Re: [Phono-L] 1927/ Viva Tonal Columbia Felt Colors
Based on what I see in mine (and its cruder ancestor in my Grafonola 75, 1915), the auto stop is a mechanism that works in conjunction with the motor via levers - a la the brake/stop/start underneath or above the motor board. It is completely outside the sound reproducing system. It should not have any connection to / intrusion upon anything from the horn all the way to the sound box, so it shouldn't contribute to leaks. Very odd. What model is yours Jim? (btw There's a nice 2-page ad on eBay right now that has photos of the 1927 models, mine is the lowest end and is only mentioned parenthetically, haha.) I agree that for Columbia to omit this in the higher end models (especially if they went to the effort of using velveteen) is surprising. Do you see anything under the platter that might suggest there might once have been an auto stop? On 1/9/13 1:13 AM, Jim Cartwright jim...@earthlink.net wrote: My large Viva-tonal (cabinet larger than Orthophonic Credenza, partially because doors slide into sides of cabinet)has green velveteen on the turntable. After the local repairman sealed the horn rebuilt the soundbox it sounds splendid even on late 1930s recordings such as Beecham conducting Mozart's Symphony in E-flat with the London Philharmonic. My only regret is that it lacks the marvelous non-set automatic stop that would cut off at the end of any record. A surprising lack in this next to top of the line model. Might this have been because it would introduce air leaks? -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Arvin Casas Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 9:03 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 1927/ Viva Tonal Columbia Felt Colors Thanks for the helpful info everyone! (Apologies for the late reply but I only subscribe to the digest.) I contacted the youtube poster of the videos that DanKj linked to and posted on the phonoland board where I'm also a member. Based on the responses from all three sources, it's Green-land for me! :) I found one tiny oil stained mini-bumper in the cabinet late last night, once green, so that confirms everyone's input. I ordered a Victor sized green felt replacement from Walt @ Gettysburg and will trim it down to size. I have leftovers from a botched turntable job on a Grafonola I restored a few months ago which I'll use for bumpers. Ron - Interesting about the velvet. Apparently they used felt early on, as in my case, but by the 700 800 series Columbia had models with velvet (I learned this via phonoland.) Does the velvet help make the records sound smoother? (Just kidding, though perhaps there's an audiophile who might ardently argue that.) Thanks again all. On 1/7/13 9:52 PM, Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu wrote: My Vivatonals both have what looks like green velvet on the turntables. Bumpers look like green felt. Ron L On 1/8/13 2:51 AM, DanKj ediso...@verizon.net wrote: There's a 602 on YooToob, TT felt visible: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL4n1HyTfq4 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] 1927/ Viva Tonal Columbia Reproducers and Silvertone machines
Hello Columbia Viva Tonal owners, What reproducer is found on your machines? Is it the Columbia 15A type? Any Silvertone owners of orthophonic machines out there? Does anyone have the Silvertone machines sold by Sears in 1927 that look like Victors with different names including the Kenmore? For those who want so see what I am talking about I can send a huge file off list. This huge file was made by someone else who made copies from the original catalog. I believe Wayne made it, what a wonderful catalog for those who cannot remember 1927 Sears phonographs. Steve Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 16:27:25 -0500 From: aca...@spamcop.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 1927/ Viva Tonal Columbia Felt Colors Based on what I see in mine (and its cruder ancestor in my Grafonola 75, 1915), the auto stop is a mechanism that works in conjunction with the motor via levers - a la the brake/stop/start underneath or above the motor board. It is completely outside the sound reproducing system. It should not have any connection to / intrusion upon anything from the horn all the way to the sound box, so it shouldn't contribute to leaks. Very odd. What model is yours Jim? (btw There's a nice 2-page ad on eBay right now that has photos of the 1927 models, mine is the lowest end and is only mentioned parenthetically, haha.) I agree that for Columbia to omit this in the higher end models (especially if they went to the effort of using velveteen) is surprising. Do you see anything under the platter that might suggest there might once have been an auto stop? On 1/9/13 1:13 AM, Jim Cartwright jim...