[python-committers] Vote to promote Hugo van Kemenade

[Mariatta]

Hello,
I have just opened the poll to grant core dev priviliges to Hugo van
Kemenade.

Please see details at:
https://discuss.python.org/t/vote-to-promote-hugo-van-kemenade/20990

Thanks.
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[python-committers] Announcing the Python Language Summit 2022 blog posts

[Mariatta]

The blog posts about presentations and discussions from Python Language
Summit 2022 are now up for your enjoyment.

Main article:
https://pyfound.blogspot.com/2022/05/the-2022-python-language-summit_01678898482.html

- Python without the GIL

, Sam Gross
- Reaching a per-interpreter GIL

, Eric Snow
- The “Faster CPython” project: 3.12 and beyond

, Mark Shannon
- WebAssembly: Python in the browser and beyond

, Christian Heimes
- F-strings in the grammar
,
Pablo Galindo Salgado
- Cinder Async Optimisations
,
Itamar Ostricher
- The issue and PR backlog
,
Irit Katriel
- The path forward for immortal objects
,
Eddie Elizondo and Eric Snow
- Lightning talks
,
short presentations by Carl Meyer, Thomas Wouters, Kevin Modzelewski, and
Larry Hastings

Thanks Alex Waygood for the write ups!

Also thank you to all presenters and attendees for great content and
discussions.

This is the fourth Language Summit that I co-chaired with Łukasz, and also
my last one. I’m stepping down from this responsibility to free up my time
to take on other responsibilities and challenges. I’m grateful to have been
given this opportunity to serve the Python community. This has been a great
privilege and valuable experience. Thank you Lukasz for working alongside
me the past four years, and Senthil for helping out this year.

Thank you!
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[python-committers] Re: Python Language Summit at PyCon 2022 in Salt Lake City

[Mariatta]

Last call!

Please sign up for the language summit before this Saturday.

We received a number of topic proposals in the last few days, and we still
have room for more, so don't delay.

Full details at: https://us.pycon.org/2022/events/language-summit/

When: Wednesday, April 27, 2022
Where: in person during PyCon US, Salt Palace Convention Center, room TBD

Sign up to attend:  https://forms.gle/CS8B6wJdcaN3rtWV8  (closes March 25
th, 2022 AoE)
Sign up to discuss a topic: https://forms.gle/LAFE6TTYi15jL5RaA (closes
March 25th, 2022 AoE)



On Mon, Mar 21, 2022 at 9:14 AM Mariatta  wrote:

> Hi everybody,
>
> Just sending out a reminder to sign up for the language summit. The
> signups are open until EOD Friday this week.
>
> *When:* Wednesday, April 27, 2022
> *Where:* in person during PyCon US, Salt Palace Convention Center, room
> TBD
>
> *Sign up to attend:*  https://forms.gle/CS8B6wJdcaN3rtWV8
> <https://forms.gle/CS8B6wJdcaN3rtWV8> (closes March 25 th, 2022 AoE)
> *Sign up to discuss a topic:* https://forms.gle/LAFE6TTYi15jL5RaA (closes
> March 25th, 2022 AoE)
>
> Currently the room is more than half full! We have close to 30
> attendees signing up, but we haven't received a lot of presentation
> proposals yet. (less than 5)
>
> From the signups, it seems like attendees are interested in discussing
> topics like: Cinder, Faster CPython, and various PEPs. So if you've been
> thinking about submitting a proposal, please do it soon!
>
> Thank you,
>
> Mariatta, Łukasz, & Senthil
>
>
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[python-committers] Re: Python Language Summit at PyCon 2022 in Salt Lake City

[Mariatta]

Hi everybody,

Just sending out a reminder to sign up for the language summit. The signups
are open until EOD Friday this week.

*When:* Wednesday, April 27, 2022
*Where:* in person during PyCon US, Salt Palace Convention Center, room TBD

*Sign up to attend:*  https://forms.gle/CS8B6wJdcaN3rtWV8
<https://forms.gle/CS8B6wJdcaN3rtWV8> (closes March 25 th, 2022 AoE)
*Sign up to discuss a topic:* https://forms.gle/LAFE6TTYi15jL5RaA (closes
March 25th, 2022 AoE)

Currently the room is more than half full! We have close to 30
attendees signing up, but we haven't received a lot of presentation
proposals yet. (less than 5)

>From the signups, it seems like attendees are interested in discussing
topics like: Cinder, Faster CPython, and various PEPs. So if you've been
thinking about submitting a proposal, please do it soon!

Thank you,

Mariatta, Łukasz, & Senthil
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[python-committers] Python Language Summit at PyCon 2022 in Salt Lake City

[Mariatta]

We're excited to announce that the signups for Python Language Summit at
PyCon 2022 are now open.

Full details at: https://us.pycon.org/2022/events/language-summit/

After two years of virtual/online summit, we will be returning to in-person
format. We will be following the health and safety guidelines at PyCon US:
https://us.pycon.org/2022/attend/health-safety-guidelines/

*TL;DR*

When: Wednesday, April 27, 2022
Where: Salt Palace Convention Center, room TBD

Sign up to attend:  https://forms.gle/CS8B6wJdcaN3rtWV8
<https://forms.gle/CS8B6wJdcaN3rtWV8> (closes March 25 th, 2022 AoE)
Sign up to discuss a topic: https://forms.gle/LAFE6TTYi15jL5RaA (closes
March 25th, 2022 AoE)

*Who can attend*

We welcome Python core developers and triage team members, active core
contributors to Python and alternative Python implementations, and anyone
else who has a topic to discuss with core developers.

*Who can propose a discussion topic*

If you have discussion items; seeking consensus; awaiting decision on a
PEP; needing help with your core dev work; or have specific questions that
need answers from core developers, please submit a proposal. According to
feedback, our audience prefers more discussions and shorter talks.

In your proposal, please include:
- why is this topic relevant to the core developers
- what is needed from core developers out of this topic

This year's event will be covered by Alex Waygood. Detailed summary of the
event will be published at The PSF's Blog.

*Is this event recorded? Can I watch the livestream?*

No, there will be no recording and no livestream available. If you'd like
to participate in discussions, please sign up to attend. If you'd like to
listen in, please wait for Alex's blog posts after the summit.

Thank you,

Mariatta, Łukasz, & Senthil
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[python-committers] Hugo van Kemenade is now a member of the Python Triage Team

[Mariatta]

Happy new year everyone.

Just letting you know that Hugo van Kemenade (@hugovk on bpo and GitHub) is
the newest member of the Python Triage team.

I've seen Hugo's activity in various places: CPython, DevGuide, PEPs and
the core-workflow. He has 19 merged PRs and has been actively helping to
review other people's PRs and made good suggestions for improvements.

Thank you Hugo for your continued contributions to Python!
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[python-committers] Re: Opting-in for Hacktoberfest

[Mariatta]

On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 1:08 AM Chris Withers  wrote:

>
> Don't get me wrong though: I think Hacktoberfest is a terrible idea in
> that focusses on short-term fly-by contributing rather than fostering
> the long term commitments that all open source projects desperately need.
>
>
I understand the frustration and indeed there needs to be a solution for
engaging long-term contributors.
I think it's true that not everyone participating will end up as long term
contributors, but this is a general problem, and we see the same issue with
sprints at conferences as well. Perhaps only a small percentage of
participants do end up being long term contributors.
I think it's unfair to say that sprints/hacktoberfest is bad because we
don't end up with long term commitments. It's not our place to judge
people's motivation into contributing to OS projects. Some people have
never been exposed to OS before, maybe they just want to try it out and see
if it's something they want to do long term. Events like sprints and
hacktoberfest lets them experiment and to try contributing. It's ok if most
end up not wanting to continue. So maybe hacktoberfest is bad for
maintainers in general, as we get very little out of it, but it can be good
to some others. I think we should not limit ourselves into saying "only
serious/long term contributions are allowed here".

For the first time this year, there is finally some focus on open source
maintainers during hacktoberfest. Participants are also encouraged to
donate to participating projects. Since CPython project is already set up
on GitHub Sponsors, I would like to get CPython listed there so that our
project will appear on the list of projects that people can donate to,
which will help with funding of CPython development.

I'm going to go ahead and add the hacktoberfest topic to the repo later
today. I will also send an announcement to python-dev, letting people know
of our participation, and that we will opt-out if we end up with mostly low
quality and spam PRs. I will be watching the incoming PRs for the next week
so I can determine whether we should opt-out or not.
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[python-committers] Re: Opting-in for Hacktoberfest

[Mariatta]

On Thu., Oct. 7, 2021, 12:35 a.m. Chris Withers,  wrote:

> Oh, well, that would explain the sudden influx of low value/quality PRs
> including people pinging me directly by email..
>
> huge -1 from me, please can we opt out of this?
>

We are opted-out right now so none of the PRs are eligible for
hacktoberfest currently, and we're not showing up under  hacktoberfest.

Can you share some links to the PRs that you consider low quality? I'm only
aware of the codespell typo fixes.
I'd like to see if the low quality is due to hacktoberfest or whether
they're historically only ever made low quality PRs.

If indeed the low quality PR was due to hacktoberfest, then I think we
should make announcement to remind people that we're not accepting those,
(and that they could be disqualified).

When you say people are pinging you directly via email, what are they
asking for?
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[python-committers] Opting-in for Hacktoberfest

[Mariatta]

Hello,

I would like to propose that we opt-in the CPython project for
Hacktoberfest this year, by adding the hacktoberfest topic on the GitHub
repository.

https://hacktoberfest.digitalocean.com/

Hacktoberfest is an annual event organized by Digital Ocean, now in the 8th
year, where aspiring contributors are encouraged to contribute to open
source projects.

