Re: When did equipment get so cheap?
I think Dvorak was writing for people who had to buy pre-assembled systems for their companies. At the time, it was mainly Compaq, HP & IBM. Acer & the other Taiwanese manufacturers hadn't cracked the American corporate market yet; Michael Dell was still assembling computers in his dorm room and "Gateway Computers" was still Gateway2000. I've been assembling my own since at least 1990. The most expensive build I've ever done is the latest one I built for Photoshop in 2012. Components for that one came in right around $1200. I bought the motherboard that would take the most memory I could get at the time (32GB) & fit a Sandy Bridge Core i7-2xxxK CPU. BlueRay burner with Lightscribe. Windoze 7 64-bit. I already had all the hard-disk drives, so they don't count in the cost. I just took a quick look at Dell, HP & Lenovo to see what I could get as a comparable custom build. Their custom configurations that are almost as good as what I built came in at about $2000, but none of them offer a BlueRay burner. Dell doesn't even offer 32GB max RAM (that I could find). Roll your own is definitely the way to go. On 4/6/2014 11:26 AM, P.J. Alling wrote: Since my first PC compatible, I've been building, well assembling my own, desktops, and I'm pretty sure that with judicious reuse of components, none of my computers have ever cost $2500 initially. The one I want to build now might come close. On 2/12/2014 2:01 PM, Stanley Halpin wrote: I think my first Mac (Mac+, 1987-88) was about $2250. Every one since then has been in the $1800-2200 range. stan On Feb 12, 2014, at 1:28 PM, John wrote: On 2/12/2014 7:46 AM, CollinB wrote: Yeah, that's it. The same sort of thing happened with PC's. Remember what the first XT's cost? Alan C When I was selling Apple ][ plus computers, people would spend $2500+ on the system to run a $200 VisiCalc program. I remember John Dvorak writing in PC magazine that what Moore's Law really meant was that while computing power would double every 18 months or so, the computer you'd *want* would always cost $2500. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: When did equipment get so cheap?
Our first computer that was purchased (not made from parts acquired from government surplus), was a Gateway 2000, 486, around 1992ish. That was back when they were cool for their ads in computer magazines and the towers were 3 feet tall. Pretty sure that it was around $3000. My first laptop, I bought in '96, cost $3000. The laptop i bought last year, $500. On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 11:26 AM, P.J. Alling wrote: > Since my first PC compatible, I've been building, well assembling my own, > desktops, and I'm pretty sure that with judicious reuse of components, none > of my computers have ever cost $2500 initially. The one I want to build now > might come close. > > > On 2/12/2014 2:01 PM, Stanley Halpin wrote: >> >> I think my first Mac (Mac+, 1987-88) was about $2250. Every one since then >> has been in the $1800-2200 range. >> >> stan >> >> On Feb 12, 2014, at 1:28 PM, John wrote: >> >>> On 2/12/2014 7:46 AM, CollinB wrote: > > Yeah, that's it. The same sort of thing happened with PC's. Remember > what > the first XT's cost? > > Alan C When I was selling Apple ][ plus computers, people would spend $2500+ on the system to run a $200 VisiCalc program. >>> I remember John Dvorak writing in PC magazine that what Moore's Law >>> really meant was that while computing power would double every 18 months >>> or so, the computer you'd *want* would always cost $2500. >>> >>> -- >>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> PDML@pdml.net >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >>> follow the directions. >> >> > > > -- > A newspaper is a device for making the ignorant more ignorant, and the > crazy, crazier. > > - H.L.Mencken > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. -- David Parsons Photography http://www.davidparsonsphoto.com Aloha Photographer Photoblog http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: When did equipment get so cheap?
