Re: [PHP-DEV] Scratching the 4.3 branch
I differ with you regarding whether we can or cannot tell people to pause development for a few weeks. Regardless, if we want to allow people to develop, I suggested using development branches (or branch), instead of using a release branch, for most of the duration of this release cycle. Given the fact that bug fixing is going to be much more popular than adding new features, it's the logical thing to do, IMHO. Zeev At 19:18 06/10/2002, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: I don't think we can just not provide some place for people to work on new code. We have way too many extensions in various states of development to just arbitrarily tell everyone to stop what they are doing. The ext/xslt work going on right now is a good example along with the image rotation functions for GD that are waiting in the wings. Whether the 4.3 branch was created too early or not is debatable, but a date was set to give people a kick in the ass and in that respect it worked pretty well. A lot of problems were fixed, or at least looked at in the last week. The answer may be to re-branch when we are ready for RC1. When the implicit_flush mess is resolved and Melvyn gives the thumbs up for the Sablotron stuff then I think we are ready for RC1. -Rasmus On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, Zeev Suraski wrote: I think we'd be better off waiting a bit with the php5 move. In general I just don't think we can push a successful release while we continue developing. If we concentrate on getting 4.3 out the door within a month, we can then concentrate on php5. Zeev At 13:33 06/10/2002, Derick Rethans wrote: On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, Sander Roobol wrote: On Sun, Oct 06, 2002 at 11:01:02AM +0200, Derick Rethans wrote: On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, Zeev Suraski wrote: I think that given the circumstances, we should scratch the 4.3 branch and stick to the main branch for this particular release, at least until we're very close to the release itself. The vast majority of CVS traffic going on these days is bug fixes anyway, so creating the branch only makes it more difficult to keep up - you have to keep the two branches in sync. Issuing a request for people not to develop new features for a couple of months (or telling them to develop in some -dev branch), will, in my opinion, work better than our conventional release process. I'm very worried about sync problems with 4.3. Maybe it's time to opening up the php5 module then... people would be able to work on experimental stuff there without messing up the stable module. It might be a psychological thing but I think it's appropriate here. +1 on removing the branch - to avoid problems with staying in sync with head -1 on the php5 module - it'll move the sync problems to another place I think it does solve things. When there is the php5 module for 'happy hacking', but without touching that's great for new functions, rewritten extensions etc.. while you can fix bugs on the stable, supported, php4 module. Synching when we start actively on php4 would be only needed for not-modified extensions in the php5 module. And perhaps once a month for the PHP core. THis will be much more maintainable than the little merges evry hour. regards, Derick -- --- Derick Rethans http://derickrethans.nl/ JDI Media Solutions --[ if you hold a unix shell to your ear, do you hear the c? ]- -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Scratching the 4.3 branch
On Sun, Oct 06, 2002 at 10:00:57AM -0400, Dan Kalowsky wrote : Here is an option though. Release RC1. We know it's buggy, we know it's got a lot of problems, and we know that we don't know them all. The stigma that snapshots are unstable isn't going to be changed in the next few days, so lets work with that. By releasing RC1 we can have (potentially) a larger test audience working on making the RC2 better as there seems to be less of a stigma against RCs. There is no real reason why we can't go through multiple RCs this time around... other than time. So lets take advantage of that. Given that we should not forget to add something to the BTS so we can clearly identify what bug is for RC1 and which not. -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Scratching the 4.3 branch
On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, Zeev Suraski wrote: I think that given the circumstances, we should scratch the 4.3 branch and stick to the main branch for this particular release, at least until we're very close to the release itself. The vast majority of CVS traffic going on these days is bug fixes anyway, so creating the branch only makes it more difficult to keep up - you have to keep the two branches in sync. Issuing a request for people not to develop new features for a couple of months (or telling them to develop in some -dev branch), will, in my opinion, work better than our conventional release process. I'm very worried about sync problems with 4.3. Maybe it's time to opening up the php5 module then... people would be able to work on experimental stuff there without messing up the stable module. It might be a psychological thing but I think it's appropriate here. regards, Derick -- --- Derick Rethans http://derickrethans.nl/ JDI Media Solutions --[ if you hold a unix shell to your ear, do you hear the c? ]- -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Scratching the 4.3 branch
