Re: [PEIRCE-L] How language began, a Ted talk by Dan Everett
Dear John, Thanks for posting the link, I enjoyed Dan Everett TEDx talk on homo erectus, pushing back language origins. Two brief comments. Re persistence hunting: Hand gestures can be much more helpful than spoken language for group to maintain “radio silence.” So I would suspect there would be a hand gesturing sign language from very early. This also could connect to an older history, as observed in chimps now, of hand gestures as more flexible early on than facial gestures or vocalizations. And Dan, re your remarks near the end concerning Johnny Erectus as first person who spoke. It seems to me more likey that it was Johnny’s Mom bantering with him when he was a newborn. “Motherese” is huge in language formation and origins, as Dean Falk (*Finding Our Tongues: Mothers, Infants and the Origins of Language*), Sarah Hrdy, (*Mothers and Others: The Evolutionary Origins of Mutual Understanding*), and others have discussed. I wonder what you might think of this, Dan. Gene Halton On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 8:06 AM, John F Sowa wrote: > I came across a Ted talk by Dan E with the title > "How language began". At the halfway mark (9 minutes) > he mentions Peirce and relates his semiotic to the issues: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFxg5vkaPgk > > My only comment would be that there was probably some > kind of vocalization a few million years earlier. > > Chimpanzees in the wild use gestures to communicate among > themselves. When Australopithecus began to walk upright, > they could carry stuff (food, weapons, and babies). Sounds > would be a useful supplement when their hands were full. > > John > > > - > PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON > PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to > peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L > but to l...@list.iupui.edu with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the > BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm > . > > > > > > - PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm .
Re: [PEIRCE-L] How language began, a Ted talk by Dan Everett
Ditto for Terrence Deacon's *The Symbolic Species: The co-evolution of language and the human brain,* which relies heavily and explicitly on Peirce for an explanation of how words come to mean anything at all, and how humans get that. It's an excellent integration of Peircean thought into a theory about language evolution. On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 11:05 AM, Clark Goble wrote: > > > On Jun 14, 2018, at 6:06 AM, John F Sowa wrote: > > I came across a Ted talk by Dan E with the title > "How language began". At the halfway mark (9 minutes) > he mentions Peirce and relates his semiotic to the issues: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFxg5vkaPgk > > My only comment would be that there was probably some > kind of vocalization a few million years earlier. > > Chimpanzees in the wild use gestures to communicate among > themselves. When Australopithecus began to walk upright, > they could carry stuff (food, weapons, and babies). Sounds > would be a useful supplement when their hands were full. > > > Some of Tomasello’s writings end up adopting fairly Peircean ideas along > those lines. So far as I can recall he never mentions Peirce nor thirdness > but much of his work ends up tied to a more robust thirdness leading to > language. As I recall *The Cultural Origins of Human Cognition* has a lot > of Peircean-like elements to it. > > > > > - > PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON > PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to > peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L > but to l...@list.iupui.edu with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the > BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm > . > > > > > > - PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm .
Re: [PEIRCE-L] How language began, a Ted talk by Dan Everett
> On Jun 14, 2018, at 6:06 AM, John F Sowa wrote: > > I came across a Ted talk by Dan E with the title > "How language began". At the halfway mark (9 minutes) > he mentions Peirce and relates his semiotic to the issues: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFxg5vkaPgk > > My only comment would be that there was probably some > kind of vocalization a few million years earlier. > > Chimpanzees in the wild use gestures to communicate among > themselves. When Australopithecus began to walk upright, > they could carry stuff (food, weapons, and babies). Sounds > would be a useful supplement when their hands were full. Some of Tomasello’s writings end up adopting fairly Peircean ideas along those lines. So far as I can recall he never mentions Peirce nor thirdness but much of his work ends up tied to a more robust thirdness leading to language. As I recall The Cultural Origins of Human Cognition has a lot of Peircean-like elements to it. - PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm .
[PEIRCE-L] How language began, a Ted talk by Dan Everett
I came across a Ted talk by Dan E with the title "How language began". At the halfway mark (9 minutes) he mentions Peirce and relates his semiotic to the issues: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFxg5vkaPgk My only comment would be that there was probably some kind of vocalization a few million years earlier. Chimpanzees in the wild use gestures to communicate among themselves. When Australopithecus began to walk upright, they could carry stuff (food, weapons, and babies). Sounds would be a useful supplement when their hands were full. John - PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm .
