Re: [platform-dev] [ide-dev] New vscode light theme for eclipse

[Aleksandar Kurtakov]

On Mon, May 30, 2022 at 11:28 AM S A 
wrote:

> > Maybe it's the kind of refreshment we need for the IDE to look much
> leaner without really changing anything: shipping a different default
> layout, without toolbar, moving the run and perspective someplace else...?
>
> From what I've been told by developers using Eclipse for the first time,
> they would rather not use it because it's slow and unresponsive. A
> different UI layout might of course make a better first impression, but I
> doubt that impression will last.
>

Actually less visual widgets will most likely speed up the UI part if the
slowness is coming from it and not from the plugin logic.


>
> On Mon, 30 May 2022 at 10:34, Mickael Istria  wrote:
>
>> Thanks Gayan,
>>
>> I've evolved my local workbench to look a bit more like the one you
>> suggested, hiding toolbars, making it fullscreen by default... So far so
>> good.
>> Maybe it's the kind of refreshment we need for the IDE to look much
>> leaner without really changing anything: shipping a different default
>> layout, without toolbar, moving the run and perspective someplace else...?
>> We could even make it default in the SDK as long as it's not breaking any
>> form of functionality/extensibility (sure it's disruptive, but not worse
>> and also not too hard for users to restore to previous state).
>>
>> Cheers,
>> ___
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-- 
Aleksandar Kurtakov
Red Hat Eclipse Team
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Re: [platform-dev] New vscode light theme for eclipse

[Mickael Istria]

>   > Can you please detail what are those things?
>
> Usually I work a considerable amount in the debug perspective,
> inspecting many different files, libraries, having outlines and type
> hierarchies and looking at log outputs with hundred of projects.
>

This would still be possible, the debug perspective button is on the left
column, and you'd get the usual 4 tabfolders.


> Also the Git Stagin is something I have enabled for each and every
> perspective I use, in some rare cases I maximize a view but most of the
> time there are multiple ones that are important to me.
>

The proposal doesn't prevent that, it's really only about hiding/moving
some coolbars and changing colors. The perspective things remain preent and
usable. You could already do it yourself in your workbench: move the
perspective switch, the run buttons, hide toolbar, make fullscreen and you
get most of what Gayan's screenshot shows, except the colors.

So having just one code editor and nothing else beside some collapsed
> projects is something you will almost never see on my screen if I'm not
> trying to came up with the most minimal reproducer in a workspace I have
> just created right now.


This is not what the proposal is about.
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Re: [platform-dev] New vscode light theme for eclipse

[Christoph Läubrich]

As I said, I might be a bit old-school ;-)

> We're actually discussing all that. And personal preferences do matter

Yeah that's why I said, it might be good to enhance the readme, so stoic 
people like me get a better impression what might improve their current 
flow :-)
Also it would make it easier to elaborate possible alternatives (or: 
opinions) on that topic and capture current state.


> So please argue why this would then make Eclipse not working.

I don't said eclipse (!) is not working (anymore) just that my focus is 
getting my(!) work done and for that I don't need a cool icon, the IDE 
must not look "fancy" (or "hype"?) I need (in decreasing order):


- it should work reliable
- it should work fast (not always the case with eclipse...)
- it should be flexible, e.g. customize my UI, help me solve my issues 
(eclipse is quite good)


but if it all works reliable, fast and flexible I really don't care if 
it looks like 90's (would love to see only 'cosmetic' issues on github...)


> Can you please detail what are those things?

Usually I work a considerable amount in the debug perspective, 
inspecting many different files, libraries, having outlines and type 
hierarchies and looking at log outputs with hundred of projects.
Also the Git Stagin is something I have enabled for each and every 
perspective I use, in some rare cases I maximize a view but most of the 
time there are multiple ones that are important to me.


So having just one code editor and nothing else beside some collapsed 
projects is something you will almost never see on my screen if I'm not 
trying to came up with the most minimal reproducer in a workspace I have 
just created right now.



Am 30.05.22 um 10:23 schrieb Mickael Istria:



On Mon, May 30, 2022 at 10:15 AM Christoph Läubrich 
mailto:lae...@laeubi-soft.de>> wrote:


  > * some "hype" colors

?? Searching for "hype" colors gives me some strange results about
make-up vendors :-D


Well hype==VSCode in the IDE world.
But we all know VSCode is also a lot of make up over a traditional 
workbench, so you weren't that far ;)


Don't get me wrong but what are the stuff in the edges then?


Perspective and view shortcuts.

By the way,  Eclipse do not uses toolbars but 'coolbars' already,
but does it change
anything if we do not call them "toolbar" anymore?


The menu still says "Show/Hide Toolbar", we're talking about the top 
toolbar here, with many buttons in it.


Whats the point of this? Do I need to learn all 18.058 Shortcuts in the
future to use Eclipse?


Or use Ctrl+3. Just like people who use VSCode do happily use Ctrl+P.

   > * Moved run shortcuts to the bottom

Whats the advantage of this, beside that it collides with usual Os
(windows / linux) task bar now?


