Re: [nepomuk-kde] Plasma activities and Nepomuk
On Friday 07 August 2009, Hari krishna Anandhan wrote: ActivityContext: - Activity name (given by user) - Activity Type the Type is a kind of categorization or even a tag if viewed even more loosely. however, the big question here (as in most of these contextual technology discussions) is: How do we present this to the user? user can be one of: plasmoid developer, end user, ... to the plasmoid developer, having names and types is just further complication and doesn't add one bit of extra information for them to use. both are equally abstract until associated with something relevant to the plasmoid. concrete example: instant messenger widget. the idea of a work type plasmoid is pretty irrelevant unless work type is associated with contacts associated with work. even more importantly, i may not want all my work contacts associated with that activity as it may be a specific work project that i'm representing. this makes putting my Plasma Netbook activity into the Work Activity category not particularly useful. what i want to do (as a user) is to associate groups of users, files, locations, etc with an activity. to do that does not require any sort of categorization of activities. it just takes the usual associate this stuff with that stuff that semantic frameworks (e.g. nepomuk) are meant for. one could create a work entry in Nepomuk and associate a bunch of stuff with that and we can certainly provide a way to associate nodes in the semantic store with an activity ... but from a user interface perspective there's no benefit to having actual activity types or just plain ol' groups of stuff in Nepomuk, and from a code perspective i'd rather keep the amount of things added to Nepomuk for this to be minimized as much as possible as it will only make working with the rest of what Nepomuk offers harder rather than easier. which is why i never suggested categories for activities. it did cross my mind when first designing the in Plasma, but i quickly realized that such categories are: * not useful to everyone (as such will be ignored) * make writing plasmoids more confusing and complex * too restrictive to be real world useful in many (most?) cases * can be accomplished anyways by allowing users to freely associate items in the Nepomuk store with an activity -- Aaron J. Seigo humru othro a kohnu se GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43 KDE core developer sponsored by Qt Software signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: [nepomuk-kde] Plasma activities and Nepomuk
On Friday 07 August 2009 19:39:25 Lukas Appelhans wrote: As you probably know, plasma has the concept of activities. This is something that is supposed to become global concept, and not only plasma-local. Use-cases: - When John switches to the /work/ activity, he wants the favourites in Kickoff/KMenu/Lancelot/Raptor/... to be the applications related to work. +1 In Raptor we can also use the launch count/database per activity... Btw, a bit offtopic, but shall we share favourites between those menus? Why not? -- Evgeny ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: [nepomuk-kde] Plasma activities and Nepomuk
On Saturday 08 August 2009 08:06:26 Hari krishna Anandhan wrote: On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 4:31 AM, Sebastian Küglerse...@kde.org wrote: the big requirements we have in plasma is the ability to have a named context that can be associated with locations, people, documents ... projets, tasks, time periods, ... :) All these are planned to be included in ActivityContext. But, as we would like to evolve the ontology over time with real-life usage (instead of long discussions over the actual structure of the ontology), we would like to start with the bare minimum required to represent an ActivityContext and actually implement it before we start adding other things... So, here is what might be the minimum required to represent ActivityContext: - Activity name (given by user) - Activity Type Sounds like Activity type = some PIMO class, ActivityName = Activity class instance. -- Evgeny ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: [nepomuk-kde] Plasma activities and Nepomuk
Hi Leo, On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 12:02 AM, Leo Sauermannleo.sauerm...@dfki.de wrote: I think you guys still did not check out the links I have posted, because if you did, you would be talking about UserWorkContextThreads which are the high-level user activity you are talking about. Actually I had read them completely! Last time, me and Sebastian Trüg had agreed that ContextThreads (given in that onto) are more aligned with tracking NOPs (medium and long term), and are not currently suited to what we need right now! I am sure we would be using most of it at later phases when we bring NOPs into the picture, but for now we have much simpler needs ;) Cheers, Hari ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: [nepomuk-kde] Plasma activities and Nepomuk
