Re: Fidel Castro on unequal exchange
Why does there have to be a suffering contest? What is worst than child abuse? Why? Joanna Jurriaan Bendien wrote: There are forms of abuse that are a lot worse than child abuse. J.
Re: Fidel Castro on unequal exchange
--- Grant Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Regarding child abuse in pre-modern societies, I think we often tend to see in such societies the things that we want to see, i.e. noble savages. And what is considered abuse in one society may be a social norm or even an obligation in another society. Infanticide, genital multilation, incest, child marriage and many other things we consider distasteful are still common in many parts of the world and have their origins in venerable tradition /or _practice_. regards, Grant. * I think that there is room for a lot of improvement on the issue child rearing. All the societies which I know of, contain an element of hierarchical power, even the preliterate, classless ones. Non-democratic hierarchical power is always abusive as far as I'm concerned. As Marx remarked somewhere, the first division of this kind of power relation was between men and women--pre-existing class society. On reflection, I thought that I would include children in this dynamic, ergo that reflection which got this whole thread started. To be sure, I think that there has been some improvement on this issue over the centuries along with piles of abuse and to the degree that humans have been abused, they have become mean spirited--are you listening Ebenezer? There seems to be greater recognition today that abused children tend to grow into becoming abusive parents/adults themselves. It seems to me to be a conservative cycle which has the effect of putting a psychological stopper on the social revolution. Of course, if all imposed, hierarchical power tends to breed abusive social relations, then capitalism has a moral problem and becomes even more of a fetter on the freedom of humanity. Thanks Grant and to all on the list and with apologies to Fidellet free-time ring, Mike B) = Freedom is what we make of it. If we stand against repression, authority and illegitimate structures, we are expanding the domain of freedom and that's what freedom will be. That's what we create; there is nothing to define in words. -- Noam Chomsky http://profiles.yahoo.com/swillsqueal __ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/
Re: Fidel Castro on unequal exchange
In a message dated 12/21/03 12:39:14 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think that there is room for a lot of improvement onthe issue child rearing. All the societies which Iknow of, contain an element of hierarchical power,even the preliterate, classless ones. Non-democratichierarchical power is always abusive as far as I'mconcerned. As Marx remarked somewhere, the firstdivision of this kind of power relation was betweenmen and women--pre-existing class society. Onreflection, I thought that I would include children inthis dynamic, ergo that reflection which got thiswhole thread started. Comment Could you quote the source of Marx statement please . . . because I thought he was talking about the division of labor and the subsequent evolution of property forms and not "hierarchical power." Before the emergence of division of labor adults had to protect the young and teach them as the spontaneous basis of biological existence. The first contact of the born child is the mother standing in a relationship as an adult or guardian of more wisdom than the child. This is a natural - spontaneous, "hierarchical power" who authority becomes ritualized. How can one be against or find the basis of our historic existence unpleasant? This hierarchical power is neither democratic or non-democratic in relationship to the child, but rather very authoritative. The mother must feed the child and cannot vote on exercise a dissenting opinion on whether the child as children will survive. The first hierarchical power is not the division between men and women. It is between parent andchild or arises from species reproduction. The child has to be taught behaviorin response to environment and their is nothing democratic about this. The social division of labor that arises based on tools revolves around the axis of species reproduction but is not species reproduction. The hierarchical power is "non-democratic" or rather, authoritative at the dawn of prehistory. And this is all right. Melvin P.
Not Understanding What This Has to do with Fidel Economics.. but Does Anatomy Rule?
Mike ballard said: There seems to be greater recognition today that abused children tend to grow into becoming abusive parents/adults themselves. It seems to me to be a conservative cycle which has the effect of putting a psychological stopper on the social revolution. Of course, if all imposed, hierarchical power tends to breed abusive social relations, then capitalism has a moral problem and becomes even more of a fetter on the freedom of humanity. To Mike Others: There is a fascinating (and relevant to this discussion) set of data arising, partly from the Roumanian orphanage tragedies, that early abuse hard-wires the brain into fixed anatomical visible differences by MRI scanning. Of course the implications for the whole Nature vs Nuture thing - are tremendous. As an extension of this - the reverse also true. Hence likely many here know of the Bowlby monkey experiments. Recently much work on this in 'newer' model systems able to tease out the molecular under-pinnings of this, re-emphasize the importance of an early (meaning childhood/infancy) experience of love. I have mentioned before here, the Whitehall studies, where those higher on the totem pole of the 'civil' service have better health outcomes than those lower, has been related to control issues. PS: To Michael Perelman: Lurkers may be here to learn! As me. I appreciated very much the naive economic questions from - I think Mike B - who received expert tuition in economics. As a non-economic lurker, I often feel that I may waste others' time if I did that - although several times the need to ask has hit me. So I very much appreciated the 'nerve' of Mike B in doing that. Cheers, Hari
Re: Fidel Castro on unequal exchange
Why does there have to be a suffering contest? What is worst than child abuse? Why? Proves my point really. J.
