Re: Turbulent age
--- K.Takeshita [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, Sony brand should be really at work here. I agree... In fact in most respects the Minolta 5D was a better camera than the Alpha, but it did not have the Sony name and also the 10 MP figure which attracts customers (it was after all the first 10 MP camera in its class, albeit by a small margin). Notice that Canon have updated the Rebel to 10 MP when the 30D and 1D Mk II N are still 8 MP, this shows that in their mind the people who care most about pixel count are consumers buying the entry-level models (aside from pros who use top-end cameras like 1Ds MK II and who buy top-end glass to take advantage of all those pixels). Overwhelming market domination by big 2 is not only unhealthy but deterimental to us all, the consumers. I agree! I am glad to see Nikon doing so well now as well, for a while it was beginning to look as though Canon would become the ONLY significant player in the market. Doug __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
Thanks Ken, What is the time interval considered for market shares in the table published there? Since the K100D is there, it shouldn't be a long time. However, it is also possible that the K100D was only distributed during the latest part of that time span. In other words, the current market share of the K100D could be diluted by a longer time when it was not available. Dario - Original Message - From: K.Takeshita [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 1:00 AM Subject: Turbulent age Hi folks, It looks like the market in Japan is now tangling up. http://bcnranking.jp/flash/09-9669.html If you scroll down to the last graph, it shows the shift in market share. NavyCanon Yellow Nikon Red Sony Blue Pentax Purple Oly Since the entry by Sony and Pentax's rise, competition is coming close. Everybody is expecting that Canon's domination won't last. Nikon is somewhat fizzling now, but the D80 is not factored in yet. Note Canon is now well below 50% which they used to enjoy. This if of course just a snap shot and each maker has new models up in their sleeves which I am sure all will be known by Photokina, and alter this share situation. But it is interesting to see how the competition is becoming fierce. Note that Canon 5D has not been doing as well as initially expected. Good camera, perhaps, but their FF lens line is not digital optimized (optical formula and special coating etc) like their EF-S line which caused some image quality problems. No, I am not promoting a rosy picture for my favourite brand, but it appears that everybody has a decent chance, and the traditional market share pattern may no longer. Cheers, Ken -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
On 23/8/06, K.Takeshita, discombobulated, unleashed: Interesting to see what's going to happen toward Photokina when many new models should come out. 350D upgrade is already leaking but does not interest me. It appears to have some sort of (mild) dust reduction sys. 400D with self-cleaning sensor unit. http://www.canon.com.hk/Download.aspx?pressrelease_id=10143file_type=1 -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
On Wed, 23 Aug 2006, K.Takeshita wrote: Hi folks, It looks like the market in Japan is now tangling up. http://bcnranking.jp/flash/09-9669.html If you scroll down to the last graph, it shows the shift in market share. NavyCanon Yellow Nikon Red Sony Blue Pentax Purple Oly Thanks Ken. It would have been nice to know where Minolta was. Is that SLR-only? Kostas -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
I think they did put Minolta in Sony if it is DSLRs only. 2006/8/24, Kostas Kavoussanakis [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Wed, 23 Aug 2006, K.Takeshita wrote: Hi folks, It looks like the market in Japan is now tangling up. http://bcnranking.jp/flash/09-9669.html If you scroll down to the last graph, it shows the shift in market share. NavyCanon Yellow Nikon Red Sony Blue Pentax Purple Oly Thanks Ken. It would have been nice to know where Minolta was. Is that SLR-only? Kostas -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille -- *ist-D,Z1,SFXn,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Aaron Reynolds wrote: On Aug 24, 2006, at 6:13 AM, Kostas Kavoussanakis wrote: Thanks Ken. It would have been nice to know where Minolta was. Is that SLR-only? ...out of business? What, already in that period? Wasn't Sony alpha a quick succession to whatever the Minolta model was? I am trying to deduce if Sony really start from scratch and where they are now, compared to where Minolta left it. Kostas -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
On Aug 24, 2006, at 6:13 AM, Kostas Kavoussanakis wrote: Thanks Ken. It would have been nice to know where Minolta was. Is that SLR-only? ...out of business? -Aaron -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
On 24.08.2006, at 13:02 , Kostas Kavoussanakis wrote: What, already in that period? Wasn't Sony alpha a quick succession to whatever the Minolta model was? I am trying to deduce if Sony really start from scratch and where they are now, compared to where Minolta left it. Well, essentaily Alpha 100 is KM Dynax 5D with 10 MPix CCD and some other minor changes. Cheers, Sylwek -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
