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Brad, I also noticed that the bill was concerned about the elimination of corruption. What is the record of United States regarding corruption? Our political campaigns are nothing more than organized bribery. Is it possible for a non-corrupt politicians to get elected to anything higher than the City Council in a small town? How many corrupt leaders has United States propped up around the world? This is not an argument that AGOA is a bad thing...
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Rob Schaap wrote: Two men expressing affection in a homophobic world may do so by hugging each other, but only if they bring their forearms hard against each others' backs, preferably bruising some ribs, and then, for but a moment, making sure to hug hard enough to induce pain. This is a very poignant ritual, but must be reserved for rare and moving occasions - like when someone remembers it is the object of theory that is the object of theory. I think we need to theorize this - the need to differentiate this kind of hug from an erotic hug, the need to bruise some bones in the process, etc. etc. I'm reminded of that Barbara Krueger caption to a photo of a football game - "You devise elaborate rituals to touch each other." Oh, sorry, this isn't economics. Doug
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The edition of the Oxford Anthology I have at work is dated 1935. Maybe they dumped the folk poetry and ballads by the 70s, and reinstated them later? --jks In a message dated Mon, 15 May 2000 4:10:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Doug Henwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And this from a former lit grad student! I think they need less Theory and more literature in those classes. My old Oxford Anthology of English poetry has not insubstantial chunks of material that we would call folk poetry, medieval and Renaissance, not all of it is court song, and much that is is obviously taken over from popular song. There is a huge collection ballads--I think the Child ballads is many volumes. Ewam McColl and Peggy Seeger had a lot records singing them and Scots ballads as well. Burns, also, collected a lot of Scots folk song that he wrote down as poetry, ang was not the only one. Jean Redpath has at least seven discs of this material, almost all of it transcriptions. Please, Doug! Less Butler and more Burns. --ks "Not insubstantial"? The literature I was fed in college grad school (between 1971 and 1979), and that about which Williams mainly wrote in The Country The City, was not folk poetry, but formal stuff written by highly literate, and mostly formally educated, writers. I said "canonical," after all. It was only after the "Theory" revolution that you decry that people in lit departments began reading lots of working class literature, i.e., when the canon came under challenge. A friend of mine from grad school, Donna Landry (co-editor of The Spivak Reader), has been studying peasant and working class women poets of the 17th 18th centuries. I asked her if she likes reading the stuff, which from what I've seen, looks pretty awful. She said no, but that she doesn't like poetry much anyway; she'd rather read detective novels. Hey hey, ho ho, Western culture's gotta go, Doug
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In a message dated 00-05-15 18:09:36 EDT, you write: A friend of mine from grad school, Donna Landry (co-editor of The Spivak Reader), has been studying peasant and working class women poets of the 17th 18th centuries. I asked her if she likes reading the stuff, which from what I've seen, looks pretty awful. She said no, but that she doesn't like poetry much anyway; she'd rather read detective novels. Sigh. You know, this confirms my worst suspicions about those philosophers manque who do Theory. They don't like literature, and they lack the discipline or training to do real philosophy, so they generate esxciting-sounding but essentially meaningless social theory ungrounded in either rigorous argument or empirical fact. Spivak, pah. Here we have a literature prof who doesn't like poetry, who would rather read detective novels, but who studies bad "subaltern subject perspective" women poets because that is a PC thing to do. The stuff is (I wil take her word) of no literary value, and should be studied by someone with training as a historian or historical sociologist, who might be able to teach us something about it. EP Thompson did this some in Customs in Common; but he loved poetry, and knew it. high and low, as an able literary critic--not a Theorist, but as someone who knew the period(s) and loved the language. Oh, well, I am a boring old reactionary who loves poetry, so what do I know. However, my gripe with Theory aside, there was in the literary canon that _I_ was taught a lot of really good folk song and poetry by Anonymous; and you can find a lot of it in the ballads. My wife, same vintage as me, five tears later than you,a nd like me an amateur historian of medieval and Rennaisance England,a hs the asme recollection. Course we listen to a lot of thsi music in song all the time, too. Hey hey, ho ho, Western culture's gotta go, Right, teach 'em Spivak instead of Milton, it's great as an emetic. --jks
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Michael Perelman wrote: Carrol, we have no need to get nasty here. Carrol Cox wrote: Lou, this is either pure academic bullshit or it is the kind of red-baiting I have been fighting against over on lbo. Lou and I always forgive each other. Carrol
