Re: Rob Scaap's Moment?

2000-09-21 Thread Eugene Coyle

Apologies, Rob, for misspelling your name.  I know how to spell it.  And I
should have written more about the weaknesses evident in the US economy.
But off it went.

Gene

Eugene Coyle wrote:

> The Minsky zone piece reminded me that I've been thinking that Rob
> Scaap's moment has arrived.  US consumers have been living on the edge
> and now face much higher costs for commuting, home heating, electric
> power --- all busting the budgets.
>
> Meanwhile car and truck sales have been sustained only by large and
> larger price cuts, and now profits are topping out and slipping.  Stock
> prices aren't going up, and lots are going down.
>
> If the US goes, can Europe and Asia be far behind?
>
> This may be the moment that Rob has foreseen.
>
> Gene Coyle




Re: Re: Re: a profound comment on the "transformation problem"

2000-09-21 Thread JKSCHW

In a message dated 9/21/00 4:58:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< His main point seems to be a relatively common-sense explanation of the 
 "solution" to the "transformation problem" that Fred Moseley advocates. See 
 the latter's article in the current _Review of Radical Political Economics_ 
 or in the book he edited, _Marx's Method in Capital_. It's a very simple 
 solution, basically saying that there's no problem at all, since prices and 
 values normally differ, but total prices = total value, while total 
 property income = total surplus-value. >>

For a crisp demolition of this "solution," see M.C. Howard and J.E. King, A 
History of Marxian Economics, vol II., pp. 276-80. --jks




Women's Work in the Silent Era (was Re: [fla-left] [genderissues/culture] Hey, Hollywood)

2000-09-21 Thread Yoshie Furuhashi

> > forwarded by Michael Hoover
> >
> > > Hey, Hollywood: What's Wrong With This Picture?
> > > Run Date: 09/18/00
> > >
> > > By Jeannine Yeomans
> > > WEnews correspondent
>
> > > New research by Martha Lauzen, Ph.D., a professor at San Diego State
> > > University, reveals that among the 207 top grossing films last year,
> > > women constituted only 17 percent of all creators behind the scenes,
> > > including producers, directors, writers, and editors.
> > >
> > > Only 4 percent of directors were women, a drop from 8 percent the
> > > previous year. There were other significant declines in the numbers of
> > > executive producers from 21 percent to 15 percent, and female editors
> > > from 13 percent to 8 percent. The picture for television is similarly
> > > bleak.

*   The New York Times
September 15, 2000, Friday, Late Edition - Final
SECTION: Section E; Part 1; Page 25; Column 1; Movies, Performing 
Arts/Weekend Desk
HEADLINE: HOME VIDEO;
Women's Work In the Silent Era
BYLINE:  By Peter M. Nichols

New VHS and DVD editions of "This Is Spinal Tap," Rob Reiner's 1984 
parody of a rock documentary, were released on Tuesday, but some of 
the better entertainment issued this week can be found in two new 
series from the silent era: "First Ladies: Early Women Filmmakers 
1915-25" from Kino and "Equal Time: The Women of Cinema" from 
Milestone

Good silent films hold surprises, not least the people who made them. 
In the earliest days strong women frequently produced and directed 
what they also wrote and starred in. "Women were allowed to work 
because there weren't great profits to be made yet in that industry," 
said Dennis Doros, president of Milestone, a distributor of classic 
films.

Once the money got better in the 1930's, men asserted themselves and 
professional life became more complicated for women like Dorothy 
Davenport Reid, the producer and co-director of "The Red Kimona" 
(1925), about a young girl who is tricked into becoming a prostitute 
in New Orleans and murders her pimp.

The Kino series includes five films, all of them preserved by the 
motion picture department at the Library of Congress. The four others 
are "The Ocean Waif" by Alice Guy-Blache, one of the first directors 
of either sex, who had made more than 700 shorts and features by 
1916; "49-17," a western satire by Ruth Ann Baldwin; "Eleanor's 
Catch" (1916), a two-reeler by Cleo Madison about still another young 
woman done in by a lowdown man; and "Hypocrites" (1915), written, 
directed and produced by Lois Weber.

A colleague of Guy-Blache, Weber was known for her moral crusades. In 
"Hypocrites" the subject was "the naked truth" as envisioned by a 
hand-wringing religious ascetic and sculptor who, inspired by a woman 
scampering in the buff, renders a nude statue of same. On its 
unveiling, the good citizens, all cheats and perverts, to judge by 
Weber's interpretation, are shocked.

Notes on the cassette box call the film "amazingly complex." Bizarre, 
too. "Definitely off the wall," said Jessica Rosner of Kino. "That's 
real nudity. If you look closely, you can see everything." In Boston, 
clothes had to be painted on the woman before the film was 
distributed.

The Milestone series moves on to the talkies with "The Gay Desperado" 
(1936), starring Ida Lupino, and Mervyn LeRoy's "Tonight or Never" 
(1931), with Gloria Swanson as an opera diva who has lost the passion 
for her work. But there are also Frances Marion's silent "Love Light" 
(1921), with Mary Pickford as a betrayed wife, a role intended to 
change her her little-girl image, and two silent films by Nell 
Shipman, "Back to God's Country" (1919) and "Something New" (1920).

Shipman, a conservationist, set her two films in northern Canada and 
the Mojave desert, respectively. "She did action films," Mr. Doros 
said. In "Something New" the heroine (Shipman), her boyfriend and her 
collie, Laddie, escape mounted bandits across rocky terrain in a 
Maxwell sedan, a forerunner of the sport utility vehicle.

For information on the Milestone series, call (800) 603-1104. For the 
Kino tapes, call (800) 562-3330.   *

Yoshie




Rob Scaap's Moment?

2000-09-21 Thread Eugene Coyle

The Minsky zone piece reminded me that I've been thinking that Rob
Scaap's moment has arrived.  US consumers have been living on the edge
and now face much higher costs for commuting, home heating, electric
power --- all busting the budgets.

Meanwhile car and truck sales have been sustained only by large and
larger price cuts, and now profits are topping out and slipping.  Stock
prices aren't going up, and lots are going down.

If the US goes, can Europe and Asia be far behind?

This may be the moment that Rob has foreseen.

Gene Coyle




"Maoism" in Nepal

2000-09-21 Thread Jim Devine

While coming home from work, I heard the tail-end of a story on US National 
Public Radio, about a "Maoist" insurgency in Nepal, of all places. 
Interestingly, the reporter's chosen expert blamed the increase in economic 
inequality during the last 10 years of a regime of "multi-party democracy." 
Is this a rebellion against neoliberal democracy? does anyone know about this?
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] & http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~JDevine




Minsky zones ahead

2000-09-21 Thread Lisa & Ian Murray

full article at http://www.iht.com/IHT/TODAY/FRI/FIN/banks.2.html


Paris, Friday, September 22, 2000
As U.S. Economy Surges, Banks Make Riskier Loans


By Kathleen Day Washington Post Service

WASHINGTON - Troubled loans to U.S. businesses have more than doubled in two
years, to $100 billion, despite the robust economy. This has raised concern
that banks are using lax credit standards to compete for market share,
according to banking regulators.
At the same time, consumer-lending standards have fallen in some key areas,
particularly home-equity loans, the U.S. Office of the Comptroller of the
Currency said Wednesday in an annual report on banks' lending practices.

The percentage of consumer debt now held in home and home-equity loans is at
its highest level since 1995, the agency said.

The combination of these trends has regulators worried that if the economy
falters, banks will be unprepared for the losses they could face.

Bank regulators used the release of the survey to criticize what they say is
an environment that forces banks to focus on quarterly profit increases
rather than on long-term stability.

In the present competitive banking world, financial institutions'
willingness to make more risky loans reflects their emphasis on bringing in
more business to meet Wall Street's earnings expectations, banking
regulators say.

''Earnings pressure is a major issue in banking,'' said David Gibbons, head
of the credit-risk division of the OCC, which regulates nationally chartered
banks. ''I just don't think it's fair to expect banks to perform like
dot-coms.''