Since my first PC compatible, I've been building, well assembling my own, desktops, and I'm pretty sure that with judicious reuse of components, none of my computers have ever cost $2500 initially. The one I want to build now might come close. On 2/12/2014 2:01 PM, Stanley Halpin wrote: I think my first Mac (Mac+, 1987-88) was about $2250. Every one since then has been in the $1800-2200 range. stan On Feb 12, 2014, at 1:28 PM, John wrote: On 2/12/2014 7:46 AM, CollinB wrote: Yeah, that's it. The same sort of thing happened with PC's. Remember what the first XT's cost? Alan C When I was selling Apple ][ plus computers, people would spend $2500+ on the system to run a $200 VisiCalc program. I remember John Dvorak writing in PC magazine that what Moore's Law really meant was that while computing power would double every 18 months or so, the computer you'd *want* would always cost $2500. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- A newspaper is a device for making the ignorant more ignorant, and the crazy, crazier. - H.L.Mencken -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: When did equipment get so cheap?
On 2/12/2014 7:46 AM, CollinB wrote: Yeah, that's it. The same sort of thing happened with PC's. Remember what the first XT's cost? Alan C When I was selling Apple ][ plus computers, people would spend $2500+ on the system to run a $200 VisiCalc program. and as anyone who's cross checked a spreadsheet will tell you it was well worth it. -- A newspaper is a device for making the ignorant more ignorant, and the crazy, crazier. - H.L.Mencken -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: When did equipment get so cheap?
In those days the Australian $ was worth about 55c US. No VAT or GST, and I have no idea whether there was an import duty on computers - probably was, but effect unknown. For the camera, the A$ was probably about 66c US by then, and 10% GST. John Coyle Brisbane, Australia -Original Message- From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of John Sent: Friday, 14 February 2014 12:53 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: When did equipment get so cheap? What were the exchange rates back then and how much of that cost was VAT or other import duties? On 2/13/2014 2:42 AM, John Coyle wrote: > Very first computer I ever specified and bought for my employer was an > HP86A, green screen, 2 * 5.25 floppies, plug-in 64k memory module, Epson > M1500 printer and an HP plotter - bargain at $13,500! > My *istD I bought for a heavily discounted $1900 direct from the importer. > > > John Coyle > Brisbane, Australia > > > > -Original Message- > From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of CollinB > Sent: Wednesday, 12 February 2014 10:47 PM > To: pdml@pdml.net > Subject: Re: When did equipment get so cheap? > >> Yeah, that's it. The same sort of thing happened with PC's. Remember >> what the first XT's cost? >> >> Alan C > > When I was selling Apple ][ plus computers, people would spend $2500+ > on the system to run a $200 VisiCalc program. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: When did equipment get so cheap?
>On 2/12/2014 7:46 AM, CollinB wrote: >>> Yeah, that's it. The same sort of thing happened with PC's. Remember what >>> the first XT's cost? >>> >>> Alan C >> >> When I was selling Apple ][ plus computers, people would spend $2500+ on the >> system to run a $200 VisiCalc program. >> >John > >I remember John Dvorak writing in PC magazine that what Moore's Law >really meant was that while computing power would double every 18 months >or so, the computer you'd *want* would always cost $2500. > One other thing: Retail price points. A retailer will keep whatever price point is necessary to make a living. That's why kit packages exist -- combined margin. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: When did equipment get so cheap?
On 2/13/2014 12:50 PM, Steve Cottrell wrote: On 13/2/14, John, discombobulated, unleashed: What were the exchange rates back then When I was in my early teens in California, my grandmother back in England would send mea 1 pound note in my birthday card. U gave it to my dad, and he gave me nearly 5 bucks for it !! The pound sterling was worth something back when there was still a British Empire. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: When did equipment get so cheap?
On 13/2/14, John, discombobulated, unleashed: >What were the exchange rates back then When I was in my early teens in California, my grandmother back in England would send mea 1 pound note in my birthday card. U gave it to my dad, and he gave me nearly 5 bucks for it !! -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__Broadcast, Corporate, || (O) |Web Video Production -- _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: When did equipment get so cheap?
