Re: Waves installation?

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

I know you weren't, but still, the way I responded probably wasn't the most 
appropriate, admittedly.

Anyway, it's all good.

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Jesse Kragiel 
  To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 10:11 AM
  Subject: Re: Waves installation?


  Oh I wasn't trying to be patronizing, but in this day where everyone feels 
entitled, and protests and makes a scene when they feel they've been slighted, 
it's always good to remember that those tactics sometimes get results, but not 
the ones we necessarily want. It's kinda like when the NFB thought it would be 
cute to discuss a class action against Avid and other companies. I much prefer 
things going the way they are with healthy dialog between us and manufacturers. 
Full access may take longer, but in the end, I believe the level of it will be 
far better.

  Sent from my iPhone

  On Mar 1, 2017, at 9:57 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgillan...@gmail.com> 
wrote:


Very valid points made. I stand corrected, and apologize. My comments were 
uncalled for. Forgive me.

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Jesse Kragiel 
  To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 9:30 AM
  Subject: Re: Waves installation?


  Chris, a few things actually stand in the way. One of them is the 
cross-platform nature of the plugins. They write the foundational code once to 
make it work in both Mac and Windows. The other thing is that they run within 
what ever host they're installed in. The other hurtle is that Apple itself has 
not made the mouse pointer accessible at all. If there were a way for us to 
actually hear what was under the mouse, then there's probably a lot more we 
could actually do regarding many plugins that sighted people take for granted. 
The first line of questioning may need to go to Apple, as an accessible way to 
move and hear what the mouse pointer lands on could really make a difference. 
Waves has a large install base, and very little of it is blind. They're 
completely aware of their software's limitations, and are doing what they can 
to help us, including even expressing interest in doing so. You forget that 
just a few years ago, neither Logic nor Pro Tools were accessible for us at 
all! Windows users still can't enjoy PT, and the Sonar solution we used to 
enjoy is now 6 or 7 versions out of date. I'd say access has come a long way, 
and first and foremost, we should be thankful for what we have, while 
continuing to encourage developers to work on solutions for us. We got here, 
not because we were bullies, but because we were politely expressive in wanting 
access.

  Sent from my iPhone

  On Mar 1, 2017, at 8:55 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
<clgillan...@gmail.com> wrote:


I'm curious why things are not accessible, if they care about 
accessibility? It's been now what... almost 4 years, if not more, since I first 
heard about these guys, and things still are not any more accessible than they 
were back in the days?

In you all's defense, yes, they will help remote in and take care of 
things for you, but that still should never be a sollution for considerring 
good accessibility, and now with A11Y being where it is, I'm not sure this 
would fall under that, probably not, but, still...

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Jesse Kragiel 
  To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 5:38 PM
  Subject: Re: Waves installation?


  Amir's the man! I emailed him this mrning and he got right back with 
me. It may not be overnight, but Waves seems to care about our needs, and 
that's a wonderful thing! They make incredible sounding plugins, and right now, 
I'm absolutely in love with the SSL series! They add character to a mix just by 
adding them, even without tweaking anything!

  Sent from my iPhone

  On Feb 28, 2017, at 4:52 PM, CHUCK REICHEL 
<soundpicturerecord...@gmail.com> wrote:


Hi, 
Yes Waves will remote in to your box and take care of all that for 
you. 
Drop Amir an email and tell him you need help with Waves because of 
their VoiceOver accessibility issues;
Amir Vinci <a...@waves.com>
Amir Vinci is Director of Pro Audio Products Waves Audio Ltd He's 
just under the CEO! ;)
While your at it heres the CEO and He checks this email address 
below;
Gilad Keren <gi...@waves.com>
Talk soon


On Feb 28, 2017, at 1:21 PM, TheOreoMonster wrote:


  Sighted assistance is still needed, however waves support is good 
about using team viewer to get you up and running if needed. Demos of the plug 
ins are available and you will need to activate the demos through the same 
method I using waves central I believe.  


On Feb 28, 20

Re: Waves installation?

[Slau Halatyn]

This is no different from any concern over UI elements being accessible to the 
OS. Actually, this is both the pro and con. As Steve said, items that are 
visible can be spoken when navigated over with the mouse but, by that same 
token, if they're visible, one need not use the mouse, per se. The issue with 
plug-ins is that they are their own environment and can be authored in any of 
several different development platforms. Unfortunately, it's not as easy as 
saying to a developer, "Hey, make your toolbar accessible, please." This has to 
be a coordinated effort with not only Avid but other DAW platforms. Keyboard 
shortcuts will get us most of the way but some things will be more challenging 
and there isn't a simple solution. Nevertheless, raising awareness is OK but, 
without the cooperation of the other dAW platforms, we're spinning our wheels.

