Re: [pygame] teaching resources

[René Dudfield]

Thanks everyone. To summarise...
- A teaching resources page, which has and links to resources that teachers
can use.
- Link to:
- Paul's proven python pygame resource.
- raspberrypi
- microbit
- community.computingatschool.org.uk/resources/4952
- other human language/region specific resources
- different use categories (eg, for teaching music, drawing, ...)
- updated newbie guide
- reduced set of important fundamental concepts. Based on Ian's minimal
examples.
- order docs top navigation into important concepts first.
- Surface, Rect, ...
- monitor python for education for when if it is completed. Get in contact.
- improve sprite classes for areas people have found difficult.
- built in rotation and scaling, automatic transparency handling for
image loading.
- primitives that handle drawing.
- not sure how to handle coordinate reversal.
- the better sprite classes given more prominence (LayeredDirty works lots
faster)
- tag for educational projects
- page showing off projects for different pygame uses
- "What can pygame be used for?"





On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 2:26 PM, René Dudfield  wrote:

> Good point.
>
> Ian Mallet has already made a whole bunch of little improvements to the
> docs.  https://bitbucket.org/pygame/pygame/pull-requests/76
>
> I'll leave this other suggestion for the docs here...
> - Divide the docs top navigation up into two parts. 'core' important
> basics, and 'extras'. So things like mask, Overlay, cdrom, BufferProxy, and
> other non essential things are in 'extras'.
>
>
> cheers,
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 6:57 AM, Daniel Foerster 
> wrote:
>
>> In particular, "A Newbie Guide to pygame" is woefully outdated. Honestly,
>> it was outdated enough back when I was reading it for the first time in
>> 2011 that I made a version with a bunch of comments correcting its advice.
>> I don't use Pygame much these days, but it'd be great if someone who is
>> would make a replacement.
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 5:46 AM, Ian Mallett  wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 4:20 AM, René Dudfield  wrote:
>>>
 Whilst there are now more than a dozen books, and video series in many
 languages for teaching pygame, I'd like to include a new section on the
 website for educational resources for teachers. Or even better, to be able
 to point to an existing resource.  Not particularly for 'pygame', but for
 digital education in general, or at least python related. I wonder if you
 have any thoughts on this?

>>> ​This sounds awfully non-orthogonal to various current movements to
>>> bring CS education to the masses (which typically means coding instead,
>>> alas, but yet). Honestly, I'm not sure how valuable a new resource here
>>> would be--surely, there are educational sites for teaching, and same but
>>> specific for Python?
>>>
>>> What makes sense to me would be a section specifically on using pygame.
>>> We already have something of this sort (I know; I've been
>>> looking-at/sprucing-up the current tutorials), but these are largely dated,
>>> and don't span the whole of what pygame has to offer. They're also
>>> text-dense, which is apparently not a popular way to learn things anymore.
>>>
>>>
 Anything else I should link to?

>>> ​What would have been most helpful for me when I learned pygame would
>>> have been some solid foundation to build on. I offer my pygame hello
>>> world
>>> 
>>> and pygame-GL-2 hello world
>>> 
>>> as minimal, best-practices, public-domain resources (links have been stable
>>> for years, but mirroring would be ideal).
>>>
>>> Ian​
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [pygame] teaching resources

[René Dudfield]

Good point.

Ian Mallet has already made a whole bunch of little improvements to the
docs.  https://bitbucket.org/pygame/pygame/pull-requests/76

I'll leave this other suggestion for the docs here...
- Divide the docs top navigation up into two parts. 'core' important
basics, and 'extras'. So things like mask, Overlay, cdrom, BufferProxy, and
other non essential things are in 'extras'.


cheers,


On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 6:57 AM, Daniel Foerster 
wrote:

> In particular, "A Newbie Guide to pygame" is woefully outdated. Honestly,
> it was outdated enough back when I was reading it for the first time in
> 2011 that I made a version with a bunch of comments correcting its advice.
> I don't use Pygame much these days, but it'd be great if someone who is
> would make a replacement.
>
> On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 5:46 AM, Ian Mallett  wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 4:20 AM, René Dudfield  wrote:
>>
>>> Whilst there are now more than a dozen books, and video series in many
>>> languages for teaching pygame, I'd like to include a new section on the
>>> website for educational resources for teachers. Or even better, to be able
>>> to point to an existing resource.  Not particularly for 'pygame', but for
>>> digital education in general, or at least python related. I wonder if you
>>> have any thoughts on this?
>>>
>> ​This sounds awfully non-orthogonal to various current movements to bring
>> CS education to the masses (which typically means coding instead, alas, but
>> yet). Honestly, I'm not sure how valuable a new resource here would
>> be--surely, there are educational sites for teaching, and same but specific
>> for Python?
>>
>> What makes sense to me would be a section specifically on using pygame.
>> We already have something of this sort (I know; I've been
>> looking-at/sprucing-up the current tutorials), but these are largely dated,
>> and don't span the whole of what pygame has to offer. They're also
>> text-dense, which is apparently not a popular way to learn things anymore.
>>
>>
>>> Anything else I should link to?
>>>
>> ​What would have been most helpful for me when I learned pygame would
>> have been some solid foundation to build on. I offer my pygame hello
>> world
>> 
>> and pygame-GL-2 hello world
>> 
>> as minimal, best-practices, public-domain resources (links have been stable
>> for years, but mirroring would be ideal).
>>
>> Ian​
>>
>
>