I first encountered computers when I was a physics major at Dartmouth College. My math prof was John Kemeny, then chairman of the Math Department, and later president of the college: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_G._Kemeny Kemeny wanted some of the physics majors to work with him on a computer language he was developing -- which turned out to be the original form of BASIC, also know as Dartmouth BASIC. We went to the computer building and did a few of the exercises, but the whole process of punch cards and print outs took took much time and patience. Besides, we had our slide rules, so why would we want to use computers? Kemeny and BASIC went on to success and fame, Dartmouth got some money from the copyright to BASIC for years, and I switched from Physics to International relations and eventually to law school, and that has made all the difference. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 11:02 AM, Bruce Walker wrote: > The first computer I ever used was at the Canadian National Exhibition > when I was about ten. I gave the lady fifty cents and after a minute I > was handed five punch cards with my fortune printed on them. I became > very suspicious of this almost immediately and I've never really > trusted computers since then. > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:03 AM, John wrote: >> Thinking back on it, I don't even know what the first computer I used was. >> >> We handed in our punch cards at the window & came back the next day to get a >> printout so we could see if the program had run. >> >> Besides that, the only thing I remember is the telephone bill came on an IBM >> punch card that had to be returned with payment, and those cards fit into >> the card punch machine so I could write rude messages to the phone company >> before sending them back. >> >> The first computer I ever owned was a 16Mhz Emerson PC-AT clone with a 40meg >> harddrive & 5-14" floppy drive DOS 3.3 and a modem. I don't remember now, >> but it may have even had a CGA display. >> >> >> On 2/13/2014 3:10 AM, J.C. O'Connell wrote: >>> >>> The first computer I ever used was a HP85, built in monitor, tape drive, >>> and BASIC. >>> I forget what these cost, but we used a quite a few of these as >>> instrument controllers >>> at work in both engineering and production. >>> >>> >>> On 2/13/2014 2:42 AM, John Coyle wrote: >>>> >>>> Very first computer I ever specified and bought for my employer was an >>>> HP86A, green screen, 2 * 5.25 >>>> floppies, plug-in 64k memory module, Epson M1500 printer and an HP >>>> plotter - bargain at $13,500! >>>> My *istD I bought for a heavily discounted $1900 direct from the >>>> importer. >>>> >>>> >>>> John Coyle >>>> Brisbane, Australia >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -Original Message- >>>> From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of CollinB >>>> Sent: Wednesday, 12 February 2014 10:47 PM >>>> To: pdml@pdml.net >>>> Subject: Re: When did equipment get so cheap? >>>> >>>>> Yeah, that's it. The same sort of thing happened with PC's. Remember >>>>> what the first XT's cost? >>>>> >>>>> Alan C >>>> >>>> When I was selling Apple ][ plus computers, people would spend $2500+ >>>> on the system to run a $200 >>>> VisiCalc program. >> >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >> follow the directions. > > > > -- > -bmw > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: When did equipment get so cheap?
