Re: [PHP] PHP Supremacy...
First thing you need to figure out is whether or not your manager is insane. That argument seems to come from either someone who is, or someone who hasn't a monos(monkeys) clue about software management. A few facts: dotNET runs on Linux - with the help of mono or dotGNU. Check them out, and use them if they fulfill your needs, since it will be easier to port from them to MS, than from MS to mono. XPCOM from the Mozilla Project is a Cross Platform alternative for COM(someone said that COM only works on MS Win) MS is a security nightmare: Not only does it have more holes, but more people are looking to find holes in MS software. More people are looking to exploit holes in MS sw. It takes longer for security updates for MS software. Linux security holes are rarely targeted(in comparison to MS), and if you regularly update your sytem, and subscribe to your distros security mailing list, you're pretty much covered. TCO: MS admins are cheaper to hire, but nix admins get more done. Lets say a windows admin costs $X, and a Linux Admin costs $2X, per year. A linux admin is still better value, since he can manage, about a factor of 10 more than windows admins can. = Linux admins are ~5 times better value than win admins. Zend (Zend.com) offer commercial support for PHP. Zend provide for the PHP professional what MS provides for the dotNET professional. Check out zend.com. You also, when you use PHP, don't rely on any commercially produced code, with the exception of the original-BSD-style-licensed Zend Engine. On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:17:44 -0600, Pedro Irán Méndez Pérez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello my friends, I need your help in convince to my boss in adopt php for development of a tool for intranet in my office, he told me that php is open source and we don´t know if will disappear in a year, or if php have a support like .net. what arguments can I show for convince him to try PHP? Thank you very much :) = ¿Acaso se olvidará la mujer de su bebé, y dejará de compadecerse del hijo de su vientre? Aunque ellas se olviden, yo no me olvidaré de ti Isa 40:27 = Atte Pedro Irán Méndez Pérez -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] PHP Supremacy...
To view the terms under which this email is distributed, please go to http://disclaimer.leedsmet.ac.uk/email.htm On 18 November 2004 03:21, Jason Wong wrote: On Thursday 18 November 2004 06:55, Matthew Sims wrote: If Microsoft one day decides to stop work on .NET or goes out of business, well then that's just too bad. It's proprietary, belongs only to Microsoft and no one has access to the source code to continue its work. If the demand is there someone would just write a clone of .NET. Um -- you mean like Mono http://www.mono-project.com/about/index.html? Cheers! Mike - Mike Ford, Electronic Information Services Adviser, Learning Support Services, Learning Information Services, JG125, James Graham Building, Leeds Metropolitan University, Headingley Campus, LEEDS, LS6 3QS, United Kingdom Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: +44 113 283 2600 extn 4730 Fax: +44 113 283 3211 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] RE: **[SPAM]** Re: [PHP] PHP Supremacy...
You might be interested into the PHP White Paper that PHP Quebec has made. It has example of canadian companies that are using PHP with sucess for mission critical projects. In these compagnies you will find Air Canada, The Canadian Spacial Agency, Labat, Molson ... Your boss will also be able to understand better what PHP is with some example of what it can do. It also has charts and stats :) http://www.phpquebec.com/documents/phpquebec/PHPQuébec-livreblanc.en.0.5.1.pdf Please let me know what you think. Yann On November 18, 2004 16:26, Jay Blanchard wrote: [snip] And this includes the use of extensions to the languages. PHP extensions are free, ASP ones invariably cost. This has implications for the future of any project as well as the starting point: extending an ASP site could cost...well, it's impossible to know right now. Depends what direction we need to take in the future. But PHP extensions will be free. Then there are the license terms which in the case of ASP extensions are, er... we don't know yet. Depends on the extension. [/snip] One simple test here - try to develop an upload script in ASP (using, say, VBScript). Too difficult? Google for one. Find a free one. Too difficult? :7) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Supremacy...
