RE: [PHP] PHP|Con insane pricing
[snip] ... a lot ... [/snip] As someone who has put together conferences before and has/is/will be attempting to do a conference like this in the future I can say that for day pricing it may be slightly high, but just slightly. A conference is an expensive thing, usually offset by sponsors to a degree (if you can get them). You have facilities, meals, 'talent', printing, equipment rental, etc. If your cost is $50k then you need 100 participants at $500 to break even. I have fished a PHP event in Texas around for some time now, and have about 30 folks who are interested in attending. I have done as much as I can to keep the costs low so that the attendance fees can be kept low. But the $50k a year programmer (who loses $10 or more of that to taxes) with a family can ill afford to spend more than a couple of hundred bucks all together attend. Most companies now are tighening their budgets and not paying for these kinds of things. The unfortunate side of this is that many do not get introduced to new items, techniques, products, methods, etc. not to mention the two or three days of being with folks who are in the same professional peer group. My .02 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] PHP|Con insane pricing
Hi, I know a couple people who put together a Con once. It wasn't a large one, it only took up one hotel conference room, and the budget was kept low. The least he could sell tickets for was $250-$300 (somewhere in there) each. That was without him turning a profit. Now, take into account a con like this one wtih keynote speakers (most likely paid), a large staff, a larger room (and probably multiple rooms), more food, more drinks, more advertising, and $495. That really isn't that bad. Expensive yet, but you have to ask yourself if the value is worth it for you. -Dan Joseph -Original Message- From: Chris Sherwood [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 6:19 PM To: Dan Anderson; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PHP] PHP|Con insane pricing Yea its not bad if you dont have a life outside of programming and/or computers if you have kids or other responsibilities then all of a sudden 500$ becomes a very large issue as thats a months groceries or what not... heh yea the average salary is 50K but then when the government takes 40% (if your canadian) that is not a whole lot The pricing seems insane, and geared towards people with lots of spare money... ::snip:: but I'm not going to shell out $495 (the cheapest non-student If you consider the average salary for a computer programmer is probably $40k - $50k (at least in the US) this is not insane. (Heck, it's less then a weeks pay -- even with the plane tickets). I assume this covers hotel rooms (pricey), food (pricey), speakers (very pricey), etc. -Dan -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] PHP|Con insane pricing
Hi, at least I dont live in a police state. I sure do.. Its a joke too.. I hate the patriot act. You don't like illegal search and seizures? What's wrong with you? :) -Dan Joseph -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] PHP|Con insane pricing
I don't know, the Ottawa Linux Symposium runs in Ottawa Canada each year. They usually run about 5 days and rent multiple rooms. The cost to non-students (this year): $325 CAD ($217 USD). That's less than half the price of PHP|Con. Cheers, Rob. On Tue, 2003-09-16 at 09:31, Dan Joseph wrote: Hi, I know a couple people who put together a Con once. It wasn't a large one, it only took up one hotel conference room, and the budget was kept low. The least he could sell tickets for was $250-$300 (somewhere in there) each. That was without him turning a profit. Now, take into account a con like this one wtih keynote speakers (most likely paid), a large staff, a larger room (and probably multiple rooms), more food, more drinks, more advertising, and $495. That really isn't that bad. Expensive yet, but you have to ask yourself if the value is worth it for you. -Dan Joseph -- .-. | Worlds of Carnage - http://www.wocmud.org | :-: | Come visit a world of myth and legend where | | fantastical creatures come to life and the | | stuff of nightmares grasp for your soul.| `-' -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] PHP|Con insane pricing
Hi, Probably depends on location. My friend's was in Chicago, so everything was a little more expensive. -Dan Joseph -Original Message- From: Robert Cummings [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 9:39 AM To: Dan Joseph Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [PHP] PHP|Con insane pricing I don't know, the Ottawa Linux Symposium runs in Ottawa Canada each year. They usually run about 5 days and rent multiple rooms. The cost to non-students (this year): $325 CAD ($217 USD). That's less than half the price of PHP|Con. Cheers, Rob. On Tue, 2003-09-16 at 09:31, Dan Joseph wrote: Hi, I know a couple people who put together a Con once. It wasn't a large one, it only took up one hotel conference room, and the budget was kept low. The least he could sell tickets for was $250-$300 (somewhere in there) each. That was without him turning a profit. Now, take into account a con like this one wtih keynote speakers (most likely paid), a large staff, a larger room (and probably multiple rooms), more food, more drinks, more advertising, and $495. That really isn't that bad. Expensive yet, but you have to ask yourself if the value is worth it for you. -Dan Joseph -- .-. | Worlds of Carnage - http://www.wocmud.org | :-: | Come visit a world of myth and legend where | | fantastical creatures come to life and the | | stuff of nightmares grasp for your soul.| `-' -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP|Con insane pricing