@earthlink.net wrote: My large Viva-tonal (cabinet larger than Orthophonic Credenza, partially because doors slide into sides of cabinet)has green velveteen on the turntable. After the local repairman sealed the horn rebuilt the soundbox it sounds splendid even on late 1930s recordings such as Beecham conducting Mozart's Symphony in E-flat with the London Philharmonic. My only regret is that it lacks the marvelous non-set automatic stop that would cut off at the end of any record. A surprising lack in this next to top of the line model. Might this have been because it would introduce air leaks? -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Arvin Casas Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 9:03 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 1927/ Viva Tonal Columbia Felt Colors Thanks for the helpful info everyone! (Apologies for the late reply but I only subscribe to the digest.) I contacted the youtube poster of the videos that DanKj linked to and posted on the phonoland board where I'm also a member. Based on the responses from all three sources, it's Green-land for me! :) I found one tiny oil stained mini-bumper in the cabinet late last night, once green, so that confirms everyone's input. I ordered a Victor sized green felt replacement from Walt @ Gettysburg and will trim it down to size. I have leftovers from a botched turntable job on a Grafonola I restored a few months ago which I'll use for bumpers. Ron - Interesting about the velvet. Apparently they used felt early on, as in my case, but by the 700 800 series Columbia had models with velvet (I learned this via phonoland.) Does the velvet help make the records sound smoother? (Just kidding, though perhaps there's an audiophile who might ardently argue that.) Thanks again all. On 1/7/13 9:52 PM, Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu wrote: My Vivatonals both have what looks like green velvet on the turntables. Bumpers look like green felt. Ron L On 1/8/13 2:51 AM, DanKj ediso...@verizon.net wrote: There's a 602 on YooToob, TT felt visible: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL4n1HyTfq4 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] 1927/ Viva Tonal Columbia Felt Colors
Who is VTM company that made this video? Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 16:27:25 -0500 From: aca...@spamcop.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 1927/ Viva Tonal Columbia Felt Colors Based on what I see in mine (and its cruder ancestor in my Grafonola 75, 1915), the auto stop is a mechanism that works in conjunction with the motor via levers - a la the brake/stop/start underneath or above the motor board. It is completely outside the sound reproducing system. It should not have any connection to / intrusion upon anything from the horn all the way to the sound box, so it shouldn't contribute to leaks. Very odd. What model is yours Jim? (btw There's a nice 2-page ad on eBay right now that has photos of the 1927 models, mine is the lowest end and is only mentioned parenthetically, haha.) I agree that for Columbia to omit this in the higher end models (especially if they went to the effort of using velveteen) is surprising. Do you see anything under the platter that might suggest there might once have been an auto stop? On 1/9/13 1:13 AM, Jim Cartwright jim...@earthlink.net wrote: My large Viva-tonal (cabinet larger than Orthophonic Credenza, partially because doors slide into sides of cabinet)has green velveteen on the turntable. After the local repairman sealed the horn rebuilt the soundbox it sounds splendid even on late 1930s recordings such as Beecham conducting Mozart's Symphony in E-flat with the London Philharmonic. My only regret is that it lacks the marvelous non-set automatic stop that would cut off at the end of any record. A surprising lack in this next to top of the line model. Might this have been because it would introduce air leaks? -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Arvin Casas Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 9:03 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 1927/ Viva Tonal Columbia Felt Colors Thanks for the helpful info everyone! (Apologies for the late reply but I only subscribe to the digest.) I contacted the youtube poster of the videos that DanKj linked to and posted on the phonoland board where I'm also a member. Based on the responses from all three sources, it's Green-land for me! :) I found one tiny oil stained mini-bumper in the cabinet late last night, once green, so that confirms everyone's input. I ordered a Victor sized green felt replacement from Walt @ Gettysburg and will trim it down to size. I have leftovers from a botched turntable job on a Grafonola I restored a few months ago which I'll use for bumpers. Ron - Interesting about the velvet. Apparently they used felt early on, as in my case, but by the 700 800 series Columbia had models with velvet (I learned this via phonoland.) Does the velvet help make the records sound smoother? (Just kidding, though perhaps there's an audiophile who might ardently argue that.) Thanks again all. On 1/7/13 9:52 PM, Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu wrote: My Vivatonals both have what looks like green velvet on the turntables. Bumpers look like green felt. Ron L On 1/8/13 2:51 AM, DanKj ediso...@verizon.net wrote: There's a 602 on YooToob, TT felt visible: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL4n1HyTfq4 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] 1927/ Viva Tonal Columbia Felt Colors