I see: © 2004 Novell, Inc At the bottom of the mono site.. Cool. Yves On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:33:36 -, Ford, Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To view the terms under which this email is distributed, please go to http://disclaimer.leedsmet.ac.uk/email.htm On 18 November 2004 03:21, Jason Wong wrote: On Thursday 18 November 2004 06:55, Matthew Sims wrote: If Microsoft one day decides to stop work on .NET or goes out of business, well then that's just too bad. It's proprietary, belongs only to Microsoft and no one has access to the source code to continue its work. If the demand is there someone would just write a clone of .NET. Um -- you mean like Mono http://www.mono-project.com/about/index.html? Cheers! Mike - Mike Ford, Electronic Information Services Adviser, Learning Support Services, Learning Information Services, JG125, James Graham Building, Leeds Metropolitan University, Headingley Campus, LEEDS, LS6 3QS, United Kingdom Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: +44 113 283 2600 extn 4730 Fax: +44 113 283 3211 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- Yves Arsenault -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] RE: **[SPAM]** Re: [PHP] PHP Supremacy...
On Fri, 2004-11-19 at 06:36, Yann Larrivée wrote: You might be interested into the PHP White Paper that PHP Quebec has made. It has example of canadian companies that are using PHP with sucess for mission critical projects. In these compagnies you will find Air Canada, The Canadian Spacial Agency, Labat, Molson ... Your boss will also be able to understand better what PHP is with some example of what it can do. It also has charts and stats :) http://www.phpquebec.com/documents/phpquebec/PHPQuébec-livreblanc.en.0.5.1.pdf Please let me know what you think. Je got redirected a la page du chez PHP Quebec. Cheers, Rob. -- .. | InterJinn Application Framework - http://www.interjinn.com | :: | An application and templating framework for PHP. Boasting | | a powerful, scalable system for accessing system services | | such as forms, properties, sessions, and caches. InterJinn | | also provides an extremely flexible architecture for | | creating re-usable components quickly and easily. | `' -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Supremacy...
Yves Arsenault wrote: I see: © 2004 Novell, Inc At the bottom of the mono site.. Does not matter who is the current sponsor. The project is released under LGPL and MIT X1 licence: http://www.mono-project.com/about/licensing.html -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Supremacy...
I just thought it was neat to see a competitor of MS :-) Yves On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:26:40 +0100, Marek Kilimajer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yves Arsenault wrote: I see: © 2004 Novell, Inc At the bottom of the mono site.. Does not matter who is the current sponsor. The project is released under LGPL and MIT X1 licence: http://www.mono-project.com/about/licensing.html -- Yves Arsenault -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] PHP Supremacy...
Thanks for the link. Here's one relating to Yahoo's use of PHP: http://public.yahoo.com/~radwin/talks/yahoo-phpcon2002.htm Also, out of curiosity I recently did a search trying to find some numbers comparing ASP usage to PHP usage. Market dominance and penetration and such. I didn't look too long and didn't find any GREAT sites with hard numbers, but here's some random tidbits I came across. I don't have time to figure out which of the links I bookmarked I got the info from, so forgive the rough numbers and paraphrasing. There seemed to be a 2003 survey of IT professionals (as well as another source or two) that seemed to indicate the following: Roughly 1/3 of the web servers on the internet these days run IIS Roughly 2/3 run Apache in some fashion Ok, so I'm rounding a little.. There were a smattering of other web servers of course, but let's work with these numbers as an example. Roughly 40-50% of the Apache guys were running PHP as their primary scripting language (at least for web authoring). Assuming that 100% of the IIS guys run ASP or ASP.NET (which isn't a great assumption, but let's make it anyway). That'd put IIS + ASP at roughly 1/3 market penetration and Apache + PHP at roughly 1/3. When I think of Microsoft vs Other, especially open source, I feel like that even if it's close, it's going to be a 60/40 or 70/30 sort of split in MS's favor, not a dead 50/50 sort of deal. So these kind of stats are VERY encouraging for anyone who needs to make the argument to their boss regarding how popular PHP is, if it's going to be around for a while (see other responses for ammo on that argument, I agree with all of them so far) and if there