Re: [PLUG] Protonmail vs PLUG - The battle rages on
"Running from one vendor to the next isn't going to change anything - You just keep running." Yes, to a point. Is the fight to get this sorted out is worth your time and energy then go forth and fight the good fight. I greatly respect your values and commitment to truth, honesty, transparency and consistency. Throughout my career as a Network Engineer with some multinational telecom companies, I fought epic and ugly battles with sales & marketing teams as I often found myself advocating for the customer. In the end I burned a lot of bridges and the people that loved me when I went in and saved the sale when the customer was threatening to rip & replace our equipment, hated me when I called them out on their BS that caused the problem they had to send me in to fix. Anyway, every app, tool, technology has its strengths & weaknesses and might not work in every situation and there are other secure email providers. I personally think Riseup.net is a more secure service. They provide an internet canary too. Not too many service providers do that anymore to the best of my knowledge. "Riseup positively confirms that the integrity of our system is sound: all our infrastructure is in our control, we have not been compromised or suffered a data breach, we have not disclosed any private encryption keys, and we have not been forced to modify our system to allow access or information leakage to a third party. This canary will be re-signed on the following dates: * February 1 * May 1 * August 1 * November 1" I jumped on Protonmail mostly b'cuz of the Android app but Riseup.net is a regional provider, Seattle based, and very much worth supporting. Your reporting of your problem has got me considering dropping Protonmail and recommitting to my riseup.net account that I never use as it's not as user-friendly.
Re: [PLUG] Powered USB-A hub
On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 3:22 PM Galen Seitz wrote: > On 1/17/23 09:43, Rich Shepard wrote: > > On Tue, 17 Jan 2023, Galen Seitz wrote: > > > >> Sorry, I haven't been following this thread too closely, but if this is > a > >> device you already own, you can look this up yourself. First use lsusb > to > >> find the vendor and product ID values for the USB device of interest. > >> Then > >> use lsusb again to get more information about the device. > > > > Galen, > > > > What a valuable lesson! > > > > # lsusb -v -d 1235:8211 | egrep 'iProduct|MaxPower' > >iProduct3 Scarlett Solo USB > > MaxPower 500mA > > > > This suggests to me that a less expensive hub with fewer ports that has > at > > least 50W published power would work with all three devices. > > FYI, the typical 4 port powered USB 2.0 hub is supplied with a 5V > adapter that is capable of ~2A, or about 500 mA per port. With a USB > 3.0 hub where the per port current limit is 900 mA, the max adapter > current should be higher, but it's unlikely the adapter would be sized > to allow the max current on every port. > > Hubs that have high (>15W) wattage are likely intended to support some > sort of charging of phones/tablets/etc where communication regarding the > larger current capability is communicated through a different mechanism. > > Once again, the above does not directly apply to USB C hubs that support > power delivery. > > Rich, if you have three devices that draw 500 mA, a hub with a 2A > adapter should be sufficient. Look for a hub with a 2.5A or 3A adapter > if one or two of your devices draw 900 mA. > > BTW, I can guarantee you that virtually all of the crazy USB-powered > things you can buy do *not* have USB descriptors. Your Ronco USB fan, > light, and turnip twaddler connect to VUSB (5V) and immediately attempt > to draw whatever they need, regardless of any intended USB constraints. > Buyer beware. > > > galen > -- > Galen Seitz > gal...@seitzassoc.com > I didn't go back and re-read all the comments, but just wanted to throw a few things out. First for USB powered devices/charging (phones, laptop coolers, keyboard lights, etc.), I strongly recommend not using a USB hub for these. If you are not using a data connection, then just get a multi-port USB charger. Look at the available current *per port* then be sure the overall capability supports that much. For example, it may show six ports at 2.5 amps per port, however the total capacity is only 10 amps. That means you cannot expect to get 2.5 amps to each device if you have more than four high current devices plugged in. Computer USB ports (doesn't really matter if USB 2/3/?) typically only source 500 ma. Even most powered USB data hubs are limited to 500ma per port. Check the specs carefully. This is normally fine for most data devices. You definitely want a powered hub for data devices, though, so each one will have its full 500ma available to the device. A non-powered hub must share the entire 500ma available current from the computer with all devices, and some will come up short, giving unpredictable results. Just some thoughts. Michael
Re: [PLUG] PLUG "Marketing" and hosting input welcome
Ben, Great thoughts. Michael, I am open to contributing to PLUG's LinkedIn page. What is its link? You answered one question I had in the other thread. You are interested in alternate hosting from that VMWare-based outfit. For the static website itself (no meeting recording archive), how about https://tinykvm.com ? You get 7GB storage, 384MB RAM, and a big selection of install ISOs for $15/year. You can find similar deals at https://lowendbox.com and https://lowenstock.com/deals Just avoid the OpenVZ stuff and go for KVM if you want full control of the instance. https://meet.jit.si/PDXLinux works great for the livestream. One self-hosting idea is to post the recordings to a PLUG instance of https://joinpeertube.org Linux and Open Source podcast communities are excited about the idea of i person meetups. Once we get official date time and place for the February 2nd meeting, I plan to promote it to https://jupiterbroadcasting.com and https://tuxdigital.com in their Rooms at https://matrix.org. People in Jupiter Broadcasting's West Coast Crew room, for example, have said they are willing to drive pretty far to get to an in-person meetup. It's a great opportunity to grow and sustain PLUG. Thanks, Kevin Kevin On Sat, Jan 21, 2023, at 9:01 AM, Ben Koenig wrote: > The softPLUG meetings have attracted a steady trickle of new users so I'm > going to continue that. I don't think "marketing" is the best term for this > puzzle. It's more of a longevity question. Is PLUG a personal project that > lives and dies with its founders, or do we want to take the next step and > setup something that can outlive everyone? > > My approach to the online meetings came from experience with the Chess > community since I have some experience helping out with the Portland Chess > Club. I basically emulated what they do for their Wednesday "Casual Night" > and it seems to work perfectly. One suggestion I have is to not worry so > much about the actual technology or web platform used. pdxchess has been > around since 1911 and shows no signs of slowing down. This is especially > funny considering the state of the web infrastructure used by all chess > organizations in the NW region. > > Rather than re-invent the wheel, I think we should learn from successful > strategies implemented by similar organizations. > -Ben > > On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 10:09 PM Randy Bush wrote: > > > i am bimodal. $dayjob is a bottom feeding scum sucking sillicone valley > > vendor who has not fired me yet. my research and personal life is quite > > different. > > > > yes, i am on mastodon enoclue@iox.exchange. my twitter accound has been > > dormant for ages. i do not use facebook et alia. > > > > i run my own mail, dns, jitsi, xmpp, ..., usually debian or freebsd. at > > least i no longer coordinate portland's fidonet :) > > > > i do not give a squat about external facing marketing stuff. but i > > admit it would be good if new folk could find portland's geek community. > > > > randy, a surly old curmudgeon, but not as surly as keith :) > > > > >
Re: [PLUG] PLUG February 2nd In-Person Meeting Soft Announcement
Hi, Thank you for organizing this Michael. I am find with contributing $5 for each PLUG in-person meeting I attend if the venue asks. Meeting with other open source enthusiasts is worth at least that much to me. I do not like the idea of wearing a mask these days. But it is in my interest to do it, so that you feel safe enough to keep volunteering in this or a similar capacity for PLUG in the future. Would 30 minutes early be 6pm? What is the address again? Yes, it's time to give https://pdxlinux.org a new look (and ideally auto-redirect to https). I definitely recommend a static site generator. A solid list is available at https://jamstack.org/generators Hugo is the popular elephant in the room and has been used to great affect at https://github.com/JupiterBroadcasting/jupiterbroadcasting.com I'm curious about something smaller and permissively licensed, such as the ISC-licensed just ~500-lines-of-code https://mkws.sh Whatever generator you choose, I bet you could get a lot of help with the site if you host the .md files in a git repo and consider pull requests from the community. Are you satisfied