Re: [DOCS] Example non-Latin words for text search parser docs?

2007-10-25 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Tom Lane wrote:
> Alvaro Herrera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Actually I was wondering if we should use actual words.  So instead of
> > "foo" we could use "elephant" for asciiword and "Éléphant" (french) for
> > word.  And for the hword, "sous-espèces" (which appears on the French
> > Wikipedia) would do.
> 
> Hmm ... I see a potential problem with that, which is that if someone
> happened to be viewing the page on something that dropped the accents,
> or even just made them too small to be easily readable, the examples
> wouldn't make any sense at all.
> 
> I have no problem with "elephant" as a sample asciiword, but for the
> sample non-ascii word I'd suggest something that (a) is clearly not
> English and (b) as much as possible, everybody knows has an accent.
> At least in large parts of the US, something like "mañana" would
> work nicely.

OK I went with that.  I also used real spanish hyphenated words in the
hword examples.  I also changed the domains foo.com to example.com, just
because I'm anal enough to do it.

The hword_asciipart I'm not 100% sure about.  I used this:

militar in the context político-militar, or postgresql in the
context postgresql-beta1

What I wanted to emphasize here is that it's the "ascii-ness" of the
part that matters, not that of the complete token.  The reason I'm not
sure about it is that it makes the table wider.

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Re: [DOCS] Example non-Latin words for text search parser docs?

2007-10-25 Thread Tom Lane
Alvaro Herrera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> The hword_asciipart I'm not 100% sure about.  I used this:
>   militar in the context político-militar, or postgresql in the
>   context postgresql-beta1

Hmm ... I went and looked at the page on developer.postgresql.org,
and it's just as I feared: with slightly bleary morning eyes, the
accents over the i's are not obvious, and so you have to look *real*
close before you get the point of the examples.  It doesn't help that
'politico' with no accent is exactly how the phrase would be spelled
in English, and so it's easy to not see the accent because you're not
expecting one.  The other examples seem alright, but I think that one's
a bad choice.

regards, tom lane

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Re: [DOCS] Example non-Latin words for text search parser docs?

2007-10-25 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Tom Lane wrote:
> Alvaro Herrera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > The hword_asciipart I'm not 100% sure about.  I used this:
> > militar in the context pol�tico-militar, or postgresql in the
> > context postgresql-beta1
> 
> Hmm ... I went and looked at the page on developer.postgresql.org,
> and it's just as I feared: with slightly bleary morning eyes, the
> accents over the i's are not obvious, and so you have to look *real*
> close before you get the point of the examples.  It doesn't help that
> 'politico' with no accent is exactly how the phrase would be spelled
> in English, and so it's easy to not see the accent because you're not
> expecting one.  The other examples seem alright, but I think that one's
> a bad choice.

Damn.  Ok, I'll search for a different example.  We're making progress
nonetheless ;-)

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Re: [DOCS] Example non-Latin words for text search parser docs?

2007-10-25 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> Tom Lane wrote:
> > Alvaro Herrera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > The hword_asciipart I'm not 100% sure about.  I used this:
> > >   militar in the context pol?tico-militar, or postgresql in the
> > >   context postgresql-beta1
> > 
> > Hmm ... I went and looked at the page on developer.postgresql.org,
> > and it's just as I feared: with slightly bleary morning eyes, the
> > accents over the i's are not obvious, and so you have to look *real*
> > close before you get the point of the examples.  It doesn't help that
> > 'politico' with no accent is exactly how the phrase would be spelled
> > in English, and so it's easy to not see the accent because you're not
> > expecting one.  The other examples seem alright, but I think that one's
> > a bad choice.
> 
> Damn.  Ok, I'll search for a different example.  We're making progress
> nonetheless ;-)

How about "lógico-matemática"?

(If that one doesn't work for you, maybe we should look into words in
another language, more different from english.  Maybe Magnus can suggest
hyphenated words with weird letters).

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Re: [DOCS] Example non-Latin words for text search parser docs?

2007-10-25 Thread Peter Eisentraut
Am Donnerstag, 25. Oktober 2007 schrieb Tom Lane:
> Hmm ... I went and looked at the page on developer.postgresql.org,
> and it's just as I feared: with slightly bleary morning eyes, the
> accents over the i's are not obvious, and so you have to look *real*
> close before you get the point of the examples.

By that standard, you will have to use non-Latin letters, which might decrease 
the usability of the examples much more.  There are not likely to be any 
Latin-looking letters that are not ASCII and are not resembling another Latin 
letter.

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Re: [DOCS] Example non-Latin words for text search parser docs?