Not really an advantage, more noticeable a side-effect of toolbar removal.

   > * persective switcher collapsed on the left

Seems like a personal preference or is there any advantage?


We're actually discussing all that. And personal preferences do matter, 
but the opportunity is to ship here something disrupting that in the end 
most people are likely to prefer because it looks lighter/fresher.
Having preferences on the left (or somewhere else) allows to remove them 
from toolbar and hide toolbars without loosing perspective switch. It's 
the current convention in VSCode, Theia, (upcoming) IntelliJ...



  > -IMO- without loosing any usability (once users have learned about
Ctrl+3).

I think this is arguable, I need Eclipse to *work* I don't need it to
look great on a screenshot in the web...


So please argue why this would then make Eclipse not working.

So from that screenshot, I'm missing most of the stuff I need to work
with


Can you please detail what are those things?

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Re: [platform-dev] [ide-dev] New vscode light theme for eclipse

[S A]

> Maybe it's the kind of refreshment we need for the IDE to look much
leaner without really changing anything: shipping a different default
layout, without toolbar, moving the run and perspective someplace else...?

>From what I've been told by developers using Eclipse for the first time,
they would rather not use it because it's slow and unresponsive. A
different UI layout might of course make a better first impression, but I
doubt that impression will last.

On Mon, 30 May 2022 at 10:34, Mickael Istria  wrote:

> Thanks Gayan,
>
> I've evolved my local workbench to look a bit more like the one you
> suggested, hiding toolbars, making it fullscreen by default... So far so
> good.
> Maybe it's the kind of refreshment we need for the IDE to look much leaner
> without really changing anything: shipping a different default layout,
> without toolbar, moving the run and perspective someplace else...? We could
> even make it default in the SDK as long as it's not breaking any form of
> functionality/extensibility (sure it's disruptive, but not worse and also
> not too hard for users to restore to previous state).
>
> Cheers,
> ___
> platform-dev mailing list
> platform-dev@eclipse.org
> To unsubscribe from this list, visit
> https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/platform-dev
>
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Re: [platform-dev] New vscode light theme for eclipse

[Mickael Istria]

On Mon, May 30, 2022 at 10:15 AM Christoph Läubrich 
wrote:

>  > * some "hype" colors
>
> ?? Searching for "hype" colors gives me some strange results about
> make-up vendors :-D
>

Well hype==VSCode in the IDE world.
But we all know VSCode is also a lot of make up over a traditional
workbench, so you weren't that far ;)


> Don't get me wrong but what are the stuff in the edges then?


Perspective and view shortcuts.


> By the way,  Eclipse do not uses toolbars but 'coolbars' already, but does
> it change
> anything if we do not call them "toolbar" anymore?
>

The menu still says "Show/Hide Toolbar", we're talking about the top
toolbar here, with many buttons in it.

Whats the point of this? Do I need to learn all 18.058 Shortcuts in the
> future to use Eclipse?
>

Or use Ctrl+3. Just like people who use VSCode do happily use Ctrl+P.

  > * Moved run shortcuts to the bottom
>
> Whats the advantage of this, beside that it collides with usual Os
> (windows / linux) task bar now?
>

Not really an advantage, more noticeable a side-effect of toolbar removal.

  > * persective switcher collapsed on the left
>
> Seems like a personal preference or is there any advantage?
>

We're actually discussing all that. And personal preferences do matter, but
the opportunity is to ship here something disrupting that in the end most
people are likely to prefer because it looks lighter/fresher.
Having preferences on the left (or somewhere else) allows to remove them
from toolbar and hide toolbars without loosing perspective switch. It's the
current convention in VSCode, Theia, (upcoming) IntelliJ...

>
>  > -IMO- without loosing any usability (once users have learned about
> Ctrl+3).
>
> I think this is arguable, I need Eclipse to *work* I don't need it to
> look great on a screenshot in the web...
>

So please argue why this would then make Eclipse not working.

So from that screenshot, I'm missing most of the stuff I need to work
> with


Can you please detail what are those things?
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Re: [platform-dev] New vscode light theme for eclipse

[Christoph Läubrich]

> * some "hype" colors

?? Searching for "hype" colors gives me some strange results about 
make-up vendors :-D


> * no more toolbar

Don't get me wrong but what are the stuff in the edges then? By the way, 
Eclipse do not uses toolbars but 'coolbars' already, but does it change 
anything if we do not call them "toolbar" anymore?


> * no more menu

Whats the point of this? Do I need to learn all 18.058 Shortcuts in the 
future to use Eclipse?


> * Moved run shortcuts to the bottom

Whats the advantage of this, beside that it collides with usual Os 
(windows / linux) task bar now?


> * persective switcher collapsed on the left

Seems like a personal preference or is there any advantage?

> -IMO- without loosing any usability (once users have learned about 
Ctrl+3).


I think this is arguable, I need Eclipse to *work* I don't need it to 
look great on a screenshot in the web...