The $100 billion in troubled business loans makes up 5.1 percent of the
commercial loans surveyed, which were limited to loans of $20 million or
more made by three or more banks, also known as syndicated loans. The new
numbers are up from $45 billion, or 2.5 percent, in 1998. Though that is far
below the 15.9 percent in troubled commercial loans found in 1991, when bank
loan losses were at their highest level in recent memory, regulators say the
current trends are worrisome.

Banks are better capitalized than they have ever been, giving them a large
cash cushion to absorb possible losses, regulators say. But in the past
several years, as the economic boom has continued, they have already found
and made the best and safest loans, according to economists.

So now they are having to move into riskier territory to keep their loan
business growing.

''If the economy slows down abruptly,'' said Robert Litan, director of
economic studies at the Brookings Institution, a Washington research
organization, ''we could see a much sharper increase in troubled loans
because so many borrowers appear to be overextended.''




Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: a profound comment on the "transformation problem"

2000-09-21 Thread Jim Devine

At 07:19 PM 9/21/00 -0400, you wrote:
>Max Sawicky wrote:
>
>>Alert.  Alert.  Value theory thread incoming.
>>Take cover.
>
>Value theory? What's that?
>
>Doug

economists know the price everything and the value of nothing...

Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine




[fla-left] [gender issues/culture] Hey, Hollywood: What's Wrong With This Picture? (fwd)

2000-09-21 Thread Michael Hoover

forwarded by Michael Hoover

> Hey, Hollywood: What's Wrong With This Picture?
> Run Date: 09/18/00
> 
> By Jeannine Yeomans
> WEnews correspondent
> 
> In the roles they play, the shows
> and movies they direct and edit and the jobs they fill, women are both
> misrepresented and underrepresented. The numbers of key jobs and
> positive characterizations are falling. Stay turned for a November
> girl-cott.
> 
> HOLLYWOOD--The real story for women in Hollywood is more
> gloomy than glamorous. New research reveals that men still dominate all
> movie and TV jobs in vast numbers compared with women. In fact, the
> numbers of women in some key Hollywood jobs have decreased in recent
> years.
> 
> "It's as if the women's movement never happened in Hollywood," says Emmy
> winner Jan Wahl, who reviews movies for the NBC-TV affiliate in San
> Francisco. "It's a tragedy for all women."
> 
> New research by Martha Lauzen, Ph.D., a professor at San Diego State
> University, reveals that among the 207 top grossing films last year,
> women constituted only 17 percent of all creators behind the scenes,
> including producers, directors, writers, and editors.
> 
> Only 4 percent of directors were women, a drop from 8 percent the
> previous year. There were other significant declines in the numbers of
> executive producers from 21 percent to 15 percent, and female editors
> from 13 percent to 8 percent. The picture for television is similarly
> bleak.
> 
> "People think we're doing better than we are," says Robin Swicord, a
> respected film screenwriter whose credits include, "Little Women." She
> laments that women in Hollywood "have worked so hard and tried to get
> more jobs for other women, but it's discouraging that we have so far to
> go."
> 
> Stay tuned for a nationwide girl-cott against TV, movies
> 
> In November, Chicago-based Merge Magazine and the Media and Women
> Project are calling for a second annual "Girl-cott of the Movies," a
> nationwide protest against Hollywood and movies that unfairly represent
> and employ women.
> 
> "We hope to get thousands of people involved in staying away from
> bad-for-women movies," says Tamara Sobel, founder of the Media and Women
> Project. "We have to start speaking up with a single voice," Lauzen
> agrees. "If we don't, no one will."
> 
> And it's not just an issue of jobs in an industry that rakes in over $22
> billion a year.
> 
> When the numbers of women working on a movie or TV show decline, females
> are more likely to be portrayed unrealistically on screen as what Lauzen
> calls "adorable dopes." They are powerless, indecisive and childlike,
> with men at the center of their universe and a need to be rescued.
> 
> "These are the Ally McBeals and the Dharmas, just one step up from the
> classic bimbo," Lauzen says. "When women have more powerful roles in the
> making of a movie or TV show, we know that we also get more powerful
> female characters onscreen, women who are more real and more
> multi-dimensional."
> 
> Blood and sex sell big overseas--the biggest-grossing market
> 
> "Hollywood is only interested in what guys want, like old geezer movies
> and slob sex comedies where all girls are bimbos," says Wahl, a member
> of the Directors Guild who has reviewed movies for 20 years. "I've never
> seen our culture in such bad shape."
> 
> Wahl and other Hollywood observers blame the bottom line: money. They
> say a hit movie can take in most of its gross--as much as 80
> percent--overseas.
> 
> "Overseas audiences still want sex and violence. That's what sells
> outside the U.S.," says Wahl. "The whole world may have to change before
> the picture for women in Hollywood gets brighter."
> 
> "It is very hard to get movies made that are genuinely feminist, or even
> portray women in a fair way," Swicord says. "I genuinely believe there
> is a big domestic audience for this kind of movie, but if there is only
> a domestic audience, it won't get made."
> 
> Quality and realism improve with more women on the sets
> 
> Swicord and Lauzen agree that it's not a male conspiracy and it doesn't
> help to label men in Hollywood as sexists. Lauzen's research also shows
> that women who have jobs behind the scenes in Hollywood try to help
> their sisters.
> 
> "When women have power roles behind the screen, we get more women on the
> crew and we get a different kind of portrayal on screen, which is a more
> powerful female character," she says.
> 
> But women working for their side are up against a conspiracy of the
> money-hungry, whose job is to pull in the big bucks--and often the
> grosser the movie, the bigger the gross.
> 
> The TV picture appears to be just as dim.
> 
> Research released by Lauzen last week shows that in the latest primetime
> TV season, 1999-2000, women accounted for only 40 percent of all
> characters, and overall they were portrayed as being younger and less
> powerful than men. Male characters were identified more by their
> occupation, while women w

[fla-left] [labor] Florida miners strike to defend union (fwd)

2000-09-21 Thread Michael Hoover

forwarded by Michael Hoover

> >From the Militant, Oct. 2 (newspaper of the Socialist Workers Party)
> 
> Florida miners strike to defend union {pre-publication version}
> 
> BY RACHELE FRUIT
> 
> PALATKA, Florida--Workers at a surface mineral mine
> here are waging a determined fight to defend their union. The members of
> International Association of Machinists (IAM) Local 1098 have been on
> strike for two years against Iluka Resources, Inc.
> 
> They are fighting against company practices such as "threatening an
> employee with legal action for making a safety complaint to the Mine
> Safety and Health Administration," as their fact sheet explains.
> 
> On August 2, a group of workers and one farmer returning to Florida from
> an Active Workers Conference in Ohio visited the picket line. We were
> from Plant City, Land O'Lakes, St. Petersburg, and Miami. One team
> member, Rachele Fruit, was a member of IAM Local 1126 in Miami and had
> been part of an effort by unionists there to send a contribution to the
> toy fund for children of the strikers last Christmas.
> 
> The picket line is located five miles north of Bostwick, between Palatka
> and Jacksonville, with a blue school bus for a strike headquarters
> surrounded by hand-stenciled plywood signs. One of the signs says,
> "Those who thought we were down for the count will have a rude
> awakening. UNION WINS."
> 
> Strikers Dyal Bowman and Greg Looney greeted us warmly and explained
> that their strike is about defending the right of workers to a union.
> 
> Workers at the Iluka mine excavate minerals such as zircon or zirconium
> silicate and ilmanite and rutile, both sources of titanium oxide. These
> minerals are used in making tires and other essential products.
> 
> Bowman explained that "the company started splitting the workers. We
> were used to working in both places. If things were slow in one area,
> we'd go over and work in the other. We all worked together. Then they
> imposed shift work in one mill and not the other, violating seniority."
> 
> The pickets reported the company made one union employee a boss who
> reported back what happened at union meetings. Management called this
> "monitoring" union meetings. They fired the chief union steward in June
> 1997 and then wouldn't let him onto company property to meet with or
> represent union members.
> 
> The contract ended Aug. 1, 1997, and the union negotiated more than a
> year until the strike was called. Meanwhile, the company organized
> "parking lot meetings with all of the workers to explain that they were
> losing money and had to cut costs or else shut the gates," Bowman said.
> "But this place is a gold mine. They sell trainloads of minerals."
> 
> CSX engineers have honored the picket line. They bring railroad cars to
> the edge of the company property, but no further. "For the first year of
> the strike, CSX supervisors brought the trains in, but they got tired of
> it," said Bowman. "Since then, Iluka has paid $500 three times a week to
> get a scab outfit from Jacksonville to bring the trains in."
> 
> There were 78 IAM members who went on strike, but 32 crossed the line
> during the fourth week when the company started hiring replacement
> workers.
> 
> On Nov. 5, 1999, administrative law judge Howard Grossman ruled that the
> replacement workers should be fired. He ruled that union members should
> be awarded back pay and benefits with interest, as well as all the
> overtime pay the replacement workers received. The company appealed the
> ruling, and the case has been before the National Labor Relations Board
> since January.
> 
> "We've got a strong case, but it's up there in Washington and you never
> know," Looney told us. The strikers expect a ruling in September. "If
> all the workers in the country would stick together, we'd have them."