Re: Fidel Castro on unequal exchange
And what was your point? Jurriaan Bendien wrote: Why does there have to be a suffering contest? What is worst than child abuse? Why? Proves my point really. J.
Should Saddam Hussein be sentenced to death ?
But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. (Matthew 22, King James version).
Re: Fidel Castro on unequal exchange
And what was your point? This song don't have a video So you'll just have to listen Focus on the audio, The visual is missin', How am I gonna get it Is probably what you're thinking Your ears aren't tuned for singing Without watching lip synching This song don't have a video, You'll have to pay attention. To how the melody might go - And the lyrics I might mention. I know you need distraction, or else you tend to fidget - When there's no cleavage footage, And not one single midget. This song don't have a video, Use your imagination ! Forget about the radio, They won't play it on the station... They're not sure you can grasp it, They don't give you much credit, If you can't see it, you don't hear it, So you never get it ! This song don't have a video, I know your ear I'm bending - It's taken seriously though, They're only just pretending ! Don't forget to remember that, That's all that I'm saying - When watching people faking, Their singing and their playing. - from Loudon Wainwright III, Therapy (October 1988), BMG/Silvertone Records
Re: the capture of saddam
Micheal, re your point about throwing a stun grenade into the hole: A Scottish newspaper (also picked up by The AGE in Melbourne) raises the argument that Saddam was actually captured by the Kurds -- perhaps weeks before -- and drugged and placed in the hole for the US hunters. Sort of like that turkey shoot Cheney went on in Pennsylvania recently. Separately, a friend mentions a news item or video scene where a US soldier was poised with a grenade, ready to toss it in the hole -- but it wasn't necessary. Gene michael wrote: J. Edgar Hoover used to to reenactments of the capture of famous criminal, where he would heroically appear to apprehend the evil doer. Why did Bush not fly his fighter plane to Iraq and pull Saddam out of the hole on prime time tv? Is Karl Rove getting stale? By the way, I suspect that the soldiers would not just climb down into a hole and find SH with his hands up. The would certainly throw in a stun grenade or gas him before bringing him up. Of course, none of this is germane to pen-l, but nobody seems interested in the real economy. Does anybody have any feel for the types of jobs that are being created now? Is the international economy stable enough to carry Bush till next October? Are we in the midst of a new stock market bubble? -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University michael at ecst.csuchico.edu Chico, CA 95929 530-898-5321 fax 530-898-5901
new radio product
Newly added to my radio archive http://www.leftbusinessobserver.com/Radio.html: December 18, 2003 Larry Birns, director of the Council on Hemispheric Affairs, on the Central America Free Trade Agreement * Simon Head, author of The New Ruthless Economy, on working in the era of surveillance, restructuring, and speedup it joins December 11, 2003 Steffie Woolhandler of Physicians for a National Health Program on the Medicare reform bill * Robert Pollin, author of Countours of Descent, on neoliberalism and the economy of the 1990s December 4, 2003 Psephologist Ruy Teixeira on Bush's poll numbers * Michael Dawson, author of The Consumer Trap, on marketing November 27, 2003 Thanksgiving Bigotry Discrimination Special: Joel Schalit, author of Jerusalem Calling, on the Counterpunch collection, The Politics of Anti-Semitism * Patrick Mason on the economics of race (rebroadcast of June 19, 2003, interview) November 13, 2003 Tim McCarthy John McMillan, editors of The Radical Reader, on the history of American radicalism * Christian Parenti, author of The Soft Cage, on surveillance in America from slavery to the Patriot Act November 6, 2003 Richard Burkholder, directior of international polling for Gallup, on that firm's survey of Baghdad: how do Iraqis feel about the war, occupation, their future * Ivo Daalder, author of America Unbound, on the Bush administration's foreign policy revolution October 16, 2003 MARATHON SPECIAL Special program for the WBAI quarterly fundraising marathon. Hugh Hamilton, host of Talkback, interviews Doug Henwood about his new book, After the New Economy http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D1565847709/leftbusinessobseA/. Includes some begging, alas (some was edited out). Program length: 1:39 October 9, 2003 Loretta Napoleoni, author of Modern Jihad, on Saudi Arabia and the finance of the jihadists * Bernard Henri-Levy, author of Who