I first encountered computers when I was a physics major at Dartmouth College. My math prof was John Kemeny, then chairman of the Math Department, and later president of the college: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_G._Kemeny Kemeny wanted some of the physics majors to work with him on a computer language he was developing -- which turned out to be the original form of BASIC, also know as Dartmouth BASIC. We went to the computer building and did a few of the exercises, but the whole process of punch cards and print outs took took much time and patience. Besides, we had our slide rules, so why would we want to use computers? Kemeny and BASIC went on to success and fame, Dartmouth got some money from the copyright to BASIC for years, and I switched from Physics to International relations and eventually to law school, and that has made all the difference. Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 11:02 AM, Bruce Walker wrote: > The first computer I ever used was at the Canadian National Exhibition > when I was about ten. I gave the lady fifty cents and after a minute I > was handed five punch cards with my fortune printed on them. I became > very suspicious of this almost immediately and I've never really > trusted computers since then. > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:03 AM, John wrote: >> Thinking back on it, I don't even know what the first computer I used was. >> >> We handed in our punch cards at the window & came back the next day to get a >> printout so we could see if the program had run. >> >> Besides that, the only thing I remember is the telephone bill came on an IBM >> punch card that had to be returned with payment, and those cards fit into >> the card punch machine so I could write rude messages to the phone company >> before sending them back. >> >> The first computer I ever owned was a 16Mhz Emerson PC-AT clone with a 40meg >> harddrive & 5-14" floppy drive DOS 3.3 and a modem. I don't remember now, >> but it may have even had a CGA display. >> >> >> On 2/13/2014 3:10 AM, J.C. O'Connell wrote: >>> >>> The first computer I ever used was a HP85, built in monitor, tape drive, >>> and BASIC. >>> I forget what these cost, but we used a quite a few of these as >>> instrument controllers >>> at work in both engineering and production. >>> >>> >>> On 2/13/2014 2:42 AM, John Coyle wrote: >>>> >>>> Very first computer I ever specified and bought for my employer was an >>>> HP86A, green screen, 2 * 5.25 >>>> floppies, plug-in 64k memory module, Epson M1500 printer and an HP >>>> plotter - bargain at $13,500! >>>> My *istD I bought for a heavily discounted $1900 direct from the >>>> importer. >>>> >>>> >>>> John Coyle >>>> Brisbane, Australia >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -Original Message- >>>> From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of CollinB >>>> Sent: Wednesday, 12 February 2014 10:47 PM >>>> To: pdml@pdml.net >>>> Subject: Re: When did equipment get so cheap? >>>> >>>>> Yeah, that's it. The same sort of thing happened with PC's. Remember >>>>> what the first XT's cost? >>>>> >>>>> Alan C >>>> >>>> When I was selling Apple ][ plus computers, people would spend $2500+ >>>> on the system to run a $200 >>>> VisiCalc program. >> >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >> follow the directions. > > > > -- > -bmw > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: When did equipment get so cheap?
The first computer I ever used was at the Canadian National Exhibition when I was about ten. I gave the lady fifty cents and after a minute I was handed five punch cards with my fortune printed on them. I became very suspicious of this almost immediately and I've never really trusted computers since then. On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:03 AM, John wrote: > Thinking back on it, I don't even know what the first computer I used was. > > We handed in our punch cards at the window & came back the next day to get a > printout so we could see if the program had run. > > Besides that, the only thing I remember is the telephone bill came on an IBM > punch card that had to be returned with payment, and those cards fit into > the card punch machine so I could write rude messages to the phone company > before sending them back. > > The first computer I ever owned was a 16Mhz Emerson PC-AT clone with a 40meg > harddrive & 5-14" floppy drive DOS 3.3 and a modem. I don't remember now, > but it may have even had a CGA display. > > > On 2/13/2014 3:10 AM, J.C. O'Connell wrote: >> >> The first computer I ever used was a HP85, built in monitor, tape drive, >> and BASIC. >> I forget what these cost, but we used a quite a few of these as >> instrument controllers >> at work in both engineering and production. >> >> >> On 2/13/2014 2:42 AM, John Coyle wrote: >>> >>> Very first computer I ever specified and bought for my employer was an >>> HP86A, green screen, 2 * 5.25 >>> floppies, plug-in 64k memory module, Epson M1500 printer and an HP >>> plotter - bargain at $13,500! >>> My *istD I bought for a heavily discounted $1900 direct from the >>> importer. >>> >>> >>> John Coyle >>> Brisbane, Australia >>> >>> >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of CollinB >>> Sent: Wednesday, 12 February 2014 10:47 PM >>> To: pdml@pdml.net >>> Subject: Re: When did equipment get so cheap? >>> >>>> Yeah, that's it. The same sort of thing happened with PC's. Remember >>>> what the first XT's cost? >>>> >>>> Alan C >>> >>> When I was selling Apple ][ plus computers, people would spend $2500+ >>> on the system to run a $200 >>> VisiCalc program. > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: When did equipment get so cheap?
