Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
Caveman, S! Don't go putting dangerous ideas like that into their heads. Pentax's beancounters are even now rubbing their hands and going Bwahahahahaha... at the very thought of it. regards, Anthony Farr - Original Message - From: Caveman [EMAIL PROTECTED] (snip) In fact, I propose an even better approach. An yearly photo tax that we should pay to the companies. If you want to take photos, you pay the tax. This can be easily enforced with the appropriate firmware. You pay the tax and get an yearly authorisation code that you enter, or go to an authorised camera shop to do it for you. cheers, caveman ;-)
Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
Anthony Farr wrote: Caveman, S! Don't go putting dangerous ideas like that into their heads. I have even better ones ;-) You could do it like with calling cards / mobile phones. You buy the card, scratch it and get the code, enter it et voila, instead of 30 minutes of talk, you get 24 exposures. Or you may buy professional cards for 36 exposures, or XL packages of 240 and XXL of 360. Naah, it's too obvious. We can hide it. After a number of exposures, the camera blips and displays E734. You look in the manual and find out it means Error 734 - service needed. Next time it's E345 - shutter calibration required. etc. The guys don't actually have to service anything, they just take your money, reset a cmos counter and here you go for another round of shots. cheers, caveman
Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
Hmm... not so bad idea, but according to my secret source Pentax is going even further. Very soon they will start selling just promises of outstanding products to come. You pay a yearly fee and get nothing. They earn money and spend nothing in annoying stuff such as RD, manufacturing, quality control, and so on. No worries of possible uncompatibilities, No obsolescence, No faults, No service, No problems at all. Always top equipment available in your dreams. As long as it will last... Cheers, Dario Bonazza - Original Message - From: Caveman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 9:37 AM Subject: Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format Anthony Farr wrote: Caveman, S! Don't go putting dangerous ideas like that into their heads. I have even better ones ;-) You could do it like with calling cards / mobile phones. You buy the card, scratch it and get the code, enter it et voila, instead of 30 minutes of talk, you get 24 exposures. Or you may buy professional cards for 36 exposures, or XL packages of 240 and XXL of 360. Naah, it's too obvious. We can hide it. After a number of exposures, the camera blips and displays E734. You look in the manual and find out it means Error 734 - service needed. Next time it's E345 - shutter calibration required. etc. The guys don't actually have to service anything, they just take your money, reset a cmos counter and here you go for another round of shots. cheers, caveman
Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
Is it possible that PDML itself bears some of the blame for Pentax's shift to body controlled aperture. After being pilloried for dropping the feature on the MZ-S, it returns with increased emphasis on later cameras. So what happens? They get pilloried again! Bet they wish they were Asahi Brewing instead of Asahi Optical. The brewery's customers are bound to be a more cheerful lot. regards, Anthony Farr - Original Message - From: Bill Owens [EMAIL PROTECTED] It works from the body, just like the PZ-1p. Remember, most people here complained about the MZ-S not having aperture available from the body. Now the complaint is they want to use the aperture ring instead of the body. Go Figure! Bill
Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
Intelligent purchasing would prevent the problem. A potential customer who also owns another camera which lacks body control of the aperture would simply not purchase an FAJ lens. There are still lenses in the current FA lineup that are close to the FAJs in specification, so just opt for one of those instead, if you must get a new lens at all. Existing Pentax owners (since A series) in all likelihood would not need to buy any new lens. regards, Anthony Farr - Original Message - From: Caveman [EMAIL PROTECTED] (snip) P.S. How do you set aperture with two *current* pieces of equipment like a MZ-5n with a FAJ lens ? Ain't this flagrant incompatibility ?
Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
Anthony Farr wrote: Is it possible that PDML itself bears some of the blame for Pentax's shift to body controlled aperture. After being pilloried for dropping the feature on the MZ-S, it returns with increased emphasis on later cameras. So what happens? They get pilloried again! Bet they wish they were Asahi Brewing instead of Asahi Optical. The brewery's customers are bound to be a more cheerful lot. Certainly the louder of the two! keith g regards, Anthony Farr - Original Message - From: Bill Owens [EMAIL PROTECTED] It works from the body, just like the PZ-1p. Remember, most people here complained about the MZ-S not having aperture available from the body. Now the complaint is they want to use the aperture ring instead of the body. Go Figure! Bill
Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
At about $10K or more, digital MF backs will have to come down quite a bit for them to be appealing to me. I know the 35 cameras came down from these kind of prices before, but I'm not going to get worried for at least 5 years. Steven Desjardins Department of Chemistry Washington and Lee University Lexington, VA 24450 (540) 458-8873 FAX: (540) 458-8878 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
On Tuesday, June 17, 2003, at 09:21 AM, Steve Desjardins wrote: At about $10K or more, digital MF backs will have to come down quite a bit for them to be appealing to me. The Leaf C-most was under US$10K over a year ago. With full-frame 645 backs coming out, I think prices of the non-full-frame backs will drop some more. The difficulty, I think, is getting a good discount on them because they're still primarily sold through full service dealers. --jc
Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
Realistically, I'm really not their intended audience. I bought a used 645 and have to think carefully about buying a $1500 DSLR. A $4000 back would be very competitive and still beyond my range. I'm assuming here that pros who use MF are willing to pay a little more for equipment (given what MF prices look like). Steven Desjardins Department of Chemistry Washington and Lee University Lexington, VA 24450 (540) 458-8873 FAX: (540) 458-8878 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/17/03 10:13AM On Tuesday, June 17, 2003, at 09:21 AM, Steve Desjardins wrote: At about $10K or more, digital MF backs will have to come down quite a bit for them to be appealing to me. The Leaf C-most was under US$10K over a year ago. With full-frame 645 backs coming out, I think prices of the non-full-frame backs will drop some more. The difficulty, I think, is getting a good discount on them because they're still primarily sold through full service dealers. --jc
Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
- Original Message - From: Anthony Farr [EMAIL PROTECTED] Intelligent purchasing would prevent the problem. C'mon! How can you demand _intelligence_ from this lot! (grinning, ducking and running very, very, fast...) Cheers, Jostein
Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
From the buyers POV, yes, absolutely. I was trying to see things from a manufacturer's POV; which system to concentrate their effort on. The larger the film area, the bigger the challenge to replace it with a chip. Jostein - Original Message - From: Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jostein [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 4:58 AM Subject: Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format Jostein, That would only be if your intention was to go digital instead of film. Bruce Monday, June 16, 2003, 2:29:35 PM, you wrote: Snip J Another reason to choose the 645 over 67 is that even the large MedF CCDs J are not full size 645... J Jostein
Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
- Original Message - From: Caveman [EMAIL PROTECTED] And that's what happens when you start to play compatibility games. Reasonable doubts appear and every possibility is open. I'm sure it helps sales a lot. It would certainly help sales a lot to be backwards compatible, even _with_ a new series of FAJ-645 lenses. For one, it's easier to sell a new system with a wide existing range of lenses and accessories. For another, potential buyers will benefit if they don't need to sell out existing equipment to go digital. For yet another, Pentax wouldn't dare the economic risk of thrashing the whole existing 645 range for a new product. They have truly demonstrated over the years that they are an _evolutionary_ company, not a revolutionary one. Jostein
Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
What 'K' lenses are in the current catalogue? K28/f3.5 Shift, K500/f4.5, K1000/f8, Mirror lenses? Arnold Sylwester Pietrzyk schrieb: All 'K' lenses (maybe except for 100f4 bellows - I am not sure if it has automatic diaphragm) in current catalog uses stop-down metering and thus are fully compatible with *ist cameras.
Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
Anthony Farr wrote: Bet they wish they were Asahi Brewing instead of Asahi Optical. The brewery's customers are bound to be a more cheerful lot. http://pug.komkon.org/03jun/vdsync.html ;-) cheers, caveman
Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
Dario Bonazza 2 wrote: Hmm... not so bad idea, but according to my secret source Pentax is going even further. Very soon they will start selling just promises of outstanding products to come. You pay a yearly fee and get nothing. C'mon. They could send you some nice product brochures. They need just one graphic artist or two. All sort of dream cameras and lenses. Hell, we could even have an LXn ! cheers, caveman
Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
Of course lenses for the 645 won't be compatible. Right? Jim A. From: Pål Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:15:53 +0200 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Fw: Pentax announced development of digital medium format Resent-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:12:48 -0400 Pentax has just announced in Japan that they are developing a new medium format camera that can take Kodak digital back, with assistance from kodak: http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20030616-0004-nkn-ind Would you please spread the news on PDML?
Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
In other words, this is not necessarily a digital back but a digital medium format camera; that is, a camera that take one of the Pentax MF lenses. Is this the rumored 645D or is it related to the new and compact 67, or is it both? Pål
Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
We don't need no stinkin' lens mount compatibility. It impairs new equipment sales and slows down progress. They should be changed on a regular basis, each two years or so. This would prevent such lowly tactics as buying used, which impairs cash flow to the company and makes difficult to recover money spent on research, development and tooling. In fact, I propose an even better approach. An yearly photo tax that we should pay to the companies. If you want to take photos, you pay the tax. This can be easily enforced with the appropriate firmware. You pay the tax and get an yearly authorisation code that you enter, or go to an authorised camera shop to do it for you. cheers, caveman ;-) Jim Apilado wrote: Of course lenses for the 645 won't be compatible. Right? Jim A.
Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
Pål Jensen wrote: In other words, this is not necessarily a digital back but a digital medium format camera; that is, a camera that take one of the Pentax MF lenses. What is the base of your assumption that it will take existing lenses ? cheers, caveman
Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
On 03.6.16 3:44 PM, Pål Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In other words, this is not necessarily a digital back but a digital medium format camera; that is, a camera that take one of the Pentax MF lenses. Is this the rumored 645D or is it related to the new and compact 67, or is it both? We've been hearing for quite some time that Pentax have been developing 645D. However, this particular article suggests more like Kodak made a move because of share of MF market by Pentax. It makes more sense to Kodak to make digital backs for Pentax MF cameras than any other brands naturally, and Pentax probably found common benefit there. To me, it sounds like 645 digital back and Pentax are willing to modify the current design to take the digital back (hence exchangeable film back too). But then why not for 67 too. Compact 67 rumour is not dead yet. Like this article, something suddenly crops up out of nowhere. Cheers, Ken
Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
I hate you! ;-) At 06:25 PM 6/16/03 -0400, you wrote: Peter Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are still 'K' lenses in the current catalog. I'm glad I didn't buy one of these in the last year or so. Then I'd really feel shafted. I bought a used K 15mm f/3.5 (sob!) -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com To grasp the true meaning of socialism, imagine a world where everything is designed by the post office, even the sleaze. O'Rourke, P.J.
Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
It works from the body, just like the PZ-1p. Remember, most people here complained about the MZ-S not having aperture available from the body. Now the complaint is they want to use the aperture ring instead of the body. Go Figure! Bill - Original Message - From: Caveman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 5:54 PM Subject: Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format Pål Jensen wrote: They never played compatibility games with current lenses. Only those that nobody has bought for more than 20 years. Well, then tell us how the aperture ring on the FA lenses (limited if you want) works with their latest film camera (*ist). cheers, caveman
Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
Bill Owens wrote: It works from the body, just like the PZ-1p. Remember, most people here complained about the MZ-S not having aperture available from the body. Now the complaint is they want to use the aperture ring instead of the body. Go Figure! The decent thing would be to allow you to use it both ways, at your will. cheers, caveman P.S. How do you set aperture with two *current* pieces of equipment like a MZ-5n with a FAJ lens ? Ain't this flagrant incompatibility ?
Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
This is unusual. Most of the time they are totally silent until a year after they release the product. Getting into the act early with product plans being announced is quite a change. At the least, it indicates that they don't intend to give up on Medium Format. Bruce Monday, June 16, 2003, 11:05:44 AM, you wrote: C Yeah. Why buy a Mamiya RBZ or Hassy with a digital back now, when you C could wait an unspecified amount of time for an unspecified product from C Pentax ? C Just wait. It's The Pentax Way. C cheers, C caveman C KT Takeshita wrote: On 03.6.16 1:28 PM, Jostein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Squeezed the text on the webpage through Babelfish. Here's what came out. I feel sorry for the spilt blood of Contax and Hasse Lu :-) HEADLINEPENTAX TO DEVELOP DIGITAL MEDIUM FORMAT CAMERA IN RESPONSE TO THE NEEDS BY PROFESSIONALS TEXT Pentax has started the development of digital medium format camera. In addition to the proliferation of digital cameras, DTP system has been progressing rapidly and the needs from photo studios are increasing. In this environment, Pentax (Imaging System Business Division, Product Planning Dep't) have entered into the production planning. While Pentax have been enjoying the top share in the MF market, its design is unique and could not respond to the digital back method (in place of film back). OTOH, Kodak, who have been supplying digital back to Mamiya OP, Contax and HB etc, recognize the possibility to collaborate with Pentax (Professional Division, DSC Team), and are positive in developing the digital system for Pentax equipment. Ken
Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
Bill Owens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It works from the body, just like the PZ-1p. Remember, most people here complained about the MZ-S not having aperture available from the body. Now the complaint is they want to use the aperture ring instead of the body. Go Figure! The PZ-1p allowed you to control the aperture from the body *or* the lens. An important difference when the lens doesn't have an A setting. I still have (and love) my PZ-1p! -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
Peter Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hate you! ;-) Don't feel bad. I'd planned to use it on the DSLR. Little did I know. :( At 06:25 PM 6/16/03 -0400, you wrote: Peter Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are still 'K' lenses in the current catalog. I'm glad I didn't buy one of these in the last year or so. Then I'd really feel shafted. I bought a used K 15mm f/3.5 (sob!) -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com To grasp the true meaning of socialism, imagine a world where everything is designed by the post office, even the sleaze. O'Rourke, P.J. -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
Then you are screwed. At 09:06 PM 6/16/03 -0400, you wrote: Peter Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hate you! ;-) Don't feel bad. I'd planned to use it on the DSLR. Little did I know. :( At 06:25 PM 6/16/03 -0400, you wrote: Peter Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are still 'K' lenses in the current catalog. I'm glad I didn't buy one of these in the last year or so. Then I'd really feel shafted. I bought a used K 15mm f/3.5 (sob!) -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com To grasp the true meaning of socialism, imagine a world where everything is designed by the post office, even the sleaze. O'Rourke, P.J. -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com To grasp the true meaning of socialism, imagine a world where everything is designed by the post office, even the sleaze. O'Rourke, P.J.
Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, Caveman wrote: What is the base of your assumption that it will take existing lenses ? 645 lenses are all A or FA.. ;) -- http://www.infotainment.org - more fun than a poke in your eye. http://www.eighteenpercent.com- photography and portfolio.
Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
gfen wrote: On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, Caveman wrote: What is the base of your assumption that it will take existing lenses ? 645 lenses are all A or FA.. ;) What about a new FAJ 645 series ? ;-) cheers, caveman
Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, Caveman wrote: What is the base of your assumption that it will take existing lenses ? 645 lenses are all A or FA.. ;) What about a new FAJ 645 series ? ;-) No way, the 645 is all black.. that means its PRO! -- http://www.infotainment.org - more fun than a poke in your eye. http://www.eighteenpercent.com- photography and portfolio.
Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
Jostein, That would only be if your intention was to go digital instead of film. Bruce Monday, June 16, 2003, 2:29:35 PM, you wrote: Snip J Another reason to choose the 645 over 67 is that even the large MedF CCDs J are not full size 645... J Jostein
Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
Don't feel bad. I'd planned to use it on the DSLR. Little did I know. :( K15/3.5 is doomed with the *istD. Sell it to me. You need the 'A'. :-) regards, Alan Chan _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
645 lenses are all A or FA.. ;) That's why Pentax didn't work on a 645 digital back, because they needed to design a 645D which takes no A or FA lenses. They will mount, but wthout metering. :-) regards, Alan Chan _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: Pentax announced development of digital medium format
What about a new FAJ 645 series ? ;-) No way, the 645 is all black.. that means its PRO! That's even better! They didn't even need to paint them silver. You know how much they will save? :-) regards, Alan Chan _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