are going to be people to support your PHP apps if you die, quit, get fired, join a monestary, etc. There can't be that many Apache + PHP based servers without a corresponding number of developers. There aren't 20 PHP developers doing all the work and 100,000 ASP developers doing the same amount of work in ASP. There was another thread earlier this week though talking about justifying the use of PHP and another great point was brought up. What do you use for your main servers currently... What do the other developers you possibly work with already know versus would have to learn, what other applications do you have an what languages are THEY written in, etc. There are a lot more questions that need to be asked in order to justify PHP development. If you have a bunch of .NET developers and already have some ASP.NET applications, then it might be more cost effective for you, a single person, to learn ASP.NET (I know, I'd hate to give up PHP too), then to have 5 other people learn PHP and then convert existing applications over to PHP, etc. ASP and ASP.NET are free, just like PHP.. If you already run MS servers. The good development tools might be another story, but if you have Windows XP (Pro I believe), then you have IIS and can run ASP and maybe ASP.NET. If you have Windows 95 or Windows 98, you have Personal Web Server which will do ASP. I think open source means a more guarenteed support base and backward compatibility compared ot MS's whim of the day deciding that things like J++ weren't viable to support, for example. Sure, there are still J++ developers and user groups and such, but it only lasts so long before someone says This is antiquated, we need to move to something else. Sure, eventually most of us will have to port our PHP4 stuff to PHP5 PHP changes too.. But it's less dramatic than going from J++ to C# or something. Anyway, I'm babbling now. Just some things to think about. Keep fighting the good fight. Keep asking the right questions. Good luck. -TG -Original Message- From: Jordi Canals [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 9:34 PM To: PHP List Subject: Re: [PHP] PHP Supremacy... On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:17:44 -0600, Pedro Irán Méndez Pérez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello my friends, I need your help in convince to my boss in adopt php for development of a tool for intranet in my office, he told me that php is open source and we don´t know if will disappear in a year, or if php have a support like .net. what arguments can I show for convince him to try PHP? You know that PHP will not disapear in a year, as it is Open Source and anybody can take it and do what he wants with the source code ... Also there are important companies that have PHP based bussines (Zend for example). Well, the first thing you must tell him is that Microsoft has demonstred that changes technologies at his own interests. When a new version is released you have to update if you want support. As the source code is closed, nobody else than MS can maintain the code, so you're married with them. And of course, any upgrade means lots of money. If you choose the MS platform, Microsoft will decide when you should upgrade, if you look
Re[2]: [PHP] PHP Supremacy...
Hello Trevor, Thursday, November 18, 2004, 4:55:50 PM, you wrote: GT Roughly 1/3 of the web servers on the internet these days run IIS GT Roughly 2/3 run Apache in some fashion I know you said roughly, but it's less than 1/3 running IIS, quite a bit less infact. The latest Nov. 2004 Netstat survey puts it at well under a quarter (21.25% to be exact) with Apache at 67.77% http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2004/11/01/november_2004_web_server_survey.html GT Roughly 40-50% of the Apache guys were running PHP as their GT primary scripting language (at least for web authoring). Ok, for the sake of argument let's assume it's 40%. I don't believe for a second it is that high, but anyway.. that would be approx. 15.2 million sites running PHP. GT Assuming that 100% of the IIS guys run ASP or ASP.NET (which isn't GT a great assumption, but let's make it anyway). That'd put IIS + GT ASP at roughly 1/3 market penetration and Apache + PHP at roughly GT 1/3. Ok, let's also assume that 100% of the IIS sites out there use ASP, that's still only 11.9 million sites which doesn't give them an equal market share in my books :) The problem of course is that while all IIS hosted sites have the ABILITY to use ASP, I would be utterly stunned if anywhere near half of those actually did. Just in the same way that while all Apache servers *could* run PHP if they wanted, I'd be amazed if all site owners used it. There are millions and millions of static HTML sites out there, I don't think you can accurately gauge it