain retailer in Japan) suggest differently. Digital cameras from Pentax seldom enter into the top 10: http://www.digitalcamera.jp/html/yodobashi/yodo-rank.htm It is very hard to believe that Sony was not included in any of the top 10 cameras in Takeshita's list. Regards, Henry Chu 13/1/2003 KT Takeshita wrote: BTW, one of the largest camera franchise published their best 10 sales ranking of digital cameras for the last fiscal half of 2002. Just for your entertainment. Surprise, surprise! 1st Pentax Optio 330GS Explosive sales. Very Pentax-like compactness. Swivelling monitor is excellent. 2nd Nikon D100 Excellent body construction. Reduction of price by less initial options worked well. Good constant sales. 3rd Minolta DiMage Xi Shot up to 3rd ranking despite it was released only in Nov. Thin stylish body. Switch campaign (X to Xi) also worked. 4th Canon IXY digital 200a Excellent ranking despite the full model change to IXY320 in Oct. === _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
Re: Subject: Re: Pentax and Casio to merge?
On 1/13/03 3:36 AM, Iren Henry Chu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The sales figures from Jodobashi (which is one of the larger camera chain retailer in Japan) suggest differently. Digital cameras from Pentax seldom enter into the top 10: http://www.digitalcamera.jp/html/yodobashi/yodo-rank.htm It is very hard to believe that Sony was not included in any of the top 10 cameras in Takeshita's list. Hi Folks, I am aware of the Yodobashi ranking in www.digitalcamera.jp, but it is a snapshot of sales in any given week. The list I quoted was map camera's which covers a longer span of 6 months average of the last year with better explanation why certain models sold well . Yodobashi is not the price leader while the digital camera is currently a price market. If you see their ranking in November, for example, Pentax showed up. Like Sony did not show up in Map's as a volume sales item, Yodobashi did not show Pentax. Each store franchise has different promotions but these lists show overall trend. But the point was that Pentax Optio series digicam was a big success in any measure. Looking through some of the Japanese camera magazines, it is indeed one of the top sellers in what is called compact digicam (i.e., PS) segment. Cheers, Ken
Re: Pentax and Casio to merge?
I'll bet anyone in this list a pint of Fiddler's Elbow that it will be a CMOS in the Pentax DSLR. Only a fool would take that bet! The lower cost of CMOS and the ever-improving quality has made it almost universal, even in very high-end DSLRs. In that case I should be inundated with bets ;-) Oh, swipe me! He paints with light! http://www.macads.co.uk/snaps/ Free UK Macintosh Classified Ads at http://www.macads.co.uk/
Re: Pentax and Casio to merge?
I'll buy you a Leinenkugel's (local Wisconsin brew) if I lose. :-) Sounds like I get the local Wisconsin brew if *I* lose ;-) You're on. Oh, swipe me! He paints with light! http://www.macads.co.uk/snaps/ Free UK Macintosh Classified Ads at http://www.macads.co.uk/
Re: Subject: Re: Pentax and Casio to merge?
On 1/13/03 7:46 PM, Iren Henry Chu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been puzzled by the Jodobashi list for some time because of the poor showing of Pentax. Thanks for answering my question. I agree with you that the sales direction of Jodobashi is a bit different from Map Camera. I visited Japan several times and usually I find more Pentax stuff in Map Camera, and in cheaper price too. Hi Henry, I am currently living in Canada, but whenever I make a trip to Japan, I never fail to stop by Shinjuku/Akihabara area, the camera capital of the world :-). I am sure you do the same. Shinjuku is where the big (or mega) camera stores are concentrated as you know, but Map Camera appears to be more dedicated to the digicam, as you pointed out. That's why I thought the Map Camera statistics might be showing truer cross section of sales, but these are all speculations on my part. They have two really mega stores there, larger than Yodobashi's and recently converted one store to a dedicated digicam store. Quite a sight! Yodobashi has some catch up to do as far as the digicam sales goes. But the top ranking of Pentax Optio was a surprise to me. I was aware that pentax was doing very well on digicam sales but not as good as the Map Camera showed. But Yodobashi usually gives a good benchmark on overall camera sales including film camera. Sony digicams are excellent products and selling very well but not quite strong enough to make top 10 volume sales. My understanding is that the memory stick is really hurting the sales. Well, that's all I know :-). Cheers, Ken
Re: Pentax and Casio to merge?
