date:20060209

Re: [HACKERS] streamlined standby procedure

2006-02-09 Thread Simon Riggs

On Wed, 2006-02-08 at 11:10 +0100, Csaba Nagy wrote:
 Another issue is that unless you got the archive_command right in the
 master server from the beginning, you will have to restart the server
 once you decide to build your standby... the archive_command is a
 start-up time parameter

Much of your difficulty seems to come from your thinking that this
parameter requires a restart. It doesn't - check it out.

The script need not be complex, you only need to put a wait loop in the
restore script so that it waits for the next log file.

Best Regards, Simon Riggs


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Re: [HACKERS] Schema search for default operator classes (was: [ADMIN] Cross schema Primary Key Indexes problem with datatype in the public schema)

2006-02-09 Thread Martijn van Oosterhout

On Wed, Feb 08, 2006 at 09:04:46PM -0500, Tom Lane wrote:
 http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-admin/2006-02/msg00084.php
 reports a problem with default btree operator classes that are
 not in pg_catalog: you can create a UNIQUE or PRIMARY KEY constraint
 that depends on such an opclass, but then when you pg_dump and
 try to reload, you get something like

snip

 The only other solution I can see is to extend the ADD CONSTRAINT syntax
 to allow explicit specification of an opclass for each column.  This
 might be a good thing to do in itself, but it looks like a new feature
 to me, rather than something we could reasonably apply as a bug fix.
 It would certainly be a much larger code change (affecting both pg_dump
 and the backend) than changing the behavior of GetDefaultOpClass.  And
 it'd not fix the problem for existing dump files, either.
 
 So I'm leaning towards removing the search-path dependency of
 GetDefaultOpClass.  Comments?

I'm for. IMHO, if you give someone has access to the type they should
have access to the supporting machinary. Whoever created the type
probably also created the operator class and intended it to be used.
For a comparison, we don't check the schema on looking up type
input/output functions (well, we don't need to because we have the oid,
but the idea is important).

W.R.T. the other option (per column opclass specification), if we ever
do COLLATE users will be allowed to specify it on a per-column basis
anyway. Then specifying opclasses becomes redundant. I've been
seriously neglecting this patch but hope to get back to it soon...

Have a nice day,
-- 
Martijn van Oosterhout   kleptog@svana.org   http://svana.org/kleptog/
 Patent. n. Genius is 5% inspiration and 95% perspiration. A patent is a
 tool for doing 5% of the work and then sitting around waiting for someone
 else to do the other 95% so you can sue them.


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Re: [HACKERS] streamlined standby procedure

2006-02-09 Thread Csaba Nagy

OK, this is news to me, I recall that last looking at the configuration
docs it was start-up time, but I might be wrong.

[looking up the docs]

OK, citing the 8.1 online docs:

17.5.3. Archiving

archive_command (string)

The shell command to execute to archive a completed segment of
the WAL file series. If this is an empty string (the default),
WAL archiving is disabled. Any %p in the string is replaced by
the absolute path of the file to archive, and any %f is replaced
by the file name only. Use %% to embed an actual % character in
the command. For more information see Section 23.3.1. This
option can only be set at server start or in the postgresql.conf
   ^^^
file. 

It is important for the command to return a zero exit status if
and only if it succeeds. Examples:

archive_command = 'cp %p /mnt/server/archivedir/%f'
archive_command = 'copy %p /mnt/server/archivedir/%f'  # Windows

It's at least confusing... it does say or in the postgresql.conf file too, 
but I must have overlooked that... and the only word is really confusing 
there.

[looking at: http://www.powerpostgresql.com/Downloads/annotated_conf_80.html]

OK, this is what confused me. The annotated conf file states it's a startup 
time parameter.

Well, good to know it's not...

Actually, my needs of PITR/standby building are mostly solved by now, but it's 
sure not an easy ride, and I really wonder if there is any readily available 
script bundle to do it for a windows server...

Maybe a standby-building-tutorial is all what is needed...

Cheers,
Csaba.


 Much of your difficulty seems to come from your thinking that this
 parameter requires a restart. It doesn't - check it out.
 
