Re: apo 2
On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 11:51:43AM -0400, John Porter wrote: @pi are square; Pi are round. Cake are square. -- Tad McClellan SGML consulting [EMAIL PROTECTED] Perl programming Fort Worth, Texas
Re: Perl culture, perl readabillity
On Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 11:34:41PM +0100, Otto Wyss wrote: As a developer since a quarter century but only a few months in Perl I'm closely following the process of creating Perl6. This might come from the fact Perl was/is designed by english speaking people. It seems that the complexity of english writing is directly integrated into Perl. I don't know about the influence of English over other languages, but Larry specifically designed Perl to be more like natural language than most other programming languages. In case you haven't seen it yet: "Natural Language Principles in Perl" http://www.wall.org/~larry/natural.html -- Tad McClellan SGML consulting [EMAIL PROTECTED] Perl programming Fort Worth, Texas
Re: Schwartzian Transform
On Mon, Mar 26, 2001 at 05:44:43PM -0500, John Porter wrote: Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote: It's all about reduction to primitive-comparable and the relative cost of it. You're right. Extraction of fields is only one example. (But it's illustrative, no?) I like to use sorting filenames based on the file's size as an example. Nothing like throwing some disk accesses into it if slow is what you seek. -- Tad McClellan SGML consulting [EMAIL PROTECTED] Perl programming Fort Worth, Texas
What will the Perl6 code name be? (again)
Sorry to mention the code name thing again, I thought the whole endeavor rather silly. But I just stumbled upon the dictionary definition below, so I submit it for due (mis)consideration: pearly everlasting: n. A rhizomatous plant (Anaphalis margaritacea) with long-lasting whitish flower heads. Seems applicable: Has the phonetic equivalent thing going. Perl 6 is to be "the last Perl". And we could claim to drink margaritas instead of coffee/cola/Jolt. I suggest we refrain from doing anything with that "phalis" part though... :-) -- Tad McClellan SGML consulting [EMAIL PROTECTED] Perl programming Fort Worth, Texas
Re: new to perl
[ Cc'd to OP ] On Tue, Oct 24, 2000 at 12:00:48PM +0100, Ajdin Brandic wrote: I have this perl script Your message is completely off-topic on this mailing list. Please do not abuse mailing lists like that. This mailing list is for discussion of Perl *6* (note the mailing list name). Perl 6 does not yet exist, so nobody can write programs that would be on-topic here. All of the rest of this post is off-topic here. Stop reading now (except for Ajdin :-) You do not have a Perl question. You have a web server setup question. You have asked a bunch of Perl people to help you with a server problem. You will get better answers if you ask a bunch of server people your server question. :-) So, I cannot answer your question, but I have some advice for you nonetheless. Good luck! site. But the problem is that I get an internal server error and as I am new to this I have no idea what it means. I tried the error log file but I cannot understand anything there. The error is "Internal Server Error The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request." Any help welcome, Questions about Perl 5 can be asked on a Perl 5 mailing list, or on one of the comp.lang.perl.* Usenet newsgroups. Questions about CGI and web server setup can be asked on newsgroups for those topics: comp.infosystems.www.authoring.cgi comp.infosystems.www.servers.mac comp.infosystems.www.servers.misc comp.infosystems.www.servers.ms-windows comp.infosystems.www.servers.unix But Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) can never be asked in any of those forums (because they have already been answered, why answer them yet again?). Posting hundred-line programs is also likely to get you ignored. You can search Perl's FAQs using the 'perldoc' program: perldoc -q "Server Error" It finds this one: "My CGI script runs from the command line but not the browser. (500 Server Error)" So your question is off-topic everywhere! (unless you have done what is suggested there and still have the problem) It is obvious that you are completely lost. This is probably due to trying to learn many things all at the same time. I suggest you slow down, and learn one thing at a time. This may not be the case for you, but many people try to learn all of these at once: 1) Usenet see thenews.announce.newusers newsgroup to find out what is socially acceptable in newsgroups. Lurk (read, don't post) in the newsgroup for a few days before posting (or skim several days worth of posts in a news archive such as deja.com). 2) Programming What is a "loop", "array", ... 3) Perl Write some programs that run from the *command line* before trying to write programs that run in the CGI environment. Write little programs before trying big programs. 