Marketing BS. There is a perception that Pentax can't design a computer system in any of their cameras. The reality is that, they can and they did. As for chip fabrication, they don't have the means to do so, hence they sometimes contract out the work to Casio or Hitachi which happens to make boring parts for their other cameras as well.Casio's field expertise in making small computers is no doubt well known, expecially with their FX-720P (a calculator/pocket computer combo). Some zoom compact cameras made by Pentax had parts made not only by Casio, but by Sanyo, Hitachi, Matshushita, Mabuchi, Seiko and Copal. Just because Pentax is working with Casio on the digital doesn't mean that Pentax is merging with them. If they do, why not say Pentax is merging with all of the other companies? but because the level of compactness of the camera itself. This means, all of the functions inside the camera needs to be controlled by the main CPU, while most of the sub-functions are controlled by their relative ASICs (Application Specific Integrated Circuits). ASIC is also being used in the Optios to convert the analog input of the CCD chip into digital, therefore making the CCD chip brand used irrelevant. Not really. Stuff hard coded into an ASIC will be very sensor dependant. The reason this is all done inside an ASIC is twofold: - Size - Cheapest to manufacture for volume consumer electronics. That's exactly what I meant. CCD chip brand is irrelevant because once Pentax sources out a CCD chip for the model, they tend to stick with it. In fact, sourcing parts for digitals is easier than sourcing parts for a 35mm compact, where a maker is required to stock parts for up to 7 years, some up to 10 for service repairs. All makers make digitals on a quota basis. They will either only make a camera on the need to sell basis or make a specified number of them. With a number in mind, they can source out a reliable CCD chip manufacturer for the best possible price vs performance based on quantity purchase. A maker must also rely on the CCD chip manufacturer's ability to deliver parts on time and be able to do so in the forseeable future for future models. The maker's dependence on the supplier's reputation to provide the necessary parts is key to deciding on what Pentax will use. A Pentax rep tech had told me that they will not treat a CCD chip like some holy grail that some CCD chip manufacturers like to portray themselves in the consumer magazines. A CCD chip is just one part of the many hundreds to thousands of parts in a digital camera. The consumer will past judgement on how good the pictures are from a Pentax digital. And so far, the Optios are doing great and have very few returns and I have every confidence that their DSLR will do the same. Rick... __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: Pentax and Casio to merge?
A Pentax rep tech had told me that they will not treat a CCD chip like some holy grail that some CCD chip manufacturers like to portray themselves in the consumer magazines. A CCD chip is just one part of the many hundreds to thousands of parts in a digital camera. The consumer will past judgement on how good the pictures are from a Pentax digital. And so far, the Optios are doing great and have very few returns and I have every confidence that their DSLR will do the same. I'll bet anyone in this list a pint of Fiddler's Elbow that it will be a CMOS in the Pentax DSLR. Cotty Oh, swipe me! He paints with light! http://www.macads.co.uk/snaps/ Free UK Macintosh Classified Ads at http://www.macads.co.uk/
Re: Pentax and Casio to merge?
On 1/12/03 11:33 AM, Rick Diaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is a perception that Pentax can't design a computer system in any of their cameras. The reality is that, they can and they did. Hi folks, Above is true. In the current digital development, Pentax are putting more emphasis on the software side (they can design any level of hardware), and hiring more software engineers now. They also formed a JV called Gear Neuve with Altech Sanyo to promote the direct digital image transmission thru PHS, mainly targeted for commercial use (construction industry etc). This will also trickle into consumer market eventually. Pentax is certainly not sleeping. All they are doing is to measure the most profitable and timely entry into the lucrative market. BTW, one of the largest camera franchise published their best 10 sales ranking of digital cameras for the last fiscal half of 2002. Just for your entertainment. Surprise, surprise! From the gadget freak land of Japan, trend is still the compact PS. Advanced amateurs, like everywhere else, are basically taking a wait see attitude for DSLR. No rush, unless you really need them, such as for product shots etc. Today's digital PS satisfy most consumers. This particular franchise predicts the popularity of 5mp PS and DSLR at $1,000 level in 2003. We shall see. Other large camera franchise would soon release their latest ranking. 1st Pentax Optio 330GS Explosive sales. Very Pentax-like compactness. Swivelling monitor is excellent. 2nd Nikon D100 Excellent body construction. Reduction of price by less initial options worked well. Good constant sales. 3rd Minolta DiMage Xi Shot up to 3rd ranking despite it was released only in Nov. Thin stylish body. Switch campaign (X to Xi) also worked. 4th Canon IXY digital 200a Excellent ranking despite the full model change to IXY320 in Oct. 5th Canon EOS D-60 Behind D100 mainly because of product shortage in July/Aug. It comes with more initial options, as opposing to D100. 6th Pentax Optio 430RS Pioneer in 4mp PS digital. Very Pentax-like, such as compact metal body and user friendly button controls. 7th Fuji FinePix F401 Square body with blue illumination, high res honeycomb CCD. 8th Nikon CoolPix 5000 Despite over 1 year old model, overwhelming support from wide angle lovers. With the free firmware update, both new and used ones are selling constantly. 9th Minolta DiMage 7i 28-200mm equiv. Of versatile zoom. Manual zoom is the key to the success. Very easy to frame the picture. 10th Olympus Camedia 5050 Excellent ranking despite the release in Nov. and the price is not that cheap. Can use XD, SmartMedia CF. 5mp with F1.8 lens. Sales is expected to rise.