on server software alone. I know that you weren't trying to, but I'm just saying. GT ASP and ASP.NET are free, just like PHP.. If you already run MS GT servers. The good development tools might be another story, It's the total cost of ownership though. GT but if you have Windows XP (Pro I believe), then you have IIS and GT can run ASP and maybe ASP.NET. If you have Windows 95 or Windows GT 98, you have Personal Web Server which will do ASP. You can run ASP.NET on any PC capable of supporting the .NET Framework. Look at the number of IIS related security issues on Netcraft, Bugtraq, etc. Even with a 20% market share it's still got more holes than a piece of Swiss cheese, although I dare say the majority of those are down to using Windows as the host OS in the first place. I'm not trying to start that holy platform war here, I'm just saying IIS could be the most awesome piece of coding ever, but it'll still always fall foul to that which it sits upon. Best regards, Richard Davey -- http://www.launchcode.co.uk - PHP Development Services I am not young enough to know everything. - Oscar Wilde -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: Re[2]: [PHP] PHP Supremacy...
GT Roughly 1/3 of the web servers on the internet these days run IIS GT Roughly 2/3 run Apache in some fashion I know you said roughly, but it's less than 1/3 running IIS, quite a bit less infact. The latest Nov. 2004 Netstat survey puts it at well under a quarter (21.25% to be exact) with Apache at 67.77% http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2004/11/01/november_2004_web_server_su rvey.html Yeah.. roughly hah. I'm sticking to that phrase. :) And yes, Netcraft was one of the sites I was looking at for the information I mentioned earlier. Thanks for the link. Ok, let's also assume that 100% of the IIS sites out there use ASP, that's still only 11.9 million sites which doesn't give them an equal market share in my books :) Ahh.. What about +/- ?? % margin of error? (devil's advocate hah) The problem of course is that while all IIS hosted sites have the ABILITY to use ASP, I would be utterly stunned if anywhere near half of those actually did. Just in the same way that while all Apache servers *could* run PHP if they wanted, I'd be amazed if all site owners used it. There are millions and millions of static HTML sites out there, I don't think you can accurately gauge it on server software alone. I know that you weren't trying to, but I'm just saying. Agreed. Very good point. GT ASP and ASP.NET are free, just like PHP.. If you already run MS GT servers. The good development tools might be another story, It's the total cost of ownership though. True. Then let's look at average salary of a Windows server admin versus un*x server admin. I'd be curious to see how they stacked up. That'd have to be part of your total cost of ownership as well. Unless you were totally starting from scratch and were doing it all yourself (learning whatever tech you needed to learn to get it all done). Then you'd have to factor in how much maintenance time each OS required on a regular basis, etc. Too much math for me right now. But in general, I think it's fair to say that free OS + free scripting + free web server probably beast out pricey OS + free scripting + free web server. But something has to be factored in for we need this OS for other things/requirements too. That's a bigger and more complicated question. I don't know anyone who has set up a server specifically for web hosting and no other purpose (ok, before you jump on me about people having dedicated web servers... Chances are, they have other servers on the same network that handle ActiveDirectory, DNS, mail, etc and their web server choice was highly influenced by their choice in other servers.. Please take my above statement as one server, one function, no other influences or something. The phrasing I want isn't coming to me right now so I'm going to be lazy and send it out just like this.. Hah). In general I do agree though. Total cost of ownership is PROBABLY less with free OS + free scripting + free web server. Look at the number of IIS related security issues on Netcraft, Bugtraq, etc. Even with a 20% market share it's still got more holes than a piece of Swiss cheese, although I dare say the majority of those are down to using Windows as the host OS in the first place. True.. Not like other OS's DON'T have security issues though. Running Sendmail on your un*x box with Apache + PHP? Running SunOS or IRIX? How about the recent Mac OS X un*x based security issues? Again, devil's advocate I'm not a huge MS fan, but it's not like they're the only OS and general platform that provides security issues. PHP and Apache have had their share. Maybe MS has more in general, or maybe certain bits of MS's