On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Marco Martinnotm...@gmail.com wrote: there was also the idea of plasmoids changing their contents on activity change,that now i suppose would be from activity type change... (and the activity name being just a mnrmonic name for the user) Activity name is unique for each activity and activity type is shared between related activities (as there can be different activities with the same type). So, I would say that plasmoids might use either activity name or activity type depending upon the plasmoid's purpose... - Listing plasmoids - which just list things specific to the acitvity - like contacts, resources associated with the activity, would filter using the activity name - Communication plasmoids - like Mail, etc would depend upon activity type We would have to come up with a list of scenarios, plasmoids and their usage to conclusively answer this ;) Cheers, Hari ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: [nepomuk-kde] Plasma activities and Nepomuk
excellent, when you guys have built the model for plasma, be so nice and post a message to the usercontext mailinglist (usercont...@lists.opendfki.de) best Leo It was Hari krishna Anandhan who said at the right time 11.08.2009 08:31 the following words: Hi Leo, On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 12:02 AM, Leo Sauermannleo.sauerm...@dfki.de wrote: I think you guys still did not check out the links I have posted, because if you did, you would be talking about UserWorkContextThreads which are the high-level user activity you are talking about. Actually I had read them completely! Last time, me and Sebastian Trüg had agreed that ContextThreads (given in that onto) are more aligned with tracking NOPs (medium and long term), and are not currently suited to what we need right now! I am sure we would be using most of it at later phases when we bring NOPs into the picture, but for now we have much simpler needs ;) Cheers, Hari -- _ Dr. Leo Sauermann http://www.dfki.de/~sauermann Deutsches Forschungszentrum fuer Kuenstliche Intelligenz DFKI GmbH Trippstadter Strasse 122 P.O. Box 2080 Fon: +43 6991 gnowsis D-67663 Kaiserslautern Fax: +49 631 20575-102 Germany Mail: leo.sauerm...@dfki.de Geschaeftsfuehrung: Prof.Dr.Dr.h.c.mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) Dr. Walter Olthoff Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes Amtsgericht Kaiserslautern, HRB 2313 _ ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: [nepomuk-kde] Plasma activities and Nepomuk
On 8/8/09, Sebastian Kügler se...@kde.org wrote: On Saturday 08 August 2009 07:34:22 Chani wrote: So, here is what might be the minimum required to represent ActivityContext: - Activity name (given by user) - Activity Type what would you do with an activity type that you couldn't do with just the activity name? You can have multiple activities of the same type, with different names to identify them, for example. It's basically a meta-data mechanism for grouping. there was also the idea of plasmoids changing their contents on activity change,that now i suppose would be from activity type change... (and the activity name being just a mnrmonic name for the user) -- sebas http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org | GPG Key ID: 9119 0EF9 ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: [nepomuk-kde] Plasma activities and Nepomuk
On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 11:22 AM, Ivan Čukićivan.cukic+...@gmail.com wrote: what would you do with an activity type that you couldn't do with just the activity name? The type could be used by the /activity switching/ plasmoid - to group the activites, or to show only a certain type of activity... Activity Type can be used to covey a concrete semantic meaning about what the activity actually is; While 'activity name' can be used to restrict display to information pertaining to the current activity (like emails, people, apps, etc related to that activity), activity type gives another dimension to it which enables certain display changes to happen by default (i.e some defaults can be shared by all your 'official work'-related activities), without any customisation needed from the user. What comes immediately to my mind is... Suppose we have three activities: 1. P's Birthday card - a personal activity in which you are designing a card for your child 2. Plasma Netbook - a community development activity in which you are developing the plasma netbook version 3. Acme Business Project - an official work which you would need serious concentration and should not have any distractions There is a slight difference in the way the desktop can adjust itself for each activity type. Suppose you are doing... Activity 1: When an email or IM comes from any of your friends, fellow OSS developers or anyone, you are notified immediately. The