Killed Daniel Pearl?, on the murder of the WSJ reporter, and the culpability of Pakistan in jihadism October 2, 2003 Ursula Huws, author of The Making of a Cybertariat, on work in the electronic age, domestic labor, offshoring, etc. * Ana Malinow, a doc in Houston affiliated with Physicians for a National Health Program, on the uninsured along with -- * Nina Revoyr on the history of Los Angeles, real and fictional * Bill Fletcher on war and peace * Slavoj Zizek on war, imperialism, and fantasy * Susie Bright on sex and politics * Anatol Lieven on Iraq * Lisa Jervis on feminism pop culture * Faye Wattleton on a poll of American women * Joseph Stiglitz on the IMF and the Wall St-Treasury axis * Naomi Klein on Argentina and the arrested political development of the global justice movement * Michael Albert on participatory economics (parecon) * Michael Hudson, author of a report on the sleazy world of subprime finance * Patrick Mason on the economics of racial discrimination * Hilary Wainwright, editor of Red Pepper, on Blair's political troubles * Hamid Dabashi on Iran * Marta Russell on the UN conference on disability * William Pepper on the state-sponsored assassination of Martin Luther King * Sara Roy on the Palestinian economy * Christian Parenti on his visit to Baghdad * Tariq Ali, Noam Chomsky, and Cynthia Enloe on the then-impending war with Iraq * Michael Hardt on Empire * Judith Levine on kids sex * Walden Bello on the World Social Forum and alternative development models * Christopher Hitchens on Orwell and his new political affiliations * Mark Hertsgaard on the U.S. image abroad * Ghada Karmi on her search for her Palestinian roots * Jonathan Nitzan on the Israeli economy * Alexandra Robbins on Skull Bones -- Doug Henwood Left Business Observer 38 Greene St - 4th fl. New York NY 10013-2505 USA voice +1-212-219-0010 fax+1-212-219-0098 cell +1-917-865-2813 email mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] webhttp://www.leftbusinessobserver.com
re-press-shun
Title: re-press-shun Editorial from the Toledo, OH Blade, Dec 13, 2003 A repressive embarrassment Anyone who thinks the administration and its law enforcement chief, Attorney General John Ashcroft, aren't out to impede a free press need only hear how the federal government is treating foreign journalists coming to this country on assignment. Without notification to foreign media outlets, the immigration and customs people are arresting, detaining, and deporting journalists arriving here without special visas. This is so even when they come from nations whose citizens can stay for up to 90 days without a visa if they are arriving as tourists or on business. If that threatening form of registration is not enough, members of the press arriving without the visas, which no one told them they needed, are treated like criminals, handcuffed as they're marched through airports, photographed, fingerprinted, and their DNA taken. Peter Krobath, chief editor for the Austrian movie magazine Skip, was held overnight in a cold room with 45 others who arrived without the visa. The room had two open toilets, a metal bench, and a concrete bench. He was here to interview movie star Ben Affleck and see the movie Paycheck. Thomas Sjoerup, a photographer for the Danish paper Ekstra Bladet, was deported after a few hours during which a mugshot, fingerprints, and DNA sample were taken. A French journalist said he and five others from his country were marched across the airport in handcuffs, without belts or laces. The International Press Institute in Vienna, a media freedom group, has complained not only about Mr. Korbath's treatment but also, and indeed more important, the fact that only foreign journalists need special visas. The Brussels-based International Federation of Journalists is about to launch a global campaign against the absurd and repressive rule that casts suspicion on working journalists who come to this country on business as valid as any other traveler's. A U.S. embassy official in Vienna said visas have always been required. If that requirement existed, it was more honored in its breach and ought to be rescinded. It should not take a world media outcry to address this problem. It's a policy that puts these United States in the ranks of Third World dictatorships. Members of Congress, regardless of party, who understand the absurdity of it all, even in these troubled times, should demand an end to this repressive embarrassment. It's not likely President Bush ever will.
something new???
Is Qadhafi the first person in US history to make the transition from demon to statesman? Usually, it goes the other way. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Not Understanding What This Has to do with Fidel Economics.. but Does Anatomy Rule?
