Re: [Pharo-dev] [Moose-dev] feenk log

[Tudor Girba]

Hi,

Bindings is an issue indeed. They are at the same level as theming and we are 
not at that level yet.

At present time we are focused on showing the breadth of what we can achieve 
with the new infrastructure. We are currently using only the Bloc keybinding 
mechanism (equivalent to Keymapping).

We did explore the use of Commander, but it was not a match for our initial 
work. This does not mean that it’s not a good library. Just that we are still 
exploring and still need to learn what we need. Our focus is on an 
infrastructure for actions that is as close as possible to Bloc, and to figure 
out which parts need to go at which level of abstraction.

Cheers,
Doru



> On Aug 17, 2018, at 5:14 PM, Stéphane Ducasse  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Doru 
> 
> this is great. We are brainstorming to see if and how Commander should be 
> tuned to offer a smoother extensibility. 
> Julien was developing commands for all his spec tools and guille used 
> commander for Iceberg. 
> We plan to have a meeting brainstorming about commands and context when 
> guille is back from vacation (before 
> ESUG). On your side what did you use for the key binding?
> 
> I would like to able to have pluggable binding so that we can have emacs like 
> ctrl a / ctrle …
> 
> Stef
> 
>> On 17 Aug 2018, at 06:47, Tudor Girba  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> We again got carried away and forgot to update the world about what is up in 
>> our corner. Here is a summary:
>> 
>> --
>> Bloc & Brick
>> --
>> 
>> - Text editor stability has been significantly improved
>> - Improved support for selection in the text editor
>> - Support for typical editing keybindings (copy, cut, paste)
>> - Text editor debuggability:
>> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1024680215379959808
>> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1020768298017992704
>> - The text editor can handle emojis:
>> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1021872214151507968
>> 
>> --
>> GT
>> --
>> 
>> - Inspector
>> We now have an initial version of a working inspector with resizable panes:
>> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1030091849795612672
>> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1030314856736538624
>> It shows a display string for the current object:
>> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1024564065870512129
>> It can handle errors in the definition of views gracefully:
>> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1009174937217720320
>> We now have multiple extensions expressed in the new Inspector:
>> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1024321868566814720
>> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1022393383850008576
>> 
>> - Documenter saw multiple enhancements.
>> We can now resize various previews live:
>> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1002851190475026432
>> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1001407762285375490
>> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1001152789874167808
>> It now relies on the annotation mechanism from Pillar:
>> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1006508725409079298
>> We can now link classes and expand their definition:
>> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1014609460520775681
>> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1029085603948843008
>> The preview of examples can handle errors gracefully:
>> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1022123808524836864
>> We can run examples in place, enabling a smoother tutorial experience:
>> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1028390957023223809
>> We have new documentation expressed in it:
>> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/100700881420672
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Have fun,
>> The feenk team
>> 
>> --
>> www.feenk.com
>> 
>> "Presenting is storytelling."
>> 
>> ___
>> Moose-dev mailing list
>> moose-...@list.inf.unibe.ch
>> https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev
> 
> 
> Stéphane Ducasse
> http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr
> http://www.synectique.eu / http://www.pharo.org 
> 03 59 35 87 52
> Assistant: Julie Jonas 
> FAX 03 59 57 78 50
> TEL 03 59 35 86 16
> S. Ducasse - Inria
> 40, avenue Halley, 
> Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza
> Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650
> France
> 
> ___
> Moose-dev mailing list
> moose-...@list.inf.unibe.ch
> https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev

--
www.feenk.com

"Yesterday is a fact.
 Tomorrow is a possibility.
 Today is a challenge."

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Moose-dev] feenk log

[Stéphane Ducasse]

Hi Doru 

this is great. We are brainstorming to see if and how Commander should be tuned 
to offer a smoother extensibility. 
Julien was developing commands for all his spec tools and guille used commander 
for Iceberg. 
We plan to have a meeting brainstorming about commands and context when guille 
is back from vacation (before 
ESUG). On your side what did you use for the key binding?