The pricing seems insane, and geared towards people with lots of spare money... ::snip:: but I'm not going to shell out $495 (the cheapest non-student If you consider the average salary for a computer programmer is probably $40k - $50k (at least in the US) this is not insane. (Heck, it's less then a weeks pay -- even with the plane tickets). I assume this covers hotel rooms (pricey), food (pricey), speakers (very pricey), etc. -Dan -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP|Con insane pricing
Yea its not bad if you dont have a life outside of programming and/or computers if you have kids or other responsibilities then all of a sudden 500$ becomes a very large issue as thats a months groceries or what not... heh yea the average salary is 50K but then when the government takes 40% (if your canadian) that is not a whole lot The pricing seems insane, and geared towards people with lots of spare money... ::snip:: but I'm not going to shell out $495 (the cheapest non-student If you consider the average salary for a computer programmer is probably $40k - $50k (at least in the US) this is not insane. (Heck, it's less then a weeks pay -- even with the plane tickets). I assume this covers hotel rooms (pricey), food (pricey), speakers (very pricey), etc. -Dan -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] PHP|Con insane pricing
Yea its not bad if you dont have a life outside of programming and/or computers if you have kids or other responsibilities then all of a sudden 500$ becomes a very large issue as thats a months groceries or what not... heh yea the average salary is 50K but then when the government takes 40% (if your canadian) that is not a whole lot I'm sure that, like most conferences and trainings, the assumption is that people will attend who are either employed in the subject area -- in which case they need to get their employers to ante up -- or are independent contractors in the subject area -- in which case they need to treat it as a legitimate business expense for tax purposes. It's not a friends of PHP sci-fi con... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP|Con insane pricing
--- Dan Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: speakers (very pricey), etc. Unless I'm missing out on all the gold (which is a possibility), speakers usually get a very modest honorarium and their expenses paid. I can't imagine that speakers are the most significant cost of a conference. Chris = Become a better Web developer with the HTTP Developer's Handbook http://httphandbook.org/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP|Con insane pricing
Yea its not bad if you dont have a life outside of programming and/or computers Well most professionals who would go to this conference -- IMHO -- would be doing it because it would be worth while. For instance, I considered going because if it reduced the time it takes for me to develop software by just 1% it would more then pay itself off. if you have kids or other responsibilities then all of a sudden 500$ becomes a very large issue as thats a months groceries or what not... Well there are a number of things to consider. It is a lot about what you value and how you manage your money. (Pick up a copy of one of the Rich Dad's series in your local library / bookstore to see what I mean). heh yea the average salary is 50K but then when the government takes 40% (if your canadian) that is not a whole lot (5 - (.40 * 5) == 3) That's a heckuva lot of money. Especially when you consider you canadians have a cradle to grave socialist system that covers major expenses for us from the US like healthcare. Of course, I don't know your particular situation. What would be reasonable to you? -Dan -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP|Con insane pricing
Unless I'm missing out on all the gold (which is a possibility), speakers usually get a very modest honorarium and their expenses paid. I can't imagine that speakers are the most significant cost of a conference. Well it does depend on the fame (or infamy) of the speaker. If you want Bill Clinton to speak for you be prepared to cough up a couple hundred grand. If you want somebody else well::shrugs:: But remember that all expenses paid part. Let's say a meal costs $5 a person (to be cheap). That's not a lot of money. But rooms can cost upwards of $100 a night (probably at least $60 even with the discount). So that plus food + everything else for the speaker can add up. Of course, I haven't seen the finances of this conference. But I would suspect that $495 is a reasonable price. -Dan -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP|Con insane pricing
Yea its not bad if you dont have a life outside of programming and/or computers Well most professionals who would go to this conference -- IMHO -- would be doing it because it would be worth while. For instance, I considered going because if it reduced the time it takes for me to develop software by just 1% it would more then pay itself off. lol that I agree with if you have kids or other responsibilities then all of a sudden 500$ becomes a very large issue as thats a months groceries or what not... Well there are a number of things to consider. It is a lot about what you value and how you manage your money. (Pick up a copy of one of the Rich Dad's series in your local library / bookstore to see what I mean). ah like with 4 kids I have nothing better to do than run down and grab a book and evaluate my parenting skills. never mind keeping up with the current advances in techniques and technology heh yea the average salary is 50K but then when the government takes 40% (if your canadian) that is not a whole lot (5 - (.40 * 5) == 3) umm I take it you dont have kids and only pay part of the rent or what not? lets see rent is 1200/mo 1200 * 12 = 14400 and umm socialist system.. umm where you been hiding? at least I dont live in a police state. That's a heckuva lot of money. Especially when you consider you canadians have a cradle to grave socialist system that covers major expenses for us from the US like healthcare. Of course, I don't know your particular situation. What would be reasonable to you? -Dan -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP|Con insane pricing
* Thus wrote Chris Sherwood ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): and umm socialist system.. umm where you been hiding? at least I dont live in a police state. ouch :) Curt -- I used to think I was indecisive, but now I'm not so sure. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP|Con insane pricing
ah like with 4 kids I have nothing better to do than run down and grab a book and evaluate my parenting skills. It's not about parenting but about money management. It's pretty cool and shows you how to minimize taxes (so the govn't gets less then 40%). umm I take it you dont have kids and only pay part of the rent or what not? No kids. Full time programmer. Putting as much away as possible and hoping to retire at 40. lets see rent is 1200/mo 1200 * 12 = 14400 With 4 kids I can understand that. and umm socialist system.. umm where you been hiding? I pay for health care and other things out of pocket. Socialism in the form of government handouts should not be confused with communism. at least I dont live in a police state. I hate the patriot act. -Dan -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP|Con insane pricing
Actually the $495 is the conference fee only... It does not include the $160 a night for the hotel room (price of the hotel the conference is at), or food, or transportation. That is just your ticket into the conference. Factor in everything else, and your easily up to $1500-$2000. Using the average salary which was posted in this thread, that is about a months pay after taxes for an average programmer. Jeremy On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 17:12, Dan Anderson wrote: The pricing seems insane, and geared towards people with lots of spare money... ::snip:: but I'm not going to shell out $495 (the cheapest non-student If you consider the average salary for a computer programmer is probably $40k - $50k (at least in the US) this is not insane. (Heck, it's less then a weeks pay -- even with the plane tickets). I assume this covers hotel rooms (pricey), food (pricey), speakers (very pricey), etc. -Dan -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP|Con insane pricing
Jeremy Johnstone wrote: Actually the $495 is the conference fee only... It does not include the $160 a night for the hotel room (price of the hotel the conference is at), or food, or transportation. That is just your ticket into the conference. Factor in everything else, and your easily up to $1500-$2000. Using the average salary which was posted in this thread, that is about a months pay after taxes for an average programmer. What are you talking about? You sleep in your car and have a hot plate running off the cigarette lighter to make Raman noodles! Bring extra spray deodorant. -- ---John Holmes... Amazon Wishlist: www.amazon.com/o/registry/3BEXC84AB3A5E/ php|architect: The Magazine for PHP Professionals www.phparch.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP|Con insane pricing
Let me also say, that I fully think their price is fair. It's right in line with most other conferences (if not cheaper). I was just clarifying that the $495 price is not all inclusive. I wish I would be able to attend, but unfortunately money is tight right now for me, and I can't afford it. I most likely will be speaking at the next one (assuming they accept my submission when it comes time) and money won't be an issue. Jeremy P.S. - In regards to the email below, if you did that you would have to factor in extra gas money, and $10 a day for WIFI access from the hotel. On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 21:23, John W. Holmes wrote: Jeremy Johnstone wrote: Actually the $495 is the conference fee only... It does not include the $160 a night for the hotel room (price of the hotel the conference is at), or food, or transportation. That is just your ticket into the conference. Factor in everything else, and your easily up to $1500-$2000. Using the average salary which was posted in this thread, that is about a months pay after taxes for an average programmer. What are you talking about? You sleep in your car and have a hot plate running off the cigarette lighter to make Raman noodles! Bring extra spray deodorant. -- ---John Holmes... Amazon Wishlist: www.amazon.com/o/registry/3BEXC84AB3A5E/ php|architect: The Magazine for PHP Professionals www.phparch.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
