Re: [PHP] SMS questions
On Friday 13 July 2007 22:38, Robert Cummings wrote: in which the sender is responsible for storing the mail until the intended recipient retrieves it seems like a good start. Bleh, that's so easily solvable for spammers. Create one real message, then softllink it for every actual email they send out. Millions of links are cheap. There's not going to be any single measure that will solve the spam problem - short of executing all perpetrators of spam and all owners whose machines are involved in the propagation of spam - but rather a whole raft of measures of which the above is just one. -- Crayon -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] SMS questions
On Mon, 2007-07-16 at 23:04 +0800, Crayon Shin Chan wrote: On Friday 13 July 2007 22:38, Robert Cummings wrote: in which the sender is responsible for storing the mail until the intended recipient retrieves it seems like a good start. Bleh, that's so easily solvable for spammers. Create one real message, then softllink it for every actual email they send out. Millions of links are cheap. There's not going to be any single measure that will solve the spam problem - short of executing all perpetrators of spam and all owners whose machines are involved in the propagation of spam - but rather a whole raft of measures of which the above is just one. Where's the signup list for the spammer lynching mob? :) Cheers, Rob. -- ... SwarmBuy.com - http://www.swarmbuy.com Leveraging the buying power of the masses! ... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] SMS questions
Sorry, www.textit.biz Cheers -Original Message- From: Dan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 13 July 2007 17:52 To: php-general@lists.php.net Subject: Re: [PHP] SMS questions Might want to retry that link, it's broken. - Dan Steve Perkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Richard makes some good points. Further to the original posting though, I have a friend who works with this SMS stuff, and out of interest asked him about it. Here is his (slightly scary) response, might be of some use ... His website is www.textit,biz -Original Message- From: Shaun M. Nixon Sent: 13 July 2007 09:17 To: Steve Perkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: FW: [PHP] SMS questions Hi Steve Hope you're doing fine. It is possible. In short, you have seen how a SMS message is sent using a operators Name label i.e. the Messages says who it's from e.g. TEXT IT, but you are unable to reply because the Sender is 'Text it' and not a mobile number. Well in the same mechanism, you can send a mobile phone number as the Label. Thus allowing you to send someone a message as if it came from someone else. I guess this is what is being asked / wanted - spoofing a Mobile. It is illegal to do this without consent and you must audit / prove ownership / identity of the phone regarding the use / service (highly regulated) - it also carries great risk to the provider (e.g. 2 Million fine from ICTICS), hence most companies reluctance etc. I believe Skype have recently introduced this service (but it's expensive) if Brian wants to try it out. We can do the same if required, as too relay all reply messages via email / texts if needed. Kind Regards Shaun Nixon Principal Consultant W: www.textit.biz -Original Message- From: Steve Perkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 13 July 2007 01:05 To: Shaun M. Nixon Subject: FW: [PHP] SMS questions I saw this and I though of you Shaun. You have any answers ? Cheers -Original Message- From: Brian Dunning [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 13 July 2007 00:40 To: php-general@lists.php.net Subject: [PHP] SMS questions Hi all - I've been looking at a number of the commercial service providers for bulk SMS messaging, most of whom have PHP APIs. But since they are selling something they don't answer my question Is there any (legal, legitimate) way to send an SMS message that can be replied to the desired SMS cell number? Like, if I use PHP to send an SMS to Bob, can I make it appear to come from Jim's cell phone so that Bob can reply directly to Jim normally? The services all require Jim to log into their web site to read any replies. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] SMS questions
On Thu, July 12, 2007 7:07 pm, Brian Dunning wrote: Here's another thing that would be nice: A web service to look up the carrier for a cell number. That way you could simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED], though this would still be only a partial solution. This is a lot harder now that numbers are transportable between carriers. If you have the service from the SMS vendors, you can lookup the carrier for any number. If there was a web service for it, you'd have a zillion more spammers using those gateways to send text messages to random cell numbers. Oh joy. I was not able to find any service provider that makes the SMS messages appear to come from the sender's cell phone, so they could be replied to normally. So you'll have to play postman and route things through your number. Doesn't seem that onerous to me... -- Some people have a gift link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some indie artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] SMS questions