I don't think of you as a lurker. I appreciate your imput. I would like to see some official lurkers jump in. Hari Kumar wrote: PS: To Michael Perelman: Lurkers may be here to learn! As me. I appreciated very much the naive economic questions from - I think Mike B - who received expert tuition in economics. As a non-economic lurker, I often feel that I may waste others' time if I did that - although several times the need to ask has hit me. So I very much appreciated the 'nerve' of Mike B in doing that. Cheers, Hari -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University michael at ecst.csuchico.edu Chico, CA 95929 530-898-5321 fax 530-898-5901
Re: something new???
Stalin made it (during the war) and then back. jks --- Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is Qadhafi the first person in US history to make the transition from demon to statesman? Usually, it goes the other way. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/
Re: something new???
Kurt Waldeheim? - Original Message - From: Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 5:26 PM Subject: [PEN-L] something new??? Is Qadhafi the first person in US history to make the transition from demon to statesman? Usually, it goes the other way. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Not Understanding What This Has to do with Fidel Economics.. but Does Anatomy Rule?
ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ASK. It's the most important function of any discussion. No such thing as too basic a question. dms PS: To Michael Perelman: Lurkers may be here to learn! As me. I appreciated very much the naive economic questions from - I think Mike B - who received expert tuition in economics. As a non-economic lurker, I often feel that I may waste others' time if I did that - although several times the need to ask has hit me. So I very much appreciated the 'nerve' of Mike B in doing that. Cheers, Hari -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University michael at ecst.csuchico.edu Chico, CA 95929 530-898-5321 fax 530-898-5901
Re: something new???
From: Michael Perelman Is Qadhafi the first person in US history to make the transition from demon to statesman? Usually, it goes the other way. Stalin in 1941-45? And then back to demon again.
Re: Not Understanding What This Has to do with Fidel Economics.. but Does Anatomy Rule?
Thanks for all the back-handed compliments. ;D And special thanks to Jurriaan for putting in excellent, skilled labour time in answering some of the questions which I've posed, most lately, the one about Fidel's comment on unequal exchange. Cheers all! Mike B) --- dmschanoes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ASK. It's the most important function of any discussion. No such thing as too basic a question. dms PS: To Michael Perelman: Lurkers may be here to learn! As me. I appreciated very much the naive economic questions from - I think Mike B - who received expert tuition in economics. As a non-economic lurker, I often feel that I may waste others' time if I did that - although several times the need to ask has hit me. So I very much appreciated the 'nerve' of Mike B in doing that. Cheers, Hari -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University michael at ecst.csuchico.edu Chico, CA 95929 530-898-5321 fax 530-898-5901 = Freedom is what we make of it. If we stand against repression, authority and illegitimate structures, we are expanding the domain of freedom and that's what freedom will be. That's what we create; there is nothing to define in words. -- Noam Chomsky http://profiles.yahoo.com/swillsqueal __ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/
Re: something new???
Waldheim was a secret demon. That does not count. On Sun, Dec 21, 2003 at 05:57:45PM -0500, dmschanoes wrote: Kurt Waldeheim? - Original Message - From: Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 5:26 PM Subject: [PEN-L] something new??? Is Qadhafi the first person in US history to make the transition from demon to statesman? Usually, it goes the other way. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Should Saddam Hussein be sentenced to death ?
But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. (Matthew 22, King James version). Every good Christian knows that neighbor means whoever it is easiest to love, not everybody. Come on, Juriaann. Hussein should be put to death in the worst way because he's not white, and in the words of our most Godly king, GW Bush, He's an evil-doer. Benjamin
Re: Not Understanding What This Has to do with Fidel Economics.. but Does Anatomy Rule?
