Re: [PLUG] Guiding Windows user to Linux
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Friday, October 8th, 2021 at 9:54 AM, wes wrote: > On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 9:49 AM Richard Owlett rowl...@cloud85.net wrote: > > > On 10/08/2021 10:49 AM, wes wrote: > > > > > On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 7:02 AM Richard Owlett rowl...@cloud85.net > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > 2. Do recent versions of Windows still have icons titled "Windows > > > > > > > > Explorer" and "My Computer"? > > > > > > In Windows 10, "My Computer" was renamed to "This PC" - however it is not > > > > > > displayed on the desktop by default. Microsoft has gone to the "search > > > > > > for > > > > > > what you're looking for" methodology rather than the old "choose from > > > > > > this > > > > > > set of options" plan. So we are expected to click the Start menu, then > > > > > > type > > > > > > in things like "this" and it will show "This PC" as one of the search > > > > > > results. > > > > > > There is a file-folder icon displayed by default which opens Explorer > > > > > > (what > > > > > > we used to refer to as "Windows Explorer") which will then allow one to > > > > > > navigate to the top level (C:). Disk usage info will be shown right on > > > > > > that > > > > > > screen. > > > > > > -wes > > > > 1. Is it labeled "Explorer"? > > Icons in the task bar don't have labels. Simply pictures. Icons on the > > desktop do have labels/names, but Explorer is not found there by default. > > When I do this, the conversation usually goes something like: > > Me: Do you see a picture of a file-folder along the bottom of the screen? > > Them: No > > Me: Ok, click on the Start menu then > > Them: What's that? > > Me: In the lower left corner of the screen, there is a little picture of a > > flag type of shape > > Them: Ok, I see that > > Me: Click that > > Them: Ok, I did > > Me: What do you see? > > Them: Nothing > > (at this point I start seriously reconsidering my life choices) > > Me: Ok, try typing in the letters T, H, I, S > > Them: Ok, I did that > > Me: Do you see an option come up named "This PC"? > > (fingers crossed, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let this work) > > Them: Yes > > Me: Ok, click on that > > > 2. What does it display by default? > > > > Does the string "C:" appear? > > By default, I believe it displays the user's "Libraries" - it lets them > > choose to enter Documents, Pictures, Videos, etc. On the left will be > > navigation options. I believe some scrolling will be needed to find the C: > > option, which yes, that string literally appears there. There may be a > > "This PC" heading to help them find it. > > I have to give clear instructions in an email as they and I will not be > > > home at the same time for a few days. > > Your expectations may be a little high. I would anticipate some > > back-and-forth before finding the answers you're looking for. > > -wes +1 to that. If the user is not super tech savvy it's best to break the email up. Instead of a single email describing all the steps, breaking it down step by step has been far more effective in my experience. Don't be afraid to start with an email to make sure the file explorer is open, then proceed once that is accomplished. On more than one occasion I've asked people "You know that thing you do to go look at your photos? Click on that". People think in terms that are relevant to them and the whole "Explorer" terminology is completely disconnected from how people use their computers. Make it a conversation and you'll be more likely to succeed. -Ben
Re: [PLUG] Guiding Windows user to Linux
If memory serves you can usually find total HDD space pretty easily though the exact terminology varies from one windows version to the next. Either right click on My Computer or pop open the Disk Manager if that fails. In general, if you open the file manager you should see something on the left-hand panel that says "My Computer" or just "Computer". This will be there regardless of which folder you have open so you can always just click on whatever you use to access your documents or files. Once you find the Computer button, just right click-> properties. This should give you the size of you C:\ drive which is going to represent a majority of the disk. You can approximate total HDD size from there without having to walk someone through accessing the Disk Management tool. On any linux distro its just Terminal-> "df -h" which contrary to popular belief is much easier walk someone through over the phone -Ben ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Friday, October 8th, 2021 at 8:36 AM, Richard Owlett wrote: > On 10/08/2021 09:32 AM, Ben Koenig wrote: > > > Good questions: > > > > 1. No. This is typically distro specific and only applies to end-user > > > > "desktop" distributions. > > That would not be a problem. It would be primarily a common frame