Re: RE: Re: Re: a profound comment on the"transformation problem"

2000-09-21 Thread Doug Henwood

Max Sawicky wrote:

>Alert.  Alert.  Value theory thread incoming.
>Take cover.

Value theory? What's that?

Doug




Re: Re: Re: Re: a profound comment on the "transformationproblem"

2000-09-21 Thread Jim Devine

I haven't gotten to that...

At 05:19 PM 9/21/00 -0400, you wrote:
>What about his discussion of the falling r? Does he also take a 
>single/simulataneist system approach or he mentions temporality?
>--
>
>On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:54:43   Jim Devine wrote:
> >At 04:37 PM 9/21/00 -0400, you wrote:
> >>Jim,
> >>I don't have the book yet and will not be able to get it probably for a
> >>while, so could you please comment or reproduce Andrews' discussion (main
> >>points or how his proposed solution differ or reproduces other previous
> >>solutions) of the transformation problem.
> >>
> >>Thanks,
> >>
> >>Fabian
> >
> >His main point seems to be a relatively common-sense explanation of the
> >"solution" to the "transformation problem" that Fred Moseley advocates. See
> >the latter's article in the current _Review of Radical Political Economics_
> >or in the book he edited, _Marx's Method in Capital_. It's a very simple
> >solution, basically saying that there's no problem at all, since prices and
> >values normally differ, but total prices = total value, while total
> >property income = total surplus-value.
> >
> >Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
> >
> >
>
>
>Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com

Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine




Re: Re: Re: a profound comment on the "transformationproblem"

2000-09-21 Thread Fabian Balardini

What about his discussion of the falling r? Does he also take a single/simulataneist 
system approach or he mentions temporality?  
--

On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:54:43   Jim Devine wrote:
>At 04:37 PM 9/21/00 -0400, you wrote:
>>Jim,
>>I don't have the book yet and will not be able to get it probably for a 
>>while, so could you please comment or reproduce Andrews' discussion (main 
>>points or how his proposed solution differ or reproduces other previous 
>>solutions) of the transformation problem.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Fabian
>
>His main point seems to be a relatively common-sense explanation of the 
>"solution" to the "transformation problem" that Fred Moseley advocates. See 
>the latter's article in the current _Review of Radical Political Economics_ 
>or in the book he edited, _Marx's Method in Capital_. It's a very simple 
>solution, basically saying that there's no problem at all, since prices and 
>values normally differ, but total prices = total value, while total 
>property income = total surplus-value.
>
>Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
>
>


Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com




RE: Re: Re: a profound comment on the "transformation problem"

2000-09-21 Thread Max Sawicky

At 04:37 PM 9/21/00 -0400, you wrote:
>Jim,
>I don't have the book yet and will not be able to get it probably for a 
>while, so could you please comment or reproduce Andrews' discussion (main 
>points or how his proposed solution differ or reproduces other previous 
>solutions) of the transformation problem.
>Thanks,
>Fabian

His main point seems to be a relatively common-sense explanation of the 
"solution" to the "transformation problem" . . .


Alert.  Alert.  Value theory thread incoming.
Take cover.

mbs




Humor: Newspaper Readers

2000-09-21 Thread Jim Devine

[received over the web...]

Newspaper Readers:

To help us understand whom we're dealing with . . . .

The Wall Street Journal is read by the people who run the country.

The New York Times is read by people who think they run the country.

The Washington Post is read by people who think they ought to run the country.

USA Today is read by people who think they ought to run the country but 
don't understand the Washington Post.

The Los Angeles Times is read by people who wouldn't mind running the 
country, if they could spare the time.

The Boston Globe is read by people whose parents used to run the country.

The New York Daily News is read by people who aren't too sure who's running 
the country.

The New York Post is read by people who don't care who's running the 
country, as long as they do something scandalous.

The San Francisco Chronicle is read by people who aren't sure there is a 
country, or that anyone is running it.

The Miami Herald is read by people who are running another country.

Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine




Re: Re: a profound comment on the "transformation problem"

2000-09-21 Thread Jim Devine

At 04:37 PM 9/21/00 -0400, you wrote:
>Jim,
>I don't have the book yet and will not be able to get it probably for a 
>while, so could you please comment or reproduce Andrews' discussion (main 
>points or how his proposed solution differ or reproduces other previous 
>solutions) of the transformation problem.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Fabian

His main point seems to be a relatively common-sense explanation of the 
"solution" to the "transformation problem" that Fred Moseley advocates. See 
the latter's article in the current _Review of Radical Political Economics_ 
or in the book he edited, _Marx's Method in Capital_. It's a very simple 
solution, basically saying that there's no problem at all, since prices and 
values normally differ, but total prices = total value, while total 
property income = total surplus-value.

Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine




Charlie Andrews' book

2000-09-21 Thread Charles Brown



>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/21/00 04:13PM >>>
I wrote:
>Carbon is the common substance or factor in diamonds, pure coal, and Bucky 
>balls. It is manifested in them. But we can't say that diamonds, pure 
>coal, and Bucky balls are equal to Carbon. We can't use "Carbon" as 
>short-hand for them. Rather, they are different forms of Carbon.

saith Charles:
>CB: In this analogy,  "Carbon" would be shorthand for their 
>"excahnge-Carbon" , not for diamonds, pure coal and Bucky balls. Those 
>would be differentiated by their "use-values", their concrete qualities.

I think that this is an abuse of the word "short-hand." Gregg will get angry...

((

CB: Yes, I meant shorter version of the same word. "Nickname"

((


>It is not true that as you say next Value with a capital V is partly 
>determined by exchange.

yes it is. If concrete labor does not turn out to be socially necessary, it 
doesn't produce value. For example, Marx writes that: "If the market cannot 
stomach the whole quantity [produced] at the normal price of 2 shillings a 
yard, this proves that too great a portion of the total social labour-time 
has been expended in the form of weaving. The effect is the same as if each 
individual weaver had expended more labour-time on his particularly product 
than was socially necessary." (Vintage/Penguin, p. 202.) Value must not 
only be produced but realized, as with labor expended to produce items with 
no use-value (because the makers thought that they might have use-value 
before they started producing).

((

CB: The "effect" is the same, but the value is not determined by it. The price is .  

As you say, it is the diffference between "realized" and "produced".  Exchange 
determines the realization , not production , of value.





>Price is partly determined by exchange, supply and demand. One of Marx's 
>main points is that labor is the only source of all exchange-value. ( 
>Nature can be a source of use-value, but not exchange-value.). No value is 
>added to by the exchange to exchange-value or Value of a commodity.

No value is added by exchange, but value can be destroyed. See above.

(

CB: In the above, Marx does not say that value is added by exchange.  

I'll look for a quote the opposite way, i.e. explicitly saying that value is not added 
in exchange.

)


>Disagree. See above.
>
>CB: Disagree. No Value is realized.

so, let's agree to disagree.

(

CB: Are you saying that  failure to realize value in exchange is the same thing as not 
producing value ?  I say you are mixing realization with production of value. 


