Re: [HACKERS] [pgsql-www] Schedule for migration to pglister

[Magnus Hagander]

On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 5:00 PM, Tom Lane  wrote:

> Magnus Hagander  writes:
> > On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 4:46 PM, Tom Lane  wrote:
> >> Hm, around here it's no match -> spam bucket.  But in any case, why
>
> > I think you're quite uncommon in that setup.
>
> Interesting, because "it's not addressed to me (or any list I'm on)"
> is the best single spam filtering rule I know, and has been for a
> decade or two.
>

Oh, I think I misunderstood you. I thought you meant "any list tagged email
that's for a list I don't know what it is". As in "list-id exists but is
unknown".

The way you explain there makes a lot more sense. I think not many people
do that either, mainly since gmail/yahoo/whatnot doesn't make it very easy
to do that. But it does make a lot more sense that way.


-- 
 Magnus Hagander
 Me: https://www.hagander.net/ 
 Work: https://www.redpill-linpro.com/ 

Re: [HACKERS] [pgsql-www] Schedule for migration to pglister

[Tom Lane]

Magnus Hagander  writes:
> On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 4:46 PM, Tom Lane  wrote:
>> Hm, around here it's no match -> spam bucket.  But in any case, why

> I think you're quite uncommon in that setup.

Interesting, because "it's not addressed to me (or any list I'm on)"
is the best single spam filtering rule I know, and has been for a
decade or two.

But we veer far off topic here.  Do as you will.

regards, tom lane


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Re: [HACKERS] [pgsql-www] Schedule for migration to pglister

[Magnus Hagander]

On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 4:46 PM, Tom Lane  wrote:

> Magnus Hagander  writes:
> > On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 4:40 PM, Tom Lane  wrote:
> >> I suggest doing that the other way 'round.  Otherwise, the email
> >> about the change will inevitably go into a lot of peoples' bit
> >> buckets if they haven't adjusted their mail filters yet.
>
> > The argument for doing it after the migration is that the complaints that
> > we have received so far have all been from people where email ends up in
> > the *inbox* after the migration, not the bitbucket. That's the default
> > action in most peoples MUAs when their rules no longer match...
>
> Hm, around here it's no match -> spam bucket.  But in any case, why
>

I think you're quite uncommon in that setup. For obvious reasons, but I've
never heard of anybody other than you doing that :)



> would you not want to send it before so that it would end up where
> they're accustomed to seeing the list's traffic?
>

The experience from the pgadmin lists is that a lot of people have the
lists filtered into folders that they don't check often (or at all). So
they don't notice the migraiton message. But they start noticing once all
the list mail shows up in their inbox instead.

It might well be that we end up getting the other half of people when we do
it this order, but we definitely at a *lot* of people in that first bucket.

-- 
 Magnus Hagander
 Me: https://www.hagander.net/ 
 Work: https://www.redpill-linpro.com/ 

Re: [HACKERS] [pgsql-www] Schedule for migration to pglister

[Tom Lane]

Magnus Hagander  writes:
> On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 4:40 PM, Tom Lane  wrote:
>> I suggest doing that the other way 'round.  Otherwise, the email
>> about the change will inevitably go into a lot of peoples' bit
>> buckets if they haven't adjusted their mail filters yet.

> The argument for doing it after the migration is that the complaints that
> we have received so far have all been from people where email ends up in
> the *inbox* after the migration, not the bitbucket. That's the default
> action in most peoples MUAs when their rules no longer match...

Hm, around here it's no match -> spam bucket.  But in any case, why
would you not want to send it before so that it would end up where
they're accustomed to seeing the list's traffic?

regards, tom lane


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Re: [HACKERS] [pgsql-www] Schedule for migration to pglister

[Stephen Frost]

Tom,

* Tom Lane (t...@sss.pgh.pa.us) wrote:
> Stephen Frost  writes:
> > Each list will receive an email with a link to the wiki about the
> > migration after the list has been migrated.
> 
> I suggest doing that the other way 'round.  Otherwise, the email
> about the change will inevitably go into a lot of peoples' bit
> buckets if they haven't adjusted their mail filters yet.

My thought had been to do before-and-after, but I got complaints from
others that we'd then be spamming a lot of people with email.

We definitely need one after the migration because the new mail *won't*
end up caught in people's filters, and for those who intentionally
filter the list traffic into the garbage because they couldn't figure
out how to unsubscribe, this is going to be most annoying (this is what
we saw with the pgadmin lists and it was quite painful).

Thanks!

Stephen


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Re: [HACKERS] [pgsql-www] Schedule for migration to pglister

[Magnus Hagander]

On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 4:40 PM, Tom Lane  wrote:

> Stephen Frost  writes:
> > Each list will receive an email with a link to the wiki about the
> > migration after the list has been migrated.
>
> I suggest doing that the other way 'round.  Otherwise, the email
> about the change will inevitably go into a lot of peoples' bit
> buckets if they haven't adjusted their mail filters yet.
>

The argument for doing it after the migration is that the complaints that
we have received so far have all been from people where email ends up in
the *inbox* after the migration, not the bitbucket. That's the default
action in most peoples MUAs when their rules no longer match...

-- 
 Magnus Hagander
 Me: https://www.hagander.net/ 
 Work: https://www.redpill-linpro.com/ 

Re: [HACKERS] [pgsql-www] Schedule for migration to pglister

[Tom Lane]

Stephen Frost  writes:
> Each list will receive an email with a link to the wiki about the
> migration after the list has been migrated.

I suggest doing that the other way 'round.  Otherwise, the email
about the change will inevitably go into a lot of peoples' bit
buckets if they haven't adjusted their mail filters yet.

regards, tom lane


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