of > > reference. And as I would not be the author, it would prompt them to ask > > a different set of questions than I would think of. > > > If such a document does exist I would check with projects like Linux Mint. > > I'll search for Linux Mint info. > > > Debian is unlikely to have what you are looking for. > > > > 2. Yes and no.. theyve been moving stuff around and in many ways windows10 > > > > resembles your average linux desktop. While the terminology still exists > > > > it does not match what you might expect from xp or 7 so I dont recommend > > > > relying on it. > > I need to know how big a drive they have and how much free space. > > Suggestion on how to phrase the question clearly in an email? If they > > and I were going to be home at the same time this weekend I would just > > call them. > > > Whatever you do dont give them gnome or ubuntu. Things won't end well :( > > ROFL! > > Ubuntu is reason I run Debian. > > Gnome3 is the reason I use MATE. > > > -Ben > > > > Sent from ProtonMail mobile > > Thank you. > > > Original Message > > > > On Oct 8, 2021, 7:02 AM, Richard Owlett wrote: > > > > > I've been providing informal support to a local couple for decades. He > > > > > > is a retired pastor, now a missionary. A few years ago they bought a > > > > > > computer from a local big box store. It has problems and customer > > > > > > support has been inadequate. As part of my support for the missions > > > > > > agency, I'll be purchasing a replacement. As I've not used Windows since > > > > > > WinXP and they are pure Windows users I will set it up to dual boot > > > > > > Windows and Debian. I've bought several refurbished machines from a > > > > > > local company and have watched them deal with non-techie customers. That > > > > > > will provide expert Windows support if/when needed. > > > > > > My immediate questions: > > > > > > 1. Is there any site that explains to a non-techie the differences > > > > > > between Windows and Linux and the advantages of using Linux?. > > > > > > Preferably without describing "how-to". > > > > > > [ From my side the advantage is using maintenance tools > > > > > > I'm familiar with.] > > > 2. Do recent versions of Windows still have icons titled "Windows > > > > > > Explorer" and "My Computer"? > > > > > > [ As we'll not be meeting for about a week I'm asking them for some > > > > > > details of their current hardware. I'm suspicious that they may be > > > > > > low on free disk space.] > > > > > > TIA
Re: [PLUG] Guiding Windows user to Linux
Good questions: 1) No. This is typically distro specific and only applies to end-user "desktop" distributions. If such a document does exist I would check with projects like Linux Mint. Debian is unlikely to have what you are looking for. 2) Yes and no.. theyve been moving stuff around and in many ways windows10 resembles your average linux desktop. While the terminology still exists it does not match what you might expect from xp or 7 so I dont recommend relying on it. Whatever you do dont give them gnome or ubuntu. Things won't end well :( -Ben Sent from ProtonMail mobile Original Message On Oct 8, 2021, 7:02 AM, Richard Owlett wrote: > I've been providing informal support to a local couple for decades. He > is a retired pastor, now a missionary. A few years ago they bought a > computer from a local big box store. It has problems and customer > support has been inadequate. As part of my support for the missions > agency, I'll be purchasing a replacement. As I've not used Windows since > WinXP and they are pure Windows users I will set it up to dual boot > Windows and Debian. I've bought several refurbished machines from a > local company and have watched them deal with non-techie customers. That > will provide expert Windows support if/when needed. > > My immediate questions: > 1. Is there any site that explains to a non-techie the differences > between Windows and Linux and the advantages of using Linux?. > Preferably *without* describing "how-to". > [ From my side the advantage is using maintenance tools > I'm familiar with.] > 2. Do recent versions of Windows still have icons titled "Windows > Explorer" and "My Computer"? > [ As we'll not be meeting for about a week I'm asking them for some > details of their current hardware. I'm suspicious that they may be > low on free disk space.] > > TIA
Re: [PLUG] Guiding Windows user to Linux
