Re: [HACKERS] new food for the contrib/ directory
Hello, there's a new archive available with a bugfix for handling null values. Thanks to Steve Head for reporting this. http://ads.ufp.de/projects/Pg/ Regards -- Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] new food for the contrib/ directory
Andreas Scherbaum wrote: Tom Lane wrote: Andreas Scherbaum [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On the other hand, i copied some parts from contrib/noupdate (there'e no licence in the readme) and now i think, this is contributed under BSD licence. I'm sure or i'm wrong? I think, i have to change the licence. Who is the author of the noupdate module and can anybody tell me, whats in this case the right (or left) license? Since it was contributed to become part of the Postgres distribution, we assume the author's intent was to license it under the Postgres distribution license --- ie, BSD. Ok, i have changed the license part in the readme to PostgreSQL (BSD) license and published a new archive. http://ads.ufp.de/projects/Pg/table_log.tar.gz OK, now that the license issue is cleared up, I need someone to comment on its appropriateness for /contrib. -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup.| Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] new food for the contrib/ directory
On Thu, 18 Apr 2002, Alexandre Dulaunoy wrote: Yes, I have read the faq. The 1.2 is not responding why the modified Berkeley-style BSD license was choosen. There is only a respond :because is like that... You would have to ask the Regents of the University of California at Berkeley, not us. You would also have to ask them for permission to change the licensing for the parts of Posgres that they contributed; since they own the copyright, nobody else, not even the Postgresql project, can change the licensing. It might be good to make this a bit more clear in the FAQ. As well, you might wish to add some information in light of the following: As a NetBSD developer, I'd like to point out that the experience of the NetBSD project has been that having multiple licenses in a system is very expensive and makes releases a nightmare, if you're really going to do it right. Just finding all of the licenses in the system is an arduous and time-consuming job. People using Posgres in many commerical situations will save real dollars if everything is under one license. Note also that one of the big problems we experienced was with clause three of BSD-style licenses (the attribution clause). If you change the name in clause three, you have a different license, and you may have problems. That was the biggest factor contributing to massive license proliferation in the NetBSD tree. Personally, I think clause three is best left out alltogether, though I doubt it's changable for files still including Berkeley source. cjs -- Curt Sampson [EMAIL PROTECTED] +81 90 7737 2974 http://www.netbsd.org Don't you know, in this new Dark Age, we're all light. --XTC ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] new food for the contrib/ directory
Tom Lane wrote: Andreas Scherbaum [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On the other hand, i copied some parts from contrib/noupdate (there'e no licence in the readme) and now i think, this is contributed under BSD licence. I'm sure or i'm wrong? I think, i have to change the licence. Who is the author of the noupdate module and can anybody tell me, whats in this case the right (or left) license? Since it was contributed to become part of the Postgres distribution, we assume the author's intent was to license it under the Postgres distribution license --- ie, BSD. Ok, i have changed the license part in the readme to PostgreSQL (BSD) license and published a new archive. http://ads.ufp.de/projects/Pg/table_log.tar.gz Hope, this cleans some open questions. Best regards -- Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] new food for the contrib/ directory
Curt Sampson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Note also that one of the big problems we experienced was with clause three of BSD-style licenses (the attribution clause). Fortunately, Berkeley had already stopped using the advertising clause when they tossed Postgres over the fence. Our version does not have it (see ~/COPYRIGHT). regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] new food for the contrib/ directory
Hi Bruce, Haven't looked at the code, but there's no license with it. Andreas, are you cool with having the same License as PostgreSQL for it (BSD license)? :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Bruce Momjian wrote: Can someone comment on this? I can't decide. --- Andreas Scherbaum wrote: Hello, i have written a module for logging changes on a table (without knowing the exact column names). Dont know where to put it, but its ready for use in the contrib directory. Its available at: http://ads.ufp.de/projects/Pg/table_log.tar.gz (3k) Would be nice, if this can be added. Best regards -- Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with your Microsoft product. (Ferenc Mantfeld) -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup.| Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly -- My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there. - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] new food for the contrib/ directory
Justin Clift wrote: Hi Bruce, Haven't looked at the code, but there's no license with it. Andreas, are you cool with having the same License as PostgreSQL for it (BSD license)? :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Bruce Momjian wrote: Can someone comment on this? I can't decide. --- Andreas Scherbaum wrote: Hello, i have written a module for logging changes on a table (without knowing the exact column names). Dont know where to put it, but its ready for use in the contrib directory. Its available at: http://ads.ufp.de/projects/Pg/table_log.tar.gz (3k) Would be nice, if this can be added. Best regards Hello, uhm, good point. I thought i missed something ;-) This software is distributed under the GNU General Public License either version 2, or (at your option) any later version. I have updated the readme and replaced the archive with a new version. Thanks and best regards -- Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] new food for the contrib/ directory
