Re: fonts/terminus-font: Add `centered_tilde' flavor
Sun, 24 Apr 2016 16:26:17 +0200 LÉVAI Dániel> Stuart Henderson @ 2016-04-24T02:57:12 +0200: > > On 2016/04/23 16:34, patrick keshishian wrote: > > > + symquotes- Build with symmetric single quotes. > > > + centered_tilde - Build with centered ASCII tilde. > > > + symquotes-centered_tilde - Build with both modifications. > > > > I think this last line is a little confusing, it suggests there's > > something unusual about this port - and if you're building it from > > ports it won't work like that anyway - you would specify it like > > `env FLAVOR="symquotes centered_tilde" make'. > > > > Looking at the post-patch target, we don't actually need it at > > all, see the diff below. I also included upstream's patch names in > > DESCR in case somebody is looking for a variant by that name, and > > tweaked the text above a little. > > > > Although I am still in two minds about this strange spelling of > > the word that most English-speakers in the world know as "centred". To evade spelling debate mostly, the tilde is in the middle regarding top/middle/bottom position, and not left/centre/right orientation :-) Just an idea to exchange the centre and middle for less ambiguity and quick address of screen placement position as top/mid/bot-L/C/R, maybe counter intuitive at first, but here middle seems better suited to me. > > OK with you Daniel? (and I guess, as maintainer, you get final > > choice on spelling ;-) > > I'm okay with whatever makes this comfortable for users. As a person of the Cyrillic script and more than 33 yrs PC usage, here is a list of what's historically correct and widely accepted the norm: ao1 - the default as is, ao2 is UNREADABLE dv2 - more readable and similar to cursive handwriting ge2 - same, although ge1 is not wrong, ge2 is much much better gq2 - preferred for text only (manuals) and gq1 is better for coding ij1 - ij1 is much more readable! should be the default ka2 - similar to latin k, this is much more readable should be default ll2 - preferred hugely, this is important for legibility td1 - proposed default here http://terminus-font.sourceforge.net/ br1 - looks much more pronounced > But I'm not a native speaker, and I don't want to step on anyone's toes, > so please decide on the spelling :) So, how about mid_tilde flavour being the name and the default as well? It looks the tilde is in the middle vertically on the glass console too. Regards, Anton > > Index: Makefile > > === > > RCS file: /cvs/ports/fonts/Makefile,v > > retrieving revision 1.31 > > diff -u -p -r1.31 Makefile > > --- Makefile10 Mar 2016 07:22:46 - 1.31 > > +++ Makefile24 Apr 2016 00:48:51 - > > @@ -56,6 +56,9 @@ > > SUBDIR += spranq-ecofont-ttf > > SUBDIR += symbola-ttf > > SUBDIR += terminus-font > > + SUBDIR += terminus-font,symquotes > > + SUBDIR += terminus-font,symquotes,centered_tilde > > + SUBDIR += terminus-font,centered_tilde > > SUBDIR += ubuntu-fonts > > SUBDIR += un-fonts > > SUBDIR += zh-arphicttf > > Index: terminus-font/Makefile > > === > > RCS file: /cvs/ports/fonts/terminus-font/Makefile,v > > retrieving revision 1.10 > > diff -u -p -r1.10 Makefile > > --- terminus-font/Makefile 13 Nov 2015 20:18:25 - 1.10 > > +++ terminus-font/Makefile 24 Apr 2016 00:48:51 - > > @@ -3,6 +3,7 @@ > > COMMENT = fixed width fonts especially for long hacking sessions > > > > DISTNAME = terminus-font-4.40 > > +REVISION = 0 > > CATEGORIES = fonts x11 > > > > HOMEPAGE = http://terminus-font.sourceforge.net/ > > @@ -24,13 +25,18 @@ FONTDIR = ${PREFIX}/share/fonts/terminu > > > > USE_GMAKE =Yes > > > > -FLAVORS = symquotes > > +FLAVORS = symquotes centered_tilde > > FLAVOR ?= > > > > +.if ${FLAVOR:Mcentered_tilde} > > +FLAVOR_PATCHES += ${WRKSRC}/alt/td1.diff > > +.endif > > + > > .if ${FLAVOR:Msymquotes} > > -post-patch: > > - ${PATCH} -d ${WRKSRC} < ${WRKSRC}/alt/gq2.diff > > +FLAVOR_PATCHES += ${WRKSRC}/alt/gq2.diff > > .endif > > + > > +PATCH_LIST = patch-* ${FLAVOR_PATCHES} > > > > do-install: > > ${GZIP_CMD} ${WRKSRC}/*.pcf > > Index: terminus-font/pkg/DESCR > > === > > RCS file: /cvs/ports/fonts/terminus-font/pkg/DESCR,v > > retrieving revision 1.1.1.1 > > diff -u -p -r1.1.1.1 DESCR > > --- terminus-font/pkg/DESCR 19 Jul 2011 09:16:08 - 1.1.1.1 > > +++ terminus-font/pkg/DESCR 24 Apr 2016 00:48:51 - > > @@ -1,5 +1,6 @@ > > The Terminus font is a complete set of fixed-size fonts designed > > -especially for the usage in terms. > > +especially for use in terminals. > > > > Flavors: > > - symquotes - Build with symmetric single quotes. > > +
Re: fonts/terminus-font: Add `centered_tilde' flavor
Stuart Henderson @ 2016-04-24T02:57:12 +0200: > On 2016/04/23 16:34, patrick keshishian wrote: > > + symquotes- Build with symmetric single quotes. > > + centered_tilde - Build with centered ASCII tilde. > > + symquotes-centered_tilde - Build with both modifications. > > I think this last line is a little confusing, it suggests there's > something unusual about this port - and if you're building it from > ports it won't work like that anyway - you would specify it like > `env FLAVOR="symquotes centered_tilde" make'. > > Looking at the post-patch target, we don't actually need it at > all, see the diff below. I also included upstream's patch names in > DESCR in case somebody is looking for a variant by that name, and > tweaked the text above a little. > > Although I am still in two minds about this strange spelling of > the word that most English-speakers in the world know as "centred". > > OK with you Daniel? (and I guess, as maintainer, you get final > choice on spelling ;-) I'm okay with whatever makes this comfortable for users. But I'm not a native speaker, and I don't want to step on anyone's toes, so please decide on the spelling :) Daniel > Index: Makefile > === > RCS file: /cvs/ports/fonts/Makefile,v > retrieving revision 1.31 > diff -u -p -r1.31 Makefile > --- Makefile 10 Mar 2016 07:22:46 - 1.31 > +++ Makefile 24 Apr 2016 00:48:51 - > @@ -56,6 +56,9 @@ > SUBDIR += spranq-ecofont-ttf > SUBDIR += symbola-ttf > SUBDIR += terminus-font > + SUBDIR += terminus-font,symquotes > + SUBDIR += terminus-font,symquotes,centered_tilde > + SUBDIR += terminus-font,centered_tilde > SUBDIR += ubuntu-fonts > SUBDIR += un-fonts > SUBDIR += zh-arphicttf > Index: terminus-font/Makefile > === > RCS file: /cvs/ports/fonts/terminus-font/Makefile,v > retrieving revision 1.10 > diff -u -p -r1.10 Makefile > --- terminus-font/Makefile13 Nov 2015 20:18:25 - 1.10 > +++ terminus-font/Makefile24 Apr 2016 00:48:51 - > @@ -3,6 +3,7 @@ > COMMENT =fixed width fonts especially for long hacking sessions > > DISTNAME = terminus-font-4.40 > +REVISION = 0 > CATEGORIES = fonts x11 > > HOMEPAGE = http://terminus-font.sourceforge.net/ > @@ -24,13 +25,18 @@ FONTDIR = ${PREFIX}/share/fonts/terminu > > USE_GMAKE = Yes > > -FLAVORS =symquotes > +FLAVORS =symquotes centered_tilde > FLAVOR ?= > > +.if ${FLAVOR:Mcentered_tilde} > +FLAVOR_PATCHES += ${WRKSRC}/alt/td1.diff > +.endif > + > .if ${FLAVOR:Msymquotes} > -post-patch: > - ${PATCH} -d ${WRKSRC} < ${WRKSRC}/alt/gq2.diff > +FLAVOR_PATCHES += ${WRKSRC}/alt/gq2.diff > .endif > + > +PATCH_LIST = patch-* ${FLAVOR_PATCHES} > > do-install: > ${GZIP_CMD} ${WRKSRC}/*.pcf > Index: terminus-font/pkg/DESCR > === > RCS file: /cvs/ports/fonts/terminus-font/pkg/DESCR,v > retrieving revision 1.1.1.1 > diff -u -p -r1.1.1.1 DESCR > --- terminus-font/pkg/DESCR 19 Jul 2011 09:16:08 - 1.1.1.1 > +++ terminus-font/pkg/DESCR 24 Apr 2016 00:48:51 - > @@ -1,5 +1,6 @@ > The Terminus font is a complete set of fixed-size fonts designed > -especially for the usage in terms. > +especially for use in terminals. > > Flavors: > - symquotes - Build with symmetric single quotes. > + symquotes - Build with symmetric single quotes (gq2) > + centered_tilde - Build with centered ASCII tilde (td1) > -- LÉVAI Dániel PGP key ID = 0x83B63A8F Key fingerprint = DBEC C66B A47A DFA2 792D 650C C69B BE4C 83B6 3A8F
Re: fonts/terminus-font: Add `centered_tilde' flavor
Sat, 23 Apr 2016 17:13:37 -0400 Michael Reed> On 04/23/16 17:01, patrick keshishian wrote: > > On 4/23/16, Michael Reed wrote: > >> I prefer this variant of terminus, I wonder what others think. > > > > Just reading the description of this patch on $HOMEPAGE, I > > wonder (as the page suggests) if this should be default? > > I initially agreed with that because a centered tilde seems to be > more common in other fonts, and I personally like it more, > but after some thought I don't think so. > > If a user does `pkg_add terminus', I'd think they would expect to Should, unless it's common acceptance it must include some patches. > get the vanilla, unpatched version of Terminus. If upstream does > indeed make that the default then so be it, but for now I think a > separate flavor would be preferable for end-users. Not very important to me anyway, yet I would prefer the default install mimicked historically accepted readable text norms and not the "modern" this and that fancy quotes and other eye poking variation of legibility. > What do you think? Seconded, flavours within reason. It is known this font has too many. I think you will make the default look good without need for checking.
Re: fonts/terminus-font: Add `centered_tilde' flavor
On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 01:57:12AM +0100, Stuart Henderson wrote: > > Although I am still in two minds about this strange spelling of > the word that most English-speakers in the world know as "centred". > Oh the funny and strange thoughts of so many people. :) It's so clear that the correct form of "English" is American English. It's also so clear that the correct form of Spanish is Mexican Spanish. People in England and Spain really do need to catch up with the proper forms of speaking. Chris
Re: fonts/terminus-font: Add `centered_tilde' flavor
On 2016/04/23 16:34, patrick keshishian wrote: > + symquotes- Build with symmetric single quotes. > + centered_tilde - Build with centered ASCII tilde. > + symquotes-centered_tilde - Build with both modifications. I think this last line is a little confusing, it suggests there's something unusual about this port - and if you're building it from ports it won't work like that anyway - you would specify it like `env FLAVOR="symquotes centered_tilde" make'. Looking at the post-patch target, we don't actually need it at all, see the diff below. I also included upstream's patch names in DESCR in case somebody is looking for a variant by that name, and tweaked the text above a little. Although I am still in two minds about this strange spelling of the word that most English-speakers in the world know as "centred". OK with you Daniel? (and I guess, as maintainer, you get final choice on spelling ;-) Index: Makefile === RCS file: /cvs/ports/fonts/Makefile,v retrieving revision 1.31 diff -u -p -r1.31 Makefile --- Makefile10 Mar 2016 07:22:46 - 1.31 +++ Makefile24 Apr 2016 00:48:51 - @@ -56,6 +56,9 @@ SUBDIR += spranq-ecofont-ttf SUBDIR += symbola-ttf SUBDIR += terminus-font + SUBDIR += terminus-font,symquotes + SUBDIR += terminus-font,symquotes,centered_tilde + SUBDIR += terminus-font,centered_tilde SUBDIR += ubuntu-fonts SUBDIR += un-fonts SUBDIR += zh-arphicttf Index: terminus-font/Makefile === RCS file: /cvs/ports/fonts/terminus-font/Makefile,v retrieving revision 1.10 diff -u -p -r1.10 Makefile --- terminus-font/Makefile 13 Nov 2015 20:18:25 - 1.10 +++ terminus-font/Makefile 24 Apr 2016 00:48:51 - @@ -3,6 +3,7 @@ COMMENT = fixed width fonts especially for long hacking sessions DISTNAME = terminus-font-4.40 +REVISION = 0 CATEGORIES = fonts x11 HOMEPAGE = http://terminus-font.sourceforge.net/ @@ -24,13 +25,18 @@ FONTDIR = ${PREFIX}/share/fonts/terminu USE_GMAKE =Yes -FLAVORS = symquotes +FLAVORS = symquotes centered_tilde FLAVOR ?= +.if ${FLAVOR:Mcentered_tilde} +FLAVOR_PATCHES += ${WRKSRC}/alt/td1.diff +.endif + .if ${FLAVOR:Msymquotes} -post-patch: - ${PATCH} -d ${WRKSRC} < ${WRKSRC}/alt/gq2.diff +FLAVOR_PATCHES += ${WRKSRC}/alt/gq2.diff .endif + +PATCH_LIST = patch-* ${FLAVOR_PATCHES} do-install: ${GZIP_CMD} ${WRKSRC}/*.pcf Index: terminus-font/pkg/DESCR === RCS file: /cvs/ports/fonts/terminus-font/pkg/DESCR,v retrieving revision 1.1.1.1 diff -u -p -r1.1.1.1 DESCR --- terminus-font/pkg/DESCR 19 Jul 2011 09:16:08 - 1.1.1.1 +++ terminus-font/pkg/DESCR 24 Apr 2016 00:48:51 - @@ -1,5 +1,6 @@ The Terminus font is a complete set of fixed-size fonts designed -especially for the usage in terms. +especially for use in terminals. Flavors: - symquotes - Build with symmetric single quotes. + symquotes - Build with symmetric single quotes (gq2) + centered_tilde - Build with centered ASCII tilde (td1)
Re: fonts/terminus-font: Add `centered_tilde' flavor
On 04/23/16 19:34, patrick keshishian wrote: On 4/23/16, Michael Reedwrote: On 04/23/16 19:12, Christian Weisgerber wrote: On 2016-04-23, Michael Reed wrote: -FLAVORS = symquotes +FLAVORS = symquotes centered_tilde FLAVOR ?= This (implicitly) allows combining the flavors... .if ${FLAVOR:Msymquotes} post-patch: ${PATCH} -d ${WRKSRC} < ${WRKSRC}/alt/gq2.diff +.elif ${FLAVOR:Mcentered_tilde} +post-patch: + ${PATCH} -d ${WRKSRC} < ${WRKSRC}/alt/td1.diff .endif ... but this doesn't. Indeed, Patrick just pointed that out. New patch is attached. After sending my reply, i realized that to allow both flavors at the same time, the post-patch needs to be a bit more sophisticated. Not sure if make will like two targets with the same name if both flavors are specified during make. Are you sure your patch is needed? `man ports' says this: More than one flavor may be specified: $ cd /usr/ports/mail/exim $ env FLAVOR="mysql ldap" make package ... which seems to work fine in practice, as mentioned by Stuart (using my most recent patch): $ env FLAVOR="symquotes centered_tilde" make install ... $ pkg_info terminus-font | head -1 Information for inst:terminus-font-4.40p0-symquotes-centered_tilde something like attached seems to work allowing both flavors at the same time. --patrick In the patch, I explicitly mention the compound flavor; should that be done?
Re: fonts/terminus-font: Add `centered_tilde' flavor
On 4/23/16, Michael Reedwrote: > On 04/23/16 19:12, Christian Weisgerber wrote: >> On 2016-04-23, Michael Reed wrote: >> >>> -FLAVORS = symquotes >>> +FLAVORS = symquotes centered_tilde >>> FLAVOR ?= >> >> This (implicitly) allows combining the flavors... >> >>> .if ${FLAVOR:Msymquotes} >>> post-patch: >>> ${PATCH} -d ${WRKSRC} < ${WRKSRC}/alt/gq2.diff >>> +.elif ${FLAVOR:Mcentered_tilde} >>> +post-patch: >>> + ${PATCH} -d ${WRKSRC} < ${WRKSRC}/alt/td1.diff >>> .endif >> >> ... but this doesn't. >> > > Indeed, Patrick just pointed that out. New patch is attached. After sending my reply, i realized that to allow both flavors at the same time, the post-patch needs to be a bit more sophisticated. Not sure if make will like two targets with the same name if both flavors are specified during make. something like attached seems to work allowing both flavors at the same time. --patrick > In the patch, I explicitly mention the compound flavor; should that be > done? Index: Makefile === RCS file: /cvs/obsd/ports/fonts/terminus-font/Makefile,v retrieving revision 1.10 diff -u -p -u -p -r1.10 Makefile --- Makefile13 Nov 2015 20:18:25 - 1.10 +++ Makefile23 Apr 2016 23:33:32 - @@ -4,6 +4,7 @@ COMMENT = fixed width fonts especially DISTNAME = terminus-font-4.40 CATEGORIES = fonts x11 +REVISION = 0 HOMEPAGE = http://terminus-font.sourceforge.net/ @@ -24,12 +25,21 @@ FONTDIR = ${PREFIX}/share/fonts/terminu USE_GMAKE =Yes -FLAVORS = symquotes +FLAVORS = symquotes centered_tilde FLAVOR ?= .if ${FLAVOR:Msymquotes} +FLAVOR_PATCHES += ${WRKSRC}/alt/gq2.diff +.endif +.if ${FLAVOR:Mcentered_tilde} +FLAVOR_PATCHES += ${WRKSRC}/alt/td1.diff +.endif + +.if !empty(FLAVOR_PATCHES) post-patch: - ${PATCH} -d ${WRKSRC} < ${WRKSRC}/alt/gq2.diff + for f in ${FLAVOR_PATCHES} ; do \ + ${PATCH} -d ${WRKSRC} < $$f ; \ + done .endif do-install: Index: pkg/DESCR === RCS file: /cvs/obsd/ports/fonts/terminus-font/pkg/DESCR,v retrieving revision 1.1.1.1 diff -u -p -u -p -r1.1.1.1 DESCR --- pkg/DESCR 19 Jul 2011 09:16:08 - 1.1.1.1 +++ pkg/DESCR 23 Apr 2016 23:33:32 - @@ -2,4 +2,6 @@ The Terminus font is a complete set of f especially for the usage in terms. Flavors: - symquotes - Build with symmetric single quotes. + symquotes- Build with symmetric single quotes. + centered_tilde - Build with centered ASCII tilde. + symquotes-centered_tilde - Build with both modifications.
Re: fonts/terminus-font: Add `centered_tilde' flavor
On 04/23/16 19:12, Christian Weisgerber wrote: On 2016-04-23, Michael Reedwrote: -FLAVORS = symquotes +FLAVORS = symquotes centered_tilde FLAVOR ?= This (implicitly) allows combining the flavors... .if ${FLAVOR:Msymquotes} post-patch: ${PATCH} -d ${WRKSRC} < ${WRKSRC}/alt/gq2.diff +.elif ${FLAVOR:Mcentered_tilde} +post-patch: + ${PATCH} -d ${WRKSRC} < ${WRKSRC}/alt/td1.diff .endif ... but this doesn't. Indeed, Patrick just pointed that out. New patch is attached. In the patch, I explicitly mention the compound flavor; should that be done? Index: Makefile === RCS file: /cvs/ports/fonts/terminus-font/Makefile,v retrieving revision 1.10 diff -u -p -r1.10 Makefile --- Makefile 13 Nov 2015 20:18:25 - 1.10 +++ Makefile 23 Apr 2016 23:14:27 - @@ -4,6 +4,7 @@ COMMENT = fixed width fonts especially DISTNAME = terminus-font-4.40 CATEGORIES = fonts x11 +REVISION = 0 HOMEPAGE = http://terminus-font.sourceforge.net/ @@ -24,12 +25,15 @@ FONTDIR = ${PREFIX}/share/fonts/terminu USE_GMAKE = Yes -FLAVORS = symquotes +FLAVORS = symquotes centered_tilde FLAVOR ?= -.if ${FLAVOR:Msymquotes} post-patch: +.if ${FLAVOR:Msymquotes} ${PATCH} -d ${WRKSRC} < ${WRKSRC}/alt/gq2.diff +.endif +.if ${FLAVOR:Mcentered_tilde} + ${PATCH} -d ${WRKSRC} < ${WRKSRC}/alt/td1.diff .endif do-install: Index: pkg/DESCR === RCS file: /cvs/ports/fonts/terminus-font/pkg/DESCR,v retrieving revision 1.1.1.1 diff -u -p -r1.1.1.1 DESCR --- pkg/DESCR 19 Jul 2011 09:16:08 - 1.1.1.1 +++ pkg/DESCR 23 Apr 2016 23:14:27 - @@ -2,4 +2,6 @@ The Terminus font is a complete set of f especially for the usage in terms. Flavors: - symquotes - Build with symmetric single quotes. + symquotes- Build with symmetric single quotes. + centered_tilde - Build with centered ASCII tilde. + symquotes-centered_tilde - Build with both modifications.
