Re: Add support for data change delta tables

[Jim Nasby]

On 1/15/24 4:40 AM, Pavel Stehule wrote:
PostgreSQL is not a project where somebody says, you will do this, and 
you will do this, in this and this priority. There are a lot of nice 
features from standard - SQL standard is big, but a) you have to have 
funds to pay the developers, b) you have to have developers with free 
time who want to do free work. Sure, you can write a proposal, but 
without a) money or b) your hard work is not a big possibility so your 
proposal will be implemented in the next few years. With the patch the 
situation is different. Then developers can see, so it is possible to 
implement, and how much code (and work) needs it.


And in this scenario, the big thing that a patch provides is clarity on 
what you're actually trying to accomplish. Your original ask is frankly 
as clear as mud to me - I have no clue what the syntax you showed is 
supposed to be doing.


If you were to ask about something concrete in plain English (vs some 
unspecified SQL syntax) then you'd be much more likely to at least get 
some kind of response about your idea. It's certainly possible to 
convince people on -hackers to work on something that you'd like to see 
done, but the base prerequisite for that is you have to communicate what 
you're actually looking for.

--
Jim Nasby, Data Architect, Austin TX

Re: Add support for data change delta tables

[Adrian Klaver]

On 1/15/24 02:44, Thomas Kellerer wrote:

PavelTurk schrieb am 15.01.2024 um 11:00:

Currently PostgreSQL doesn't support data change delta tables. For example, it 
doesn't support this type of query:

SELECT * FROM NEW TABLE (
 INSERT INTO phone_book
 VALUES ( 'Peter Doe', '555-2323' )
) AS t

PostgreSQL has RETURNING that provides only a subset of this functionality.

So I suggest to add support for data change delta tables. Because this feature 
is more powerful and it is included
in the SQL Standard.


I don't know that syntax, but it seems to me, it's basically this:

with t as (
INSERT INTO phone_book
VALUES ( 'Peter Doe', '555-2323' )
returning *
)
select *
from t;




There is also transition relations:

https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/sql-createtrigger.html

though that involves creating a trigger on a table.

--
Adrian Klaver
adrian.kla...@aklaver.com

Re: Add support for data change delta tables

[Thomas Kellerer]

PavelTurk schrieb am 15.01.2024 um 11:00:
> Currently PostgreSQL doesn't support data change delta tables. For example, 
> it doesn't support this type of query:
> 
> SELECT * FROM NEW TABLE (
> INSERT INTO phone_book
> VALUES ( 'Peter Doe', '555-2323' )
> ) AS t
> 
> PostgreSQL has RETURNING that provides only a subset of this functionality.
> 
> So I suggest to add support for data change delta tables. Because this 
> feature is more powerful and it is included
> in the SQL Standard.

I don't know that syntax, but it seems to me, it's basically this:

with t as (
   INSERT INTO phone_book
   VALUES ( 'Peter Doe', '555-2323' )
   returning *
)
select *
from t;

  

Re: Add support for data change delta tables

[Pavel Stehule]

po 15. 1. 2024 v 11:27 odesílatel PavelTurk 
napsal:

>
> On 1/15/24 12:17 PM, Pavel Stehule wrote:
>
>
>
> po 15. 1. 2024 v 11:11 odesílatel PavelTurk 
> napsal:
>
>>
>> On 1/15/24 12:05 PM, Pavel Stehule wrote:
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> po 15. 1. 2024 v 11:00 odesílatel PavelTurk 
>> napsal:
>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>>
>>> Currently PostgreSQL doesn't support data change delta tables. For example, 
>>> it doesn't support this type of query:
>>>
>>> SELECT * FROM NEW TABLE (
>>>  INSERT INTO phone_book
>>>  VALUES ( 'Peter Doe', '555-2323' )
>>> ) AS t
>>>
>>>
>>> PostgreSQL has RETURNING that provides only a subset of this functionality.
>>>
>>>
>>> So I suggest to add support for data change delta tables. Because this 
>>> feature is more powerful and it is included
>>> in the SQL Standard.
>>>
>>
>> This is the wrong mailing list - probably you should send your proposal
>> to pgsql-hackers.
>>
>>
>> I sent message to pgsql-hackers
>> https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/b85900eb-9e3c-e358-aa8f-5a27b30c17e7%40gmail.com
>> but got no answer. I decided that my message was ignored because I used
>> wrong mailing list.
>>
>> The community development is based on patches. If you propose some
>> feature,  usually you should implement it. Probably nobody will implement
>> it instand you.
>>
>>
>> I am Java developer - I wish, but I can't
>>
>
> I am sorry, but you cannot expect, so somebody will accept your proposal
> extra seriously. Proposing some feature is a simple thing, but implementing
> some not trivial feature requires hundreds of hours of development.
>
>
> To tell the truth I find it rather strange. I know that there is a big
> difference between proposing some feature and implementing it. But all
> projects I came across with work this way -
> you as a user come and propose a feature. The developers of the project
> consider your issue and either accept it to implement or decline it.
>

PostgreSQL is not a project where somebody says, you will do this, and you
will do this, in this and this priority. There are a lot of nice features
from standard - SQL standard is big, but a) you have to have funds to pay
the developers, b) you have to have developers with free time who want to
do free work. Sure, you can write a proposal, but without a) money or b)
your hard work is not a big possibility so your proposal will be
implemented in the next few years. With the patch the situation is
different. Then developers can see, so it is possible to implement, and how
much code (and work) needs it.



> You can check the work on features for Postgres
> https://commitfest.postgresql.org/ and I don't think so there is a lot of
> free capacity for implementing some new features partially redundant to
> already supported features.
>
> Regards
>
> Pavel
>
>
>
>> Best regards, Pavel
>>
>>
>

Re: Add support for data change delta tables

[PavelTurk]

On 1/15/24 12:17 PM, Pavel Stehule wrote:



po 15. 1. 2024 v 11:11 odesílatel PavelTurk mailto:pavelturk2...@gmail.com>> napsal:


On 1/15/24 12:05 PM, Pavel Stehule wrote:

Hi

po 15. 1. 2024 v 11:00 odesílatel PavelTurk mailto:pavelturk2...@gmail.com>> napsal:

Hello all,

Currently PostgreSQL doesn't support data change delta tables. For 
example, it doesn't support this type of query:

SELECT * FROM NEW TABLE (
 INSERT INTO phone_book
 VALUES ( 'Peter Doe', '555-2323' )
) AS t

PostgreSQL has RETURNING that provides only a subset of this 
functionality.

So I suggest to add support for data change delta tables. Because this 
feature is more powerful and it is included
in the SQL Standard.


This is the wrong mailing list - probably you should send your proposal to 
pgsql-hackers.


I sent message to pgsql-hackers 
https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/b85900eb-9e3c-e358-aa8f-5a27b30c17e7%40gmail.com
 

but got no answer. I decided that my message was ignored because I used 
wrong mailing list.


The community development is based on patches. If you propose some feature, 
 usually you should implement it. Probably nobody will implement it instand you.


I am Java developer - I wish, but I can't


I am sorry, but you cannot expect, so somebody will accept your proposal extra 
seriously. Proposing some feature is a simple thing, but implementing some not 
trivial feature requires hundreds of hours of development.



To tell the truth I find it rather strange. I know that there is a big 
difference between proposing some feature and implementing it. But all projects 
I came across with work this way -
you as a user come and propose a feature. The developers of the project 
consider your issue and either accept it to implement or decline it.


You can check the work on features for Postgres https://commitfest.postgresql.org/ 
 and I don't think so there is a lot of 
free capacity for implementing some new features partially redundant to already 
supported features.