Justin Clift wrote: Hi Bruce, Did we reach an opinion as to whether we'll include GPL'd code? My vote is to not include this code, as it just muddies the water with PostgreSQL being BSD based. :-) Hmm, there's enough GPL'ed stuff in contrib/ ;-) -- Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] new food for the contrib/ directory
Andreas Scherbaum [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Justin Clift wrote: Did we reach an opinion as to whether we'll include GPL'd code? My vote is to not include this code, as it just muddies the water with PostgreSQL being BSD based. Hmm, there's enough GPL'ed stuff in contrib/ ;-) Indeed, the core committee recently agreed that we should try to ensure that the whole distribution is under the same BSD license. I have a TODO item to contact the authors of the existing GPL'd contrib modules, and if possible get them to agree to relicense. If not, those modules will be removed from contrib. There are other possible homes for contrib modules whose authors strongly prefer GPL. For example, Red Hat's add-ons for Postgres will be GPL (per corporate policy), and I expect that they'd be willing to host contrib modules. But the core distribution will be straight BSD to avoid license confusion. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] new food for the contrib/ directory
first comment : * a special directory with ./contrib/gpl ? second comment : * I don't really understand your position regarding the GNU General Public License. The GPL is offering multiple advantages for a big project and software like PostgreSQL. For example : * Contribution back to the main tree more easy if redistribution. (like HP and Samba team are doing, copyright holder remains samba team) * More easy to get a RF (Royalty Free) license from a patent owner. (this is guarantee for him that it will not go back to proprietary software where it's not a RF license) (like the UB-Trees) * A possible bigger audience. Dual licensing is also an alternative but could be a real mess. It's just idea. alx -- Alexandre Dulaunoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.conostix.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] new food for the contrib/ directory
Alexandre Dulaunoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: first comment : * a special directory with ./contrib/gpl ? Doesn't really change anything. second comment : * I don't really understand your position regarding the GNU General Public License. The GPL is offering multiple advantages for a big project and software like PostgreSQL. For example : Not open for discussion. See the FAQ. -Doug -- Doug McNaught Wireboard Industries http://www.wireboard.com/ Custom software development, systems and network consulting. Java PostgreSQL Enhydra Python Zope Perl Apache Linux BSD... ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] new food for the contrib/ directory
Justin Clift wrote: Hi Bruce, Did we reach an opinion as to whether we'll include GPL'd code? My vote is to not include this code, as it just muddies the water with PostgreSQL being BSD based. Yes, our current policy is to add GPL to /contrib only when we have little choice and the module is important. I am not sure if the module is even appropriate for /contrib. -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup.| Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] new food for the contrib/ directory
Alexandre Dulaunoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: * I don't really understand your position regarding the GNU General Public License. The GPL is offering multiple advantages for a big project and software like PostgreSQL. Every month or two a newbie pops up and asks us why Postgres isn't GPL. The short answer is that we like the BSD license and that's how Berkeley released it originally. We have no interest in changing it even if we could (which we can't). If you want a longer answer, consult the mailing list archives; there have been numerous extended threads on this topic. Most of us are pretty tired of it by now :-( The question of whether to accept GPL'd contrib modules is less clear-cut (obviously, since it's been done in the past). But we've concluded that it just muddies the water to have GPL'd code in the distribution. Contrib authors who really prefer GPL have other avenues to distribute their code. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] new food for the contrib/ directory
On 18 Apr 2002, Doug McNaught wrote: Alexandre Dulaunoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: first comment : * a special directory with ./contrib/gpl ? Doesn't really change anything. second comment : * I don't really understand your position regarding the GNU General Public License. The GPL is offering multiple advantages for a big project and software like PostgreSQL. For example : Not open for discussion. See the FAQ. I love that type of respond ;-) Yes, I have read the faq. The 1.2 is not responding why the modified Berkeley-style BSD license was choosen. There is only a respond :because is like that... I have also read that : http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-general/2000-07/msg00210.php My question is more regarding the recent issue of RF license for some specific patents. As described in my previous message, copyleft type license has some advantages around the RF licensing issue. Could you extend the FAQ (1.2) with more arguments ? Thanks a lot for the excellent software. alx -Doug -- Alexandre Dulaunoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.conostix.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] new food for the contrib/ directory
