RE: [PHP] Of Jobs and Certs [long]

2002-07-17 Thread Jay Blanchard

[snip]
I don't know if this is what you want to hear, but I can tell you that as
a rule, I don't hire people who advertise certifications on their resume.

I've found that they correlate pretty strongly with incompetence, to the
point where nothing saves me more time when filtering through resumes than
first throwing away the ones covered with acroyms starting with C or MC.

People who have the skills, demonstrate it through their work experience,
walking through their sample code with me, and their ability to explain
how they would perform a task. People who trumpet certifications
overwhelmingly seem to be people who were unable to advance their careers
based on the strength of their skills, and so chose to resort to a paper
method instead. I'm not saying anything about you here, just suggesting
that you consider alternate means of impressing employers.
[/snip]

+1 Miguel

I recently had the opportunity to hire someone for a basic web developer
position, so I decided to approach the process differently. I decided that
in all fairness I would give each candidate who applied the chance to prove
themselves. I started with a written test with 20 questions, basic web
development, mostly multiple choice. The highest score was a 68, (out of a
possible 100) posted by a recent (less than 6 months earlier) college
graduate with a degree in Computer Science. Needless to say I was shocked! I
saw all sorts of certs attached to this group.

I brought in the top 5 scorers (they took the original test during the
application process, or were sent the test if they e-mailed their apps with
a requirement to complete and return the test is 24 hours ... and these
e-mail resume senders didn't bother to use the 24 given them TO LOOK UP THE
ANSWERS...DUH!) who actually sent URL's for me to look at (I looked at the
source to see if FrontPage or anything such as that had been used - if so
they were eliminated) for 2 additional tests.

I gave each a 5 question verbal exam which included questions about
standards, documentation, identification of code, basic database knowledge,
etc. Each question was worth 20 points. Hell, I even gave a person 5 points
for honestly answering I don't know.. High score: 65 points.

The final test. I gave each a basic visual site layout on paper which
included a small table, unordered list, basic headers, basic paragraph,
etc.. (No dynamic elemnets or db connections)  They were seated at a Windows
computer with a copy of notepad and IE. They were given the address of the
graphic to include. All they had to do was type, save, change to browser,
reload, check their progress and move on. Each correct element (tag) was
awarded 5 points for a total of 100 (20 correct elements). I had another 25
bonus points I would give if any used basic CSS. They had 1 hour to hand
code as close as they could get to what had been laid out on paper.

High Score: 60, none used CSS, but I did see lots of font tags!
Total High Score: 178 (The Guy with the BS in CS above) out of a possible
300 ... 59.3 % (Johnny can't read or write code either :^] )

I didn't hire him...I went to have a beer. Myself and a couple of other app
devs were sitting ROFLOAO about the whole thing. I guess the beer increased
our volume level, because a guy came up and said he heard what we were
saying and that he was a web guy looking for a steady gig. I started
interviewing him right there. No certs, no degree. Went to the office,
looked at sites he had a hand in. He described not only basic HTML stuff,
but CSS, ASP, JavaScript, PHP, a smattering of SQL (in which he clames to be
weak), and a couple of other things. He took the 20 question multiple
(remember, we had had a few ;^] ) and he got a 95. Missed the question about
which tag is absolutely required in an HTML page. He hand coded the example
while drinking a Bud Lite, completed it in 15 minutes, missed a couple of
completion tags (like /li) and used CSS.

Hired him. Took him back to the bar. Happy ever since.

Moral of story? Learn to write code and listen to loud guys in bars. It may
pay someday.

Jay

Football incorporates the two worst elements of American society: violence
punctuated by committee meetings. -George Will

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Re: [PHP] Of Jobs and Certs [long]

2002-07-17 Thread Chris Hewitt

Jay Blanchard wrote:


+1 Miguel

+2 Chris

I found when hiring people in the electronics industry that those who 
were genuinely interested in the subject (as a hobby) and then did a 
course were much better for the company than those that just had lots of 
pieces of paper.

opinion
I find that it is the non-technical managers who like the pieces of 
paper, as they are not technical enough to evaluate on anything else.
/opinion

Chris


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