I would like to able to have pluggable binding so that we can have emacs like 
ctrl a / ctrle …

Stef

> On 17 Aug 2018, at 06:47, Tudor Girba  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> We again got carried away and forgot to update the world about what is up in 
> our corner. Here is a summary:
> 
> --
> Bloc & Brick
> --
> 
> - Text editor stability has been significantly improved
> - Improved support for selection in the text editor
> - Support for typical editing keybindings (copy, cut, paste)
> - Text editor debuggability:
> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1024680215379959808
> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1020768298017992704
> - The text editor can handle emojis:
> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1021872214151507968
> 
> --
> GT
> --
> 
> - Inspector
> We now have an initial version of a working inspector with resizable panes:
> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1030091849795612672
> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1030314856736538624
> It shows a display string for the current object:
> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1024564065870512129
> It can handle errors in the definition of views gracefully:
> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1009174937217720320
> We now have multiple extensions expressed in the new Inspector:
> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1024321868566814720
> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1022393383850008576
> 
> - Documenter saw multiple enhancements.
> We can now resize various previews live:
> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1002851190475026432
> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1001407762285375490
> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1001152789874167808
> It now relies on the annotation mechanism from Pillar:
> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1006508725409079298
> We can now link classes and expand their definition:
> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1014609460520775681
> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1029085603948843008
> The preview of examples can handle errors gracefully:
> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1022123808524836864
> We can run examples in place, enabling a smoother tutorial experience:
> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1028390957023223809
> We have new documentation expressed in it:
> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/100700881420672
> 
> 
> 
> Have fun,
> The feenk team
> 
> --
> www.feenk.com
> 
> "Presenting is storytelling."
> 
> ___
> Moose-dev mailing list
> moose-...@list.inf.unibe.ch
> https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev


Stéphane Ducasse
http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr
http://www.synectique.eu / http://www.pharo.org 
03 59 35 87 52
Assistant: Julie Jonas 
FAX 03 59 57 78 50
TEL 03 59 35 86 16
S. Ducasse - Inria
40, avenue Halley, 
Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza
Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650
France

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Moose-dev] feenk log

[Ben Coman]

On Fri, 17 Aug 2018 at 12:48, Tudor Girba  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> We again got carried away and forgot to update the world about what is up in 
> our corner. Here is a summary:

Thanks for the update.  Nice to see the progress.

>
> --
> Bloc & Brick
> --
>
> - Text editor stability has been significantly improved
> - Improved support for selection in the text editor
> - Support for typical editing keybindings (copy, cut, paste)
> - Text editor debuggability:
> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1024680215379959808
> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/1020768298017992704

Nice demos.  If possible, it would be interesting to see movement or a
selection in the first video,
dynamically updating a treeview in a second-Inspector-pane.

cheers -ben

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Moose-dev] feenk log

[Tudor Girba]

Hi,

> On Jan 21, 2018, at 10:37 PM, Ben Coman  wrote:
> 
> On 21 January 2018 at 23:55, Tudor Girba  wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> There is a difference in performance. The Announcement is slower (about 2-3x 
>> slower). However, for 1M events the difference is measured in a 200-400ms, 
>> which is very small.
> 
> So you mean each event <1ms difference?
> btw, what is the biggest usage of events? I guess mouse movements?
> How many such events typically in 1 second of movement?
> How is performance on StackInterpreter VM?
> I guess we should keep that performant for platforms lacking JIT like
> iPads, etc…

It depends on the scene. We are still looking into how to evaluate this. That’s 
why we still have both implementations around.


>> The benefit of using Announcement is that we can reuse the tooling around 
>> Announcement, such as blogging and debugging.
> 
> This looks really useful.  Can you describe the difference between the
> red and blue lines in the picture of the first link?

Each event goes through two passes, like in JavaScript:
- The first is called “capturing” (or filtering) and goes from the root to the 
leaf. This is to allow a parent to prevent a child to react to an event.
- The second one is called “bubbling” (or handling) and goes from the leaf to 
the root. This is to find the most specific element to handle the event.

Cheers,
Tudor


> cheers -ben
> 
>> 
>> Still, the way it is used in Bloc is different from the typical usage in 
>> that Bloc registers to all Events (which are Announcements) and then 
>> dispatches through them to specific Element method (like 
>> BlEventListener>>clickEvent:). Still the cool thing is that you also can 
>> still register from the outside to a specific event using a normal when:do:.
>> 
>> We will write a piece of doc about it.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Tudor
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 21, 2018, at 4:46 PM, Stéphane Ducasse  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> this looks really cool.
>>> For the event I remember the discussion with glenn about the difference and 
>>> I forgot.
>>> 
>>> Stef
>>> 
 On 21 Jan 2018, at 15:54, Tudor Girba  wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 Here is an update of the work on Bloc and GT. As always, please do let us 
 know what you think.
 