I'm a member of the Hacktoberfest Advisory council
 this year. As
council members, we discussed the focus on maintainers and rewarding
maintainers for their participation.

This year, maintainers can also get rewarded for helping to review pull
requests that come during this month.

Additionally, participating projects can get listed in their "Giving
" page, where people can
find projects to donate to. It would be great for CPython to be listed
there so people can donate through GitHub Sponsors.

In order to participate, we need to add the "hacktoberfest" topic on the
repo, it will signify that we're accepting hacktoberfest contributions.

If you, as core developers, want to be rewarded for hacktoberfest (get a
commemorative t-shirt, or have a tree planted on your behalf), then you can
sign up here: https://hacktoberfest.digitalocean.com/ (choose to sign up as
maintainer). This is totally optional.

I know you're all already reviewing PRs anyway. Yes we may receive
increased PRs, if you don't have the bandwidth of reviewing additional PRs,
you don't have to try to increase your capacity. Just continue doing what
you're already doing.

In the past, we did receive quite a number of spam/invalid PRs in this
month, which led to projects having to opt-in for hacktoberfest. Since
projects have to opt-in, it reduces the number of projects people can
contribute to. I'm hoping that CPython can opt-in this year and be
welcoming of hacktoberfest contributions.

I would suggest that we opt-in for at least a week. If we do see many
spammy PRs, then let's opt out of it. If not, we can continue.

I do have the ability to add/remove hacktoberfest topic myself, so if we're
okay with this, I can go ahead and do it. I will also remove the topic once
the month ended.

To reiterate:
- As core devs, you don't have to do anything more. Continue doing what
you're doing now.
- As core devs, it is optional for you to sign up for Hacktoberfest. If you
do sign up, you could receive commemorative t-shirt, or have a tree planted
on your behalf
- By opting in, we can get listed in Hacktoberfest's giving page, to give
exposure to our GitHub Sponsors page
- We may see more spammy PRs. If this becomes an issue, we'll opt-out.

Let me know if you have any concerns.

I'll wait till Friday, if there's no strong objection, I will proceed with
opting in.

Thanks.
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[python-committers] Re: Do I qualify for a x...@python.org email

[Mariatta]

Hi Joannah,

Yes you can request the email address by writing to postmas...@python.org



On Sat., Oct. 2, 2021, 10:02 a.m. Joannah Nanjekye, <
nanjekyejoan...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Am migrating slowly away from using my Gmail address which I use for
> CPython correspondence and development.
>
> I plan to use my university email in the interim, when I graduate it will
> be a different story, I may lose it.
>
> So do I qualify for an x...@python.org email for purposes of CPython
> development?
>
> If so, who is responsible for coordinating this?
>
> --
> Best,
> Joannah Nanjekye
>
> *"You think you know when you learn, are more sure when you can write,
> even more when you can teach, but certain when you can program." Alan J.
> Perlis*
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[python-committers] Re: Roundup to GitHub Issues migration

[Mariatta]

FWIW, GitHub announced new powerful Issues today.
> https://github.com/features/issues
>

I have asked GitHub to enable it for the Python org.



>
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[python-committers] Re: Please make sure you're following good security practices with your GitHub account

[Mariatta]

Thanks for sharing your experience, and I think it's important for us core
developers to be careful and vigilant about this.

I was wondering if we should add under the "core developers responsibility"
section (https://devguide.python.org/coredev/#responsibilities), about
securing their GitHub account with 2FA/MFA? I think this is something that
can be made as required by the org admins. (and add that we'll work with
folks if they need assistance in setting those up).



On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 12:38 PM Brett Cannon  wrote:

> I have discovered someone tried to break into my GitHub account (you can
> check yourself by going to https://github.com/settings/security-log and
> looking for "failed to login" attempts for potentially odd geographical
> locations for yourself). CPython probably would have been the biggest
> target for them had they gotten in (my work stuff is all open source and it
> would have required breaking into another account). But GitHub has a
> completely unique password and MFA turned on, so they were unsuccessful.
>
> Please make sure you have a unique password for your GitHub account and
> that you have 2FA/MFA turned on (I honestly think we should start requiring
> this; I'm sure we can get money for folks to get security keys). Other
> languages like PHP have been successfully hacked (
> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/03/hackers-backdoor-php-source-code-after-breaching-internal-git-server/),
> so this isn't a hypothetical anymore that we would be targets for folks who
> want to install a backdoor into one of the world's most popular programming
> languages and is now mission-critical for a lot of massive corporations and
> governments.
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[python-committers] Re: core-dev chat

[Mariatta]

I'm hesitant to start yet another communication channel without considering
all the maintenance work that it entails.
It's not just about "let's spin up the server" but we should think about
who will moderate and administer it.
Since we have tried various platforms in the past, and some just didn't
work for whatever reason, it would be good to analyze and find out why we
didn't like them, and how to ensure that the next platform will not end up
the same fate.
I hope we can properly evaluate how the next chosen chatting platform can
be used more effectively.


On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 11:07 AM Brett Cannon  wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 6:48 AM Senthil Kumaran 
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 09:36:52AM +0200, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>> > #python-dev on IRC has been wildly successful until perhaps 2015.
>> > Personally, I would have no problem using IRC if wanted to connect to a
>> chat
>> > for CPython at all.
>>
>> I know, it was useful, and #python is still. The bot, github, buildbot
>> made it more alerts only. Looks like Victor and few others still use it.
>>
>>
>> > Similarly, I would have no problem using Zulip.  I would even say that
>> Zulip
>> > is by far the best chat system I've ever used, and the alternatives
>> don't
>> > come near.  Its threading system is really superior to everything else.
>>
>> With Zulip, I find it hard to understand, why I need two namespaces (for
>> lack of better term) before I start writing my text in Zulip chat.
>>
>> #topic->subtopic [content]
>>
>> I have not been a part of the community that uses Zulip effectively, so
>> I haven't learnt it well.
>>
>> > The idea that if people don't use IRC and Zulip, then we should try
>> another
>> > chat system, sounds like magical thought. What kind of properties do
>> Slack,
>> > Gitter or Discord have that Zulip doesn't? They are actually quite
>> annoying
>> > in my experience.
>>
>> Some have community advantage. K8s, Golang people are on Slack. Multiple
>> Companies are on Slack, technical barrier is very low. Similar is the
>> case with Discord.
>>
>
> Yeah, I don't know if the Python community as a whole has totally settled
> on a platform.
>
>
>>
>> Community usage, and usability _perhaps_ go hand in hand. General numbers
>> could support for this.
>>
>> That said. If we (a quorum) feel comfortable using anything like IRC,
>> Zulip, I agree, we don't need another one.
>>
>
> You could launch a poll on discuss.python.org and see if there's a clear
> winner.
>
> -Brett
>
>
>>
>> --
>> Senthil
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[python-committers] Re: Commits are no longer noted in bro issues

[Mariatta]

Is the bpo message posted by the CPython emailer webhook service? If so, I
might be able to see logs on Heroku.

On Wed., May 12, 2021, 8:15 a.m. Zachary Ware, 
wrote:

> On Wed, May 12, 2021 at 9:23 AM Guido van Rossum  wrote:
> > (Could it have to do with the master->main move?)
>
> I think this is likely; we do still get messages from backport PRs.
> I'm not sure what service is actually creating the messages, though.
>
> --
> Zach
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[python-committers] Jelle Zijlstra is now a member of Python Triage team

[Mariatta]

Hello,

Wanted to share that I've granted the Python Triage membership to Jelle
Zijlstra on Monday https://github.com/python/core-workflow/issues/401

Jelle already has the bug triage permissions on bpo, and additionally is
already maintainer of python/typing, python/mypy, psf/black,
python/typeshed, and python/peps. Since he has a lot of experience already
as a maintainer for other Python tools, and has been an active contributor
to Python for several years, I had no hesitation in granting him the triage
permissions.

Thanks Jelle, for helping with triaging responsibilities!
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[python-committers] Re: How can I ignore email notifications on commits mentioning my GitHub handle on CPython forks?

[Mariatta]

> P.S. If anyone with communications channels to Github is planning to lobby
> for changes, I'd prefer a way to say, "Never notify me of @ messages in
> commit messages" followed by a special CC: address for easy filtering,
> followed by "Please don't notify me a second time when an identical commit
> shows up in a fork of a project I've already been notified for" (though all
> three of these would be good improvements with or without the others).


I'm a member of GitHub OS Maintainers feedback group. I can share this
issue with them later today.
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[python-committers] Re: Python Language Summit 2021 Signups Are Now Open

[Mariatta]

Last call for signing up for Python Language Summit. The forms will
automatically be closed at 6 AM Vancouver time tomorrow.

Currently we have 82 sign ups and 22 topic proposals.

Details: https://us.pycon.org/2021/summits/language/
Sign up stats: https://mariatta.ca/language_summit_data/
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[python-committers] Re: PyCon US passes for core devs

[Mariatta]

This is great! Thank you!

On Wed., Mar. 17, 2021, 8:23 a.m. Ewa Jodlowska,  wrote:

> Hi!
>
> As some of you may have seen, PyCon US 
> launched registration. We have dedicated passes set aside for core devs as
> part of our financial aid program.
>
> If you are interested in a free pass to PyCon US, please apply for
> financial aid via your dashboard once you create a login:
>
> https://us.pycon.org/2021/users/dashboard/
>
> *Deadline to apply is March 26, 2021*
>
> Ewa Jodlowska
> Executive Director
> Python Software Foundation
> 415-319-5237
> e...@python.org
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>
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[python-committers] Re: Python Language Summit 2021 Signups Are Now Open

[Mariatta]

The sign up for Python Language Summit is still open but only for 7 more
days!

