[Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair
Does anyone on this list know the specifications for the diamond point for the Edison diamond disk reproducers? Is this something that a jeweler could set? I have heard some pretty high prices for stylus bar repairs and was just wondering if a repair could be done at a local jeweler. Thanks, Ken Brekke ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair
A new one is $80 to $100 on a new stylus bar, last time I checked - might have gone up a little since then. You can probably get one from Ron Sitko. If a jeweler could set one it would probably cost that much or more and if your diamond fell out and you have it, it may have been damaged... Curt From: kb...@charter.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 15:17:50 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair Does anyone on this list know the specifications for the diamond point for the Edison diamond disk reproducers? Is this something that a jeweler could set? I have heard some pretty high prices for stylus bar repairs and was just wondering if a repair could be done at a local jeweler. Thanks, Ken Brekke ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair
Curt, Thanks for the response. I saw those kind of prices out there. I was considering checking with a local jeweler if I could find the specifications of the actual diamond point. The repair cost seems rather high in comparison of the whole reproducer. Thanks, Ken B. -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Vinyl Visions Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 4:22 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair A new one is $80 to $100 on a new stylus bar, last time I checked - might have gone up a little since then. You can probably get one from Ron Sitko. If a jeweler could set one it would probably cost that much or more and if your diamond fell out and you have it, it may have been damaged... Curt From: kb...@charter.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 15:17:50 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair Does anyone on this list know the specifications for the diamond point for the Edison diamond disk reproducers? Is this something that a jeweler could set? I have heard some pretty high prices for stylus bar repairs and was just wondering if a repair could be done at a local jeweler. Thanks, Ken Brekke ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair
I went through that whole thing with a DD player I had. I actually thought it would be better to buy an entire reproducer, because of the cost... but I bought it on eBay - it had a diamond, but it was bad - it played, but tore up records. It took buying three to get one decent one. There is no way to determine if an eBay seller actually knows if they are good or bad - some might, but more than likely, you will get one that someone else had trouble with. Buy one from a reputable phono guy like George Vollema in Michigan or Ron Sitko, its worth it. Even if you buy the stylus mounted on a needle bar - those reproducers are a pain to rebuild, especially removing and replacing the needle bar and trying not to break the little string that connects it... It takes a punch the size of a blunt needle to remove the pin, which is also rounded on the end and since they have been in there almost 100 yrs., they can be very aggravating. All in all, if you don't need more stress in your life, buy a rebuilt one from someone who knows how to do it - a jeweler most likely will not. Curt From: kb...@charter.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 18:19:58 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair Curt, Thanks for the response. I saw those kind of prices out there. I was considering checking with a local jeweler if I could find the specifications of the actual diamond point. The repair cost seems rather high in comparison of the whole reproducer. Thanks, Ken B. -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Vinyl Visions Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 4:22 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair A new one is $80 to $100 on a new stylus bar, last time I checked - might have gone up a little since then. You can probably get one from Ron Sitko. If a jeweler could set one it would probably cost that much or more and if your diamond fell out and you have it, it may have been damaged... Curt From: kb...@charter.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 15:17:50 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair Does anyone on this list know the specifications for the diamond point for the Edison diamond disk reproducers? Is this something that a jeweler could set? I have heard some pretty high prices for stylus bar repairs and was just wondering if a repair could be done at a local jeweler. Thanks, Ken Brekke ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair
If you buy a reproducer you can count on the diamond being bad, 2 and only 2 of the Diamond ABC reproducers I have rebuilt have had good diamonds, the rest were worn or damaged. I purchased an Edisonic on eBay with a good diamond and recently I did a Dance and and Edisonic for a man and both diamonds were good. This is the exception rather than the rule. People think diamonds are indestructible but I NEVER play any DD record with surface damage and I lower my stylus in the starting groove then I spin up the record, and I stop the record before I raise the reproducer. When used as a stylus diamonds in DD reproducers are weak and must be carefully shielded from damage: Toughness Toughness relates to a material's ability to resist breakage from forceful impact. The toughness of natural diamond has been measured as 3.4 MN m-3/2,[10] which is good compared to other gemstones, but poor compared to most engineering materials. As with any material, the macroscopic geometry of a diamond contributes to its resistance to breakage. Diamond is therefore more fragile in some orientations than others. According to Edison Diamond Disc Re-Creations records artists 1910-1929 page 107: In this process the diamonds were first silver plated, then mounted on rods with paraffin, plated for 72 hours