(


>If a lazy or incompetent worker is competing with an abler worker, the 
>former's concrete labor-time counts as less socially-necessary abstract 
>labor-time than the latter's.

>CB: Agree.  ( Though "lazy worker" is not in the spirit that Marx writes)

To deny the existence of "lazy workers," however, is to deny reality. I 
know a few.



CB: Trouble is the bosses misuse the term.

Marx knew there were lazy workers, but didn't mention it , because the bosses mention 
it enough.


(

Writes Charles:
>You say value is something different than exhange-value .

Value and exchange-value are the same and also different. It's a matter of 
the unity of opposites. Value refers to the shared characteristics of the 
exchange-values of newly-produced commodities (i.e., socially-necessary 
abstract labor time). But they differ, because the exchange-values (prices) 
of commodities usually don't equal their values.



CB: As far as I know, Marx does not use this concept of "newly produced commodities". 
Also, exchange-value is specifically not the same as price in Marx. 





>_Capital_ deals, in the main,  with "exchange-value". There is very little 
>on use-value in it. So, rather than saying "exchange-value" everytimej, it 
>is shortened to "value", with the clarification having been made at the 
>beginning that there is also use-value in commodities.

Let's agree to disagree.

I wrote:
>No. In volume I, the value of gold is determined by the amount of 
>socially-necessary abstract labor time needed to produce it.

>CB: I agree. That's my point. If gold's value is determined like any other 
>commodity, why wouldn't an antique's value be determined like another 
>commodity. Marx doesn't say antiques' values are not determined like any 
>other commodity, does he ?   Take an old gold amulet, which is old like an 
>antique. Its value is determined by the amount of socially-necessary 
>abstract labor time to mine it and make it. Why not the same for the 
>antique ( for Marx ).?

No, Marx makes it very clear that gifts of nature such as "virgin" land 
don't have value -- but can have a price (Vintage/Penguin, p. 131). 



CB: I didn't say that gifts of nature have value, exchange value. They have use-value, 
not exchange-value. They only gain ex

Re: a profound comment on the "transformation problem"

2000-09-21 Thread Fabian Balardini

Jim,
I don't have the book yet and will not be able to get it probably for a while, so 
could you please comment or reproduce Andrews' discussion (main points or how his 
proposed solution differ or reproduces other previous solutions) of the transformation 
problem.

Thanks,

Fabian 


--

On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 12:50:22   Jim Devine wrote:
>"This section solves the puzzle about value and prices of production called 
>the transformation problem ... It is not crucial to the larger story of 
>capitalism." -- Charles Andrews, _From Capitalism to Equality_, p. 97.
>
>Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
>
>


Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com




Re: Re: Charlie Andrews' book

2000-09-21 Thread Jim Devine

I wrote:
>Carbon is the common substance or factor in diamonds, pure coal, and Bucky 
>balls. It is manifested in them. But we can't say that diamonds, pure 
>coal, and Bucky balls are equal to Carbon. We can't use "Carbon" as 
>short-hand for them. Rather, they are different forms of Carbon.

saith Charles:
>CB: In this analogy,  "Carbon" would be shorthand for their 
>"excahnge-Carbon" , not for diamonds, pure coal and Bucky balls. Those 
>would be differentiated by their "use-values", their concrete qualities.

I think that this is an abuse of the word "short-hand." Gregg will get angry...

>It is not true that as you say next Value with a capital V is partly 
>determined by exchange.

yes it is. If concrete labor does not turn out to be socially necessary, it 
doesn't produce value. For example, Marx writes that: "If the market cannot 
stomach the whole quantity [produced] at the normal price of 2 shillings a 
yard, this proves that too great a portion of the total social labour-time 
has been expended in the form of weaving. The effect is the same as if each 
individual weaver had expended more labour-time on his particularly product 
than was socially necessary." (Vintage/Penguin, p. 202.) Value must not 
only be produced but realized, as with labor expended to produce items with 
no use-value (because the makers thought that they might have use-value 
before they started producing).

>Price is partly determined by exchange, supply and demand. One of Marx's 
>main points is that labor is the only source of all exchange-value. ( 
>Nature can be a source of use-value, but not exchange-value.). No value is 
>added to by the exchange to exchange-value or Value of a commodity.

No value is added by exchange, but value can be destroyed. See above.

>Disagree. See above.
>
>CB: Disagree. No Value is realized.

so, let's agree to disagree.

>If a lazy or incompetent worker is competing with an abler worker, the 
>former's concrete labor-time counts as less socially-necessary abstract 
>labor-time than the latter's.

>CB: Agree.  ( Though "lazy worker" is not in the spirit that Marx writes)

To deny the existence of "lazy workers," however, is to deny reality. I 
know a few.

Writes Charles:
>You say value is something different than exhange-value .

Value and exchange-value are the same and also different. It's a matter of 
the unity of opposites. Value refers to the shared characteristics of the 
exchange-values of newly-produced commodities (i.e., socially-necessary 
abstract labor time). But they differ, because the exchange-values (prices) 
of commodities usually don't equal their values.

>_Capital_ deals, in the main,  with "exchange-value". There is very little 
>on use-value in it. So, rather than saying "exchange-value" everytimej, it 
>is shortened to "value", with the clarification having been made at the 
>beginning that there is also use-value in commodities.

Let's agree to disagree.

I wrote:
>No. In volume I, the value of gold is determined by the amount of 
>socially-necessary abstract labor time needed to produce it.

>CB: I agree. That's my point. If gold's value is determined like any other 
>commodity, why wouldn't an antique's value be determined like another 
>commodity. Marx doesn't say antiques' values are not determined like any 
>other commodity, does he ?   Take an old gold amulet, which is old like an 
>antique. Its value is determined by the amount of socially-necessary 
>abstract labor time to mine it and make it. Why not the same for the 
>antique ( for Marx ).?

No, Marx makes it very clear that gifts of nature such as "virgin" land 
don't have value -- but can have a price (Vintage/Penguin, p. 131). 
Antiques seen from the perspective of today are similar. You might think of 
the amount of labor-time needed to reproduce the antique as defining its 
value. But part of the antique's price is the ageing process itself, a gift 
of nature, which makes it impossible to truly reproduce the antique 
exactly. Put another way, the age of the antique means that its scarcity 
(as opposed to the cost of its production) plays a major role in 
determining its price.

Nowadays, gold is similar. Most of the supply-side of the gold market 
depends on the existing stock of gold, not on the cost of producing gold. 
In the end, however, if the price of gold stays high relative to its cost 
of production, it will drive capitalists to produce more gold. But even 
this is limited by the scarcity of good gold-bearing land.

>CB: I take it as fundamental to Marx's theory that exploitation occurs 
>when labor-power is paid full value for.  Labor-power is capable of 
>producing more value than its own value ( exhange-value).

insert the word "even" before "when labor-power is paid full value" (for 
its reproduction). Marx knew that labor-power was sometimes purchased below 
its value, but that kind of  "super-exploitation" didn't require much 
analysis.

Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmi

a profound comment on the "transformation problem"

2000-09-21 Thread Jim Devine

"This section solves the puzzle about value and prices of production called 
the transformation problem ... It is not crucial to the larger story of 
capitalism." -- Charles Andrews, _From Capitalism to Equality_, p. 97.

Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine




Wealth Gap Increases in Canada

2000-09-21 Thread Ken Hanly

Although there is supposedly a frantic search for the causes of wealth
inequality there is little mention of  private ownership of the means of
production and production for profit as a cause. One commentator does
mention unfettered capitalism. A few more fetters and everything will be
fine. There is no longer an alternative to capitalism for some reason.
Interesting that over 80 percent of Canadians think the government should
act to lessen the gap between rich and poor even though media pundits
continually claim that Canadians are becoming more right-wing etc.