We received a few more attendee sign ups since last time I posted here, but
we haven't received very many topic proposals yet.

If you've been thinking of proposing a discussion topic to the language
summit, now is the time.

Details: https://us.pycon.org/2021/summits/language/
Sign up stats: https://mariatta.ca/language_summit_data/


On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 12:31 PM Mariatta  wrote:

> Sign up to Python Language Summit is still open for about 3 more weeks.
>
> So far we received 32 sign ups, from 18 different regions, and 12 time
> zones to work with.
>
> We've only received 3 topics of discussions, and we definitely need more
> of those.
> If you have a topic to be discussed with Python core developers, please
> fill in the forms linked in Łukasz's post.
>
> I've made some infographics with these data, I will try to update it once
> a day: https://mariatta.ca/language_summit_data/
>
> We also have a page on PyCon US's website now:
> https://us.pycon.org/2021/summits/language/
>
> Thanks.
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 9:54 AM Łukasz Langa  wrote:
>
>> I’m happy to announce that we’ve opened the sign-up forms for the 2021
>> Python Language Summit!
>> TL;DR
>>
>>- When: Tuesday, May 11, 2021 (4 hours) and Wednesday, May 12, 2021
>>(4 hours). Exact times TBD depending on attendee timezones.
>>- Where: Online via Zoom (link will be sent via email to attendees)
>>- Co-chairs: Mariatta Wijaya & Łukasz Langa
>>- Blogger: Joanna Jablonski
>>- Sign up to attend *and actively participate*:
>>https://forms.gle/cgmGnmQMDhD2mhHY8 (closes after March 22nd, 2021
>>AoE)
>>- Propose a topic: https://forms.gle/Jui9mxsHrB4fVvAB8 (closes after
>>March 22nd, 2021 AoE)
>>
>> To get an idea of past Python Language Summits, you can read these blog
>> posts:
>>
>>- 2020: Python Software Foundation News: The 2020 Python Language
>>Summit
>>
>> <https://pyfound.blogspot.com/2020/04/the-2020-python-language-summit.html>
>>- 2019:
>>http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2019/05/the-2019-python-language-summit.html
>>- 2018: The 2018 Python Language Summit [LWN.net]
>><https://lwn.net/Articles/754152/>
>>- 2017: The 2017 Python Language Summit [LWN.net]
>><https://lwn.net/Articles/723251/>
>>
>> Do I need to sign up if I’m a Python core developer?
>>
>> Yes please! While in the past we have limited attendance to 50 people,
>> this time, due to virtual format, we will be a bit more flexible, but will
>> still keep it small and manageable. We aren’t planning to go beyond 80
>> participants. Please register to reserve your space.
>> Can I sign up if I’m not a Python core developer?
>>
>> Yes you can. In the past, we had quite a number of participants who were
>> not Python core devs. Among them were maintainers and representatives from
>> BeeWare, CircuitPython, PSF board member, PyCharm, PyPA, etc. Register if
>> you want to participate. Note that until you hear back from us, your
>> attendance is not confirmed. As explained in the question above, our
>> “space” is more flexible than usual, but in the interest of maintaining a
>> vigorous discussion space, we might still be unable to invite everyone who
>> signs up.
>> What kind of topics are covered?
>>
>> Python Language Summit is a special event with very specific audience:
>> Python core developers. Ideally your topic is not an “announcement” or
>> “project status” but rather something that will encourage further
>> discussion and questions. The more controversial, the better. An open
>> issue, group of issues, or a PEP that is awaiting decision are all good
>> topics to propose. You can also further explain why this is better
>> discussed in person instead of online.
>>
>> According to last year’s feedback, our audience prefer more discussions
>> and shorter talks.
>> Who can present a talk?
>>
>> Anyone, even if you’re not a Python core developer. However, please
>> understand that we will have to be selective as space and time are limited.
>> In particular, we are prioritizing active core contributors, as well as
>> those who we believe will be able to improve the quality of the discussions
>> at the event and bring a more diverse perspective to core Python
>> developers. Note that your topic is not confirmed until you hear back from
>> us.
>> Code of Conduct
>>
>> PyCon’s Code of Conduct
>> <https://us.pycon.org/2020/about/code-of-co

[python-committers] Re: Python Language Summit 2021 Signups Are Now Open

[Mariatta]

Sign up to Python Language Summit is still open for about 3 more weeks.

So far we received 32 sign ups, from 18 different regions, and 12 time
zones to work with.

We've only received 3 topics of discussions, and we definitely need more of
those.
If you have a topic to be discussed with Python core developers, please
fill in the forms linked in Łukasz's post.

I've made some infographics with these data, I will try to update it once
a day: https://mariatta.ca/language_summit_data/

We also have a page on PyCon US's website now:
https://us.pycon.org/2021/summits/language/

Thanks.

On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 9:54 AM Łukasz Langa  wrote:

> I’m happy to announce that we’ve opened the sign-up forms for the 2021
> Python Language Summit!
> TL;DR
>
>- When: Tuesday, May 11, 2021 (4 hours) and Wednesday, May 12, 2021 (4
>hours). Exact times TBD depending on attendee timezones.
>- Where: Online via Zoom (link will be sent via email to attendees)
>    - Co-chairs: Mariatta Wijaya & Łukasz Langa
>- Blogger: Joanna Jablonski
>- Sign up to attend *and actively participate*:
>https://forms.gle/cgmGnmQMDhD2mhHY8 (closes after March 22nd, 2021 AoE)
>- Propose a topic: https://forms.gle/Jui9mxsHrB4fVvAB8 (closes after
>March 22nd, 2021 AoE)
>
> To get an idea of past Python Language Summits, you can read these blog
> posts:
>
>- 2020: Python Software Foundation News: The 2020 Python Language
>Summit
><https://pyfound.blogspot.com/2020/04/the-2020-python-language-summit.html>
>- 2019:
>http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2019/05/the-2019-python-language-summit.html
>- 2018: The 2018 Python Language Summit [LWN.net]
><https://lwn.net/Articles/754152/>
>- 2017: The 2017 Python Language Summit [LWN.net]
><https://lwn.net/Articles/723251/>
>
> Do I need to sign up if I’m a Python core developer?
>
> Yes please! While in the past we have limited attendance to 50 people,
> this time, due to virtual format, we will be a bit more flexible, but will
> still keep it small and manageable. We aren’t planning to go beyond 80
> participants. Please register to reserve your space.
> Can I sign up if I’m not a Python core developer?
>
> Yes you can. In the past, we had quite a number of participants who were
> not Python core devs. Among them were maintainers and representatives from
> BeeWare, CircuitPython, PSF board member, PyCharm, PyPA, etc. Register if
> you want to participate. Note that until you hear back from us, your
> attendance is not confirmed. As explained in the question above, our
> “space” is more flexible than usual, but in the interest of maintaining a
> vigorous discussion space, we might still be unable to invite everyone who
> signs up.
> What kind of topics are covered?
>
> Python Language Summit is a special event with very specific audience:
> Python core developers. Ideally your topic is not an “announcement” or
> “project status” but rather something that will encourage further
> discussion and questions. The more controversial, the better. An open
> issue, group of issues, or a PEP that is awaiting decision are all good
> topics to propose. You can also further explain why this is better
> discussed in person instead of online.
>
> According to last year’s feedback, our audience prefer more discussions
> and shorter talks.
> Who can present a talk?
>
> Anyone, even if you’re not a Python core developer. However, please
> understand that we will have to be selective as space and time are limited.
> In particular, we are prioritizing active core contributors, as well as
> those who we believe will be able to improve the quality of the discussions
> at the event and bring a more diverse perspective to core Python
> developers. Note that your topic is not confirmed until you hear back from
> us.
> Code of Conduct
>
> PyCon’s Code of Conduct <https://us.pycon.org/2020/about/code-of-conduct/>
> applies and will be enforced.
>
> Thanks!
>
> @mariatta <https://discuss.python.org/u/mariatta> & @ambv
> <https://discuss.python.org/u/ambv>
>
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[python-committers] Re: bedevere/issue-number and bedevere/news: waiting for status to be reported

[Mariatta]

I tried removing the labels and adding them back. I didn't see any error
logged in heroku. The app is running, yet the webhooks appeared to be
delivered successfully, returning 200 status.

Perhaps there's a problem from GitHub side.

I'm on my phone right now and not able to further investigate until later
this evening.