with current setup and cost of hosting, domain, and email for PLUG? Let us know how we can help. Thanks, Kevin On Fri, Jan 20, 2023, at 4:45 PM, Michael Dexter wrote: > Tap tap... is this thing on? > > Hello everyone. > > I have confirmed the venue in Hillsdale and am awaiting final speaker > confirmation. I hope to post all details shortly. > > Topic: Zoneminder from an extremely-knowledgeable local presenter > > > Some facts, policies, and requests: > > I would appreciate a person or two to arrive 30 minutes in advance to > help with chairs. > > The venue officially wants payment but, full disclosure, supposedly PLUG > has unclaimed donations with the State of Oregon. I have started the > paperwork to find out more about this. Regardless of what the venue > eventually costs, I will pass round a hat for donations for the center > as I am very involved with it and trust me, things like new carpet would > be nice. Every bit helps. > > We CAN have food and beverages there if that is of interest to people. > There are table available but I do not think we want to drag them out. > > There is a Hillsdale McMenamins and food cards at the nearby high school > that might still be open but how about "bring something if you like, > clean it up if you spill it". > > As if those topics are not controversial enough, let's talk masks. > > My last two in-person tech conferences and two upcoming ones have strict > masking and testing policies. They also kindly provide both quality > masks and tests. We all want COVID-19 to be over and how about we > continue to take steps toward that goal. > > Until further notice, I would like to enforce a mask policy for everyone > but the active speaker, following the example of my recent conferences. > I will bring a few sealed masks for those who need them and I am doing > my best to have a streaming option for those who cannot risk any > exposure or profoundly object to the mask policy. > > > That all said, I have begun updating the web site and will keep filling > in the various little bits that need to take place behind the scenes. > > Please check the site to see if I missed any of the softPLUG meetings in > the Past Meeting Topics. Speaking of the site... it's dated as heck. I > prefer keep it static but I will not rule out using a site generator or > a SUPER modular HTML5 template. I am looking or one for another project > but I am open to suggestions of a strategy that can last another decade > or so. > > All the best, > > Michael Dexter > PLUG Volunteer >
Re: [PLUG] PLUG "Marketing" and hosting input welcome
The softPLUG meetings have attracted a steady trickle of new users so I'm going to continue that. I don't think "marketing" is the best term for this puzzle. It's more of a longevity question. Is PLUG a personal project that lives and dies with its founders, or do we want to take the next step and setup something that can outlive everyone? My approach to the online meetings came from experience with the Chess community since I have some experience helping out with the Portland Chess Club. I basically emulated what they do for their Wednesday "Casual Night" and it seems to work perfectly. One suggestion I have is to not worry so much about the actual technology or web platform used. pdxchess has been around since 1911 and shows no signs of slowing down. This is especially funny considering the state of the web infrastructure used by all chess organizations in the NW region. Rather than re-invent the wheel, I think we should learn from successful strategies implemented by similar organizations. -Ben On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 10:09 PM Randy Bush wrote: > i am bimodal. $dayjob is a bottom feeding scum sucking sillicone valley > vendor who has not fired me yet. my research and personal life is quite > different. > > yes, i am on mastodon enoclue@iox.exchange. my twitter accound has been > dormant for ages. i do not use facebook et alia. > > i run my own mail, dns, jitsi, xmpp, ..., usually debian or freebsd. at > least i no longer coordinate portland's fidonet :) > > i do not give a squat about external facing marketing stuff. but i > admit it would be good if new folk could find portland's geek community. > > randy, a surly old curmudgeon, but not as surly as keith :) > >
Re: [PLUG] Protonmail vs PLUG - The battle rages on