Cheers, Ken Hanly


Macleans Magazine August 28, 2000

The Wealth Gap

New studies show Canada's rich really are getting richer -- and the
poor poorer -- as the middle class erodes

In hindsight, it seems almost inevitable that 32-year-old Caroll Herron
toppled, ever so slowly, to the bottom of the economic heap. A feisty high
school graduate, the Montreal single mother lost her last secretarial job
with a
shipping firm in 1992 when the company went bankrupt. After 18 months of
hunting for another office position, she finally settled for work as a
cleaner
with a company that restores fire-damaged premises. She quit last March
when she developed serious asthma because of the chemicals. Now she and
her daughter Christina, 10, subsist on Employment Insurance and other
government payments -- about $1,250 per month -- while she pleads with
potential employers and government bureaucrats for training. "I have
bilingualism," she says. "I have the secretarial skills. But I just don't
have
the computer skills."
Her downward spiral, struggling all the way, traces a path that many
Canadians have followed throughout the 1990s: the poor are becoming
relatively poorer, the wealthy are becoming wealthier -- and many in that
bulwark of society, the middle class, are watching their incomes and their
dreams of upward mobility gradually erode. Since the early 1980s, middle-
class families have pocketed an ever-smaller proportion of the nation's
incomes. Their children are often starting work at progressively lower
salary
levels. Worse, males in their prime earning years are finding that their
chances of advancing are shrinking with every passing year. The workforce
is bunching into both the lower and the higher ends of the income scale.
Many workers who were once proud members of the middle class are now
barely making ends meet.
Herron's own experience tracks that arc of descent. When she worked for
the shipping company, she earned a relatively comfortable $25,000 a year. At
the cleaning company, her wages were $20,300. Now her government
cheques add up to about $15,000 per year. Her expenses include rent of
$300 per month for her duplex, $400 for food and $250 for heat and
utilities.
And her EI ends in mid-December. "We eat a lot of hamburger and
spaghetti," she says. "You wake up in the morning hoping there is no bill in
the mail." Herron blames herself. "Now that I am older and wiser, I see
that I
should have gone further in school," she says ruefully. "I am not envious of
those who make more: they did things to make their life better. I just want
a
chance." It is the disturbing secret of today's economy that chances for
people like Herron are becoming harder and harder to find. Across many
industrialized nations, such as the United States and Britain, the gulf
between
the wealthy and everyone else has been widening relentlessly throughout the
past two decades. Experts had speculated that the trend was largely
cyclical -
- and the gap would narrow in the late 1990s when the economy finally
improved. Their hopes have been dashed. After adjusting for inflation, the
1998 average income of Canadian families from earnings, investments and
private pensions finally surpassed its previous peak in 1989: it hit
$55,224, up
from $54,508. But, amid the prosperity, there was a startling increase in
inequality -- as the wealthy increased their share of that income at the
expense of almost everyone else. "There is a long-run, ongoing trend toward
increasing inequality," observes Queen's University economist Charles
Beach. "I am saddened. Sure, there is a bigger pie -- but it is being
distributed less equally."
The problem is so worrisome that, behind the scenes, income inequality
has become the big issue in government and academic circles. No one can
agree on the cause -- because there are many factors, ranging from
technological change to declining union membership. No one can agree on
the solution -- because everyone is uneasily aware that many people like
Herron need complex responses that include both money and targeted
training. But, after the release in June of a Statistics Canada report on
1998
incomes, everyone can agree the problem is unsettling -- and probably
growing.
The agency's report is stark. It divides the number of Canadian families
and unattached individuals who receive income into five equal groups.
Among the 8.3 million Canadian families, the top fifth was 

RE: The simple/elementary form of value considered as a whole (wasRe: Charlie Andrew's book)

2000-09-21 Thread Timework Web

Mat Forstater wrote,

>I don't see either one as short-hand for the other. Exchange-value is the
>expression of value.

Correct. However, Marx _used_ exchange-value as an abbreviation, _said_ he
had used it as an abbreviation but then pointed out that, strictly
speaking, it was wrong to do so. I suspect we're entering into
the paradoxical aspect of Marx's rhetoric in which he allows an error to
stand, provisionally, until such time as he had developed the argument far
enough to enable him to "remove the scaffolding". I think I understand the
reasons for doing this and would concur with Marx's rhetorical judgement,
as puzzling as it may seem from OUR perspective.


Tom Walker
Sandwichman and Deconsultant
215-2273




Re: The simple/elementary form of value . . .

2000-09-21 Thread Charles Brown



>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/21/00 12:22PM >>>
Charles Brown wrote,

>Though most of the book "value" is used. But "value" can be used to refer
>to "use-value" too.   Value in the sense of "wealth" is in the form of
>commodities, and commodities are bundles of exchange-value and use-value.

Remember, though, "A commodity appears at first sight an extremely
obvious, trivial thing . . . so far as it is a use-value there is nothing
mysterious about it . . . [j]ust as little does [this mystical character] 
proceed from the nature of the determinants of value [the expenditure of
labour power] . . ."

"Whence, then, arises the enigmatic character of the product of labour, as
soon as it assumes the form of a commodity? . . . The mysterious character
of the commodity-form consists therefore simply in the fact that the
commodity *reflects* the social characteristics of men's own labour as
objective characteristics of the products of labour themselves, as the
socio-natural properties of these things."

Yes, then, exchange-value expresses value but it does so in an "inverted",
"mysterious" form -- as a relationship between things (e.g., linen and
coats) rather than as the relationship between people -- the weaver and
the tailor -- that it fundamentally is.



CB: I agree with this, but in this first Chapter, Marx is dispelling the mystery. 
After you read it , value shouldn't be so mysterious in any of its forms.  We get a 
clear picture of use-value and exchange=-value as concrete labor and  abstract labor , 
a unity and struggle of opposites bundled up in a commodity. A commodity is the unity 
of two contradictory forms of labor.  Commodities are exchanged based on the 
commensurability of the abstract labor embodied in them , not on the basis of 
comparison of the concrete labor embodied in them. 

The mystery exists for those who don't read this Chapter, that is most people.

(



Elsewhere (e.g. in the Grundrisse and in the Critique of Political
Economy), Marx makes a fundamental distinction between "value", which is a
characteristic of the commodity form and "wealth", which is not. That
distinction is so crucial that I'll have to reserve comment on it until
I have a bit more time to elaborate.

(

CB: Agree. In the societies in which the capitalist mode of production prevails, 
wealth presents itself as an immense accumulation of commodities, which consist of 
exchange-value ( "value") and use-value.  

Other socieities (non-capitalist) have a lot of non-commodity forms of wealth. Their 
use-values are mostly not bundled together with exchange-value in commodities. 
Commodities are mostly exchanged BETWEEN societies, around the edges and borders of 
socieities. Most production is for use, not exchange, in these pre-capitalist 
societies, so their wealth is in a different form.




Re: The simple/elementary form of value . . .

2000-09-21 Thread Timework Web

Charles Brown wrote,

>Though most of the book "value" is used. But "value" can be used to refer
>to "use-value" too.   Value in the sense of "wealth" is in the form of
>commodities, and commodities are bundles of exchange-value and use-value.

Remember, though, "A commodity appears at first sight an extremely
obvious, trivial thing . . . so far as it is a use-value there is nothing
mysterious about it . . . [j]ust as little does [this mystical character] 
proceed from the nature of the determinants of value [the expenditure of
labour power] . . ."

"Whence, then, arises the enigmatic character of the product of labour, as
soon as it assumes the form of a commodity? . . . The mysterious character
of the commodity-form consists therefore simply in the fact that the
commodity *reflects* the social characteristics of men's own labour as
objective characteristics of the products of labour themselves, as the
socio-natural properties of these things."

Yes, then, exchange-value expresses value but it does so in an "inverted",
"mysterious" form -- as a relationship between things (e.g., linen and
coats) rather than as the relationship between people -- the weaver and
the tailor -- that it fundamentally is.

Elsewhere (e.g. in the Grundrisse and in the Critique of Political
Economy), Marx makes a fundamental distinction between "value", which is a
characteristic of the commodity form and "wealth", which is not. That
distinction is so crucial that I'll have to reserve comment on it until
I have a bit more time to elaborate.