On Thu, July 12, 2007 6:39 pm, Brian Dunning wrote: Hi all - I've been looking at a number of the commercial service providers for bulk SMS messaging, most of whom have PHP APIs. But since they are selling something they don't answer my question Is there any (legal, legitimate) way to send an SMS message that can be replied to the desired SMS cell number? Like, if I use PHP to send an SMS to Bob, can I make it appear to come from Jim's cell phone so that Bob can reply directly to Jim normally? The services all require Jim to log into their web site to read any replies. Almost for sure no. The SMS carriers are taking their lessons from email spam and pretty much won't let you do anything even remotely like that hinky. Plus, their only customers are mostly, umm, errr, ring tones and fortune-tellers, so they have more than enough problems already with disputed billing from their clients' customers. Hmmm. I'm probably conflating SMS short code provisioning with more general short code services, as I only worked on a short code application... But I'm betting you can't forge the caller phone number even in regular messaging. Just too much room for abuse there. Good Luck! -- Some people have a gift link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some indie artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] SMS questions
It's annoying as crap to work with them. But if they were not so vigilant and picuyane, you know what we'd have? A zillion spam phone messages ringing your cell day and night from all kinds of idiots. Do you really want that? I sure don't. Give them at least some credit for trying to be responsible, even if it does stifle lot of potentially useful applications. I'd give a lot of money to be able to teleport back in time and yell at the email designer folks to tell them just how horrible a mess they were making... :-) On Thu, July 12, 2007 6:56 pm, Nathan Nobbe wrote: Brian, I was experimenting late last year using PHP to send SMS messages. I think there is a lot of potential in the marketplace around SMS. But most of the phone companies wouldnt even talk to me and all i was trying to do was hit a development API to test some code out. im almost certain you will have to go through a provider if you intend to have messages source # based upon a value you provide rather than a phone you own. i have already grown a deep hatred for telcos due to this exclusive club thing they have going. i will focus all my energy on any opportunity that arises to thwart them. good luck, -nathan On 7/12/07, Brian Dunning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all - I've been looking at a number of the commercial service providers for bulk SMS messaging, most of whom have PHP APIs. But since they are selling something they don't answer my question Is there any (legal, legitimate) way to send an SMS message that can be replied to the desired SMS cell number? Like, if I use PHP to send an SMS to Bob, can I make it appear to come from Jim's cell phone so that Bob can reply directly to Jim normally? The services all require Jim to log into their web site to read any replies. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- Some people have a gift link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some indie artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] SMS questions
On Friday 13 July 2007 14:07, Richard Lynch wrote: I'd give a lot of money to be able to teleport back in time and yell at the email designer folks to tell them just how horrible a mess they were making... :-) But you have to give them credit for designing something so scaleable that even decades later it is still able to cope with the billions of spam. On the other hand if it weren't so scaleable it might have forced some drastic changes much earlier to curtail spam. Something like this: http://cr.yp.to/im2000.html in which the sender is responsible for storing the mail until the intended recipient retrieves it seems like a good start. -- Crayon -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] SMS questions
On Fri, 2007-07-13 at 22:30 +0800, Crayon Shin Chan wrote: On Friday 13 July 2007 14:07, Richard Lynch wrote: I'd give a lot of money to be able to teleport back in time and yell at the email designer folks to tell them just how horrible a mess they were making... :-) But you have to give them credit for designing something so scaleable that even decades later it is still able to cope with the billions of spam. On the other hand if it weren't so scaleable it might have forced some drastic changes much earlier to curtail spam. Something like this: http://cr.yp.to/im2000.html in which the sender is responsible for storing the mail until the intended recipient retrieves it seems like a good start. Bleh, that's so easily solvable for spammers. Create one real message, then softllink it for every actual email they send out. Millions of links are cheap. Of course, that sort of presumes they use their own computers :) Cheers, Rob. -- ... SwarmBuy.com - http://www.swarmbuy.com Leveraging the buying power of the masses! ... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
FW: [PHP] SMS questions