collection of apps have had more, but how does that add up to all the little ones that various un*x components have had? How do you quantify how vulnerable or unstable is your OS?? It seems like MS might be more vulnerable, but how would you honestly measure that? I'm not trying to start that holy platform war here, I'm just saying IIS could be the most awesome piece of coding ever, but it'll still always fall foul to that which it sits upon. Yup.. I agree. Again, I'm not trying to start any holy wars either. I use whatever OS or scripting language or whatever you put in front of me. I have my favorites, but there's good stuff in most systems. And I don't take your comments as being flaming or antagonistic at all. But the question remains in my mind, how does someone really, fairly, measure all this stuff and give an accurate comparison between the various system setups and configurations? I don't care to find out really. I let the evengelical users of one system or another go on about how great their system is (even PHP) and usually stay out of the discussions that I feel are more opinion based than hard-facts based. Whatever people choose to use is cool with me. I have my reasons for using what I use.. And so do they. Whatever gets the job done eh? Best regards, Richard Davey
Re: [PHP] PHP Supremacy...
Richard Davey wrote: Hello Trevor, Thursday, November 18, 2004, 4:55:50 PM, you wrote: GT Roughly 1/3 of the web servers on the internet these days run IIS GT Roughly 2/3 run Apache in some fashion I know you said roughly, but it's less than 1/3 running IIS, quite a bit less infact. The latest Nov. 2004 Netstat survey puts it at well under a quarter (21.25% to be exact) with Apache at 67.77% http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2004/11/01/november_2004_web_server_survey.html What's more, the IIS figure is down from a high of 35% in 2002 and is continuing to shrink. Apache is continuing to grow. There are reasons for this... GT Roughly 40-50% of the Apache guys were running PHP as their GT primary scripting language (at least for web authoring). Ok, for the sake of argument let's assume it's 40%. I don't believe for a second it is that high, but anyway.. that would be approx. 15.2 million sites running PHP. There's a Netcraft survey based graph at php.net that shows about 17 million PHP-powered sites. And we don't need to make assumptions about ASP either: PHP overtook classic in 2002 and ASP.Net powers fewer than 3 million sites. [snip] GT ASP and ASP.NET are free, just like PHP.. If you already run MS GT servers. The good development tools might be another story, That's a four-figure if, though, in practice. Not much in the budget for most serious sites or hosting infrastructures, but still needs to be factored in. It's a few missing features on any ASP site with a fixed budget, compared to the equivalent Open Source OS/Apache alternative. Development tools? OK, but you can develop on any platform and there are some great free tools. Oh, you want to use MS? Let me take that back. Want to make sense of the logs? That's more spondulicks. What's your database backend going to be? And so on. It's the total cost of ownership though. And this includes the use of extensions to the languages. PHP extensions are free, ASP ones invariably cost. This has implications for the future of any project as well as the starting point: extending an ASP site could cost...well, it's impossible to know right now. Depends what direction we need to take in the future. But PHP extensions will be free. Then there are the license terms which in the case of ASP extensions are, er... we don't know yet. Depends on the extension. Bit of a no-brainer, really. GT but if you have Windows XP (Pro I believe), then you have IIS and GT can run ASP and maybe ASP.NET. If you have Windows 95 or Windows GT 98, you have Personal Web Server which will do ASP. Hell of a waste of perfectly good hardware, though. If you want to run a web server, Linux or FreeBSD will run rings round any of the above. You do need a MS server OS for reasonable performance and security if you want to go the MS route. MS is great for some things. And there are things only MS can do (COM objects spring to mind). But in the main, it's a bad choice for hosting. I haven't even mentioned security - take a look at the server uptime charts sometime. That's almost entirely a function of security. It's great to be able to set up a FreeBSD server (the top 50 are almost always all *BSD) and leave it running/earning for three years without even a reboot. That's why the figures are as they are. Regards, Peter. -- the circle squared network systems and software http://www.circlesquared.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] RE: **[SPAM]** Re: [PHP] PHP Supremacy...