Tom Walker
Sandwichman and Deconsultant
215-2273




RE: RE: The simple/elementary form of value considered as a whole (was Re: Charlie Andrew's book)

2000-09-21 Thread Lisa & Ian Murray



 "...the common substance that manifests itself in the exchange-value of
 commodities, whenever they are exchanged, is their value.  The
 progress of our
 investigation will show that exchange-value is the only form in
 which the value
 of commodities can manifest itself or be expressed.  For the
 present, however,
 we have to consider the nature of value independently of this, its form."
 (_Capital_, Vol. 1, International, 1967, p. 46).

 I don't see either one as short-hand for the other. Exchange-value is the
 expression of value.

 I remember Shaikh's T.A., Salim Khan, had a quote from Descartes
 about candles
 and wax that was a good analogy for the relation between value
 and exchange
 value (and use-value?).  Anybody know if Marx used this and/or
 what the quote is
 or where it's from?


Well, they flubbed because the quote above is pure Aristotle and Descartes
was into an Augustinian/Neoplatonist approach. Labor ain't a substance,
neither is value.

Ian






RE: The simple/elementary form of value considered as a whole (was Re: Charlie Andrew's book)

2000-09-21 Thread Forstater, Mathew

"...the common substance that manifests itself in the exchange-value of
commodities, whenever they are exchanged, is their value.  The progress of our
investigation will show that exchange-value is the only form in which the value
of commodities can manifest itself or be expressed.  For the present, however,
we have to consider the nature of value independently of this, its form."
(_Capital_, Vol. 1, International, 1967, p. 46).

I don't see either one as short-hand for the other. Exchange-value is the
expression of value.

I remember Shaikh's T.A., Salim Khan, had a quote from Descartes about candles
and wax that was a good analogy for the relation between value and exchange
value (and use-value?).  Anybody know if Marx used this and/or what the quote is
or where it's from?


-Original Message-
From: Timework Web [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 9:54 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PEN-L:2122] The simple/elementary form of value considered as
a whole (was Re: Charlie Andrew's book)


Originally, Charles Brown (CB) wrote:
> >CB:  Do you happen to recall where Marx makes the distinction between
> >"exchange value" and "value" ?  I thought "value" was shorthand for
> >"exchange value" in _Capital_.   

Jim Devine suggested a passage on page 128 (vintage) 38 (progress). The
explicit distinction is on page 152/66. Marx is clear in stating that
value and its magnitude DO NOT originate in exchange value, they are
"expressed" in exchange value. He also apologizes for misleading
the reader at the beginning of the chapter by saying that "a commodity is
a use-value and an exchange-value" but he excuses the abbreviation as
harmless ONCE WE KNOW the subtle distinction between value, which is
embodied in the commodity, and exchange-value, which is manifested only in
a relationship with a second commodity of a different kind.

Rather than value being a shorthand for exchange-value, Marx used
exchange-value as a shorthand for value!


Tom Walker
Sandwichman and Deconsultant
215-2273




The simple/elementary form of value considered asa whole (was Re:Charlie Andrew's book)

2000-09-21 Thread Charles Brown



>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/21/00 10:54AM >>>
Originally, Charles Brown (CB) wrote:
> >CB:  Do you happen to recall where Marx makes the distinction between
> >"exchange value" and "value" ?  I thought "value" was shorthand for
> >"exchange value" in _Capital_.   

Jim Devine suggested a passage on page 128 (vintage) 38 (progress). The
explicit distinction is on page 152/66. Marx is clear in stating that
value and its magnitude DO NOT originate in exchange value, they are
"expressed" in exchange value. 

(((

CB: Agree. Value and its magnitude originate in LABOR, abstract labour.
((


He also apologizes for misleading
the reader at the beginning of the chapter by saying that "a commodity is
a use-value and an exchange-value" but he excuses the abbreviation as
harmless ONCE WE KNOW the subtle distinction between value, which is
embodied in the commodity, and exchange-value, which is manifested only in
a relationship with a second commodity of a different kind.

(((

CB: Agree. Throughout most of the text of _Capital_, "value" is shorthand for 
exchange-value, after the initial definition regarding exchange-value and use-value is 
made.  Most of _Capital_ is a discussion of exchange-value , not use-value.

)



Rather than value being a shorthand for exchange-value, Marx used
exchange-value as a shorthand for value!

(

CB: Sort of , except it would be "exchange-value" is LONGhand for "value". 

 Though most of the book "value" is used. But "value" can be used to refer to 
"use-value" too.   Value in the sense of "wealth" is in the form of commodities, and 
commodities are bundles of exchange-value and use-value. 






Value: paragraphs quoted from Capital

2000-09-21 Thread Timework Web

Below are the paragraphs I referred to, clipped from the online text,
which is the 1887 English edition. Note the fourth sentence, which begins
"In other words", the Vintage translation puts it a bit differently and, I
think, brings out the distinction -- and emphasizes its importance -- more
clearly: "In other words, the value of a commodity is independently
expressed through its presentation [Darstellung] as 'exchange-value'."

That passage is a precursor for the deconstructive earthquake
that Marx unleashes in the final section of Chapter One, on the Fetishism
of the Commodity. Value _appears_ to be a relationship between things
because it is _presented_ in the form of exchange-value. But this is an
upside-down appearance: the table "not only stands with its feet on
the ground, but, in relation to all other commodities, it stands on its
head, and evolves out of its wooden brain grotesque ideas, far more
wonderful than if it were to begin dancing of its own free will."

4. The Elementary Form of value considered as a whole

   The elementary form of value of a commodity is contained in the
   equation, expressing its value-relation to another commodity of a
   different kind, or in its exchange-relation to the-same. The value of
   commodity A, is qualitatively expressed, by the fact that commodity B
   is directly exchangeable with it. Its value is quantitatively
   expressed by the fact, that a definite quantity of B is exchangeable
   with a definite quantity of A. In other words, the value of a
   commodity obtains independent and definite expression, by taking the
   form of exchange-value. When, at the beginning of this chapter, we
   said, in common parlance, that a commodity is both a use-value and an
   exchange-value, we were, accurately speaking, wrong. A commodity is a
   use-value or object of utility, and a value. It manifests itself as
   this two-fold thing, that it is, as soon as its value assumes an
   independent form -- viz., the form of exchange-value. It never assumes
   this form when isolated, but only when placed in a value or exchange
   relation with another commodity of a different kind. When once we know
   this, such a mode of expression does no harm; it simply serves as an
   abbreviation.   

   Our analysis has shown, that the form or expression of the value of a
   commodity originates in the nature of value, and not that value and
   its magnitude originate in the mode of their expression as
   exchange-value. This, however, is the delusion as well of the
   mercantilists and their recent revivers, Ferrier, Ganilh, [43][23] and
   others, as also of their antipodes, the modern bagmen of Free-trade,
   such as Bastiat. The mercantilists lay special stress on the
   qualitative aspect of the expression of value, and consequently on the
   equivalent form of commodities, which attains its full perfection in
   money. The modern hawkers of Free-trade, who must get rid of their
   article at any price, on the other hand, lay most stress on the
   quantitative aspect of the relative form of value. For them there
   consequently exists neither value, nor magnitude of value, anywhere
   except in its expression by means of the exchange relation of
   commodities, that is, in the daily list of prices current. Macleod,
   who has taken upon himself to dress up the confused ideas of Lombard
   Street in the most learned finery, is a successful cross between the
   superstitious mercantilists, and the enlightened Free-trade bagmen. 


Tom Walker
Sandwichman and Deconsultant
215-2273




Re: Charlie Andrews' book

2000-09-21 Thread Charles Brown



>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/20/00 05:38PM >>>
Originally, Charles Brown (CB) wrote:
> >CB:  Do you happen to recall where Marx makes the distinction between
> >"exchange value" and "value" ?  I thought "value" was shorthand for
> >"exchange value" in _Capital_.