with nickel layers electro deposited under tension. The styli were thus held under layers of nickel at thousands of pounds of pressure. The nickel-encased diamonds were then polished to conical shape, the nickel at the stylus point being found away as the diamond was polished. The finished stylus was then soldered into its stylus bar. In the early days, bare diamonds were just soldered into bars and were prone to breakage when carelessly lowered onto the record. The original DD styli were soldered in, Edison stopped this practice when it was noted that such diamonds were prone to damage when carelessly lowered onto records. The earliest bars have the bare diamond soldered in; the later ones were first plated with nickel and then soldered in. To understand this think of a wooden pencil the diamond is the lead. When the pencil is sharpened the wood is removed and the lead is shaped, the wood is the nickel and the lead is the diamond. From: vinyl.visi...@live.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 21:18:09 -0400 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair I went through that whole thing with a DD player I had. I actually thought it would be better to buy an entire reproducer, because of the cost... but I bought it on eBay - it had a diamond, but it was bad - it played, but tore up records. It took buying three to get one decent one. There is no way to determine if an eBay seller actually knows if they are good or bad - some might, but more than likely, you will get one that someone else had trouble with. Buy one from a reputable phono guy like George Vollema in Michigan or Ron Sitko, its worth it. Even if you buy the stylus mounted on a needle bar - those reproducers are a pain to rebuild, especially removing and replacing the needle bar and trying not to break the little string that connects it... It takes a punch the size of a blunt needle to remove the pin, which is also rounded on the end and since they have been in there almost 100 yrs., they can be very aggravating. All in all, if you don't need more stress in your life, buy a rebuilt one from someone who knows how to do it - a jeweler most likely will not. Curt From: kb...@charter.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 18:19:58 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair Curt, Thanks for the response. I saw those kind of prices out there. I was considering checking with a local jeweler if I could find the specifications of the actual diamond point. The repair cost seems rather high in comparison of the whole reproducer. Thanks, Ken B. -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Vinyl Visions Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 4:22 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair A new one is $80 to $100 on a new stylus bar, last time I checked - might have gone up a little since then. You can probably get one from Ron Sitko. If a jeweler could set one it would probably cost that much or more and if your diamond fell out and you have it, it may have been damaged... Curt From: kb...@charter.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 15:17:50 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair Does anyone on this list know the specifications for the diamond point for the Edison diamond disk reproducers? Is this something that a jeweler could set? I have heard some pretty high prices for stylus bar repairs and was just wondering
Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair
For those that have not noticed it being done. The standard dealer test of the condition of the DD diamond stylus is to run their dirty thumb over it and if it feels like there is a point on it they pronounce it good. So, plan on buying a replacement bar or trashing the records. If you happen to have a good microscope you can inspect the point yourself for condition as it is a rounded end conical shape and is symmetric with no flat spots. On 03/19/2011 09:10 PM, Steven Medved wrote: If you buy a reproducer you can count on the diamond being bad, 2 and only 2 of the Diamond ABC reproducers I have rebuilt have had good diamonds, the rest were worn or damaged. I purchased an Edisonic on eBay with a good diamond and recently I did a Dance and and Edisonic for a man and both diamonds were good. This is the exception rather than the rule. People think diamonds are indestructible but I NEVER play any DD record with surface damage and I lower my stylus in the starting groove then I spin up the record, and I stop the record before I raise the reproducer. When used as a stylus diamonds in DD reproducers are weak and must be carefully shielded from damage: Toughness Toughness relates to a material's ability to resist breakage from forceful impact. The toughness of natural diamond has been measured as 3.4 MN m-3/2,[10] which is good compared to other gemstones, but poor compared to most engineering materials. As with any material, the macroscopic geometry of a diamond contributes to its resistance to breakage. Diamond is therefore more fragile in some orientations than others. According to Edison Diamond Disc Re-Creations records artists 1910-1929 page 107: In this process the diamonds were first silver plated, then mounted on rods with paraffin, plated for 72 hours with nickel layers electro deposited under tension. The styli were thus held under layers of nickel at thousands of pounds of pressure. The nickel-encased diamonds were then polished to conical shape, the nickel at the stylus point being found away as the diamond was polished. The finished stylus was then soldered into its stylus bar. In the early days, bare diamonds were just soldered into bars and were prone to breakage when carelessly lowered onto the record. The original DD styli were soldered in, Edison stopped this practice when it was noted that such diamonds were prone to damage when carelessly lowered onto records. The earliest bars have the bare diamond soldered in; the later ones were first plated with nickel and then soldered in. To understand this think of a wooden pencil the diamond is the lead. When the pencil is sharpened the wood is removed and the lead is shaped, the wood is the nickel and the lead is the diamond. From: vinyl.visi...