On 8/24/06 6:13 AM, Kostas Kavoussanakis, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Ken. It would have been nice to know where Minolta was. Is that SLR-only? Hi Kostas, Other folks already answered this while I was sleeping ;-). Cheers, Ken -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
On 8/24/06 7:58 AM, K.Takeshita, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 3. More females (new entry to DSLR) are buying Sony Alpha than males BTW, my take is that the overwhelming sales spike right after the launch of Alpha must have a lot to do with this. Alpha 100, considering the price point (with kit lens etc), is indeed an entry model. However, Sony brand should be really at work here. Those entry users (most likely the first purchase of DSLR) have had difficulty in deciding which DSLR to buy. They probably relied on the brand to play it safe. On top of that, Sony spent enormous amount of advertising dollars starting from teaser in their web site to the gigantic launch exhibition and parties starting from the fashionable district in Tokyo to other locales. This used to be Canon's domain :-). But it's good to see Pentax are doing so well and now firmly reckoned as an important factor in the market. Just a few (or several?) years ago, someone in New York (his name slipped my mind but was it not Bruce R or something? :-) was advocating the demise of Pentax and we were never going to see any Pentax DSLR and Pentax users were lunatic. Pentax came a long way since those days. Now their single model has reached 10% share. It's probably more now. With coming K10D and dedicated digital new lenses including USM DFAs, they should do well. At least that's what I hope. Overwhelming market domination by big 2 is not only unhealthy but deterimental to us all, the consumers. Cheers, Ken -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
On 8/24/06 4:14 AM, Dario Bonazza, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is the time interval considered for market shares in the table published there? Since the K100D is there, it shouldn't be a long time. However, it is also possible that the K100D was only distributed during the latest part of that time span. In other words, the current market share of the K100D could be diluted by a longer time when it was not available. Hi Dario, I think you are right. The table you are referring to (market share by each model) is for July. The article is giving following explanation on the spike of Sony Alpha. 1. It made a real splash considering that it was launched only on 7/21. However, the figure includes the prebooked quantity. 2. It also shows the usual spike right after the launch (common to most new model) 3. More females (new entry to DSLR) are buying Sony Alpha than males I am sure if the same tally was measured for the K100D including the prebooked quantity, it would have shown the similar spike. BTW, I believe I recently (last couple of weeks) saw information on the ranking of the sales quantity of all digicam, PS and DSLR, and all top 10 were PS except K100D was listed somewhere in the middle as the only DSLR. So, it should be doing quite well, and no wonder their factory has been very busy. Cheers, Ken -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
On 24/08/06, K.Takeshita [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 8/24/06 7:58 AM, K.Takeshita, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Overwhelming market domination by big 2 is not only unhealthy but deterimental to us all, the consumers. You'd think so but it doesn't seem to be doing the Canon consumers any harm? -- Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
Kostas Kavoussanakis wrote: On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Aaron Reynolds wrote: On Aug 24, 2006, at 6:13 AM, Kostas Kavoussanakis wrote: Thanks Ken. It would have been nice to know where Minolta was. Is that SLR-only? ...out of business? What, already in that period? Wasn't Sony alpha a quick succession to whatever the Minolta model was? I am trying to deduce if Sony really start from scratch and where they are now, compared to where Minolta left it. Kostas Nope, Minolta exited the market a while ago. There was a very distinct gap between Minolta's exit and Sony's DSLR. -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Re: Turbulent age
Fra: Digital Image Studio [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 24/08/06, K.Takeshita [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 8/24/06 7:58 AM, K.Takeshita, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Overwhelming market domination by big 2 is not only unhealthy but deterimental to us all, the consumers. You'd think so but it doesn't seem to be doing the Canon consumers any harm? Or maybe it does. Right now there are two Canon users who agree that they should have bought Nikon D200. They don't want larger sensors, but they do want better viewfinders. A third person did switch from 20D to D200 and claims that he would have chosen Pentax today, at least if K10D has the same finder as *istD. People are moving, and Canon looks oldfashioned. Only one wideangle for APS format, no improvements in the finder on the APS cameras, expensive FF cameras and IS lenses. No improved wideangles for FF. If K10D is good I think we will see some more movements in our direction. DagT -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
