date:20131030

Could someone else try rebooting all our jenkins instances including all slaves?
- host name resolving is horribly slow on all slaves, the only thing that helps 
is rebooting
- windows slaves are all down due to CI issue (being addressed by the CI 
maintainers)
- I don't have access to the CI admin site, due to a Error 500




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Re: [Pharo-dev] 11635: Race condition in SequenceableCollectionshuffle

Name: 
SLICE-Issue-11635-Race-condition-in-SequenceableCollectionshuffle-MaxLeske.2
Author: MaxLeske
Time: 30 October 2013, 1:41:57.198092 pm
UUID: c3d51645-7e81-4997-b74c-545bf7ef60b0
Ancestors: 
Dependencies: Collections-Abstract-MaxLeske.231, 
Collections-Unordered-MaxLeske.175

made changes as detailed on the mailing list

* shuffle
^ self shuffleBy: Random new
* shuffled
^ self copy shuffle
* removed #shuffledBy:
* Matrix uses #shuffleBy:  (on an explicit copy) instead of #shuffledBy:


On 01.10.2013, at 17:06, Henrik Johansen henrik.s.johan...@veloxit.no wrote:

 
 On Sep 28, 2013, at 10:59 , Max Leske maxle...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Thanks for the feedback guys.
 
 Based on the discussion I propose a different set of changes:
 
 1.
 shuffle
  ^ self shuffleBy: Random new
 
 2.
 shuffled
  ^ self copy shuffle
 
 3. remove #shuffledBy: (if you're specific enough to use a custom Random 
 instance you can also create a copy of the collection yourself if you want 
 to)
 
 
 I leave the matter of renaming the methods for further discussion. 
 Personally I'm for more intention revealing selectors; I quite like #shuffle 
 and #shuffleInPlace. If we can agree on a different naming scheme we should 
 then apply it to other methods aswell of course (e.g. #sort, #sortInPlace).
 
 Also open for discussion is the use of CollectionrandomForPicking and 
 CollectionmutexForPicking in other methods (such as #atRandom). I think it 
 shouldn't be too big a problem to make those methods use individual Random 
 instances and to remove the two class variables from Collection.
 
 Cheers,
 Max
 
 +1 from me on all three suggestions, as you might guess. :)
 
 As for #atRandom using Random new, the performance hit and seed quality would 
 be much greater concerns, as the Random instance would only be used once per 
 invocation.
 At this point in time there's no good alternatives to the current approach, 
 but renaming the mutex/shared variable to reflect its singular use would be 
 one possible improvement, I guess.
 
 Cheers,
 Henry

[Pharo-dev] Changing non-copying selectors to #...InPlace

To continue the discussion on this topic (stemming from issue 11635) I’m 
starting a new thread. Please share your thoughts.

Form the other thread:

 Personally I'm for more intention revealing selectors; I quite like #shuffled 
 and #shuffleInPlace. If we can agree on a different naming scheme we should 
 then apply it to other methods aswell of course (e.g. #sorted, #sortInPlace).

My proposition is to keep the selectors named #…d (#shuffled, #sorted, etc.), 
which operate on a copy, and rename the others (#shuffle, #sort, etc…) to 
#…InPlace (#shuffleInPlace, #sortInPlace, etc.). The rational behind this is 
that (to my mind) the current scheme is not intention revealing (e.g. #shuffle 
vs. #shuffled). Which is especially problematic for newcomers.

Max

[Pharo-dev] Preventing wrong use of Collection#randomForPicking

To continue the discussion on this topic (stemming from issue 11635) I’m 
starting a new thread. Please share your thoughts.

From the other thread:

 Also open for discussion is the use of CollectionrandomForPicking and 
 CollectionmutexForPicking in other methods (such as #atRandom). I think it 
 shouldn't be too big a problem to make those methods use individual Random 
 instances and to remove the two class variables from Collection.

#randomForPicking answers a Random stored in a class variable. Access to this 
variable is protected by a Mutext stored in a class variable 
(#mutexForPicking). The problem, as revealed by issue 11635, is of course that 
you have to know that you may only use that Random object if you also protect 
access to it with the class side Mutex. Otherwise race conditions can occur. 
#atRandom is one prominent user of #randomForPicking and #mutexForPicking.

Henrik’s thoughts:

 As for #atRandom using Random new, the performance hit and seed quality would 
 be much greater concerns, as the Random instance would only be used once per 
 invocation.
 At this point in time there's no good alternatives to the current approach, 
 but renaming the mutex/shared variable to reflect its singular use would be 
 one possible improvement, I guess.

So one possibility would be rename these methods, for example to #atRandomMutex 
and #atRandomRandom (no, I haven’t given much thought to the names :) ).

Max

Re: [Pharo-dev] CI

On 30 October 2013 13:49, Camillo Bruni camillobr...@gmail.com wrote:

 Could someone else try rebooting all our jenkins instances including all
 slaves?
 - host name resolving is horribly slow on all slaves, the only thing that
 helps is rebooting
 - windows slaves are all down due to CI issue (being addressed by the CI
 maintainers)
 - I don't have access to the CI admin site, due to a Error 500


 i tried (via https://ci.inria.fr/dashboard) but i have same problem here
- Error 500.


-- 
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko.

[Pharo-dev] Using Gutenberg

2013-10-30 Thread Torsten Bergmann

Gutenberg - how to use it?  How to install, how is the process...
Any links?

thx
T.

Re: [Pharo-dev] CI

2013-10-30 Thread Clément Bera

I tried. Got *Error #500* error :Empty or too short HTTP message: ''
I think this is due to yesterday maintenance.
It will be fixed soon.

For further informations, mails from the CI guys (both sent yesterday):

mail1

Dear users,

A maintenance has to be performed on the network hardware of the CloudStack
service (software update of the switches). As a consequence, the slaves
will not be available for a few minutes between 4.25pm and 4.45pm.
Meanwhile, some Jenkins jobs might fail because of unreachable slaves.

Please accept our apologies for the inconvenience,

mail2

Dear users,

Unfortunately this maintenance was not without impact. The CloudStack
hypervisors have briefly lost their iSCSI link. As a consequence, the
primary storage pools are now in an inconsistent state.