 The script need not be complex, you only need to put a wait loop in the
 restore script so that it waits for the next log file.
 
 Best Regards, Simon Riggs
 


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Re: [HACKERS] pg_hba.conf alternative

2006-02-09 Thread Q Beukes

To give it to you straight... its just to ease the minds of management.

Someone pointed out to them how easy it really is to access the data, and
this kind of started to make them feel uncomfortable.

They know the admins are very computer literate and that any protection
can be broken by them.

But it's just like information locked inside a cabinet, it can be
accessed by breaking in
right? But employees wont do it, because it's just not ethical to break
into your
employers private stash. But if it was lying on a paper on a desk
somewhere,
even the most honest employee might peek onto it for interest sake.

And this type of information can stir quite a bit, trust me.

That is all I was wondering about, if there was a way to just lock it
inside a
cabinet with a tiny bit more security.

After that you can always take measures to make sure they aren't
installing malicious
software, or taking information home. You can install software like
Tripwire to make
sure the binaries are kept fine, remove gcc and so forth.

Tino Wildenhain wrote:

 Q Beukes schrieb:

 Well,

 I am not looking for 100% security. I know that full access if full
 access,
 and that even if you were to encrypt the system through Postgre the
 determined
 person WILL always be able to get it out if they have system level
 access.

 All I wanted to do was to prevent the basic SQL/Linux literate user from
 accessing
 the databases. At the moment it is very easy for them to access the
 data.

 I trust that they wont go as far as overwriting the system with custom
 compiled
 version, or copying the data and so forth. It just that we would feel
 much better
 if we knew the data wasn't as open as it is now, with a simple pg
 restart it is all
 open?

 Can this only be done by maybe modifying the source to make pg_hba
 fields statically
 compiled into the executable?

 Instead, you might want to read about SELinux.
 You can protect files even to root (unless they
 reboot ;) but really you should have only trusted
 people have admin accounts. How comes you have
 somebody untrusted as admin?

 Regards
 Tino


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[HACKERS] User Defined Types in Java

2006-02-09 Thread Thomas Hallgren


Hi,
I'd like to enable UDT's written in Java and made some initial trial and 
error. I don't get very far. Here's what I do:


I take the 'complex' type example described in '31.11 User-Defined 
Types' and change it to use Java functions (see below). But I get:


 ERROR:  type complex does not exist

as soon as I execute the first CREATE statement. If I change the 
language from java to C and try again, the message is different (and 
more according to the docs):


  NOTICE:  type complex is not yet defined
  DETAIL:  Creating a shell type definition.

The documentation says Creating a new base type requires implementing 
functions to operate on the type in a low-level language, usually C. I 
read that as it would be possible to use other languages. Apparently 
java is not one of them. What can I do to change that?


Kind regards,
Thomas Hallgren


CREATE FUNCTION complex_in(cstring)
   RETURNS complex
   AS 'org.postgresql.pljava.example.Complex.in'
   LANGUAGE java IMMUTABLE STRICT;

CREATE FUNCTION complex_out(complex)
   RETURNS cstring
   AS 'org.postgresql.pljava.example.Complex.out'
   LANGUAGE java IMMUTABLE STRICT;

CREATE FUNCTION complex_recv(internal)
   RETURNS complex
   AS 'org.postgresql.pljava.example.Complext.recv'
   LANGUAGE java IMMUTABLE STRICT;

CREATE FUNCTION complex_send(complex)
   RETURNS bytea
   AS 'org.postgresql.pljava.example.Complext.send'
   LANGUAGE java IMMUTABLE STRICT;

CREATE TYPE complex (
  internallength = 16,
  input = complex_in,
  output = complex_out,
  receive = complex_recv,
  send = complex_send,
  alignment = double
);



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Re: [HACKERS] User Defined Types in Java

2006-02-09 Thread Martijn van Oosterhout

On Thu, Feb 09, 2006 at 01:08:01PM +0100, Thomas Hallgren wrote:
 Hi,
 I'd like to enable UDT's written in Java and made some initial trial and 
 error. I don't get very far. Here's what I do:
 
 I take the 'complex' type example described in '31.11 User-Defined 
 Types' and change it to use Java functions (see below). But I get:
 
  ERROR:  type complex does not exist

If you look at the code it says in a comment:

/*
 * Only C-coded functions can be I/O functions.  We enforce this
 * restriction here mainly to prevent littering the catalogs 
with
 * shell types due to simple typos in user-defined function
 * definitions.
 */
 
However, you could probably work around this like so:

CREATE FUNCTION dummy(cstring) RETURNS complex AS [random existing
function] LANGUAGE INTERNAL;

This will create the shell type. You then create your other functions
and finally the type, at which point you can delete the dummy function
again.