> On Mar 1, 2017, at 11:45 AM, Jesse Kragiel <jessekrag...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> In other words, make the mouse pointer as accessible on Mac as Jaws used to 
> on the PC. Yes, the elements would have to be accessible to VO, but there 
> should be a way to make them so. At this point, if we can't get to something 
> with the keyboard in VO, then VO won't read its elements with the mouse 
> either.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Mar 1, 2017, at 11:40 AM, TheOreoMonster <monkeypushe...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:monkeypushe...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>> Hey Jesse, 
>> 
>> Can you clarify what you mean the mouse pointer and hearing wats under it 
>> isn’t accessible? In VO settings I can set VO cursor to follow mouse pointer 
>> and move the mouse or track pad and have VO report whats under the mouse. I 
>> have used this numerous times to click on checkboxes and buttons on websites 
>> and etc that didn’t respond to keyboard commands. This was also a great work 
>> around for accessing the menus extra area or the status bar back in the days 
>> of it not being accessible. However this can only work if the element under 
>> the mouse is visible to VO already. So in this case it seems the wave 
>> toolbar would first need to be visible to VO before using the mouse would be 
>> a worthwhile solution. So was just a little confused by what you meant if 
>> you don’t mind clarifying.
>> 
>> Thanks, 
>> 
>>> On Mar 1, 2017, at 6:30 AM, Jesse Kragiel <jessekrag...@gmail.com 
>>> <mailto:jessekrag...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Chris, a few things actually stand in the way. One of them is the 
>>> cross-platform nature of the plugins. They write the foundational code once 
>>> to make it work in both Mac and Windows. The other thing is that they run 
>>> within what ever host they're installed in. The other hurtle is that Apple 
>>> itself has not made the mouse pointer accessible at all. If there were a 
>>> way for us to actually hear what was under the mouse, then there's probably 
>>> a lot more we could actually do regarding many plugins that sighted people 
>>> take for granted. The first line of questioning may need to go to Apple, as 
>>> an accessible way to move and hear what the mouse pointer lands on could 
>>> really make a difference. Waves has a large install base, and very little 
>>> of it is blind. They're completely aware of their software's limitations, 
>>> and are doing what they can to help us, including even expressing interest 
>>> in doing so. You forget that just a few years ago, neither Logic nor Pro 
>>> Tools were accessible for us at all! Windows users still can't enjoy PT, 
>>> and the Sonar solution we used to enjoy is now 6 or 7 versions out of date. 
>>> I'd say access has come a long way, and first and foremost, we should be 
>>> thankful for what we have, while continuing to encourage developers to work 
>>> on solutions for us. We got here, not because we were bullies, but because 
>>> we were politely expressive in wanting access.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Mar 1, 2017, at 8:55 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgillan...@gmail.com 
>>> <mailto:clgillan...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I'm curious why things are not accessible, if they care about 
>>>> accessibility? It's been now what... almost 4 years, if not more, since I 
>>>> first heard about these guys, and things still are not any more accessible 
>>>> than they were back in the days?
>>>>  
>>>> In you all's defense, yes, they will help remote in and take care of 
>>>> things for you, but that still should never be a sollution for 
>>>> consi

Re: Waves installation?

[Jesse Kragiel]

In other words, make the mouse pointer as accessible on Mac as Jaws used to on 
the PC. Yes, the elements would have to be accessible to VO, but there should 
be a way to make them so. At this point, if we can't get to something with the 
keyboard in VO, then VO won't read its elements with the mouse either.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 1, 2017, at 11:40 AM, TheOreoMonster <monkeypushe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hey Jesse, 
> 
> Can you clarify what you mean the mouse pointer and hearing wats under it 
> isn’t accessible? In VO settings I can set VO cursor to follow mouse pointer 
> and move the mouse or track pad and have VO report whats under the mouse. I 
> have used this numerous times to click on checkboxes and buttons on websites 
> and etc that didn’t respond to keyboard commands. This was also a great work 
> around for accessing the menus extra area or the status bar back in the days 
> of it not being accessible. However this can only work if the element under 
> the mouse is visible to VO already. So in this case it seems the wave toolbar 
> would first need to be visible to VO before using the mouse would be a 
> worthwhile solution. So was just a little confused by what you meant if you 
> don’t mind clarifying.
> 
> Thanks, 
> 
>> On Mar 1, 2017, at 6:30 AM, Jesse Kragiel <jessekrag...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Chris, a few things actually stand in the way. One of them is the 
>> cross-platform nature of the plugins. They write the foundational code once 
>> to make it work in both Mac and Windows. The other thing is that they run 
>> within what ever host they're installed in. The other hurtle is that Apple 
>> itself has not made the mouse pointer accessible at all. If there were a way 
>> for us to actually hear what was under the mouse, then there's probably a 
>> lot more we could actually do regarding many plugins that sighted people 
>> take for granted. The first line of questioning may need to go to Apple, as 
>> an accessible way to move and hear what the mouse pointer lands on could 
>> really make a difference. Waves has a large install base, and very little of 
>> it is blind. They're completely aware of their software's limitations, and 
>> are doing what they can to help us, including even expressing interest in 
>> doing so. You forget that just a few years ago, neither Logic nor Pro Tools 
>> were accessible for us at all! Windows users still can't enjoy PT, and the 
>> Sonar solution we used to enjoy is now 6 or 7 versions out of date. I'd say 
>> access has come a long way, and first and foremost, we should be thankful 
>> for what we have, while continuing to encourage developers to work on 
>> solutions for us. We got here, not because we were bullies, but because we 
>> were politely expressive in wanting access.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Mar 1, 2017, at 8:55 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>> <clgillan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm curious why things are not accessible, if they care about 
>>> accessibility? It's been now what... almost 4 years, if not more, since I 
>>> first heard about these guys, and things still are not any more accessible 
>>> than they were back in the days?
>>>  
>>> In you all's defense, yes, they will help remote in and take care of things 
>>> for you, but that still should never be a sollution for considerring good 
>>> accessibility, and now with A11Y being where it is, I'm not sure this would 
>>> fall under that, probably not, but, still...
>>>  
>>> Chris.
>>>  
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: Jesse Kragiel
>>> To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 5:38 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Waves installation?
>>> 
>>> Amir's the man! I emailed him this mrning and he got right back with me. It 
>>> may not be overnight, but Waves seems to care about our needs, and that's a 
>>> wonderful thing! They make incredible sounding plugins, and right now, I'm 
>>> absolutely in love with the SSL series! They add character to a mix just by 
>>> adding them, even without tweaking anything!
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 28, 2017, at 4:52 PM, CHUCK REICHEL 
>>>> <soundpicturerecord...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi,
>>>> Yes Waves will remote in to your box and take care of all that for you.
>>>> Drop Amir an email and tell him you need help with Waves because of their 
>>>> VoiceOver accessibility issues;
>>>> Amir Vinci &

Re: Waves installation?