On Sat, Jan 21, 2023 at 12:12 AM Keith Lofstrom wrote: > On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 02:58:15PM -0800, Ben Koenig wrote: > > Well, it appears that Proton has made their decision and are blaming PLUG > > for this issue. > > > > Yes, that's correct. Proton Mail does not allow third-party services to > > send messages on our behalf. > > It's their party, they can cry if they want to. Protonmail > is useful as a privacy-protecting email service, but is not > useful as a general purpose tool. > > Perhaps we should explore alternatives to Protonmail that are > (1) zealously protective of privacy, and (2) compatible with > mailing lists like plug, and (3) incompatible with masquerade > by spammers ... which I suspect motivates Protonmail's policy. > > From the 10,000 foot level, email seems to be broken, diluted > by spam and abused by criminals, so perhaps we should find > (or invent and sell) better baskets to put our precious > communication eggs in. No clue how; I run my own email > server, and spend way too much time training spam filters. > > Keith > > -- > Keith Lofstrom kei...@keithl.com So I take issue with that approach. Not saying anyone has to change but there's a problem that everyone says they want to fix, but never actually does when the opportunity presents itself.. Protonmail is zealously protective at privacy, that's where it excels. The problem is that their implementation creates ambiguity and fails to take into consideration how email is actually used. My core problem is that if they communicated this effectively then it would be a decision on their end. Sales/Marketing tells me one thing, Support tells me something else. If anything they are literally over-zealous, to the point of embarking on an Inquisition to execute bad emails. Now most people in this situation would say "meh, moving on to someone else's product." But for me there's more to it. Forgive me for bringing politics in, but political systems are nothing more than a management system that reflects the cultures and societies that they manage. And right now much of the "developed" world is having a bit of a problem with things like facts, trust, and basic honesty. I mean, nobody here thinks Bill Gates is a good person, but we've all heard the conspiracy theories, right? It is easy to go and have an opinion here, but it's very different to actually root cause where the confusion and anger comes from. When companies (which are just big groups of people) get into a habit of misleading and in some cases, intentionally lying it creates problems for trust and throws off communication. We had an example of that here on PLUG not long ago. The discussion regarding censorship via Cloudflare was rooted in fear and concern. This invited someone attempting to correct the record, and honestly neither of them were wrong. But we all know there are issues with censorship, whether it be the result of malicious activity, technical failure, or even the fact that someone can, if they felt the urge to cut someone off. I mean right now, Protonmail is silently dropping their own users' emails. And what makes this so strange to me is that they have the technical infrastructure to A) determine that an email might be spoofed and B) notify the user. This is good, make identity verification something that I (the User) am in full control of. Instead they are deciding that in the case of other Proton users, drop the message, tell the recipient nothing, and move on. A potentially legit message disappearing without a trace. No warning, no FAQ, and no marketing material that tells me such a thing may happen? That's sketchy, super fucking sketchy. Email isn't broken, people are. Even those of us who claim to have knowledge in this area have been known to do things incorrectly. Running from one vendor to the next isn't going to change anything - You just keep running. -Ben
Re: [PLUG] Protonmail vs PLUG - The battle rages on
On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 02:58:15PM -0800, Ben Koenig wrote: > Well, it appears that Proton has made their decision and are blaming PLUG > for this issue. > > Yes, that's correct. Proton Mail does not allow third-party services to > send messages on our behalf. It's their party, they can cry if they want to. Protonmail is useful as a privacy-protecting email service, but is not useful as a general purpose tool. Perhaps we should explore alternatives to Protonmail that are (1) zealously protective of privacy, and (2) compatible with mailing lists like plug, and (3) incompatible with masquerade by spammers ... which I suspect motivates Protonmail's policy. >From the 10,000 foot level, email seems to be broken, diluted by spam and abused by criminals, so perhaps we should find (or invent and sell) better baskets to put our precious communication eggs in. No clue how; I run my own email server, and spend way too much time training spam filters. Keith -- Keith Lofstrom kei...@keithl.com