4) CGI You can write CGI programs in *any language* you like. Many people choose to use Perl, but Perl is not "wedded" to WWW stuff. Perl is not CGI. Ask Perl questions in a Perl newsgroup. Ask CGI questions in a CGI newsgroup. Get your CGI programs working from the command line before trying them on the web server (this is easy to do if you are using the CGI.pm module). Type: perldoc -q CGI to find Perl FAQs that mention CGI. They have lots of pointers to information that you will need. If you cannot determine whether you have a "Perl problem" or a "CGI problem" then you will have a hard time finding help. If you don't have time to learn all of those things, then you will likely need to pay somebody who _has_ learned all of those things. #!/usr/bin/perl You have 2 bugs already. That should be: #!/usr/bin/perl -w use strict; And if you are using forms, make that: #!/usr/bin/perl -wT use strict; Type: perldoc perlrun perldoc perlsec to find about about the '-wT' part. Type: perldoc strict perldoc -f my do find out about the "use strict" part. Please try to find *appropriate* places to ask your questions in the future. -- Tad McClellan SGML consulting [EMAIL PROTECTED] Perl programming Fort Worth, Texas
Re: new to perl
On Tue, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:35:31PM +0100, Ajdin Brandic wrote: Uff! How are you ^^^ Off-topic correspondence directed at an individual should be sent to the individual, not to the mailing list. You have (twice!) wasted the time of hundreds of busy people. I ask you again to please stop it. feeling now? Has your anger gone or is still there? Now that you have doubled the number of your off-topic messages, my anger has correspondingly doubled. What do you expect when you take cuts in line? That nobody will say anything? - In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Larry Wall) wrote: ... Larry [snip] I view a programming language as a place to be Larry explored, like Disneyland. You don't need to have a lot of preparation Larry to explore a theme park. You do have to go along with the crowd Larry control measures, though. In a sense, each ride has its own Larry prerequisites--if you cut in line, you risk getting tossed out of the Larry park. Larry Larry What we have here in this newsgroup is a failure in crowd control. Larry Reading the FAQ is like staying in line--it's something you should Larry learn in kindergarten. Usenet needs a better kindergarten. - Why is there a mailing list for perl6 up and running before the version is out? Err, because somebody has to _make_ Perl 6 or there won't be a Perl 6. Folks like to talk about it some before they start building it. Why is it when you check for perl mailing lists on perl.com only mailing lists for perl6 come up? That doesn't have anything to do with Perl 6 either. Questions about websites should be directed to the webmaster of the website in question. _I_ don't get perl6 mailing lists when I check perl.com. I think the problem may be with the checker, rather than with the web site. When I "Go" after choosing "lists" from the drop-down it lists plenty of non-perl6 lists, including a "List of Perl Mailing Lists" that includes yet more non6 lists. You made a mistake. Apologize and do it right from now on, don't try and wiggle out of it. -- Tad McClellan SGML consulting [EMAIL PROTECTED] Perl programming Fort Worth, Texas
Re: RFC 357 (v1) Perl should use XML for documentation instead of POD
On Mon, Oct 02, 2000 at 10:59:46PM +0200, Bart Lateur wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2000 13:54:47 -0400, Tad McClellan wrote:
Improperly nested tags, or one character it
doesn't recognize... and the parser says "nyet".
I read that as "the machine will tell me when I messed up".
I'd rather have a machine tell me than have to figure it
out myself. I think I claim some of the Good Laziness there :-)
That's not my experience with XML::Parser. It gives some weird error
message, mentions a line number and a column number that doesn't even
exist... and that's it. It's not very helpful. You usually don't even
get any output so you can see where and how you messed up.
It's the same Good Laziness that tells me it's no good.
That is a deficiency in XML::Parser (a tool) not with XML.
I find that nsgmls (with an XMLified SGML Declaration) does
a good job. I always check XML data with nsgmls first.
(nsgmls is an SGML parser, not a XML parser, but I've never
come across bad XML that it lets by...
)
XML::Parser gives bad messages, so XML is bad.
The Blue Screen Of Death is bad, so computers are bad?
[ Puhleeeze don't think that I am defending XML over POD. I am
firmly in the POD camp. So many others are in that camp, that
I just haven't added my aolMe too!/aol ('til now :-)
]
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
Re: Don't require braces
On Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 12:00:49PM +0100, raptor wrote:
I was thinking will it be good if the braces are used but not required for
while $i 10 print $i;
mean
while ($i 10) { print $i };
so,
while $i 10 print $i; print $j;
should become
while ($i 10) { print $i; print $j; }
or
while ($i 10) { print $i; } print $j;
???