I wrote:
>For example, in the first section of ch. 1 of vol. 1, Marx writes that 
>"if  we abstract from their value, there remains their value... The common 
>factor in the exchange relation, or in the exchange-value of the 
>commodity, is therefore its value." (Vintage/Penguin ed., p. 128)

>CB: Mine says:
>"We have seen that when commodities are exchanged, their exchange-value 
>manifests itself as something totally independent of their use-value. But 
>if we abstract from their use-value, there remains their Value as defined 
>above. Therefore, the common substance that manifests itself in the 
>exchange-value of commodities, whenever they are exchanged, is their 
>value. " (International, 1967) page 38).
>
>"Value" with a capital "V" is defined as exchange, not use, value in the 
>"above" section referred to in the text.

This is the same quote but from a different translation. In general, I find 
the Vintage/Penguin translation to be better. (I can't read German, but Ben 
Fowkes has an excellent reputation and learned from previous translators.) 
But the conclusion is the same. Value is "the common substance" that does 
not _equal_ exchange-value but instead is _manifested in_ exchange-values.

Carbon is the common substance or factor in diamonds, pure coal, and Bucky 
balls. It is manifested in them. But we can't say that diamonds, pure coal, 
and Bucky balls are equal to Carbon. We can't use "Carbon" as short-hand 
for them. Rather, they are different forms of Carbon.

((

CB: In this analogy,  "Carbon" would be shorthand for their "excahnge-Carbon" , not 
for diamonds, pure coal and Bucky balls. Those would be differentiated by their 
"use-values", their concrete qualities.

The Value of the commodity has no other manifestation but as exchange-value and forms 
of exchange-value , such as capital. 

It is not true that as you say next Value with a capital V is partly determined by 
exchange. Price is partly determined by exchange, supply and demand. One of Marx's 
main points is that labor is the only source of all exchange-value. ( Nature can be a 
source of use-value, but not exchange-value.). No value is added to by the exchange to 
exchange-value or Value of a commodity.

(

It is true that Value with a capital V is partly determined by exchange. 




Disagree. See above.



If 
a product can't sell, no Value is produced.

((

CB: Disagree. No Value is realized.







 If a lazy or incompetent worker 
is competing with an abler worker, the former's concrete labor-time counts 
as less socially-necessary abstract labor-time than the latter's.

((

CB: Agree.  ( Though "lazy worker" is not in the spirit that Marx writes)
(



As far as I can tell, the capitalization or non-capitalization of Value in 
the International Publishers edition has no meaning.



CB:  It is only capitalized at the point of the quote you mentioned. It isn't 
capitalized throughout the text. I take it as a way of signalling exactly the issue we 
are discussing, drawing our attention to it so it is clear throughout the rest of the 
text.




 It's a lack of 
consistency in the printing. I know that Marx never makes a big thing about 
"value" vs. "Value."



CB: See above. International does not capitalize it throughout the text. Probably Marx 
only  capitalized in the spot we are discussing to draw attention to the fundamental 
distinction that is being made.

(((



I wrote:
>Part of my confusion in reading CAPITAL was that I assumed that "value" 
>was short-hand for "exchange value." But it's pretty clear  that "value" 
>is instead the shared characteristic ("common factor") of all 
>newly-produced commodities, whereas all goods for sale, including those 
>that aren't newly produced, have exchange-value (or price). It's a big 
>mistake to confuse the "essence" (shared characteristic, common factor) of 
>something like a commodity (its value) with its "existence," its 
>phenomenal form (its exchange-value or price). To do so is to assume that 
>all goods are the same, to ignore the heterogeneity of commodities, their 
>use-values.

>CB: See above. Value is exchange-value, not use-value, still in my 
>translation.

see the above.

>CB: We don't need the third term you introduce to keep the distinction 
>between exchange-value and use-value.

I didn't say that Value was use-value. Nor did Marx.

))

CB: Nor did I. I said it is exchange-value. Nor did I say you or Marx said it is 
use-value.  I say you introduce a thrid term besides exchange-value (value ,Value, in 
the one  spot in the text only) and use-value.  

You say value is something diff

BLS Daily Report

2000-09-21 Thread Richardson_D

> BLS DAILY REPORT, WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 20, 2000:
> 
> Today's News Release:  EXTENDED MASS LAYOFFS IN THE SECOND QUARTER OF 2000
> indicates that in the second quarter of 2000 there were 1,187 mass layoff
> actions by employers that resulted in the separation of 227,114 workers
> from their jobs for more than 30 days, according to preliminary figures.
> Both the number of layoff events and the number of separations were
> sharply lower than in April-June 1999, with events and separations at
> their lowest level for any April-June period since the resumption of the
> Mass Layoff Statistics Program in April 1995.
> 
> Unemployment rates stayed at record low levels in most states during
> August, as strong payroll job growth continued, according to figures from
> BLS.  August marked the second time since 1978 that jobless rates were
> below 6 percent in all 50 states and the District of Columbia, the agency
> says (Daily Labor Report, page D-5).
> 
> Construction of new homes and apartments edged ahead 0.3 percent in
> August, with increased construction of single family homes outpacing a
> sharp decline in multifamily starts, the Commerce Department reports.
> August's start rate was a bit weaker than the 1.547 million a year pace
> forecast by the panel of economists polled September 15 by Macroeconomics
> Advisers in St. Louis.  It trailed 3 straight months of declining activity
> (Daily Labor Report, page D-1).
> __Housing construction rose in August for the first time in 4 months.
> Starts on single-family houses increased as mortgage rates declined (The
> Washington Post, page E1).
> __Construction of new homes increased in August for the first time in 4
> months, as lower mortgage rates renewed interest from buyers (Bloomberg
> News, The New York Times, page C2).
> __Construction of new homes rebounded modestly last month after a 3-month
> decline, but the housing market remained cool compared with its peak
> earlier this year (The Wall Street Journal, page A2.  The Journal's page 1
> graph is of housing starts, 1998 to the present).
> 
> The world economy has continued to strengthen and will grow 4.7 percent
> this year, with the U.S. economy advancing a robust 5.2 percent, the
> International Monetary Fund predicts. The IMF's forecast for the global
> economy is 0.5 percentage point higher than predicted last April, while
> the U.S. forecast is nearly a percentage point higher (Daily Labor Report,
> page A-2).
> 
> A World Bank report on global poverty says 1.2 billion people still live
> on $1 a day or less, says Robert J. Samuelson, with the comment that
> "outside East Asia, little progress occurred in the past decade" (The
> Washington Post, op.ed. page, page A33). 
> 
> Improved response from many minority communities helped fuel a turnaround
> in census response, said Census Bureau Director Kenneth Prewitt in
> announcing that a higher share of households returned their questionnaires
> this year than in 1990.  Prewitt said 67 percent of U.S. households
> returned census forms, whether by mail, over the Internet, or via forms
> distributed at community centers.  That was up from 65 percent a decade
> earlier.  In April, census officials had said the return had equaled the
> 1990 rate (The Washington Post, page A12).
> __A higher percentage of households completed and returned census forms
> this year than in 1990, reversing a 3-decade trend away from participation
> in the national population count, census officials said today.  The
> officials said 67 percent of the 120 million households that received a
> form in the mail, filled it out and sent it back, compared with the 65
> percent that returned the forms 10 years ago.  Census Bureau figures that
> 29 states raised their response rates from 1999, with five states --
> California, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Nevada and Wyoming -- lifting
> rates by 5 percentage points (The New York Times, page A23).
> 
> President Clinton yesterday signed into law a bill that extends long-term
> care insurance for 13 million federal employees, members of the military
> and their families.  The employees will pay the premiums, but because of
> the size of the group, rates are expected to be 15 to 20 percent below the
> cost of individual long-term care policies (The Washington Post, page
> A31).
> 
> Despite all the talk about prosperity in this digital age, tax return data
> indicates that the rising tide of bits and bytes is lifting the yachts
> much more than the rowboats.  From 1986 through 1997, the latest year for
> which detailed figures are available from the Internal Revenue Service,
> the average income of the richest 1 percent of Americans soared 89
> percent, to $517,713 from $273,562.  Those figures are after federal
> income taxes have been paid, and are expressed in constant 1997 dollars to
> eliminate the effects of inflation.  To be counted among the top 1 percent
> in 1997 required an after-tax income of at least $268,889, suggesting a

Re: The simple/elementary form of value considered as a whole (was Re: Charlie Andrew's book)

2000-09-21 Thread Jim Devine


>Jim Devine suggested a passage on page 128 (vintage) 38 (progress). The
>explicit distinction is on page 152/66. Marx is clear in stating that
>value and its magnitude DO NOT originate in exchange value, they are
>"expressed" in exchange value.