contact plasmoid on the desktop shows your recent or fav. contacts. Kickoff/Lancelot/Raptor shows all apps Activity 2: In this, messages from your fellow developers take precedence and are notified immediately, but emails from other friends can also be indicated in a non-intrusive way, by just showing an unread count. The contacts plasmoid on the desktop shows just the developers. Kickoff/Lancelot/Raptor displays just the apps you need for development work (by default, without any customisation from user; but allows for user customisation, if needed) Activity 3: When you switch to this activity, the system sets your status as busy and queues any messages (other than from your company colleges, if configured) until you have finished with your activity. As you should not be disturbed, the system hides any non-urgent notifications till you finish or switch the activity. Kickoff/Lancelot/Raptor displays just the apps you need for productivity work (by default, without any customisation from user; but allows for user customisation, if needed) Hope I have made my point clear ;) Cheers, Hari ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: [nepomuk-kde] Plasma activities and Nepomuk
On Saturday 08 August 2009, Hari krishna Anandhan wrote: On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 11:22 AM, Ivan Čukićivan.cukic+...@gmail.com wrote: what would you do with an activity type that you couldn't do with just the activity name? The type could be used by the /activity switching/ plasmoid - to group the activites, or to show only a certain type of activity... Activity Type can be used to covey a concrete semantic meaning about what the activity actually is; While 'activity name' can be used to restrict display to information pertaining to the current activity (like emails, people, apps, etc related to that activity), activity type gives another dimension to it which enables certain display changes to happen by default (i.e some defaults can be shared by all your 'official work'-related activities), without any customisation needed from the user. What comes immediately to my mind is... ook, so to recap: i'm thinking about how to fit the thing into plasma... would still activities be associated 1:1 with containments? so a containment like now has associated an activity name and an activity type.. now the name is contained in the Context class that yeah, maybe is an incorrect name but is in the public api unfortunately, so this stuff would be in it anyways, the contextChanged signal would have the new context, that would contain not only the activity name but also the type.. seems sound? missing something in the big picture? :) Suppose we have three activities: 1. P's Birthday card - a personal activity in which you are designing a card for your child 2. Plasma Netbook - a community development activity in which you are developing the plasma netbook version 3. Acme Business Project - an official work which you would need serious concentration and should not have any distractions There is a slight difference in the way the desktop can adjust itself for each activity type. Suppose you are doing... Activity 1: When an email or IM comes from any of your friends, fellow OSS developers or anyone, you are notified immediately. The contact plasmoid on the desktop shows your recent or fav. contacts. Kickoff/Lancelot/Raptor shows all apps Activity 2: In this, messages from your fellow developers take precedence and are notified immediately, but emails from other friends can also be indicated in a non-intrusive way, by just showing an unread count. The contacts plasmoid on the desktop shows just the developers. Kickoff/Lancelot/Raptor displays just the apps you need for development work (by default, without any customisation from user; but allows for user customisation, if needed) Activity 3: When you switch to this activity, the system sets your status as busy and queues any messages (other than from your company colleges, if configured) until you have finished with your activity. As you should not be disturbed, the system hides any non-urgent notifications till you finish or switch the activity. Kickoff/Lancelot/Raptor displays just the apps you need for productivity work (by default, without any customisation from user; but allows for user customisation, if needed) Hope I have made my point clear ;) Cheers, Hari ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel -- Marco Martin ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Fwd: [nepomuk-kde] Plasma activities and Nepomuk