From your point of view, some slaves might be unreachable and the
CloudStack operations may fail.

The IT team is now working on the issue. If you are interested in the
details, you can have a look at
https://wiki.inria.fr/ciportal/Event_20131030_cs

Sorry for this new unavailability, CI is somehow facing an unlucky
period.


2013/10/30 Camillo Bruni camillobr...@gmail.com

 Could someone else try rebooting all our jenkins instances including all
 slaves?
 - host name resolving is horribly slow on all slaves, the only thing that
 helps is rebooting
 - windows slaves are all down due to CI issue (being addressed by the CI
 maintainers)
 - I don't have access to the CI admin site, due to a Error 500

Re: [Pharo-dev] CI

thanks for the details

On 2013-10-30, at 14:39, Clément Bera bera.clem...@gmail.com wrote:

 I tried. Got Error #500 error :Empty or too short HTTP message: ''
 I think this is due to yesterday maintenance. 
 It will be fixed soon.
 
 For further informations, mails from the CI guys (both sent yesterday):
 
 mail1
 
 Dear users,
 
 A maintenance has to be performed on the network hardware of the CloudStack 
 service (software update of the switches). As a consequence, the slaves will 
 not be available for a few minutes between 4.25pm and 4.45pm. Meanwhile, some 
 Jenkins jobs might fail because of unreachable slaves.
 
 Please accept our apologies for the inconvenience,
 
 mail2
 
 Dear users,
 
 Unfortunately this maintenance was not without impact. The CloudStack
 hypervisors have briefly lost their iSCSI link. As a consequence, the
 primary storage pools are now in an inconsistent state.
 
 From your point of view, some slaves might be unreachable and the
 CloudStack operations may fail.
 
 The IT team is now working on the issue. If you are interested in the
 details, you can have a look at
 https://wiki.inria.fr/ciportal/Event_20131030_cs
 
 Sorry for this new unavailability, CI is somehow facing an unlucky
 period.
 
 
 2013/10/30 Camillo Bruni camillobr...@gmail.com
 Could someone else try rebooting all our jenkins instances including all 
 slaves?
 - host name resolving is horribly slow on all slaves, the only thing that 
 helps is rebooting
 - windows slaves are all down due to CI issue (being addressed by the CI 
 maintainers)
 - I don't have access to the CI admin site, due to a Error 500
 
 
 



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Re: [Pharo-dev] Using Gutenberg

You are talking about Pier-Gutenberg? A thing for books?

On 30 Oct 2013, at 14:37, Torsten Bergmann asta...@gmx.de wrote:

 Gutenberg - how to use it?  How to install, how is the process...
 Any links?
 
 thx
 T.

[Pharo-dev] Image Stability

Failing Tests
-
Seems like our test splitup did not work properly:

https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-3.0/

The tests starting with A-L did not run since a while!

From what I get quite a bunch of tests are failing. 


Pending Processes + Default Username

There is a strange amount of processes hanging around in the image.
Plus there was a report that a default user name was set in the image (Not sure 
if that still persists, since I directly set mine with startup preferences).
Was a new image version ben uploaded manually?


Unstable Image + VM
---
Additionally since a while the image became much more unstable after running 
the tests
twice (I know not a common case, but it should NEVER provoke a VM crash), see 
here:

https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/view/3.0-Analysis/job/Pharo-3.0-Test-Twice/buildTimeTrend

From what I get, ReleaseTesttestObsoleteBehaviors provokes a VM crash.


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Re: [Pharo-dev] Using Gutenberg

2013-10-30 Thread Torsten Bergmann

Yes, OK - meanwhile I found out. For the records:

Gutemberg is an addon for Pier CMS to write a book in Pier syntax.
It can convert into PDF. Details here:

[1] https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/PharoForTheEnterprise/
[2] http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~DamienCassou/Pier-Gutemberg
[3] https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/PharoForTheEnterprise-english


 Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. Oktober 2013 um 15:04 Uhr
 Von: Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymc...@me.com
 An: Pharo Development List pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org
 Betreff: Re: [Pharo-dev] Using Gutenberg

 You are talking about Pier-Gutenberg? A thing for books?
 
 On 30 Oct 2013, at 14:37, Torsten Bergmann asta...@gmx.de wrote:
 
  Gutenberg - how to use it?  How to install, how is the process...
  Any links?
  
  thx
  T.

Re: [Pharo-dev] Image Stability

2013-10-30 Thread Marcus Denker


On 30 Oct 2013, at 15:09, Camillo Bruni camillobr...@gmail.com wrote:

 Failing Tests
 -
 Seems like our test splitup did not work properly:
 
 https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-3.0/
 
 The tests starting with A-L did not run since a while!
 

But I always checked and even waited for them to finish.. to me it looked that 
they where run each time
I did an update.

I check the tests after every update. A-L have one failing tests, related to 
Job (which started to fail recently), and that only on Linux.
Why jenkis shows no test runs I do not know.

 From what I get quite a bunch of tests are failing. 
 
 
 Pending Processes + Default Username
 
 There is a strange amount of processes hanging around in the image.
 Plus there was a report that a default user name was set in the image (Not 
 sure if that still persists, since I directly set mine with startup 
 preferences).
 Was a new image version ben uploaded manually?
 

I did a manual one  recently (last week?) but I did not set any user name.
(I wanted to check if the processes are in the image that we download, they are 
not).

 
 Unstable Image + VM
 ---
 Additionally since a while the image became much more unstable after running 
 the tests
 twice (I know not a common case, but it should NEVER provoke a VM crash), see 
 here:
 
 https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/view/3.0-Analysis/job/Pharo-3.0-Test-Twice/buildTimeTrend
 
 From what I get, ReleaseTesttestObsoleteBehaviors provokes a VM crash.

It was crashing the Opal Regression tests, too. Last wee I added a #flushCache 
to the #fixObsoleteReferences
and that fixed it for the Opal Tests.

Marcus


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Re: [Pharo-dev] Using Gutenberg

Yes. That are probably all the links I could suggest.

Also I have a question for a community:
Why do we need Pier-Gutenberg? Why can’t we gust use ePub for example?