[TheOreoMonster]

Hey Jesse, 

Can you clarify what you mean the mouse pointer and hearing wats under it isn’t 
accessible? In VO settings I can set VO cursor to follow mouse pointer and move 
the mouse or track pad and have VO report whats under the mouse. I have used 
this numerous times to click on checkboxes and buttons on websites and etc that 
didn’t respond to keyboard commands. This was also a great work around for 
accessing the menus extra area or the status bar back in the days of it not 
being accessible. However this can only work if the element under the mouse is 
visible to VO already. So in this case it seems the wave toolbar would first 
need to be visible to VO before using the mouse would be a worthwhile solution. 
So was just a little confused by what you meant if you don’t mind clarifying.

Thanks, 

> On Mar 1, 2017, at 6:30 AM, Jesse Kragiel <jessekrag...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Chris, a few things actually stand in the way. One of them is the 
> cross-platform nature of the plugins. They write the foundational code once 
> to make it work in both Mac and Windows. The other thing is that they run 
> within what ever host they're installed in. The other hurtle is that Apple 
> itself has not made the mouse pointer accessible at all. If there were a way 
> for us to actually hear what was under the mouse, then there's probably a lot 
> more we could actually do regarding many plugins that sighted people take for 
> granted. The first line of questioning may need to go to Apple, as an 
> accessible way to move and hear what the mouse pointer lands on could really 
> make a difference. Waves has a large install base, and very little of it is 
> blind. They're completely aware of their software's limitations, and are 
> doing what they can to help us, including even expressing interest in doing 
> so. You forget that just a few years ago, neither Logic nor Pro Tools were 
> accessible for us at all! Windows users still can't enjoy PT, and the Sonar 
> solution we used to enjoy is now 6 or 7 versions out of date. I'd say access 
> has come a long way, and first and foremost, we should be thankful for what 
> we have, while continuing to encourage developers to work on solutions for 
> us. We got here, not because we were bullies, but because we were politely 
> expressive in wanting access.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Mar 1, 2017, at 8:55 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgillan...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:clgillan...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>> I'm curious why things are not accessible, if they care about accessibility? 
>> It's been now what... almost 4 years, if not more, since I first heard about 
>> these guys, and things still are not any more accessible than they were back 
>> in the days?
>>  
>> In you all's defense, yes, they will help remote in and take care of things 
>> for you, but that still should never be a sollution for considerring good 
>> accessibility, and now with A11Y being where it is, I'm not sure this would 
>> fall under that, probably not, but, still...
>>  
>> Chris.
>>  
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Jesse Kragiel <mailto:jessekrag...@gmail.com>
>> To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com <mailto:ptaccess@googlegroups.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 5:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: Waves installation?
>> 
>> Amir's the man! I emailed him this mrning and he got right back with me. It 
>> may not be overnight, but Waves seems to care about our needs, and that's a 
>> wonderful thing! They make incredible sounding plugins, and right now, I'm 
>> absolutely in love with the SSL series! They add character to a mix just by 
>> adding them, even without tweaking anything!
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Feb 28, 2017, at 4:52 PM, CHUCK REICHEL <soundpicturerecord...@gmail.com 
>> <mailto:soundpicturerecord...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> Yes Waves will remote in to your box and take care of all that for you.
>>> Drop Amir an email and tell him you need help with Waves because of their 
>>> VoiceOver accessibility issues;
>>> Amir Vinci <a...@waves.com <mailto:a...@waves.com>>
>>> Amir Vinci is Director of Pro Audio Products Waves Audio Ltd He's just 
>>> under the CEO! ;)
>>> While your at it heres the CEO and He checks this email address below;
>>> Gilad Keren <gi...@waves.com <mailto:gi...@waves.com>>
>>> Talk soon
>>> 
>>> On Feb 28, 2017, at 1:21 PM, TheOreoMonster wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Sighted assistance is still needed, however waves support is good about 
>>>> using team viewer to get you up and running if needed. Demos of

Re: Waves installation?

[CHUCK REICHEL]

Hi Jesse,
,
Great.
The presets and key commands are a good quick fix.
In fact the key commands would make it faster for sighted users I believe.
Not having to direct the mouse and so forth and so forth. :)
May be we can get 50 or 100 of the list to make the same suggestions to Amir 
and see them implemented ASAP!
Jesse, What part of the "globe" are you located in?
Talk soon
Chuck


On Mar 1, 2017, at 11:05 AM, Jesse Kragiel wrote:

> Chuck,
> I mentioned the preset thing to Amir in my email of yesterday. It really does 
> almost seem quicker for them to be able to make the toolbar accessible 
> though, or at least give us a key command to open the presets list. I 
> definitely do love their stuff though!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Mar 1, 2017, at 10:29 AM, CHUCK REICHEL <soundpicturerecord...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Jesse,
>> Just to give a bit of Waves accessibility history.
>> The Waves tool bar use to be accessible back in the day!
>> They have been made aware of the change in accessibility for a while now.
>> Thats the reason I posted those email addresses.
>> Its now time for Waves to hear from the blind engineers out there not just 
>> my self or Mike!
>> A very easy quick accessibility feature "fix" you guys might mention is for 
>> Waves   to provide the pro tools presets for there plugs with all Waves 
>> plugs at installation.
>> 
>> As usual professional courtesy  and spell checking is always a nice idea! :)
>> So heres the CEO and His top guys email to let them know I'm not the only 1 
>> out here!
>> Gilad Keren <gi...@waves.com>, Amir Vinci <a...@waves.com>
>> Even if  you don't own any Waves products let them know "nicely" your $ is 
>> waiting on them to do the right thing!
>> Talk soon
>> Chuck
>> 
>> 
>> On Mar 1, 2017, at 9:30 AM, Jesse Kragiel wrote:
>> 
>>> Chris, a few things actually stand in the way. One of them is the 
>>> cross-platform nature of the plugins. They write the foundational code once 
>>> to make it work in both Mac and Windows. The other thing is that they run 
>>> within what ever host they're installed in. The other hurtle is that Apple 
>>> itself has not made the mouse pointer accessible at all. If there were a 
>>> way for us to actually hear what was under the mouse, then there's probably 
>>> a lot more we could actually do regarding many plugins that sighted people 
>>> take for granted. The first line of questioning may need to go to Apple, as 
>>> an accessible way to move and hear what the mouse pointer lands on could 
>>> really make a difference. Waves has a large install base, and very little 
>>> of it is blind. They're completely aware of their software's limitations, 
>>> and are doing what they can to help us, including even expressing interest 
>>> in doing so. You forget that just a few years ago, neither Logic nor Pro 
>>> Tools were accessible for us at all! Windows users still can't enjoy PT, 
>>> and the Sonar solution we used to enjoy is now 6 or 7 versions out of date. 
>>> I'd say access has come a long way, and first and foremost, we should be 
>>> thankful for what we have, while continuing to encourage developers to work 
>>> on solutions for us. We got here, not because we were bullies, but because 
>>> we were politely expressive in wanting access.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Mar 1, 2017, at 8:55 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>> <clgillan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I'm curious why things are not accessible, if they care about 
>>>> accessibility? It's been now what... almost 4 years, if not more, since I 
>>>> first heard about these guys, and things still are not any more  
>>>> accessible than they were back in the days?
>>>>  
>>>> In you all's defense, yes, they will help remote in and take care of 
>>>> things for you, but that still should never be a sollution for 
>>>> considerring good accessibility, and now with A11Y being where it is, I'm 
>>>> not sure this would fall under that, probably not, but, still...
>>>>  
>>>> Chris.
>>>>  
>>>> - Original Message -
>>>> From: Jesse Kragiel
>>>> To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 5:38 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Waves installation?
>>>> 
>>>> Amir's the man! I emailed him this mrning and he got right back with me. 
>>>> It may not be ove

Re: Waves installation?

[Jesse Kragiel]

Chuck,
I mentioned the preset thing to Amir in my email of yesterday. It really does 
almost seem quicker for them to be able to make the toolbar accessible though, 
or at least give us a key command to open the presets list. I definitely do 
love their stuff though!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 1, 2017, at 10:29 AM, CHUCK REICHEL <soundpicturerecord...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jesse,
> Just to give a bit of Waves accessibility history.
> The Waves tool bar use to be accessible back in the day!
> They have been made aware of the change in accessibility for a while now.
> Thats the reason I posted those email addresses.
> Its now time for Waves to hear from the blind engineers out there not just my 
> self or Mike!
> A very easy quick accessibility feature "fix" you guys might mention is for 
> Waves   to provide the pro tools presets for there plugs with all Waves plugs 
> at installation.
> 
> As usual professional courtesy  and spell checking is always a nice idea! :)
> So heres the CEO and His top guys email to let them know I'm not the only 1 
> out here!
> Gilad Keren <gi...@waves.com>, Amir Vinci <a...@waves.com>
> Even if  you don't own any Waves products let them know "nicely" your $ is 
> waiting on them to do the right thing!
> Talk soon
> Chuck
> 
> 
>> On Mar 1, 2017, at 9:30 AM, Jesse Kragiel wrote:
>> 
>> Chris, a few things actually stand in the way. One of them is the 
>> cross-platform nature of the plugins. They write the foundational code once 
>> to make it work in both Mac and Windows. The other thing is that they run 
>> within what ever host they're installed in. The other hurtle is that Apple 
>> itself has not made the mouse pointer accessible at all. If there were a way 
>> for us to actually hear what was under the mouse, then there's probably a 
>> lot more we could actually do regarding many plugins that sighted people 
>> take for granted. The first line of questioning may need to go to Apple, as 
>> an accessible way to move and hear what the mouse pointer lands on could 
>> really make a difference. Waves has a large install base, and very little of 
>> it is blind. They're completely aware of their software's limitations, and 
>> are doing what they can to help us, including even expressing interest in 
>> doing so. You forget that just a few years ago, neither Logic nor Pro Tools 
>> were accessible for us at all! Windows users still can't enjoy PT, and the 
>> Sonar solution we used to enjoy is now 6 or 7 versions out of date. I'd say 
>> access has come a long way, and first and foremost, we should be thankful 
>> for what we have, while continuing to encourage developers to work on 
>> solutions for us. We got here, not because we were bullies, but because we 
>> were politely expressive in wanting access.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Mar 1, 2017, at 8:55 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>> <clgillan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm curious why things are not accessible, if they care about 
>>> accessibility? It's been now what... almost 4 years, if not more, since I 
>>> first heard about these guys, and things still are not any more accessible 
>>> than they were back in the days?
>>>  
>>> In you all's defense, yes, they will help remote in and take care of things 
>>> for you, but that still should never be a sollution for considerring good 
>>> accessibility, and now with A11Y being where it is, I'm not sure this would 
>>> fall under that, probably not, but, still...
>>>  
>>> Chris.
>>>  
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: Jesse Kragiel
>>> To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 5:38 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Waves installation?
>>> 
>>> Amir's the man! I emailed him this mrning and he got right back with me. It 
>>> may not be overnight, but Waves seems to care about our needs, and that's a 
>>> wonderful thing! They make incredible sounding plugins, and right now, I'm 
>>> absolutely in love with the SSL series! They add character to a mix just by 
>>> adding them, even without tweaking anything!
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 28, 2017, at 4:52 PM, CHUCK REICHEL 
>>>> <soundpicturerecord...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi,
>>>> Yes Waves will remote in to your box and take care of all that for you.
>>>> Drop Amir an email and tell him you need help with Waves because of their 
>>>> VoiceOver accessi

Re: Waves installation?