Sorry, forgot to CC nepomuk-kde ml ;( On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 11:22 AM, Ivan Čukićivan.cukic+...@gmail.com wrote: what would you do with an activity type that you couldn't do with just the activity name? The type could be used by the /activity switching/ plasmoid - to group the activites, or to show only a certain type of activity... Activity Type can be used to covey a concrete semantic meaning about what the activity actually is; While 'activity name' can be used to restrict display to information pertaining to the current activity (like emails, people, apps, etc related to that activity), activity type gives another dimension to it which enables certain display changes to happen by default (i.e some defaults can be shared by all your 'official work'-related activities), without any customisation needed from the user. What comes immediately to my mind is... Suppose we have three activities: 1. P's Birthday card - a personal activity in which you are designing a card for your child 2. Plasma Netbook - a community development activity in which you are developing the plasma netbook version 3. Acme Business Project - an official work which you would need serious concentration and should not have any distractions There is a slight difference in the way the desktop can adjust itself for each activity type. Suppose you are doing... Activity 1: When an email or IM comes from any of your friends, fellow OSS developers or anyone, you are notified immediately. The contact plasmoid on the desktop shows your recent or fav. contacts. Kickoff/Lancelot/Raptor shows all apps Activity 2: In this, messages from your fellow developers take precedence and are notified immediately, but emails from other friends can also be indicated in a non-intrusive way, by just showing an unread count. The contacts plasmoid on the desktop shows just the developers. Kickoff/Lancelot/Raptor displays just the apps you need for development work (by default, without any customisation from user; but allows for user customisation, if needed) Activity 3: When you switch to this activity, the system sets your status as busy and queues any messages (other than from your company colleges, if configured) until you have finished with your activity. As you should not be disturbed, the system hides any non-urgent notifications till you finish or switch the activity. Kickoff/Lancelot/Raptor displays just the apps you need for productivity work (by default, without any customisation from user; but allows for user customisation, if needed) Hope I have made my point clear ;) Cheers, Hari ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: [nepomuk-kde] Plasma activities and Nepomuk
be in it anyways, the contextChanged signal would have the new context, that would contain not only the activity name but also the type.. I'd rather have a typeForActivity(String activityName) than having the parameter type as a part of the signal. (since type is defined by the activity name which should be unique) Cheers ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: [nepomuk-kde] Plasma activities and Nepomuk
The activity type can have the following options (these need be set only while defining a new activity type, not while creating every activity!) - Activity Type Name (user given string) - Show apps (in menu) related to productivity, etc - Allow / Disallow / Provide hint about messages from anyone - Allow / Disallow / Provide hint about messages from people of a specific team (apart from those in the current activity) - Requires full concentration, set user status as busy Although this would be perfect to have, I'm concerned about the interface to it. The users are already confused with activities, what would happen if we introduced activity types (as configurable) as well? I'd rather have a 'create a new activity based on the current' than making a template system like that. Ch ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: [nepomuk-kde] Plasma activities and Nepomuk
On Saturday 08 August 2009, Hari krishna Anandhan wrote: On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 1:50 PM, Marco Martinnotm...@gmail.com wrote: would this types something static or just strings given by the user? i fear if it's something static, while it's something that has a more clear semantic value could be something too rigid that won't be used that much in the end? Till now, I was thinking of making them static types. But, now that you bring this possibility up, I think we can make it configurable... ;) The activity type can have the following options (these need be set only while defining a new activity type, not while creating every activity!) - Activity Type Name (user given string) - Show apps (in menu) related to productivity, etc for this the keywords entry in the desktop file of the apps wuld be sooo useful, too bad they are all empty :/ - Allow / Disallow / Provide hint about messages from anyone - Allow / Disallow / Provide hint about messages from people of a specific team (apart from those in the current activity) - Requires full concentration, set user status as busy Anything else ? Some predefined activity types can be shipped by default to ease thing... yeah, this for sure Cheers, Hari ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel -- Marco Martin ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: [nepomuk-kde] Plasma activities and Nepomuk
