Re: [pypy-dev] implementing the additional repo migrations
On 02/26/2011 01:03 PM, Armin Rigo wrote: Hi Laura, On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 10:59 AM, Laura Creightonl...@openend.se wrote: I don't care about the old versions of binary files. That was the only thing we talked about -- as far as I understood, it was never suggested that we should stop tracking revisions of .txt or .tex files. I don't know the BigfilesExtension either, but it looks to me like we can achieve some more precise result manually. Something along the lines of: the .pdf's built from .tex's are not checked in, but they are in some standardized place on http://pypy.org, where we can fetch them, update them (via ssh), or point people to (via their url). This can be easily done with a script independent from Mercurial. (The point is of course that tracking revisions is a bit useless, because we can always go back in time and re-run latex2pdf.) Not necessarily, it's always possible that whatever latex packages were needed to compile the pdf are no longer around or a big hassle to install. This can make regeneration impractical. So I am in favor of keeping the PDFs in the repo. Carl Friedrich ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] Change to the frontpage of speed.pypy.org
Resend. I seem to have typed python-...@codespeak.net last time. sorry Miguel. I'd like to change what is displayed on the speed.python.org frontpage. Right now, as I look at http://speed.pypy.org/ I see, under a section called 'latest results' a list of all the recent times when we became slower. It's thus a 'recent problems' page -- we have actually improved in recent times in many areas, and nowhere is that shown. As we go off to PyCON, which is March 9-17, I intend to mention how great PyPy is, and that you can see it for yourself at speed.pypy.org. Thus, without lying, I would like it if the first impression of PyPy's speed that people got when looking at the site was 'we're getting faster'. Do you think you could change the front page so that what was displayed was more balanced with respect to good news and bad news? I realise that there is nothing you can do if we make a recent build that slows everything down, but for instance in build 42312:392b (Feb 26) we have improvments which are not shown on the main page. I actually think that the _trend_ is a more useful thing to display on the front page, though that might be because it is so green right now. :-) The other thing I want is for the graphs you get, for instance with http://speed.pypy.org/changes/?rev=42312:392bbf936179exe=%203env=tannit to have, in addition to the selection button beside: 'result for revision' an actual label that says 'build 42312:392b' or something that you can select with your mouse and use to paste into things like this mail article. It would also be useful to label the run with something more meaningful than 'tannit' for outsiders -- 64 bit ubuntu linux for instance. Thanks very much, Laura Creighton ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] Change to the frontpage of speed.pypy.org
Hi Laura, you bring up good points, however, it is not as straight forward as it seems. I see, under a section called 'latest results' a list of all the recent times when we became slower. It's thus a 'recent problems' page -- we have actually improved in recent times in many areas, and nowhere is that shown. Well, it really is a list of the latest results. The problem is that speed.pypy.org is foremost a tool to help in development. As such, the logic behind the latest results list is regression oriented, or let us say pessimistic. For example, this revision: http://speed.pypy.org/changes/?rev=42312:392bbf936179 The average change is actually -0.91%, which is actually an improvement, though not an statistical significant one. However, There was a sizeable regression in spitfire_cstringio, +5.21. The summary for that revision is then regression for an individual benchmark. Which is actually what developers need to know: they should check whether that revision really introduced a real regression in performance. Now, it is true that since that new main page was introduced the impression it has given is one of regressions, mostly. But if you look at all the graphs together 8http://speed.pypy.org/timeline), you see that in the last weeks there has been a slight upwards (worse performance) trend in many benchmarks. So I think Codespeed has done the right thing! Note that a week ago I did up the threshold from 3% to 4% changes That said, I do understand where you are coming from. I would point outsiders though directly to http://speed.pypy.org/comparison/ So what can some body think about what could be changed or added so that the main page doesn't give a negative impression to the non-developer? Something I could think of is to add, above the results list, a plot showing the overall trend over the last 2 or 3 months. What do you think? The other thing I want is for the graphs you get, for instance with http://speed.pypy.org/changes/?rev=42312:392bbf936179exe=%203env=tannit to have, in addition to the selection button beside: 'result for revision' an actual label that says 'build 42312:392b' or something that you can select with your mouse and use to paste into things like this mail article. I think to the right of the changes table there is a box with info for the revision, with a text field you can select and copy. Isn't that what you want? article. It would also be useful to label the run with something more meaningful than 'tannit' for outsiders -- 64 bit ubuntu linux for instance. Agreed. I would also rather call the machines/environments like that. 2011/2/27 Laura Creighton l...