Uko


On 30 Oct 2013, at 15:36, Torsten Bergmann asta...@gmx.de wrote:

 Yes, OK - meanwhile I found out. For the records:
 
 Gutemberg is an addon for Pier CMS to write a book in Pier syntax.
 It can convert into PDF. Details here:
 
 [1] https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/PharoForTheEnterprise/
 [2] http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~DamienCassou/Pier-Gutemberg
 [3] https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/PharoForTheEnterprise-english
 
 
 Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. Oktober 2013 um 15:04 Uhr
 Von: Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymc...@me.com
 An: Pharo Development List pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org
 Betreff: Re: [Pharo-dev] Using Gutenberg
 
 You are talking about Pier-Gutenberg? A thing for books?
 
 On 30 Oct 2013, at 14:37, Torsten Bergmann asta...@gmx.de wrote:
 
 Gutenberg - how to use it?  How to install, how is the process...
 Any links?
 
 thx
 T.

Re: [Pharo-dev] Image Stability


On 2013-10-30, at 16:04, Marcus Denker marcus.den...@inria.fr wrote:

 
 On 30 Oct 2013, at 15:09, Camillo Bruni camillobr...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Failing Tests
 -
 Seems like our test splitup did not work properly:
 
 https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-3.0/
 
 The tests starting with A-L did not run since a while!
 
 
 But I always checked and even waited for them to finish.. to me it looked 
 that they where run each time
 I did an update.
 
 I check the tests after every update. A-L have one failing tests, related to 
 Job (which started to fail recently), and that only on Linux.
 Why jenkis shows no test runs I do not know.

humm ok, that makes me even more suspicious :P, because there is not even a 
history right now :/.
Well, let's wait until the CI infrastructure is back to normal.

 From what I get quite a bunch of tests are failing. 
 
 
 Pending Processes + Default Username
 
 There is a strange amount of processes hanging around in the image.
 Plus there was a report that a default user name was set in the image (Not 
 sure if that still persists, since I directly set mine with startup 
 preferences).
 Was a new image version ben uploaded manually?
 
 
 I did a manual one  recently (last week?) but I did not set any user name.
 (I wanted to check if the processes are in the image that we download, they 
 are not).

ok, so maybe re-uploading a new image will do the trick?

 Unstable Image + VM
 ---
 Additionally since a while the image became much more unstable after running 
 the tests
 twice (I know not a common case, but it should NEVER provoke a VM crash), 
 see here:
 
 https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/view/3.0-Analysis/job/Pharo-3.0-Test-Twice/buildTimeTrend
 
 From what I get, ReleaseTesttestObsoleteBehaviors provokes a VM crash.
 
 It was crashing the Opal Regression tests, too. Last wee I added a 
 #flushCache to the #fixObsoleteReferences
 and that fixed it for the Opal Tests.

Good. Do you think it would make sense to always call #flushCache if you 
manually trigger the GC?


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Re: [Pharo-dev] Changing non-copying selectors to #...InPlace

2013-10-30 Thread btc





Max Leske wrote:

  To continue the discussion on this topic (stemming from issue 11635) I’m starting a new thread. Please share your thoughts.

Form the other thread:

  
  
Personally I'm for more intention revealing selectors; I quite like #shuffled and #shuffleInPlace. If we can agree on a different naming scheme we should then apply it to other methods aswell of course (e.g. #sorted, #sortInPlace).

  
  
My proposition is to keep the selectors named #…d (#shuffled, #sorted, etc.), which operate on a copy, and rename the others (#shuffle, #sort, etc…) to #…InPlace (#shuffleInPlace, #sortInPlace, etc.). The rational behind this is that (to my mind) the current scheme is not intention revealing (e.g. #shuffle vs. #shuffled). Which is especially problematic for newcomers.

Max

  

+1 My somewhat naive view is that its better programming practice to
operate on a 'copy' to reduce side effects, and so are 'safer' and
generate less surprises, and so their use should be encouraged as the
first option - which comes from these having shorter method names
compared to the 'InPlace' ones.  In the cases that profiling reveals
'copying' to be too great a performance issue, then having 'InPlace' in
the method name is more intention revealing that there are side effects.

cheers -ben

[Pharo-dev] Pharo presentation at Smalltalk 2013



http://www.slideshare.net/pharoproject/2013smalltalksconference-pharo-is-yours

Stef

Re: [Pharo-dev] Changing non-copying selectors to #...InPlace


On 30 Oct 2013, at 14:06, Max Leske maxle...@gmail.com wrote:

 To continue the discussion on this topic (stemming from issue 11635) I’m 
 starting a new thread. Please share your thoughts.
 
 Form the other thread:
 
 Personally I'm for more intention revealing selectors; I quite like 
 #shuffled and #shuffleInPlace. If we can agree on a different naming scheme 
 we should then apply it to other methods aswell of course (e.g. #sorted, 
 #sortInPlace).
 
 My proposition is to keep the selectors named #…d (#shuffled, #sorted, etc.), 
 which operate on a copy, and rename the others (#shuffle, #sort, etc…) to 
 #…InPlace (#shuffleInPlace, #sortInPlace, etc.). The rational behind this is 
 that (to my mind) the current scheme is not intention revealing (e.g. 
 #shuffle vs. #shuffled). Which is especially problematic for newcomers.
 
 Max

Hmm, I am not sure. If you follow this to its logical conclusion than a huge 
amount of methods would need an #InPlace suffix.

I understand that you are trying so fix a possible confusion, but in the case 
of sorting the confusion is inherent: if you are lazy, a beginner, or just 
don’t care about performance because the collections are small, getting a 
sorted copy back is the best solution; but if you care about performance and 
the collections a large, destructive sorting is a necessary option.

Good comments in #sort and #sorted with cross references should help, that is 
why there are comments.

Re: [Pharo-dev] Using Gutenberg

2013-10-30 Thread Damien Cassou

On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Torsten Bergmann asta...@gmx.de wrote:
 Gutemberg is an addon for Pier CMS to write a book in Pier syntax.
 It can convert into PDF. Details here:


soon Gutemberg will be indepent of Pier and only dependent on Pier
syntax and parser (code name 'Pillar') :
http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pier/Pillar

-- 
Damien Cassou
http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without
losing enthusiasm.
Winston Churchill

Re: [Pharo-dev] Using Gutenberg

2013-10-30 Thread Damien Cassou

On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 4:09 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymc...@me.com wrote:
 Why do we need Pier-Gutenberg? Why can’t we gust use ePub for example?

We need a simple text based syntax (like for wiki) to write
documentation fast (e.g., books, class comments, method comments). I
don't know ePub, but it looks a lot like HTML, which is way too
verbose for our needs. Gutemberg looks more like Mardown and Org-mode.
The difference with these 2 is that everything is written in Smalltalk
so it is easy to customize to our needs and embed in Pharo (e.g., to
show beautiful class comments in Nautilus, just like in Amber:
http://forum.world.st/attachment/4684866/0/Screen%20Shot%202013-05-02%20at%2012.11.59%20AM.png)

-- 
Damien Cassou
http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without
losing enthusiasm.
Winston Churchill

Re: [Pharo-dev] Using Gutenberg


On 2013-10-30, at 17:53, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymc...@me.com wrote:

 This makes sense. But I have 2 opinions:
 
 1) If we want something like markdown, why not to use Markdown?

I burnt my fingers already on markdown :), so the major problem is that we do 
not
have a complete parser yet. The current version is something like 90% ready, but
lacks for instance proper support for lists.

Feel free to contribute ;): http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~dh83/petitmarkdown


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Re: [Pharo-dev] Losing instance variable addition

Ok in fact 
Gisela forked the AST-Core package to be able to load a new version with the 
instance variables.
Because there is no way to say that a class definition modification is attached 
to a given package.

Stef

 Apparently the problem is that gisela is adding instance variable to a class 
 that is not in the Flamel package.
 So it was working before but not anymore.
 
 Stef
 
 
 
 Hi guys
 
 we are losing instance variables addition when loading a package.
 Here is the example:
 
  Gofer new
  url: 'http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/gisela/Flamel/main'; 
  version:   'Flamel-GiselaDecuzzi.94';
  load
 
 Normally RBProgramNode should have three new instance variables and not this 
 is not the case.
 Is it a known bug?
 
 Stef

Re: [Pharo-dev] Using Gutenberg

On 30 Oct 2013, at 20:09, Camillo Bruni camillobr...@gmail.com wrote:

I’m not looking for simplicity, I’m looking for a good final product. ePub
shouldn’t be simpler, it’s just made for eBooks.
On the other hand there are editors with WYSIWYG support
like:http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-K2Q-tdVbPRI/UI08v7LhzHI/ABY/vZ5LHjM6nb4/s1600/Screen+Shot+2012-10-28+at+10.07.03+AM.png
And of course there is iBooks Author that I mentioned.

I’m not trying to convince, I’m just trying to understand why development
of a new syntax is better the reusing/extending existing one. Or why we
can’t use epub + sigil for example.

I personally *love* Markdown, it is very easy/productive to write
documentation in.

But,

- there are different, competing and conflicting Markdown variants
- there is no official specification (OK, daring fireball, but he refuses
to work with github, stack exchange)
- there is no formal syntax specification, nowhere
- it is very hard to write a parser, it is too loosely specified

Pier syntax is not new, it is probably older than Markdown.

As far as I am concerned, the most prolific/active authors get to decide,
it is a simple as that.

I am just hoping that their standalone parser and document model is high
quality ;-)

I have nothing against pier syntax. But imagine person coming from outside,
who used markdown to ask questions on stack overflow and write readmes on
github, and here he has to use a different syntax for the same purpose. Just
a thought about bringing new people into a community :)

I agree with you 100%... plus I use markdown for webdoc =
http://files.pharo.org/doc/2.0/

But do you agree on my list of technical problems with Markdown ?

I once tried to write a Markdown parser myself and I gave up and you admit that
you don’t get yours in full order, so...

And even if you did get it more or less right, you would get conflicting
feature requests.

Re: [Pharo-dev] About BitBlt current - BitBlt (Fuel)

Fuel was using BitBlt current and I change that to BitBlt

Stef

On Oct 29, 2013, at 10:55 AM, Max Leske maxle...@gmail.com wrote:

 Stef, what exactly is the influence on Fuel? I looked at the changes of your 
 slice and couldn’t find anything…
 
 Max
 
 
 On 25.10.2013, at 16:26, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote:
 
 Hi 
 
 I just pushed a change cleaning some strange usage.
 BitBlt was sometimes invoked via BitBlt current (which just returned the 
 BitBlt class).
 Apparently in Squeak they removed it too.
 
 Now it touches Fuel so Fuel guys can you merge on your side too?
 
  https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/12009/BitBlt-current-BitBlt
 
 Stef

Re: [Pharo-dev] Using Gutenberg

On 2013-10-30, at 21:15, Sven Van Caekenberghe s...@stfx.eu wrote:

On 30 Oct 2013, at 20:09, Camillo Bruni camillobr...@gmail.com wrote:

I’m not looking for simplicity, I’m looking for a good final product.
ePub shouldn’t be simpler, it’s just made for eBooks.
On the other hand there are editors with WYSIWYG support
like:http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-K2Q-tdVbPRI/UI08v7LhzHI/ABY/vZ5LHjM6nb4/s1600/Screen+Shot+2012-10-28+at+10.07.03+AM.png
And of course there is iBooks Author that I mentioned.

I’m not trying to convince, I’m just trying to understand why development
of a new syntax is better the reusing/extending existing one. Or why we
can’t use epub + sigil for example.

I personally *love* Markdown, it is very easy/productive to write
documentation in.

But,

Pier syntax is not new, it is probably older than Markdown.

As far as I am concerned, the most prolific/active authors get to decide,
it is a simple as that.

I am just hoping that their standalone parser and document model is high
quality ;-)

I have nothing against pier syntax. But imagine person coming from outside,
who used markdown to ask questions on stack overflow and write readmes on
github, and here he has to use a different syntax for the same purpose.
Just a thought about bringing new people into a community :)

I agree with you 100%... plus I use markdown for webdoc =
http://files.pharo.org/doc/2.0/

But do you agree on my list of technical problems with Markdown ?

I once tried to write a Markdown parser myself and I gave up and you admit
that you don’t get yours in full order, so...

And even if you did get it more or less right, you would get conflicting
feature requests.

