Re: [PHP] What's the going rate for making websites ?
Hi Rene,
I am becoming a little bit concerned about some of the
advice you have been getting about setting a rate for
your work. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong
with charging by the hour, but a lot of times one of
two things happen, either you begin to resent your
customer or they begin to resent you.
I have another method for you to consider about
pricing/costing your work. Try basing your fee on
value. If someone wants a one page site then you look
at how long it will take and ask them a few questions
about what they want to get out the page. If the
client believes that the single page would be the most
inportant part of their interaction with their
audience (I'm being intentionally extreme here) then
would you feel right about only charging 50$ for it?
Personally I would be looking at charging 500$ or even
more.
Another thing to think about where figuring out your
rate is what your time is actually worth. A trimmined
down version of how I have determined my rate in the
past is as follows:
My desired salary: 60,000$
Hours to work per year: 2000h
Now start subtrating from hours to determine billable
hours.
Minus:
Vacation time(3 weeks @ 40h/week): 120h
Overhead time(accounting and such 4h/month): 48h
Networking/Marketing time (figure about 1/3 of your
time): 600h
Sick Days(everyone gets sick eventually): 40h
You also have expenses:
Overhead (space to rent, cd or dvds, computers,
hosting, etc): 20,000$
Advertising(brochures, cards, etc): 3000$
Determine sales needed for the year:
Salary + expenses: 83,000$/year
Determine billable hours
(Total hours - Vac time, sick time, etc):
2000h - 120-48-600-40 = 1192h (actual time you can
spend doing what you do)
Rate to charge:
Needed sales/billable hours
83,000$/1192h = 70$/h
Use that number as a base, initially add 20% more time
to your time estimates and find out what the client
is willing to pay and charge them that or a little
more, they will pay you more.
HTH,
David
--- -{ Rene Brehmer }- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Hi gang
Sorry for asking this question here, but I don't
know where else to ask.
And Goole'ing didn't help me much.
My father-in-law has a friend in Alaska (and I'm in
Canada) that needs a
website done. Not sure what kinda site he wants done
yet, or how much he
needs me to do for him (like webspace, domain
hosting, domain registration,
and such) but for now I've been asked what it'd cost
to get it done.
I'm assuming it's something pretty simple, since
it's just for a motorcycle
club, but he wants a price first ...
What do y'all charge when you do sites for people
??? ... In the past I've
only done pro-bono work (because they usually don't
require much work, so
it's not a problem getting it done while working on
other projects), but
I've never actually done paid work before... It's
more that I just recently
moved to Canada (from Denmark) so I have no feeling
with what the prices
and rates are overhere ...
TIA
Rene
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Re: [PHP] What's the going rate for making websites ?
That would be between $10 and $150 per hour or more. One can easily
find and hire a college kid to slap together some open source programs,
maybe throw a bit of Flash and fancy graphics on a web page and the
project is done for $10 per hour. Of course, there is no cohesiveness
or consistency to the finished website, and there was no reason to
use Flash code, except to say the website uses Flash. All the text is
actually graphics so there is no easy way to update the content. But
the site works and it was done in 20 hours. So what is some of the site
doesn't work if you are not using Internet Explorer under Windows, it
will work for 85% of the people.
For $150+ per hour, you would get security analysis, usability
analysis, browser testing, performance analysis and testing, adherence
to standards, project management, scalability and maintainability.
Perhaps even return on investment (ROI) estimates. The time frame will
be a lot longer than the $10 hour work, but you won't have any problems
tracking someone down to fix bugs and it will encompass things the
client hadn't thought of.
Just a motorcycle club? If it's just some graphics and a discussion
area, that's not too hard. There is a bunch of open source forum
software available. Is there going to be a mailing list? Now that's
including membership and people's personal information. You need to
take security into account, especially SQL insertion, cross-site
scripting, the hosted OS, etc.
Prices charged can be all over the place based on the talent of the
person(s) doing the work. You may choke if someone said they would come
up with a tag line for your company for only $20,000. That's not even a
website, but a one line sentence. But that's about what HBO paid for
It's not TV, it's HBO.. In hindsight, $20k was pretty cheap.