On 8/24/06 8:33 AM, Digital Image Studio, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You'd think so but it doesn't seem to be doing the Canon consumers any harm? Well, I do not know about them, but the healthier competitions keep those big 2 (particularly Canon :-) honest for sure, which is good for Canon users too. They have their own disgruntlement and are welcoming the competitions, as far as I can observe and peek into the dark side :-). Cheers, Ken -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
- Original Message - From: K.Takeshita [EMAIL PROTECTED] However, Sony brand should be really at work here. Interestuing to see how Sony will fare in the future. My understanding is that the Sony brand is quite strong in Japan and in the US. However, in the rest of the world Sony is just another anonymous consumer electronics manufacturer, most known for entry products like the walkman, with no more brand status (if any) than Panasonic, Samsung, Sanyo or anyone else. So I can't see they will sell much on the brand name alone. They have a far weaker brand recognition than Nikon and Canon and even Pentax. Pål -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
Yes and even then there's brand recognition in a specific market. I know trhat e.g. Pentax sells (or sold?) scanner at least in the US. I dunno anything about Pentax and scanners so I'd probably not even look at those. Same goes for Sony: nearly all my Hi-fi equipment is Sony (10-15 years old now). But buying DSLR with Sony on it is a different matter: Sony has a track record of being interested only by itself, but neither do standards (think memory cards) or consumer take part in their minds. Well this is my perception of course. I didn't like Minolta, now Sony I have even less reason to look at them. Sony is Sony, they will try in a couple months/years to switch to less standard products. -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille -- *ist-D,Z1,SFXn,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
- Original Message - From: DagT [EMAIL PROTECTED] People are moving, and Canon looks oldfashioned. I think that the brand perception with digital is moving away from the structure it had for film cameras. Camera are now consumer electronic products, an area where brand recognition traditionally has never been strong; price/performance will be more important along with distribution and sales outlets. What the pros are using, and particular the photo journalists, are less important now for brand recognition. In addition, many slr buyers come from a different background than previous slr owners; they are now not necessarily photo enthusiast nor do they necessarily know anything about brands for film slr's. Pål -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Re: Turbulent age
You'd think so but it doesn't seem to be doing the Canon consumers any harm? Or maybe it does. Right now there are two Canon users who agree that they should have bought Nikon D200. They don't want larger sensors, but they do want better viewfinders. A third person did switch from 20D to D200 and claims that he would have chosen Pentax today, at least if K10D has the same finder as *istD. People are moving, and Canon looks oldfashioned. Are you a politician by any chance? Canon has how many owners? And you can find 3 that are dissatisfied. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
On 8/24/06 9:13 AM, Pål Jensen, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interestuing to see how Sony will fare in the future. My understanding is that the Sony brand is quite strong in Japan and in the US. However, in the rest of the world Sony is just another anonymous consumer electronics manufacturer, most known for entry products like the walkman, with no more brand status (if any) than Panasonic, Samsung, Sanyo or anyone else. So I can't see they will sell much on the brand name alone. They have a far weaker brand recognition than Nikon and Canon and even Pentax. I personally am very indifferent to Sony. The only Sony equipment I have is an ancient Trinitron TV purchased in 1980 and still working in the basement, although the colour is shifting. Actually, I do not know much about them except I believe their forte is really in the commercial broadcasting equipment and TV cameras etc. Having said that, Sony is indeed one of the top 5 recognized brands in the world. My point was that, when people, particularly the real entry market (like the first DSLR buyers), are in doubt, it is very conceivable that their final deciding factor might be the brand. Those people who are buying Alpha100 (particularly females. No sexist remark :-) probably do not know much about the difference between Canon/Nikon/Pentax or Oly etc, but they've grown up with Sony's consumer products. Once you passed that stage (into prosumers?), then all sorts of factors would be on the table and you do not go by the brand alone. Personally, I think Alpha 100 is ugly, straight copy of the former Minolta line and said to have a fairly poor performance in high ISO noise level. Whether Sony is really serious in this market should show in the future how good a product they might produce. But Sony is in somewhat of a turmoil now and I am not quite sure how serious they are in this market. It might be a quick money grab while they can. They may not even have expected to get into this market this way. K/M ended up forcing Sony's hand perhaps rather unexpectedly. There are enough anti-Sony people in Japan too. But they are a good company and their brand does give some confidence in some market. Cheers, Ken -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