Alexandre Dulaunoy wrote: Not open for discussion. See the FAQ. I love that type of respond ;-) Yes, I have read the faq. The 1.2 is not responding why the modified Berkeley-style BSD license was choosen. There is only a respond :because is like that... I have also read that : http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-general/2000-07/msg00210.php My question is more regarding the recent issue of RF license for some specific patents. As described in my previous message, copyleft type license has some advantages around the RF licensing issue. Yes, GPL has advantages, but it does prevent non-source distributions. You can say that is not a problem, but not everyone agrees. Could you extend the FAQ (1.2) with more arguments ? No. The discussion thread was painful enough. :-) -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup.| Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] new food for the contrib/ directory
first comment : * a special directory with ./contrib/gpl ? second comment : * I don't really understand your position regarding the GNU General Public License. The GPL is offering multiple advantages for a big project and software like PostgreSQL. For example : * Contribution back to the main tree more easy if redistribution. (like HP and Samba team are doing, copyright holder remains samba team) * More easy to get a RF (Royalty Free) license from a patent owner. (this is guarantee for him that it will not go back to proprietary software where it's not a RF license) (like the UB-Trees) * A possible bigger audience. Dual licensing is also an alternative but could be a real mess. It's just idea. alx On Thu, 18 Apr 2002, Justin Clift wrote: Hi Bruce, Did we reach an opinion as to whether we'll include GPL'd code? My vote is to not include this code, as it just muddies the water with PostgreSQL being BSD based. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Andreas Scherbaum wrote: Justin Clift wrote: Hi Bruce, Haven't looked at the code, but there's no license with it. Andreas, are you cool with having the same License as PostgreSQL for it (BSD license)? :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Bruce Momjian wrote: Can someone comment on this? I can't decide. --- Andreas Scherbaum wrote: Hello, i have written a module for logging changes on a table (without knowing the exact column names). Dont know where to put it, but its ready for use in the contrib directory. Its available at: http://ads.ufp.de/projects/Pg/table_log.tar.gz (3k) Would be nice, if this can be added. Best regards Hello, uhm, good point. I thought i missed something ;-) This software is distributed under the GNU General Public License either version 2, or (at your option) any later version. I have updated the readme and replaced the archive with a new version. Thanks and best regards -- Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org -- Alexandre Dulaunoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.conostix.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] new food for the contrib/ directory
Tom Lane wrote: Andreas Scherbaum [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Justin Clift wrote: Did we reach an opinion as to whether we'll include GPL'd code? My vote is to not include this code, as it just muddies the water with PostgreSQL being BSD based. Hmm, there's enough GPL'ed stuff in contrib/ ;-) Indeed, the core committee recently agreed that we should try to ensure that the whole distribution is under the same BSD license. I have a TODO item to contact the authors of the existing GPL'd contrib modules, and if possible get them to agree to relicense. If not, those modules will be removed from contrib. There are other possible homes for contrib modules whose authors strongly prefer GPL. For example, Red Hat's add-ons for Postgres will be GPL (per corporate policy), and I expect that they'd be willing to host contrib modules. But the core distribution will be straight BSD to avoid license confusion. I have to excuse myself, because i think, i did a mistake. Yes, my first intention was to make it GPL, but i do not stick to it. On the other hand, i copied some parts from contrib/noupdate (there'e no licence in the readme) and now i think, this is contributed under BSD licence. I'm sure or i'm wrong? I think, i have to change the licence. Who is the author of the noupdate module and can anybody tell me, whats in this case the right (or left) license? Best regards -- Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] new food for the contrib/ directory
... Thanks a lot for the excellent software. My personal view is that one might consider using the same BSD license as PostgreSQL itself as a gesture of appreciation for the software you are using. Contribute or not, it is your choice. But if you are benefiting from the software (and lots of folks are) then why not take the big risk of contributing back with a similar license? Regards. - Thomas ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] new food for the contrib/ directory
Can someone comment on this? I can't decide. --- Andreas Scherbaum wrote: Hello, i have written a module for logging changes on a table (without knowing the exact column names). Dont know where to put it, but its ready for use in the contrib directory. Its available at: http://ads.ufp.de/projects/Pg/table_log.tar.gz (3k) Would be nice, if this can be added. Best regards -- Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with your Microsoft product. (Ferenc Mantfeld) -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup.| Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