I have the models 611, 613, and 810 which do not have the non-set (NS) auto stop feature, and I have never seen any of the VivaTonal models that included the NS feature. Checking the Baumbach book Columbia Phonograph Companion, Vol II I see that the NS feature seems to have begun with the new line of machines introduced in 1918 and continued thru the New Columbia series from 1924 to 1926. But it seems to have been dropped in the later VivaTonal and electric series of machines. The NS feature was somewhat complicated and may have proven difficult to maintain which may have been the reason that Columbia omitted it in their later models. They used an improved auto-stop feature in the electronic model 920 that was claimed to work on all types of records, but I have not seen one of these to tell if it is similar to the NS or otherwise how it works. Greg Bogantz - Original Message - From: Arvin Casas aca...@spamcop.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 4:27 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 1927/ Viva Tonal Columbia Felt Colors Based on what I see in mine (and its cruder ancestor in my Grafonola 75, 1915), the auto stop is a mechanism that works in conjunction with the motor via levers - a la the brake/stop/start underneath or above the motor board. It is completely outside the sound reproducing system. It should not have any connection to / intrusion upon anything from the horn all the way to the sound box, so it shouldn't contribute to leaks. Very odd. What model is yours Jim? (btw There's a nice 2-page ad on eBay right now that has photos of the 1927 models, mine is the lowest end and is only mentioned parenthetically, haha.) I agree that for Columbia to omit this in the higher end models (especially if they went to the effort of using velveteen) is surprising. Do you see anything under the platter that might suggest there might once have been an auto stop? On 1/9/13 1:13 AM, Jim Cartwright jim...@earthlink.net wrote: My large Viva-tonal (cabinet larger than Orthophonic Credenza, partially because doors slide into sides of cabinet)has green velveteen on the turntable. After the local repairman sealed the horn rebuilt the soundbox it sounds splendid even on late 1930s recordings such as Beecham conducting Mozart's Symphony in E-flat with the London Philharmonic. My only regret is that it lacks the marvelous non-set automatic stop that would cut off at the end of any record. A surprising lack in this next to top of the line model. Might this have been because it would introduce air leaks? -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Arvin Casas Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 9:03 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 1927/ Viva Tonal Columbia Felt Colors Thanks for the helpful info everyone! (Apologies for the late reply but I only subscribe to the digest.) I contacted the youtube poster of the videos that DanKj linked to and posted on the phonoland board where I'm also a member. Based on the responses from all three sources, it's Green-land for me! :) I found one tiny oil stained mini-bumper in the cabinet late last night, once green, so that confirms everyone's input. I ordered a Victor sized green felt replacement from Walt @ Gettysburg and will trim it down to size. I have leftovers from a botched turntable job on a Grafonola I restored a few months ago which I'll use for bumpers. Ron - Interesting about the velvet. Apparently they used felt early on, as in my case, but by the 700 800 series Columbia had models with velvet (I learned this via phonoland.) Does the velvet help make the records sound smoother? (Just kidding, though perhaps there's an audiophile who might ardently argue that.) Thanks again all. On 1/7/13 9:52 PM, Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu wrote: My Vivatonals both have what looks like green velvet on the turntables. Bumpers look like green felt. Ron L On 1/8/13 2:51 AM, DanKj ediso...@verizon.net wrote: There's a 602 on YooToob, TT felt visible: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL4n1HyTfq4 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] N reproducers on standard E's BORING MATERIAL ALERT
Model E standards: Trowel N late dome top 47395 standard E 797924 Round weight N 33030 is on Standard E 795363 Round weight N 36087 on Standard E 794228 Trowel N 46911 on Standard E 800257 early dome top Trowel N 46795 on Standard E 803033 early dome top Round wt N 47182 on Standard E 801133 late dome top Trowel N 47875 on Standard E 800786 Trowel N 49430 on Standard E 804395 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=130819037288 If anyone wants to add to my list let me know. N tops: Flat, Natl phono, Tae,. sn 22000 to 41000 53000 to 55000 Dome early with recessed letters most in poor shape. 41000 to 49000 61000 to 63000 Late dome top 41000 to 74000 A1 to A350 Weights first to last: Round, trowel, bent 5 different types, N-56 with lift pillar. Most common round or bent. Least are the two trowels. Most common bent has the N on the weight and the pin holding the stylus bar. The N was made for the Standard E, Edison wanted to use the R. It was used on the Gem E, optional for the amberola 8 and 10. The N-56 was made because the regular N did not work on the 5 and 6, it was made for playing wax amberols in 1913, an obsolete reproducer for obsolete records which Edison continued to sell until the fire. No more new 2 minute titles were made after sept 1912 and many of the late records burned up. How often do you see a standard record box or an N-56? Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] 1927/ Viva Tonal Columbia Reproducers and Silvertone machines