Re: [pygame] teaching resources

[Daniel Foerster]

In particular, "A Newbie Guide to pygame" is woefully outdated. Honestly,
it was outdated enough back when I was reading it for the first time in
2011 that I made a version with a bunch of comments correcting its advice.
I don't use Pygame much these days, but it'd be great if someone who is
would make a replacement.

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 5:46 AM, Ian Mallett  wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 4:20 AM, René Dudfield  wrote:
>
>> Whilst there are now more than a dozen books, and video series in many
>> languages for teaching pygame, I'd like to include a new section on the
>> website for educational resources for teachers. Or even better, to be able
>> to point to an existing resource.  Not particularly for 'pygame', but for
>> digital education in general, or at least python related. I wonder if you
>> have any thoughts on this?
>>
> ​This sounds awfully non-orthogonal to various current movements to bring
> CS education to the masses (which typically means coding instead, alas, but
> yet). Honestly, I'm not sure how valuable a new resource here would
> be--surely, there are educational sites for teaching, and same but specific
> for Python?
>
> What makes sense to me would be a section specifically on using pygame. We
> already have something of this sort (I know; I've been
> looking-at/sprucing-up the current tutorials), but these are largely dated,
> and don't span the whole of what pygame has to offer. They're also
> text-dense, which is apparently not a popular way to learn things anymore.
>
>
>> Anything else I should link to?
>>
> ​What would have been most helpful for me when I learned pygame would have
> been some solid foundation to build on. I offer my pygame hello world
> 
> and pygame-GL-2 hello world
> 
> as minimal, best-practices, public-domain resources (links have been stable
> for years, but mirroring would be ideal).
>
> Ian​
>

Re: [pygame] teaching resources

[René Dudfield]

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 12:37 PM, Paul Vincent Craven  wrote:

> I've worked on http://programarcadegames.com for about 7 years now. I've
> led hundreds of students through the material, updated it, and improved it
> every week. With the examples, translations,  and videos, I really think it
> is the best quality educational resource for Pygame out there. I know I'm
> biased, but I don't think any other resource has had more editing not had
> more students go through it.
>
>
Definitely, this should go on there.

Re: [pygame] teaching resources

[René Dudfield]

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 12:23 PM, Craig Maloney  wrote:

> * René Dudfield (ren...@gmail.com) wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > A teacher sent me a photo of a wall showing drawings the kids all made
> with
> > pygame and printed the other day. He did it for a drawing class. Another
> > did a class with 'sound boards', where the kids jumped around on the
> dance
> > mats making 'music'. For me it would be interesting to send her a link
> with
> > resources for teaching music. She also teaches Finnish, and is always
> > interested in finding resources to do that in an interesting way. So if
> > there's something I can link to people by topic, that would be awesome
> > sauce?
>
> I'm wondering if there might be room on the Pygame site for a "uses"
> category to show folks what Pygame could be used for. Perhaps this could
> be incorporated into the "Releases" section? Or it could be a separate,
> curated section where a certain "featured" tag gets placed on a release
> to put it into this menu?
>
>
Great idea!

A "What can you do with pygame?" type section.

Bringing back the 'spotlight' projects would be nice. Project of the
week/month, or something like your featured tag.



> I'd re-state the original question though. Is this looking to highlight
> Pygame's usage as more than just a game library, or is this to highlight
> some of the educational resources that Python offers educators?
>
>
Well, this question was about teaching resources... but yes, it would be
nice to highlight that it can be used for other things than games.

Definitely, I think this is also a good page we should have on there.



>
> --
>   Craig Maloney  (cr...@decafbad.net)  http://decafbad.net
>

Re: [pygame] teaching resources

[René Dudfield]

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:46 AM, Ian Mallett  wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 4:20 AM, René Dudfield  wrote:
>
>> Whilst there are now more than a dozen books, and video series in many
>> languages for teaching pygame, I'd like to include a new section on the
>> website for educational resources for teachers. Or even better, to be able
>> to point to an existing resource.  Not particularly for 'pygame', but for
>> digital education in general, or at least python related. I wonder if you
>> have any thoughts on this?
>>
> ​This sounds awfully non-orthogonal to various current movements to bring
> CS education to the masses (which typically means coding instead, alas, but
> yet). Honestly, I'm not sure how valuable a new resource here would
> be--surely, there are educational sites for teaching, and same but specific
> for Python?
>
>
I'd like to link to these other resources, and have a place to put
resources.