@openend.se: Resend. I seem to have typed python-...@codespeak.net last time. sorry Miguel. I'd like to change what is displayed on the speed.python.org frontpage. Right now, as I look at http://speed.pypy.org/ I see, under a section called 'latest results' a list of all the recent times when we became slower. It's thus a 'recent problems' page -- we have actually improved in recent times in many areas, and nowhere is that shown. As we go off to PyCON, which is March 9-17, I intend to mention how great PyPy is, and that you can see it for yourself at speed.pypy.org. Thus, without lying, I would like it if the first impression of PyPy's speed that people got when looking at the site was 'we're getting faster'. Do you think you could change the front page so that what was displayed was more balanced with respect to good news and bad news? I realise that there is nothing you can do if we make a recent build that slows everything down, but for instance in build 42312:392b (Feb 26) we have improvments which are not shown on the main page. I actually think that the _trend_ is a more useful thing to display on the front page, though that might be because it is so green right now. :-) The other thing I want is for the graphs you get, for instance with http://speed.pypy.org/changes/?rev=42312:392bbf936179exe=%203env=tannit to have, in addition to the selection button beside: 'result for revision' an actual label that says 'build 42312:392b' or something that you can select with your mouse and use to paste into things like this mail article. It would also be useful to label the run with something more meaningful than 'tannit' for outsiders -- 64 bit ubuntu linux for instance. Thanks very much, Laura Creighton ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] Change to the frontpage of speed.pypy.org
Hey. Just my 5 cents. It would be cool if default view has a down-scaled version of comparison against CPython. I can look anywhere for recent changes. Also the recent changes as they're now are not very informative and I don't use them at all. They stick around, so I don't know if they're new or old. I'm also as interested in good as in bad changes. Simply this: http://speed.pypy.org/changes/ is way more informative. Can we either just remove the red recent changes for now or simply put a vs cpython, scaled down graph there? At least for pycon this seems like a better way to go. Cheers, fijal PS. Miquel, don't get me wrong, I think you're doing an awesome job, the speed website itself was a huge step forward for us. ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] Change to the frontpage of speed.pypy.org
Adding to Maciej's 5cents: It would be cool if default view has a down-scaled version of comparison against CPython. I for one second this suggestion. Comparison against cPython is the TLDR of speed.pypy.org; the abstract, the executive-level-information. Harald -- GHUM GmbH Harald Armin Massa Spielberger Straße 49 70435 Stuttgart 0173/9409607 Amtsgericht Stuttgart, HRB 734971 - persuadere. et programmare ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] Change to the frontpage of speed.pypy.org
In a message of Sun, 27 Feb 2011 21:57:33 +0200, Maciej Fijalkowski writes: Hey. Just my 5 cents. It would be cool if default view has a down-scaled version of comparison against CPython. I can look anywhere for recent changes. Also the recent changes as they're now are not very informative and I don't use them at all. They stick around, so I don't know if they're new or old. I'm also as interested in good as in bad changes. Simply this: http://speed.pypy.org/changes/ is way more informative. Can we either just remove the red recent changes for now or simply put a vs cpython, scaled down graph there? At least for pycon this seems like a better way to go. Cheers, fijal PS. Miquel, don't get me wrong, I think you're doing an awesome job, the speed website itself was a huge step forward for us. This sounds good to me as well, and I too don't want Miquel to think that I am ungrateful for all his hard work. The site is really good for us, and thank you. Laura ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] Change to the frontpage of speed.pypy.org