On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Ivan Čukićivan.cukic+...@gmail.com wrote: Although this would be perfect to have, I'm concerned about the interface to it. The users are already confused with activities, what would happen if we introduced activity types (as configurable) as well? I think the main reason casual users are confused is that they are not able to differentiate virtual desktops with plasma activities. When you see reviews of plasma activities, they inadvertently compare virtual desktops to plasma activities. Ideally they expect those to be coupled together by default...That is how casual users look at it normally... I read somewhere that users adjust themselves to something different as long as it feels different. And, they panic when they see something similar to what they had known already, but it does something entirely different. That is because when they see something similar they expect to use it like they have used before, but as it performs a different function, they just become confused and start to panic... I don't know why I am bringing this now ! But, anyway ... I'd rather have a 'create a new activity based on the current' than making a template system like that. Exactly, the normal users will not be required to temper with the above template features. What we can do is, have an Activities tab in Kickoff/Lancelot/Raptor which would list all the current Activity templates as icons with description. When the user clicks on it, we can start an activity based on that template ;) Cheers, Hari ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: [nepomuk-kde] Plasma activities and Nepomuk
A short reminder: a completly working implementation with applications on top (such as clicked-link history, etc, ...) was done open source complete with ontologies and algorithms: http://usercontext.opendfki.de/ http://lists.opendfki.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/usercontext http://dev.nepomuk.semanticdesktop.org/wiki/UserWorkContext I think this thread is currently reinventing this. best Leo It was Ivan Čukić who said at the right time 08.08.2009 11:13 the following words: be in it anyways, the contextChanged signal would have the new context, that would contain not only the activity name but also the type.. I'd rather have a typeForActivity(String activityName) than having the parameter type as a part of the signal. (since type is defined by the activity name which should be unique) Cheers ___ nepomuk-kde mailing list nepomuk-...@semanticdesktop.org http://lists.semanticdesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/nepomuk-kde -- _ Dr. Leo Sauermann http://www.dfki.de/~sauermann Deutsches Forschungszentrum fuer Kuenstliche Intelligenz DFKI GmbH Trippstadter Strasse 122 P.O. Box 2080 Fon: +43 6991 gnowsis D-67663 Kaiserslautern Fax: +49 631 20575-102 Germany Mail: leo.sauerm...@dfki.de Geschaeftsfuehrung: Prof.Dr.Dr.h.c.mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) Dr. Walter Olthoff Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes Amtsgericht Kaiserslautern, HRB 2313 _ ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: [nepomuk-kde] Plasma activities and Nepomuk
Am Freitag 07 August 2009 21:57:56 schrieb Ivan Čukić: Btw, a bit offtopic, but shall we share favourites between those menus? you're not sharing them? :( There are both pros and cons for this. Pros are easy to recognize. The main con (and the reason why Lancelot only loads the favs from Kickoff on first start, but doesn't share them) is that you could use more than one menu at a time - for different purposes, so you'd possibly want a different set of applications to show up in different menus. The other thing is that my intention is to have some kind of rating system (like the Raptor guys want) while Kickoff doesn't have that. So that's another point we could work together... :) Or tag applications in Nepomuk. +1 as well, we could just add another property to the already existing Application-Ontology we're using in Raptor... Lukas +1 Cheerio ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: [nepomuk-kde] Plasma activities and Nepomuk
Hi Leo, On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 5:52 PM, Leo Sauermannleo.sauerm...@dfki.de wrote: a completly working implementation with applications on top (such as clicked-link history, etc, ...) was done open source complete with ontologies and algorithms: http://usercontext.opendfki.de/ http://lists.opendfki.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/usercontext http://dev.nepomuk.semanticdesktop.org/wiki/UserWorkContext I think this thread is currently reinventing this. Leo, the contexts discussed there are more in line with 'Gnome Zeitgeist', where the actual user operations (called NOPs in nepomuk) done in individual applications are observed and the user context is guessed. But, as per what we have agreed earlier, for the first phase of implementation, we are looking at a more higher-level 'User Activity' which is explicitly invoked by the user, which just remembers the apps or applets the user might use to do his specific activity. I am sure we will cover NOPs at a later phase and use UserContext onto for it, but for a start, let us just stick to ActivityContext at a higher level. I think the plasma team is also thinking in those lines ;) Cheers, Hari ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: [nepomuk-kde] Plasma activities and Nepomuk