Thinking back on it, I don't even know what the first computer I used was. We handed in our punch cards at the window & came back the next day to get a printout so we could see if the program had run. Besides that, the only thing I remember is the telephone bill came on an IBM punch card that had to be returned with payment, and those cards fit into the card punch machine so I could write rude messages to the phone company before sending them back. The first computer I ever owned was a 16Mhz Emerson PC-AT clone with a 40meg harddrive & 5-14" floppy drive DOS 3.3 and a modem. I don't remember now, but it may have even had a CGA display. On 2/13/2014 3:10 AM, J.C. O'Connell wrote: The first computer I ever used was a HP85, built in monitor, tape drive, and BASIC. I forget what these cost, but we used a quite a few of these as instrument controllers at work in both engineering and production. On 2/13/2014 2:42 AM, John Coyle wrote: Very first computer I ever specified and bought for my employer was an HP86A, green screen, 2 * 5.25 floppies, plug-in 64k memory module, Epson M1500 printer and an HP plotter - bargain at $13,500! My *istD I bought for a heavily discounted $1900 direct from the importer. John Coyle Brisbane, Australia -Original Message- From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of CollinB Sent: Wednesday, 12 February 2014 10:47 PM To: pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: When did equipment get so cheap? Yeah, that's it. The same sort of thing happened with PC's. Remember what the first XT's cost? Alan C When I was selling Apple ][ plus computers, people would spend $2500+ on the system to run a $200 VisiCalc program. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: When did equipment get so cheap?
What were the exchange rates back then and how much of that cost was VAT or other import duties? On 2/13/2014 2:42 AM, John Coyle wrote: Very first computer I ever specified and bought for my employer was an HP86A, green screen, 2 * 5.25 floppies, plug-in 64k memory module, Epson M1500 printer and an HP plotter - bargain at $13,500! My *istD I bought for a heavily discounted $1900 direct from the importer. John Coyle Brisbane, Australia -Original Message- From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of CollinB Sent: Wednesday, 12 February 2014 10:47 PM To: pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: When did equipment get so cheap? Yeah, that's it. The same sort of thing happened with PC's. Remember what the first XT's cost? Alan C When I was selling Apple ][ plus computers, people would spend $2500+ on the system to run a $200 VisiCalc program. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: When did equipment get so cheap?
The first computer I ever used was a HP85, built in monitor, tape drive, and BASIC. I forget what these cost, but we used a quite a few of these as instrument controllers at work in both engineering and production. On 2/13/2014 2:42 AM, John Coyle wrote: Very first computer I ever specified and bought for my employer was an HP86A, green screen, 2 * 5.25 floppies, plug-in 64k memory module, Epson M1500 printer and an HP plotter - bargain at $13,500! My *istD I bought for a heavily discounted $1900 direct from the importer. John Coyle Brisbane, Australia -Original Message- From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of CollinB Sent: Wednesday, 12 February 2014 10:47 PM To: pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: When did equipment get so cheap? Yeah, that's it. The same sort of thing happened with PC's. Remember what the first XT's cost? Alan C When I was selling Apple ][ plus computers, people would spend $2500+ on the system to run a $200 VisiCalc program. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- J.C. O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -- -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: When did equipment get so cheap?
Very first computer I ever specified and bought for my employer was an HP86A, green screen, 2 * 5.25 floppies, plug-in 64k memory module, Epson M1500 printer and an HP plotter - bargain at $13,500! My *istD I bought for a heavily discounted $1900 direct from the importer. John Coyle Brisbane, Australia -Original Message- From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of CollinB Sent: Wednesday, 12 February 2014 10:47 PM To: pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: When did equipment get so cheap? >Yeah, that's it. The same sort of thing happened with PC's. Remember >what the first XT's cost? > >Alan C When I was selling Apple ][ plus computers, people would spend $2500+ on the system to run a $200 VisiCalc program. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: When did equipment get so cheap?