Backhanded? I was referring to Hari, who stated he is afraid of asking questions because he might be wasting others' time. I don't consider a question about unequal exchange, given the fact that is a historical manifestation, a basic question. dms
Re: something new/Waldheim
True, although it was probably only a secret from the public. As I recall, after war the Yugoslavs filed a formal complaint against him as a war criminal with the Allied war crimes tribunal (U.S., Soviet, UK, French). Since was he then was a career diplomat being posted to the key capitals rising to Foreign Minister of Austria and since neutral Vienna was the center of Cold War clandestine contact and monitoring for both sides, it is hard to believe that the key players had not worked up many a profile on him long before he was ran for UN Sec Gen. To put things in context, I believe the charges never went beyond being in the chain of command for atrocities (I think against partisans and British commandos). Although it was never charged that he actually initiated an atrocity or personally supervised one, it is still a war crime to be participate in the chain of command of one - let us remind people often. At 03:23 PM 12/21/2003 -0800, you wrote: Waldheim was a secret demon. That does not count. On Sun, Dec 21, 2003 at 05:57:45PM -0500, dmschanoes wrote: Kurt Waldeheim? - Original Message - From: Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 5:26 PM Subject: [PEN-L] something new??? Is Qadhafi the first person in US history to make the transition from demon to statesman? Usually, it goes the other way. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
New Scientist on resignation of WMD lead inspector
The World's No.1 Science Technology News Service http://www.newscientist.com/ Lead Iraq weapons seeker 'to quit' 17:02 19 December 03 NewScientist.com news service The man leading the US hunt for biological, chemical and nuclear weapons in Iraq is to resign, according to reports. The loss of David Kay is being interpreted by many analysts as signalling the end of the major effort to discover any hidden weapons. A number of observers now believe it is unlikely that any weapons of mass destruction (WMD) existed. However, officials from the US administration maintain that if Kay does leave, it would have no impact on the ongoing work of the Iraq Study Group he heads. According to The Washington Post, Kay has told administration officials that he plans to leave before the completion of the ISG's final report, expected in autumn 2004. He may even leave before the next interim report in February. Kay has cited personal reasons for resigning, the paper says. But in recent weeks he has softened his line on the probability of finding banned WMD. He is said to be frustrated that some of the ISG's 1400 staff were reallocated to counter-insurgency duties in Iraq in October. Paul Rogers, at the Department of Peace Studies at Bradford University, UK, thinks Kay's planned departure is significant: My reading is that it's a serious part of downgrading the whole procedure. I think it's highly unlikely that anything will be found. Shifting stance Iraq's possession of banned WMD was one of the major justifications used by the US and UK for invading Iraq in March. The failure to find them is a political embarrassment to both governments. Rogers believes the Bush administration is shifting its stance, and no longer sees finding the WMD as a priority. Instead, he says, officials are focusing on the atrocities carried out by Saddam Hussein as the key reason for going to war. They've made a transition with the truth and my guess is they're pretty well convinced there's nothing serious to be found, he told New Scientist. While that may be totally different to what we were told eight months ago, that is the new line. During a recent interview with ABC News, President George Bush dismissed questions about the failure of the ongoing search. What difference does it make? If [Saddam Hussein] were to acquire weapons, he would be the danger. Soil samples Before the war in Iraq, UN inspectors had been unable to find any biological, chemical or nuclear weapons. Since the end of the conflict, ISG staff have taken soil samples, inspected hundreds of factories and laboratories and interviewed many Iraqi scientists in their hunt for the weapons, but found almost nothing. ISG mobile exploitation teams are armed with an array of scientific equipment including Chemical Agent Monitors, designed to quickly find chemical weapons, Portable Isotopic Neutron Spectroscopes for identifying radioactive materials in sealed containers and a handheld instrument that can spot the DNA of biological weapons. Only a single vial of botulinum toxin, an extremely poisonous substance, has been found, in the house of an Iraqi scientist. Will Knight attachment: dots400.gif
Re: something new???
Certainly Putin graduated from being a KGB agent of the Evil Empire to having a beautiful soul or something like that according to Bush..But it may tarnish fast.. Cheers, Ken Hanly - Original Message - From: andie nachgeborenen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 4:59 PM Subject: Re: something new??? Stalin made it (during the war) and then back. jks --- Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is Qadhafi the first person in US history to make the transition from demon to statesman? Usually, it goes the other way. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/