Regards

Pavel



Best regards, Pavel

Re: Add support for data change delta tables

[Pavel Stehule]

po 15. 1. 2024 v 11:11 odesílatel PavelTurk 
napsal:

>
> On 1/15/24 12:05 PM, Pavel Stehule wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> po 15. 1. 2024 v 11:00 odesílatel PavelTurk 
> napsal:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>>
>> Currently PostgreSQL doesn't support data change delta tables. For example, 
>> it doesn't support this type of query:
>>
>> SELECT * FROM NEW TABLE (
>>  INSERT INTO phone_book
>>  VALUES ( 'Peter Doe', '555-2323' )
>> ) AS t
>>
>>
>> PostgreSQL has RETURNING that provides only a subset of this functionality.
>>
>>
>> So I suggest to add support for data change delta tables. Because this 
>> feature is more powerful and it is included
>> in the SQL Standard.
>>
>
> This is the wrong mailing list - probably you should send your proposal to
> pgsql-hackers.
>
>
> I sent message to pgsql-hackers
> https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/b85900eb-9e3c-e358-aa8f-5a27b30c17e7%40gmail.com
> but got no answer. I decided that my message was ignored because I used
> wrong mailing list.
>
> The community development is based on patches. If you propose some
> feature,  usually you should implement it. Probably nobody will implement
> it instand you.
>
>
> I am Java developer - I wish, but I can't
>

I am sorry, but you cannot expect, so somebody will accept your proposal
extra seriously. Proposing some feature is a simple thing, but implementing
some not trivial feature requires hundreds of hours of development.

You can check the work on features for Postgres
https://commitfest.postgresql.org/ and I don't think so there is a lot of
free capacity for implementing some new features partially redundant to
already supported features.

Regards

Pavel



> Best regards, Pavel
>
>

Re: Add support for data change delta tables

[PavelTurk]

On 1/15/24 12:05 PM, Pavel Stehule wrote:

Hi

po 15. 1. 2024 v 11:00 odesílatel PavelTurk mailto:pavelturk2...@gmail.com>> napsal:

Hello all,

Currently PostgreSQL doesn't support data change delta tables. For example, 
it doesn't support this type of query:

SELECT * FROM NEW TABLE (
 INSERT INTO phone_book
 VALUES ( 'Peter Doe', '555-2323' )
) AS t

PostgreSQL has RETURNING that provides only a subset of this functionality.

So I suggest to add support for data change delta tables. Because this 
feature is more powerful and it is included
in the SQL Standard.


This is the wrong mailing list - probably you should send your proposal to 
pgsql-hackers.


I sent message to pgsql-hackers 
https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/b85900eb-9e3c-e358-aa8f-5a27b30c17e7%40gmail.com
but got no answer. I decided that my message was ignored because I used wrong 
mailing list.


The community development is based on patches. If you propose some feature,  
usually you should implement it. Probably nobody will implement it instand you.


I am Java developer - I wish, but I can't

Best regards, Pavel

Re: Add support for data change delta tables

[Pavel Stehule]

Hi

po 15. 1. 2024 v 11:00 odesílatel PavelTurk 
napsal:

> Hello all,
>
>
> Currently PostgreSQL doesn't support data change delta tables. For example, 
> it doesn't support this type of query:
>
> SELECT * FROM NEW TABLE (
>  INSERT INTO phone_book
>  VALUES ( 'Peter Doe', '555-2323' )
> ) AS t
>
> PostgreSQL has RETURNING that provides only a subset of this functionality.
>
>
> So I suggest to add support for data change delta tables. Because this 
> feature is more powerful and it is included
> in the SQL Standard.
>

This is the wrong mailing list - probably you should send your proposal to
pgsql-hackers.

https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Developer_FAQ

The community development is based on patches. If you propose some
feature,  usually you should implement it. Probably nobody will implement
it instand you.

Regards

Pavel



>
> Best regards, Pavel
>
>
>