> What makes sense to me would be a section specifically on using pygame. We
> already have something of this sort (I know; I've been
> looking-at/sprucing-up the current tutorials), but these are largely dated,
> and don't span the whole of what pygame has to offer. They're also
> text-dense, which is apparently not a popular way to learn things anymore.
>
>

I think tutorials sections and such are fine for self learning types.  But
for people trying to teach, or do activities as a group, that's a different
style of resource.

For sure, they could do with a run through, to remove the spam, and put the
more high quality ones to the top.



> Anything else I should link to?
>>
> ​What would have been most helpful for me when I learned pygame would have
> been some solid foundation to build on. I offer my pygame hello world
> 
> and pygame-GL-2 hello world
> 
> as minimal, best-practices, public-domain resources (links have been stable
> for years, but mirroring would be ideal).
>
> Ian​
>


Yes, minimal best practices tutorials are probably something we should
point to.

I'd like to have ones that have tests, and also packaging python included
in there for distribution. Also, a pretty well polished full game that we
can point to. I thought solarwolf could have been that, but it's sort of a
bit large perhaps, and the code needs updating to current best practice
python idioms.

Re: [pygame] teaching resources

[Paul Vincent Craven]

I've worked on http://programarcadegames.com for about 7 years now. I've
led hundreds of students through the material, updated it, and improved it
every week. With the examples, translations,  and videos, I really think it
is the best quality educational resource for Pygame out there. I know I'm
biased, but I don't think any other resource has had more editing not had
more students go through it.

On Mar 18, 2017 5:20 AM, "René Dudfield"  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Whilst there are now more than a dozen books, and video series in many
> languages for teaching pygame, I'd like to include a new section on the
> website for educational resources for teachers. Or even better, to be able
> to point to an existing resource.  Not particularly for 'pygame', but for
> digital education in general, or at least python related. I wonder if you
> have any thoughts on this? Maybe there could be some sort of collaboration
> here. Or you could give me some guidance on where to point people?
>
> Is there something existing where resources have some sort of quality
> control? If there's not something good existing, it would nice to find out
> what is required here.
>
> Is this the only thing on the raspberry pi side?
> https://www.raspberrypi.org/resources/teach/
> Are there any places which collect raspberry pi teaching resources in
> other languages (than English)?
> Is this the place for microbit? http://microbit.org/teach/
> Is there some place for python in general?
> Anything else I should link to?
>
> A teacher sent me a photo of a wall showing drawings the kids all made
> with pygame and printed the other day. He did it for a drawing class.
> Another did a class with 'sound boards', where the kids jumped around on
> the dance mats making 'music'. For me it would be interesting to send her a
> link with resources for teaching music. She also teaches Finnish, and is
> always interested in finding resources to do that in an interesting way. So
> if there's something I can link to people by topic, that would be awesome
> sauce?
>
> Next time someone shows me something like "community.computingatschool.o
> rg.uk/resources/4952", rather saying... "chuck it on the wiki!" perhaps
> there's a better more useful answer I can give them?
> Or is that the place to send them? (I'm not sure they'd be interested in
> Japanese/German/etc resources)
>
>
>
>
> best,
>
>

Re: [pygame] teaching resources

[René Dudfield]

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:36 AM, Radomir Dopieralski 
wrote:

> It's still a work in progress, but there is:
> http://pythonineducation.org/
>

Oh, cool.

Re: [pygame] teaching resources

[Craig Maloney]

* René Dudfield (ren...@gmail.com) wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> A teacher sent me a photo of a wall showing drawings the kids all made with
> pygame and printed the other day. He did it for a drawing class. Another
> did a class with 'sound boards', where the kids jumped around on the dance
> mats making 'music'. For me it would be interesting to send her a link with
> resources for teaching music. She also teaches Finnish, and is always
> interested in finding resources to do that in an interesting way. So if
> there's something I can link to people by topic, that would be awesome
> sauce?

I'm wondering if there might be room on the Pygame site for a "uses"
category to show folks what Pygame could be used for. Perhaps this could
be incorporated into the "Releases" section? Or it could be a separate,
curated section where a certain "featured" tag gets placed on a release
to put it into this menu?

I'd re-state the original question though. Is this looking to highlight
Pygame's usage as more than just a game library, or is this to highlight
some of the educational resources that Python offers educators?


--
  Craig Maloney  (cr...@decafbad.net)  http://decafbad.net

Re: [pygame] teaching resources

[Ian Mallett]

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 4:20 AM, René Dudfield  wrote:

> Whilst there are now more than a dozen books, and video series in many
> languages for teaching pygame, I'd like to include a new section on the
> website for educational resources for teachers. Or even better, to be able
> to point to an existing resource.  Not particularly for 'pygame', but for
> digital education in general, or at least python related. I wonder if you
> have any thoughts on this?
>
​This sounds awfully non-orthogonal to various current movements to bring
CS education to the masses (which typically means coding instead, alas, but
yet). Honestly, I'm not sure how valuable a new resource here would
be--surely, there are educational sites for teaching, and same but specific
for Python?

What makes sense to me would be a section specifically on using pygame. We
already have something of this sort (I know; I've been
looking-at/sprucing-up the current tutorials), but these are largely dated,
and don't span the whole of what pygame has to offer. They're also
text-dense, which is apparently not a popular way to learn things anymore.


> Anything else I should link to?
>
​What would have been most helpful for me when I learned pygame would have
been some solid foundation to build on. I offer my pygame hello world

and pygame-GL-2 hello world

as minimal, best-practices, public-domain resources (links have been stable
for years, but mirroring would be ideal).

Ian​

Re: [pygame] teaching resources

[Radomir Dopieralski]

It's still a work in progress, but there is:
http://pythonineducation.org/

On Sat, 18 Mar 2017 11:20:04 +0100
René Dudfield  wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> Whilst there are now more than a dozen books, and video series in many
> languages for teaching pygame, I'd like to include a new section on
> the website for educational resources for teachers. Or even better,
> to be able to point to an existing resource.  Not particularly for
> 'pygame', but for digital education in general, or at least python
> related. I wonder if you have any thoughts on this? Maybe there could
> be some sort of collaboration here. Or you could give me some
> guidance on where to point people?
> 
> Is there something existing where resources have some sort of quality
> control? If there's not something good existing, it would nice to
> find out what is required here.
> 
> Is this the only thing on the raspberry pi side?
> https://www.raspberrypi.org/resources/teach/
> Are there any places which collect raspberry pi teaching resources in
> other languages (than English)?
> Is this the place for microbit? http://microbit.org/teach/
> Is there some place for python in general?
> Anything else I should link to?
> 
> A teacher sent me a photo of a wall showing drawings the kids all
> made with pygame and printed the other day. He did it for a drawing
> class. Another did a class with 'sound boards', where the kids jumped
> around on the dance mats making 'music'. For me it would be
> interesting to send her a link with resources for teaching music. She
> also teaches Finnish, and is always interested in finding resources
> to do that in an interesting way. So if there's something I can link
> to people by topic, that would be awesome sauce?
> 
> Next time someone shows me something like
> "community.computingatschool.o rg.uk/resources/4952", rather
> saying... "chuck it on the wiki!" perhaps there's a better more
> useful answer I can give them? Or is that the place to send them?
> (I'm not sure they'd be interested in Japanese/German/etc resources)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> best,



-- 
Radomir Dopieralski

-- 
Radomir Dopieralski

[pygame] teaching resources

[René Dudfield]

Hello,

Whilst there are now more than a dozen books, and video series in many
languages for teaching pygame, I'd like to include a new section on the
website for educational resources for teachers. Or even better, to be able
to point to an existing resource.  Not particularly for 'pygame', but for
digital education in general, or at least python related. I wonder if you
have any thoughts on this? Maybe there could be some sort of collaboration
here. Or you could give me some guidance on where to point people?

Is there something existing where resources have some sort of quality
control? If there's not something good existing, it would nice to find out
what is required here.

Is this the only thing on the raspberry pi side?
https://www.raspberrypi.org/resources/teach/
Are there any places which collect raspberry pi teaching resources in other
languages (than English)?
Is this the place for microbit? http://microbit.org/teach/
Is there some place for python in general?
Anything else I should link to?

A teacher sent me a photo of a wall showing drawings the kids all made with
pygame and printed the other day. He did it for a drawing class. Another
did a class with 'sound boards', where the kids jumped around on the dance
mats making 'music'. For me it would be interesting to send her a link with
resources for teaching music. She also teaches Finnish, and is always
interested in finding resources to do that in an interesting way. So if
there's something I can link to people by topic, that would be awesome
sauce?

Next time someone shows me something like "community.computingatschool.o
rg.uk/resources/4952", rather saying... "chuck it on the wiki!" perhaps
there's a better more useful answer I can give them?
Or is that the place to send them? (I'm not sure they'd be interested in
Japanese/German/etc resources)




best,