So from that screenshot, I'm missing most of the stuff I need to work 
with, if I just want files with great shortcuts I most probably would 
have chosen the famous vi over eclipse :-)




Am 30.05.22 um 09:55 schrieb Mickael Istria:



On Mon, May 30, 2022 at 9:47 AM Christoph Läubrich 
mailto:lae...@laeubi-soft.de>> wrote:


All I can see is a screenshot which seems to collapse some things to
the
bottom in contrast to the usual left right?


Also:
* some "hype" colors
* no more toolbar
* no more menu
* Moved run shortcuts to the bottom
* persective switcher collapsed on the left

All that makes UI feel lighter without loosing any functionality, and 
-IMO- without loosing any usability (once users have learned about Ctrl+3).
I think all those are good ideas that deserve to be discussed -maybe 
individually- as things we could bring to the default workbench layout 
and theme.
I particularly like getting rid of the toolbar. As people don't like 
Eclipse icons because they "look like they're from the 90's", it's good 
to hide most of them and much simpler than trying to change them all.


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Re: [platform-dev] New vscode light theme for eclipse

[Mickael Istria]

On Mon, May 30, 2022 at 9:47 AM Christoph Läubrich 
wrote:

> All I can see is a screenshot which seems to collapse some things to the
> bottom in contrast to the usual left right?
>

Also:
* some "hype" colors
* no more toolbar
* no more menu
* Moved run shortcuts to the bottom
* persective switcher collapsed on the left

All that makes UI feel lighter without loosing any functionality, and -IMO-
without loosing any usability (once users have learned about Ctrl+3).
I think all those are good ideas that deserve to be discussed -maybe
individually- as things we could bring to the default workbench layout and
theme.
I particularly like getting rid of the toolbar. As people don't like
Eclipse icons because they "look like they're from the 90's", it's good to
hide most of them and much simpler than trying to change them all.
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Re: [platform-dev] New vscode light theme for eclipse

[Lars Vogel]

Hi Gayan,

I like the blue button bottom line. If you plan to bring some or all
of it to the default theme, I volunteer to test on Linux.

Best regards, Lars

On Mon, May 30, 2022 at 9:47 AM Christoph Läubrich
 wrote:
>
> Maybe it would be usefull to enhance the readmy with some more context
> infos so other peoples beside you and mickael can get what this is all
> about?
>
> All I can see is a screenshot which seems to collapse some things to the
> bottom in contrast to the usual left right?
>
> Maybe even some "before versus after" with a little explanation why it
> is "better" or what are the problems it solve?
>
> But maybe it is also just me being confused because I'm not up-to-date
> with all these fancy dark/light/VS vs Idea vs Eclipse/whatever theme
> things which are seem to be a "must-have" today to write some lines of
> code :-)
>
> Am 29.05.22 um 21:32 schrieb Gayan Perera:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I was asked by Mickael Istria to share this plugin which I worked on to
> > bring vscode light theme styles into Eclipse IDE. Please let me know
> > what you think about it and if it is a good idea to make it part of the
> > default themes Eclipse provides. It's still in early stages, I have only
> > tests on MacOS only and on Windows soon. The syntaxes are only updated
> > for Java.
> >
> > https://github.com/gayanper/eclipse-themes
> > 
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Gayan.
> >
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-- 
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Re: [platform-dev] New vscode light theme for eclipse

[Christoph Läubrich]

Maybe it would be usefull to enhance the readmy with some more context 
infos so other peoples beside you and mickael can get what this is all 
about?


All I can see is a screenshot which seems to collapse some things to the 
bottom in contrast to the usual left right?


Maybe even some "before versus after" with a little explanation why it 
is "better" or what are the problems it solve?


But maybe it is also just me being confused because I'm not up-to-date 
with all these fancy dark/light/VS vs Idea vs Eclipse/whatever theme 
things which are seem to be a "must-have" today to write some lines of 
code :-)


Am 29.05.22 um 21:32 schrieb Gayan Perera:

Hi all,

I was asked by Mickael Istria to share this plugin which I worked on to 
bring vscode light theme styles into Eclipse IDE. Please let me know 
what you think about it and if it is a good idea to make it part of the 
default themes Eclipse provides. It's still in early stages, I have only 
tests on MacOS only and on Windows soon. The syntaxes are only updated 
for Java.


https://github.com/gayanper/eclipse-themes 



Best regards,
Gayan.

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Re: [platform-dev] [ide-dev] New vscode light theme for eclipse

[Mickael Istria]

Thanks Gayan,

I've evolved my local workbench to look a bit more like the one you
suggested, hiding toolbars, making it fullscreen by default... So far so
good.
Maybe it's the kind of refreshment we need for the IDE to look much leaner
without really changing anything: shipping a different default layout,
without toolbar, moving the run and perspective someplace else...? We could
even make it default in the SDK as long as it's not breaking any form of
functionality/extensibility (sure it's disruptive, but not worse and also
not too hard for users to restore to previous state).

Cheers,
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