cell phone info
My ex and I are thinking of getting my son a cell-phone for xmas...and we don't have the slightest idea what to look at when looking at the various plans, cell phones, services etc. His pattern of use would probably be weekends/evenings and totally local to the bay area. If you can give some advice, please reply offlist. Thanks, Joanna
Re: Cuba
HI Mike, Thanks for all the back-handed compliments. ;D And special thanks to Jurriaan for putting in excellent, skilled labour time in answering some of the questions which I've posed, most lately, the one about Fidel's comment on unequal exchange. Well of course we can talk about Marx's theory of economic exchange, which is also important, but the political question for me is whether or not comrade Castro's comment is in fact conducive to promoting better trade relations between his country and the European Union, if that's the aim. Because raising the standard of life in Cuba obviously depends a lot on this. he may be quite correct about the 400 million dollar profit, depending on how you evaluate gross and net income, but now what ? Often, the way commercial people would see it, is that they would say well, sugar prices are just very low, they are by nature volatile, what can we do about it, there's nothing much we can do about it, all you can do is diversify production But I have to think of Adam Smith's famous quote here, People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices. It is impossible indeed to prevent such meetings, by any law which either could be executed, or would be consistent with liberty and justice. But though the law cannot hinder people of the same trade from sometimes assembling together, it ought to do nothing to facilitate such assemblies; much less to render them necessary. Refer: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4096789,00.html An investor can of course decide to buy sugar here or there, and the decision to buy it from Cuba rather than somewhere else maybe doesn't depend totally on acquisition prices, but also on other (political) considerations. The trade boycott against Cuba is to a large extent motivated, I believe, by a prejudice of Western Governments. They scream about human rights and democracy, but in reality Cuba is - quantitatively and qualitatively speaking - doing rather better than a heck of a lot of countries I could mention, with which the same Western governments DO engage in trade. So caricatures of Castro and false analogies such that Castro is like Saddam Hussein obscure what's really going on, it's just demonology. In foreign policy, the hysteria about the Cuban government turns the reality on its head: it is the whole terrible history of subversion of Cuban national sovereignity and trade boycotts/sabotage which engenders political paranoia, and which compels the Cuban government to take a strict, defensive attitude. But the real basis for political democracy in Cuba is a viable, growing economy and a stable convertible currency, so people have jobs and can plan a future. Without that, you can have any kind of political regime you like, but they would end up, sooner or later, doing much the same thing as Castro, or, (more likely) they would create a real mess (supposing that there was a regime change in Cuba, then under the contemporary conditions, all you would probably get is a kind of casino and tourist playground for rich Americans, while the ordinary Cuban craps out, has no job, and wants to emigrate. Because even if you had regime change, that still wouldn't raise world market prices for Cuban exports. All that would happen would be that, instead of the sugar production being controlled by the government, it would be controlled by Dean Foods, Kraft Foods, Unilever, CSR or Nestle or whatever, who would rationalise production and put more people out of work. Castro isn't talking about national sovereignity for a joke, he is talking about the future of his people, in a world where globalisation in reality means just that the travel industry captures 10 percent of the world Gross Product, whereas the majority of the world aren't even in a position to buy travel, at least not international travel. The principal commodity exports of Cuba are sugar, nickel, tobacco, fish, medical supplies, citrus fruit, and coffee; the main trading partners of Cuba in recent years are the Netherlands, Russia, Canada, Spain, and China. The Netherlands is one of the largest, if not the largest, importers of Cuban products. But there are around a hundred countries which produce sugar, and Cuba, although about the fifth largest exporter, is only about the tenth largest producer, Cuba's sugar production is completely dwarfed by Brazil for example. Except for fish and medical supplies, the other export commodity prices remain pretty low. Karl Marx's analysis shows that, historically speaking, the world development of capitalism created a world division of labour and production, which is to the advantage of the industrialised, richer countries, who traditionally not only can outcompete the rest of the world with higher productivity (what Marx called the artillery of cheaper mass-produced commodities) but also effectively or
Re: Should Saddam Hussein be sentenced to death ?
Suppose that Bushies loved Saddam Hussein as they love themselves and their own country, what sort of love would it be ? J.
Weapons of Mass who cares?