Sadly yes. We spent quite some time with Damien Pollet to get a better version,
we ended up with a 2-pass approach to first detect blocks an then do the span
analysis. This way you get quite far, but still, it is not very well defined.

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Re: [Pharo-dev] About BitBlt current - BitBlt (Fuel)

2013-10-30 Thread Mariano Martinez Peck

BTWit is time to move the hashBits: to a more general classbut the
question is where?


On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 6:21 PM, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr
 wrote:

 Fuel was using BitBlt current and I change that to BitBlt

 Stef

 On Oct 29, 2013, at 10:55 AM, Max Leske maxle...@gmail.com wrote:

  Stef, what exactly is the influence on Fuel? I looked at the changes of
 your slice and couldn’t find anything…
 
  Max
 
 
  On 25.10.2013, at 16:26, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr
 wrote:
 
  Hi
 
  I just pushed a change cleaning some strange usage.
  BitBlt was sometimes invoked via BitBlt current (which just returned
 the BitBlt class).
  Apparently in Squeak they removed it too.
 
  Now it touches Fuel so Fuel guys can you merge on your side too?
 
   https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/12009/BitBlt-current-BitBlt
 
  Stef
 
 





-- 
Mariano
http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Re: [Pharo-dev] Using Gutenberg

On 30 Oct 2013, at 21:15, Sven Van Caekenberghe s...@stfx.eu wrote:

On 30 Oct 2013, at 20:09, Camillo Bruni camillobr...@gmail.com wrote:

I’m not looking for simplicity, I’m looking for a good final product.
ePub shouldn’t be simpler, it’s just made for eBooks.
On the other hand there are editors with WYSIWYG support
like:http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-K2Q-tdVbPRI/UI08v7LhzHI/ABY/vZ5LHjM6nb4/s1600/Screen+Shot+2012-10-28+at+10.07.03+AM.png
And of course there is iBooks Author that I mentioned.

I’m not trying to convince, I’m just trying to understand why development
of a new syntax is better the reusing/extending existing one. Or why we
can’t use epub + sigil for example.

I personally *love* Markdown, it is very easy/productive to write
documentation in.

But,

Pier syntax is not new, it is probably older than Markdown.

As far as I am concerned, the most prolific/active authors get to decide,
it is a simple as that.

I am just hoping that their standalone parser and document model is high
quality ;-)

I have nothing against pier syntax. But imagine person coming from outside,
who used markdown to ask questions on stack overflow and write readmes on
github, and here he has to use a different syntax for the same purpose.
Just a thought about bringing new people into a community :)

I agree with you 100%... plus I use markdown for webdoc =
http://files.pharo.org/doc/2.0/

But do you agree on my list of technical problems with Markdown ?

We can take spec of daring fireball. And extend it if we need it. Or we can use
github’s markdown. But of course I agree with you

I once tried to write a Markdown parser myself and I gave up and you admit
that you don’t get yours in full order, so...

And even if you did get it more or less right, you would get conflicting
feature requests.

Re: [Pharo-dev] Using Gutenberg

On Oct 30, 2013, at 5:53 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymc...@me.com wrote:

This makes sense. But I have 2 opinions:

1) If we want something like markdown, why not to use Markdown?

because we will have to patch it anyway because it is uncomplete (missing
features for making decent book).

2) When I think about the book I think about something nice. I don’t think
that markdown is good for books. That’s exactly what I encountered. I wanted
to start with this updated version of RBE and wanted to use Gutenberg so it
will be possible to put the book on iBook store and Amazon and read it on
iDevices and Kindles. But When I started to rewrite latex source in Gutenberg
I’ve found that a lot of details are going to be missing, because the is no
support in Gutenberg for them.

Like what?
Be precise because we can extend gutenberg to cover these needs.
Because we took the previous pharo book macros and reduce the set.

That’s my main question: why won’t we write books in ePub (because it the #1
eBooks format) and confer it to .mobi (for kindles) as the formats can be
converted without a problem.

Because with gutenberg+ we can generate
- latex
- markdown
- html
so you can add epub

I do not want to eith write doc or book or html I want one format to produce
them all.

I’d also enjoy to write books in iBooks Author, but it will be hard to
cooperate as not everybody is using Mac.

Cheers.
Uko

On 30 Oct 2013, at 17:36, Damien Cassou damien.cas...@gmail.com wrote:

On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 4:09 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymc...@me.com wrote:
Why do we need Pier-Gutenberg? Why can’t we gust use ePub for example?

We need a simple text based syntax (like for wiki) to write
documentation fast (e.g., books, class comments, method comments). I
don't know ePub, but it looks a lot like HTML, which is way too
verbose for our needs. Gutemberg looks more like Mardown and Org-mode.
The difference with these 2 is that everything is written in Smalltalk
so it is easy to customize to our needs and embed in Pharo (e.g., to
show beautiful class comments in Nautilus, just like in Amber:
http://forum.world.st/attachment/4684866/0/Screen%20Shot%202013-05-02%20at%2012.11.59%20AM.png)

--
Damien Cassou
http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without
losing enthusiasm.
Winston Churchill

Re: [Pharo-dev] Using Gutenberg

markdown misses a lot of features we need to write a book as you
highlight in your next point. So I don't understand your question :-)

If you want to write a comment and display it in Amber I don’t see why people
have to learn a new markup language when there is markdown.

Because you learn markdown first but pier syntax predates it. and because like
that we have one syntax for everything.
Did you notice that the seaside book was fully written with this syntax and it
WORKS!!!

I’m not looking for simplicity, I’m looking for a good final product. ePub
shouldn’t be simpler, it’s just made for eBooks.
On the other hand there are editors with WYSIWYG support like:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-K2Q-tdVbPRI/UI08v7LhzHI/ABY/vZ5LHjM6nb4/s1600/Screen+Shot+2012-10-28+at+10.07.03+AM.png
And of course there is iBooks Author that I mentioned.

I’m not trying to convince, I’m just trying to understand why development of
a new syntax is better the reusing/extending existing one. Or why we can’t
use epub + sigil for example.

IT IS NOT A NEW SYNTAX!!!
We have this neutral syntax that proved to work for real and we have exporters
and with a bit of work we will be able to
generate all the formats we want.