On Sat., Dec. 19, 2020, 11:50 a.m. Eric V. Smith, 
wrote:

> I'm trying to merge this: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/23855
>
> It says that it's waiting on bedevere/issue-number and bedevere/news, with
> status "Waiting for status to be reported". The PR is tagged with "skip
> issue" and "skip news" (even though it has an issue). So I guess these are
> inspected by bedevere, which isn't responding.
>
> I've tried opening and closing the issue to re-trigger things, to no avail.
>
> What can I do to commit this PR? Does bedevere need to be kicked into life
> somehow? Is anyone else seeing this problem?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Eric
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[python-committers] Re: Fwd: [Python-checkins] Adding "stale" GitHub Action (GH-21247)

[Mariatta]

The PR will not get closed. The message was inaccurate, I have just merged
the fix 4 minutes ago. https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/23791

On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 6:39 PM Terry Reedy  wrote:

> As a result of this merge, I have so far received 3 emails with this
> scary message. "This PR is stale because it has been open for 30 days
> with no activity. Remove stale label or comment or this will be closed
> in 5 days".
>
> https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/23100#issuecomment-745680212
> https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/23098#issuecomment-745680248
> https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/22954#issuecomment-745680870
>
> Issues with the change:
>
> 1. What use is the message and label?  In
> https://github.com/python/core-workflow/issues/93
> Brett said that 'stale' meant that the PR was waiting on the contributor
> -- no CLA or no requested revision.  The purpose would then be to prompt
> contributors and let committers know that they could not proceed (unless
> the block was revision and one was willing to do it oneself).
>
> The actual change appears to be strictly time based as none of the PRs
> above are waiting on the author.  So what *is* the purpose of actual
> change?
>
> 2. What is the appropriate waiting time?  As I remember, most people in
> the discussion I participated in suggested longer than a month, such as
> 6 months or a year.  We seem to have been ignored.  In any case, the
> proper answer depends on the purpose.
>
> One good result was triggering miss-islington to merge a stalled
> backport PR with an approval and passed CI tests.
> https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/22843#issuecomment-745681140
> For checking miss-islinton backport PRs, I think flagging anythhing over
> 7 days would be about right.
>
> 3. Should 'stale' PRs be auto-closed?  Since closing without merging
> amounts to rejection, I am strongly opposed. Someone recently merged a
> PR based on 2012 patches on bpo.  Faster response to contributors would
> be great, but using mindless automated rules will not get us there.  In
> any case, auto-closing after 35 days strikes me as madness.
>
> As it turns out, Mariatta changed the original 5 days in the PR to -1,
> meaning never, but forgot to change the message.
>
>
>  Forwarded Message 
> Subject: [Python-checkins] Adding "stale" GitHub Action (GH-21247)
> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2020 14:59:00 -0500 (EST)
> From: Mariatta 
> Reply-To: python-...@python.org
> To: python-check...@python.org
>
>
> https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/9cc8fa6ac89e9ea3ee483675b3c373650fc1bb3a
> commit: 9cc8fa6ac89e9ea3ee483675b3c373650fc1bb3a
> branch: master
> author: Mariatta 
> committer: Mariatta 
> date: 2020-12-15T11:58:43-08:00
> summary:
>
> Adding "stale" GitHub Action (GH-21247)
>
> Added the "stale" GitHub action to the CPython repo.
> PR's older than 30 days will be labeled as stale using the "stale-pr"
> label.
>
> Closes https://github.com/python/core-workflow/issues/372
>
> Co-authored-by: Brett Cannon 
>
> files:
> A .github/workflows/stale.yml
>
> diff --git a/.github/workflows/stale.yml b/.github/workflows/stale.yml
> new file mode 100644
> index 0..706d8e11a2073
> --- /dev/null
> +++ b/.github/workflows/stale.yml
> @@ -0,0 +1,19 @@
> +name: Mark stale pull requests
> +
> +on:
> +  schedule:
> +  - cron: "0 0 * * *"
> +
> +jobs:
> +  stale:
> +
> +runs-on: ubuntu-latest
> +
> +steps:
> +- uses: actions/stale@v3
> +  with:
> +repo-token: ${{ secrets.GITHUB_TOKEN }}
> +stale-pr-message: 'This PR is stale because it has been open
> for 30 days with no activity. Remove stale label or comment or this will
> be closed in 5 days'
> +stale-pr-label: 'stale'
> +days-before-stale: 30
> +days-before-close: -1
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[python-committers] Re: PRs for 3.9

[Mariatta]

I've deployed a fix in miss-islington (
https://github.com/python/miss-islington/pull/421/files) so this should be
working again now.
I've retriggered backports to several PRs that were stuck.


On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 12:21 PM Brandt Bucher 
wrote:

> I saw a (seemingly) related issue with the bots not creating 3.8 and 3.9
> backports for this PR:
>
> https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/22736
>
> No failure message or anything. Just saying they’re “working to backport”
> the changes and never doing it.
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[python-committers] Re: dependabot gone bonkers?

[Mariatta]

Here's the reply from dependabot team:

We're aware of this issue and planning a fix. The workaround for now is to
> delete the fork and re-create it without enabling Dependabot security
> updates. Dependabot version updates (setup from config file) isn't enabled
> by default on new forks but will be if security updates has ever been
> turned on and since disabled.


Source:
https://github.com/dependabot/dependabot-core/issues/2804#issuecomment-737781797

On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 9:59 AM Guido van Rossum  wrote:

> Yup, it's because upstream cpython has this file:
>
> https://github.com/gvanrossum/cpython/blob/master/.github/dependabot.yml
>
> I still think this is a bug (or missing feature) in dependabot. Please +1
> that issue!
>
> On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 7:52 AM Mariatta  wrote:
>
>> Maybe a recent change in dependabot. This open ticket seems related
>> https://github.com/dependabot/dependabot-core/issues/2804
>>
>> On Tue., Dec. 1, 2020, 7:36 a.m. Guido van Rossum, 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I got this too on two forks of cpython. It smells like a dependabot
>>> mistake.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 04:59 Terry Reedy  wrote:
>>>
>>>> This morning I woke to find that dependabot had added two new branches
>>>> to my cpython fork
>>>> https://github.com/terryjreedy/cpython/branches
>>>> and had created corresponding PRs
>>>> https://github.com/terryjreedy/cpython/pull/3
>>>> https://github.com/terryjreedy/cpython/pull/4
>>>>
>>>> Whether all forks or all committers or just me got these, it seems
>>>> wrong.  I suspect that I should just close the extraneous PRs and
>>>> delete
>>>> the branches.
>>>>
>>>> Dependabot also created the same branches and PRs directly on
>>>> python/cpython.
>>>> https://github.com/python/cpython/branches
>>>> https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/23582
>>>> https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/23583
>>>> Only these PRs got the proper labels.  Someone should merge these PRs
>>>> and delete the branches.
>>>>
>>>> Also, it seems that dependabot should be reconfigured to not create
>>>> duplicate branches and PRs.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Terry Jan Reedy
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>>>>
>>> --
>>> --Guido (mobile)
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>>>
>>
>
> --
> --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
> *Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
> <http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/>
>
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[python-committers] Re: dependabot gone bonkers?

[Mariatta]

Maybe a recent change in dependabot. This open ticket seems related
https://github.com/dependabot/dependabot-core/issues/2804

On Tue., Dec. 1, 2020, 7:36 a.m. Guido van Rossum,  wrote:

> I got this too on two forks of cpython. It smells like a dependabot
> mistake.
>
> On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 04:59 Terry Reedy  wrote:
>
>> This morning I woke to find that dependabot had added two new branches
>> to my cpython fork
>> https://github.com/terryjreedy/cpython/branches
>> and had created corresponding PRs
>> https://github.com/terryjreedy/cpython/pull/3
>> https://github.com/terryjreedy/cpython/pull/4
>>
>> Whether all forks or all committers or just me got these, it seems
>> wrong.  I suspect that I should just close the extraneous PRs and delete
>> the branches.
>>
>> Dependabot also created the same branches and PRs directly on
>> python/cpython.
>> https://github.com/python/cpython/branches
>> https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/23582
>> https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/23583
>> Only these PRs got the proper labels.  Someone should merge these PRs
>> and delete the branches.
>>
>> Also, it seems that dependabot should be reconfigured to not create
>> duplicate branches and PRs.
>>
>> --
>> Terry Jan Reedy
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>>
> --
> --Guido (mobile)
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[python-committers] Re: Voter Roll for 2020 Steering Council Election (2021 term)

[Mariatta]

I think the PEP page hasn't been built yet to reflect the latest change.

Though you can see the raw text here:
https://github.com/python/peps/blob/master/pep-8102.rst

On Mon, Nov 30, 2020 at 10:56 AM Ethan Furman  wrote:

> On 11/30/20 10:38 AM, Ernest W. Durbin III wrote:
>
> > All core devs should review
> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-8102/#active-python-core-developers
>
> Roll not yet finalized
>
> --
> ~Ethan~
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[python-committers] Re: Welcome Batuhan Taskaya to the team!

[Mariatta]

Welcome and congrats, Batuhan! Happy to have you on board!

On Mon, Nov 9, 2020, 2:02 PM Brett Cannon  wrote:

> 
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[python-committers] New Python Triage members: Irit Katriel and Andre Delfino

[Mariatta]

This week, we granted bug triage permissions to two new members: Irit
Katriel[1] and Andre Delfino[2].

Irit has been active commenting on issues on the bug tracker and has helped
move the issues along. She is also actively participating in our sprint
this week.

Andre already has the Developer role on bpo. Andre has been contributing to
CPython for more than two years, has made lots of pull requests, many of
them merged, and is very familiar with our workflow.

Thank you Irit and Andre for all the work you do!

The requests for triage role:
[1] https://github.com/python/core-workflow/issues/378
[2] https://github.com/python/core-workflow/issues/379
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[python-committers] Re: Thank you Larry Hastings!

[Mariatta]

Thank you, Larry!

On Mon, Oct 5, 2020, 11:39 AM Barry Warsaw  wrote:

> They say being a Python Release Manager is a thankless job, so the Python
> Secret Underground (PSU), which emphatically does not exist, hereby
> officially doesn’t thank Larry for his years of diligent service as the
> Python 3.4 and 3.5 release manager.
>
> On the other hand, the Python Steering Council, Python Software
> Foundation, and worldwide Python community, all of which emphatically *do*
> exist, all extend our heartfelt thanks to Larry for his excellent
> stewardship of Python 3.4 and 3.5!
>
> Python 3.4 and 3.5 were both pivotal releases.  While the features of
> these two releases are too numerous to mention here, they introduced such
> staples as:
>
> * asyncio
> * enum
> * pathlib
> * async and await keywords
> * matrix multiplication operators
> * typing and zipapp modules
>
> and so much more.  For details, see:
>
> * https://docs.python.org/3/whatsnew/3.4.html
> * https://docs.python.org/3/whatsnew/3.5.html
>
> Larry’s first official release of 3.4.0a1 was on 2013-08-03 and his last
> Python 3.5.10 release was 2020-09-05.  That’s 7 years of exemplary release
> managing!
>
> Larry, from all of us, and from me personally, thank you so much for your
> invaluable contributions to Python.  Enjoy your retirement!
>
> Cheers,
> -Barry (on behalf of the PSC and PSF)
>
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[python-committers] Re: Welcome Brandt Bucher to the team!