[snip] And this includes the use of extensions to the languages. PHP extensions are free, ASP ones invariably cost. This has implications for the future of any project as well as the starting point: extending an ASP site could cost...well, it's impossible to know right now. Depends what direction we need to take in the future. But PHP extensions will be free. Then there are the license terms which in the case of ASP extensions are, er... we don't know yet. Depends on the extension. [/snip] One simple test here - try to develop an upload script in ASP (using, say, VBScript). Too difficult? Google for one. Find a free one. Too difficult? :7) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] PHP Supremacy...
[snip] There's a Netcraft survey based graph at php.net that shows about 17 million PHP-powered sites. And we don't need to make assumptions about ASP either: PHP overtook classic in 2002 and ASP.Net powers fewer than 3 million sites. [\snip] Also remember that all you need to dev PHP is a text editor. I still do a lot of editing in notepad and wordpad. When you start doing .Net applications you need to get visual studio - which is far from inexpensive. PHP will be around for a LONG time because it's accessible. So many people can use it and it easily crosses from dev to live environments - some of which on different platforms. So all the numbers aside, PHP will survive because so many people have the ability to use it for whatever they can think of in virtually whatever task they need it to fulfill. The PHP community isn't just a group of hardcore advocates. Hang around the boards for a few weeks and see how many people are first time posters. The number is growing and doesn't take into account the people that never make it here. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[Fwd: Re: [PHP] PHP Supremacy...]
Whoops, didn't include the list. -- the circle squared network systems and software http://www.circlesquared.com ---BeginMessage--- Pedro Irán Méndez Pérez wrote: Hello my friends, I need your help in convince to my boss in adopt php for development of a tool for intranet in my office, he told me that php is open source and we don´t know if will disappear in a year, or if php have a support like .net. what arguments can I show for convince him to try PHP? Maybe point out to your manager that the internet is, essentially, open source software. That, as others have pointed out, the whole essence of Open Source is that it can't disappear. This is a question to be asked about proprietary software, not open source. The biggest problem might be tact: he's not being terribly bright. Regards, Peter. -- the circle squared network systems and software http://www.circlesquared.com ---End Message--- -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] PHP Supremacy...
Hello my friends, I need your help in convince to my boss in adopt php for development of a tool for intranet in my office, he told me that php is open source and we don´t know if will disappear in a year, or if php have a support like .net. what arguments can I show for convince him to try PHP? Thank you very much :) = ¿Acaso se olvidará la mujer de su bebé, y dejará de compadecerse del hijo de su vientre? Aunque ellas se olviden, yo no me olvidaré de ti Isa 40:27 = Atte Pedro Irán Méndez Pérez -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Supremacy...
On Wed, 2004-11-17 at 16:17 -0600, Pedro Irn Mndez Prez wrote: Hello my friends, I need your help in convince to my boss in adopt php for development of a tool for intranet in my office, he told me that php is open source and we dont know if will disappear in a year, or if php have a support like .net. what arguments can I show for convince him to try PHP? Thank you very much :) The internet might disappear in a year..and then PHP could disappear as well. -- /*** * Robby Russell | Owner.Developer.Geek * PLANET ARGON | www.planetargon.com * Portland, OR | [EMAIL PROTECTED] * 503.351.4730 | blog.planetargon.com * PHP/PostgreSQL Hosting Development *--- Now supporting PHP5 --- / signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [PHP] PHP Supremacy...