Hey! Am Freitag 31 Juli 2009 17:17:32 schrieb Ivan Čukić: A.S. This is a multi-list message, so make sure you reply to both plasma-devel and nepomuk-kde lists. Hi all, As you probably know, plasma has the concept of activities. This is something that is supposed to become global concept, and not only plasma-local. Use-cases: - When John switches to the /work/ activity, he wants the favourites in Kickoff/KMenu/Lancelot/Raptor/... to be the applications related to work. +1 In Raptor we can also use the launch count/database per activity... Btw, a bit offtopic, but shall we share favourites between those menus? Lukas - When Eric switches to the /internet/ activity, he wants the file open/save dialogue to contain 'Downloads', 'Pictures' etc. folders in the places side- panel. - Terry starts KDevelop to work on his project. The rest of the environment switches to /kde development/ activity. Ok, enough with examples. Since the current activity is not only a plasma-thing, and could exist even without plasma, we (plasma devs) decided it should be published through nepomuk. My question here is what is the best way to do it. The most basic thing that comes to mind is a nepomuk resource, which the other application listen to using the sopranoStatementAdded() signal in SopranoModel. The other approach (DanielW pointed it out) is something like the nepomuk service example located in playground (/base/nepomuk-kde/usercontext/service/) So, what is the best way to do this? Cheerio, Ivan ___ nepomuk-kde mailing list nepomuk-...@semanticdesktop.org http://lists.semanticdesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/nepomuk-kde ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: [nepomuk-kde] Plasma activities and Nepomuk
Use-cases: - When John switches to the /work/ activity, he wants the favourites in Kickoff/KMenu/Lancelot/Raptor/... to be the applications related to work. +1 In Raptor we can also use the launch count/database per activity... Btw, a bit offtopic, but shall we share favourites between those menus? you're not sharing them? :( well, I wrote an applications dataengine yesterday. how about you use that and extend it to support favourites? :) -- This message brought to you by eevil bananas and the number 3. www.chani3.com signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: [nepomuk-kde] Plasma activities and Nepomuk
On Friday 07 August 2009 21:31:52 Chani wrote: Use-cases: - When John switches to the work activity, he wants the favourites in Kickoff/KMenu/Lancelot/Raptor/... to be the applications related to work. +1 In Raptor we can also use the launch count/database per activity... Btw, a bit offtopic, but shall we share favourites between those menus? you're not sharing them? :( well, I wrote an applications dataengine yesterday. how about you use that and extend it to support favourites? :) Or tag applications in Nepomuk. (Yes, I know, when you've got a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Let's make that hammer work.) -- sebas http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org | GPG Key ID: 9119 0EF9 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: [nepomuk-kde] Plasma activities and Nepomuk
On Friday 07 August 2009, Lukas Appelhans wrote: Hey! Am Freitag 31 Juli 2009 17:17:32 schrieb Ivan Čukić: A.S. This is a multi-list message, so make sure you reply to both plasma-devel and nepomuk-kde lists. Hi all, As you probably know, plasma has the concept of activities. This is something that is supposed to become global concept, and not only plasma-local. Use-cases: - When John switches to the /work/ activity, he wants the favourites in Kickoff/KMenu/Lancelot/Raptor/... to be the applications related to work. +1 In Raptor we can also use the launch count/database per activity... Btw, a bit offtopic, but shall we share favourites between those menus? well, for one side sharing++ (dataengine/service i suppose,) on the other hand, hmm wouldn't it make sense only if somebody changes the menu every day? :p Lukas - When Eric switches to the /internet/ activity, he wants the file open/save dialogue to contain 'Downloads', 'Pictures' etc. folders in the places side- panel. - Terry starts KDevelop to work on his project. The rest of the environment switches to /kde development/ activity. Ok, enough with examples. Since the current activity is not only a plasma-thing, and could exist even without plasma, we (plasma devs) decided it should be published through nepomuk. My question here is what is the best way to do it. The most basic thing that comes to mind is a nepomuk resource, which the other application listen to using the sopranoStatementAdded() signal in SopranoModel. The other approach (DanielW pointed it out) is something like the nepomuk service example located in playground (/base/nepomuk-kde/usercontext/service/) So, what is the best way to do this? Cheerio, Ivan ___ nepomuk-kde mailing list nepomuk-...