Roundabout, but it should work (I hope). Note, if you have a validator
on your java code that tries to lookup the return type, you might get
some interesting issues.

Have a nice day,
-- 
Martijn van Oosterhout   kleptog@svana.org   http://svana.org/kleptog/
 Patent. n. Genius is 5% inspiration and 95% perspiration. A patent is a
 tool for doing 5% of the work and then sitting around waiting for someone
 else to do the other 95% so you can sue them.


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Re: [HACKERS] Schema search for default operator classes (was: [ADMIN] Cross schema Primary Key Indexes problem with datatype in the public schema)

2006-02-09 Thread Alvaro Herrera

Tom Lane wrote:

 Given that we only allow one default opclass for a datatype regardless
 of schema (see DefineOpClass), it's not really necessary for
 GetDefaultOpClass to restrict its search.  I can think of some corner
 cases involving multiple binary-compatible-datatype matches where the
 restriction might give a unique answer when an unrestricted search would
 not, but I kinda doubt this would ever arise in practice.

How about doing the constrained search first, and revert to the
unconstrained behavior if it doesn't find the desired opclass?

-- 
Alvaro Herrerahttp://www.CommandPrompt.com/
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support

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Re: [HACKERS] User Defined Types in Java

2006-02-09 Thread Thomas Hallgren


Martijn van Oosterhout wrote:

On Thu, Feb 09, 2006 at 01:08:01PM +0100, Thomas Hallgren wrote:

Hi,
I'd like to enable UDT's written in Java and made some initial trial and 
error. I don't get very far. Here's what I do:


I take the 'complex' type example described in '31.11 User-Defined 
Types' and change it to use Java functions (see below). But I get:


 ERROR:  type complex does not exist


If you look at the code it says in a comment:

/*
 * Only C-coded functions can be I/O functions.  We enforce this
 * restriction here mainly to prevent littering the catalogs 
with
 * shell types due to simple typos in user-defined function
 * definitions.
 */
 


Ouch. Any chance of getting this changed? If we can agree on a good design I'd be happy to 
implement and submit it.



However, you could probably work around this like so:

CREATE FUNCTION dummy(cstring) RETURNS complex AS [random existing
function] LANGUAGE INTERNAL;

This will create the shell type. You then create your other functions
and finally the type, at which point you can delete the dummy function
again.



Great. Thanks. Then at least I can test if what I have in mind is feasible.


Roundabout, but it should work (I hope). Note, if you have a validator
on your java code that tries to lookup the return type, you might get
some interesting issues.



I don't yet. But I'll keep it in mind to watch out for shell types once I do.

Regards,
Thomas Hallgren


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Re: [HACKERS] User Defined Types in Java

2006-02-09 Thread Martijn van Oosterhout

On Thu, Feb 09, 2006 at 01:53:13PM +0100, Thomas Hallgren wrote:
 If you look at the code it says in a comment:
 
 /*
  * Only C-coded functions can be I/O functions.  We 
  enforce this
  * restriction here mainly to prevent littering the 
  catalogs with
  * shell types due to simple typos in user-defined function
  * definitions.
  */
  
 
 Ouch. Any chance of getting this changed? If we can agree on a good design 
 I'd be happy to implement and submit it.

Actually, I'm think this whole automatic creation of a shell-type a bit
silly anyway. Why not simply solve the problem directly like so:

CREATE TYPE complex AS SHELL;

or

DECLARE TYPE complex;

Don't beat around the bush, say what you mean.