+1 on removing the branch - to avoid problems with staying in sync with head -1 on the php5 module - it'll move the sync problems to another place Sander On Sun, Oct 06, 2002 at 11:01:02AM +0200, Derick Rethans wrote: On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, Zeev Suraski wrote: I think that given the circumstances, we should scratch the 4.3 branch and stick to the main branch for this particular release, at least until we're very close to the release itself. The vast majority of CVS traffic going on these days is bug fixes anyway, so creating the branch only makes it more difficult to keep up - you have to keep the two branches in sync. Issuing a request for people not to develop new features for a couple of months (or telling them to develop in some -dev branch), will, in my opinion, work better than our conventional release process. I'm very worried about sync problems with 4.3. Maybe it's time to opening up the php5 module then... people would be able to work on experimental stuff there without messing up the stable module. It might be a psychological thing but I think it's appropriate here. regards, Derick -- --- Derick Rethans http://derickrethans.nl/ JDI Media Solutions --[ if you hold a unix shell to your ear, do you hear the c? ]- -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Scratching the 4.3 branch
On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, Sander Roobol wrote: On Sun, Oct 06, 2002 at 11:01:02AM +0200, Derick Rethans wrote: On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, Zeev Suraski wrote: I think that given the circumstances, we should scratch the 4.3 branch and stick to the main branch for this particular release, at least until we're very close to the release itself. The vast majority of CVS traffic going on these days is bug fixes anyway, so creating the branch only makes it more difficult to keep up - you have to keep the two branches in sync. Issuing a request for people not to develop new features for a couple of months (or telling them to develop in some -dev branch), will, in my opinion, work better than our conventional release process. I'm very worried about sync problems with 4.3. Maybe it's time to opening up the php5 module then... people would be able to work on experimental stuff there without messing up the stable module. It might be a psychological thing but I think it's appropriate here. +1 on removing the branch - to avoid problems with staying in sync with head -1 on the php5 module - it'll move the sync problems to another place I think it does solve things. When there is the php5 module for 'happy hacking', but without touching that's great for new functions, rewritten extensions etc.. while you can fix bugs on the stable, supported, php4 module. Synching when we start actively on php4 would be only needed for not-modified extensions in the php5 module. And perhaps once a month for the PHP core. THis will be much more maintainable than the little merges evry hour. regards, Derick -- --- Derick Rethans http://derickrethans.nl/ JDI Media Solutions --[ if you hold a unix shell to your ear, do you hear the c? ]- -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Scratching the 4.3 branch
I think we'd be better off waiting a bit with the php5 move. In general I just don't think we can push a successful release while we continue developing. If we concentrate on getting 4.3 out the door within a month, we can then concentrate on php5. Zeev At 13:33 06/10/2002, Derick Rethans wrote: On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, Sander Roobol wrote: On Sun, Oct 06, 2002 at 11:01:02AM +0200, Derick Rethans wrote: On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, Zeev Suraski wrote: I think that given the circumstances, we should scratch the 4.3 branch and stick to the main branch for this particular release, at least until we're very close to the release itself. The vast majority of CVS traffic going on these days is bug fixes anyway, so creating the branch only makes it more difficult to keep up - you have to keep the two branches in sync. Issuing a request for people not to develop new features for a couple of months (or telling them to develop in some -dev branch), will, in my opinion, work better than our conventional release process. I'm very worried about sync problems with 4.3. Maybe it's time to opening up the php5 module then... people would be able to work on experimental stuff there without messing up the stable module. It might be a psychological thing but I think it's appropriate here. +1 on removing the branch - to avoid problems with staying in sync with head -1 on the php5 module - it'll move the sync problems to another place I think it does solve things. When there is the php5 module for 'happy hacking', but without touching that's great for new functions, rewritten extensions etc.. while you can fix bugs on the stable, supported, php4 module. Synching when we start actively on php4 would be only needed for not-modified extensions in the php5 module. And perhaps once a month for the PHP core. THis will be much more maintainable than the little merges evry hour. regards, Derick -- --- Derick Rethans http://derickrethans.nl/ JDI Media Solutions --[ if you hold a unix shell to your ear, do you hear the c? ]- -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Scratching the 4.3 branch
On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, Zeev Suraski wrote: I think we'd be better off waiting a bit with the php5 move. In general I just don't think we can push a successful release while we continue developing. If we concentrate on getting 4.3 out the door within a month, we can then concentrate on php5. That would only work if people are not adding new features for some time, I don't know if that's feasible. Derick -- --- Derick Rethans http://derickrethans.nl/ JDI Media Solutions --[ if you hold a unix shell to your ear, do you hear the c? ]- -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Scratching the 4.3 branch