2007-10-25 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> Am Donnerstag, 25. Oktober 2007 schrieb Tom Lane:
> > Hmm ... I went and looked at the page on developer.postgresql.org,
> > and it's just as I feared: with slightly bleary morning eyes, the
> > accents over the i's are not obvious, and so you have to look *real*
> > close before you get the point of the examples.
> 
> By that standard, you will have to use non-Latin letters, which might 
> decrease 
> the usability of the examples much more.  There are not likely to be any 
> Latin-looking letters that are not ASCII and are not resembling another Latin 
> letter.

I think it would suffice to use an accent over a vowel that's not an i.

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Re: [DOCS] Example non-Latin words for text search parser docs?

2007-10-25 Thread Tom Lane
Alvaro Herrera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Peter Eisentraut wrote:
>> Am Donnerstag, 25. Oktober 2007 schrieb Tom Lane:
>>> Hmm ... I went and looked at the page on developer.postgresql.org,
>>> and it's just as I feared: with slightly bleary morning eyes, the
>>> accents over the i's are not obvious, and so you have to look *real*
>>> close before you get the point of the examples.
>> 
>> By that standard, you will have to use non-Latin letters, which might 
>> decrease 
>> the usability of the examples much more.  There are not likely to be any 
>> Latin-looking letters that are not ASCII and are not resembling another 
>> Latin 
>> letter.

> I think it would suffice to use an accent over a vowel that's not an i.

Yeah, that would help.  But the real problem with pol?tico-militar
is that it looks way too much like the English equivalent --- my first
reaction was "huh, he forgot the 'y'".  I'm after a word that *looks*
not-English.  Alvaro's comment that maybe we need to look to something
besides Spanish seems on point.

regards, tom lane

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Re: [DOCS] Example non-Latin words for text search parser docs?

2007-10-25 Thread Tom Lane
Alvaro Herrera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> How about "lógico-matemática"?

Works for me.

regards, tom lane

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[DOCS] Pattern for use of the alias "Postgres"

2007-10-25 Thread Bruce Momjian
[ BCC to docs because this might affect documentation too.]

You probably remember the discussion about promoting the use of the
alias "Postgres" in addition to the official name "PostgreSQL".  I have
changed the FAQ so that in paragraphs with multiple references to
"PostgreSQL" we also use the alias "Postgres".

I have talked about a similar change to our documentation and perhaps
the web site, but I am _not_ ready to discuss those.

What I want to ask about is an idea a few people have mentioned.  They
don't like that we change usage in the same paragraph.  The suggestion
is to mention that "Postgres" is an alias to "PostgreSQL" at the top of
the document and just use "Postgres" in the remainder of the document.

This seems like a lot more use of the alias than I though we wanted as a
group, but because several of the people suggesting this also didn't
want the alias at all, I figure I should ask and we can discuss it.

So, for the FAQ, which currently uses the second-entry-per-paragraph
logic, should it be changed to the logic suggested above where every
mention but the first is "Postgres"?  (This will of course affect the
documentation changes when we are ready to discuss those.)

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Re: [DOCS] Pattern for use of the alias "Postgres"

2007-10-25 Thread Peter Eisentraut
Bruce Momjian wrote:
> So, for the FAQ, which currently uses the second-entry-per-paragraph
> logic, should it be changed to the logic suggested above where every
> mention but the first is "Postgres"?  (This will of course affect the
> documentation changes when we are ready to discuss those.)

Just undo the whole thing.  The project name is what it is.

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Re: [pgsql-advocacy] [DOCS] Pattern for use of the alias "Postgres"

2007-10-25 Thread Devrim GÜNDÜZ
On Thu, 2007-10-25 at 21:44 +0200, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > So, for the FAQ, which currently uses the second-entry-per-paragraph
> > logic, should it be changed to the logic suggested above where every
> > mention but the first is "Postgres"?  (This will of course affect
> the
> > documentation changes when we are ready to discuss those.)
> 
> Just undo the whole thing.  The project name is what it is. 

+1.

Regards,
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Re: [pgsql-advocacy] [DOCS] Pattern for use of the alias "Postgres"

2007-10-25 Thread Bruce Momjian
Devrim G?ND?Z wrote:
-- Start of PGP signed section.
> On Thu, 2007-10-25 at 21:44 +0200, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> > Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > > So, for the FAQ, which currently uses the second-entry-per-paragraph
> > > logic, should it be changed to the logic suggested above where every
> > > mention but the first is "Postgres"?  (This will of course affect
> > the
> > > documentation changes when we are ready to discuss those.)
> > 
> > Just undo the whole thing.  The project name is what it is. 
> 
> +1.