On Aug 24, 2006, at 9:24 AM, Pål Jensen wrote: What the pros are using, and particular the photo journalists, are less important now for brand recognition I had two different sports photographers ask me on Tuesday what I knew about the new Pentax bodies after seeing that I was shooting with Pentax. The game was actually quite eventful, so we didn't get a lot of time to chat about it. But I find it interesting that the question even came up. -Aaron -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
- Original Message - From: Pål Jensen Subject: Re: Turbulent age Interestuing to see how Sony will fare in the future. My understanding is that the Sony brand is quite strong in Japan and in the US. However, in the rest of the world Sony is just another anonymous consumer electronics manufacturer, most known for entry products like the walkman, with no more brand status (if any) than Panasonic, Samsung, Sanyo or anyone else. So I can't see they will sell much on the brand name alone. They have a far weaker brand recognition than Nikon and Canon and even Pentax. For me, Sony's brand recognition is one of putting spyware onto musinc CD's. I don't find the brand especially inviting. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Turbulent age
What the pros are using, and particular the photo journalists, are less important now for brand recognition I had two different sports photographers ask me on Tuesday what I knew about the new Pentax bodies after seeing that I was shooting with Pentax. The game was actually quite eventful, so we didn't get a lot of time to chat about it. But I find it interesting that the question even came up. Photojournalists that I know or have spoken to are always interested in who's using what and why. It's important for them to have an edge on the competition, so if they see someone using something unconventional they want to know what benefit it is giving them. Over recent years the range of different types of camera that photojournalists use seems to me to have expanded significantly. I know one guy who shot 4x5 in a war zone. A few of them are using square format, or (as Shel posted some time ago) 'consumer' digicams. They want their work to look different and to stand out from the herd. Regards, Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Turbulent age
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Bob W wrote: What the pros are using, and particular the photo journalists, are less important now for brand recognition I had two different sports photographers ask me on Tuesday what I knew about the new Pentax bodies after seeing that I was shooting with Pentax. Photojournalists that I know or have spoken to are always interested in who's using what and why. It's important for them to have an edge on the competition, so if they see someone using something unconventional they want to know what benefit it is giving them. Over recent years the range of different types of camera that photojournalists use seems to me to have expanded significantly. I know one guy who shot 4x5 in a war zone. A few of them are using square format, or (as Shel posted some time ago) 'consumer' digicams. They want their work to look different and to stand out from the herd. Is it just me or are these two answers missing Paal's initial remark? Kostas -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
On Aug 24, 2006, at 10:37 AM, Bob W wrote: Photojournalists that I know or have spoken to are always interested in who's using what and why. It's important for them to have an edge on the competition, so if they see someone using something unconventional they want to know what benefit it is giving them. True, though these guys all had paper-issued gear, so they can't really make those kinds of purchasing decisions. -Aaron -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
I'd like to point out that these figures are only for Japan and do not necessarially reflect the worldwide picture. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: K.Takeshita [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Turbulent age Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 08:14:10 -0400 On 8/24/06 7:58 AM, K.Takeshita, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 3. More females (new entry to DSLR) are buying Sony Alpha than males BTW, my take is that the overwhelming sales spike right after the launch of Alpha must have a lot to do with this. Alpha 100, considering the price point (with kit lens etc), is indeed an entry model. However, Sony brand should be really at work here. Those entry users (most likely the first purchase of DSLR) have had difficulty in deciding which DSLR to buy. They probably relied on the brand to play it safe. On top of that, Sony spent enormous amount of advertising dollars starting from teaser in their web site to the gigantic launch exhibition and parties starting from the fashionable district in Tokyo to other locales. This used to be Canon's domain :-). But it's good to see Pentax are doing so well and now firmly reckoned as an important factor in the market. Just a few (or several?) years ago, someone in New York (his name slipped my mind but was it not Bruce R or something? :-) was advocating the demise of Pentax and we were never going to see any Pentax DSLR and Pentax users were lunatic. Pentax came a long way since those days. Now their single model has reached 10% share. It's probably more now. With coming K10D and dedicated digital new lenses including USM DFAs, they should do well. At least that's what I hope. Overwhelming market domination by big 2 is not only unhealthy but deterimental to us all, the consumers. Cheers, Ken -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Turbulent age