On Sunday 06 October 2002 10:54, Zeev Suraski wrote: I think that given the circumstances, we should scratch the 4.3 branch and stick to the main branch for this particular release, at least until we're very close to the release itself. The vast majority of CVS traffic going on these days is bug fixes anyway, so creating the branch only makes it more difficult to keep up - you have to keep the two branches in sync. Issuing a request for people not to develop new features for a couple of months (or telling them to develop in some -dev branch), will, in my opinion, work better than our conventional release process. I'm very worried about sync problems with 4.3. +1 I think the branch was created way too early. IMHO a release branch should be created at the point where RC1 is ready, 2-3 weeks before the actual release. Edin -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Scratching the 4.3 branch
Since for some reason I didn't get Zeev's original message, I'll just hack in responses here... :) On Sunday, October 6, 2002, at 05:01 AM, Derick Rethans wrote: On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, Zeev Suraski wrote: I think that given the circumstances, we should scratch the 4.3 branch and stick to the main branch for this particular release, at least until we're very close to the release itself. The vast majority of CVS traffic going on these days is bug fixes anyway, so creating the branch only makes it more difficult to keep up - you have to keep the two branches in sync. Two options I see here. Close down CVS HEAD development, and force everyone to work on the branch, or ditch the branch. I don't know how feasible option 1 is. Option 2 is extremely easy to do. The problem though isn't the keeping in sync part. It's the working to clean up bugs, verifying code and functionality parts. Neither option here will deal with that. Maybe it's time to opening up the php5 module then... people would be able to work on experimental stuff there without messing up the stable module. It might be a psychological thing but I think it's appropriate here. I disagree with you on this one Derick. Doing this really just skirts the problem around, and doesn't address it until a later date. Here is an option though. Release RC1. We know it's buggy, we know it's got a lot of problems, and we know that we don't know them all. The stigma that snapshots are unstable isn't going to be changed in the next few days, so lets work with that. By releasing RC1 we can have (potentially) a larger test audience working on making the RC2 better as there seems to be less of a stigma against RCs. There is no real reason why we can't go through multiple RCs this time around... other than time. So lets take advantage of that. --- Dan KalowskyA little less conversation, http://www.deadmime.org/~danka little more action. [EMAIL PROTECTED]- A Little Less Conversation, [EMAIL PROTECTED]Elvis Presley -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Scratching the 4.3 branch
Hi, whether to drop it/name it differently doesn't really fix anything. You need to sync at some point. I personally prefer to work on the branch, since that will get the attention of QA and RC processes and after release, merge everything into HEAD. But that would require, that HEAD remains virtually untouched and is probably not realistic. What's more important IMO, is what snapshot will be built from which branch? Is the 4.2 tree now officially dead? Ie - what do we tell the users? Related to that: if you fix something now, that also impacts 4.2 tree, should you merge it down, creating the situation where you maintain 3 trees. At 10:54 6-10-2002, Zeev Suraski wrote: I think that given the circumstances, we should scratch the 4.3 branch and stick to the main branch for this particular release, at least until we're very close to the release itself. The vast majority of CVS traffic going on these days is bug fixes anyway, so creating the branch only makes it more difficult to keep up - you have to keep the two branches in sync. Issuing a request for people not to develop new features for a couple of months (or telling them to develop in some -dev branch), will, in my opinion, work better than our conventional release process. I'm very worried about sync problems with 4.3. Zeev -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php Met vriendelijke groeten / With kind regards, Webmaster IDG.nl Melvyn Sopacua -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Scratching the 4.3 branch
I don't think we can just not provide some place for people to work on new code. We have way too many extensions in various states of development to just arbitrarily tell everyone to stop what they are doing. The ext/xslt work going on right now is a good example along with the image rotation functions for GD that are waiting in the wings. Whether the 4.3 branch was created too early or not is debatable, but a date was set to give people a kick in the ass and in that respect it worked pretty well. A lot of problems were fixed, or at least looked at in the last week. The answer may be to re-branch when we are ready for RC1. When the implicit_flush mess is resolved and Melvyn gives the thumbs up for the Sablotron stuff then I think we are ready for RC1. -Rasmus On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, Zeev Suraski wrote: I think we'd be better off waiting a bit with the php5 move. In general I just don't think we can push a successful release while we continue developing. If we