Let's not get sidetracked here.  There was already agreement in advocacy
to promote the use of the alias, and this thread is to discuss that, not
to revisit whether we should use an alias or not.  If you want to bring
up that issue, start a thread and try to get agreement on it.

-- 
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Re: [pgsql-advocacy] [DOCS] Pattern for use of the alias "Postgres"

2007-10-25 Thread Joshua D. Drake
On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:10:31 -0400 (EDT)
Bruce Momjian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


> > > Just undo the whole thing.  The project name is what it is. 
> > 
> > +1.
> 
> Let's not get sidetracked here.  There was already agreement in
> advocacy to promote the use of the alias, and this thread is to
> discuss that, not to revisit whether we should use an alias or not.
> If you want to bring up that issue, start a thread and try to get
> agreement on it.
> 

Woah, let's be very clear here. There was zero agreement to promote the
name postgres. There was agreement to state that Postgres was an
acceptable form of the word PostgreSQL.

Which I do still agree with, but that is far from "promoting". 

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake


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Re: [pgsql-advocacy] [DOCS] Pattern for use of the alias "Postgres"

2007-10-25 Thread Devrim GÜNDÜZ
Hi,

On Thu, 2007-10-25 at 16:10 -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> There was already agreement in advocacy to promote the use of the
> alias, 

Really?
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Re: [pgsql-advocacy] [DOCS] Pattern for use of the alias "Postgres"

2007-10-25 Thread Bruce Momjian
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
-- Start of PGP signed section.
> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:10:31 -0400 (EDT)
> Bruce Momjian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> > > > Just undo the whole thing.  The project name is what it is. 
> > > 
> > > +1.
> > 
> > Let's not get sidetracked here.  There was already agreement in
> > advocacy to promote the use of the alias, and this thread is to
> > discuss that, not to revisit whether we should use an alias or not.
> > If you want to bring up that issue, start a thread and try to get
> > agreement on it.
> > 
> 
> Woah, let's be very clear here. There was zero agreement to promote the
> name postgres. There was agreement to state that Postgres was an
> acceptable form of the word PostgreSQL.
> 
> Which I do still agree with, but that is far from "promoting". 

Here is a thread where I propose the "promoting" idea and general
agreement on it:

http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-advocacy/2007-09/msg00257.php

and here is where I think you are agreeing to do such promotion in the
FAQ, at least:

http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-advocacy/2007-09/msg00279.php

I have the email addresses and opinions of a majority of advocacy
posters.  I can post it again if you want or we can go through this all
again, probably with the same result.

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Re: [pgsql-advocacy] [DOCS] Pattern for use of the alias "Postgres"

2007-10-25 Thread Devrim GÜNDÜZ
Hi Bruce,

On Thu, 2007-10-25 at 16:50 -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> I have the email addresses and opinions of a majority of advocacy
> posters.  I can post it again if you want or we can go through this
> all again, probably with the same result.

So you say -advocacy list members are the ones who can change project's
name? Interesting.

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Re: [pgsql-advocacy] [DOCS] Pattern for use of the alias "Postgres"

2007-10-25 Thread Joshua D. Drake
On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:50:34 -0400 (EDT)
Bruce Momjian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


> > Woah, let's be very clear here. There was zero agreement to promote
> > the name postgres. There was agreement to state that Postgres was an
> > acceptable form of the word PostgreSQL.
> > 
> > Which I do still agree with, but that is far from "promoting". 
> 
> Here is a thread where I propose the "promoting" idea and general
> agreement on it:
> 
>   http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-advocacy/2007-09/msg00257.php
> 
> and here is where I think you are agreeing to do such promotion in the
> FAQ, at least:
> 
>   http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-advocacy/2007-09/msg00279.php

No. That was me stating that the current FAQ stating that Postgres was
an acceptable form of PostgreSQL was enough. Which I do still agree
with.

I have stated that *if* we were going to make wholesale documentation
changes that we should do it in the form of PostgreSQL, hereafter known
as Postgres...

I don't like it but I believe it would be a fair compromise.

> 
> I have the email addresses and opinions of a majority of advocacy
> posters.  I can post it again if you want or we can go through this
> all again, probably with the same result.
> 

You are welcome to bring it up again. I am not going to. I find the
issue currently closed with the FAQ entry.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

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Re: [pgsql-advocacy] [DOCS] Pattern for use of the alias "Postgres"

2007-10-25 Thread Bruce Momjian
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> > > Woah, let's be very clear here. There was zero agreement to promote
> > > the name postgres. There was agreement to state that Postgres was an
> > > acceptable form of the word PostgreSQL.
> > > 
> > > Which I do still agree with, but that is far from "promoting". 
> > 
> > Here is a thread where I propose the "promoting" idea and general
> > agreement on it:
> > 
> > http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-advocacy/2007-09/msg00257.php
> > 
> > and here is where I think you are agreeing to do such promotion in the
> > FAQ, at least:
> > 
> > http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-advocacy/2007-09/msg00279.php
> 
> No. That was me stating that the current FAQ stating that Postgres was
> an acceptable form of PostgreSQL was enough. Which I do still agree
> with.