How is perl to know?
I know that some will tell that when the condition is more complicated this
more complicated than it is worth, it seems to me.
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
Re: Net::Ping problem
On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 02:51:03PM +0200, Willy wrote: Does anyone know how can i [snip] How can i do?? You cannot do this in perl6 because perl6 does not yet exist. Please do not abuse this mailing list with off-topic questions. Thank you. -- Tad McClellan SGML consulting [EMAIL PROTECTED] Perl programming Fort Worth, Texas
Re: Perl as Pascal (was Re: RFC 16 (v1) Keep default Perl free of constraints su)
On Thu, Aug 03, 2000 at 10:33:21PM -0700, Peter Scott wrote: A constant topic of discussion is how to make Perl more accessible and friendly to the the newcomer, And we will get a chance to discuss that very thing right here, (I already think we 're going to need a sub-list for that one) once I get an RFC (aka: no fun, No::Weird::Stuff, etc) submitted for it. and evidently not enough people or resources are explaining as I do to my classes that -w and strict are essential for everything they write. I won't even show them one-liners without them, I'm that adamant about promoting the practice. aolMe too!/aol I am amazed that I tell them to use both about *20 times* during the course of the course :-), yet I get email questions later that don't have them (which I just bounce and tell them to send it back when it is "clean" if they want me to look at it). I even tell them that it is a "firing offense" to leave them off in projects that I control! Yet they get left off. I guess I should escalate the presentation of their importance by removing my shoe and pounding on the table... Make Perl as safe as possible by default; let people turn off the safety as they get more experienced. Not the other way around. I am for "strict by default" too (if it can be turned off very easily). Things have changed radically with regards to who "Perl Users" are. They used to be "programmers" (substitute any "technology savvy" name there), who you could trust to know when care was needed and when it wasn't. A significant portion of Perl Users nowadays cannot be trusted with that decision. It would be helpful if perl6 made the Right Decision for them. Old-guard Perl Users will have no trouble reading the docs to find out how to turn strict off. A depressing portion of today's Perl Users won't find out how to Be Good if it is not already on :-( I (along with nearly everybody else here, I expect) do *not* want to change Perl from a "power programming tool" to a "teaching language" (despite the Subject here). But we can at least make "shoot me in the foot" harder to spell :-) This is Yet Another aspect of getting wider acceptance of perl6 in industry/academia than perl5 can get. -- Tad McClellan SGML consulting [EMAIL PROTECTED] Perl programming Fort Worth, Texas
wantarray() should be named wantlist() (was Re: date interface (was Re: perl6 requirements, on bootstrap))
On Thu, Aug 03, 2000 at 10:53:02AM +0100, Hildo Biersma wrote: If functions could distinguish between 'wantarray' and 'wanthahs' this would be easy to do. Due to the recent "rename local()" and "can't return an array" discussions here, we should also consider "rename wantarray()" as well. It should be named wantlist(), because it does not tell you if it wants an array, it tells you whether you were called in list context or not. I will RFCify this within the next few days (unless someone can shoot it down right now). Tangentially related: If the list/array distinction is retained in Perl 6, the docs need to be much more careful about not misusing the terms. There are (at least) dozens of loosy-goosy uses of "array" where "list" is more accurate. (off-topic here, but I'm patiently waiting for a "docs list" to be established before letting lose with several RFCs regarding documentation, markup, indexing/searching, audience level, etc... Please don't reply to this tangent part, let's wait for a "docs list". Nat, Can we set one of those up now, or should we wait until Ziggy can breathe? ) -- Tad McClellan SGML consulting [EMAIL PROTECTED] Perl programming Fort Worth, Texas
Re: RFC: lexical variables made default
On Wed, Aug 02, 2000 at 08:45:04AM -0600, Tom Christiansen wrote: On Tue, 1 Aug 2000 23:43:24 -0500, Jonathan Scott Duff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (I, for one, support renaming local() to Something Better (if only I know what that was)) Anything one chooses potentially conflicts with the user's namespace, but probably save() or temp() would be better, or even savetemp() or tempsave() or scopetemp(). or saveval()# indicates it is about _values_, not about variables tempval() or saverestore()# name says what the operator does or myval() # my _value_, not my(variable) or even pushpop() # maybe not :-) -- Tad McClellan SGML consulting [EMAIL PROTECTED] Perl programming Fort Worth, Texas