Hello my friends, I need your help in convince to my boss in adopt php for development of a tool for intranet in my office, he told me that php is open source and we don´t know if will disappear in a year, or if php have a support like .net. what arguments can I show for convince him to try PHP? Thank you very much :) If the original developers of PHP decide to stop working on PHP, anyone can pick it up and continue developing it since it's open source. If Microsoft one day decides to stop work on .NET or goes out of business, well then that's just too bad. It's proprietary, belongs only to Microsoft and no one has access to the source code to continue its work. Seeing the major breakthrough PHP has made in the past few years, does your boss really think PHP is going away? I see that Perl is still around. -- --Matthew Sims --http://killermookie.org -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] PHP Supremacy...
Because among 17 million installed domains, and because the Open Source is open, someone in those 17 million domains will keep it going. http://www.php.net/usage.php Some people never get it, you confuse them with too many facts, hope your manager has an open mind. Warren Vail -Original Message- From: Matthew Sims [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 2:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PHP] PHP Supremacy... Hello my friends, I need your help in convince to my boss in adopt php for development of a tool for intranet in my office, he told me that php is open source and we don´t know if will disappear in a year, or if php have a support like .net. what arguments can I show for convince him to try PHP? Thank you very much :) If the original developers of PHP decide to stop working on PHP, anyone can pick it up and continue developing it since it's open source. If Microsoft one day decides to stop work on .NET or goes out of business, well then that's just too bad. It's proprietary, belongs only to Microsoft and no one has access to the source code to continue its work. Seeing the major breakthrough PHP has made in the past few years, does your boss really think PHP is going away? I see that Perl is still around. -- --Matthew Sims --http://killermookie.org -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] PHP Supremacy...
I was really sad to see Perl discontinued so many years ago... damned open source community not taking care of it's own. -Original Message- From: Pedro Irán Méndez Pérez [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 5:18 PM To: Lista de Php-General Subject: [PHP] PHP Supremacy... Hello my friends, I need your help in convince to my boss in adopt php for development of a tool for intranet in my office, he told me that php is open source and we don´t know if will disappear in a year, or if php have a support like .net. what arguments can I show for convince him to try PHP? Thank you very much :) = ¿Acaso se olvidará la mujer de su bebé, y dejará de compadecerse del hijo de su vientre? Aunque ellas se olviden, yo no me olvidaré de ti Isa 40:27 = Atte Pedro Irán Méndez Pérez -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Supremacy...
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:17:44 -0600, Pedro Irán Méndez Pérez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello my friends, I need your help in convince to my boss in adopt php for development of a tool for intranet in my office, he told me that php is open source and we don´t know if will disappear in a year, or if php have a support like .net. what arguments can I show for convince him to try PHP? You know that PHP will not disapear in a year, as it is Open Source and anybody can take it and do what he wants with the source code ... Also there are important companies that have PHP based bussines (Zend for example). Well, the first thing you must tell him is that Microsoft has demonstred that changes technologies at his own interests. When a new version is released you have to update if you want support. As the source code is closed, nobody else than MS can maintain the code, so you're married with them. And of course, any upgrade means lots of money. If you choose the MS platform, Microsoft will decide when you should upgrade, if you look at PHP, you have not to upgrade to PHP-5 if PHP4 covers yours needs, as PHP4 continues maintained and patched. Developing in dotNET means that you will not be able to change your platform in the future. As it only runs on Windows, you cannot change in the future. Choosing PHP gives you the freedom to change your systems when you want. You can concentrate in your development and don't worry about the platform what will host your scriuts: PHP will run in that platform. You know PHP is available for ANY platform: Windows, Linux. Solaris, FreeBSD, and all sort of Unix ... Also, if you choose PHP, you will easly find lots of ready-made scripts to help you in your work and to speed-up your developments. You know, there are tons of sites and projects that provides you with scripts for almost any purpose and with free open source license. Make a search in Google and compare results of free code available written in PHP and in dotNET. Also the learning curve for PHP is really short. You can quickly start with simple scripts and scale fast ... If you thing about hosting companies, most of them support PHP, and only some support dotNet hosting ... in that price is a factor, as the companies must pay licenses for Windows and dotNet, when they can give the same services with Linux+PHP, so, hosting PHP scripts is always cheaper than hosting dotNET pages. Now, some info taken from the web: Taken from the Oracle website. Good article that tells why Oracle chooses PHP at http://www.oracle.com/technology/pub/articles/hull_asp.html PHP 4 PHP 5 ASP.NET Software price freefreefree Platform price freefree$$ Speed strong strong weak Efficiency strong strong weak Securitystrong strong strong Platformstrong strong weak (IIS only) Platformany any win32 (IIS only) Source availableyes yes no Exceptions no yes yes OOP weakstrong strong Also, you can point to some well known companies that use PHP (From the Zend Website) : Lucent Technologies McGrawn Hill Lycos Lufthansa Hewlett Packard Nortel Networks AMD Siemens Apple UPS Bausch Lomb Also you will find interesting comparisions and articles if you search at Google: php vs asp.net why choose php over asp.net? Regards, Jordi. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Supremacy...