Re: Pentax and Casio to merge?
Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll bet anyone in this list a pint of Fiddler's Elbow that it will be a CMOS in the Pentax DSLR. Only a fool would take that bet! The lower cost of CMOS and the ever-improving quality has made it almost universal, even in very high-end DSLRs. -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: Pentax and Casio to merge?
I'll bet anyone in this list a pint of Fiddler's Elbow that it will be a CMOS in the Pentax DSLR. You're on. But I want a real British Ginger beer, okay? I'll buy you a Leinenkugel's (local Wisconsin brew) if I lose. :-) --Mike
Re: Pentax and Casio to merge?
Only a fool would take that bet! The lower cost of CMOS and the ever-improving quality has made it almost universal, even in very high-end DSLRs. Huh? I thought only Canon (well, and Foveon, if they count) currently had CMOS sensors. --Mike
Re: Pentax and Casio to merge?
Mike Johnston [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Only a fool would take that bet! The lower cost of CMOS and the ever-improving quality has made it almost universal, even in very high-end DSLRs. Huh? I thought only Canon (well, and Foveon, if they count) currently had CMOS sensors. New Kodak 14-megapixel DSLR uses CMOS. EOS-1Ds is CMOS. (As are D-60 and D-30) I'll bet upcoming Nikons use CMOS as well. -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: Pentax and Casio to merge?
Rick Diaz wrote: Actually, the MZ, PZ, SF, 645N/N2 ad the 67II share the same ideology in computer technology with the Optios and the EIs. A Pentax rep tech told me that the MZ series cameras have a very sophisticated computer system, not because that it needs it, Marketing BS. but because the level of compactness of the camera itself. This means, all of the functions inside the camera needs to be controlled by the main CPU, while most of the sub-functions are controlled by their relative ASICs (Application Specific Integrated Circuits). ASIC is also being used in the Optios to convert the analog input of the CCD chip into digital, therefore making the CCD chip brand used irrelevant. Not really. Stuff hard coded into an ASIC will be very sensor dependant. The reason this is all done inside an ASIC is twofold: - Size - Cheapest to manufacture for volume consumer electronics. R
Re[2]: Pentax and Casio to merge?
Peter wrote: PA You must be kidding. Every SLR they've introduced since 1987, except for PA LX and K1000 variants were highly dependant on electronics and PA software, (usually in the form of firmware). The days of PA mechanical or even electro-mechanical cameras with a bit of add on PA electronics in the form of meter have been over for a long time. PA The MZ/ZX series of cameras are highly sophisticated computers PA with plastic camera shaped shells wrapped around them. Image transformation routines are a bit more CPU intensive than exposure calculation and power management. Previously 4 bit data channels and 1 KHz system clocks were more than enough to drive a film camera. The hardware demand peaked with the F5 that included a 16 bit processor. Nowadays you can't even touch a megapixel in real time without processors ticking in MHz. I believe that Henry is right: Pentax needed a stronger foothold in electronics. That 0.01s shutter lag in Optio-S must be largely due to the Sanyo components. Servus, Alin
Re: Pentax and Casio to merge?
Henry wrote: From expertise point of view, Casio appears to compliment well with Pentax. One is an experienced manufacturer for consumer electronics product but they know nothing about optical design. Pentax has declared their intention on shifting their camera line to digital which they don't have a strong RD basis in electronics. Pentax must have obtained some backing and support in electronics before making such a bold statement. Almost certainly Casio is providing the digital hardware, Pentax the rest. The EXILIM digital camera series of Casio is a big hit in Japan which outsell Sony's Cybershot U series, and people are just realizing that this is a joint effort between Casio and Pentax. Almost certainly designed and manufactured by Pentax. Besides Casio, any large electronic giants in Japan who want to put a foothold in camera industry might also be interested in investing on Pentax, a relatively small company with strong optical development and production capability. Could be or they may be just as happy with providing digital hardware for camera manufacturers. Pentax recently stated that they would not go into exclusive strategic alliances with any manufacturers but basically shop aound. Pål
Re: Pentax and Casio to merge?