concentrate on getting 4.3 out the door within a month, we can then concentrate on php5. Zeev At 13:33 06/10/2002, Derick Rethans wrote: On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, Sander Roobol wrote: On Sun, Oct 06, 2002 at 11:01:02AM +0200, Derick Rethans wrote: On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, Zeev Suraski wrote: I think that given the circumstances, we should scratch the 4.3 branch and stick to the main branch for this particular release, at least until we're very close to the release itself. The vast majority of CVS traffic going on these days is bug fixes anyway, so creating the branch only makes it more difficult to keep up - you have to keep the two branches in sync. Issuing a request for people not to develop new features for a couple of months (or telling them to develop in some -dev branch), will, in my opinion, work better than our conventional release process. I'm very worried about sync problems with 4.3. Maybe it's time to opening up the php5 module then... people would be able to work on experimental stuff there without messing up the stable module. It might be a psychological thing but I think it's appropriate here. +1 on removing the branch - to avoid problems with staying in sync with head -1 on the php5 module - it'll move the sync problems to another place I think it does solve things. When there is the php5 module for 'happy hacking', but without touching that's great for new functions, rewritten extensions etc.. while you can fix bugs on the stable, supported, php4 module. Synching when we start actively on php4 would be only needed for not-modified extensions in the php5 module. And perhaps once a month for the PHP core. THis will be much more maintainable than the little merges evry hour. regards, Derick -- --- Derick Rethans http://derickrethans.nl/ JDI Media Solutions --[ if you hold a unix shell to your ear, do you hear the c? ]- -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Scratching the 4.3 branch
At 18:18 6-10-2002, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: When the implicit_flush mess is resolved and Melvyn gives the thumbs up for the Sablotron stuff then I think we are ready for RC1. We're not entering any new features anymore. If we don't hear this doesn't compile / work, and David has supplied a testcase for xslt_set_object, we're good to go. There may be another test, but the current testharness can't handle it. See next message :-) Met vriendelijke groeten / With kind regards, Webmaster IDG.nl Melvyn Sopacua -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Scratching the 4.3 branch
Hello, On Sun, 6 Oct 2002 09:18:42 -0700 (PDT) Rasmus Lerdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the image rotation functions for GD that are waiting in the wings. I just updated the sources (http://www.pearfr.org/phpgd), it seems to work well now(2'bugs' fixed). If it is urgent, I can add now the php function. Btw, it will be very usefull if someone can add $id and a little TODO inside the gd source :-))) hth pa -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Scratching the 4.3 branch
On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Pierre-Alain Joye wrote: Hello, On Sun, 6 Oct 2002 09:18:42 -0700 (PDT) Rasmus Lerdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the image rotation functions for GD that are waiting in the wings. I just updated the sources (http://www.pearfr.org/phpgd), it seems to work well now(2'bugs' fixed). If it is urgent, I can add now the php function. Btw, it will be very usefull if someone can add $id and a little TODO inside the gd source :-))) I am very tempted to clean up the GD source. I hate the way it is formatted. Nothing has happened since March 2001 from the Boutell folks despite numerous bug patches sent their way. Perhaps it is time to give up and go all the way with the fork. As for your functions, whenever you are ready, commit them to HEAD. -Rasmus -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Scratching the 4.3 branch
On Sun, 6 Oct 2002 16:34:15 -0700 (PDT) Rasmus Lerdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am very tempted to clean up the GD source. I hate the way it is formatted. Same here, it s a pain to work with it, as well as the big amout of different functions in the same file ;-) Nothing has happened since March 2001 from the Boutell folks despite numerous bug patches sent their way. Perhaps it is time to give up and go all the way with the fork. It is the time to do it, imho. And php users will be to get a easy to install GD. As for your functions, whenever you are ready, commit them to HEAD. I do believe I ve write access to /php4 (only php4/pear), I never need it, except now for the gd. hth pa -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Scratching the 4.3 branch
On Mon, 7 Oct 2002 01:36:16 +0200 Pierre-Alain Joye [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do believe I ve write access to /php4 (only php4/pear), I never need it, except now for the gd. oops :) I do not believe I ve got the write access to the php4 cvs tree :-) -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP-DEV] Scratching the 4.3 branch
Btw, it will be very usefull if someone can add $id and a little TODO inside the gd source :-))) I am very tempted to clean up the GD source. I hate the way it is formatted. Nothing has happened since March 2001 from the Boutell folks despite numerous bug patches sent their way. Perhaps it is time to give up and go all the way with the fork. fwiw, i think this is a good step. How far are you thinking of going with this? -- james -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