Tom, could you give the full quote?

Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine




The simple/elementary form of value considered as a whole (was Re:Charlie Andrew's book)

2000-09-21 Thread Timework Web

Originally, Charles Brown (CB) wrote:
> >CB:  Do you happen to recall where Marx makes the distinction between
> >"exchange value" and "value" ?  I thought "value" was shorthand for
> >"exchange value" in _Capital_.   

Jim Devine suggested a passage on page 128 (vintage) 38 (progress). The
explicit distinction is on page 152/66. Marx is clear in stating that
value and its magnitude DO NOT originate in exchange value, they are
"expressed" in exchange value. He also apologizes for misleading
the reader at the beginning of the chapter by saying that "a commodity is
a use-value and an exchange-value" but he excuses the abbreviation as
harmless ONCE WE KNOW the subtle distinction between value, which is
embodied in the commodity, and exchange-value, which is manifested only in
a relationship with a second commodity of a different kind.

Rather than value being a shorthand for exchange-value, Marx used
exchange-value as a shorthand for value!


Tom Walker
Sandwichman and Deconsultant
215-2273




Re: Interesting article on World Bank

2000-09-21 Thread Doug Henwood

Ken Hanly wrote:

>I thought that the Summers' memo was supposed to have been written by
>someone else and generous Lawrence bravely accepted the fallout from it. In
>a discussion on Pen-L a while ago someone advanced this viewpoint. Now we
>have a different story from the horse's mouth or is it more hot air from the
>jackasses' behind?

The memo was written by Lant Pritchett, though Summers signed it and 
took the public heat for it. Not, of course, that it damaged his 
career any. When I did my impromptu interview with him, I didn't want 
to give him an out by acknowledging the ghost authorship.

Gratuitous ad hominem note: the way Summers ogles women gives lust a bad name.

Doug




Re: Prostitution, Disease, and Race (was Fall of Communism sparksjob growth)

2000-09-21 Thread Timework Web

I wrote:

>>There is an immaculate conception between this topic and the "Market as
>>God" thread.

Jo wrote:
   
>Yeah?  And who emerges from the spotless sheets?  You positing a saviour
>of some sort, Sandwichman?

Don't you mean:

   And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
   Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?  


Tom Walker
Sandwichman and Deconsultant
215-2273




Re: Malaysian exchange controls

2000-09-21 Thread Brad DeLong

>Can anyone refer me to material that details what actions Malaysia took in the
>1997 financial crisis, and analyses the results?
>
>Bill Rosenberg

There's a little bit on it in:

http://www.kc.frb.org/PUBLICAT/SYMPOS/2000/krugman.pdf
-- 
J. Bradford DeLong
Professor of Economics, U.C. Berkeley
601 Evans Hall, #3880
Berkeley, CA 94720-3880
(510) 643-4027 voice
(510) 642-6615 fax
http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




Consumerism

2000-09-21 Thread Louis Proyect

Village Voice Book Supplement

BUYING UNHAPPINESS
REVIEW BY RICK PERLSTEIN

Do Americans Shop Too Much?
By Juliet B. Schor et al. 
Beacon, 102 pp., $12 paper

The Consumer Society Reader
Edited by Juliet B. Schor and Douglas B. Holt
New Press, 502 pp., $22.95

We all know the catechism. America is cradled within the longest
uninterrupted-uninterruptible!-economic boom in history. Stock prices mint
fortunes at the speed of a mouse click. Billionaires live next door. Yak
herders carry Palm Pilots. And so on, et cetera, ad nauseam. 
Just how far, I wonder, can our pundits drift from an accurate picture of
reality without melting from shame? It's not that growth in the aggregate
economy is not real, not startling. But as social analysis, to say only
that is to build a stool missing two legs. Pay attention long enough to
mainstream media and you can catch an occasional glimpse of the stool's
first absent strut: the exponentially growing levels of economic inequality
since the early '70s. But you can look forever and not find a single
mention of the second. It is America's new problem that has no name: our
unhappiness epidemic. 

Social scientists have been confirming it again and again in recent
studies. Two sociologists examining the accuracy of the Generation X
stereotype stumbled upon the fact that not only are people in their
twenties more listless, cynical, and morose than kids in past decades-so
are people of all ages. One economist demonstrated a steady decrease in the
amount of Americans who report themselves to be "very happy" since the end
of World War II, inversely proportional to the nation's ever increasing
gross national product. Others show how that trend has accelerated since
inequality began growing in the '70s. 

As with most social phenomena that don't fit into the story the media
megacorporations and their ilk tell us, it helps to go to academia for your
corrective. And these days, the best place to start is the work of Harvard
economist Juliet Schor. The broader public first became aware of Schor
through her 1992 bestseller, The Overworked American, which argued-with a
force great enough, according to some, to inspire the Family Leave Act of
1993-that the average American now works a full month longer per year than
the American of 1969. Her 1998 book, The Overspent American, was something
like a prequel. It sought to explain how the nation allowed itself to get
to this pass in the first place: It's all those bills we have to pay. 
The heart of that argument is distilled, and argued over by 12 other
prominent scholars of consumerism, in the excellent new paperback Do
Americans Shop Too Much? (part of a series put out by the MIT-based
policy-and-culture bimonthly the Boston Review, a gem among little
magazines). In Schor's view, what is new about our economy is not so much
the riches it delivers as the aspirations it enforces. For as long as there
have been Joneses, Americans have looked to their neighbors for reference
on what a house should look like and what it should be stuffed with. Now,
however, our references come not so much from the Joneses as from the likes
of those wacky kids on Friends with the 4200-square-foot Manhattan
apartment. She calls this the New Consumerism. 

Think of the New Consumerism as a system of taxation-an extra measure of
money we're compelled to spend just to stay on an even keel. Because even
the most saintly among us derive a proportion of our well-being from our
relative position in the status pecking order, when the stock-optioned
class ups the consumption ante, most of us cannot but feel pressured, in
our own pathetic little ways, to keep up. It is also like a tax in a more
literal sense. If you want your child to have an above-average education,
you need to buy a house in an above-average neighborhood-which now means
moving into a place that looks like only above-above-above-average
neighborhoods did a decade ago. And if you want to have an
above-average-sized car to stay safe on the road, you need to buy a tank
(excuse me, I mean SUV). 

Think of treadmills. Think of Sisyphus rolling that big rock up the hill.
Think of being trapped in that garbage-compactor room in Star Wars. The
American savings rate has gone from 8 percent in 1980 to 4 percent in 1990
to less than zero percent now. Typical unpaid credit card balances are
$7000 per household (though people always estimate theirs as much lower);
to help matters, credit companies send out some 2.5 billion solicitations a
year. Bankruptcies are up from 200,000 in 1980 to over 1.5 million now. No
wonder people are unhappy. 

Critics, of course, have had interesting things to say about the growth of
commodification and its effect on human life in an unbroken tradition
dating back to the 19th century, and some of the best examples are
available in another new book from Schor, coedited with Douglas Holt, The
Consumer Society Reader. The benchmarks make the book worth buying: Marx on
commodity fetishism; Vebl

Malaysian exchange controls

2000-09-21 Thread Bill Rosenberg

Can anyone refer me to material that details what actions Malaysia took in the
1997 financial crisis, and analyses the results?

Bill Rosenberg




Re: Re: Prostitution, Disease, and Race (was Fall of Communism sparks job growth)

2000-09-21 Thread Joanna Sheldon

Yeah?  And who emerges from the spotless sheets?  You positing a saviour of
some sort, Sandwichman?

Jo


At 13:18 21-09-00 , you wrote:
>There is an immaculate conception between this topic and the "Market as
>God" thread. 
>
>
>Tom Walker
>Sandwichman and Deconsultant
>215-2273
>