On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 9:41 AM Richard Owlett wrote: > I was a satisfied user of gnome2. Gnome3 came along with ugly and > annoying defaults and without info on how to get back to what I was used > to. I'm installing Bullseye on one machine this weekend. I'll see if the > gnome tweak tool will give me what I want. To make it a fair test could > you send me your "howto doc"? Here's what I had written, as of April 2020. Your tastes may vary. Documenting how to install Ubuntu to a comfortable configuration: * Install 20.04; * English (US) keyboard; * Connect to a wifi network; * Check "Install third-party software for graphics and wifi hardware ..."; * Erase disk and install Ubuntu; * Select block device; * Select timezone; * Enter name, hostname, username, password (twice); * (loading takes about 9 minutes on Chuwi Lapbook 12); * Reboot and login; * Skip "Connect Your Online Accounts" (why would I do that?); * Decline "Set Up Livepatch" * Opt out of sending information to Canonical (careful, the window can disappear!); * In Settings / Privacy: * opt out of Connectivity Checking unless it is a travelling laptop; * File History & Trash: * FileHistory to Off * Automatically Delete Trash Content to On * Automatically Delete Temporary Files to On * Screen Lock: * Automatic Screen Lock Delay to 1 hour * Open Terminal: * press Windows key; * type "Terminal"; * right-click and Add to Favorites; * click on icon to start; * In terminal, run: * sudo apt update * sudo apt upgrade * sudo apt install aptitude gnome-tweaks gnome-shell-extensions openssh-server git tig * sudo apt autoremove * sudo vi /etc/default/grub * change GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT from "quiet splash" to "net.ifnames=0" * sudo update-grub * sudo reboot * Login * Open Tweaks: * press Windows key: * type "tweaks"; * right-click and Add to Favorites; * click on icon to start; * In Tweaks: * Extensions: * Applications menu to On; * Places status indicator to On; * Top Bar: * Activities Overview Hot Corner to On; * Weekday to On; * Seconds to On; * Week Numbers to On; * Windows: * In Window Focus, select Focus on Hover; * Open terminal, and run: * gsettings set org.gnome.shell.extensions.dash-to-dock autohide false * gsettings set org.gnome.shell.extensions.dash-to-dock dock-fixed false * gsettings set org.gnome.shell.extensions.dash-to-dock intellihide false * In the dock or dash (or whatever it's called, the thing on the left edge, right click and Remove from Favorites: * Ubuntu Software * Thunderbird Mail * In the dock or dash (ditto): * move Terminal to the top * move Tweaks above ? * In Tweaks, under Extensions: * Applications menu to Off; * Desktop icons, select gear icon; * Show the personal folder in the desktop to Off; * Show the trash icon in the desktop to Off; * Windows list to On; * Workspace indicator to On; * Applications menu to On * Start firefox: * Opt out of Mozilla account; * at the bottom of the screen, "Choose What I Share"; * Opt out of: * Allow Firefox to send technical and interaction data to Mozilla; * Allow Firefox to install and run studies; * While still in Preferences: * Search: * Add search bar in toolbar; * Default Search Engine to DuckDuckGo; * Extensions & Themes: * Extension "Firefox Multi-Account Containers" and "Add to Firefox"; * Extension "uBlock Origin" and "Add to Firefox"; * Extension "EFF Privacy Badger" and "Add to Firefox"; * if Facebook is used: Extension "Facebook Container" and "Add to Firefox"; * if Twitter is used: Extension "BetterTwitter" and "Add to Firefox"; * Home: * Unselect "Top Sites"; * General: * Consider selecting "Restore previous session"; * Under "Files and Applications": * Select "Always ask you where to save files"; * In the dropdown menu in the upper right corner, select Customize: * Under "Toolbars", select Menu Bar; * Click on "Done" in the lower right; * Setup containers;
Re: [PLUG] Guiding Windows user to Linux
On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 9:49 AM Richard Owlett wrote: > On 10/08/2021 10:49 AM, wes wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 7:02 AM Richard Owlett > wrote: > > > >> > >>2. Do recent versions of Windows still have icons titled "Windows > >> Explorer" and "My Computer"? > >> > >> > > In Windows 10, "My Computer" was renamed to "This PC" - however it is not > > displayed on the desktop by default. Microsoft has gone to the "search > for > > what you're looking for" methodology rather than the old "choose from > this > > set of options" plan. So we are expected to click the Start menu, then > type > > in things like "this" and it will show "This PC" as one of the search > > results. > > > > There is a file-folder icon displayed by default which opens Explorer > (what > > we used to refer to as "Windows Explorer") which will then allow one to > > navigate to the top level (C:). Disk usage info will be shown right on > that > > screen. > > > > -wes > > 1. Is it labeled "Explorer"? > Icons in the task bar don't have labels. Simply pictures. Icons on the desktop do have labels/names, but Explorer is not found there by default. When I do this, the conversation usually goes something like: Me: Do you see a picture of a file-folder along the bottom of the screen? Them: No Me: Ok, click on the Start menu then Them: What's that? Me: In the lower left corner of the screen, there is a little picture of a flag type of shape Them: Ok, I see that Me: Click that Them: Ok, I did Me: What do you see? Them: Nothing (at this point I start seriously