Both of mine have the aluminum diaphragm reproducer introduced in '26. I have not spotted a number designation on them. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Steven Medved Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 4:51 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 1927/ Viva Tonal Columbia Reproducers and Silvertone machines Hello Columbia Viva Tonal owners, What reproducer is found on your machines? Is it the Columbia 15A type? Any Silvertone owners of orthophonic machines out there? Does anyone have the Silvertone machines sold by Sears in 1927 that look like Victors with different names including the Kenmore? For those who want so see what I am talking about I can send a huge file off list. This huge file was made by someone else who made copies from the original catalog. I believe Wayne made it, what a wonderful catalog for those who cannot remember 1927 Sears phonographs. Steve Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 16:27:25 -0500 From: aca...@spamcop.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 1927/ Viva Tonal Columbia Felt Colors Based on what I see in mine (and its cruder ancestor in my Grafonola 75, 1915), the auto stop is a mechanism that works in conjunction with the motor via levers - a la the brake/stop/start underneath or above the motor board. It is completely outside the sound reproducing system. It should not have any connection to / intrusion upon anything from the horn all the way to the sound box, so it shouldn't contribute to leaks. Very odd. What model is yours Jim? (btw There's a nice 2-page ad on eBay right now that has photos of the 1927 models, mine is the lowest end and is only mentioned parenthetically, haha.) I agree that for Columbia to omit this in the higher end models (especially if they went to the effort of using velveteen) is surprising. Do you see anything under the platter that might suggest there might once have been an auto stop? On 1/9/13 1:13 AM, Jim Cartwright jim...@earthlink.net wrote: My large Viva-tonal (cabinet larger than Orthophonic Credenza, partially because doors slide into sides of cabinet)has green velveteen on the turntable. After the local repairman sealed the horn rebuilt the soundbox it sounds splendid even on late 1930s recordings such as Beecham conducting Mozart's Symphony in E-flat with the London Philharmonic. My only regret is that it lacks the marvelous non-set automatic stop that would cut off at the end of any record. A surprising lack in this next to top of the line model. Might this have been because it would introduce air leaks? -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Arvin Casas Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 9:03 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 1927/ Viva Tonal Columbia Felt Colors Thanks for the helpful info everyone! (Apologies for the late reply but I only subscribe to the digest.) I contacted the youtube poster of the videos that DanKj linked to and posted on the phonoland board where I'm also a member. Based on the responses from all three sources, it's Green-land for me! :) I found one tiny oil stained mini-bumper in the cabinet late last night, once green, so that confirms everyone's input. I ordered a Victor sized green felt replacement from Walt @ Gettysburg and will trim it down to size. I have leftovers from a botched turntable job on a Grafonola I restored a few months ago which I'll use for bumpers. Ron - Interesting about the velvet. Apparently they used felt early on, as in my case, but by the 700 800 series Columbia had models with velvet (I learned this via phonoland.) Does the velvet help make the records sound smoother? (Just kidding, though perhaps there's an audiophile who might ardently argue that.) Thanks again all. On 1/7/13 9:52 PM, Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu wrote: My Vivatonals both have what looks like green velvet on the turntables. Bumpers look like green felt. Ron L On 1/8/13 2:51 AM, DanKj ediso...@verizon.net wrote: There's a 602 on YooToob, TT felt visible: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL4n1HyTfq4 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] 1927/ Viva Tonal Columbia Reproducers and Silvertonemachines
I have models 611, 613, and 810. They all have the same #15 reproducer. Greg Bogantz - Original Message - From: Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu To: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 9:24 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 1927/ Viva Tonal Columbia Reproducers and Silvertonemachines Both of mine have the aluminum diaphragm reproducer introduced in '26. I have not spotted a number designation on them. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Steven Medved Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 4:51 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 1927/ Viva Tonal Columbia Reproducers and Silvertone machines Hello Columbia Viva Tonal owners, What reproducer is found on your machines? Is it the Columbia 15A type? Any Silvertone owners of orthophonic machines out there? Does anyone have the Silvertone machines sold by Sears in 1927 that look like Victors with different names including the Kenmore? For those who want so see what I am talking about I can send a huge file off list. This huge file was made by someone else who made copies from the original catalog. I believe Wayne made it, what a wonderful catalog for those who cannot remember 1927 Sears phonographs. Steve Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 16:27:25 -0500 From: aca...@spamcop.