[CHUCK REICHEL]

Hi Jesse,
Just to give a bit of Waves accessibility history.
The Waves tool bar use to be accessible back in the day!
They have been made aware of the change in accessibility for a while now.
Thats the reason I posted those email addresses.
Its now time for Waves to hear from the blind engineers out there not just my 
self or Mike!
A very easy quick accessibility feature "fix" you guys might mention is for 
Waves   to provide the pro tools presets for there plugs with all Waves plugs 
at installation.

As usual professional courtesy  and spell checking is always a nice idea! :)
So heres the CEO and His top guys email to let them know I'm not the only 1 out 
here!
Gilad Keren <gi...@waves.com>, Amir Vinci <a...@waves.com>
Even if  you don't own any Waves products let them know "nicely" your $ is 
waiting on them to do the right thing!
Talk soon
Chuck


On Mar 1, 2017, at 9:30 AM, Jesse Kragiel wrote:

> Chris, a few things actually stand in the way. One of them is the 
> cross-platform nature of the plugins. They write the foundational code once 
> to make it work in both Mac and Windows. The other thing is that they run 
> within what ever host they're installed in. The other hurtle is that Apple 
> itself has not made the mouse pointer accessible at all. If there were a way 
> for us to actually hear what was under the mouse, then there's probably a lot 
> more we could actually do regarding many plugins that sighted people take for 
> granted. The first line of questioning may need to go to Apple, as an 
> accessible way to move and hear what the mouse pointer lands on could really 
> make a difference. Waves has a large install base, and very little of it is 
> blind. They're completely aware of their software's limitations, and are 
> doing what they can to help us, including even expressing interest in doing 
> so. You forget that just a few years ago, neither Logic nor Pro Tools were 
> accessible for us at all! Windows users still can't enjoy PT, and the Sonar 
> solution we used to enjoy is now 6 or 7 versions out of date. I'd say access 
> has come a long way, and first and foremost, we should be thankful for what 
> we have, while continuing to encourage developers to work on solutions for 
> us. We got here, not because we were bullies, but because we were politely 
> expressive in wanting access.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Mar 1, 2017, at 8:55 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgillan...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> 
>> I'm curious why things are not accessible, if they care about accessibility? 
>> It's been now what... almost 4 years, if not more, since I first heard about 
>> these guys, and things still are not any more accessible than they were back 
>> in the days?
>>  
>> In you all's defense, yes, they will help remote in and take care of things 
>> for you, but that still should never be a sollution for considerring good 
>> accessibility, and now with A11Y being where it is, I'm not sure this would 
>> fall under that, probably not, but, still...
>>  
>> Chris.
>>  
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Jesse Kragiel
>> To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 5:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: Waves installation?
>> 
>> Amir's the man! I emailed him this mrning and he got right back with me. It 
>> may not be overnight, but Waves seems to care about our needs, and that's a 
>> wonderful thing! They make incredible sounding plugins, and right now, I'm 
>> absolutely in love with the SSL series! They add character to a mix just by 
>> adding them, even without tweaking anything!
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Feb 28, 2017, at 4:52 PM, CHUCK REICHEL <soundpicturerecord...@gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> Yes Waves will remote in to your box and take care of all that for you.
>>> Drop Amir an email and tell him you need help with Waves because of their 
>>> VoiceOver accessibility issues;
>>> Amir Vinci <a...@waves.com>
>>> Amir Vinci is Director of Pro Audio Products Waves Audio Ltd He's just 
>>> under the CEO! ;)
>>> While your at it heres the CEO and He checks this email address below;
>>> Gilad Keren <gi...@waves.com>
>>> Talk soon
>>> 
>>> On Feb 28, 2017, at 1:21 PM, TheOreoMonster wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Sighted assistance is still needed, however waves support is good about 
>>>> using team viewer to get you up and running if needed. Demos of the plug 
>>>> ins are available and you will need to activate the demos through the same 
>>>> method I using waves central I believe. 
>>>> 

Re: Waves installation?

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Very valid points made. I stand corrected, and apologize. My comments were 
uncalled for. Forgive me.

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Jesse Kragiel 
  To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 9:30 AM
  Subject: Re: Waves installation?


  Chris, a few things actually stand in the way. One of them is the 
cross-platform nature of the plugins. They write the foundational code once to 
make it work in both Mac and Windows. The other thing is that they run within 
what ever host they're installed in. The other hurtle is that Apple itself has 
not made the mouse pointer accessible at all. If there were a way for us to 
actually hear what was under the mouse, then there's probably a lot more we 
could actually do regarding many plugins that sighted people take for granted. 
The first line of questioning may need to go to Apple, as an accessible way to 
move and hear what the mouse pointer lands on could really make a difference. 
Waves has a large install base, and very little of it is blind. They're 
completely aware of their software's limitations, and are doing what they can 
to help us, including even expressing interest in doing so. You forget that 
just a few years ago, neither Logic nor Pro Tools were accessible for us at 
all! Windows users still can't enjoy PT, and the Sonar solution we used to 
enjoy is now 6 or 7 versions out of date. I'd say access has come a long way, 
and first and foremost, we should be thankful for what we have, while 
continuing to encourage developers to work on solutions for us. We got here, 
not because we were bullies, but because we were politely expressive in wanting 
access.