On 12 Feb 2014, at 18:28, "John" wrote: > > On 2/12/2014 7:46 AM, CollinB wrote: >>> Yeah, that's it. The same sort of thing happened with PC's. Remember what >>> the first XT's cost? >>> >>> Alan C >> >> When I was selling Apple ][ plus computers, people would spend $2500+ on the >> system to run a $200 VisiCalc program. > > I remember John Dvorak writing in PC magazine that what Moore's Law > really meant was that while computing power would double every 18 months > or so, the computer you'd *want* would always cost $2500. > Wirth's Law, which he attributes to Martin Reiser: "Software gets slower faster than hardware gets faster" B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: When did equipment get so cheap?
I think my first Mac (Mac+, 1987-88) was about $2250. Every one since then has been in the $1800-2200 range. stan On Feb 12, 2014, at 1:28 PM, John wrote: > On 2/12/2014 7:46 AM, CollinB wrote: >>> Yeah, that's it. The same sort of thing happened with PC's. Remember what >>> the first XT's cost? >>> >>> Alan C >> >> When I was selling Apple ][ plus computers, people would spend $2500+ on the >> system to run a $200 VisiCalc program. >> > > I remember John Dvorak writing in PC magazine that what Moore's Law > really meant was that while computing power would double every 18 months > or so, the computer you'd *want* would always cost $2500. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: When did equipment get so cheap?
On 2/12/2014 7:46 AM, CollinB wrote: Yeah, that's it. The same sort of thing happened with PC's. Remember what the first XT's cost? Alan C When I was selling Apple ][ plus computers, people would spend $2500+ on the system to run a $200 VisiCalc program. I remember John Dvorak writing in PC magazine that what Moore's Law really meant was that while computing power would double every 18 months or so, the computer you'd *want* would always cost $2500. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: When did equipment get so cheap?
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:11 AM, David J Brooks wrote: > Well, i paid $5000 for a 1 year old D1H in 2001, my istD in 2005 was > around $600 i think, so with that in mind, my next Dslr they should > pay me > > Dave Sorry that should read D1, my D1H was only $800 used Dave > > On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Bill wrote: >> When I bought my istD 10 short years ago, I recall dropping somewhat over >> $3200.00 for the camera, battery grip, lens and some AA batteries that never >> worked right. >> I just checked the price on the FUji X-T1 and some nice lenses. >> >> The body, 14mm, 23mm, and 60mm macro comes in at less than I paid for my >> istD kit. >> >> bill >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >> follow the directions. > > > > -- > Documenting Life in Rural Ontario. > www.caughtinmotion.com > http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ > York Region, Ontario, Canada -- Documenting Life in Rural Ontario. www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ York Region, Ontario, Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: When did equipment get so cheap?
Well, i paid $5000 for a 1 year old D1H in 2001, my istD in 2005 was around $600 i think, so with that in mind, my next Dslr they should pay me Dave On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Bill wrote: > When I bought my istD 10 short years ago, I recall dropping somewhat over > $3200.00 for the camera, battery grip, lens and some AA batteries that never > worked right. > I just checked the price on the FUji X-T1 and some nice lenses. > > The body, 14mm, 23mm, and 60mm macro comes in at less than I paid for my > istD kit. > > bill > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. -- Documenting Life in Rural Ontario. www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ York Region, Ontario, Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: When did equipment get so cheap?
On 11/02/2014 10:06 PM, Miserere wrote: Bill, Unless you're OK with just 1:2 macro, skip the 60mm and spring for the 56mm f/1.2. Yeah, that's the way I will go. I have plenty of good macro lenses already, but the 56/1.2 should be dreamy. The 35mm f/1.4 is also quite nice, although if you're a 35mm-e kinda guy, the 23mm will make you very, very happy. I bought the 35/1.4 with my X-Pro1. That lens was my reason for buying the Fuji in the first place. I wanted a fast standard, and Pentax doesn't make one. I'm hearing really good things about the 23, but considering how little use my Pentax 21 has gotten, I will probably give it a pass, at least for now. bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: When did equipment get so cheap?