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 1927/ Viva Tonal Columbia Felt Colors Based on what I see in mine (and its cruder ancestor in my Grafonola 75, 1915), the auto stop is a mechanism that works in conjunction with the motor via levers - a la the brake/stop/start underneath or above the motor board. It is completely outside the sound reproducing system. It should not have any connection to / intrusion upon anything from the horn all the way to the sound box, so it shouldn't contribute to leaks. Very odd. What model is yours Jim? (btw There's a nice 2-page ad on eBay right now that has photos of the 1927 models, mine is the lowest end and is only mentioned parenthetically, haha.) I agree that for Columbia to omit this in the higher end models (especially if they went to the effort of using velveteen) is surprising. Do you see anything under the platter that might suggest there might once have been an auto stop? On 1/9/13 1:13 AM, Jim Cartwright jim...@earthlink.net wrote: My large Viva-tonal (cabinet larger than Orthophonic Credenza, partially because doors slide into sides of cabinet)has green velveteen on the turntable. After the local repairman sealed the horn rebuilt the soundbox it sounds splendid even on late 1930s recordings such as Beecham conducting Mozart's Symphony in E-flat with the London Philharmonic. My only regret is that it lacks the marvelous non-set automatic stop that would cut off at the end of any record. A surprising lack in this next to top of the line model. Might this have been because it would introduce air leaks? -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Arvin Casas Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 9:03 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 1927/ Viva Tonal Columbia Felt Colors Thanks for the helpful info everyone! (Apologies for the late reply but I only subscribe to the digest.) I contacted the youtube poster of the videos that DanKj linked to and posted on the phonoland board where I'm also a member. Based on the responses from all three sources, it's Green-land for me! :) I found one tiny oil stained mini-bumper in the cabinet late last night, once green, so that confirms everyone's input. I ordered a Victor sized green felt replacement from Walt @ Gettysburg and will trim it down to size. I have leftovers from a botched turntable job on a Grafonola I restored a few months ago which I'll use for bumpers. Ron - Interesting about the velvet. Apparently they used felt early on, as in my case, but by the 700 800 series Columbia had models with velvet (I learned this via phonoland.) Does the velvet help make the records sound smoother? (Just kidding, though perhaps there's an audiophile who might ardently argue that.) Thanks again all. On 1/7/13 9:52 PM, Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu wrote: My Vivatonals both have what looks like green velvet on the turntables. Bumpers look like green felt. Ron L On 1/8/13 2:51 AM, DanKj ediso...@verizon.net wrote: There's a 602 on YooToob, TT felt visible: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL4n1HyTfq4 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] [phonolist] N reproducers on standard E's BORING MATERIAL ALERT
Hi Steve, I loved the Boring material Alert! Ok, while this won't make the New York Times, it is invaluable to the collector and we owe you a big THANKS for all the work you have done in this area. Are you going to publish a booklet some day??? -Scott Denise Corbett From: phonol...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:phonol...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steven Medved Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 6:06 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org; phonol...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [phonolist] N reproducers on standard E's BORING MATERIAL ALERT Model E standards: Trowel N late dome top 47395 standard E 797924 Round weight N 33030 is on Standard E 795363 Round weight N 36087 on Standard E 794228 Trowel N 46911 on Standard E 800257 early dome top Trowel N 46795 on Standard E 803033 early dome top Round wt N 47182 on Standard E 801133 late dome top Trowel N 47875 on Standard E 800786 Trowel N 49430 on Standard E 804395 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=130819037288 item=130819037288 If anyone wants to add to my list let me know. N tops: Flat, Natl phono, Tae,. sn 22000 to 41000 53000 to 55000 Dome early with recessed letters most in poor shape. 41000 to 49000 61000 to 63000 Late dome top 41000 to 74000 A1 to A350 Weights first to last: Round, trowel, bent 5 different types, N-56 with lift pillar. Most common round or bent. Least are the two trowels. Most common bent has the N on the weight and the pin holding the stylus bar. The N was made for the Standard E, Edison wanted to use the R. It was used on the Gem E, optional for the amberola 8 and 10. The N-56 was made because the regular N did not work on the 5 and 6, it was made for playing wax amberols in 1913, an obsolete reproducer for obsolete records which Edison continued to sell until the fire. No more new 2 minute titles were made after sept 1912 and many of the late records burned up. How often do you see a standard record box or an N-56? Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __._,_.___ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/phonolist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxdGc1OXZkBF9TAzk3M zU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMjEzMTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjgyBG1zZ0lkAzM5MzIxBHNlYwNmd HIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTM1Nzc4MzU1OQ--?act=replymessageNum=39321 Reply via web post mailto:steve_nor...@msn.com?subject=Re%3A%20N%20reproducers%20on%20standard %20E%27s%20%20BORING%20MATERIAL%20ALERT Reply to sender mailto:phonol...