Re: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 24

[Jon Alan Schmidt]

Robert, List:

I do not recall ever *denying *the value of the poset (3→2→1) as a
mathematical hypothesis with application to phaneroscopy, or that there is
indeed a sense in which it is isomorphic to Peirce's universal categories
(3ns→2ns→1ns). In fact, last week I explicitly *acknowledged *that it "is a
a mathematical (i.e., iconic/diagrammatic) *representation *of Peirce's
categories and (especially) their relations," denying only that it is
"properly identified with the categories *themselves*" (
https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/arc/peirce-l/2021-08/msg00039.html).

Moreover, as discussed on the List last month (
https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/arc/peirce-l/2021-07/msg00091.html), Francesco
Bellucci similarly proposes that the formal logic of relations/relatives is
what enables Peirce to "establish that the elements of the Phaneron have
valence" (
https://www.academia.edu/11664897/Peirce_on_Phaneroscopical_Analysis, p.
3). I suggested that this is likewise an example of *applied *mathematics,
"using principles adapted from mathematics within phaneroscopy" (
https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/arc/peirce-l/2021-07/msg00082.html).

Regards,

Jon S.

On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 11:30 AM robert marty 
wrote:

> Jon Alan, List,
>
> JAS > " ... what is allegedly still not being recognized?"
>
> But I will tell you! What now stands in the way of your recognizing the
> value of the mathematical object (Poset) "3→2→1" (C) (the arrow
> representing abstracts morphisms)? Because I have shown very simply ( see
> Podium, section 6, p.18) that this object is isomorphic to the
> phaneroscopic object "Thirdness →Secondness →Firstness" (D) ( with the
> arrow representing involvements).  I have been proposing it for a very long
> time as a provider of the mathematical principles of phaneroscopy. If you
> can present me a better one I am ready to redirect my research ...
>
> Regards,
>
> Robert Marty
> Honorary Professor ; PhD Mathematics ; PhD Philosophy
> fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Marty
> *https://martyrobert.academia.edu/ *
>
> Le mer. 11 août 2021 à 16:56, Jon Alan Schmidt 
> a écrit :
>
>> Robert, List:
>>
>> Where has anyone disputed anything stated in the quotation below from
>> Peirce or implied by the subsequent question? Having acknowledged
>> repeatedly that formulating ideal hypotheses from which necessary
>> conclusions are subsequently drawn indeed falls within the scope of pure
>> mathematics, what is allegedly still not being recognized?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA
>> Structural Engineer, Synechist Philosopher, Lutheran Christian
>> www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt - twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 8:01 AM Robert Marty 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> CS Peirce : 1897 [c.] | On Multitude | MS [R] 26:1
>>>
>>> Mathematics is a study of exact hypotheses, in so far as consequences
>>> can be deduced from them. *To limit mathematics to the deduction* of
>>> those consequences would be to separate from it some of the greatest of the
>>> achievements of modern mathematicians – achievements which nobody but
>>> mathematicians could have performed – such as the formation of the idea of
>>> the system of imaginaries, and of the idea of Riemann surfaces*. It
>>> must be allowed, therefore, that the formation of the hypotheses is a part
>>> of the business of mathematics*." [emphasize mine]
>>>
>>>
>>> Of course, since recognizing mathematical forms in experiments (his own
>>> or those submitted to him by phaneroscopists) requires having the right
>>> forms in his mind... why not recognize it?
>>>
>>>
>>> 路
>>>
>>> Le mer. 11 août 2021 à 13:18,  a écrit :
>>>
 Continuing our slow read on phaneroscopy, here is the next slide of
 André De Tienne’s slideshow posted on the Peirce Edition Project
 (iupui.edu)  
 site.


 Gary f.





 Text:

- What mathematicians observe (and construct and manipulate) are *pure
hypotheses, possibilia* that get represented in diagrams.
- The significance and truth-value of such constructs depends only
on their *internal* inferential coherence, *not on the world of
experience*.
- Mathematics seeks to *derive consequences* that are true in *every
possible configuration*, and not merely what is true of the actual
world.
- In that regard, *pure mathematics plays freely with forms*,
unconcerned with whether they play any part in experience.


_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
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Re: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 24

[robert marty]

Jon Alan, List,

JAS > " ... what is allegedly still not being recognized?"

But I will tell you! What now stands in the way of your recognizing the
value of the mathematical object (Poset) "3→2→1" (C) (the arrow
representing abstracts morphisms)? Because I have shown very simply ( see
Podium, section 6, p.18) that this object is isomorphic to the
phaneroscopic object "Thirdness →Secondness →Firstness" (D) ( with the
arrow representing involvements).  I have been proposing it for a very long
time as a provider of the mathematical principles of phaneroscopy. If you
can present me a better one I am ready to redirect my research ...