OK, I misunderstood then.  I was asking where to promote it and you were
saying just the FAQ which I thought meant promote usage in the FAQ.
Sorry.

> I have stated that *if* we were going to make wholesale documentation
> changes that we should do it in the form of PostgreSQL, hereafter known
> as Postgres...
> 
> I don't like it but I believe it would be a fair compromise.

Yea, I think so.  If we make that change we could go until 8.4 beta and
then see how we are doing with making an easily-prounced alias name.  We
might need to make no further changes, or we might want to change it
back for some reason.

I will give another 1-2 days for feedback on the "pattern" usage issue.
So far I think everyone so far has said they like just a first mention
of PostgreSQL in the document and then Postgres in the rest of the
document _if_ we are going to do that.

Then I will start a new thread to ask about actually doing that change.

I thought the second-in-paragraph style was minimal because it is like,
e.g. "Bill Cohen was caught stealing.  Cohen was seen under the bushes
on Cobbs Lane.".  Or with Coke, "Coca-cola is expense.  Coke is also bad
for you".  But it seems people don't like that usage in practice.

(FYI, I see some "Postgres" mentions have gotten in the 8.3 release
notes already from Tom.  I will have to adjust those once we make a
final decision, but you can see how it looks now.)

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Re: [pgsql-advocacy] [DOCS] Pattern for use of the alias "Postgres"

2007-10-25 Thread Peter Eisentraut
Bruce Momjian wrote:
> Let's not get sidetracked here.  There was already agreement in
> advocacy to promote the use of the alias, and this thread is to
> discuss that, not to revisit whether we should use an alias or not.

Advocacy opinions have no bearing on proper documentation writing.  Nor 
do I believe that there was an actual agreement.

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Re: [pgsql-advocacy] [DOCS] Pattern for use of the alias "Postgres"

2007-10-25 Thread Bruce Momjian
Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > Let's not get sidetracked here. ?There was already agreement in
> > advocacy to promote the use of the alias, and this thread is to
> > discuss that, not to revisit whether we should use an alias or not.
> 
> Advocacy opinions have no bearing on proper documentation writing.  Nor 
> do I believe that there was an actual agreement.

I disagree.

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[DOCS] Example of plpgsql RETURN NEXT

2007-10-25 Thread Bruce Momjian
Seems we never had an example in the documentation of plpgsql RETURN
NEXT.  I got a submission from Ulrich Kroener and have applied it,
attached.

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Index: doc/src/sgml/plpgsql.sgml
===
RCS file: /cvsroot/pgsql/doc/src/sgml/plpgsql.sgml,v
retrieving revision 1.116
diff -c -c -r1.116 plpgsql.sgml
*** doc/src/sgml/plpgsql.sgml	25 Jul 2007 04:19:08 -	1.116
--- doc/src/sgml/plpgsql.sgml	26 Oct 2007 01:09:08 -
***
*** 1411,1426 
   
  
   
!   Functions that use RETURN NEXT or
!   RETURN QUERY should be called in the
!   following fashion:
  
  
! SELECT * FROM some_func();
  
  
!   That is, the function must be used as a table source in a
!   FROM clause.
   
  
   
--- 1411,1447 
   
  
   
!   Here is an example of a function using RETURN
!   NEXT:
  
  
! CREATE TABLE foo (fooid INT, foosubid INT, fooname TEXT);
! INSERT INTO foo VALUES (1, 2, 'three');
! INSERT INTO foo VALUES (4, 5, 'six');
! 
! CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION getAllFoo() RETURNS SETOF foo AS
! $BODY$
! DECLARE
! r foo%rowtype;
! BEGIN
! FOR r IN SELECT * FROM foo
! WHERE fooid > 0
! LOOP
! -- can do some processing here
! RETURN NEXT r; -- return next row of SELECT
! END LOOP;
! RETURN;
! END
! $BODY$
! LANGUAGE 'plpgsql' ;
! 
! SELECT * FROM getallfoo();
  
  
!   Note that functions using RETURN NEXT or
!   RETURN QUERY must be called as a table source in
!   a FROM clause.
! 
   
  
   

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