@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20N%20reproducers%20on%20sta ndard%20E%27s%20%20BORING%20MATERIAL%20ALERT Reply to group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/phonolist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYTcwMjExBF9TAzk3M zU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMjEzMTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjgyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc 3RpbWUDMTM1Nzc4MzU1OQ-- Start a New Topic http://groups.yahoo.com/group/phonolist/message/39321;_ylc=X3oDMTM2OTJjZDZl BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMjEzMTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjgyBG1zZ0lkAzM5MzIx BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTM1Nzc4MzU1OQR0cGNJZAMzOTMyMQ-- Messages in this topic (1) Recent Activity: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/phonolist;_ylc=X3oDMTJlNGMydmkxBF9TAzk3MzU5Nz E0BGdycElkAzEyMjEzMTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjgyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbW UDMTM1Nzc4MzU1OQ-- Visit Your Group http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkdW1tMzR1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyM jEzMTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYyMjgyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMzU3NzgzNTU5 Image removed by sender. Yahoo! Groups Switch to: mailto:phonolist-traditio...@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change%20Delivery%20Fo rmat:%20Traditional Text-Only, mailto:phonolist-dig...@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email%20Delivery:%20Digest Daily Digest . mailto:phonolist-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe Unsubscribe . http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Terms of Use . mailto:ygroupsnotificati...@yahoogroups.com?subject=Feedback%20on%20the%20r edesigned%20individual%20mail%20v1 Send us Feedback . Image removed by sender. __,_._,___ -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 359 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/attachments/20130109/a7e81b00/attachment.jpe -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 332 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/attachments/20130109/a7e81b00/attachment-0001.jpe ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] 1927/ Viva Tonal Columbia Felt Colors
Interesting. Makes me wonder about the authenticity of my 602 as it does have the auto stop (unless I'm misunderstanding the NS feature Greg is talking about). I've yet to pop the motor board off, but so far everything looks Columbia (from needle cups, to hinge hardware to tonearm reproducer) How does one know if one has the non-set? (Newbie question, so please forgive me.*) As for the auto stop on my Grafonola 75 (or 85 - the storage system differentiating the models was missing, but I'm rebuilding one), that has never really worked as it stops two or three times per record when engaged via the motor plate switch. Perhaps mine isn't calibrated correctly or, as Greg mentions, it's just too difficult to maintain (for service as well as consumer). *I finally tracked down the Baumbach book (I had to order from Amazon UK, shipped from New York!) so hopefully after it flies all over the Atlantic, I'll have more info - if it's there at all! - and less newbie questions. :-) On 1/9/13 6:38 PM, Greg Bogantz gbogan...@charter.net wrote: I have the models 611, 613, and 810 which do not have the non-set (NS) auto stop feature, and I have never seen any of the VivaTonal models that included the NS feature. Checking the Baumbach book Columbia Phonograph Companion, Vol II I see that the NS feature seems to have begun with the new line of machines introduced in 1918 and continued thru the New Columbia series from 1924 to 1926. But it seems to have been dropped in the later VivaTonal and electric series of machines. The NS feature was somewhat complicated and may have proven difficult to maintain which may have been the reason that Columbia omitted it in their later models. They used an improved auto-stop feature in the electronic model 920 that was claimed to work on all types of records, but I have not seen one of these to tell if it is similar to the NS or otherwise how it works. Greg Bogantz - Original Message - From: Arvin Casas aca...@spamcop.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 4:27 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 1927/ Viva Tonal Columbia Felt Colors Based on what I see in mine (and its cruder ancestor in my Grafonola 75, 1915), the auto stop is a mechanism that works in conjunction with the motor via levers - a la the brake/stop/start underneath or above the motor board. It is completely outside the sound reproducing system. It should not have any connection to / intrusion upon anything from the horn all the way to the sound box, so it shouldn't contribute to leaks. Very odd. What model is yours Jim? (btw There's a nice 2-page ad on eBay right now that has photos of the 1927 models, mine is the lowest end and is only mentioned parenthetically, haha.) I agree that for Columbia to omit this in the higher end models (especially if they went to the effort of using velveteen) is surprising. Do you see anything under the platter that might suggest there might once have been an auto stop? On 1/9/13 1:13 AM, Jim Cartwright jim...