Richard makes some good points. Further to the original posting though, I have a friend who works with this SMS stuff, and out of interest asked him about it. Here is his (slightly scary) response, might be of some use ... His website is www.textit,biz -Original Message- From: Shaun M. Nixon Sent: 13 July 2007 09:17 To: Steve Perkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: FW: [PHP] SMS questions Hi Steve Hope you're doing fine. It is possible. In short, you have seen how a SMS message is sent using a operators Name label i.e. the Messages says who it's from e.g. TEXT IT, but you are unable to reply because the Sender is 'Text it' and not a mobile number. Well in the same mechanism, you can send a mobile phone number as the Label. Thus allowing you to send someone a message as if it came from someone else. I guess this is what is being asked / wanted - spoofing a Mobile. It is illegal to do this without consent and you must audit / prove ownership / identity of the phone regarding the use / service (highly regulated) - it also carries great risk to the provider (e.g. 2 Million fine from ICTICS), hence most companies reluctance etc. I believe Skype have recently introduced this service (but it's expensive) if Brian wants to try it out. We can do the same if required, as too relay all reply messages via email / texts if needed. Kind Regards Shaun Nixon Principal Consultant W: www.textit.biz -Original Message- From: Steve Perkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 13 July 2007 01:05 To: Shaun M. Nixon Subject: FW: [PHP] SMS questions I saw this and I though of you Shaun. You have any answers ? Cheers -Original Message- From: Brian Dunning [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 13 July 2007 00:40 To: php-general@lists.php.net Subject: [PHP] SMS questions Hi all - I've been looking at a number of the commercial service providers for bulk SMS messaging, most of whom have PHP APIs. But since they are selling something they don't answer my question Is there any (legal, legitimate) way to send an SMS message that can be replied to the desired SMS cell number? Like, if I use PHP to send an SMS to Bob, can I make it appear to come from Jim's cell phone so that Bob can reply directly to Jim normally? The services all require Jim to log into their web site to read any replies. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] SMS questions
Might want to retry that link, it's broken. - Dan Steve Perkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Richard makes some good points. Further to the original posting though, I have a friend who works with this SMS stuff, and out of interest asked him about it. Here is his (slightly scary) response, might be of some use ... His website is www.textit,biz -Original Message- From: Shaun M. Nixon Sent: 13 July 2007 09:17 To: Steve Perkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: FW: [PHP] SMS questions Hi Steve Hope you're doing fine. It is possible. In short, you have seen how a SMS message is sent using a operators Name label i.e. the Messages says who it's from e.g. TEXT IT, but you are unable to reply because the Sender is 'Text it' and not a mobile number. Well in the same mechanism, you can send a mobile phone number as the Label. Thus allowing you to send someone a message as if it came from someone else. I guess this is what is being asked / wanted - spoofing a Mobile. It is illegal to do this without consent and you must audit / prove ownership / identity of the phone regarding the use / service (highly regulated) - it also carries great risk to the provider (e.g. 2 Million fine from ICTICS), hence most companies reluctance etc. I believe Skype have recently introduced this service (but it's expensive) if Brian wants to try it out. We can do the same if required, as too relay all reply messages via email / texts if needed. Kind Regards Shaun Nixon Principal Consultant W: www.textit.biz -Original Message- From: Steve Perkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 13 July 2007 01:05 To: Shaun M. Nixon Subject: FW: [PHP] SMS questions I saw this and I though of you Shaun. You have any answers ? Cheers -Original Message- From: Brian Dunning [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 13 July 2007 00:40 To: php-general@lists.php.net Subject: [PHP] SMS questions Hi all - I've been looking at a number of the commercial service providers for bulk SMS messaging, most of whom have PHP APIs. But since they are selling something they don't answer my question Is there any (legal, legitimate) way to send an SMS message that can be replied to the desired SMS cell number? Like, if I use PHP to send an SMS to Bob, can I make it appear to come from Jim's cell phone so that Bob can reply directly to Jim normally? The services all require Jim to log into their web site to read any replies. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] SMS questions
On Fri, July 13, 2007 9:38 am, Robert Cummings wrote: On Fri, 2007-07-13 at 22:30 +0800, Crayon Shin Chan wrote: On Friday 13 July 2007 14:07, Richard Lynch wrote: I'd give a lot of money to be able to teleport back in time and yell at the email designer folks to tell them just how horrible a mess they were making... :-) But you have to give them credit for designing something so scaleable that even decades later it is still able to cope with the billions of spam. On the other hand if it weren't so scaleable it might have forced some drastic changes much earlier to curtail spam. Something like this: http://cr.yp.to/im2000.html in which the sender is responsible for storing the mail until the intended recipient retrieves it seems like a good start. Bleh, that's so easily solvable for spammers. Create one real message, then softllink it for every actual email they send out. Millions of links are cheap. Of course, that sort of presumes they use their own computers :) It won't reduce the number of spams being sent, but at least they'll be a lot smaller, with only a couple headers... Plus, any rampant spammer can be tracked down to their hard drive, and action can be taken, or their URLs can just be blocked by proxies to end traffic to them. It won't eliminate, or even reduce spam, most likely, but it oughta reduce the harm done by spam. -- Some people have a gift link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some indie artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] SMS questions