So, what you charge depends on your talent and what needs to be done.
$20-$50 per hour is probably the most common range for someone who
doesn't really do this professionally, but knows they can do a decent
job. You can come up a project price based on your hourly rate.
Bottom line, there really is no answer. I used to charge $75 per hour
when I did consulting during the dot com era and my clients were
telling me I was charging them too little. Some even saying I should
double my rate.
On Apr 3, 2005, at 6:51 PM, -{ Rene Brehmer }- wrote:
Hi gang
Sorry for asking this question here, but I don't know where else to
ask. And Goole'ing didn't help me much.
My father-in-law has a friend in Alaska (and I'm in Canada) that needs
a website done. Not sure what kinda site he wants done yet, or how
much he needs me to do for him (like webspace, domain hosting, domain
registration, and such) but for now I've been asked what it'd cost to
get it done.
I'm assuming it's something pretty simple, since it's just for a
motorcycle club, but he wants a price first ...
What do y'all charge when you do sites for people ??? ... In the past
I've only done pro-bono work (because they usually don't require much
work, so it's not a problem getting it done while working on other
projects), but I've never actually done paid work before... It's more
that I just recently moved to Canada (from Denmark) so I have no
feeling with what the prices and rates are overhere ...
TIA
Rene
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[PHP] What's the going rate for making websites ?
Hi gang Sorry for asking this question here, but I don't know where else to ask. And Goole'ing didn't help me much. My father-in-law has a friend in Alaska (and I'm in Canada) that needs a website done. Not sure what kinda site he wants done yet, or how much he needs me to do for him (like webspace, domain hosting, domain registration, and such) but for now I've been asked what it'd cost to get it done. I'm assuming it's something pretty simple, since it's just for a motorcycle club, but he wants a price first ... What do y'all charge when you do sites for people ??? ... In the past I've only done pro-bono work (because they usually don't require much work, so it's not a problem getting it done while working on other projects), but I've never actually done paid work before... It's more that I just recently moved to Canada (from Denmark) so I have no feeling with what the prices and rates are overhere ... TIA Rene -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] What's the going rate for making websites ?
On Sun, 2005-04-03 at 16:51 -0600, -{ Rene Brehmer }- wrote:
Hi gang
Sorry for asking this question here, but I don't know where else to ask.
And Goole'ing didn't help me much.
My father-in-law has a friend in Alaska (and I'm in Canada) that needs a
website done. Not sure what kinda site he wants done yet, or how much he
needs me to do for him (like webspace, domain hosting, domain registration,
and such) but for now I've been asked what it'd cost to get it done.
I'm assuming it's something pretty simple, since it's just for a motorcycle
club, but he wants a price first ...
What do y'all charge when you do sites for people ??? ... In the past I've
only done pro-bono work (because they usually don't require much work, so
it's not a problem getting it done while working on other projects), but
I've never actually done paid work before... It's more that I just recently
moved to Canada (from Denmark) so I have no feeling with what the prices
and rates are overhere ...
$x = What is your time worth?
$y = How long will it take you?
$cost = $x * $z
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Re: [PHP] What's the going rate for making websites ?
Hello -{,
Sunday, April 3, 2005, 4:51:29 PM, you wrote:
RB What do y'all charge when you do sites for people ??? ... In the
RB past I've only done pro-bono work (because they usually don't
RB require much work, so it's not a problem getting it done while
RB working on other projects), but I've never actually done paid work
RB before... It's more that I just recently moved to Canada (from
RB Denmark) so I have no feeling with what the prices and rates are
RB overhere ...
You really need to have him lay out a scope of work for you. If you
don't know what he want, there's no way you can give him an estimate.
If he wants ten static pages, then quote him that. If he wants a
dynamic site with a forum and shopping cart, then that's a huge
difference in what I would charge.
I don't know what they normally charge there, but here's what I've
seen here in the US for the following under contract for State gov't.
- Roughly 20 pages (customer provides content)
- Dynamic pulling from a MySQL backend (news, current items etc).