So if you need epub, add a visitor and all the chapters I'm writing will be in
epub too.
But I will not work with a syntax that does not let me write book, html, ….
Why because this is my time.

Stef

Cheers.
Uko

--
Damien Cassou
http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without
losing enthusiasm.
Winston Churchill

Re: [Pharo-dev] Using Gutenberg

 
 
 I have nothing against pier syntax. But imagine person coming from outside, 
 who used markdown to ask questions on stack overflow and write readmes on 
 github, and here he has to use a different syntax for the same purpose. Just 
 a thought about bringing new people into a community :)

with the same attitute, why do you do smalltalk when there is JS?

Stef

Re: [Pharo-dev] Using Gutenberg

Well were are the books you wrote with this wonderful format?
The only guy I can consider is sven. Why because he is writing real
documentation.
Now I'm confident that sevn could write in pier syntax because this is really
close to markdown.
What is missing is the immediate rendering of pier syntax as in the
collabactive book.

Stef

On Oct 30, 2013, at 8:09 PM, Camillo Bruni camillobr...@gmail.com wrote:

I’m not trying to convince, I’m just trying to understand why development
of a new syntax is better the reusing/extending existing one. Or why we
can’t use epub + sigil for example.

I personally *love* Markdown, it is very easy/productive to write
documentation in.

But,

Pier syntax is not new, it is probably older than Markdown.

As far as I am concerned, the most prolific/active authors get to decide,
it is a simple as that.

I am just hoping that their standalone parser and document model is high
quality ;-)

I agree with you 100%... plus I use markdown for webdoc =
http://files.pharo.org/doc/2.0/

Re: [Pharo-dev] About BitBlt current - BitBlt (Fuel)

Where did you find that method? I couldn’t find any implementors or references…

On 30.10.2013, at 21:42, Mariano Martinez Peck marianop...@gmail.com wrote:

 BTWit is time to move the hashBits: to a more general classbut the 
 question is where? 
 
 
 On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 6:21 PM, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr 
 wrote:
 Fuel was using BitBlt current and I change that to BitBlt
 
 Stef
 
 On Oct 29, 2013, at 10:55 AM, Max Leske maxle...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Stef, what exactly is the influence on Fuel? I looked at the changes of 
  your slice and couldn’t find anything…
 
  Max
 
 
  On 25.10.2013, at 16:26, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote:
 
  Hi
 
  I just pushed a change cleaning some strange usage.
  BitBlt was sometimes invoked via BitBlt current (which just returned the 
  BitBlt class).
  Apparently in Squeak they removed it too.
 
  Now it touches Fuel so Fuel guys can you merge on your side too?
 
   https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/12009/BitBlt-current-BitBlt
 
  Stef
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 -- 
 Mariano
 http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

[Pharo-dev] Formatting dates

Heya, guys--

Converting a Ruby program to Pharo, and one of the things this program does
is write a file out by date. The format is mmdd (which is my
preferred naming convention). In Ruby I have:

%04d % d.year + %02d % d.month + %02d % d.day

In Smalltalk, the closest I can seem to get to this is:

d year asString, (d monthIndex asString padLeftTo: 2 with: $0), (d
dayOfMonth asString padLeftTo: 2 with: $0)

...which seems sort verbose. Anyone have any more elegant solutions?

Re: [Pharo-dev] Formatting dates

2013-10-30 Thread Chris Muller

Date today mmdd.  prints '2013-10-30'


:)

On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 3:55 PM, blake dsblakewat...@gmail.com wrote:
 Heya, guys--

 Converting a Ruby program to Pharo, and one of the things this program does
 is write a file out by date. The format is mmdd (which is my preferred
 naming convention). In Ruby I have:

 %04d % d.year + %02d % d.month + %02d % d.day

 In Smalltalk, the closest I can seem to get to this is:

 d year asString, (d monthIndex asString padLeftTo: 2 with: $0), (d
 dayOfMonth asString padLeftTo: 2 with: $0)

 ...which seems sort verbose. Anyone have any more elegant solutions?

Re: [Pharo-dev] Formatting dates

2013-10-30 Thread Frank Shearar

On 30 October 2013 20:55, blake dsblakewat...@gmail.com wrote:
 Heya, guys--

 Converting a Ruby program to Pharo, and one of the things this program does
 is write a file out by date. The format is mmdd (which is my preferred
 naming convention). In Ruby I have:

 %04d % d.year + %02d % d.month + %02d % d.day

Why not %04d%02d%02d % [d.year, d.month, d.day] ?

 In Smalltalk, the closest I can seem to get to this is:

 d year asString, (d monthIndex asString padLeftTo: 2 with: $0), (d
 dayOfMonth asString padLeftTo: 2 with: $0)

 ...which seems sort verbose. Anyone have any more elegant solutions?

Chris has already given a near solution. You just need to select:
#isDigit on the end of his answer to get exactly what you want.

frank

Re: [Pharo-dev] Using Gutenberg

On 30 Oct 2013, at 21:44, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote:

On Oct 30, 2013, at 5:53 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymc...@me.com wrote:

This makes sense. But I have 2 opinions:

1) If we want something like markdown, why not to use Markdown?

because we will have to patch it anyway because it is uncomplete (missing
features for making decent book).

2) When I think about the book I think about something nice. I don’t think
that markdown is good for books. That’s exactly what I encountered. I wanted
to start with this updated version of RBE and wanted to use Gutenberg so it
will be possible to put the book on iBook store and Amazon and read it on
iDevices and Kindles. But When I started to rewrite latex source in
Gutenberg I’ve found that a lot of details are going to be missing, because
the is no support in Gutenberg for them.

Like what?
Be precise because we can extend gutenberg to cover these needs.
Because we took the previous pharo book macros and reduce the set.

That’s my main question: why won’t we write books in ePub (because it the #1
eBooks format) and confer it to .mobi (for kindles) as the formats can be
converted without a problem.

Because with gutenberg+ we can generate
- latex
- markdown
- html
so you can add epub

Just why do you need a book in markdown?

I do not want to eith write doc or book or html I want one format to produce
them all.

I’d also enjoy to write books in iBooks Author, but it will be hard to
cooperate as not everybody is using Mac.