[Mariatta]

Welcome to the team, Brandt!

Will you be joining the core sprint next month?
Signup form: https://forms.gle/84NkyYt5g616fs1r5
Details: https://python-core-sprint-2020.readthedocs.io/
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[python-committers] Re: RSVP: 2020 Python Core Dev Sprint

[Mariatta]

As an update, I've created  https://python-core-sprint-2020.readthedocs.io/
with some details about the schedule, participants, and sprint projects, to
give you a better idea of what to expect during the sprint.

If you're planning to participate, please fill in this form:
https://forms.gle/84NkyYt5g616fs1r5 so we have your contact info and can
add you to the participant list. (
https://python-core-sprint-2020.readthedocs.io/participants.html)

If you have questions about the sprint, please open an issue or a
discussion item in the core-sprint repo:
https://github.com/python/core-sprint

Thanks!

On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 1:10 PM Kyle Stanley  wrote:

> Hey all,
>
> We just recently finished working on the signup form for the upcoming 2020
> Python Core Dev Sprint on Oct. 19th - 23rd. In addition to getting an
> general idea of (virtual) attendance, this is being used to assess the
> topics covered, optimal start/end times for each day, and preferred social
> activities.
>
> Anyone who is a CPython core developer, engaged in a core dev mentorship,
> or a member of the Python triage team is welcome to attend!
>
> Sign up to attend here: https://forms.gle/84NkyYt5g616fs1r5
>
> We will be accepting late sign ups for this event since capacity is not a
> significant limitation, but for the purposes of scheduling the best
> possible times for everyone, it is requested that participants do so at
> their earliest convenience.
>
> Regards,
> Kyle Stanley
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[python-committers] Re: Save the date: Virtual Core Dev Sprint Oct 19-23, 2020

[Mariatta]

As an update, I've created the python/core-sprint
<https://github.com/python/core-sprint>repo to give you all visibility of
what we're up to.
You can open an issue there if you have any suggestions or questions about
the sprint.




On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:06 PM Mariatta  wrote:

> Please save the date for this year's core dev sprint, to take place
> virtually online from Oct 19 - 23, 2020.
>
> The sprint is being organized by myself and Kyle Stanley, with help from
> Ewa Jodlowska.
>
> We are still in the early planning stage, and just wanted to give you all
> a heads up so you can plan accordingly.
>
> We will keep you posted once we have more details on how the virtual
> sprint will work and how to sign up. In the meantime, if you have
> questions, concerns, or suggestions about the sprint, you can reply to this
> thread or start a new discussion on Discourse.
>
> In case you're not familiar about the core dev sprint, this is normally a
> weeklong (5 work days) sprint in person, where we would have focus time to
> work on CPython, finish your PEPs, review pull requests, etc.
>
> You can read about past core dev sprints here:
> Core dev sprint 2019
> <http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2019/10/cpython-core-developer-sprint-2019.html#:~:text=The%20core%20developer%20sprint%20is,work%20together%20free%20from%20distractions.>
> Core Dev sprint 2018
> <http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2018/09/cpython-core-developer-sprint-2018.html>
>
> Thanks for all your contributions to CPython! I hope that you would plan
> to participate  from wherever you are!
>
> - Mariatta
>
>
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[python-committers] Save the date: Virtual Core Dev Sprint Oct 19-23, 2020

[Mariatta]

Please save the date for this year's core dev sprint, to take place
virtually online from Oct 19 - 23, 2020.

The sprint is being organized by myself and Kyle Stanley, with help from
Ewa Jodlowska.

We are still in the early planning stage, and just wanted to give you all a
heads up so you can plan accordingly.

We will keep you posted once we have more details on how the virtual sprint
will work and how to sign up. In the meantime, if you have questions,
concerns, or suggestions about the sprint, you can reply to this thread or
start a new discussion on Discourse.

In case you're not familiar about the core dev sprint, this is normally a
weeklong (5 work days) sprint in person, where we would have focus time to
work on CPython, finish your PEPs, review pull requests, etc.

You can read about past core dev sprints here:
Core dev sprint 2019
<http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2019/10/cpython-core-developer-sprint-2019.html#:~:text=The%20core%20developer%20sprint%20is,work%20together%20free%20from%20distractions.>
Core Dev sprint 2018
<http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2018/09/cpython-core-developer-sprint-2018.html>

Thanks for all your contributions to CPython! I hope that you would plan to
participate  from wherever you are!

- Mariatta
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[python-committers] Re: Notification of a three-month ban from Python core development

[Mariatta]

>
> What's the point of sending this to everyone? Why wasn't this sent as a
> quote?


I'm not in the coc workgroup or steering council, but I think a copy was
sent for transparency.

I personally think it is important that we know that there was an incident,
the incident was reviewed, and action was taken. So I appreciate the update
on this matter.

Thanks.
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[python-committers] Re: GitHub pull requests

[Mariatta]

>
> Is there a way to do this if you have automerge set? I don't see a way to
> control the commit message in that case, but I could easily be missing
> something.


Yes, you need to edit the PR description. Automerge will take the PR
description as the commit message.
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[python-committers] Re: GitHub pull requests

[Mariatta]

If you want the associated bpo ticket to be closed when the PR is merged,
you have to add the commit message saying
"closes "
(Note that we should document this:
https://github.com/python/devguide/issues/502)


If you want the the associated GitHub Issue to be closed, it is similar,
you have to add to the commit message or the PR description:
"closes "
Documentation:
https://docs.github.com/en/github/managing-your-work-on-github/linking-a-pull-request-to-an-issue#linking-a-pull-request-to-an-issue-using-a-keyword
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[python-committers] Re: GitHub pull requests

[Mariatta]

>
> is it closed automatically ?


What is "it"? The PR itself? yes the PR becomes closed if it is merged.
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[python-committers] Core Workflow change: new commit to previously approved PR now requires re-review

[Mariatta]

X-post to python-committers, python-dev, and core-workflow mailing list

I have just deployed a change to bedevere-bot to address the security
concern related to automerging.(
https://github.com/python/core-workflow/issues/325)

Previously, if core dev has approved the PR and applied the "automerge"
label, the PR will be automatically merged as soon as all the required CI
checks passed. If the PR author added another commit after the PR has been
approved but before the automerge happened, the additional commit will get
merged in without additional review.

Now, if there is a new commit after the PR has been approved, it will not
be automerged until the the core dev re-reviews it. bedevere will remove
the "awaiting merge" label and apply the "awaiting core review" label.

Hope this all makes sense. And if you see any of the bot misbehaving,
please open a ticket either in core-workflow repo or in the bot's own repo.

Thanks.
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[python-committers] Re: Python Language Summit 2020 blog posts

[Mariatta]

The rest of Python Language Summit articles are now out:

Property-Based Testing for Python Builtins and the Standard Library, Zac
Hatfield-Dodds:
https://pyfound.blogspot.com/2020/05/property-based-testing-for-python.html

Core Workflow Updates, Mariatta Wijaya:
https://pyfound.blogspot.com/2020/05/core-workflow-updates-python-language.html

CPython on Mobile Platforms, Russell Keith-Magee:
https://pyfound.blogspot.com/2020/05/cpython-on-mobile-platforms.html

Lightning talks: (
https://pyfound.blogspot.com/2020/05/lightning-talks-part-2.html)
- Teaching Python with Errors by Zac Hatfield-Dodds
- State of Jython by Jim Baker
- Read the Docs features of interest by Eric Holscher
<https://t.co/2IriYhh6N3?amp=1>
Enjoy!

On Fri, May 1, 2020 at 10:02 AM Mariatta  wrote:

> Few more lightning talks from Eric Holscher and Zac Hatfield-Dodds
>>
>>
> ... and Jim Baker
>
> 
>
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[python-committers] Re: Python Language Summit 2020 blog posts

[Mariatta]

>
> Few more lightning talks from Eric Holscher and Zac Hatfield-Dodds
>
>
... and Jim Baker


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[python-committers] Python Language Summit 2020 blog posts

[Mariatta]

(x-posting to python-dev and python-committters)

Just wanted to share that the first 7 of 11 blog posts about presentations
and discussions from Python Language Summit are now up for your enjoyment.

Main article:
https://pyfound.blogspot.com/2020/04/the-2020-python-language-summit.html

Day 1:

All strings become f-strings, Eric V Smith:
https://pyfound.blogspot.com/2020/04/all-strings-become-f-strings-python.html

Replacing CPython’s Parser with a PEG-based parser, Pablo Galindo,
Lysandros Nikolaou, Guido van Rossum:
https://pyfound.blogspot.com/2020/04/replacing-cpythons-parser-python.html

A Formal Specification for the (C)Python Virtual Machine, Mark Shannon:
https://pyfound.blogspot.com/2020/04/a-formal-specification-for-cpython.html

HPy: a Future-Proof Way of Extending Python?, Antonio Cuni:
https://pyfound.blogspot.com/2020/04/hpy-future-proof-way-of-extending.html

CPython Documentation: The Next 5 Years, Carol Willing, Ned Batchelder:
https://pyfound.blogspot.com/2020/04/cpython-documentation-next-5-years.html


Day 2:

Lightning talks: (
https://pyfound.blogspot.com/2020/04/lightning-talks-part-1.html)
- What do you need from pip, PyPI, and packaging?, Sumana Harihareswara
- A Retrospective on My "Multi-Core Python" Project, Eric Snow

The Path Forward for Typing, Guido van Rossum:
https://pyfound.blogspot.com/2020/04/the-path-forward-for-typing-python.html

Stay tuned for more posts!

