[Pgui-devel] Video and animation inside PicoGUI

2003-01-09 Thread Philippe Ney
Hi Micah,

We intend to make video/animation with PicoGUI, did you already thought
about this?

What would be the best way to achieve this?
Maybe using something like a canvas and the pgFromMemory function with
frequent updates?

Maybe you have some tips or suggestions?

TIA,
-philippe


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Re: [Pgui-devel] Video and animation inside PicoGUI

2003-01-09 Thread Philippe Ney
> Hi Micah,
> 
> We intend to make video/animation with PicoGUI, did you already thought
> about this?
> 
> What would be the best way to achieve this?
> Maybe using something like a canvas and the pgFromMemory function with
> frequent updates?
> 
> Maybe you have some tips or suggestions?

mmmh... I think I would better have a look with shared memory.
I asked my question a little to quickly :)
-philippe


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Re: [Pgui-devel] Video and animation inside PicoGUI

2003-01-09 Thread Lalo Martins
On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 12:36:04PM +0100, Philippe Ney wrote:
> Hi Micah,
> 
> We intend to make video/animation with PicoGUI, did you already thought
> about this?
> 
> What would be the best way to achieve this?
> Maybe using something like a canvas and the pgFromMemory function with
> frequent updates?
> 
> Maybe you have some tips or suggestions?

Currently the "standard" answer is to use SDL with the PicoGUI target.
There is a plan to rip off the PicoGUI support in SDL into a separate
library, which Micah calls "media_c" (soname would probably be something
like libpgmedia); this library could be used by non-SDL apps to display
animation and other graphically complex stuff, such as the vnc viewer of my
dreams.  But this library is currently vapourware, if you want to start
implementing it I might be able to lend a hand.

(Then the SDL PicoGUI target would link to media_c, or at least that is the
plan.)

Otherwise the shared memory structures and calls seem to be a bit complex to
use directly, if you really need to do that for reasons of limited time, my
suggestion is to use the SDL port as a repository of example code.

[]s,
   |alo
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Re: [Pgui-devel] Video and animation inside PicoGUI

2003-01-09 Thread Micah Dowty
On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 01:05:06PM -0200, Lalo Martins wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 12:36:04PM +0100, Philippe Ney wrote:
> > Hi Micah,
> > 
> > We intend to make video/animation with PicoGUI, did you already thought
> > about this?
> > 
> > What would be the best way to achieve this?
> > Maybe using something like a canvas and the pgFromMemory function with
> > frequent updates?
> > 
> > Maybe you have some tips or suggestions?
> 
> Currently the "standard" answer is to use SDL with the PicoGUI target.
> There is a plan to rip off the PicoGUI support in SDL into a separate
> library, which Micah calls "media_c" (soname would probably be something
> like libpgmedia); this library could be used by non-SDL apps to display
> animation and other graphically complex stuff, such as the vnc viewer of my
> dreams.  But this library is currently vapourware, if you want to start
> implementing it I might be able to lend a hand.
> 
> (Then the SDL PicoGUI target would link to media_c, or at least that is the
> plan.)
> 
> Otherwise the shared memory structures and calls seem to be a bit complex to
> use directly, if you really need to do that for reasons of limited time, my
> suggestion is to use the SDL port as a repository of example code.

The shared memory calls themselves are pretty easy (easier than MIT-SHM at least :)
You call pgMakeSHMBitmap on an existing picogui bitmap handle, and it returns
a structure with info you need to attach to the SHM segment, and a verbose description
of the server's video format. What makes it hard of course is understanding all those
server-side formats.

If you're doing a media player, you probably also want YUV to RGB conversion. If the 
player you're writing/porting can't already do that, SDL can.

> 
> []s,
>|alo
>+
> --
> Those who trade freedom for security
>lose both and deserve neither.
> --
> http://www.laranja.org/mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> 
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> GNU: never give up freedom http://www.gnu.org/
> 
> 
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Re: [Pgui-devel] Video and animation inside PicoGUI

2003-01-09 Thread Lalo Martins
On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 08:43:45AM -0700, Micah Dowty wrote:
> 
> The shared memory calls themselves are pretty easy (easier than MIT-SHM at least :)
> You call pgMakeSHMBitmap on an existing picogui bitmap handle, and it returns
> a structure with info you need to attach to the SHM segment, and a verbose 
>description
> of the server's video format. What makes it hard of course is understanding all those
> server-side formats.

Then I could have already written the vnc viewer?  Why didn't you tell me
this before?

/me slaps scanline around with a large SHM segment

[]s,
   |alo
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Re: [Pgui-devel] Video and animation inside PicoGUI

2003-01-09 Thread Micah Dowty
On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 02:25:44PM -0200, Lalo Martins wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 08:43:45AM -0700, Micah Dowty wrote:
> > 
> > The shared memory calls themselves are pretty easy (easier than MIT-SHM at least :)
> > You call pgMakeSHMBitmap on an existing picogui bitmap handle, and it returns
> > a structure with info you need to attach to the SHM segment, and a verbose 
>description
> > of the server's video format. What makes it hard of course is understanding all 
>those
> > server-side formats.
> 
> Then I could have already written the vnc viewer?  Why didn't you tell me
> this before?
> 
> /me slaps scanline around with a large SHM segment

:)

Nah, I still think media_c is necessary. Pgserver already supports a lot of weird 
formats
(ncurses, VGA sync signals embedded in the framebuffer, ASCII, planar modes...) that it
would be a pain to try to support in an app, plus putting in an abstraction layer for 
mode
conversion makes supporting future modes easy. I don't expect media_c to be 
complicated, just:

 - A very thin OS abstraction layer for the SHM segment
 - Mode conversion code a la SDL so your app can pick a mode and have media_c convert 
if desired
 - Optional convenience functions for setting up the app's main window

Of course, if you don't mind having to deal with the framebuffer in pgserver's native 
format,
feel free to start the VNC client :)

> 
> []s,
>|alo
>+
> --
> Those who trade freedom for security
>lose both and deserve neither.
> --
> http://www.laranja.org/mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  pgp key: http://www.laranja.org/pessoal/pgp
> 
> Eu jogo RPG! (I play RPG) http://www.eujogorpg.com.br/
> GNU: never give up freedom http://www.gnu.org/
> 
> 
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Re: [Pgui-devel] Video and animation inside PicoGUI

2003-01-09 Thread Lalo Martins
On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 09:55:14AM -0700, Micah Dowty wrote:
> 
> Nah, I still think media_c is necessary. Pgserver already supports a lot of weird 
>formats
> (ncurses, VGA sync signals embedded in the framebuffer, ASCII, planar modes...) that 
>it
> would be a pain to try to support in an app, plus putting in an abstraction layer 
>for mode
> conversion makes supporting future modes easy. I don't expect media_c to be 
>complicated, just:
> 
>  - A very thin OS abstraction layer for the SHM segment
>  - Mode conversion code a la SDL so your app can pick a mode and have media_c 
>convert if desired
>  - Optional convenience functions for setting up the app's main window
> 
> Of course, if you don't mind having to deal with the framebuffer in pgserver's 
>native format,
> feel free to start the VNC client :)

Question is: would that be *pgserver's* native format, or the *underlying
system's* (eg X, fbdev, sdl, etc) format?

Hmm, btw (unrelated) it would be interesting to have a system for pgserver
to inform the app that something can't be seen in the current display driver
(eg, animation in ncurses).

[]s,
   |alo
   +
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[Pgui-devel] "wait, uploading data"

2003-01-09 Thread Lalo Martins
On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 01:20:37PM -0700, Micah Dowty wrote:
> for example, if you're loading a big image in imgview over a 
> slow network, pgserver could after some timeout display a progress bar at the bottom 
>of the app's
> root widget.

what about progressive display?

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Re: [Pgui-devel] "wait, uploading data"

2003-01-09 Thread Micah Dowty
On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 06:35:00PM -0200, Lalo Martins wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 01:20:37PM -0700, Micah Dowty wrote:
> > for example, if you're loading a big image in imgview over a 
> > slow network, pgserver could after some timeout display a progress bar at the 
>bottom of the app's
> > root widget.
> 
> what about progressive display?

That would definitely be good.. would require some reworking of pgserver's
image loaders though. Some other things they could be reworked to support:

  - Non-raster images, like SVG or postscript
  - motion video (Not necessarily animated gif... 
useful formats like mpeg or divx)

Of course, supporting video in pgserver would be a big can of worms that
I'd rather not open yet :)

> 
> []s,
>|alo
>+
> --
> Those who trade freedom for security
>lose both and deserve neither.
> --
> http://www.laranja.org/mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> 
> Eu jogo RPG! (I play RPG) http://www.eujogorpg.com.br/
> GNU: never give up freedom http://www.gnu.org/
> 
> 
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Re: [Pgui-devel] Video and animation inside PicoGUI

2003-01-09 Thread Micah Dowty
On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 05:58:20PM -0200, Lalo Martins wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 09:55:14AM -0700, Micah Dowty wrote:
> > 
> > Nah, I still think media_c is necessary. Pgserver already supports a lot of weird 
>formats
> > (ncurses, VGA sync signals embedded in the framebuffer, ASCII, planar modes...) 
>that it
> > would be a pain to try to support in an app, plus putting in an abstraction layer 
>for mode
> > conversion makes supporting future modes easy. I don't expect media_c to be 
>complicated, just:
> > 
> >  - A very thin OS abstraction layer for the SHM segment
> >  - Mode conversion code a la SDL so your app can pick a mode and have media_c 
>convert if desired
> >  - Optional convenience functions for setting up the app's main window
> > 
> > Of course, if you don't mind having to deal with the framebuffer in pgserver's 
>native format,
> > feel free to start the VNC client :)
> 
> Question is: would that be *pgserver's* native format, or the *underlying
> system's* (eg X, fbdev, sdl, etc) format?

Both :)

pgserver doesn't really have a native format of it's own, it's defined by the video 
driver.
On fbdev and sdl that's a pretty normal linear framebuffer, on X it's a SHM pixmap in 
the
X server's address space and pgserver passes along whateve format info it's gathered 
from X.

> 
> Hmm, btw (unrelated) it would be interesting to have a system for pgserver
> to inform the app that something can't be seen in the current display driver
> (eg, animation in ncurses).

Hmm, once the messagedialog is server-side, we could set up a system for having 
pgserver notify
users of things like that... I would also like a way for pgserver to notify the user 
that an app
is waiting on a network transfer... for example, if you're loading a big image in 
imgview over a 
slow network, pgserver could after some timeout display a progress bar at the bottom 
of the app's
root widget.

> 
> []s,
>|alo
>+
> --
> Those who trade freedom for security
>lose both and deserve neither.
> --
> http://www.laranja.org/mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  pgp key: http://www.laranja.org/pessoal/pgp
> 
> Eu jogo RPG! (I play RPG) http://www.eujogorpg.com.br/
> GNU: never give up freedom http://www.gnu.org/
> 
> 
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