Re: [PLUG] LiFePO4 UPS?
On Thu, Jan 5, 2023, 16:22 Keith Lofstrom wrote: > I have an ancient Tripplite 700VA UPS, which is briefly > triggered maybe twice a year, and needs a new sealed lead > acid (SLA) battery maybe every two years. ... > New technology LiFePO4 batteries last much longer and are > environmentally cleaner than an SLA, and are shape and > terminal compatible, but they charge differently. ... On Thu, Jan 05, 2023 at 06:38:52PM -0500, Tomas Kuchta wrote: > I came to the same lithium based battery UPS conclusion - there are no > easy, economical, reliable and save choices. ... > My solution is to get and wire external marine deep discharge battery to my > UPS when I need to replace its internal SLA battery. They play nicely with > the UPS and should last about decade for the similar cost to SLA. ... Keith Lofstrom responds: Shades of the past - I did the same thing 30 years ago. I have a "dumb" shoebox-sized device designed to work with marine batteries. It worked so well that I forgot to maintain the batteries, and they sulfated. I can imagine designing a smarter device managed by an Arduino rather than a forgetful owner, but can't imagine finding the time to design and build and "Make Magazine" it. I can also imagine designing an Arduino-ish "power shim board" that sits in between the terminals of a LiPO4 battery and the plugs of a UPS designed for SLA, which transforms voltages and currents and impedances so that the combination "looks like" a SLA battery to the UPS. That costs even more time, which I have better uses for. The Tesla Powerwall is an exuberantly extreme version of that, and I can imagine gubmint/utility mandates/subsidies and variable power pricing with buyback making a ($15K retail?) Powerwall pay for itself in the long-term. OTOH, I don't want a potential medium-yield bomb hidden in the house. Outside, when a resale market for Powerwalls develops, catalytic converter thieves will develop another profit center. Then I must trap them and sell their organs ... not the direction I want to go in life. :-( Ah well. Time to buy a cheap SLA battery, fix up my old SLA UPS, then send a check to Nature Conservancy to assuage my lead-acid eco-guilt. The LiPO4 batteries can power a slightly modified-mobility scooter, which a relative may be needing soon. Keith -- Keith Lofstrom kei...@keithl.com
Re: [PLUG] LiFePO4 UPS?
> > Theoretically, it can provide a signal that tells my > > computers to prepare for shutdown, but it doesn't seem > > to play nice with Linux. Most of the outages have been > > less than 30 seconds, so triggered shutdown is not a > > "must have". However, extra bonus points if the UPS > > /does/ behave well with more than one Linux machine. This part shouldn't be a problem as Linux Network UPS Tools have been around since at least 2008 according to this article that explains how to use them. https://www.linux.com/news/adding-ups-desktop-linux-machine/ Out of curiosity I did a few quick searches on "environmentally friendly" battery backup systems. Current UPS models from APC and Tripp Lite have "eco-friendly" ports which power down when the device connected to them is turned off or in sleep mode but they all use SLA batteries. They also have USB charging ports, which if you don't have a battery bank for you cell phone, would be very useful in a many hours / days long power outage. I use a dirt cheap laptop running Debian that doesn't have any life critical data on it that is plugged into a $2 used surge protector that I daily just pull the power plug out of it while it's running and then just plug it in somewhere else. Obviously, if you've got file servers and databases that are being constantly written to then you want a clean shutdown if there's a power outage.
Re: [PLUG] LiFePO4 UPS?
