Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Secret Language of Plants
BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px; }Oh
dear, oh dear. I love the smell of newly cut grass. Does that mean -
it must mean - yes, yes, that I am some kind of hidden sadist; that I
love the 'smell of destruction'; that I am transported by the whiff of
.
But yes, every cell has memory, i.e., Thirdness - and can 'feel'
[Firstness] and react [Secondness]...
Edwina Taborsky
On Sat 25/11/17 5:30 PM , John F Sowa s...@bestweb.net sent:
On 11/25/2017 8:21 AM, Stephen Jarosek wrote:
> Plants don’t have brains because the choices that they make
> from their Umwelts are simple, and in “slow motion”.
Yes, but every cell from bacteria on up has memory and can
signal neighboring cells via chemical excretions. When a cell
is attacked, it can generate such chemicals even at the instant
before it disintegrates.
The next time you mow your lawn, remember that the smell of the
newly cut grass is a scream that says "THE LAWNMOWER MONSTER
IS ATTACKING!" -- or some paraphrase to that effect.
John
-
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Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Secret Language of Plants
On 11/25/2017 8:21 AM, Stephen Jarosek wrote: Plants don’t have brains because the choices that they make from their Umwelts are simple, and in “slow motion”. Yes, but every cell from bacteria on up has memory and can signal neighboring cells via chemical excretions. When a cell is attacked, it can generate such chemicals even at the instant before it disintegrates. The next time you mow your lawn, remember that the smell of the newly cut grass is a scream that says "THE LAWNMOWER MONSTER IS ATTACKING!" -- or some paraphrase to that effect. John - PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm .
Re: RE: [PEIRCE-L] The Secret Language of Plants
Yes, I agree - it's the role of energy. In 1997, I set up an international conference titled SEE: Semiosis/Evolution/Energy. This was specifically devoted to the concept that semiosis deals with the 'rational' transformation of energy from one morphology into another. We had speakers from physics, biology, AI, etc. The idea is that ALL matter is a semiosic formation of energy and the function of this semiosis is to enable functional adaptations, to enable networkingall to prevent the ultimate dissipations of energy. The world is viewed as a CAS, a complex adaptive system. We continued this focus in journal articles etc..and another conference a few years later. Edwina On Sat 25/11/17 8:21 AM , "Stephen Jarosek" sjaro...@iinet.net.au sent: EDWINA: “And it IS an aspect of 'Mind'. As Peirce said - "Thought is not necessarily connected with a brain.” Ultimately, the question of what role a brain plays relates to thermodynamics. Plants don’t have brains because the choices that they make from their Umwelts are simple, and in “slow motion”. They receive a distributed, limited form of energy from the sun and nutrients from the soil, and so they cannot afford to squander their energy in the same way that brained organisms can… it’s why plants don’t have legs, why they don’t get up and move around. The “brain” of the plant is therefore distributed throughout its body, in its leaves, branches, roots and stem… that’s how I would interpret it. Carnivorous plants, however, such as the Venus flytrap, receive excess energy & nutrients from the insects that they digest, and therefore are able to divert that energy to “hunting” for supplementary food sources. And by the time that some hypothetical plant might develop sufficiently to get up and move around, it would cross an energy-access threshold whereby it would no longer need its leaves… it then becomes an animal and, by necessity, one that requires a brain. Brains are required for more complex conceptualizations, in order to accommodate energy-intensive choice-making from complex environments. From: Edwina Taborsky [mailto:tabor...@primus.ca [1]] Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2017 12:42 AM To: peirce-l@list.iupui.edu [2]; Charles Pyle Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Secret Language of Plants Thanks for the article. Biosemiotics is very involved with this reality - of plant communication. And it IS an aspect of 'Mind'. As Peirce said - "Thought is not necessarily connected with a brain. It appears in the work of bees, of crystals and throughout the purely physical world'. 4.551. And 'Mind' is most certainly operative in the biological realm. Edwina Taborsky On Fri 24/11/17 5:08 PM , Charles Pyle charlesp...@comcast.net [3] sent: Striking evidence that plants warn each other of environmental dangers is reviving a once ridiculed field. https://www.quantamagazine.org/the-secret-language-of-plants-20131216/ [4] Links: -- [1] http://webmail.primus.ca/javascript:top.opencompose(\'tabor...@primus.ca\',\'\',\'\',\'\') [2] http://webmail.primus.ca/javascript:top.opencompose(\'peirce-l@list.iupui.edu\',\'\',\'\',\'\') [3] http://webmail.primus.ca/javascript:top.opencompose(\'charlesp...@comcast.net\',\'\',\'\',\'\') [4] https://www.quantamagazine.org/the-secret-language-of-plants-20131216/ - PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm .
RE: [PEIRCE-L] The Secret Language of Plants
EDWINA: “And it IS an aspect of 'Mind'. As Peirce said - "Thought is not necessarily connected with a brain.” Ultimately, the question of what role a brain plays relates to thermodynamics. Plants don’t have brains because the choices that they make from their Umwelts are simple, and in “slow motion”. They receive a distributed, limited form of energy from the sun and nutrients from the soil, and so they cannot afford to squander their energy in the same way that brained organisms can… it’s why plants don’t have legs, why they don’t get up and move around. The “brain” of the plant is therefore distributed throughout its body, in its leaves, branches, roots and stem… that’s how I would interpret it. Carnivorous plants, however, such as the Venus flytrap, receive excess energy & nutrients from the insects that they digest, and therefore are able to divert that energy to “hunting” for supplementary food sources. And by the time that some hypothetical plant might develop sufficiently to get up and move around, it would cross an energy-access threshold whereby it would no longer need its leaves… it then becomes an animal and, by necessity, one that requires a brain. Brains are required for more complex conceptualizations, in order to accommodate energy-intensive choice-making from complex environments. From: Edwina Taborsky [mailto:tabor...@primus.ca] Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2017 12:42 AM To: peirce-l@list.iupui.edu; Charles Pyle Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Secret Language of Plants Thanks for the article. Biosemiotics is very involved with this reality - of plant communication. And it IS an aspect of 'Mind'. As Peirce said - "Thought is not necessarily connected with a brain. It appears in the work of bees, of crystals and throughout the purely physical world'. 4.551. And 'Mind' is most certainly operative in the biological realm. Edwina Taborsky On Fri 24/11/17 5:08 PM , Charles Pyle charlesp...@comcast.net sent: Striking evidence that plants warn each other of environmental dangers is reviving a once ridiculed field. https://www.quantamagazine.org/the-secret-language-of-plants-20131216/ - PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm .
Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Secret Language of Plants
Thanks for the article. Biosemiotics is very involved with this reality - of plant communication. And it IS an aspect of 'Mind'. As Peirce said - "Thought is not necessarily connected with a brain. It appears in the work of bees, of crystals and throughout the purely physical world'. 4.551. And 'Mind' is most certainly operative in the biological realm. Edwina Taborsky On Fri 24/11/17 5:08 PM , Charles Pyle charlesp...@comcast.net sent: Striking evidence that plants warn each other of environmental dangers is reviving a once ridiculed field. https://www.quantamagazine.org/the-secret-language-of-plants-20131216/ - PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm .
