Re: [pinhole-discussion] Re: translation GORDY EMERY
on 29/11/01 12:14 pm, Joao Ribeiro at jribe...@greco.com.br wrote: Hi Alexis, Paraffin oils have a boiling point in the range of 150 - 300 degrees Centigrade while the wax has one between 50 and 60 degrees. Paraffin wax is used for all sorts of things includeing cheap candles and waxed paper. Actually I think you mean that paraffin has a "melting point" of about 60 o C Camphorated oil on the other hand I would suspect is not strictly necessary. The oil part yes, but the camphor part was probably used as a preservative as some of you may remember camphor balls or mothball ususally consisting of napthalene and sometimes, yes you've guessed it, camphor. Therefore, camphorated oil was probably used as an amplication for preseving perishable non edible goods in the days of moths. Now all of this is some educated conjecture but I hope it is of use to you. I would think that oil would be sufficient. It's hard to say, in the wet plate process they used to varnish the plate with gum sandarac and in the formula they recommend oil of lavender. The oil is added for flexibility and, as I was told, it has to be lavender. I tried oiling papers with sunflower oil, it works fine but it goes rancid over time and smells pretty bad, so maybe the preservative is important. Paraffin (solid thing) works fine but the paper is fragile after, it marks easily (at least thin paper I use with ink jet printers). I have an old formula here that I have never tried, but maybe it works, who knows, it says: "To make paper transparent: Dip the paper in a bath at 80 o C of: Parafin (solid) . 40 gr. Linsen oil 10 gr. After the paper take up all the solution it cans, drain it fast and put it between 2 sheets of blotting paper." Will it work? Who knows, but why does he give the amount of oil in gr and not in ml? This formula dates from 1905, found it in a paper I have here and it has other curiosities. I am just looking up in a dictionary that camphor itself is a whitish, translucent crystaline, pleasant-smelling terpene ketone, whatever that means except that most ketones smell nice from what I can remember at school, used in medicine and in the manufacture of celluloid. Ah ha! There it is, the manufacture of celluloid. Is that not what one is doing when applying the camphorated oil to the paper with paraffin? Probably not. Will sulfuric acid damage the gelatin part of the photo paper? I am working with an Arjo Wiggins Parchment paper called Linaje and they told me that the transparency is obtained by immersing the paper in a solution of sulfuric acid, washing, neutralising and buffering it after. Anyway, whoever got a good formula I'm interested in knowing. Cheers Joao P.S. I have an old formula for turning the wood black, but I don't know how to translate it, maybe Guillermo will help, it says: Extrato de Pau de Campeche .. 15 gr. (what the ... is that?) Cromato de Potassa ... 2 gr. (I believe it is "Alumem de cromo" ) Agua .. 1000 gr. He says to dissolve the Campeche first in hot water and add the Cromato. The solution is dark violet and becomes black in contact with the wood. Dear Joao Of course you are right; I was talking about melting points for paraffin. And thanks for your formulae; I may well use them some day if I want a special prarchment or tracing paper All the best Alexis
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Re: translation GORDY EMERY
on 29/11/01 12:14 pm, Joao Ribeiro at jribe...@greco.com.br wrote: Hi Alexis, Paraffin oils have a boiling point in the range of 150 - 300 degrees Centigrade while the wax has one between 50 and 60 degrees. Paraffin wax is used for all sorts of things includeing cheap candles and waxed paper. Actually I think you mean that paraffin has a "melting point" of about 60 o C Camphorated oil on the other hand I would suspect is not strictly necessary. The oil part yes, but the camphor part was probably used as a preservative as some of you may remember camphor balls or mothball ususally consisting of napthalene and sometimes, yes you've guessed it, camphor. Therefore, camphorated oil was probably used as an amplication for preseving perishable non edible goods in the days of moths. Now all of this is some educated conjecture but I hope it is of use to you. I would think that oil would be sufficient. It's hard to say, in the wet plate process they used to varnish the plate with gum sandarac and in the formula they recommend oil of lavender. The oil is added for flexibility and, as I was told, it has to be lavender. I tried oiling papers with sunflower oil, it works fine but it goes rancid over time and smells pretty bad, so maybe the preservative is important. Paraffin (solid thing) works fine but the paper is fragile after, it marks easily (at least thin paper I use with ink jet printers). I have an old formula here that I have never tried, but maybe it works, who knows, it says: "To make paper transparent: Dip the paper in a bath at 80 o C of: Parafin (solid) . 40 gr. Linsen oil 10 gr. After the paper take up all the solution it cans, drain it fast and put it between 2 sheets of blotting paper." Will it work? Who knows, but why does he give the amount of oil in gr and not in ml? This formula dates from 1905, found it in a paper I have here and it has other curiosities. I am just looking up in a dictionary that camphor itself is a whitish, translucent crystaline, pleasant-smelling terpene ketone, whatever that means except that most ketones smell nice from what I can remember at school, used in medicine and in the manufacture of celluloid. Ah ha! There it is, the manufacture of celluloid. Is that not what one is doing when applying the camphorated oil to the paper with paraffin? Probably not. Will sulfuric acid damage the gelatin part of the photo paper? I am working with an Arjo Wiggins Parchment paper called Linaje and they told me that the transparency is obtained by immersing the paper in a solution of sulfuric acid, washing, neutralising and buffering it after. Anyway, whoever got a good formula I'm interested in knowing. Cheers Joao P.S. I have an old formula for turning the wood black, but I don't know how to translate it, maybe Guillermo will help, it says: Extrato de Pau de Campeche .. 15 gr. (what the ... is that?) Cromato de Potassa ... 2 gr. (I believe it is "Alumem de cromo" ) Agua .. 1000 gr. He says to dissolve the Campeche first in hot water and add the Cromato. The solution is dark violet and becomes black in contact with the wood. Dear Joao Of course you are right; I was talking about the melting point. Thanks for your formulae, I may use them one day when I want to make tracing papers of particular quality. All the best Alexis
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Re: translation GORDY EMERY
- Original Message - From: "ragowaring" >> (or kerosen para ti Guillermo). Oh si, señor Alexis, ahora recuerdo, muchas gracias. Translation: Oh yes, Mister Alexis, now I remember. I remember seeing many years ago "kerosene stoves". The "kerosene gas" was inside an upside down placed reservoir (much like the tank in a water cooler) and by capillary action brought to the tip of a wick, very low tech, much in tune with pinhole (to keep it in topic :-) Guillermo Translation: William
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Re: translation GORDY EMERY
In a message dated 11/29/01 8:20:21 AM, jribe...@greco.com.br writes: << Anyway, whoever got a good formula I'm interested in knowing. >> In the past, using single weight, FB paper, I rubbed the back of the paper with light Crisco oil to make the negative more transparent for dodging and burning. It was moderately successful. My recollection is that it was a very dark negative and I think a lighter one would work better for this technique. In addition, a very beautiful grain resulted. leezy
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Re: translation GORDY EMERY
Hi Alexis, > Paraffin oils have a boiling point in the range of 150 - 300 degrees > Centigrade while the wax has one between 50 and 60 degrees. Paraffin > wax is used for all sorts of things includeing cheap candles and waxed > paper. Actually I think you mean that paraffin has a "melting point" of about 60 o C > Camphorated oil on the other hand I would suspect is not strictly > necessary. The oil part yes, but the camphor part was probably used > as a preservative as some of you may remember camphor balls or > mothball ususally consisting of napthalene and sometimes, yes you've > guessed it, camphor. > Therefore, camphorated oil was probably used as an amplication for > preseving perishable non edible goods in the days of moths. Now all > of this is some educated conjecture but I hope it is of use to you. I > would think that oil would be sufficient. It's hard to say, in the wet plate process they used to varnish the plate with gum sandarac and in the formula they recommend oil of lavender. The oil is added for flexibility and, as I was told, it has to be lavender. I tried oiling papers with sunflower oil, it works fine but it goes rancid over time and smells pretty bad, so maybe the preservative is important. Paraffin (solid thing) works fine but the paper is fragile after, it marks easily (at least thin paper I use with ink jet printers). I have an old formula here that I have never tried, but maybe it works, who knows, it says: "To make paper transparent: Dip the paper in a bath at 80 o C of: Parafin (solid) . 40 gr. Linsen oil 10 gr. After the paper take up all the solution it cans, drain it fast and put it between 2 sheets of blotting paper." Will it work? Who knows, but why does he give the amount of oil in gr and not in ml? This formula dates from 1905, found it in a paper I have here and it has other curiosities. > I am just looking up in a dictionary that camphor itself is a whitish, > translucent crystaline, pleasant-smelling terpene ketone, whatever > that means except that most ketones smell nice from what I can > remember at school, used in medicine and in the manufacture of > celluloid. Ah ha! There it is, the manufacture of celluloid. Is that > not what one is doing when applying the camphorated oil to the paper > with paraffin? Probably not. Will sulfuric acid damage the gelatin part of the photo paper? I am working with an Arjo Wiggins Parchment paper called Linaje and they told me that the transparency is obtained by immersing the paper in a solution of sulfuric acid, washing, neutralising and buffering it after. Anyway, whoever got a good formula I'm interested in knowing. Cheers Joao P.S. I have an old formula for turning the wood black, but I don't know how to translate it, maybe Guillermo will help, it says: Extrato de Pau de Campeche .. 15 gr. (what the ... is that?) Cromato de Potassa ... 2 gr. (I believe it is "Alumem de cromo" ) Agua .. 1000 gr. He says to dissolve the Campeche first in hot water and add the Cromato. The solution is dark violet and becomes black in contact with the wood.