I bought an APC 1400 back in the summer of 2014. Worked fine but the last power outage before I replaced the UPS battery my cable modem and router lasted about 20 minutes. It was fine for short outages but not few hours one. I installed a new Lead Gel battery in October of 2022. Now it lasts over 3 hours. But whatever keep the coax up offsite the battery dies so the out cable modem goes down. What I do if my wife other people are online I make my smartphone a wifi hotspot and goes through the cellular network instead. I only tried it when only a few neighborhoods were affected. If we have huge power outage we may get cell calls and SMS only. > On Jan 5, 2023, at 13:22, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > > I have an ancient Tripplite 700VA UPS, which is briefly > triggered maybe twice a year, and needs a new sealed lead > acid (SLA) battery maybe every two years. Oh boy, more > toxic waste, and shopping trips, and disposal trips. > > Theoretically, it can provide a signal that tells my > computers to prepare for shutdown, but it doesn't seem > to play nice with Linux. Most of the outages have been > less than 30 seconds, so triggered shutdown is not a > "must have". However, extra bonus points if the UPS > /does/ behave well with more than one Linux machine. > > The load is two computers (250W) and perhaps one of two > screens (another 60W?). Note that 700VA actually means > something like 400W continuously delivered - perhaps > the VA number covers the peak impulse power at computer > startup, or during a power line excursion. > > New technology LiFePO4 batteries last much longer and are > environmentally cleaner than an SLA, and are shape and > terminal compatible, but they charge differently. > I tried one and failed. > > Perhaps there is a warranty-voiding retrofit hack for the > Tripplite, but for safety's sake I prefer to purchase an > Uninterruptable Power Supply designed for LiFePO4. > > Searching on Amazon reveals some $1K units (and a crap-ton > of SLA in response to "Lithium"), more power than I need > and way more dollars than I wish to spend. I don't mind > spending 2X, but not 5X. > > Suggestions? > > Keith > > -- > Keith Lofstrom kei...@keithl.com
Re: [PLUG] LiFePO4 UPS?
On Thu, Jan 5, 2023, 16:22 Keith Lofstrom wrote: > I have an ancient Tripplite 700VA UPS, which is briefly > triggered maybe twice a year, and needs a new sealed lead > acid (SLA) battery maybe every two years. Oh boy, more > toxic waste, and shopping trips, and disposal trips. > > Theoretically, it can provide a signal that tells my > computers to prepare for shutdown, but it doesn't seem > to play nice with Linux. Most of the outages have been > less than 30 seconds, so triggered shutdown is not a > "must have". However, extra bonus points if the UPS > /does/ behave well with more than one Linux machine. > > The load is two computers (250W) and perhaps one of two > screens (another 60W?). Note that 700VA actually means > something like 400W continuously delivered - perhaps > the VA number covers the peak impulse power at computer > startup, or during a power line excursion. > > New technology LiFePO4 batteries last much longer and are > environmentally cleaner than an SLA, and are shape and > terminal compatible, but they charge differently. > I tried one and failed. > > Perhaps there is a warranty-voiding retrofit hack for the > Tripplite, but for safety's sake I prefer to purchase an > Uninterruptable Power Supply designed for LiFePO4. > > Searching on Amazon reveals some $1K units (and a crap-ton > of SLA in response to "Lithium"), more power than I need > and way more dollars than I wish to spend. I don't mind > spending 2X, but not 5X. > > Suggestions? > . I came to the same lithium based battery UPS conclusion - there are no easy, economical, reliable and save choices. My solution is to get and wire external marine deep discharge battery to my UPS when I need to replace its internal SLA battery. They play nicely with the UPS and should last about decade for the similar cost to SLA. Basically, I am kicking the can down the road! Maybe, I will be able to UPS the whole house with an EV if/when I get one some years down the road and forget about these crappy, expensive UPSs. - T >
[PLUG] LiFePO4 UPS?
I have an ancient Tripplite 700VA UPS, which is briefly triggered maybe twice a year, and needs a new sealed lead acid (SLA) battery maybe every two years. Oh boy, more toxic waste, and shopping trips, and disposal trips. Theoretically, it can provide a signal that tells my computers to prepare for shutdown, but it doesn't seem to play nice with Linux. Most of the outages have been less than 30 seconds, so triggered shutdown is not a "must have". However, extra bonus points if the UPS /does/ behave well with more than one Linux machine. The load is two computers (250W) and perhaps one of two screens (another 60W?). Note that 700VA actually means something like 400W continuously delivered - perhaps the VA number covers the peak impulse power at computer startup, or during a power line excursion. New technology LiFePO4 batteries last much longer and are environmentally cleaner than an SLA, and are shape and terminal compatible, but they charge differently. I tried one and failed. Perhaps there is a warranty-voiding retrofit hack for the Tripplite, but for safety's sake I prefer to purchase an Uninterruptable Power Supply designed for LiFePO4. Searching on Amazon reveals some $1K units (and a crap-ton of SLA in response to "Lithium"), more power than I need and way more dollars than I wish to spend. I don't mind spending 2X, but not 5X. Suggestions? Keith -- Keith Lofstrom kei...@keithl.com