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kostas Kavoussanakis Sent: 24 August 2006 16:26 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: RE: Turbulent age On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Bob W wrote: What the pros are using, and particular the photo journalists, are less important now for brand recognition I had two different sports photographers ask me on Tuesday what I knew about the new Pentax bodies after seeing that I was shooting with Pentax. Photojournalists that I know or have spoken to are always interested in who's using what and why. It's important for them to have an edge on the competition, so if they see someone using something unconventional they want to know what benefit it is giving them. Over recent years the range of different types of camera that photojournalists use seems to me to have expanded significantly. I know one guy who shot 4x5 in a war zone. A few of them are using square format, or (as Shel posted some time ago) 'consumer' digicams. They want their work to look different and to stand out from the herd. Is it just me or are these two answers missing Paal's initial remark? The first answer does not address the point of Pal's remark. My answer addresses the comment about sports photographers. Why do you ask? Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Turbulent age
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Aaron Reynolds Sent: 24 August 2006 16:10 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Turbulent age On Aug 24, 2006, at 10:37 AM, Bob W wrote: Photojournalists that I know or have spoken to are always interested in who's using what and why. It's important for them to have an edge on the competition, so if they see someone using something unconventional they want to know what benefit it is giving them. True, though these guys all had paper-issued gear, so they can't really make those kinds of purchasing decisions. The ones I know, and those I am referring to, are freelancers and agency photographers who use their own gear. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Turbulent age
My reply wasn't directly addressing it, just relating a recent anecdote. -Aaron -- http://aaronreynolds.ca http://battersbox.ca http://hardballtimes.com -Original Message- From: Kostas Kavoussanakis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subj: RE: Turbulent age Date: Thu 2006 Aug 24 11:26 am Size: 1K To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Bob W wrote: What the pros are using, and particular the photo journalists, are less important now for brand recognition I had two different sports photographers ask me on Tuesday what I knew about the new Pentax bodies after seeing that I was shooting with Pentax. Photojournalists that I know or have spoken to are always interested in who's using what and why. It's important for them to have an edge on the competition, so if they see someone using something unconventional they want to know what benefit it is giving them. Over recent years the range of different types of camera that photojournalists use seems to me to have expanded significantly. I know one guy who shot 4x5 in a war zone. A few of them are using square format, or (as Shel posted some time ago) 'consumer' digicams. They want their work to look different and to stand out from the herd. Is it just me or are these two answers missing Paal's initial remark? Kostas -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
- Original Message - From: Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'd like to point out that these figures are only for Japan and do not necessarially reflect the worldwide picture. Sure, but the japanese have a tendency of pioneering world-wide trends when it comes to photo equipment. Pål -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
Not debating that. :-) Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: Pål Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Turbulent age Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 17:45:43 +0200 - Original Message - From: Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'd like to point out that these figures are only for Japan and do not necessarially reflect the worldwide picture. Sure, but the japanese have a tendency of pioneering world-wide trends when it comes to photo equipment. Pål -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
Sure, but the japanese have a tendency of pioneering world-wide trends when it comes to photo equipment. Pål BTW, I failed to mention that I enjoyed many of your photos in the recent gallery you displayed. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
Minolta is folded into Sony, so that's probably where it is. Kostas Kavoussanakis wrote: On Wed, 23 Aug 2006, K.Takeshita wrote: Hi folks, It looks like the market in Japan is now tangling up. http://bcnranking.jp/flash/09-9669.html If you scroll down to the last graph, it shows the shift in market share. NavyCanon Yellow Nikon Red Sony Blue Pentax Purple Oly Thanks Ken. It would have been nice to know where Minolta was. Is that SLR-only? Kostas -- -- Its easy to understand why the cat has eclipsed the dog as modern America's favorite pet. People like pets to possess the same qualities they do. Cats are irresponsible and recognize no authority, yet are completely dependent on others for their material needs. Cats cannot be made to do anything useful. Cats are mean for the fun of it P. J. O'Rourke -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