@earthlink.net wrote: My large Viva-tonal (cabinet larger than Orthophonic Credenza, partially because doors slide into sides of cabinet)has green velveteen on the turntable. After the local repairman sealed the horn rebuilt the soundbox it sounds splendid even on late 1930s recordings such as Beecham conducting Mozart's Symphony in E-flat with the London Philharmonic. My only regret is that it lacks the marvelous non-set automatic stop that would cut off at the end of any record. A surprising lack in this next to top of the line model. Might this have been because it would introduce air leaks? -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Arvin Casas Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 9:03 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 1927/ Viva Tonal Columbia Felt Colors Thanks for the helpful info everyone! (Apologies for the late reply but I only subscribe to the digest.) I contacted the youtube poster of the videos that DanKj linked to and posted on the phonoland board where I'm also a member. Based on the responses from all three sources, it's Green-land for me! :) I found one tiny oil stained mini-bumper in the cabinet late last night, once green, so that confirms everyone's input. I ordered a Victor sized green felt replacement from Walt @ Gettysburg and will trim it down to size. I have leftovers from a botched turntable job on a Grafonola I restored a few months ago which I'll use for bumpers. Ron - Interesting about the velvet. Apparently they used felt early on, as in my case, but by the 700 800 series Columbia had models with velvet (I learned this via phonoland.) Does the velvet help make the records sound smoother? (Just kidding, though perhaps there's an audiophile who might ardently argue that.) Thanks again all. On 1/7/13 9:52 PM, Ron L'Herault
Re: [Phono-L] 1927/ Viva Tonal Columbia Felt Colors
The non-set auto stop (NS) feature was unique to Columbia machines. As the name suggests, it did not require that the user set or adjust the stopping diameter which was required of other positional or proximity trip mechanisms. Earlier stop mechanisms required the user to set the needle in the last groove of the record and adjust the stop mechanism to trip at that diameter. Because early acoustic records had no lead-out groove or standardized lockout diameter (as became standard in post WWII records), automatic stop mechanisms could not be easily and universally implemented. The groove on early acoustic records simply ended (usually in a locked groove - Edison DDs did not use a locked groove) whenever the music was finished, regardless of what diameter on the record that was. Victor was the first to use the eccentric or reciprocating lockout groove which activated the stop when the tonearm was moved outward by the eccentric groove. Victor began using this feature in their late acoustic records. The Columbia NS stop feature was clever, but a bit complicated. It was the inverse of what became pretty standard in postwar record players that sensed the speed or velocity of the tonearm's rapid inward travel in the leadout groove of those records that had such a groove. Such modern mechanisms are known as the velocity trip type. The Columbia NS trip sensed the absence of velocity - that is, it sensed wen the tonearm stopped moving inward when the needle was in the final locked groove of the record. And it did not matter what that ending diameter was - the sensing was automatic and required no user intervention, hence, the non-set naming of this mechanism. This is a tricky thing to implement in purely mechanical means (try to imagine how you would do it) which is why the NS system was complicated. But these NS systems are unique and interesting to demonstrate when they work properly. Greg Bogantz - Original Message - From: Arvin Casas aca...@spamcop.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 10:47 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 1927/ Viva Tonal Columbia Felt Colors Interesting. Makes me wonder about the authenticity of my 602 as it does have the auto stop (unless I'm misunderstanding the NS feature Greg is talking about). I've yet to pop the motor board off, but so far everything looks Columbia (from needle cups, to hinge hardware to tonearm reproducer) How does one know if one has the non-set? (Newbie question, so please forgive me.*) As for the auto stop on my Grafonola 75 (or 85 - the storage system differentiating the models was missing, but I'm rebuilding one), that has never really worked as it stops two or three times per record when engaged via the motor plate switch. Perhaps mine isn't calibrated correctly or, as Greg mentions, it's just too difficult to maintain (for service as well as consumer). *I finally tracked down the Baumbach book (I had to order from Amazon UK, shipped from New York!) so hopefully after it flies all over the Atlantic, I'll have more info - if it's there at all! - and less newbie questions. :-) On 1/9/13 6:38 PM, Greg Bogantz gbogan...@charter.net wrote: I have the models 611, 613, and 810 which do not have the non-set (NS) auto stop feature, and I have never seen any of the VivaTonal models that included the NS feature. Checking the Baumbach book Columbia Phonograph Companion, Vol II I see that the NS feature seems to have begun with the new line of machines introduced in 1918 and continued thru the New Columbia series from 1924 to 1926. But it seems to have been dropped in the later VivaTonal and electric series of machines. The NS feature was somewhat complicated and may have proven difficult to maintain which may have been the reason that Columbia omitted it in their later models. They used an improved auto-stop feature in the electronic model 920 that was claimed to work on all types of records, but I have not seen one of these to tell if it is similar to the NS or otherwise how it works. Greg Bogantz - Original Message - From: Arvin Casas aca...