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Please find attached one manly cyber-hug, Justin! Well-spoken, comrade! If, as Frost said, 'poetry is what gets left out in translation' (though I'm convinced Dryden managed to keep plenty of Chaucer in), 'tis even the translation that's left out in the postie critique, where the heroic couplet is only a shitfight between the logocentric and the phonocentric, and meanings not worth discussing beyond their a-priori definition as some generic ether which is significant only in that it signifies nothing but its own deferred difference. For myself, I've a lot more time for Spivak than Derrida. As I have more for influenza than I do smallpox. Anyway, good on you, Justin! Rob. In a message dated 00-05-15 18:09:36 EDT, you write: A friend of mine from grad school, Donna Landry (co-editor of The Spivak Reader), has been studying peasant and working class women poets of the 17th 18th centuries. I asked her if she likes reading the stuff, which from what I've seen, looks pretty awful. She said no, but that she doesn't like poetry much anyway; she'd rather read detective novels. Sigh. You know, this confirms my worst suspicions about those philosophers manque who do Theory. They don't like literature, and they lack the discipline or training to do real philosophy, so they generate esxciting-sounding but essentially meaningless social theory ungrounded in either rigorous argument or empirical fact. Spivak, pah. Here we have a literature prof who doesn't like poetry, who would rather read detective novels, but who studies bad "subaltern subject perspective" women poets because that is a PC thing to do. The stuff is (I wil take her word) of no literary value, and should be studied by someone with training as a historian or historical sociologist, who might be able to teach us something about it. EP Thompson did this some in Customs in Common; but he loved poetry, and knew it. high and low, as an able literary critic--not a Theorist, but as someone who knew the period(s) and loved the language. Oh, well, I am a boring old reactionary who loves poetry, so what do I know. However, my gripe with Theory aside, there was in the literary canon that _I_ was taught a lot of really good folk song and poetry by Anonymous; and you can find a lot of it in the ballads. My wife, same vintage as me, five tears later than you,a nd like me an amateur historian of medieval and Rennaisance England,a hs the asme recollection. Course we listen to a lot of thsi music in song all the time, too. Hey hey, ho ho, Western culture's gotta go, Right, teach 'em Spivak instead of Milton, it's great as an emetic. --jks
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what is this "manly cyber-hug"? (smile!) Mine Please find attached one manly cyber-hug, Justin..
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G'day Mine, Two men expressing affection in a homophobic world may do so by hugging each other, but only if they bring their forearms hard against each others' backs, preferably bruising some ribs, and then, for but a moment, making sure to hug hard enough to induce pain. This is a very poignant ritual, but must be reserved for rare and moving occasions - like when someone remembers it is the object of theory that is the object of theory. Cheers, Rob. what is this "manly cyber-hug"? (smile!) Mine Please find attached one manly cyber-hug, Justin..
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Brad, Thank you very much the for sending the summary of the bill. I only skimmed through it briefly. I know that Carl Linder with got some provisions put in the bill that makes the retaliation against Europe stronger regarding his banana interests. I also noticed that the bill was concerned about the elimination of corruption. What is the record of United States regarding corruption? Our political campaigns are nothing more than organized bribery. Is it possible for a non-corrupt politicians to get elected to anything higher than the City Council in a small town? How many corrupt leaders has United States propped up around the world? One final question: if the bill is about tariffs why is it so long? -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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My understand of the shift from hunting and gathering to agriculture is that nutritional standards did decline, but so did the risk of starvation. Agricultural output was less uncertain. Rod Jim Devine wrote: At 02:33 AM 05/13/2000 -0700, you wrote: On Fri, 12 May 2000, Louis Proyect wrote: very often of a seasonal nature. If you read Juliette Schor's "The Overworked American", you will discover that the average peasant worked half as many hours as the average proletarian during the rise of the industrial revolution. That is the reason resistance to the Enclosure Acts and bans on hunting was so fierce. But didn't this have to do with limited food sources and chronic disease and malnutrition? Peasant societies couldn't sustain year-round work efforts simply because most folks were hungry most of the time (no refrigeration, few reserves, salt was a luxury, etc.), right? it has a lot to do with the fact that agricultural is by its very nature seasonal. Schor specifically refers to the change from the peasant agriculture of the European Middle Ages to capitalism. During the Middle Ages, many of the Catholic Church's saints days were actually celebrated -- except during planting and harvest time -- so that work hours per year rose with the transition to capitalism. (I think it's a good idea to avoid the myth of unilineal and no-downside progress. There is also a lot of evidence that living standards fell with the transition from hunting and gathering to farming. But of course, it's mixed.) Most pre-capitalist societies had high death rates rather than lots of chronic diseases, as I understand it. Those who survived the infant phase are tough critters, who lived about "3 score and 10" if they survived waves of plagues. Also, there are a lot of ways to keep reserves besides using salt, such as smoking meat. As others have noted, the standard of living of peasants also depends on the rate of exploitation by the lords, the state, the Church, etc. Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://liberalarts.lmu.edu/~JDevine -- Rod Hay [EMAIL PROTECTED] The History of Economic Thought Archive http://socserv2.mcmaster.ca/~econ/ugcm/3ll3/index.html Batoche Books http://Batoche.co-ltd.net/ 52 Eby Street South Kitchener, Ontario N2G 3L1 Canada
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In a message dated 00-05-13 17:05:51 EDT, you write: Either that or people actually *liked* having their teeth fall out... Brad DeLong Hey, Brad, revealed preferences, right? --jks
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At 01:35 PM 05/13/2000 -0400, you wrote: My understand of the shift from hunting and gathering to agriculture is that nutritional standards did decline, but so did the risk of starvation. Agricultural output was less uncertain. Maybe, but it's not unmixed progress. It's more a matter of a trade-off (which was my point). Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://liberalarts.lmu.edu/~JDevine