 Bloc:
 - Eventing saw a deep overhaul. They are now dispatched using the 
 Announcements engine. The previous mechanism is still in place in order to 
 help people compare the impact. In the process, we also cleaned the 
 propagation of events, and we made them debuggable through inspector 
 extensions:
 https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/955086133519618048
 https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/946482609680539649
 - Embedding Bloc elements in Morphic is even easier now:
 https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/946676667002556416
 - We continued the work towards an interactive creation of a graphical 
 scene:
 https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/948492946541858816
 - Theme experiment
 
 GT:
 - The documentation of Mondrian is available when you download the code 
 and can be viewed using GT Documenter:
 https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/939394586115563520
 - The Mondrian extensions of BlElement are now extracted in a more general 
 package that enables Bloc elements to be used in graph scenes.
 
 Have fun,
 The feenk team
 
 
 --
 www.tudorgirba.com
 www.feenk.com
 
 "Obvious things are difficult to teach."
 
 
 
 
 ___
 Moose-dev mailing list
 moose-...@list.inf.unibe.ch
 https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Stéphane Ducasse
>>> http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr
>>> http://www.synectique.eu / http://www.pharo.org
>>> 03 59 35 87 52
>>> Assistant: Julie Jonas
>>> FAX 03 59 57 78 50
>>> TEL 03 59 35 86 16
>>> S. Ducasse - Inria
>>> 40, avenue Halley,
>>> Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza
>>> Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650
>>> France
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> Moose-dev mailing list
>>> moose-...@list.inf.unibe.ch
>>> https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev
>> 
>> --
>> www.tudorgirba.com
>> www.feenk.com
>> 
>> "Beauty is where we see it."
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Moose-dev mailing list
>> moose-...@list.inf.unibe.ch
>> https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev
> ___
> Moose-dev mailing list
> moose-...@list.inf.unibe.ch
> https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev

--
www.tudorgirba.com
www.feenk.com

"Every thing should have the right to be different."

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Moose-dev] feenk log

[Stéphane Ducasse]

this looks really cool. 
For the event I remember the discussion with glenn about the difference and I 
forgot. 

Stef

> On 21 Jan 2018, at 15:54, Tudor Girba  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Here is an update of the work on Bloc and GT. As always, please do let us 
> know what you think.
> 
> Bloc:
> - Eventing saw a deep overhaul. They are now dispatched using the 
> Announcements engine. The previous mechanism is still in place in order to 
> help people compare the impact. In the process, we also cleaned the 
> propagation of events, and we made them debuggable through inspector 
> extensions:
> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/955086133519618048
> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/946482609680539649
> - Embedding Bloc elements in Morphic is even easier now:
> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/946676667002556416
> - We continued the work towards an interactive creation of a graphical scene:
> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/948492946541858816
> - Theme experiment
> 
> GT:
> - The documentation of Mondrian is available when you download the code and 
> can be viewed using GT Documenter:
> https://twitter.com/feenkcom/status/939394586115563520
> - The Mondrian extensions of BlElement are now extracted in a more general 
> package that enables Bloc elements to be used in graph scenes.
> 
> Have fun,
> The feenk team
> 
> 
> --
> www.tudorgirba.com
> www.feenk.com
> 
> "Obvious things are difficult to teach."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Moose-dev mailing list
> moose-...@list.inf.unibe.ch
> https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev


Stéphane Ducasse
http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr
http://www.synectique.eu / http://www.pharo.org 
03 59 35 87 52
Assistant: Julie Jonas 
FAX 03 59 57 78 50
TEL 03 59 35 86 16
S. Ducasse - Inria
40, avenue Halley, 
Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza
Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650
France

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Moose-dev] feenk log

[Peter Uhnák]

Great work guys!

Even though I don't have much time to work with Bloc yet, every time I play
with it, I find it really enjoyable. :)

Also +1 for draggable elements, another thing to tick of my "must have"
list. :)

Peter