On 11/02/2014 7:01 PM, Bruce Walker wrote: Combination of very mature technology and outsourcing to Asian sweatshops I guess. Mature tech, for sure, but the Fuji stuff is all MIJ. I see one of these little Fuji's in my future. bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: When did equipment get so cheap?
don't forget that aps-c was originally a cost saving compromise. I believe the original canon d30 was introduced at $3000, which was considered "affordable" compared to the really expensive kodak and aps-h offerings by canon. On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 8:25 AM, Zos Xavius wrote: > sensors cost far less now than they once did. same with imaging > processors. that's why so many companies are putting larger sensors in > cameras now and looking more at full frame which sony blazed into new > territories with. that they are making MF sensors now tells me that > sensor production costs have come down tremendously indeed. > > On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 7:46 AM, CollinB wrote: >>>Yeah, that's it. The same sort of thing happened with PC's. Remember what >>>the first XT's cost? >>> >>>Alan C >> >> When I was selling Apple ][ plus computers, people would spend $2500+ on the >> system to run a $200 VisiCalc program. >> >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >> follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: When did equipment get so cheap?
sensors cost far less now than they once did. same with imaging processors. that's why so many companies are putting larger sensors in cameras now and looking more at full frame which sony blazed into new territories with. that they are making MF sensors now tells me that sensor production costs have come down tremendously indeed. On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 7:46 AM, CollinB wrote: >>Yeah, that's it. The same sort of thing happened with PC's. Remember what >>the first XT's cost? >> >>Alan C > > When I was selling Apple ][ plus computers, people would spend $2500+ on the > system to run a $200 VisiCalc program. > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: When did equipment get so cheap?
>Yeah, that's it. The same sort of thing happened with PC's. Remember what >the first XT's cost? > >Alan C When I was selling Apple ][ plus computers, people would spend $2500+ on the system to run a $200 VisiCalc program. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: When did equipment get so cheap?
On February 11, 2014 7:39:54 PM EST, Bill wrote: >When I bought my istD 10 short years ago, I recall dropping somewhat >over $3200.00 for the camera, battery grip, lens and some AA batteries >that never worked right. >I just checked the price on the FUji X-T1 and some nice lenses. > >The body, 14mm, 23mm, and 60mm macro comes in at less than I paid for >my >istD kit. > >bill Oh, and I paid around $750 for a brand new K10D in 2007. Would have liked to upgrade to the K-5 except I couldn't stomach paying $1,600 for it (in late 2010 was it?). The new TC is $600 and all the star zooms are north of $1k if I'm not mistaken, so Fuji's prices now seem reasonable to a Pentaxian. Cheers, —M. \/\/o/\/\ --> http://WorldOfMiserere.com http://EnticingTheLight.com A Quest for Photographic Enlightenment -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: When did equipment get so cheap?
Yeah, that's it. The same sort of thing happened with PC's. Remember what the first XT's cost? Alan C -Original Message- From: Bruce Walker Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 3:01 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: When did equipment get so cheap? Combination of very mature technology and outsourcing to Asian sweatshops I guess. On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Bill wrote: When I bought my istD 10 short years ago, I recall dropping somewhat over $3200.00 for the camera, battery grip, lens and some AA batteries that never worked right. I just checked the price on the FUji X-T1 and some nice lenses. The body, 14mm, 23mm, and 60mm macro comes in at less than I paid for my istD kit. bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: When did equipment get so cheap?
On February 11, 2014 7:39:54 PM EST, Bill wrote: >When I bought my istD 10 short years ago, I recall dropping somewhat >over $3200.00 for the camera, battery grip, lens and some AA batteries >that never worked right. >I just checked the price on the FUji X-T1 and some nice lenses. > >The body, 14mm, 23mm, and 60mm macro comes in at less than I paid for >my >istD kit. > >bill Bill, Unless you're OK with just 1:2 macro, skip the 60mm and spring for the 56mm f/1.2. The 35mm f/1.4 is also quite nice, although if you're a 35mm-e kinda guy, the 23mm will make you very, very happy. Cheers, —M. \/\/o/\/\ --> http://WorldOfMiserere.com http://EnticingTheLight.com A Quest for Photographic Enlightenment -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: When did equipment get so cheap?