Re: fonts/terminus-font: Add `centered_tilde' flavor
On 2016-04-23, Michael Reedwrote: > -FLAVORS =symquotes > +FLAVORS =symquotes centered_tilde > FLAVOR ?= This (implicitly) allows combining the flavors... > .if ${FLAVOR:Msymquotes} > post-patch: > ${PATCH} -d ${WRKSRC} < ${WRKSRC}/alt/gq2.diff > +.elif ${FLAVOR:Mcentered_tilde} > +post-patch: > + ${PATCH} -d ${WRKSRC} < ${WRKSRC}/alt/td1.diff > .endif ... but this doesn't. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
Re: fonts/terminus-font: Add `centered_tilde' flavor
On 4/23/16, Michael Reedwrote: > On 04/23/16 17:01, patrick keshishian wrote: >> On 4/23/16, Michael Reed wrote: >>> I prefer this variant of terminus, I wonder what others think. >> >> Just reading the description of this patch on $HOMEPAGE, I >> wonder (as the page suggests) if this should be default? > > I initially agreed with that because a centered tilde seems to be > more common in other fonts, and I personally like it more, > but after some thought I don't think so. > > If a user does `pkg_add terminus', I'd think they would expect to > get the vanilla, unpatched version of Terminus. If upstream does > indeed make that the default then so be it, but for now I think a > separate flavor would be preferable for end-users. > > What do you think? OK by me. Nice to have the flavor now at least. >> Incidentally, if it remains a FLAVOR, is it mutually exclusive >> with the symquotes flavor? > > If my understanding of flavors is correct, then yes. > > Anyway, are you suggesting there be a third flavor, something > like `symquotes_centered_tilde'? I was going to say instead of having the .elif ${FLAVOR:Mcentered_tilde} just have a .if ${FLAVOR:Mcentered_tilde} and as Stuart replied, evidently you can apply both patches. Best, --patrick
Re: fonts/terminus-font: Add `centered_tilde' flavor
On 2016/04/23 14:01, patrick keshishian wrote: > On 4/23/16, Michael Reedwrote: > > I prefer this variant of terminus, I wonder what others think. > > Just reading the description of this patch on $HOMEPAGE, I > wonder (as the page suggests) if this should be default? > > Incidentally, if it remains a FLAVOR, is it mutually exclusive > with the symquotes flavor? They can both be used together, works fine here.
Re: fonts/terminus-font: Add `centered_tilde' flavor
On 04/23/16 17:01, patrick keshishian wrote: On 4/23/16, Michael Reedwrote: I prefer this variant of terminus, I wonder what others think. Just reading the description of this patch on $HOMEPAGE, I wonder (as the page suggests) if this should be default? I initially agreed with that because a centered tilde seems to be more common in other fonts, and I personally like it more, but after some thought I don't think so. If a user does `pkg_add terminus', I'd think they would expect to get the vanilla, unpatched version of Terminus. If upstream does indeed make that the default then so be it, but for now I think a separate flavor would be preferable for end-users. What do you think? Incidentally, if it remains a FLAVOR, is it mutually exclusive with the symquotes flavor? If my understanding of flavors is correct, then yes. Anyway, are you suggesting there be a third flavor, something like `symquotes_centered_tilde'? --patrick
Re: fonts/terminus-font: Add `centered_tilde' flavor
On 4/23/16, Michael Reedwrote: > I prefer this variant of terminus, I wonder what others think. Just reading the description of this patch on $HOMEPAGE, I wonder (as the page suggests) if this should be default? Incidentally, if it remains a FLAVOR, is it mutually exclusive with the symquotes flavor? --patrick