Property-Based Testing for Python Builtins and the Standard Library, Zac
Hatfield-Dodds

Core Workflow Updates, Mariatta Wijaya

CPython on Mobile Platforms, Russell Keith-Magee

Few more lightning talks from Eric Holscher and Zac Hatfield-Dodds

Enjoy!
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[python-committers] Re: Language Summit

[Mariatta]

On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 1:10 AM Stefan Behnel  wrote:

> Gregory P. Smith schrieb am 15.04.20 um 23:33:
> > FWIW, I found it surprising to learn that there even was an online
> language
> > summit happening (yesterday).  I hadn't heard about that being planned at
> > all.
> >
> > Just because I said "no" to attending the physical one sometime in
> ~January
> > doesn't mean I would've had the same response to joining an online one.
> >
> > But I decided to dismiss this as "whatever" rather than a diss.  I
> realize
> > coordinating these things takes work and limiting attendance only to
> those
> > who signed up for the physical one was probably easiest to transition the
> > existing plans to.
> >
> > I am reliant on summaries and anyone attending posting details.  Everyone
> > please share your slides if you have any that are meaningful without a
> talk
> > to go with them. At least to this committers list or discourse forum.  I
> > expect I feel just like all of our non-travel-enabled colleagues who feel
> > left out on a recurring basis.  =)
> >
> > Happy summiting!
>
> +1 to all of this, FWIW.
>
> Stefan
>
>
I'm sorry for the lack of information and communication from our side.
Please take into consideration that the idea of online language summit was
conceived, planned, and organized within the past 30 days amidst the global
covid-19 pandemic.
As a comparison, we had begun planning for the in-person language summit
since fall of 2019.

In our limited time and energy available, we as language summit chairs made
the choice to prioritize those who were already prepared and committed to
attend the in-person language summit, that they get the experienced we
promised. Additionally, we haven't organized such online meeting discussion
with 50 active participants before, we're still learning this new process
and did not know how well it would go.
So we decided to be conservative in our effort, and we chose to keep it a
small manageable group.

I do recognize that we could at least have sent out an update to the
community about the remote language summit, even if we couldn't take in
additional participants.
I'll definitely keep this in mind for future events.

Thank you for your understanding.
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[python-committers] Re: Language Summit

[Mariatta]

Antonio Cuni has published his slides:
https://speakerdeck.com/antocuni/hpy-a-future-proof-way-of-extending-python


On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 5:46 PM joannah nanjekye 
wrote:

> > I am reliant on summaries and anyone attending posting details.
> Everyone please share your slides if you have any that are
> > meaningful without a talk to go with them. At least to this committers
> list or discourse forum.  I expect I feel just like all of our
> > non-travel-enabled colleagues who feel left out on a recurring basis.  =)
>
> I agree. I would love to follow along if people share slides. Especially I
> was looking forward to the hpy talk by PyPy's Antonio Cuni.
> So if anyone has a link to any written residues on this discussion, I will
> be happy to catch up on it.
>
> Best,
> Joannah
>
> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 6:33 PM Gregory P. Smith  wrote:
>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 6:53 AM Brett Cannon  wrote:
>>
>>> joannah nanjekye wrote:
>>> > Hey all,
>>> > Unfortunately this year am too busy and cant even attend the language
>>> > summit mostly.
>>>
>>> :( Sorry to hear that.
>>>
>>> > However if I knew the schedule, I could sign up for a session or two
>>> online.
>>>
>>> Schedule can be found at
>>> https://us.pycon.org/2020/events/languagesummit/.
>>>
>>> > Are we going to have recordings of the sessions this year given its a
>>> zoom?
>>>
>>> I personally don't know, but my guess is no for privacy reasons. But
>>> Jesse will be attending to write up a blog post about what occurs.
>>>
>>> -Brett
>>>
>>
>> FWIW, I found it surprising to learn that there even was an online
>> language summit happening (yesterday).  I hadn't heard about that being
>> planned at all.
>>
>> Just because I said "no" to attending the physical one sometime in
>> ~January doesn't mean I would've had the same response to joining an online
>> one.
>>
>> But I decided to dismiss this as "whatever" rather than a diss.  I
>> realize coordinating these things takes work and limiting attendance only
>> to those who signed up for the physical one was probably easiest to
>> transition the existing plans to.
>>
>> I am reliant on summaries and anyone attending posting details.  Everyone
>> please share your slides if you have any that are meaningful without a talk
>> to go with them. At least to this committers list or discourse forum.  I
>> expect I feel just like all of our non-travel-enabled colleagues who feel
>> left out on a recurring basis.  =)
>>
>> Happy summiting!
>> -gps
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> > A chance to catch up later.
>>> > Best,
>>> > Joannah Nanjekye
>>> > "You think you know when you learn, are more sure when you can write,
>>> even
>>> > more when you can teach, but certain when you can program." Alan J.
>>> Perlis
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>
>
> --
> Best,
> Joannah Nanjekye
>
> *"You think you know when you learn, are more sure when you can write,
> even more when you can teach, but certain when you can program." Alan J.
> Perlis*
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[python-committers] Re: bpo email problems - Is there someone in the infra boat?

[Mariatta]

I think this is same issue as
https://github.com/python/bugs.python.org/issues/38

To get in touch with infrastructure team, you can write to infrastructure-staff
at python dot org

On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 10:44 AM Antoine Pitrou  wrote:

>
> (note - apparently the psf.org domain doesn't belong to the PSF -
> removing it from the cc list :-))
>
>
> Le 28/02/2020 à 19:42, Antoine Pitrou a écrit :
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > In the end of 2019 I've reported an issue where all b.p.o notifications
> > would get into my spam folder (apparently because my ISP's mail server
> > marks them as suspicious in the e-mail headers):
> > https://github.com/python/psf-infra-meta/issues/16
> >
> > Then since the beginning of 2020 I haven't been receiving b.p.o
> > notifications anymore.  Not even in my spam folder:
> > https://github.com/python/psf-infra-meta/issues/54
> >
> > I've never had a single response on those two issues.  This means that I
> > miss all messages that are being posted on issues for which I am in the
> > nosy list, except in extremely rare cases when I visit an issue for
> > unrelated reasons (I rarely find myself casually browsing the bug
> > tracker these days).
> >
> > I realize that e-mail delivery issues are not necessarily trivial.  But
> > at least I would hope that problems like this don't get completely
> > ignored.  Is there a way to get this sorted out?
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Antoine.
> > ___
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> >
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[python-committers] Re: Python Language Summit at PyCon 2020

[Mariatta]

Just to remind everyone that signup to the language summit is still open
for another 11 days.

So far folks have proposed topic like: f-strings, CPython’s documentation,
PEG parser, property-based testing, and more!

We’ve received a number inquiries about the language summit, so here are
some Q:

1. Do I need to sign up if I’m a Python core developer?

Yes please! Attendance is limited to 50 people. Please register to reserve
your seat in the room.

2. Can I sign up if I’m not a Python core developer?

Yes you can. Last year we had 15 participants (out of 50) who were not
Python core devs. Among them were maintainers and representatives from
BeeWare, CircuitPython, PSF board member, PyCharm, etc.

Full details at: https://us.pycon.org/2020/events/languagesummit/


On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 1:07 PM Mariatta  wrote:

> (cross posting to python-committers and python-dev)
>
> I'm happy to announce that the signups for Python Language Summit at PyCon
> 2020 is now open.
>
> Full details at: https://us.pycon.org/2020/events/languagesummit/
>
> *TL;DR*
>
> When: Wednesday, April 15, 2020, 9am–4pm (Note, we’re starting 1 hour
> earlier than usual!)
> Where: David L. Lawrence Convention Center, Pittsburgh, PA, room TBD
>
> Sign up to attend: https://forms.gle/Fg7ayhYTaY75J1r7A (closes Feb 29th,
> 2020 AoE)
> Sign up to discuss a topic: https://forms.gle/g4BXezH1Vcn7tLds5 (closes
> Feb 29th, 2020 AoE)
>
> *Who can attend*
>
> We welcome Python core developers, active core contributors to Python and
> alternative Python implementations, and anyone else who has a topic to
> discuss with core developers.
>
> *Who can propose a discussion topic*
>
> If you have discussion items; seeking consensus; awaiting decision on a
> PEP; needing help with your core dev work; or have specific questions that
> need answers from core developers, please submit a proposal. According to
> last year’s feedback, our audience prefer more discussions and shorter
> talks.
>
> To get an idea of past language summits, you can read past years' coverage:
> 2019:
> http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2019/05/the-2019-python-language-summit.html
> 2018: https://lwn.net/Articles/754152/
> 2017: https://lwn.net/Articles/723251/
>
> This year's event will be covered by A. Jesse Jiryu Davis again, and will
> be posted on PSF's blog.
> <https://us.pycon.org/2020/events/languagesummit/>
>
> Some changes to note this year:
> 1) We plan to start 1 hour earlier (9AM)
> 2) The room will have U-shaped table layout
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> Mariatta & Łukasz
>
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[python-committers] Re: getting old branches/releases

[Mariatta]

Great! Perhaps we should have this info in devguide.
https://github.com/python/devguide/issues/572
Welcoming PR.
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[python-committers] Re: getting old branches/releases

[Mariatta]

On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 3:49 PM Ethan Furman  wrote:

>
> I'm trying to get the 3.3 and 3.4 branches so I can check my libraries
> compatibility with older versions, but I do not see those branches as being
> available:
>
> How can I get those?
>
>
>

3.3 and 3.4 existed before the migration from GitHub, so we don't have the
branches.