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Re: translation GORDY EMERY
on 28/11/01 7:44 pm, jmm1...@aol.com at jmm1...@aol.com wrote: > I did a Search on Google and found that oil of camphor is considered somewhat > toxic. Only 11% strength is sold in the States, but 20% strength is sold over > the counter in Cananda. Here is the citation: > > http://www.cma.ca/cmaj/vol-152/issue-11/1821.htm > > I'd be careful in poorly ventilated spaces. > John McAdam > > ___ > Pinhole-Discussion mailing list > Pinhole-Discussion@p at ??? > unsubscribe or change your account at > http://www.???/discussion/ Hi everyone again Paraffin for you in the US is paraffin wax as one of you rightly said. Over here in the UK paraffin is a liquid that used to be used for heaters, lamps and oil burning egines, and sometimes still is. Paraffin oil may be what you would call kerosene (or kerosen para ti Guillermo). Paraffin oils have a boiling point in the range of 150 - 300 degrees Centigrade while the wax has one between 50 and 60 degrees. Paraffin wax is used for all sorts of things includeing cheap candles and waxed paper. Entonces, parafina es kerosen y se debería poder comprar facilmente. translation, paraffin is kerosene and should be easy to buy Camphorated oil on the other hand I would suspect is not strictly necessary. The oil part yes, but the camphor part was probably used as a preservative as some of you may remember camphor balls or mothball ususally consisting of napthalene and sometimes, yes you've guessed it, camphor. Therefore, camphorated oil was probably used as an amplication for preseving perishable non edible goods in the days of moths. Now all of this is some educated conjecture but I hope it is of use to you. I would think that oil would be sufficient. I am just looking up in a dictionary that camphor itself is a whitish, translucent crystaline, pleasant-smelling terpene ketone, whatever that means except that most ketones smell nice from what I can remember at school, used in medicine and in the manufacture of celluloid. Ah ha! There it is, the manufacture of celluloid. Is that not what one is doing when applying the camphorated oil to the paper with paraffin? Probably not. I hope I haven't confused things too much hasta luego Alexis
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Re: translation GORDY EMERY
I did a Search on Google and found that oil of camphor is considered somewhat toxic. Only 11% strength is sold in the States, but 20% strength is sold over the counter in Cananda. Here is the citation: http://www.cma.ca/cmaj/vol-152/issue-11/1821.htm I'd be careful in poorly ventilated spaces. John McAdam
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Re: translation GORDY EMERY
This could be. I have found so much is no longer made for use in a drug store. I would try ordering first, but I think one will be out looking for an old drug store. My dad bought this in 1 gal. and 5 gal. for his own medications under the store name. I was born into all this in 1936, and my dad was b. 1900 and lived to 1983 still working about 3 hrs. a week in a drug store. He worked a full 60 years as a R.Ph. Gordy From: "John Yeo" Reply-To: pinhole-discussion@p at ??? To: Subject: Re: [pinhole-discussion] Re: translation GORDY EMERY Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:01:17 -0800 I work in a drug store, and although we don't stock it, the pharmacist can special order just about anything for you. He regularly orders stuff like halfprin, denatured alcohol, etc for customers. I imagine camphorated oil wouldn't be a problem, if it used to be a regular pharmacy item. John > My father was a pharmocist and camphorated oil was sold in a drug store. > But, today it is hard to find a (real) drug store. Most are more of a > department than a drug store. I think to get camphorated oil one must look > for an old drug store. > Gordy ___ Pinhole-Discussion mailing list Pinhole-Discussion@p at ??? unsubscribe or change your account at http://www.???/discussion/ _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Re: translation GORDY EMERY
Ricardo Wildberger Lisboa writes: > Or maybe a homeopathy drugstore. They use to manipulate a lot of stuff in > there. I stopped by one of San Francisco's treasures this morning, Rainbow Grocery, and they sell oil of camphor for $2.50/oz, $25/pint. Don't know if that's exactly what you're looking for, and you can probably find it cheaper, but I think the natural foods/homeopathy connection makes a lot of sense. --Eric
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Re: translation GORDY EMERY
Or you may try to find a store that sell products to manufacturers of cosmetics. > Or maybe a homeopathy drugstore. They use to manipulate a lot of stuff in > there. > > Ricardo. > > - Original Message - > From: Gordy Emery > To: > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 1:37 PM > Subject: Re: [pinhole-discussion] Re: translation GORDY EMERY > > > My father was a pharmocist and camphorated oil was sold in a drug store. > > But, today it is hard to find a (real) drug store. Most are more of a > > department than a drug store. I think to get camphorated oil one must > look > > for an old drug store. > > Gordy > > > > > > >From: Katharine Thayer > > >Reply-To: pinhole-discussion@p at ??? > > >To: pinhole-discussion@p at ??? > > >Subject: Re: [pinhole-discussion] Re: translation > > >Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 23:04:42 + > > > > > >b2myo...@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > > << mix together 8 cm3 of camphorated oil, 4 cm3 alcohol, add 1 cm3 of > > > > paraffin. > > > > Gently apply that mixture on the back of the paper using a batting. >> > > > > > > > > Can someone please translate this for me? > > > > leezy > > > > > > > > > >Was it the cm3 you wanted translated? That's cubic centimeters; like me, > > >you're probably more used to seeing it abbreviated as cc. But I think we > > >may need the paraffin translated as well. My understanding is that > > >Europeans mean something different by paraffin than the white solid wax > > >used for canning that we call paraffin in the US. And where does one > > >find camphorated oil? I assume a batting is like a cotton wad or ball. > > >Katharine > > > > > >___ > > >Pinhole-Discussion mailing list > > >Pinhole-Discussion@p at ??? > > >unsubscribe or change your account at > > >http://www.???/discussion/ > > > > > > _ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > > > > ___ > > Pinhole-Discussion mailing list > > Pinhole-Discussion@p at ??? > > unsubscribe or change your account at > > http://www.???/discussion/ > > > > ___ > Pinhole-Discussion mailing list > Pinhole-Discussion@p at ??? > unsubscribe or change your account at > http://www.???/discussion/
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Re: translation GORDY EMERY
I work in a drug store, and although we don't stock it, the pharmacist can special order just about anything for you. He regularly orders stuff like halfprin, denatured alcohol, etc for customers. I imagine camphorated oil wouldn't be a problem, if it used to be a regular pharmacy item. John > My father was a pharmocist and camphorated oil was sold in a drug store. > But, today it is hard to find a (real) drug store. Most are more of a > department than a drug store. I think to get camphorated oil one must look > for an old drug store. > Gordy
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Re: translation GORDY EMERY
Or maybe a homeopathy drugstore. They use to manipulate a lot of stuff in there. Ricardo. - Original Message - From: Gordy Emery To: Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [pinhole-discussion] Re: translation GORDY EMERY > My father was a pharmocist and camphorated oil was sold in a drug store. > But, today it is hard to find a (real) drug store. Most are more of a > department than a drug store. I think to get camphorated oil one must look > for an old drug store. > Gordy > > > >From: Katharine Thayer > >Reply-To: pinhole-discussion@p at ??? > >To: pinhole-discussion@p at ??? > >Subject: Re: [pinhole-discussion] Re: translation > >Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 23:04:42 + > > > >b2myo...@aol.com wrote: > > > > > << mix together 8 cm3 of camphorated oil, 4 cm3 alcohol, add 1 cm3 of > > > paraffin. > > > Gently apply that mixture on the back of the paper using a batting. >> > > > > > > Can someone please translate this for me? > > > leezy > > > > > > >Was it the cm3 you wanted translated? That's cubic centimeters; like me, > >you're probably more used to seeing it abbreviated as cc. But I think we > >may need the paraffin translated as well. My understanding is that > >Europeans mean something different by paraffin than the white solid wax > >used for canning that we call paraffin in the US. And where does one > >find camphorated oil? I assume a batting is like a cotton wad or ball. > >Katharine > > > >___ > >Pinhole-Discussion mailing list > >Pinhole-Discussion@p at ??? > >unsubscribe or change your account at > >http://www.???/discussion/ > > > _ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > ___ > Pinhole-Discussion mailing list > Pinhole-Discussion@p at ??? > unsubscribe or change your account at > http://www.???/discussion/ >
Re: [pinhole-discussion] Re: translation GORDY EMERY
My father was a pharmocist and camphorated oil was sold in a drug store. But, today it is hard to find a (real) drug store. Most are more of a department than a drug store. I think to get camphorated oil one must look for an old drug store. Gordy From: Katharine Thayer Reply-To: pinhole-discussion@p at ??? To: pinhole-discussion@p at ??? Subject: Re: [pinhole-discussion] Re: translation Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 23:04:42 + b2myo...@aol.com wrote: > << mix together 8 cm3 of camphorated oil, 4 cm3 alcohol, add 1 cm3 of > paraffin. > Gently apply that mixture on the back of the paper using a batting. >> > > Can someone please translate this for me? > leezy > Was it the cm3 you wanted translated? That's cubic centimeters; like me, you're probably more used to seeing it abbreviated as cc. But I think we may need the paraffin translated as well. My understanding is that Europeans mean something different by paraffin than the white solid wax used for canning that we call paraffin in the US. And where does one find camphorated oil? I assume a batting is like a cotton wad or ball. Katharine ___ Pinhole-Discussion mailing list Pinhole-Discussion@p at ??? unsubscribe or change your account at http://www.???/discussion/ _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