Thoughts?
-- 
Martijn van Oosterhout   kleptog@svana.org   http://svana.org/kleptog/
 Patent. n. Genius is 5% inspiration and 95% perspiration. A patent is a
 tool for doing 5% of the work and then sitting around waiting for someone
 else to do the other 95% so you can sue them.


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Re: [HACKERS] User Defined Types in Java

2006-02-09 Thread Thomas Hallgren


Martijn van Oosterhout wrote:

On Thu, Feb 09, 2006 at 01:53:13PM +0100, Thomas Hallgren wrote:
  

If you look at the code it says in a comment:

   /*
* Only C-coded functions can be I/O functions.  We 
enforce this
* restriction here mainly to prevent littering the 
catalogs with

* shell types due to simple typos in user-defined function
* definitions.
*/

  
Ouch. Any chance of getting this changed? If we can agree on a good design 
I'd be happy to implement and submit it.



Actually, I'm think this whole automatic creation of a shell-type a bit
silly anyway. Why not simply solve the problem directly like so:

CREATE TYPE complex AS SHELL;

or

DECLARE TYPE complex;

Don't beat around the bush, say what you mean.

Thoughts?
  

I'd perhaps take it even further. Why not just:

CREATE TYPE complex;

similar to an anonymous struct in C. My favorite alternative is to do 
something like this:


CREATE TYPE complex (
   internallength = 16,
   input = complex_in,
   output = complex_out,
   ...
   AS 'filename' LANGUAGE C
);

A construct like that would remove a lot of clutter (and source of 
errors). The IMMUTABLE STRICT along with all return and parameter types 
are pre-defined anyway and the likelihood of the functions living in 
different files (or as in my case, different classes) or using different 
languages for one specific type is second to none.


Regards,
Thomas Hallgren

 





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Re: [HACKERS] pg_hba.conf alternative

2006-02-09 Thread korry

 If you want the data hidden from system administrators, you need to have
 the client encrypt it before storing it. Of course, that will have
 massive implications for your application.

Have you considered storing your data on an encrypted filesystem?  I have no 
idea what kind of performance hit you would suffer, but you wouldn't have to 
change your application at all that way.  Perhaps a private mount so that 
only the postgresql process tree could see the decrypted bits?

-- Korry

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Re: [HACKERS] Schema search for default operator classes (was: [ADMIN] Cross schema Primary Key Indexes problem with datatype in the public schema)

2006-02-09 Thread Tom Lane

Alvaro Herrera [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Tom Lane wrote:
 Given that we only allow one default opclass for a datatype regardless
 of schema (see DefineOpClass), it's not really necessary for
 GetDefaultOpClass to restrict its search.

 How about doing the constrained search first, and revert to the
 unconstrained behavior if it doesn't find the desired opclass?

Seems like rather a lot of work to preserve a behavior that (AFAICS)
isn't even documented anywhere.

regards, tom lane

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Re: [HACKERS] User Defined Types in Java

2006-02-09 Thread Tom Lane

Thomas Hallgren [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 I'd like to enable UDT's written in Java

Does Java really give you enough control over the bit-level
representation of an object for this goal to be considered sane?

In particular, it seems unsafe to use a Java class as a PG UDT,
because the method pointers wouldn't remain the same across
backend runs.

regards, tom lane

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Re: [HACKERS] User Defined Types in Java

2006-02-09 Thread Thomas Hallgren


Tom Lane wrote:

Thomas Hallgren [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  

I'd like to enable UDT's written in Java



Does Java really give you enough control over the bit-level
representation of an object for this goal to be considered sane?

  

Most definitely yes!


In particular, it seems unsafe to use a Java class as a PG UDT,
because the method pointers wouldn't remain the same across
backend runs.

  
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. I assume that all calls would 
come in through the java_call_handler. The java_call_handler will make 
sure that the correct class and method is called. How is that different 
from any other declared function? Or are you thinking of the lifecycle 
of the binary data versus the lifecycle of the methods that manipulate 
it? They might be different and that might cause problems. But that's 
true for a UDT defined in C as well.