@semanticdesktop.org http://lists.semanticdesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/nepomuk-kde ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel -- Marco Martin ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: [nepomuk-kde] Plasma activities and Nepomuk
Btw, a bit offtopic, but shall we share favourites between those menus? you're not sharing them? :( There are both pros and cons for this. Pros are easy to recognize. The main con (and the reason why Lancelot only loads the favs from Kickoff on first start, but doesn't share them) is that you could use more than one menu at a time - for different purposes, so you'd possibly want a different set of applications to show up in different menus. The other thing is that my intention is to have some kind of rating system (like the Raptor guys want) while Kickoff doesn't have that. Or tag applications in Nepomuk. +1 Cheerio ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: [nepomuk-kde] Plasma activities and Nepomuk
Hi all, 2009/8/4 Ivan Čukić ivan.cukic+...@gmail.com: The reason I started this topic now is that we are approaching Tokamak 3 (meeting of Plasma developers / hackaton) and I intend to work on d-bus interface and the nepomuk stuff. Ivan, I would like to clear up something here: I understand that when you are saying context, you mean the Activities the user is doing. But, in true semantic sense, there can be a lot of other contexts also. So, to keep things clear for both the sides, I would request to use the word 'ActivityContext' whenever 'Activities' are intended ;) And, as per our discussions in nepomuk, we haven't yet finalised how ActivityContext is to be represented. Previously we were thinking of using a dedicated ontology for it. But, now we are thinking more in the lines of extending the PIMO to use it. Nothing is final yet... As Sebastian Kügler says, ActivityContext could be minimally represented as a user-given name, a QString. But, I think we might also need a activity type (personal work, official work, code development, leisure, academic work, community work, anonymous, etc). If there is no type, how will you differentiate between the different activities to show diff things as in the usecases you have given... Use-cases: - When John switches to the /work/ activity, he wants the favourites in Kickoff/KMenu/Lancelot/Raptor/... to be the applications related to work. - When Eric switches to the /internet/ activity, he wants the file open/save dialogue to contain 'Downloads', 'Pictures' etc. folders in the places side- panel. - Terry starts KDevelop to work on his project. The rest of the environment switches to /kde development/ activity. These usecases perfectly align with what we have in mind... Now, all we have to do is to brainstorm on the types of activities that might be applicable ;) On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 2:55 AM, Leo Sauermannleo.sauerm...@dfki.de wrote: here is the open source reference implementation, ontologies, documentation, and community site: http://usercontext.opendfki.de/ http://lists.opendfki.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/usercontext http://dev.nepomuk.semanticdesktop.org/wiki/UserWorkContext Leo, the contexts discussed there are more in line with 'Gnome Zeitgeist', where the actual user operations (called NOPs in nepomuk) are tracked. But, as per what we have agreed earlier, for the first phase of implementation, we are looking at a more higher-level 'User Activity', which spans multiple apps or applets the user might use to do his specific activity. I am sure we will cover NOPs at a later phase, but for a start, let us just stick to ActivityContext at a higher level. I think the plasma team is also thinking in those lines ;) On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 4:31 AM, Sebastian Küglerse...@kde.org wrote: the big requirements we have in plasma is the ability to have a named context that can be associated with locations, people, documents ... projets, tasks, time periods, ... :) All these are planned to be included in ActivityContext. But, as we would like to evolve the ontology over time with real-life usage (instead of long discussions over the actual structure of the ontology), we would like to start with the bare minimum required to represent an ActivityContext and actually implement it before we start adding other things... So, here is what might be the minimum required to represent ActivityContext: - Activity name (given by user) - Activity Type Anything else needed ? PS: I am now in both Plasma and Nepomuk-kde mailing lists. So, no need to keep CCing me ;) Cheers, Hari ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: [nepomuk-kde] Plasma activities and Nepomuk