They are in the repo as git tags.

Try:

# list all git tags matching v.3.3
git tag -l 'v3.3*'

# checkout the v.3.3.0 tag to a local branch
git checkout tags/v.3.3.0 -b my-own-3.3.0-branch
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[python-committers] Re: [Python-Dev] Python Language Summit at PyCon 2020

[Mariatta]

Thank you! Yes the right url is:
https://us.pycon.org/2020/events/languagesummit/

On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 4:32 PM Kyle Stanley  wrote:

> On the attendance application, there is currently an incorrect link to the
> informational page for the Language Summit: "
> https://us.pycon.org/2020/events/language-summit/;.
>
> Either the link could be changed to "
> https://us.pycon.org/2020/events/languagesummit/; or "
> https://us.pycon.org/2020/events/language-summit/; could be configured to
> redirect towards the correct page.
>
> On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 4:17 PM Mariatta  wrote:
>
>> (cross posting to python-committers and python-dev)
>>
>> I'm happy to announce that the signups for Python Language Summit at
>> PyCon 2020 is now open.
>>
>> Full details at: https://us.pycon.org/2020/events/languagesummit/
>>
>> *TL;DR*
>>
>> When: Wednesday, April 15, 2020, 9am–4pm (Note, we’re starting 1 hour
>> earlier than usual!)
>> Where: David L. Lawrence Convention Center, Pittsburgh, PA, room TBD
>>
>> Sign up to attend: https://forms.gle/Fg7ayhYTaY75J1r7A (closes Feb 29th,
>> 2020 AoE)
>> Sign up to discuss a topic: https://forms.gle/g4BXezH1Vcn7tLds5 (closes
>> Feb 29th, 2020 AoE)
>>
>> *Who can attend*
>>
>> We welcome Python core developers, active core contributors to Python and
>> alternative Python implementations, and anyone else who has a topic to
>> discuss with core developers.
>>
>> *Who can propose a discussion topic*
>>
>> If you have discussion items; seeking consensus; awaiting decision on a
>> PEP; needing help with your core dev work; or have specific questions that
>> need answers from core developers, please submit a proposal. According to
>> last year’s feedback, our audience prefer more discussions and shorter
>> talks.
>>
>> To get an idea of past language summits, you can read past years'
>> coverage:
>> 2019:
>> http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2019/05/the-2019-python-language-summit.html
>> 2018: https://lwn.net/Articles/754152/
>> 2017: https://lwn.net/Articles/723251/
>>
>> This year's event will be covered by A. Jesse Jiryu Davis again, and will
>> be posted on PSF's blog.
>> <https://us.pycon.org/2020/events/languagesummit/>
>>
>> Some changes to note this year:
>> 1) We plan to start 1 hour earlier (9AM)
>> 2) The room will have U-shaped table layout
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>> Mariatta & Łukasz
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>
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[python-committers] Python Language Summit at PyCon 2020

[Mariatta]

(cross posting to python-committers and python-dev)

I'm happy to announce that the signups for Python Language Summit at PyCon
2020 is now open.

Full details at: https://us.pycon.org/2020/events/languagesummit/

*TL;DR*

When: Wednesday, April 15, 2020, 9am–4pm (Note, we’re starting 1 hour
earlier than usual!)
Where: David L. Lawrence Convention Center, Pittsburgh, PA, room TBD

Sign up to attend: https://forms.gle/Fg7ayhYTaY75J1r7A (closes Feb 29th,
2020 AoE)
Sign up to discuss a topic: https://forms.gle/g4BXezH1Vcn7tLds5 (closes Feb
29th, 2020 AoE)

*Who can attend*

We welcome Python core developers, active core contributors to Python and
alternative Python implementations, and anyone else who has a topic to
discuss with core developers.

*Who can propose a discussion topic*

If you have discussion items; seeking consensus; awaiting decision on a
PEP; needing help with your core dev work; or have specific questions that
need answers from core developers, please submit a proposal. According to
last year’s feedback, our audience prefer more discussions and shorter
talks.

To get an idea of past language summits, you can read past years' coverage:
2019:
http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2019/05/the-2019-python-language-summit.html
2018: https://lwn.net/Articles/754152/
2017: https://lwn.net/Articles/723251/

This year's event will be covered by A. Jesse Jiryu Davis again, and will
be posted on PSF's blog.
<https://us.pycon.org/2020/events/languagesummit/>

Some changes to note this year:
1) We plan to start 1 hour earlier (9AM)
2) The room will have U-shaped table layout

Thanks!


Mariatta & Łukasz
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[python-committers] Re: Possible bug in voting system ? (was: Re: Reminder to vote for the 2020 Steering Council)

[Mariatta]

Thanks Brett.

Re: notifying and sending email to people who were marked as inactive by
the script.
We can send automated email via Zapier. Let me know how I can help with
this part.



On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 11:20 AM Brett Cannon  wrote:

> I want to make two quick points and then I'm bowing out of this
> conversation as this isn't going to change anything for this vote beyond
> the exemption we have already granted and no changes to PEP 13 have been
> proposed. I was trying to avoid this conversation dragging out right now,
> but people keep commenting so I want to try and provide some visibility as
> to how this ended up this way and then ask people just wait until someone
> proposes something to concretely change PEP 13 (or at least that's what I
> plan to do ).
>
> To Hynek's "code = vote" comment, technically it's "authorship or
> committal of a change in the past two years to CPython from when the voter
> roll was generated = vote". IOW you could have fixed a spelling mistake,
> merged a PR, or even made a commit and then reverted it immediately and
> still been automatically included in the voter roll. Basically the term
> "active" is very subjective and I did not want to be accused of being
> biased or unfair in declaring who was (in)active, so I did the best I could
> to be objective and automate this since there are 167 people who could
> potentially vote (and we ended up with 78 with the current set-up).
>
> As for the "please email everyone personally", I just don't have the time
> to email 30 people that Giampolo listed or the 89 total people who could
> vote but didn't commit or author something in the past two years . But do
> note that me lacking the time doesn't mean someone else can't take it upon
> themselves to reach out to folks and let them know about them (risking)
> falling off in this vote or in future votes as all of this information and
> code is accessible to all core developers; other than Ernest's roll of
> managing the vote no one is in a place of privilege, just in a place of
> putting the time in. I personally have already sank days into making this
> vote work starting months ago via pulling together the historical record
> and spending all of my precious coding time at the core dev sprints this
> year writing the code to generate the voter roll, and so sinking even more
> by managing a personal email to everyone is just too much for me to
> dedicate on top of everything else.
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[python-committers] Re: PEP 581/588 RFC: Collecting feedback about GitHub Issues

[Mariatta]

Sorry, but please leave comments in the GitHub issue, one feature request
per comment. This will allow people to give +1 reaction to your request

 https://github.com/python/core-workflow/issues/359

On Thu, Sep 12, 2019, 2:30 AM Steve Dower  wrote:

> On 11Sep2019 1117, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 10:17:48AM +0100, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
> >> In other words, vanilla GitHub issue search does address Raymond's
> request?
> >
> > Given that github search is unlikely to be able to search "our
> > voluminous history of already evaluated and decided feature requests" on
> > b.p.o then it probably doesn't.
> >
> > Besides, I spent about two minutes playing with github's filter/search,
> > not long enough to really test its capabilities and limitations.
> >
>
> I've spent a couple of years playing with GitHub's filter/search on much
> smaller projects than CPython and I find its search woefully inadequate
> compared to bpo.
>
> But I know some people find it easier, so I'll probably rely on them to
> do the history searches for me after we switch.
>
> Cheers,
> Steve
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[python-committers] PEP 581/588 RFC: Collecting feedback about GitHub Issues

[Mariatta]

(cross posting to python-committers, python-dev, core-workflow)

PEP 581: Using GitHub Issues has been accepted by the steering council, but
PEP 588: GitHub Issues Migration plan is still in progress.

I'd like to hear from core developers as well as heavy b.p.o users, the
following:

   1. what features do they find lacking from GitHub issues, or
   2. what are the things you can do in b.p.o but not in GitHub, or
   3. Other workflow that will be blocked if we were to switch to GitHub
   today

By understanding your needs, we can be better prepared for the migration,
and we can start looking for solutions.


In addition, I received tip that the GitHub team is very motivated to help
us, and if we can give them some of our most wanted features, they *might* be
able to accommodate us. But first we need to tell them what we need.
They're not promising anything, but I'd like to at least try and give them
these suggestions.

Action items:

1. Please leave your comment in this issue:
https://github.com/python/core-workflow/issues/359

2. Leave your +1 by reacting  to suggested feature by others

3. Please do this before October 1, 2019 (not a hard deadline)


Thanks
ᐧ
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[python-committers] Announcing the new Python triage team on GitHub

[Mariatta]

We have a new Python triage team on GitHub to help improve our workflow.

GitHub has a nice table that shows what a triager can or cannot do in
general:
https://help.github.com/en/articles/repository-permission-levels-for-an-organization#repository-access-for-each-permission-level

More specific roles and responsibilities of the Python triage team are
described in devguide:
https://devguide.python.org/triaging/#python-triage-team

The responsibilities are a little different than the Developer role that we
currently have on b.p.o. On GitHub, triage team members have access to
triage issues and pull requests not only in CPython repo, but also all the
repositories owned by Python core team, including: devguide repo and all
the bots' repos.