From the Today's Papers newsletter for December 18th: quote The Post says all the way on A42 that the head of the weapons of mass destruction search team, David Kay, is quitting. It's not exactly clear when Kay is going to clean out his desk, but the WP says he might not be back after the holidays and might not be around for his group's next interim report let alone the final one. Many staffers on Kay's team have already been reassigned to counter-insurgency duties. As the Post notes, when the president was asked in an ABC News interview Tuesday whether he still believes that Saddam had actual weapons of mass destruction as opposed to the possibility that he could move to acquire those weapons, Bush replied, So what's the difference? endquote
Re: Cuba
Jurriaan Bendien wrote: Well of course we can talk about Marx's theory of economic exchange, which is also important, but the political question for me is whether or not comrade Castro's comment is in fact conducive to promoting better trade relations between his country and the European Union, if that's the aim. But that is obviously _not_ his immediate aim (though it might be one of a number of ultimate aims). Read your own original message, and you identification of the quote: President Fidel Castro of Cuba, addressing the crowd at Marcelo Salado elementary school in Cardenas, 5 December. No European Union in Cardenas, especially at the Marcelo Salado elementary school. Castro's aim is what the primary aim has _always_ been in almost _all_ of his speeches, even those nominally addressed to the U.N. or other audience of rulers or their representatives -- he is aiming at creating solidarity among the victims of imperialism. The premise is (as it has always been) that such solidarity would, in turn, lead to 'better' relations with the imperialist world. I don't know where Lenin says the following; it was cited to me long ago by a friend in the history department at ISU, but it covers Castro's aim rather nicely: (Quoted from long ago memory and obviously not quite correct) The liberals say, 'The Workers are strong when the public respects them. We [the RSDLP] say 'The public respects the workers when they are strong.' Neither Marx's theory of economic exchange _nor_ the opinions of the EU are relevant here. Carrol
Re: something new/Waldheim
That's ok, the new governor of California stood by Waldheim even when it became public. Paul wrote: True, although it was probably only a secret from the public. As I recall, after war the Yugoslavs filed a formal complaint against him as a war criminal with the Allied war crimes tribunal (U.S., Soviet, UK, French). Since was he then was a career diplomat being posted to the key capitals rising to Foreign Minister of Austria and since neutral Vienna was the center of Cold War clandestine contact and monitoring for both sides, it is hard to believe that the key players had not worked up many a profile on him long before he was ran for UN Sec Gen. To put things in context, I believe the charges never went beyond being in the chain of command for atrocities (I think against partisans and British commandos). Although it was never charged that he actually initiated an atrocity or personally supervised one, it is still a war crime to be participate in the chain of command of one - let us remind people often. At 03:23 PM 12/21/2003 -0800, you wrote: Waldheim was a secret demon. That does not count. On Sun, Dec 21, 2003 at 05:57:45PM -0500, dmschanoes wrote: Kurt Waldeheim? - Original Message - From: Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 5:26 PM Subject: [PEN-L] something new??? Is Qadhafi the first person in US history to make the transition from demon to statesman? Usually, it goes the other way. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fidel Castro on unequal exchange
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think that there is room for a lot of improvement on the issue child rearing. All the societies which I know of, contain an element of hierarchical power, even the preliterate, classless ones. Non-democratic hierarchical power is always abusive as far as I'm concerned. As Marx remarked somewhere, the first division of this kind of power relation was between men and women--pre-existing class society. On reflection, I thought that I would include children in this dynamic, ergo that reflection which got this whole thread started. Comment Could you quote the source of Marx statement please . . . because I thought he was talking about the division of labor and the subsequent evolution of property forms and not hierarchical power. Hi Melvin, 1844 Paris Manuscripts, Marx makes a major point of the relationship between the sexes: The infinite degradation in which man exists for himself is expressed in this relation to the woman, There are also observations of this sort in his Ethnological Notebooks. Some discussion of this unpublished work can be found here: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/pipermail/marxism-thaxis/1997-February/002795.html I do think that authority can be justified in many, many cases, such as telling a child not to cross the street because of oncoming traffic or when a language teacher is being *given* the authority to impart knowledge by the student. That kind of authority is mutually beneficial, mutually power enhancing. It is a recognition of mastery, not an obedient response to imposed power i.e. my freedom is based on your unfreedom. I'm also in agreement that the basic division of labour in society, which you point out, was an historical necessity for human development. It is now time to *sublate* many of those forms of authority and divisions of labour because they have gone from being necessary to being a fetter on our further freedom. Wobbly greetings, Mike B) = Freedom is what we make of it. If we stand against repression, authority and illegitimate structures, we are expanding the domain of freedom and that's what freedom will be. That's what we create; there is nothing to define in words. -- Noam Chomsky http://profiles.yahoo.com/swillsqueal __ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/
Re: Cuba
Castro's aim is what the primary aim has _always_ been in almost _all_ of his speeches, even those nominally addressed to the U.N. or other audience of rulers or their representatives -- he is aiming at creating solidarity among the victims of imperialism. The premise is (as it has always been) that such solidarity would, in turn, lead to 'better' relations with the imperialist world. Well yes, what you say is correct and pertinent. This is why I'm pro-Castro as I've said, he takes up the challenge of turning victims into strong revolutionaries. However, this does not yet resolve the question of the ways which are most conducive to improving EU-Cuban relations, and the modes of expression used. But frankly I do not know enough specifics about it yet, to give a constructive answer. The liberals say, 'The Workers are strong when the public respects them. We [the RSDLP] say 'The public respects the workers when they are strong.' Yes, I agree, that is the Marxist view, but this must be viewed dynamically, i.e. dialectically, in the sense that the one may be a conduit for the other, and the contradictions involved must be understood. For example, Arnold Schwarzendegger is a very strong man, but what are the real relations of respect involved ? We may be very strong, but poorly organised, and so, even although we are very strong, we are not respected. The other aspect is, that if the public respects the workers when they are strong, then who are the non-workers (thinking as a statistician here) ? They must be the bourgeois classes, the professionals, and the non-working population. But we seek not merely respect in general, but respect of a specific type. J.