- Admin / Editor pages to add / edit / delete the dynamic content
- Supporting Section 508 and WCAG 1.0
- Considered work for hire (customer owns source afterwards)
Cost: $18,000 (Actual figure I saw on a quote).
They weren't even going to provide the hosting space for the site nor
the MySQL backend. They were going to develop basically the framework
for the group to add their own content and the DB tables.
I was pretty stunned when I saw that. According to the people who
showed me the quote that wasn't even the highest one.
I do a lot of work as a project manager for various application / web
development. One thing I will tell you that you need to really drive
home to your customer is sticking to the scope of work. When you both
sign the dotted line as to what is expected from the project make sure
they fully understand that deviations from that will cost more. It
took me about three or four projects where scope creep *positively*
killed me before I learned my lesson. It always starts small, a change
to a color here, moving an image just a bit this way or that, then
they throw a real wrench in the works by deciding they want to do
something like add a whole new layer of people with certain rights in
the application which blows away your existing authentication /
security model.
This person might be a friend (or father-in-laws friend), but I can't
stress the importance of having a contract in place for both of your
protection.
Also make sure both parties understand what's to be paid for and what
isn't. A deliverables model will help with that. i.e. I get this much
money for adding this functionality to the site. This way if something
goes sour you can be paid for the work already completed.
Also, make sure you keep the customer in the loop. After certain
milestones, show them where you're at to make sure you're still on the
same page. This opens you up a bit more to scope creep, but making a
relatively small change in the beginning is a whole lot better than
nearly starting over at the end.
Cheers,
Leif Gregory
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Re: [PHP] What's the going rate for making websites ?
Leif,
Amen, amen and amen.
Miles
At 08:52 PM 4/3/2005, Leif Gregory wrote:
Hello -{,
Sunday, April 3, 2005, 4:51:29 PM, you wrote:
RB What do y'all charge when you do sites for people ??? ... In the
RB past I've only done pro-bono work (because they usually don't
RB require much work, so it's not a problem getting it done while
RB working on other projects), but I've never actually done paid work
RB before... It's more that I just recently moved to Canada (from
RB Denmark) so I have no feeling with what the prices and rates are
RB overhere ...
You really need to have him lay out a scope of work for you. If you
don't know what he want, there's no way you can give him an estimate.
If he wants ten static pages, then quote him that. If he wants a
dynamic site with a forum and shopping cart, then that's a huge
difference in what I would charge.
I don't know what they normally charge there, but here's what I've
seen here in the US for the following under contract for State gov't.
- Roughly 20 pages (customer provides content)
- Dynamic pulling from a MySQL backend (news, current items etc).
- Admin / Editor pages to add / edit / delete the dynamic content
- Supporting Section 508 and WCAG 1.0
- Considered work for hire (customer owns source afterwards)
Cost: $18,000 (Actual figure I saw on a quote).
They weren't even going to provide the hosting space for the site nor
the MySQL backend. They were going to develop basically the framework
for the group to add their own content and the DB tables.
I was pretty stunned when I saw that. According to the people who
showed me the quote that wasn't even the highest one.
I do a lot of work as a project manager for various application / web
development. One thing I will tell you that you need to really drive
home to your customer is sticking to the scope of work. When you both
sign the dotted line as to what is expected from the project make sure
they fully understand that deviations from that will cost more. It
took me about three or four projects where scope creep *positively*
killed me before I learned my lesson. It always starts small, a change
to a color here, moving an image just a bit this way or that, then
they throw a real wrench in the works by deciding they want to do
something like add a whole new layer of people with certain rights in
the application which blows away your existing authentication /
security model.
This person might be a friend (or father-in-laws friend), but I can't
stress the importance of having a contract in place for both of your
protection.
Also make sure both parties understand what's to be paid for and what
isn't. A deliverables model will help with that. i.e. I get this much
money for adding this functionality to the site. This way if something
goes sour you can be paid for the work already completed.
Also, make sure you keep the customer in the loop. After certain
milestones, show them where you're at to make sure you're still on the
same page. This opens you up a bit more to scope creep, but making a
relatively small change in the beginning is a whole lot better than
nearly starting over at the end.
Cheers,
Leif Gregory
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