Brian, I was experimenting late last year using PHP to send SMS messages. I think there is a lot of potential in the marketplace around SMS. But most of the phone companies wouldnt even talk to me and all i was trying to do was hit a development API to test some code out. im almost certain you will have to go through a provider if you intend to have messages source # based upon a value you provide rather than a phone you own. i have already grown a deep hatred for telcos due to this exclusive club thing they have going. i will focus all my energy on any opportunity that arises to thwart them. good luck, -nathan On 7/12/07, Brian Dunning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all - I've been looking at a number of the commercial service providers for bulk SMS messaging, most of whom have PHP APIs. But since they are selling something they don't answer my question Is there any (legal, legitimate) way to send an SMS message that can be replied to the desired SMS cell number? Like, if I use PHP to send an SMS to Bob, can I make it appear to come from Jim's cell phone so that Bob can reply directly to Jim normally? The services all require Jim to log into their web site to read any replies. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] SMS questions
Hi all - I've been looking at a number of the commercial service providers for bulk SMS messaging, most of whom have PHP APIs. But since they are selling something they don't answer my question Is there any (legal, legitimate) way to send an SMS message that can be replied to the desired SMS cell number? Like, if I use PHP to send an SMS to Bob, can I make it appear to come from Jim's cell phone so that Bob can reply directly to Jim normally? The services all require Jim to log into their web site to read any replies. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] SMS questions
Brian, Here's another thing that would be nice: A web service to look up the carrier for a cell number. That way you could simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED], though this would still be only a partial solution. This is a lot harder now that numbers are transportable between carriers. from what i can tell this is somewhat of a pipe dream, unless youre a big company that a telco *really* likes and have tons of money. the voip industry which ive been working in for nearly 2 years now has lots of feature like this. the only reason they have those features is because of the sheer nature of voip, which enables almost anyone to provide telephone functionality over the internet. cell phones are a totally different story though and my fear is the only way to get in is a dirty hack they [telcos] are overlooking that if properly exploited could become an open source movement that the phone companies would have to accept. something similar to the open source voip movement but w/ cell phones. i was close to this hack late last year, but its so unreliable that theres no way to go to production w/ it. -nathan On 7/12/07, Brian Dunning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's another thing that would be nice: A web service to look up the carrier for a cell number. That way you could simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED], though this would still be only a partial solution. This is a lot harder now that numbers are transportable between carriers. I was not able to find any service provider that makes the SMS messages appear to come from the sender's cell phone, so they could be replied to normally. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] SMS questions
Here's another thing that would be nice: A web service to look up the carrier for a cell number. That way you could simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED], though this would still be only a partial solution. This is a lot harder now that numbers are transportable between carriers. I was not able to find any service provider that makes the SMS messages appear to come from the sender's cell phone, so they could be replied to normally. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] SMS questions
[snip] ...schtuff [/snip] Please, do not cast aspersions upon the telcos, for those of us who work in the industry cannot even get some of what you are talking about. We have a vendor that provides the SMS part and they will not expose the SMS API to us (not all SMS platforms are equal either) and we paid for the equipment and software. But alas, I do have an advantage. I have reversed engineered some of the items and continue to work on this using PHP. If I can ever make it stable it will be a great kernel for an open source project. I must caution however that work proceeds slowly because the real job keeps jumping in the way. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