Cheers.
Uko

On 30 Oct 2013, at 17:36, Damien Cassou damien.cas...@gmail.com wrote:

On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 4:09 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk yuriy.tymc...@me.com wrote:
Why do we need Pier-Gutenberg? Why can’t we gust use ePub for example?

--
Damien Cassou
http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without
losing enthusiasm.
Winston Churchill

[Pharo-dev] How to create lines with Athens

2013-10-30 Thread dimitris chloupis

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/19694197/how-to-create-lines-with-athens

Re: [Pharo-dev] Formatting dates

2013-10-30 Thread Chris Cunningham

Or:

Date today printFormat: #(3 2 1 0 1 1 2)


On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 2:13 PM, Frank Shearar frank.shea...@gmail.comwrote:

 On 30 October 2013 20:55, blake dsblakewat...@gmail.com wrote:
  Heya, guys--
 
  Converting a Ruby program to Pharo, and one of the things this program
 does
  is write a file out by date. The format is mmdd (which is my
 preferred
  naming convention). In Ruby I have:
 
  %04d % d.year + %02d % d.month + %02d % d.day

 Why not %04d%02d%02d % [d.year, d.month, d.day] ?

  In Smalltalk, the closest I can seem to get to this is:
 
  d year asString, (d monthIndex asString padLeftTo: 2 with: $0), (d
  dayOfMonth asString padLeftTo: 2 with: $0)
 
  ...which seems sort verbose. Anyone have any more elegant solutions?

 Chris has already given a near solution. You just need to select:
 #isDigit on the end of his answer to get exactly what you want.

 frank

Re: [Pharo-dev] Using Gutenberg

On 30 Oct 2013, at 21:48, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote:

markdown misses a lot of features we need to write a book as you
highlight in your next point. So I don't understand your question :-)

If you want to write a comment and display it in Amber I don’t see why
people have to learn a new markup language when there is markdown.

Because you learn markdown first but pier syntax predates it. and because
like that we have one syntax for everything.
Did you notice that the seaside book was fully written with this syntax and
it WORKS!!!

For me it’s like stating that we’ll make one car that will be able to win both
Formula 1 and Dakar Rally.

I’m not looking for simplicity, I’m looking for a good final product. ePub
shouldn’t be simpler, it’s just made for eBooks.
On the other hand there are editors with WYSIWYG support like:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-K2Q-tdVbPRI/UI08v7LhzHI/ABY/vZ5LHjM6nb4/s1600/Screen+Shot+2012-10-28+at+10.07.03+AM.png
And of course there is iBooks Author that I mentioned.

I’m not trying to convince, I’m just trying to understand why development of
a new syntax is better the reusing/extending existing one. Or why we can’t
use epub + sigil for example.

IT IS NOT A NEW SYNTAX!!!
We have this neutral syntax that proved to work for real and we have
exporters and with a bit of work we will be able to
generate all the formats we want.

Just talking about newcomers.

So if you need epub, add a visitor and all the chapters I'm writing will be
in epub too.
But I will not work with a syntax that does not let me write book, html, ….
Why because this is my time.

Stef

Cheers.
Uko

--
Damien Cassou
http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without
losing enthusiasm.
Winston Churchill

Re: [Pharo-dev] Losing instance variable addition

I don't think there's something to fix.
You cannot 'extend' classes belonging to other package in any other way
than adding extension methods.
Allowing extension of ivars or any other vars by foreign package
is road to nowhere.

I would not like if shape of my kernel classes depends on what packages i
load
or in what order i loaded them.
To me it is clear that if one needs to add/remove/modify instance variables
of some class, those changes should belong to the package containing that
class,
not some random package.


On 30 October 2013 19:15, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.frwrote:

 Ok in fact
 Gisela forked the AST-Core package to be able to load a new version with
 the instance variables.
 Because there is no way to say that a class definition modification is
 attached to a given package.

 Stef

  Apparently the problem is that gisela is adding instance variable to a
 class that is not in the Flamel package.
  So it was working before but not anymore.
 
  Stef
 
 
 
  Hi guys
 
  we are losing instance variables addition when loading a package.
  Here is the example:
 
   Gofer new
   url: 'http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/gisela/Flamel/main';
   version:   'Flamel-GiselaDecuzzi.94';
   load
 
  Normally RBProgramNode should have three new instance variables and not
 this is not the case.
  Is it a known bug?
 
  Stef
 
 





-- 
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko.

Re: [Pharo-dev] Formatting dates

Hi Blake,

On 30 Oct 2013, at 21:55, blake dsblakewat...@gmail.com wrote:

 Heya, guys--
 
 Converting a Ruby program to Pharo, and one of the things this program does 
 is write a file out by date. The format is mmdd (which is my preferred 
 naming convention). In Ruby I have:
 
 %04d % d.year + %02d % d.month + %02d % d.day
 
 In Smalltalk, the closest I can seem to get to this is:
 
 d year asString, (d monthIndex asString padLeftTo: 2 with: $0), (d dayOfMonth 
 asString padLeftTo: 2 with: $0)
 
 ...which seems sort verbose. Anyone have any more elegant solutions?

Using the ‘by example’ formatter/parser that is part of the ZTimestamp package 
(can be loaded using the Configuration Browser), you could say:

  (ZTimestampFormat fromString: '20010203') format: Date today.

Although it is called ZTimestampFormat, it can actually work with Date, Time, 
DateAndTime as well.

Sven

Re: [Pharo-dev] About BitBlt current - BitBlt (Fuel)

2013-10-30 Thread Mariano Martinez Peck

hehehe sorry, it was #hackBits: :)


On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 6:52 PM, Max Leske maxle...@gmail.com wrote:

 Where did you find that method? I couldn’t find any implementors or
 references…

 On 30.10.2013, at 21:42, Mariano Martinez Peck marianop...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 BTWit is time to move the hashBits: to a more general classbut the
 question is where?


 On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 6:21 PM, Stéphane Ducasse 
 stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote:

 Fuel was using BitBlt current and I change that to BitBlt

 Stef

 On Oct 29, 2013, at 10:55 AM, Max Leske maxle...@gmail.com wrote:

  Stef, what exactly is the influence on Fuel? I looked at the changes of
 your slice and couldn’t find anything…
 
  Max
 
 
  On 25.10.2013, at 16:26, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr
 wrote:
 
  Hi
 
  I just pushed a change cleaning some strange usage.
  BitBlt was sometimes invoked via BitBlt current (which just returned
 the BitBlt class).
  Apparently in Squeak they removed it too.
 