nano-dirigisme
[Alexander Hamilton meets Richard Feynman] [New York Times] December 22, 2003 As Nanotechnology Gains Visibility, Venture Capital Begins Coming In By BARNABY J. FEDER It may take sophisticated microscopes to see nanotechnology's products, but the money pouring into the field is hard to miss. The industry gained new visibility on Dec. 3 when President Bush signed a law authorizing federal research and development subsidies of $3.7 billion over the four years, beginning next October. The Oval Office photo opportunity for nanotechnology, coincidentally, came the same day that Nanogen, one of a handful of publicly traded start-ups, disclosed that it had received a patent for a nanoscale manufacturing method that it said could be used to make advanced microchips and flat-panel displays. Nanogen's stock more than doubled that day, leading the sector higher. Entrepreneurs say that the nanotechnology investment climate is warming up just in time to meet their growing capacity to put investors' money to work expanding research and bringing innovations to market. We are really close to the takeoff point where the industry could absorb a lot of money, said David Ludvigson, chief financial officer of Nanogen, a 10-year-old developer of tools for genetic testing that is one of the few nanotech start-ups to go public before the bursting Internet bubble soured investors on technology stocks. Nanotechnology draws its name from the nanometer, which is a billionth of a meter, or 100,000 times as thin as a human hair. Individual molecules, tiny organisms like viruses and the smallest features of products like microchips operate in a nanoscale landscape. Many industries used nanoscale products and processes decades before the term nanotechnolgy became a recognized concept on Wall Street. In the 1930's, for example, Kodak figured out how to insert a layer of nanoscale silver particles in its film to filter light. But nanotechnology did not catch the fancy of investors until the 1990's, when ingenious new software and computer-controlled tools expanded the possibilities for manipulating small-scale processes, designing new materials and accurately measuring their performance. The new generation of nanomaterials is already taking commercial root. Nanoscale clay particles strengthen car bodies. Coatings made with aluminum-titanium nanoparticles add to the durability of boiler components and submarine periscopes for the Navy. Carbon nanotubes add stiffness to Babolat tennis rackets. And pants are being made with techniques that alter the structure of cotton to create nanoscale whiskers that make the fabric more stain resistant. Analysts say that such developments are simply a hint of what is to come in nanotechnology, which the National Science Foundation predicts will contribute $1 trillion a year to the United States economy by 2015. Such forecasts matter to policymakers, but pioneers with products to sell are focusing on the immediate challenges of building their businesses. The timing is good for taking our company to the next level, said Dr. David Reisner, chief executive of Inframat, a privately held company in Farmington, Conn., that uses nanomaterials in producing specialty coatings. After six years of existing primarily on research grants from the Defense Department, Inframat expects to raise $6 million to $8 million next year from venture capitalists or large private-sector customers to expand operations. Dr. Reisner was one of numerous executives at NanoCommerce, a trade show in Chicago earlier this month, who said they planned to seek new investments in the coming months, in some cases tens of millions of dollars. Integrated Nano-Technologies, based in Henrietta, N.Y., might pursue as much as $30 million from venture capitalists next year, said Stephen S. Nazarian, the company's spokesman. Integrated has developed prototypes of a portable system that quickly identifies biological agents like anthrax when they bind to fragments of DNA it mounts on a microchip. But Mr. Nazarian said that the company, which has relied so far on individual investors, thinks that potential business partners might be a better bet than venture capitalists to finance the next stage of its expansion. We have had a lot of unsolicited interest from Asian governments and potential distributors of products using the technology, Mr. Nazarian said. Others at the Chicago show, like Lewis Gruber, president and chief executive of Arryx, which has developed a tool for manipulating individual cells and even smaller particles with light beams, said they were barred by securities regulations from commenting on their plans - generally a sign that they have started to raise money. Kleiner Perkins Caufield Byers, the influential Silicon Valley investment firm that has generally steered clear of nanotechnology, is also reticent. According to some reports, Kleiner has joined a round of financing that ZettaCore, a four-year-old start-up based