Regards,

Robert Marty
Honorary Professor ; PhD Mathematics ; PhD Philosophy
fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Marty
*https://martyrobert.academia.edu/ *



Le mer. 11 août 2021 à 16:56, Jon Alan Schmidt  a
écrit :

> Robert, List:
>
> Where has anyone disputed anything stated in the quotation below from
> Peirce or implied by the subsequent question? Having acknowledged
> repeatedly that formulating ideal hypotheses from which necessary
> conclusions are subsequently drawn indeed falls within the scope of pure
> mathematics, what is allegedly still not being recognized?
>
> Regards,
>
> Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA
> Structural Engineer, Synechist Philosopher, Lutheran Christian
> www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt - twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt
>
> On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 8:01 AM Robert Marty 
> wrote:
>
>> CS Peirce : 1897 [c.] | On Multitude | MS [R] 26:1
>>
>> Mathematics is a study of exact hypotheses, in so far as consequences can
>> be deduced from them. *To limit mathematics to the deduction* of those
>> consequences would be to separate from it some of the greatest of the
>> achievements of modern mathematicians – achievements which nobody but
>> mathematicians could have performed – such as the formation of the idea of
>> the system of imaginaries, and of the idea of Riemann surfaces*. It must
>> be allowed, therefore, that the formation of the hypotheses is a part of
>> the business of mathematics*." [emphasize mine]
>>
>>
>> Of course, since recognizing mathematical forms in experiments (his own
>> or those submitted to him by phaneroscopists) requires having the right
>> forms in his mind... why not recognize it?
>>
>>
>> 路
>>
>> Le mer. 11 août 2021 à 13:18,  a écrit :
>>
>>> Continuing our slow read on phaneroscopy, here is the next slide of
>>> André De Tienne’s slideshow posted on the Peirce Edition Project
>>> (iupui.edu)  site.
>>>
>>>
>>> Gary f.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Text:
>>>
>>>- What mathematicians observe (and construct and manipulate) are *pure
>>>hypotheses, possibilia* that get represented in diagrams.
>>>- The significance and truth-value of such constructs depends only
>>>on their *internal* inferential coherence, *not on the world of
>>>experience*.
>>>- Mathematics seeks to *derive consequences* that are true in *every
>>>possible configuration*, and not merely what is true of the actual
>>>world.
>>>- In that regard, *pure mathematics plays freely with forms*,
>>>unconcerned with whether they play any part in experience.
>>>
>>> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
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Re: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 24

[Jon Alan Schmidt]

Robert, List:

Where has anyone disputed anything stated in the quotation below from
Peirce or implied by the subsequent question? Having acknowledged
repeatedly that formulating ideal hypotheses from which necessary
conclusions are subsequently drawn indeed falls within the scope of pure
mathematics, what is allegedly still not being recognized?

Regards,

Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA
Structural Engineer, Synechist Philosopher, Lutheran Christian
www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt - twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt

On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 8:01 AM Robert Marty 
wrote:

> CS Peirce : 1897 [c.] | On Multitude | MS [R] 26:1
>
> Mathematics is a study of exact hypotheses, in so far as consequences can
> be deduced from them. *To limit mathematics to the deduction* of those
> consequences would be to separate from it some of the greatest of the
> achievements of modern mathematicians – achievements which nobody but
> mathematicians could have performed – such as the formation of the idea of
> the system of imaginaries, and of the idea of Riemann surfaces*. It must
> be allowed, therefore, that the formation of the hypotheses is a part of
> the business of mathematics*." [emphasize mine]
>
>
> Of course, since recognizing mathematical forms in experiments (his own or
> those submitted to him by phaneroscopists) requires having the right forms
> in his mind... why not recognize it?
>
>
> 路
>
> Le mer. 11 août 2021 à 13:18,  a écrit :
>
>> Continuing our slow read on phaneroscopy, here is the next slide of André
>> De Tienne’s slideshow posted on the Peirce Edition Project (iupui.edu)
>>  site.
>>
>> Gary f.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Text:
>>
>>- What mathematicians observe (and construct and manipulate) are *pure
>>hypotheses, possibilia* that get represented in diagrams.
>>- The significance and truth-value of such constructs depends only on
>>their *internal* inferential coherence, *not on the world of
>>experience*.
>>- Mathematics seeks to *derive consequences* that are true in *every
>>possible configuration*, and not merely what is true of the actual
>>world.
>>- In that regard, *pure mathematics plays freely with forms*,
>>unconcerned with whether they play any part in experience.
>>
>>
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
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Re: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 24

[Robert Marty]

CS Peirce : 1897 [c.] | On Multitude | MS [R] 26:1

Mathematics is a study of exact hypotheses, in so far as consequences can
be deduced from them. *To limit mathematics to the deduction* of those
consequences would be to separate from it some of the greatest of the
achievements of modern mathematicians – achievements which nobody but
mathematicians could have performed – such as the formation of the idea of
the system of imaginaries, and of the idea of Riemann surfaces*. It must be
allowed, therefore, that the formation of the hypotheses is a part of the
business of mathematics*." [emphasize mine]


Of course, since recognizing mathematical forms in experiments (his own or
those submitted to him by phaneroscopists) requires having the right forms
in his mind... why not recognize it?


路

Le mer. 11 août 2021 à 13:18,  a écrit :

> Continuing our slow read on phaneroscopy, here is the next slide of André
> De Tienne’s slideshow posted on the Peirce Edition Project (iupui.edu)
>  site.
>
> Gary f.
>
>
>
>
>
> Text:
>
>- What mathematicians observe (and construct and manipulate) are *pure
>hypotheses, possibilia* that get represented in diagrams.
>- The significance and truth-value of such constructs depends only on
>their *internal* inferential coherence, *not on the world of
>experience*.
>- Mathematics seeks to *derive consequences* that are true in *every
>possible configuration*, and not merely what is true of the actual
>world.
>- In that regard, *pure mathematics plays freely with forms*,
>unconcerned with whether they play any part in experience.
>
> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
> ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON
> PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to
> peirce-L@list.iupui.edu .
> ► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to
> l...@list.iupui.edu with UNSUBSCRIBE PEIRCE-L in the SUBJECT LINE of the
> message and nothing in the body.  More at
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> ► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP;  moderated by Gary Richmond;  and
> co-managed by him and Ben Udell.
>
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co-managed by him and Ben Udell.