Regards,
Thomas Hallgren


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Re: [HACKERS] User Defined Types in Java

2006-02-09 Thread Tom Lane

Martijn van Oosterhout kleptog@svana.org writes:
 Actually, I'm think this whole automatic creation of a shell-type a bit
 silly anyway. Why not simply solve the problem directly like so:

 CREATE TYPE complex AS SHELL;

One of the unwritten consequences of the way that it works now is that
only superusers can clutter the catalogs with shell types.  Not sure
how important that is, but I suspect that the system is not all that
robust against use of shell types where a completed type is expected.
You'd have to go over a lot of code with a fine-tooth comb before
putting this ability into the hands of ordinary users, else you'd be
creating loopholes for DOS attacks (or worse).

Having said that, I agree that this seems conceptually cleaner, though
I'm not sure we could ever get rid of the old way because of backward
compatibility issues.

regards, tom lane

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Re: [HACKERS] pg_hba.conf alternative

2006-02-09 Thread Andrew Dunstan


korry wrote:


If you want the data hidden from system administrators, you need to have
the client encrypt it before storing it. Of course, that will have
massive implications for your application.
   



Have you considered storing your data on an encrypted filesystem?  I have no 
idea what kind of performance hit you would suffer, but you wouldn't have to 
change your application at all that way.  Perhaps a private mount so that 
only the postgresql process tree could see the decrypted bits?


 



Since what he is worried about is the ability of admins to get at the 
data by connecting to the postgres server (after changing pg_hba.conf), 
this will not make the slightest difference - the data would be 
decrypted before it ever got to the intruder.


For encryption to be effective against some perceived threat, the data 
has to be encrypted before it gets anywhere the spy can see it.


There really are no magic solutions.

Unfortunately, there is not a similar shortage of snake oil.

cheers

andrew


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Re: [HACKERS] User Defined Types in Java

2006-02-09 Thread Andrew Dunstan


Tom Lane wrote:


Martijn van Oosterhout kleptog@svana.org writes:
 


Actually, I'm think this whole automatic creation of a shell-type a bit
silly anyway. Why not simply solve the problem directly like so:
   



 


CREATE TYPE complex AS SHELL;
   



One of the unwritten consequences of the way that it works now is that
only superusers can clutter the catalogs with shell types.  
 


I suppose we could restrict this variant to superusers, at least initially.

[snip]


Having said that, I agree that this seems conceptually cleaner, though
I'm not sure we could ever get rid of the old way because of backward
compatibility issues.





They are not mutually exclusive, are they? I too like Martijn's suggestion.

cheers

andrew

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[HACKERS] PostgreSQL 8.0.6 crash

2006-02-09 Thread Mark Woodward

PostgreSQL promptly uses all available memory for the query and
subsequently crashes.

I'm sure it can be corrected with a setting, but should it crash?

freedb=# create table ucode as select distinct ucode from cdtitles group
by ucode having count(ucode)1 ;
server closed the connection unexpectedly
This probably means the server terminated abnormally
before or while processing the request.
The connection to the server was lost. Attempting reset: Failed.

(Table layout)
freedb=# \d cdtitles
  Table public.cdtitles
  Column   |   Type| Modifiers
---+---+---
 cdid  | integer   | default nextval('seq_cdid'::text)
 cdcode| character varying |
 ucode | character varying |
 title | character varying |
 artist| character varying |
 genre | character varying |
 dgenre| character varying |
 year  | integer   |
 processed | character varying |
 submit| character varying |
 revision  | integer   |
 disclen   | integer   |
 tracks| integer   |
 extkey| integer   |
 offsets   | integer[] |
Indexes:
cdtitles_ucode btree (ucode) CLUSTER

(Size of table)
freedb=# select count(*) from cdtitles ;
  count
-
 1927912
(1 row)

(Sample row)
freedb=# select * from cdtitles where cdid = 11 limit 1;
  cdid  |  cdcode  | ucode |  title   |  
artist   | genre | dgenre | year |processed 
  | submit  | revision | disclen | tracks | extkey |
   offsets
+--+---+--++---++--+-+-+--+-+++---
 11 | 320e9e14 | 0ea0-14-3399-0006ad6a | Var Slutar V#65533;arna
(CD1) | Streaplers | rock  ||0 | cddbd v1.5PL3 Copyright (c)
Steve Scherf et al. | dBpowerAMP V4.0 |0 | | 19 |
   |
{21,150,13920,31180,43664,59907,73163,86629,98447,113684,130205,141682,154920,166783,179028,192689,205161,222164,234649,249692,264340,3744,0}
(1 row

postgresql.conf
Description: Binary data

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Re: [HACKERS] streamlined standby procedure

2006-02-09 Thread Marko Kreen

On 2/7/06, Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Andrew Rawnsley [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  IMHO the #1 priority in the current PITR/WAL shipping system is to make the
  standby able to tolerate being shut down and restarted, i.e. actually having
  a true standby mode and not the current method of doing it only on startup.