Den 24. aug. 2006 kl. 15.58 skrev Bob W: You'd think so but it doesn't seem to be doing the Canon consumers any harm? Or maybe it does. Right now there are two Canon users who agree that they should have bought Nikon D200. They don't want larger sensors, but they do want better viewfinders. A third person did switch from 20D to D200 and claims that he would have chosen Pentax today, at least if K10D has the same finder as *istD. People are moving, and Canon looks oldfashioned. Are you a politician by any chance? Canon has how many owners? And you can find 3 that are dissatisfied. Of course I´m aware of the value of anecdotal evidence (and I´m not a politician). It was just a small illustration of reactions I´ve seen lately, and which I have not seen before. The statement about being old-fashioned was on my behalf. They seem to cling to old solutions. DagT http://dag.foto.no Beware of internet links. You never know what is on the other side. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
On 24/8/06, Digital Image Studio, discombobulated, unleashed: On 8/24/06 7:58 AM, K.Takeshita, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Overwhelming market domination by big 2 is not only unhealthy but deterimental to us all, the consumers. You'd think so but it doesn't seem to be doing the Canon consumers any harm? Interesting point. When I wanted to buy a DSLR and before Pentax had one out, I had to decide between Canon and Nikon. I very nearly went for Nikon - for the simple reason that I will always try and support the underdog (keep in mind there was no offering from Pentax at all, so it was not a case of Pentax being the underdog at that time, it was a case of Pentax not playing the game). The thing that swayed me above all was an upgrade path to a full frame sensor, and so I went with Canon. If Nikon had had a full frame sensor at that point, I would have bought Nikon, no problem. Not that I would have been able to afford a full-frame camera at that point, but I reasoned that a few years down the road, the tech would have improved and the price would have dropped. Now, a few years later, and I would hope to pick up a full frame body in a year or so. Whenever I see these pics, it really goes gets under my skin. http://www.bdimitrov.de/kmp/bodies/prototypes/MZ-D.html C'est la vie, uh? -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
With full K mount lens compatibility... sigh Cotty wrote: On 24/8/06, Digital Image Studio, discombobulated, unleashed: On 8/24/06 7:58 AM, K.Takeshita, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Overwhelming market domination by big 2 is not only unhealthy but deterimental to us all, the consumers. You'd think so but it doesn't seem to be doing the Canon consumers any harm? Interesting point. When I wanted to buy a DSLR and before Pentax had one out, I had to decide between Canon and Nikon. I very nearly went for Nikon - for the simple reason that I will always try and support the underdog (keep in mind there was no offering from Pentax at all, so it was not a case of Pentax being the underdog at that time, it was a case of Pentax not playing the game). The thing that swayed me above all was an upgrade path to a full frame sensor, and so I went with Canon. If Nikon had had a full frame sensor at that point, I would have bought Nikon, no problem. Not that I would have been able to afford a full-frame camera at that point, but I reasoned that a few years down the road, the tech would have improved and the price would have dropped. Now, a few years later, and I would hope to pick up a full frame body in a year or so. Whenever I see these pics, it really goes gets under my skin. http://www.bdimitrov.de/kmp/bodies/prototypes/MZ-D.html C'est la vie, uh? -- -- Its easy to understand why the cat has eclipsed the dog as modern America's favorite pet. People like pets to possess the same qualities they do. Cats are irresponsible and recognize no authority, yet are completely dependent on others for their material needs. Cats cannot be made to do anything useful. Cats are mean for the fun of it P. J. O'Rourke -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
I don't think they believed the list so much as their own marketing division. The problem was more that Canon and Kodak were ready to release or had released higher resolution full frame offerings for less than Pentax could sell the MZ-D for and still have some hope of recouping RD and manufacturing costs. You can only afford to market a loss leader if you something to offset the loses against. graywolf wrote: Of course, Pentax believed the list when everyone said no one would pay that much for a camera. Strangely Canon, Nikon, and Kodak sold a lot of cameras in that price range. Oh well. -- -- Its easy to understand why the cat has eclipsed the dog as modern America's favorite pet. People like pets to possess the same qualities they do. Cats are irresponsible and recognize no authority, yet are completely dependent on others for their material needs. Cats cannot be made to do anything useful. Cats are mean for the fun of it P. J. O'Rourke -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