@live.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 21:18:09 -0400 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair I went through that whole thing with a DD player I had. I actually thought it would be better to buy an entire reproducer, because of the cost... but I bought it on eBay - it had a diamond, but it was bad - it played, but tore up records. It took buying three to get one decent one. There is no way to determine if an eBay seller actually knows if they are good or bad - some might, but more than likely, you will get one that someone else had trouble with. Buy one from a reputable phono guy like George Vollema in Michigan or Ron Sitko, its worth it. Even if you buy the stylus mounted on a needle bar - those reproducers are a pain to rebuild, especially removing and replacing the needle bar and trying not to break the little string that connects it... It takes a punch the size of a blunt needle to remove the pin, which is also rounded on the end and since they have been in there almost 100 yrs., they can be very aggravating. All in all, if you don't need more stress in your life, buy a rebuilt one from someone who knows how to do it - a jeweler most likely will not. Curt From: kb...@charter.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 18:19:58 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair Curt, Thanks for the response. I saw those kind of prices out there. I was considering checking with a local jeweler if I could find the specifications of the actual diamond point. The repair cost seems rather high in comparison of the whole reproducer. Thanks, Ken B. -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Vinyl Visions Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 4:22 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair A new one is $80 to $100 on a new stylus bar, last time I checked - might have gone up a little since then. You can probably get one from Ron Sitko. If a jeweler could set one it would probably cost that much or more and if your diamond fell out and you have it, it may have been damaged... Curt From: kb
Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair
Another way to test is to run your finger nail over the point. If the point scratched the finger nail, the point is bad. Use light pressure. Harvey Kravitz From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sat, March 19, 2011 8:17:47 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair For those that have not noticed it being done. The standard dealer test of the condition of the DD diamond stylus is to run their dirty thumb over it and if it feels like there is a point on it they pronounce it good. So, plan on buying a replacement bar or trashing the records. If you happen to have a good microscope you can inspect the point yourself for condition as it is a rounded end conical shape and is symmetric with no flat spots. On 03/19/2011 09:10 PM, Steven Medved wrote: If you buy a reproducer you can count on the diamond being bad, 2 and only 2 of the Diamond ABC reproducers I have rebuilt have had good diamonds, the rest were worn or damaged. I purchased an Edisonic on eBay with a good diamond and recently I did a Dance and and Edisonic for a man and both diamonds were good. This is the exception rather than the rule. People think diamonds are indestructible but I NEVER play any DD record with surface damage and I lower my stylus in the starting groove then I spin up the record, and I stop the record before I raise the reproducer. When used as a stylus diamonds in DD reproducers are weak and must be carefully shielded from damage: Toughness Toughness relates to a material's ability to resist breakage from forceful impact. The toughness of natural diamond has been measured as 3.4 MN m-3/2,[10] which is good compared to other gemstones, but poor compared to most engineering materials. As with any material, the macroscopic geometry of a diamond contributes to its resistance to breakage. Diamond is therefore more fragile in some orientations than others. According to Edison Diamond Disc Re-Creations records artists 1910-1929 page 107: In this process the diamonds were first silver plated, then mounted on rods with paraffin, plated for 72 hours with nickel layers electro deposited under tension. The styli were thus held under layers of nickel at thousands of pounds of pressure. The nickel-encased diamonds were then polished to conical shape, the nickel at the stylus point being found away as the diamond was polished. The finished stylus was then soldered into its stylus bar. In the early days, bare diamonds were just soldered into bars and were prone to breakage when carelessly lowered onto the record. The original DD styli were soldered in, Edison stopped this practice when it was noted that such diamonds were prone to damage when carelessly lowered onto records. The earliest bars have the bare diamond soldered in; the later ones were first plated with nickel and then soldered in. To understand this think of a wooden pencil the diamond is the lead. When the pencil is sharpened the wood is removed and the lead is shaped, the wood is the nickel and the lead is the diamond. From: vinyl.visi...@live.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 21:18:09 -0400 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair I went through that whole thing with a DD player I had. I actually thought it would be better to buy an entire reproducer, because of the cost... but I bought it on eBay - it had a diamond, but it was bad - it played, but tore up records. It took buying three to get one decent one. There is no way to determine if an eBay seller actually knows if they are good or bad - some might, but more than likely, you will get one that someone else had trouble with. Buy one from a reputable phono guy like George Vollema in Michigan or Ron Sitko, its worth it. Even if you buy the stylus mounted on a needle bar - those reproducers are a pain to rebuild, especially removing and replacing the needle bar and trying not to break the little string that connects it... It takes a punch the size of a blunt needle to remove the pin, which is also rounded on the end and since they have been in there almost 100 yrs., they can be very aggravating. All in all, if you don't need more stress in your life, buy a rebuilt one from someone who knows how to do it - a jeweler most likely will not. Curt From: kb...@charter.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 18:19:58 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair Curt, Thanks for the response. I saw those kind of prices out there. I was considering checking with a local jeweler if I could find the specifications of the actual diamond point. The repair cost seems rather high in comparison of the whole reproducer. Thanks, Ken B. -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Vinyl Visions Sent
Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair
.030 conical. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Ken and Brenda Brekke Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 4:18 PM To: 'Antique Phonograph List' Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair Does anyone on this list know the specifications for the diamond point for the Edison diamond disk reproducers? Is this something that a jeweler could set? I have heard some pretty high prices for stylus bar repairs and was just wondering if a repair could be done at a local jeweler. Thanks, Ken Brekke ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair
The easy test is to let the diamond run on a shiny area of run-out at the end of a record. If you see a scratched band, the diamond is worn/damaged. It is a good idea to test this on a couple of different disks because I had one DD that showed the line even with a new stylus and when no other record tested with that stylus showed a band. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Rich Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 11:18 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair For those that have not noticed it being done. The standard dealer test of the condition of the DD diamond stylus is to run their dirty thumb over it and if it feels like there is a point on it they pronounce it good. So, plan on buying a replacement bar or trashing the records. If you happen to have a good microscope you can inspect the point yourself for condition as it is a rounded end conical shape and is symmetric with no flat spots. On 03/19/2011 09:10 PM, Steven Medved wrote: If you buy a reproducer you can count on the diamond being bad, 2 and only 2 of the Diamond ABC reproducers I have rebuilt have had good diamonds, the rest were worn or damaged. I purchased an Edisonic on eBay with a good diamond and recently I did a Dance and and Edisonic for a man and both diamonds were good. This is the exception rather than the rule. People think diamonds are indestructible but I NEVER play any DD record with surface damage and I lower my stylus in the starting groove then I spin up the record, and I stop the record before I raise the reproducer. When used as a stylus diamonds in DD reproducers are weak and must be carefully shielded from damage: Toughness Toughness relates to a material's ability to resist breakage from forceful impact. The toughness of natural diamond has been measured as 3.4 MN m-3/2,[10] which is good compared to other gemstones, but poor compared to most engineering materials. As with any material, the macroscopic geometry of a diamond contributes to its resistance to breakage. Diamond is therefore more fragile in some orientations than others. According to Edison Diamond Disc Re-Creations records artists 1910-1929 page 107: In this process the diamonds were first silver plated, then mounted on rods with paraffin, plated for 72 hours with nickel layers electro deposited under tension. The styli were thus held under layers of nickel at thousands of pounds of pressure. The nickel-encased diamonds were then polished to conical shape, the nickel at the stylus point being found away as the diamond was polished. The finished stylus was then soldered into its stylus bar. In the early days, bare diamonds were just soldered into bars and were prone to breakage when carelessly lowered onto the record. The original DD styli were soldered in, Edison stopped this practice when it was noted that such diamonds were prone to damage when carelessly lowered onto records. The earliest bars have the bare diamond soldered in; the later ones were first plated with nickel and then soldered in. To understand this think of a wooden pencil the diamond is the lead. When the pencil is sharpened the wood is removed and the lead is shaped, the wood is the nickel and the lead is the diamond. From: vinyl.visi...@live.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 21:18:09 -0400 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair I went through that whole thing with a DD player I had. I actually thought it would be better to buy an entire reproducer, because of the cost... but I bought it on eBay - it had a diamond, but it was bad - it played, but tore up records. It took buying three to get one decent one. There is no way to determine if an eBay seller actually knows if they are good or bad - some might, but more than likely, you will get one that someone else had trouble with. Buy one from a reputable phono guy like George Vollema in Michigan or Ron Sitko, its worth it. Even if you buy the stylus mounted on a needle bar - those reproducers are a pain to rebuild, especially removing and replacing the needle bar and trying not to break the little string that connects it... It takes a punch the size of a blunt needle to remove the pin, which is also rounded on the end and since they have been in there almost 100 yrs., they can be very aggravating. All in all, if you don't need more stress in your life, buy a rebuilt one from someone who knows how to do it - a jeweler most likely will not. Curt From: kb...@charter.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 18:19:58 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disk stylus repair Curt, Thanks for the response. I saw those kind of prices out there. I was considering checking with a local jeweler if I could find the specifications of the actual diamond point. The repair cost seems rather high in comparison of the whole reproducer