  Now it touches Fuel so Fuel guys can you merge on your side too?
 
   https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/12009/BitBlt-current-BitBlt
 
  Stef
 
 





 --
 Mariano
 http://marianopeck.wordpress.com





-- 
Mariano
http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Re: [Pharo-dev] How to create lines with Athens

2013-10-30 Thread kilon alios

well I just asked if there is any kind of Documentation about Athens . Or
should I just read the code and ask questions ?


On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 11:51 PM, Igor Stasenko siguc...@gmail.com wrote:

 i hope you satisfied with my answer.
 you welcome to ask more, if you not :)


 On 30 October 2013 22:32, dimitris chloupis theki...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:


 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/19694197/how-to-create-lines-with-athens




 --
 Best regards,
 Igor Stasenko.

[Pharo-dev] My talk today at Smalltalks 2013

2013-10-30 Thread Esteban Lorenzano

Here are the slides: 

http://www.slideshare.net/pharoproject/smalltalks13-pharo-techoverview

I think it didn't went so bad... :)

Esteban

Re: [Pharo-dev] Formatting dates

Chris,

On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Chris Muller asquea...@gmail.com wrote:

 Date today mmdd.  prints '2013-10-30'


I don't want the separator.

===Blake===

Re: [Pharo-dev] Formatting dates

Why not %04d%02d%02d % [d.year, d.month, d.day] ?

Probably because I'm not super-comfortable with all of Ruby's many, many,
many features.

Chris has already given a near solution. You just need to select:
#isDigit on the end of his answer to get exactly what you want.

I figured there was a good way to use select: but couldn't think of it,
thanks.

Date today mmdd select: #isDigit

is not bad, though I'd think you should be able to set the separator
somehow (or remove it, as in my case).

Re: [Pharo-dev] Formatting dates

Good to know, thanks. That looks cool.


On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe s...@stfx.eu wrote:

 Hi Blake,

 On 30 Oct 2013, at 21:55, blake dsblakewat...@gmail.com wrote:

  Heya, guys--
 
  Converting a Ruby program to Pharo, and one of the things this program
 does is write a file out by date. The format is mmdd (which is my
 preferred naming convention). In Ruby I have:
 
  %04d % d.year + %02d % d.month + %02d % d.day
 
  In Smalltalk, the closest I can seem to get to this is:
 
  d year asString, (d monthIndex asString padLeftTo: 2 with: $0), (d
 dayOfMonth asString padLeftTo: 2 with: $0)
 
  ...which seems sort verbose. Anyone have any more elegant solutions?

 Using the ‘by example’ formatter/parser that is part of the ZTimestamp
 package (can be loaded using the Configuration Browser), you could say:

   (ZTimestampFormat fromString: '20010203') format: Date today.

 Although it is called ZTimestampFormat, it can actually work with Date,
 Time, DateAndTime as well.

 Sven

Re: [Pharo-dev] Formatting dates


On 30 Oct 2013, at 22:46, Nicolas Cellier nicolas.cellier.aka.n...@gmail.com 
wrote:

 Why not a more discriminating example, like '19991231’?

From the class comment:

…
You instanciate me by specifying the textual format by example, based on a 
#reference timetamp. 

Each component of the example representation is numbered from largest to 
smallest unit, 1=year, 2=month, 3=dayInMonth, 4=hour (16 in 24 hour format), 
5=minute and 6=second, as in the ISO representation: 2001-02-03T16:05:06Z which 
is a Saterday. Example format strings can be found in my class accessing 
protocol or in the unit tests.
…

But of course, internally there is less magic: it are just specific keys/tokens 
that are recognised ;-) The example is kind of compiled though to make it more 
efficient should you reuse the format.

 2013/10/30 Sven Van Caekenberghe s...@stfx.eu
 Hi Blake,
 
 On 30 Oct 2013, at 21:55, blake dsblakewat...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Heya, guys--
 
  Converting a Ruby program to Pharo, and one of the things this program does 
  is write a file out by date. The format is mmdd (which is my 
  preferred naming convention). In Ruby I have:
 
  %04d % d.year + %02d % d.month + %02d % d.day
 
  In Smalltalk, the closest I can seem to get to this is:
 
  d year asString, (d monthIndex asString padLeftTo: 2 with: $0), (d 
  dayOfMonth asString padLeftTo: 2 with: $0)
 
  ...which seems sort verbose. Anyone have any more elegant solutions?
 
 Using the ‘by example’ formatter/parser that is part of the ZTimestamp 
 package (can be loaded using the Configuration Browser), you could say:
 
   (ZTimestampFormat fromString: '20010203') format: Date today.
 
 Although it is called ZTimestampFormat, it can actually work with Date, Time, 
 DateAndTime as well.
 
 Sven

Re: [Pharo-dev] Formatting dates

Date today printFormat: #(3 2 1 0 1 1 2)

Wait, that's what I was trying for, initially (although it's not
super-clear). I did not get that I could use 0 (or apparently a bunch of
other characters) as a separator. I didn't see this code at the bottom of
printOn:format:

(formatArray at: 4) ~= 0

Re: [Pharo-dev] How to create lines with Athens

On 30 October 2013 23:02, kilon alios kilon.al...@gmail.com wrote:

 well I just asked if there is any kind of Documentation about Athens . Or
 should I just read the code and ask questions ?


the main source of documentation right now is class comments
and tutorial.
I've spent quite of a time commenting the central classes of athens,
hope that's helpful.
Of course this does not replacement for a well written docu, and that needs
to be done.



 On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 11:51 PM, Igor Stasenko siguc...@gmail.comwrote:

 i hope you satisfied with my answer.
 you welcome to ask more, if you not :)


 On 30 October 2013 22:32, dimitris chloupis theki...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:


 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/19694197/how-to-create-lines-with-athens




 --
 Best regards,
 Igor Stasenko.





-- 
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko.

Re: [Pharo-dev] How to create lines with Athens