If you ask me they should have just waited around and stuck an APS-C sensor in it and called it good. They would still have produced a 6MP DSLR, sure maybe a year late. Changing specs on a product before bringing it to market would not have had the same stigma as never producing it. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: Aaron Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Turbulent age Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 16:02:31 -0400 On Aug 24, 2006, at 3:12 PM, Cotty wrote: http://www.bdimitrov.de/kmp/bodies/prototypes/MZ-D.html C'est la vie, uh? Yeah, but did you ever see the pictures it took? It took balls, but killing that thing off was probably the smartest move they made in a decade. -Aaron -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
On Aug 24, 2006, at 3:12 PM, Cotty wrote: http://www.bdimitrov.de/kmp/bodies/prototypes/MZ-D.html C'est la vie, uh? Yeah, but did you ever see the pictures it took? It took balls, but killing that thing off was probably the smartest move they made in a decade. -Aaron -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
Kind of like Disney, heh? -- graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Pål Jensen Subject: Re: Turbulent age Interestuing to see how Sony will fare in the future. My understanding is that the Sony brand is quite strong in Japan and in the US. However, in the rest of the world Sony is just another anonymous consumer electronics manufacturer, most known for entry products like the walkman, with no more brand status (if any) than Panasonic, Samsung, Sanyo or anyone else. So I can't see they will sell much on the brand name alone. They have a far weaker brand recognition than Nikon and Canon and even Pentax. For me, Sony's brand recognition is one of putting spyware onto musinc CD's. I don't find the brand especially inviting. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
Of course, Pentax believed the list when everyone said no one would pay that much for a camera. Strangely Canon, Nikon, and Kodak sold a lot of cameras in that price range. Oh well. -- graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- Cotty wrote: On 24/8/06, Digital Image Studio, discombobulated, unleashed: On 8/24/06 7:58 AM, K.Takeshita, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Overwhelming market domination by big 2 is not only unhealthy but deterimental to us all, the consumers. You'd think so but it doesn't seem to be doing the Canon consumers any harm? Interesting point. When I wanted to buy a DSLR and before Pentax had one out, I had to decide between Canon and Nikon. I very nearly went for Nikon - for the simple reason that I will always try and support the underdog (keep in mind there was no offering from Pentax at all, so it was not a case of Pentax being the underdog at that time, it was a case of Pentax not playing the game). The thing that swayed me above all was an upgrade path to a full frame sensor, and so I went with Canon. If Nikon had had a full frame sensor at that point, I would have bought Nikon, no problem. Not that I would have been able to afford a full-frame camera at that point, but I reasoned that a few years down the road, the tech would have improved and the price would have dropped. Now, a few years later, and I would hope to pick up a full frame body in a year or so. Whenever I see these pics, it really goes gets under my skin. http://www.bdimitrov.de/kmp/bodies/prototypes/MZ-D.html C'est la vie, uh? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 21:17:41 +0100, Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you ask me they should have just waited around and stuck an APS-C sensor in it and called it good. They would still have produced a 6MP DSLR, sure maybe a year late. Changing specs on a product before bringing it to market would not have had the same stigma as never producing it. For how many more years are you going to keep coming back to this? Is there no subject under the sun of more interest? John Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: Aaron Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Turbulent age Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 16:02:31 -0400 On Aug 24, 2006, at 3:12 PM, Cotty wrote: http://www.bdimitrov.de/kmp/bodies/prototypes/MZ-D.html C'est la vie, uh? Yeah, but did you ever see the pictures it took? It took balls, but killing that thing off was probably the smartest move they made in a decade. -Aaron -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
I've almost never mentioned the MZ-D. It was your countryman that brought it up. Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: John Forbes [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Turbulent age Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 21:53:31 +0100 On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 21:17:41 +0100, Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you ask me they should have just waited around and stuck an APS-C sensor in it and called it good. They would still have produced a 6MP DSLR, sure maybe a year late. Changing specs on a product before bringing it to market would not have had the same stigma as never producing it. For how many more years are you going to keep coming back to this? Is there no subject under the sun of more interest? John Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: Aaron Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Turbulent age Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 16:02:31 -0400 On Aug 24, 2006, at 3:12 PM, Cotty wrote: http://www.bdimitrov.de/kmp/bodies/prototypes/MZ-D.html C'est la vie, uh? Yeah, but did you ever see the pictures it took? It took balls, but killing that thing off was probably the smartest move they made in a decade. -Aaron -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Turbulent age