Hi all, hey, it's not like I crumble at the sound of the slightest criticism ;-) Open Source is about this. Ideas, feedback, etc. Only then can we get better! I think I can draw two conclusions: - For Pycon, and maybe permanently, a general comparison against CPython or an overall timeline would be better. I see I have about 1 week to come up with something. - If Maciej, who obviously is a developer, doesn't think that the report, or recent results feature is useful, that means that at the very least it needs tweaking. I will think and experiment with different possibilities. For one I will increase the threshold again, to 5 o 6% so that there is a higher signal to noise ratio. I can also imagine showing two numbers: one for the biggest improvement and one for the biggest regression. And maybe the average. We'll see. If anyone has a clear idea of how that could become more useful please share. Cheers, Miquel 2011/2/27 Laura Creighton l...@openend.se: In a message of Sun, 27 Feb 2011 21:57:33 +0200, Maciej Fijalkowski writes: Hey. Just my 5 cents. It would be cool if default view has a down-scaled version of comparison against CPython. I can look anywhere for recent changes. Also the recent changes as they're now are not very informative and I don't use them at all. They stick around, so I don't know if they're new or old. I'm also as interested in good as in bad changes. Simply this: http://speed.pypy.org/changes/ is way more informative. Can we either just remove the red recent changes for now or simply put a vs cpython, scaled down graph there? At least for pycon this seems like a better way to go. Cheers, fijal PS. Miquel, don't get me wrong, I think you're doing an awesome job, the speed website itself was a huge step forward for us. This sounds good to me as well, and I too don't want Miquel to think that I am ungrateful for all his hard work. The site is really good for us, and thank you. Laura ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] Change to the frontpage of speed.pypy.org
Well, that use-case is covered by the RSS feed ;-) 2011/2/28 Maciej Fijalkowski fij...@gmail.com: On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 12:00 AM, Miquel Torres tob...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi all, hey, it's not like I crumble at the sound of the slightest criticism ;-) Open Source is about this. Ideas, feedback, etc. Only then can we get better! I think I can draw two conclusions:I - For Pycon, and maybe permanently, a general comparison against CPython or an overall timeline would be better. I see I have about 1 week to come up with something. - If Maciej, who obviously is a developer, doesn't think that the report, or recent results feature is useful, that means that at the very least it needs tweaking. I will think and experiment with different possibilities. For one I will increase the threshold again, to 5 o 6% so that there is a higher signal to noise ratio. I can also imagine showing two numbers: one for the biggest improvement and one for the biggest regression. And maybe the average. We'll see. If anyone has a clear idea of how that could become more useful please share. My biggest issue is with the fact that they show up and just stay. This means there is no way to distinguish between I've seen this or I didn't see this which make it useless. Cheers, Miquel 2011/2/27 Laura Creighton l...@openend.se: In a message of Sun, 27 Feb 2011 21:57:33 +0200, Maciej Fijalkowski writes: Hey. Just my 5 cents. It would be cool if default view has a down-scaled version of comparison against CPython. I can look anywhere for recent changes. Also the recent changes as they're now are not very informative and I don't use them at all. They stick around, so I don't know if they're new or old. I'm also as interested in good as in bad changes. Simply this: http://speed.pypy.org/changes/ is way more informative. Can we either just remove the red recent changes for now or simply put a vs cpython, scaled down graph there? At least for pycon this seems like a better way to go. Cheers, fijal PS. Miquel, don't get me wrong, I think you're doing an awesome job, the speed website itself was a huge step forward for us. This sounds good to me as well, and I too don't want Miquel to think that I am ungrateful for all his hard work. The site is really good for us, and thank you. Laura ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
Re: [pypy-dev] Change to the frontpage of speed.pypy.org
Also, can you change every usage of the word 'less' on the axis of the graphs to 'smaller'. As far as I can tell, every time it is an incorrect and ungramatically usage of English. Sometimes the legend is 'seconds - less is better'. But seconds are inherantly countable, so it is incorrect English to say 'there are less seconds' -- rather that there are *fewer* seconds. Or you could change that legend to read 'time in seconds' -- because time is considered uncountable, so you have more or less time, not more or fewer time. Smaller would also work here. Ratios, however, such as on http://speed.pypy.org/comparison/ cannot be 'more or less' or 'more or fewer'. They have to be greater (or larger) or smaller. Thus we need 'smaller' here. Laura ___ pypy-dev@codespeak.net http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