  Sent from my iPhone

  On Mar 1, 2017, at 8:55 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgillan...@gmail.com> 
wrote:


I'm curious why things are not accessible, if they care about 
accessibility? It's been now what... almost 4 years, if not more, since I first 
heard about these guys, and things still are not any more accessible than they 
were back in the days?

In you all's defense, yes, they will help remote in and take care of things 
for you, but that still should never be a sollution for considerring good 
accessibility, and now with A11Y being where it is, I'm not sure this would 
fall under that, probably not, but, still...

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Jesse Kragiel 
  To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 5:38 PM
  Subject: Re: Waves installation?


  Amir's the man! I emailed him this mrning and he got right back with me. 
It may not be overnight, but Waves seems to care about our needs, and that's a 
wonderful thing! They make incredible sounding plugins, and right now, I'm 
absolutely in love with the SSL series! They add character to a mix just by 
adding them, even without tweaking anything!

  Sent from my iPhone

  On Feb 28, 2017, at 4:52 PM, CHUCK REICHEL 
<soundpicturerecord...@gmail.com> wrote:


Hi, 
Yes Waves will remote in to your box and take care of all that for you. 
Drop Amir an email and tell him you need help with Waves because of 
their VoiceOver accessibility issues;
Amir Vinci <a...@waves.com>
Amir Vinci is Director of Pro Audio Products Waves Audio Ltd He's just 
under the CEO! ;)
While your at it heres the CEO and He checks this email address below;
Gilad Keren <gi...@waves.com>
Talk soon


On Feb 28, 2017, at 1:21 PM, TheOreoMonster wrote:


  Sighted assistance is still needed, however waves support is good 
about using team viewer to get you up and running if needed. Demos of the plug 
ins are available and you will need to activate the demos through the same 
method I using waves central I believe.  


On Feb 28, 2017, at 10:01 AM, Jesse Kragiel 
<jessekrag...@gmail.com> wrote:


You still need sighted assistance for Waves Central which installs 
and activates plugins.

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 28, 2017, at 12:40 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
<clgillan...@gmail.com> wrote:


  Now adays, can a sighted person install Waves plugins and 
activate them totally on their own with no sighted help. I know in the past, 
even after they apparently, from what I hear dropped the iLok scheme, it still! 
wasn't all that accessible.

  I'm just wonderring what the status on this is.

  I have the custom presets for the CLA2A, and have had someone 
sighted help me get those installed, but I'm now seriously considerring looking 
at more of those plugs. I just don't know what's accessible or for that mind, 
if any of these offer trials so I can try them in perspective with my own 
sessions before actually buying 'em. It's one thing to hear someone else's 
session that used them, but I really want to hear them with my own stuff to see 
if it would be worth

Re: Waves installation?

[Jesse Kragiel]

Chris, a few things actually stand in the way. One of them is the 
cross-platform nature of the plugins. They write the foundational code once to 
make it work in both Mac and Windows. The other thing is that they run within 
what ever host they're installed in. The other hurtle is that Apple itself has 
not made the mouse pointer accessible at all. If there were a way for us to 
actually hear what was under the mouse, then there's probably a lot more we 
could actually do regarding many plugins that sighted people take for granted. 
The first line of questioning may need to go to Apple, as an accessible way to 
move and hear what the mouse pointer lands on could really make a difference. 
Waves has a large install base, and very little of it is blind. They're 
completely aware of their software's limitations, and are doing what they can 
to help us, including even expressing interest in doing so. You forget that 
just a few years ago, neither Logic nor Pro Tools were accessible for us at 
all! Windows users still can't enjoy PT, and the Sonar solution we used to 
enjoy is now 6 or 7 versions out of date. I'd say access has come a long way, 
and first and foremost, we should be thankful for what we have, while 
continuing to encourage developers to work on solutions for us. We got here, 
not because we were bullies, but because we were politely expressive in wanting 
access.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 1, 2017, at 8:55 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgillan...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I'm curious why things are not accessible, if they care about accessibility? 
> It's been now what... almost 4 years, if not more, since I first heard about 
> these guys, and things still are not any more accessible than they were back 
> in the days?
>  
> In you all's defense, yes, they will help remote in and take care of things 
> for you, but that still should never be a sollution for considerring good 
> accessibility, and now with A11Y being where it is, I'm not sure this would 
> fall under that, probably not, but, still...
>  
> Chris.
>  
> - Original Message -
> From: Jesse Kragiel
> To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 5:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Waves installation?
> 
> Amir's the man! I emailed him this mrning and he got right back with me. It 
> may not be overnight, but Waves seems to care about our needs, and that's a 
> wonderful thing! They make incredible sounding plugins, and right now, I'm 
> absolutely in love with the SSL series! They add character to a mix just by 
> adding them, even without tweaking anything!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 28, 2017, at 4:52 PM, CHUCK REICHEL <soundpicturerecord...@gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> Yes Waves will remote in to your box and take care of all that for you.
>> Drop Amir an email and tell him you need help with Waves because of their 
>> VoiceOver accessibility issues;
>> Amir Vinci <a...@waves.com>
>> Amir Vinci is Director of Pro Audio Products Waves Audio Ltd He's just under 
>> the CEO! ;)
>> While your at it heres the CEO and He checks this email address below;
>> Gilad Keren <gi...@waves.com>
>> Talk soon
>> 
>>> On Feb 28, 2017, at 1:21 PM, TheOreoMonster wrote:
>>> 
>>> Sighted assistance is still needed, however waves support is good about 
>>> using team viewer to get you up and running if needed. Demos of the plug 
>>> ins are available and you will need to activate the demos through the same 
>>> method I using waves central I believe. 
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 28, 2017, at 10:01 AM, Jesse Kragiel <jessekrag...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> You still need sighted assistance for Waves Central which installs and 
>>>> activates plugins.
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 28, 2017, at 12:40 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>>>> <clgillan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Now adays, can a sighted person install Waves plugins and activate them 
>>>>> totally on their own with no sighted help. I know in the past, even after 
>>>>> they apparently, from what I hear dropped the iLok scheme, it still! 
>>>>> wasn't all that accessible.
>>>>>  
>>>>> I'm just wonderring what the status on this is.
>>>>>  
>>>>> I have the custom presets for the CLA2A, and have had someone sighted 
>>>>> help me get those installed, but I'm now seriously considerring looking 
>>>>> at more of those plugs. I just don't know what's accessible or for that 
>>>>> mi

Re: Waves installation?