 How is shutting down the standby a good idea?  Seems like that will
 block the master too --- or at least result in WAL log files piling up
 rapidly.  If the standby goes off-line, abandoning it and starting from
 a fresh base backup when you are ready to restart it seems like the most
 likely recovery path.  For sure I don't see this as the #1 priority.

For regular recovery it is indeed unnecessary.  But I would also
put this as #1 TODO for long-running hot-standby case.  The requirement
to start all over makes current setup rather cumbersome.

And #2 would be running read-only queries while in recovery :)

--
marko

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[HACKERS] Feature request - Add microsecond as a time unit for interval

2006-02-09 Thread David Tulloh

The interval datatype can go to microsecond precision though currently 
the smallest unit is seconds.  Microseconds are represented as decimal 
places, eg 5 microseconds is 0.05 seconds.


To insert microseconds I have to use the following line, ($1*0.01 || 
' seconds')::interval
Being able to specify microseconds as a unit would avoid hacks like this 
and improve support for sub-second intervals.



David

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Re: [HACKERS] Upcoming re-releases

2006-02-09 Thread Alexander Schreiber

Devrim GUNDUZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,

 On Wed, 2006-02-08 at 11:28 -0500, Stephen Frost wrote:

 I'd really like to see the multiple DB connections with different
 Kerberos credentials go in to 8.1.3.  It solved the problem we were
 having authenticating to PostgreSQL using Kerberos from Apache.  We were
 also able to get phppgadmin to use Kerberos authentication with this
 patch (which is very nice).  That patch also went into the 8.1.2-2
 release of the Debian packages 

 [OT]
 So Debian has a patch that is not in 8.1.2? I can't believe that they
 are doing that -- personally I'm against to add any patch into binaries
 that is not in the core.
 [/OT]


You haven't been looking too closely at the way some distributions are
building their packages then. At least two of the distributions I use
regularly (Gentoo and Debian) have the habit of adding a load of patches
during package build. And not all of those go back to the upstream, to
put it mildly ...

Regards,
   Alex.
-- 
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
 looks like work.  -- Thomas A. Edison

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[HACKERS] {I} One Information required...

2006-02-09 Thread Premnath, KN

Title: {I} One Information required...

Hi all,

When I try to run initdb id get the messing creating template1 database in c:/postgres/data/base/1 ... Execution of PostgreS

QL by a user with administrative permissions is not permitted. The server must be started under an unprivileged user ID to prevent possible system security compromises. See the documentation for

more information on how to properly start the server.

OS I am using : Windows 2000 Professional

I understand this message. Actually I created a new user postgres with password as different than postgres, also gave permission to the c:\postgres (installation folder) with postgres user permission. When I specify runas /noprofile /user:postgres cmd and then when I specify initdb I am getting the above error message, this is with Postgres 8.1, in the past with postgres 7.x I am not facing this problem.

One surprising observation what I see is that = when I run initdb the cmd shell is showing The files belonging to this database system will be owned by user pk00.

This user must also own the server process. where pk00 is the machine what I logged in.

Question:

How to configure initdb to use postgres instead of pk00 user. Anyone kindly help in this regard.

Thank You.

With warm regards,

Premnath.k.n

Siemens Communication Software,

2nd floor, Shankara Narayana Building-1,

25/1 Mahatma Gandhi Road,

Bangalore - 560 001,

India.

Phone: Off : 91-80-2506 2400, 2559 4067 - 73

Extn : 6369

Fax : 91-80-2506 2406

Resi : 91-80-28436106

Mobile: 91-98445 19798

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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