reconsidering my life choices) Me: Ok, try typing in the letters T, H, I, S Them: Ok, I did that Me: Do you see an option come up named "This PC"? (fingers crossed, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let this work) Them: Yes Me: Ok, click on that > 2. What does it display by default? > Does the string "C:" appear? > By default, I believe it displays the user's "Libraries" - it lets them choose to enter Documents, Pictures, Videos, etc. On the left will be navigation options. I believe some scrolling will be needed to find the C: option, which yes, that string literally appears there. There may be a "This PC" heading to help them find it. I have to give clear instructions in an email as they and I will not be > home at the same time for a few days. > > Your expectations may be a little high. I would anticipate some back-and-forth before finding the answers you're looking for. -wes
Re: [PLUG] Guiding Windows user to Linux
On 10/08/2021 10:49 AM, wes wrote: On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 7:02 AM Richard Owlett wrote: 2. Do recent versions of Windows still have icons titled "Windows Explorer" and "My Computer"? In Windows 10, "My Computer" was renamed to "This PC" - however it is not displayed on the desktop by default. Microsoft has gone to the "search for what you're looking for" methodology rather than the old "choose from this set of options" plan. So we are expected to click the Start menu, then type in things like "this" and it will show "This PC" as one of the search results. There is a file-folder icon displayed by default which opens Explorer (what we used to refer to as "Windows Explorer") which will then allow one to navigate to the top level (C:). Disk usage info will be shown right on that screen. -wes 1. Is it labeled "Explorer"? 2. What does it display by default? Does the string "C:" appear? I have to give clear instructions in an email as they and I will not be home at the same time for a few days. Thank you.
Re: [PLUG] Guiding Windows user to Linux
If in front of the machine I would automatically do what you just said. I was looking for inspiration on how to phrase things in an email to a very non-techie ;} On 10/08/2021 10:55 AM, Ben Koenig wrote: If memory serves you can usually find total HDD space pretty easily though the exact terminology varies from one windows version to the next. Either right click on My Computer or pop open the Disk Manager if that fails. In general, if you open the file manager you should see something on the left-hand panel that says "My Computer" or just "Computer". This will be there regardless of which folder you have open so you can always just click on whatever you use to access your documents or files. Once you find the Computer button, just right click-> properties. This should give you the size of you C:\ drive which is going to represent a majority of the disk. You can approximate total HDD size from there without having to walk someone through accessing the Disk Management tool. On any linux distro its just Terminal-> "df -h" which contrary to popular belief is much easier walk someone through over the phone -Ben ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Friday, October 8th, 2021 at 8:36 AM, Richard Owlett wrote: On 10/08/2021 09:32 AM, Ben Koenig wrote: Good questions: 1. No. This is typically distro specific and only applies to end-user "desktop" distributions. That would not be a problem. It would be primarily a common frame of reference. And as I would not be the author, it would prompt them to ask a different set of questions than I would think of. If such a document does exist I would check with projects like Linux Mint. I'll search for Linux Mint info. Debian is unlikely to have what you are looking for. 2. Yes and no.. theyve been moving stuff around and in many ways windows10 resembles your average linux desktop. While the terminology still exists it does not match what you might expect from xp or 7 so I dont recommend relying on it. I need to know how big a drive they have and how much free space. Suggestion on how to phrase the question clearly in an email? If they and I were going to be home at the same time this weekend I would just call them. Whatever you do dont give them gnome or ubuntu. Things won't end well :( ROFL! Ubuntu is reason I run Debian. Gnome3 is the reason I use MATE. -Ben Sent from ProtonMail mobile Thank you. Original Message On Oct 8, 2021, 7:02 AM, Richard Owlett wrote: I've been providing informal support to a local couple for decades. He is a retired pastor, now a missionary. A few years ago they bought a computer from a local big box store. It has problems and customer support has been inadequate. As part of my support for the missions agency, I'll be purchasing a replacement. As I've not used Windows since WinXP and they are pure Windows users I will set it up to dual boot Windows and Debian. I've bought several refurbished machines from a local company and have watched them deal with non-techie customers. That will provide expert Windows support if/when needed. My immediate questions: 1. Is there any site that explains to a non-techie the differences between Windows and Linux and the advantages of using Linux?. Preferably without describing "how-to". [ From my side the advantage is using maintenance tools I'm familiar with.] 2. Do recent versions of Windows still have icons titled "Windows Explorer" and "My Computer"? [ As we'll not be meeting for about a week I'm asking them for some details of their current hardware. I'm suspicious that they may be low on free disk space.] TIA
Re: [PLUG] Guiding Windows user to Linux
On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 7:33 AM Ben Koenig wrote: > > > Whatever you do dont give them gnome or ubuntu. Things won't end well :( Fwiw, my advice is the opposite. With some minor tweaks (literally with the gnome tweak tool, which regrettably you need to install), I would recommend Ubuntu and Gnome for a comfortable desktop and "just works" convenience. I have a group of people (family and friends) that I converted to Linux and they all use it comfortably. I have a little howto doc to remember to tweak things the way I like (basically turning on more visual cues, menus and status bars and such) that I use to set up new installs. Tastes differ, of course. YMMV, of course, but personally, it has ended well.
Re: [PLUG] Guiding Windows user to Linux
On 10/08/2021 09:32 AM, Ben Koenig wrote: Good questions: 1) No. This is typically distro specific and only applies to end-user "desktop" distributions. That would not be a problem. It would be primarily a common frame of reference. And as I would not be the author, it would prompt them to ask a different set of questions than I would think of. If such a document does exist I would check with projects like Linux Mint. I'll search for Linux Mint info. Debian is unlikely to have what you are looking for. 2) Yes and no.. theyve been moving stuff around and in many ways windows10 resembles your average linux desktop. While the terminology still exists it does not match what you might expect from xp or 7 so I dont recommend relying on it. I need to know how big a drive they have and how much free space. Suggestion on how to phrase the question clearly in an email? If they and I were going to be home at the same time this weekend I would just call them. Whatever you do dont give them gnome or ubuntu. Things won't end well :( *ROFL!* Ubuntu is reason I run Debian. Gnome3 is the reason I use MATE. -Ben Sent from ProtonMail mobile Thank you. Original Message On Oct 8, 2021, 7:02 AM, Richard Owlett wrote: I've been providing informal support to a local couple for decades. He is a retired pastor, now a missionary. A few years ago they bought a computer from a local big box store. It has problems and customer support has been inadequate. As part of my support for the missions agency, I'll be purchasing a replacement. As I've not used Windows since WinXP and they are pure Windows users I will set it up to dual boot Windows and Debian. I've bought several refurbished machines from a local company and have watched them deal with non-techie customers. That will provide expert Windows support if/when needed. My immediate questions: 1. Is there any site that explains to a non-techie the differences between Windows and Linux and the advantages of using Linux?. Preferably *without* describing "how-to". [ From my side the advantage is using maintenance tools I'm familiar with.] 2. Do recent versions of Windows still have icons titled "Windows Explorer" and "My Computer"? [ As we'll not be meeting for about a week I'm asking them for some details of their current hardware. I'm suspicious that they may be low on free disk space.] TIA
[PLUG] Guiding Windows user to Linux
I've been providing informal support to a local couple for decades. He is a retired pastor, now a missionary. A few years ago they bought a computer from a local big box store. It has problems and customer support has been inadequate. As part of my support for the missions agency, I'll be purchasing a replacement. As I've not used Windows since WinXP and they are pure Windows users I will set it up to dual boot Windows and Debian. I've bought several refurbished machines from a local company and have watched them deal with non-techie customers. That will provide expert Windows support if/when needed. My immediate questions: 1. Is there any site that explains to a non-techie the differences between Windows and Linux and the advantages of using Linux?. Preferably *without* describing "how-to". [ From my side the advantage is using maintenance tools I'm familiar with.] 2. Do recent versions of Windows still have icons titled "Windows Explorer" and "My Computer"? [ As we'll not be meeting for about a week I'm asking them for some details of their current hardware. I'm suspicious that they may be low on free disk space.] TIA