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

I'm curious why things are not accessible, if they care about accessibility? 
It's been now what... almost 4 years, if not more, since I first heard about 
these guys, and things still are not any more accessible than they were back in 
the days?

In you all's defense, yes, they will help remote in and take care of things for 
you, but that still should never be a sollution for considerring good 
accessibility, and now with A11Y being where it is, I'm not sure this would 
fall under that, probably not, but, still...

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Jesse Kragiel 
  To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 5:38 PM
  Subject: Re: Waves installation?


  Amir's the man! I emailed him this mrning and he got right back with me. It 
may not be overnight, but Waves seems to care about our needs, and that's a 
wonderful thing! They make incredible sounding plugins, and right now, I'm 
absolutely in love with the SSL series! They add character to a mix just by 
adding them, even without tweaking anything!

  Sent from my iPhone

  On Feb 28, 2017, at 4:52 PM, CHUCK REICHEL <soundpicturerecord...@gmail.com> 
wrote:


Hi,
Yes Waves will remote in to your box and take care of all that for you.
Drop Amir an email and tell him you need help with Waves because of their 
VoiceOver accessibility issues;
Amir Vinci <a...@waves.com>
Amir Vinci is Director of Pro Audio Products Waves Audio Ltd He's just 
under the CEO! ;)
While your at it heres the CEO and He checks this email address below;
Gilad Keren <gi...@waves.com>
Talk soon


On Feb 28, 2017, at 1:21 PM, TheOreoMonster wrote:


  Sighted assistance is still needed, however waves support is good about 
using team viewer to get you up and running if needed. Demos of the plug ins 
are available and you will need to activate the demos through the same method I 
using waves central I believe. 


On Feb 28, 2017, at 10:01 AM, Jesse Kragiel <jessekrag...@gmail.com> 
wrote:


You still need sighted assistance for Waves Central which installs and 
activates plugins.

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 28, 2017, at 12:40 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
<clgillan...@gmail.com> wrote:


  Now adays, can a sighted person install Waves plugins and activate 
them totally on their own with no sighted help. I know in the past, even after 
they apparently, from what I hear dropped the iLok scheme, it still! wasn't all 
that accessible.

  I'm just wonderring what the status on this is.

  I have the custom presets for the CLA2A, and have had someone sighted 
help me get those installed, but I'm now seriously considerring looking at more 
of those plugs. I just don't know what's accessible or for that mind, if any of 
these offer trials so I can try them in perspective with my own sessions before 
actually buying 'em. It's one thing to hear someone else's session that used 
them, but I really want to hear them with my own stuff to see if it would be 
worth my investment.

  Chris.


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Re: Waves installation?

[Jesse Kragiel]

Amir's the man! I emailed him this mrning and he got right back with me. It may 
not be overnight, but Waves seems to care about our needs, and that's a 
wonderful thing! They make incredible sounding plugins, and right now, I'm 
absolutely in love with the SSL series! They add character to a mix just by 
adding them, even without tweaking anything!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 28, 2017, at 4:52 PM, CHUCK REICHEL  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> Yes Waves will remote in to your box and take care of all that for you.
> Drop Amir an email and tell him you need help with Waves because of their 
> VoiceOver accessibility issues;
> Amir Vinci 
> Amir Vinci is Director of Pro Audio Products Waves Audio Ltd He's just under 
> the CEO! ;)
> While your at it heres the CEO and He checks this email address below;
> Gilad Keren 
> Talk soon
> 
>> On Feb 28, 2017, at 1:21 PM, TheOreoMonster wrote:
>> 
>> Sighted assistance is still needed, however waves support is good about 
>> using team viewer to get you up and running if needed. Demos of the plug ins 
>> are available and you will need to activate the demos through the same 
>> method I using waves central I believe. 
>> 
>>> On Feb 28, 2017, at 10:01 AM, Jesse Kragiel  wrote:
>>> 
>>> You still need sighted assistance for Waves Central which installs and 
>>> activates plugins.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Feb 28, 2017, at 12:40 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
  wrote:
 
 Now adays, can a sighted person install Waves plugins and activate them 
 totally on their own with no sighted help. I know in the past, even after 
 they apparently, from what I hear dropped the iLok scheme, it still! 
 wasn't all that accessible.
  
 I'm just wonderring what the status on this is.
  
 I have the custom presets for the CLA2A, and have had someone sighted help 
 me get those installed, but I'm now seriously considerring looking at more 
 of those plugs. I just don't know what's accessible or for that mind, if 
 any of these offer trials so I can try them in perspective with my own 
 sessions before actually buying 'em. It's one thing to hear someone else's 
 session that used them, but I really want to hear them with my own stuff 
 to see if it would be worth my investment.
  
 Chris.
 
 -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
 Google Groups "Pro Tools Accessibility" group.
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 ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> 
>>> -- 
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>>> "Pro Tools Accessibility" group.
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>>> email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> 
>> 
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> 
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> Groups "Pro Tools Accessibility" group.
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Re: Waves installation?