Pål Jensen wrote: Henry wrote: From expertise point of view, Casio appears to compliment well with Pentax. One is an experienced manufacturer for consumer electronics product but they know nothing about optical design. Pentax has declared their intention on shifting their camera line to digital which they don't have a strong RD basis in electronics. Pentax must have obtained some backing and support in electronics before making such a bold statement. Almost certainly Casio is providing the digital hardware, Pentax the rest. The EXILIM digital camera series of Casio is a big hit in Japan which outsell Sony's Cybershot U series, and people are just realizing that this is a joint effort between Casio and Pentax. Almost certainly designed and manufactured by Pentax. Does anyone have any idea how I can find out who made the fine lens in my Epson PhotoPC 750Z? It just says, Epson Digital Camera Lens and f = 5.2-15.6mm 1:2.8-4.7. It's got some lovely reflections, like later SMC lenses! Deep purple, grayish purple and amber highlights... Just curious... keith whaley
Re: Pentax and Casio to merge?
Henry wrote: It appears that the very popular EX FILM series of Casio digital cameras are jointly developed with Pentax. As they are working close and sharing success in digital era, are they going to merge? Therews no reason to smell merging just because of joint development. Pentax is mostly behind HP digital cameras as well and God knows how much of other manufacturers PS. Pål
Re: Pentax and Casio to merge?
Hi Iren, on 09 Jan 03 you wrote in pentax.list: As they are working close and sharing success in digital era, are they going to merge? It seems that Casio has licensed some Pentax technology: the Casio RV is a Optio RS sibling. They seem to have an strategic alliance. I don't think that they will merge. There were other strategic partners (Pal has already mentioned HP) without the necessity to merge... Regards, Heiko
RE: Pentax and Casio to merge?
You mean they are trying to sell something??? :-) César Panama City, Florida -- -Original Message- -- From: Christian Skofteland [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] -- Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 9:19 PM -- -- Who cares... Nice ad! ;-) -- -- Christian Skofteland -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- -- - Original Message - -- From: Iren Henry Chu [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- The new Casio EX-Z3 looks very similar to Pentax Optio S: -- -- http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20030108/ces01_07.jpg -- --
Re: Pentax and Casio to merge?
There's a Casio digital PS at Wally World that has a Pentax lens on it. The camera seems to be fairly nice. Extremely short shutter lag... great features. Over $400 though. Nick Wright
RE: Optio S: joint development with Casio (was Re: Pentax and Casio to merge?)
On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, Iren Henry Chu wrote: The new Casio EX-Z3 looks very similar to Pentax Optio S: It is indeed a sister camera of Optio S: http://www.exilim.jp/ex_z3/index.html where you can see the same SMC Pentax Zoom Lens logo in front I can't resist playing Devil's advocate. Where it has a SMC Pentax lens would we be able (legally) to use the Casio to post on the PUG ? BUTCH Each man had only one genuine vocation - to find the way to himself Hermann Hesse (Demian)
RE: Optio S: joint development with Casio (was Re: Pentax and Casio to merge?)
I don't see why not, you would be using a Pentax Lens. At 07:07 PM 1/9/2003 -0500, you wrote: On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, Iren Henry Chu wrote: The new Casio EX-Z3 looks very similar to Pentax Optio S: It is indeed a sister camera of Optio S: http://www.exilim.jp/ex_z3/index.html where you can see the same SMC Pentax Zoom Lens logo in front I can't resist playing Devil's advocate. Where it has a SMC Pentax lens would we be able (legally) to use the Casio to post on the PUG ? BUTCH Each man had only one genuine vocation - to find the way to himself Hermann Hesse (Demian) Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. --Groucho Marx
Re: Pentax and Casio to merge?
Pal wrote: Therews no reason to smell merging just because of joint development. Pentax is mostly behind HP digital cameras as well and God knows how much of other manufacturers PS. Yes. The story of Casio and Pentax merging is just my guess only. But nothing impossible, as who can guess beforehand that Konica would accquire Minolta? Their starting light of merging can be traced back to 2000 when the two companies started joint development of some successful products in office equipment. From expertise point of view, Casio appears to compliment well with Pentax. One is an experienced manufacturer for consumer electronics product but they know nothing about optical design. Pentax has declared their intention on shifting their camera line to digital which they don't have a strong RD basis in electronics. Pentax must have obtained some backing and support in electronics before making such a bold statement. The EXILIM digital camera series of Casio is a big hit in Japan which outsell Sony's Cybershot U series, and people are just realizing that this is a joint effort between Casio and Pentax. Besides Casio, any large electronic giants in Japan who want to put a foothold in camera industry might also be interested in investing on Pentax, a relatively small company with strong optical development and production capability. Afterall, digital camera market is the fastest growing sector in consumer electronics. For instance, Sanyo has very strong ties with Pentax. They have just jointly set up a company for business digital cameras. The electronics inside Optio 230/330GS come from Sanyo. Regards, Henry Chu 10/1/2003 _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