On Thursday 18 November 2004 06:55, Matthew Sims wrote: If Microsoft one day decides to stop work on .NET or goes out of business, well then that's just too bad. It's proprietary, belongs only to Microsoft and no one has access to the source code to continue its work. If the demand is there someone would just write a clone of .NET. -- Jason Wong - Gremlins Associates - www.gremlins.biz Open Source Software Systems Integrators * Web Design Hosting * Internet Intranet Applications Development * -- Search the list archives before you post http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-general -- /* BOFH Excuse #344: Network failure - call NBC */ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Supremacy...
What do you mean by perl discontinued? Perl 5 is continuu updated and this year I have seen perl 5.8.1, 5.8.3, 5.8.4, 5.8.5 is almost done. Perl 6 is planned to run in a precompiled code (like Java programs) in an environment that will also be able to run programs created in other programming languages like Python... For the programs that output web pages PHP is prefered even it is not so complex like perl for the moment, because PHP is especially created for this job. I have seen a web page in which Yahoo explained why they have chosen PHP as their programming language for their dynamic web pages and not ASP, java or C or perl. (But they say that they also use perl programs for their backend tasks). (and not ASP or Cold Fusion or other proprietary languages) Teddy - Original Message - From: Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Lista de Php-General' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 2:05 AM Subject: RE: [PHP] PHP Supremacy... I was really sad to see Perl discontinued so many years ago... damned open source community not taking care of it's own. -Original Message- From: Pedro Irán Méndez Pérez [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 5:18 PM To: Lista de Php-General Subject: [PHP] PHP Supremacy... Hello my friends, I need your help in convince to my boss in adopt php for -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Supremacy...
Octavian Rasnita wrote: What do you mean by perl discontinued? Perl 5 is continuu updated and this year I have seen perl 5.8.1, 5.8.3, 5.8.4, 5.8.5 is almost done. That was meant to be a JOKE lol Perl 6 is planned to run in a precompiled code (like Java programs) in an environment that will also be able to run programs created in other programming languages like Python... For the programs that output web pages PHP is prefered even it is not so complex like perl for the moment, because PHP is especially created for this job. I have seen a web page in which Yahoo explained why they have chosen PHP as their programming language for their dynamic web pages and not ASP, java or C or perl. (But they say that they also use perl programs for their backend tasks). (and not ASP or Cold Fusion or other proprietary languages) Teddy - Original Message - From: Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Lista de Php-General' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 2:05 AM Subject: RE: [PHP] PHP Supremacy... I was really sad to see Perl discontinued so many years ago... damned open source community not taking care of it's own. -Original Message- From: Pedro Irán Méndez Pérez [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 5:18 PM To: Lista de Php-General Subject: [PHP] PHP Supremacy... Hello my friends, I need your help in convince to my boss in adopt php for -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