[CHUCK REICHEL]

Hi,
Yes Waves will remote in to your box and take care of all that for you.
Drop Amir an email and tell him you need help with Waves because of their 
VoiceOver accessibility issues;
Amir Vinci 
Amir Vinci is Director of Pro Audio Products Waves Audio Ltd He's just under 
the CEO! ;)
While your at it heres the CEO and He checks this email address below;
Gilad Keren 
Talk soon

On Feb 28, 2017, at 1:21 PM, TheOreoMonster wrote:

> Sighted assistance is still needed, however waves support is good about using 
> team viewer to get you up and running if needed. Demos of the plug ins are 
> available and you will need to activate the demos through the same method I 
> using waves central I believe. 
> 
>> On Feb 28, 2017, at 10:01 AM, Jesse Kragiel  wrote:
>> 
>> You still need sighted assistance for Waves Central which installs and 
>> activates plugins.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Feb 28, 2017, at 12:40 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> Now adays, can a sighted person install Waves plugins and activate them 
>>> totally on their own with no sighted help. I know in the past, even after 
>>> they apparently, from what I hear dropped the iLok scheme, it still! wasn't 
>>> all that accessible.
>>>  
>>> I'm just wonderring what the status on this is.
>>>  
>>> I have the custom presets for the CLA2A, and have had someone sighted help 
>>> me get those installed, but I'm now seriously considerring looking at more 
>>> of those plugs. I just don't know what's accessible or for that mind, if 
>>> any of these offer trials so I can try them in perspective with my own 
>>> sessions before actually buying 'em. It's one thing to hear someone else's 
>>> session that used them, but I really want to hear them with my own stuff to 
>>> see if it would be worth my investment.
>>>  
>>> Chris.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
>>> Google Groups "Pro Tools Accessibility" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/ptaccess/sNqbb2VjBmo/unsubscribe.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
>>> ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> -- 
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> 
> 
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Re: Waves installation?

[TheOreoMonster]

Sighted assistance is still needed, however waves support is good about using 
team viewer to get you up and running if needed. Demos of the plug ins are 
available and you will need to activate the demos through the same method I 
using waves central I believe. 

> On Feb 28, 2017, at 10:01 AM, Jesse Kragiel  wrote:
> 
> You still need sighted assistance for Waves Central which installs and 
> activates plugins.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Feb 28, 2017, at 12:40 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  > wrote:
> 
>> Now adays, can a sighted person install Waves plugins and activate them 
>> totally on their own with no sighted help. I know in the past, even after 
>> they apparently, from what I hear dropped the iLok scheme, it still! wasn't 
>> all that accessible.
>>  
>> I'm just wonderring what the status on this is.
>>  
>> I have the custom presets for the CLA2A, and have had someone sighted help 
>> me get those installed, but I'm now seriously considerring looking at more 
>> of those plugs. I just don't know what's accessible or for that mind, if any 
>> of these offer trials so I can try them in perspective with my own sessions 
>> before actually buying 'em. It's one thing to hear someone else's session 
>> that used them, but I really want to hear them with my own stuff to see if 
>> it would be worth my investment.
>>  
>> Chris.
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
>> Google Groups "Pro Tools Accessibility" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/ptaccess/sNqbb2VjBmo/unsubscribe 
>> .
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>> ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>> .
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
>> .
> 
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> .
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> .

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Re: Waves installation?

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Dang! That stinks!

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Jesse Kragiel 
  To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 1:01 PM
  Subject: Re: Waves installation?


  You still need sighted assistance for Waves Central which installs and 
activates plugins.

  Sent from my iPhone

  On Feb 28, 2017, at 12:40 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
<clgillan...@gmail.com> wrote:


Now adays, can a sighted person install Waves plugins and activate them 
totally on their own with no sighted help. I know in the past, even after they 
apparently, from what I hear dropped the iLok scheme, it still! wasn't all that 
accessible.

I'm just wonderring what the status on this is.

I have the custom presets for the CLA2A, and have had someone sighted help 
me get those installed, but I'm now seriously considerring looking at more of 
those plugs. I just don't know what's accessible or for that mind, if any of 
these offer trials so I can try them in perspective with my own sessions before 
actually buying 'em. It's one thing to hear someone else's session that used 
them, but I really want to hear them with my own stuff to see if it would be 
worth my investment.

Chris.

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Re: Waves installation?

[Jesse Kragiel]

You still need sighted assistance for Waves Central which installs and 
activates plugins.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 28, 2017, at 12:40 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>  wrote:
> 
> Now adays, can a sighted person install Waves plugins and activate them 
> totally on their own with no sighted help. I know in the past, even after 
> they apparently, from what I hear dropped the iLok scheme, it still! wasn't 
> all that accessible.
>  
> I'm just wonderring what the status on this is.
>  
> I have the custom presets for the CLA2A, and have had someone sighted help me 
> get those installed, but I'm now seriously considerring looking at more of 
> those plugs. I just don't know what's accessible or for that mind, if any of 
> these offer trials so I can try them in perspective with my own sessions 
> before actually buying 'em. It's one thing to hear someone else's session 
> that used them, but I really want to hear them with my own stuff to see if it 
> would be worth my investment.
>  
> Chris.
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Waves installation?

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Now adays, can a sighted person install Waves plugins and activate them totally 
on their own with no sighted help. I know in the past, even after they 
apparently, from what I hear dropped the iLok scheme, it still! wasn't all that 
accessible.

I'm just wonderring what the status on this is.

I have the custom presets for the CLA2A, and have had someone sighted help me 
get those installed, but I'm now seriously considerring looking at more of 
those plugs. I just don't know what's accessible or for that mind, if any of 
these offer trials so I can try them in perspective with my own sessions before 
actually buying 'em. It's one thing to hear someone else's session that used 
them, but I really want to hear them with my own stuff to see if it would be 
worth my investment.

Chris.

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