Hi folks, It looks like the market in Japan is now tangling up. http://bcnranking.jp/flash/09-9669.html If you scroll down to the last graph, it shows the shift in market share. NavyCanon Yellow Nikon Red Sony Blue Pentax Purple Oly Since the entry by Sony and Pentax's rise, competition is coming close. Everybody is expecting that Canon's domination won't last. Nikon is somewhat fizzling now, but the D80 is not factored in yet. Note Canon is now well below 50% which they used to enjoy. This if of course just a snap shot and each maker has new models up in their sleeves which I am sure all will be known by Photokina, and alter this share situation. But it is interesting to see how the competition is becoming fierce. Note that Canon 5D has not been doing as well as initially expected. Good camera, perhaps, but their FF lens line is not digital optimized (optical formula and special coating etc) like their EF-S line which caused some image quality problems. No, I am not promoting a rosy picture for my favourite brand, but it appears that everybody has a decent chance, and the traditional market share pattern may no longer. Cheers, Ken -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Turbulent age
Interesting. I'm not sure how you link the last graph to the 5D. I would expect it's overall sales to be lower since it costs 3X the KISS/350D. And doesn't the graph before the last indicate that sales of both the 5D and the 350D are on the rise while sales of the Pentax K100D appear to have sharply peaked and are in this snapshot declining? Tom C. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. From: K.Takeshita [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Turbulent age Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 19:00:35 -0400 Hi folks, It looks like the market in Japan is now tangling up. http://bcnranking.jp/flash/09-9669.html If you scroll down to the last graph, it shows the shift in market share. NavyCanon Yellow Nikon Red Sony Blue Pentax Purple Oly Since the entry by Sony and Pentax's rise, competition is coming close. Everybody is expecting that Canon's domination won't last. Nikon is somewhat fizzling now, but the D80 is not factored in yet. Note Canon is now well below 50% which they used to enjoy. This if of course just a snap shot and each maker has new models up in their sleeves which I am sure all will be known by Photokina, and alter this share situation. But it is interesting to see how the competition is becoming fierce. Note that Canon 5D has not been doing as well as initially expected. Good camera, perhaps, but their FF lens line is not digital optimized (optical formula and special coating etc) like their EF-S line which caused some image quality problems. No, I am not promoting a rosy picture for my favourite brand, but it appears that everybody has a decent chance, and the traditional market share pattern may no longer. Cheers, Ken -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
On 8/23/06 7:18 PM, Tom C, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure how you link the last graph to the 5D. Oh, I was not linking 5D to this info. Toward the end of the post, I just remember that there was an article about sales of K100D exceeded 5D, and 5D was not as popular as initially thought mainly due to lens issue. Sharp increase of 5D and 350D is due to heavy discount Canon just started. Probably due to model change. I understand that the sale of K100D kept increasing. Talking about lens issue, I believe Pentax have been quietly overhauling their lens line to conform to the digital requirement. DFA equivalent of former FA telephoto (with USM) should come out. No wonder FA suddenly disappeared. I do not think Canon is quite ready yet for FF model like 5D. Nice camera but can use only very selected L lenses to get the max performance from it. Interesting to see what's going to happen toward Photokina when many new models should come out. 350D upgrade is already leaking but does not interest me. It appears to have some sort of (mild) dust reduction sys. Cheers, Ken -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Turbulent age
--- K.Takeshita [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It looks like the market in Japan is now tangling up. http://bcnranking.jp/flash/09-9669.html This is very interesting... Canon has obviously had a VERY precipitous drop in sales. That said, they are supposedly set to introduce a 10 MP Rebel at Photokina. This is bound to be a big seller. I do believe that the Nikon D70/D70s remains the best-selling digital SLR of all time (as well as the best -selling SLR - film OR digital - in Nikon history) and I can easily see the D80 taking up that mantle. Like the D70 it offers exceptional value for money. But the upcoming K10D promises to be even better for the same price. Let's just hope Pentax can convince the public of it! New Doug __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