If I remember correctly, I paid about $2000 (taxes included) for an *ist-D, battery grip, 256MB CF card & a used Tameron 28-200 lens. I had to drive down to a local dealer's branch store in Wilmington, NC to pick it up because they didn't have the grip in the Raleigh store. I didn't think to take a lens along, so I bought the Tamron lens so I'd have something to shoot with on the drive back to Raleigh. I think the Tamron lens was about $300 & the 256MB CF card was about $100 at that time, so the *ist-D & battery grip must have been about $1600. That was February 14, 2004, just before I shipped out for Iraq. We got the weekend off right after our big departure ceremony. I photographed the ceremony with a PZ-1P. On 2/11/2014 7:58 PM, J.C. O'Connell wrote: When I bought my *istDS in late 2006 I got body only for only $360 new in box. Seems like early adopters really got soaked thru Pentax. On 2/11/2014 7:39 PM, Bill wrote: When I bought my istD 10 short years ago, I recall dropping somewhat over $3200.00 for the camera, battery grip, lens and some AA batteries that never worked right. I just checked the price on the FUji X-T1 and some nice lenses. The body, 14mm, 23mm, and 60mm macro comes in at less than I paid for my istD kit. bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: When did equipment get so cheap?
On Feb 11, 2014, at 4:58 PM, J.C. O'Connell wrote: > When I bought my *istDS in late 2006 I got body only for only $360 new in box. > Seems like early adopters really got soaked thru Pentax. Yeah, and if D700 prices dropped the way the prices do on Pentax bodies, I might have picked one up. When I look at the way Pentax performance has risen and prices have dropped over the past few years, it’s really tough for me to feel too sad. It probably prompted at least two body upgrades that wouldn’t have happened otherwise. > > On 2/11/2014 7:39 PM, Bill wrote: >> When I bought my istD 10 short years ago, I recall dropping somewhat over >> $3200.00 for the camera, battery grip, lens and some AA batteries that never >> worked right. >> I just checked the price on the FUji X-T1 and some nice lenses. >> >> The body, 14mm, 23mm, and 60mm macro comes in at less than I paid for my >> istD kit. >> >> bill >> > > > -- > J.C. O'Connell > hifis...@gate.net > -- > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: When did equipment get so cheap?
Combination of very mature technology and outsourcing to Asian sweatshops I guess. On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Bill wrote: > When I bought my istD 10 short years ago, I recall dropping somewhat over > $3200.00 for the camera, battery grip, lens and some AA batteries that never > worked right. > I just checked the price on the FUji X-T1 and some nice lenses. > > The body, 14mm, 23mm, and 60mm macro comes in at less than I paid for my > istD kit. > > bill > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: When did equipment get so cheap?
When I bought my *istDS in late 2006 I got body only for only $360 new in box. Seems like early adopters really got soaked thru Pentax. On 2/11/2014 7:39 PM, Bill wrote: When I bought my istD 10 short years ago, I recall dropping somewhat over $3200.00 for the camera, battery grip, lens and some AA batteries that never worked right. I just checked the price on the FUji X-T1 and some nice lenses. The body, 14mm, 23mm, and 60mm macro comes in at less than I paid for my istD kit. bill -- J.C. O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -- -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
When did equipment get so cheap?
When I bought my istD 10 short years ago, I recall dropping somewhat over $3200.00 for the camera, battery grip, lens and some AA batteries that never worked right. I just checked the price on the FUji X-T1 and some nice lenses. The body, 14mm, 23mm, and 60mm macro comes in at less than I paid for my istD kit. bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