@spamcop.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 4:27 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 1927/ Viva Tonal Columbia Felt Colors Based on what I see in mine (and its cruder ancestor in my Grafonola 75, 1915), the auto stop is a mechanism that works in conjunction with the motor via levers - a la the brake/stop/start underneath or above the motor board. It is completely outside the sound reproducing system. It should not have any connection to / intrusion upon anything from the horn all the way to the sound box, so it shouldn't contribute to leaks. Very odd. What model is yours Jim? (btw There's a nice 2-page ad on eBay right now that has photos of the 1927 models, mine is the lowest end and is only mentioned parenthetically, haha.) I agree that for Columbia to
Re: [Phono-L] 1927/ Viva Tonal Columbia Reproducers and Silvertone machines
Mine is aluminum as well with the cover grill in the same pattern as I've seen on restored Viva-T's. How does one ID Columbia reproducers? I know the older No 6 has it stamped on back, but what about the others, mica and aluminum? (Another newbie question - please bear with me until I get the book!) On 1/9/13 9:24 PM, Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu wrote: Both of mine have the aluminum diaphragm reproducer introduced in '26. I have not spotted a number designation on them. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Steven Medved Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 4:51 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 1927/ Viva Tonal Columbia Reproducers and Silvertone machines Hello Columbia Viva Tonal owners, What reproducer is found on your machines? Is it the Columbia 15A type? Any Silvertone owners of orthophonic machines out there? Does anyone have the Silvertone machines sold by Sears in 1927 that look like Victors with different names including the Kenmore? For those who want so see what I am talking about I can send a huge file off list. This huge file was made by someone else who made copies from the original catalog. I believe Wayne made it, what a wonderful catalog for those who cannot remember 1927 Sears phonographs. Steve Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 16:27:25 -0500 From: aca...@spamcop.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 1927/ Viva Tonal Columbia Felt Colors Based on what I see in mine (and its cruder ancestor in my Grafonola 75, 1915), the auto stop is a mechanism that works in conjunction with the motor via levers - a la the brake/stop/start underneath or above the motor board. It is completely outside the sound reproducing system. It should not have any connection to / intrusion upon anything from the horn all the way to the sound box, so it shouldn't contribute to leaks. Very odd. What model is yours Jim? (btw There's a nice 2-page ad on eBay right now that has photos of the 1927 models, mine is the lowest end and is only mentioned parenthetically, haha.) I agree that for Columbia to omit this in the higher end models (especially if they went to the effort of using velveteen) is surprising. Do you see anything under the platter that might suggest there might once have been an auto stop? On 1/9/13 1:13 AM, Jim Cartwright jim...@earthlink.net wrote: My large Viva-tonal (cabinet larger than Orthophonic Credenza, partially because doors slide into sides of cabinet)has green velveteen on the turntable. After the local repairman sealed the horn rebuilt the soundbox it sounds splendid even on late 1930s recordings such as Beecham conducting Mozart's Symphony in E-flat with the London Philharmonic. My only regret is that it lacks the marvelous non-set automatic stop that would cut off at the end of any record. A surprising lack in this next to top of the line model. Might this have been because it would introduce air leaks? -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Arvin Casas Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 9:03 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 1927/ Viva Tonal Columbia Felt Colors Thanks for the helpful info everyone! (Apologies for the late reply but I only subscribe to the digest.) I contacted the youtube poster of the videos that DanKj linked to and posted on the phonoland board where I'm also a member. Based on the responses from all three sources, it's Green-land for me! :) I found one tiny oil stained mini-bumper in the cabinet late last night, once green, so that confirms everyone's input. I ordered a Victor sized green felt replacement from Walt @ Gettysburg and will trim it down to size. I have leftovers from a botched turntable job on a Grafonola I restored a few months ago which I'll use for bumpers. Ron - Interesting about the velvet. Apparently they used felt early on, as in my case, but by the 700 800 series Columbia had models with velvet (I learned this via phonoland.) Does the velvet help make the records sound smoother? (Just kidding, though perhaps there's an audiophile who might ardently argue that.) Thanks again all. On 1/7/13 9:52 PM, Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu wrote: My Vivatonals both have what looks like green velvet on the turntables. Bumpers look like green felt. Ron L On 1/8/13 2:51 AM, DanKj ediso...@verizon.net wrote: There's a 602 on YooToob, TT felt visible: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL4n1HyTfq4 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
