Re: Chromogenic BW (Was:: OT: Almost ready to by a scanner)
Butch Black wrote: The problem with the Ilford film is that it is nearly impossible to get a neutral BW printing on color paper and any exposure change brings a major shift in color. I believe Ilfords philosophy behind that was that you proof in color but your final print should be printed with conventional BW paper. Steve wrote: It's less of an issue now that minilabs are switching to digital printing - the last time I took XP2 to a minilab I was offered (and accepted) true BW prints as a no-cost option. That's true I forgot about digital mini labs ability to desaturate a print made from a negative. Once dialed in they do a good job. Butch Each man had only one genuine vocation - to find the way to himself. Hermann Hesse (Demian)
Re: Chromogenic BW (Was:: OT: Almost ready to by a scanner)
- Original Message - From: graywolf Subject: Re: Chromogenic BW (Was:: OT: Almost ready to by a scanner) Well, actually, if you want a good BW image from color film you need to use a panchromatic enlarging paper like Panalure. Traditional BW papers do not give proper response to color negatives. Now, Bill Robb's statement that chromogenic BW does not worked well with variable contrast papers does not match my experiences. However, I have not used the current generation chromogenic BW's. My own experience is limited to the old XP1 film, usually developed in XP1 developer, though sometimes done by a very good minilab. Reread. I said colour negative film doesn't react well to black and white paper, not chromogenic. Chromogenic is a whole different beastie, although I have my doubts about the newer deep base ones like Select and Portra. Not first hand experience with em, I don't have a darkroom at present, just doubts. William Robb
Re: Chromogenic BW (Was:: OT: Almost ready to by a scanner)
Graywolf wrote: Now, Bill Robb's statement that chromogenic BW does not worked well with variable contrast papers does not match my experiences. However, I have not used the current generation chromogenic BW's. My own experience is limited to the old XP1 film, usually developed in XP1 developer, though sometimes done by a very good minilab. I have found the Ilford to be the best at printing on VC paper, All the Kodak and the Konica film have an orange masking similar to the color film. This acts like a low contrast printing filter so it is almost impossible to dial in enough contrast to print correctly. They are meant to be printed on color paper (or Panalure I suppose though I have never tried that. The problem with the Ilford film is that it is nearly impossible to get a neutral BW printing on color paper and any exposure change brings a major shift in color. I believe Ilfords philosophy behind that was that you proof in color but your final print should be printed with conventional BW paper. Butch Each man had only one genuine vocation - to find the way to himself. Hermann Hesse (Demian)
Re: Chromogenic BW (Was:: OT: Almost ready to by a scanner)
Butch Black wrote: The problem with the Ilford film is that it is nearly impossible to get a neutral BW printing on color paper and any exposure change brings a major shift in color. I believe Ilfords philosophy behind that was that you proof in color but your final print should be printed with conventional BW paper. It's less of an issue now that minilabs are switching to digital printing - the last time I took XP2 to a minilab I was offered (and accepted) true BW prints as a no-cost option. S
Re: Chromogenic BW (Was:: OT: Almost ready to by a scanner)
C-41 Minilab 1hr capable! At 10:45 PM 3/18/2004 +0300, you wrote: this has probably been discussed to death before, but what's the reason to use chromogenic bw? if you take a color negative film, and print on bw paper, wouldn't it give you the same result? am i missing something very basic here? best, mishka -Original Message- From: Peter J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] Traditional BW film. It should work with Chromogenic BW. But then Bill doesn't like Chromogenic BW.
Re: Chromogenic BW (Was:: OT: Almost ready to by a scanner)
Stupidly wide exposure latitude. Tiger Moses wrote: C-41 Minilab 1hr capable! At 10:45 PM 3/18/2004 +0300, you wrote: this has probably been discussed to death before, but what's the reason to use chromogenic bw? if you take a color negative film, and print on bw paper, wouldn't it give you the same result? am i missing something very basic here? best, mishka -Original Message- From: Peter J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] Traditional BW film. It should work with Chromogenic BW. But then Bill doesn't like Chromogenic BW.
RE: Chromogenic BW (Was:: OT: Almost ready to by a scanner)
The opposite seems true too. When you print chromogenic negs on colour paper the contrast is completely different to BW papers. I tried using chromogenics because I could get it developed and proofed (6x4s) in any minilab in an afternoon, but the contrast problem made the proof useless and I ended up doing a contact sheet anyway. From there I decided I might as well develop it myself and stick with fp4/hp5 that I prefer. Paul Ewins Melbourne, Australia -Original Message- From: William Robb [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Variable contrast black and white papers often don't react well to colour negative film. Gaak. It doesn't matter if the paper is VC or not. William Robb
Re: Chromogenic BW (Was:: OT: Almost ready to by a scanner)
At 10:45 PM 3/18/2004 +0300, you wrote: this has probably been discussed to death before, but what's the reason to use chromogenic bw? if you take a color negative film, and print on bw paper, wouldn't it give you the same result? am i missing something very basic here? best, mishka The masking on color negative film interferes with proper tonal renditions. Kodak makes a BW paper (Panalure) designed especially to print color negatives. Some conventional papers seem to do a better job with color negs then others. Ilford multi grade IV does well IIRC. Chromegenics have their place. They area good film for portraits as they are somewhat softer then conventional BW films. Most times you do not want maximum sharpness in a portrait. MY 2 Butch Each man had only one genuine vocation - to find the way to himself. Hermann Hesse (Demian)
Re: Chromogenic BW (Was:: OT: Almost ready to by a scanner)
Someone (sorry, I lost track of who) asked: this has probably been discussed to death before, but what's the reason to use chromogenic bw? if you take a color negative film, and print on bw paper, wouldn't it give you the same result? am i missing something very basic here? Yes -- that a colour negative printed on colour paper will generally yield a colour image, but a chromogenic bw negative printed on colour paper is supposed to produce a monochrome image. A colour negative printed on bw white paper will produce a bw image, yeah. Then someone else said: Variable contrast black and white papers often don't react well to colour negative film. and Mr Robb remarked: Gaak. It doesn't matter if the paper is VC or not. In my limited (and mostly not recent) experience, it was *much* easier to print from colour negatives onto non-VC bw paper than onto VC. ERN