So, here is what might be the minimum required to represent ActivityContext: - Activity name (given by user) - Activity Type what would you do with an activity type that you couldn't do with just the activity name? -- This message brought to you by eevil bananas and the number 3. www.chani3.com signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: [nepomuk-kde] Plasma activities and Nepomuk
what would you do with an activity type that you couldn't do with just the activity name? The type could be used by the /activity switching/ plasmoid - to group the activites, or to show only a certain type of activity... (this is the only thing that comes to my mind at the moment :) ) Cheerio ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: [nepomuk-kde] Plasma activities and Nepomuk
Hi, Note though, that the plasma folks have their own thing in their head regarding this topic, so maybe I am missing someone important who Heh, I am one of the Plasma folks. :) The reason I started this topic now is that we are approaching Tokamak 3 (meeting of Plasma developers / hackaton) and I intend to work on d-bus interface and the nepomuk stuff. Thanks for the links, I'll check them as soon as you can. Cheerio! ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: [nepomuk-kde] Plasma activities and Nepomuk
Ho, this discussion comes up every X months on this list, check out the following leads: * the plasma folks wanted to do it in ?january?, check their mail archives * Hari Krishna Anandhan started discussing about it in August 2008 Scientifically, the NEPOMUK EU project which did all the research to come to the RDF and ontologies also has an off-the-shelf solution for the problem which is well thought. here is the open source reference implementation, ontologies, documentation, and community site: http://usercontext.opendfki.de/ http://lists.opendfki.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/usercontext http://dev.nepomuk.semanticdesktop.org/wiki/UserWorkContext Hari pointed to his page in August 2008, which he worked on a bit and then had to give up maintaining for 6 months, but THIS WEEK hari wrote to me personally, that he is up again and motivated to continue, so you guys should stick your heads together (cc Hari) http://techbase.kde.org/User_talk:Harikrishna Note though, that the plasma folks have their own thing in their head regarding this topic, so maybe I am missing someone important who actually does all the decisions, but I am sure she/he will reply. best Leo It was Ivan Čukić who said at the right time 31.07.2009 17:17 the following words: A.S. This is a multi-list message, so make sure you reply to both plasma-devel and nepomuk-kde lists. Hi all, As you probably know, plasma has the concept of activities. This is something that is supposed to become global concept, and not only plasma-local. Use-cases: - When John switches to the /work/ activity, he wants the favourites in Kickoff/KMenu/Lancelot/Raptor/... to be the applications related to work. - When Eric switches to the /internet/ activity, he wants the file open/save dialogue to contain 'Downloads', 'Pictures' etc. folders in the places side- panel. - Terry starts KDevelop to work on his project. The rest of the environment switches to /kde development/ activity. Ok, enough with examples. Since the current activity is not only a plasma-thing, and could exist even without plasma, we (plasma devs) decided it should be published through nepomuk. My question here is what is the best way to do it. The most basic thing that comes to mind is a nepomuk resource, which the other application listen to using the sopranoStatementAdded() signal in SopranoModel. The other approach (DanielW pointed it out) is something like the nepomuk service example located in playground (/base/nepomuk-kde/usercontext/service/) So, what is the best way to do this? Cheerio, Ivan ___ nepomuk-kde mailing list nepomuk-...@semanticdesktop.org http://lists.semanticdesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/nepomuk-kde -- _ Dr. Leo Sauermann http://www.dfki.de/~sauermann Deutsches Forschungszentrum fuer Kuenstliche Intelligenz DFKI GmbH Trippstadter Strasse 122 P.O. Box 2080 Fon: +43 6991 gnowsis D-67663 Kaiserslautern Fax: +49 631 20575-102 Germany Mail: leo.sauerm...@dfki.de Geschaeftsfuehrung: Prof.Dr.Dr.h.c.mult. Wolfgang Wahlster (Vorsitzender) Dr. Walter Olthoff Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes Amtsgericht Kaiserslautern, HRB 2313 _ ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