Existing b.p.o Developers are not automatically added to Python triage
team, but they can opt-in and request membership. Several reasons:
- we don't know if the triager is still active or not
- we don't know if the triager wants the added responsibilities or not

Other contributors are also welcome to request the Python triage
membership. All it takes is one core developer to approve the request.

The process is fully documented in
https://devguide.python.org/triaging/#becoming-a-member-of-the-python-triage-team,
and there is an issue template for requesting membership in core-workflow
https://github.com/python/core-workflow/issues/new/choose

The first two triage team members are Kyle Stanley and Jeroen Demeyer.
Their requests were handled in:
https://github.com/python/core-workflow/issues/353
https://github.com/python/core-workflow/issues/354

If you'd like more background on Python triage team and how we came to this
stage, all of these have been discussed in discourse:
- https://discuss.python.org/t/proposal-create-bug-triage-team-on-github/
- https://discuss.python.org/t/creating-the-python-triage-team-on-github/
-
https://discuss.python.org/t/criteria-for-promoting-people-to-the-python-triage-team/
-
https://discuss.python.org/t/who-should-be-able-to-change-what-labels-on-github/2000

We also have a project board in core-workflow:
https://github.com/python/core-workflow/projects/3

This is a new thing for us, and we're all still learning and getting use to
it. Suggestions and ideas for improving the workflow can be discussed in
Core Workflow category in discourse. Devguide improvements are also welcome.

Thanks contributors, core devs, and The PSF infra team for all the help in
getting this off the ground. And also thanks GitHub for giving us early
access to the beta triage role!


ᐧ
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[python-committers] Re: Cleaning up the historical list of core developers

[Mariatta]

>
> Let's say someone made all of their commits from 2015-07-04 to 2015-10-04
> (and when I say "commits" I mean committing or authoring in git terms).
> That means they committed over a span of less than 3 months over the entire
> history of the cpython repo and that the last commit was more than 2 years
> ago. In that instance I'm suggesting we drop the person as chances are they
> were probably a GSoC student or a sprinter who tried things out but quickly
> walked away.


Can the definition of "commit" include "merging other people's PRs", not
just their own PR?

Thanks.
ᐧ
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[python-committers] Re: Fwd: Python-checkins post from webhook-mai...@python.org requires approval

[Mariatta]

This seems to be a mailman feature. Would the suggested workaround below
work?

https://support.tigertech.net/mailman-implicit-destination

Looking at the webhook mailer repo, there doesn't seem to be any recent
code change to it, other than allowing the 3.8 branch.


On Sun, Jun 9, 2019, 8:56 AM Terry Reedy  wrote:

> Some years ago I was added to python-checkins as a moderator, but not a
> full list owner, to occasionally discard the very occasional spam.  I
> don't know who the real list owner is, if anyone.
>
> Recently, checkins from Łukasz Langa are being held.  I have no idea
> why, or what implicit destination means.
>
> Whoever understands this part of the infrastructure and know how to fix
> this should do do. I will not continue to approve these on anything like
> a timely basis.
>
> This list should have a knowledgable list owner who pays attention to
> proper checkins improperly held for moderation.
>
> -
> As list administrator, your authorization is requested for the
> following mailing list posting:
>
>  List:python-check...@python.org
>  From:webhook-mai...@python.org
>  Subject: (no subject)
>  Reason:  Message has implicit destination
>
> At your convenience, visit:
>
>  https://mail.python.org/mailman/admindb/python-checkins
>
> to approve or deny the request.
>
> -
>
> ForwardedMessage.eml
> From:
> Łukasz Langa 
>
> To: python-check...@python.org
> Subject: Add some placeholder notes for major 3.8 features (GH-13927)
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> MIME-Version: 1.0
>
>
> https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/b9438ceb20635b00f10615c5b6d8dbe56e1d=
> 486b
> 
> commit: b9438ceb20635b00f10615c5b6d8dbe56e1d486b
> branch: master
> author: Nick Coghlan 
> committer: =C5=81ukasz Langa 
> date: 2019-06-09T11:07:42+02:00
> summary:
>
> Add some placeholder notes for major 3.8 features (GH-13927)
>
> files:
> M Doc/whatsnew/3.8.rst
>
> diff --git a/Doc/whatsnew/3.8.rst b/Doc/whatsnew/3.8.rst
> index bf75387d9517..99bb793830bc 100644
> --- a/Doc/whatsnew/3.8.rst
> +++ b/Doc/whatsnew/3.8.rst
> @@ -52,6 +52,13 @@ For full details, see the :ref:`changelog `.
>  form. It will be updated substantially as Python 3.8 moves towards
> releas=
> e,
>  so it's worth checking back even after reading earlier versions.
> =20
> +   Some notable items not yet covered here:
> +
> +   * :pep:`574` - Pickle protocol 5 with out-of-band data buffer support
> +   * :pep:`578` - Runtime audit hooks for potentially sensitive operations
> +   * ``python -m asyncio`` runs a natively async REPL
> +   * ...
> +
> =20
>   Summary -- Release highlights
>
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D
> -
> ForwardedMessage.eml
> From:
> Łukasz Langa 
>
> To: python-check...@python.org
> Subject: bpo-36785: PEP 574 What's New entry (#13931)
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> MIME-Version: 1.0
>
>
> https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/c879ff247ae1b67a790ff98d2d59145302cd=
> 4e4e
> 
> commit: c879ff247ae1b67a790ff98d2d59145302cd4e4e
> branch: master
> author: Antoine Pitrou 
> committer: =C5=81ukasz Langa 
> date: 2019-06-09T14:47:15+02:00
> summary:
>
> bpo-36785: PEP 574 What's New entry (#13931)
>
> files:
> M Doc/whatsnew/3.8.rst
>
> diff --git a/Doc/whatsnew/3.8.rst b/Doc/whatsnew/3.8.rst
> index 99bb793830bc..e2f9ce8dd6e5 100644
> --- a/Doc/whatsnew/3.8.rst
> +++ b/Doc/whatsnew/3.8.rst
> @@ -54,7 +54,6 @@ For full details, see the :ref:`changelog `.
> =20
>  Some notable items not yet covered here:
> =20
> -   * :pep:`574` - Pickle protocol 5 with out-of-band data buffer support
>  * :pep:`578` - Runtime audit hooks for potentially sensitive
> operations
>  * ``python -m asyncio`` runs a natively async REPL
>  * ...
> @@ -261,6 +260,23 @@ See :pep:`590` for a full description.
>   (Contributed by Jeroen Demeyer and Mark Shannon in :issue:`36974`.)
> =20
> =20
> +Pickle protocol 5 with out-of-band data buffers
> +---
> +
> +When :mod:`pickle` is used to transfer large data between Python processes
> +in order to take advantage of multi-core or multi-machine processing,
> +it is important to optimize the transfer by reducing memory copies, and
> +possibly by applying custom techniques such as data-dependent compression.
> +
> +The :mod:`pickle` protocol 5 introduces support for out-of-band buffers
> +where :pep:`3118`-compatible data can be transmitted separately from the
> +main 

Re: [python-committers] Azure build operations

[Mariatta]

Maybe worth implementing a `retest` command so our bots can retrigger the
tests without closing PR.
Jenkins has this command.
ᐧ

On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 8:40 PM Steve Dower  wrote:

> Close/reopen is still the easiest way, unfortunately. I've been bugging
> the team to improve this, but other priorities have been higher.
>
> And I see this is a backport, which means as soon as you close it
> miss-islington will delete the branch and there's no way to restart it.
>
> If we integrated Pipelines through the GitHub app then it would have a
> "re-run check" button. I haven't done that yet as I don't have
> permissions to update our GitHub org and haven't forced someone who does
> to sit down and do it with me :)
>
> For those of us who can log in (GitHub auth integration is also delayed,
> so it's manual user management right now) there should be a "Rebuild"
> button in the new UI, but that's missing on your build for some reason.
> I'll ping some people to find out.
>
> Cheers,
> STeve
>
> On 21May2019 1110, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > How can I restart a failed build on Azure?
> >
> https://dev.azure.com/Python/cpython/_build/results?buildId=43161=logs=18d1a34d-6940-5fc1-f55b-405e2fba32b1
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Antoine.
>
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Re: [python-committers] miss-islington backport pipeline is stalled?

[Mariatta]

I'm seeing more of this today, just heads up in case you see miss-islington
not working.

Seems like this is a known issue with celery + kombu 
https://github.com/celery/kombu/issues/1019
ᐧ

On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 10:02 AM Mariatta  wrote:

> There was an error from Redis. I think this is the first time I've seen
> it, so I don't have any resolution on how to fix it right now.  
> I will look into handling the error and have miss-islington leave a
> comment in the PR when there is such error.
>
> log:
>
> at=info method=POST path="/" host=miss-islington.herokuapp.com 
> request_id=8de611a2-6112-4039-a425-97850ac989b0 fwd="140.82.115.15" 
> dyno=web.1 connect=1ms service=1005ms status=200 bytes=168 protocol=https
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: Traceback (most recent call last):
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File 
> "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/connection.py", line 
> 600, in send_packed_command
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: self._sock.sendall(item)
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: TimeoutError: [Errno 110] 
> Connection timed out
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: During handling of the above 
> exception, another exception occurred:
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: Traceback (most recent call last):
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File 
> "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/kombu/connection.py", line 
> 431, in _reraise_as_library_errors
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: yield
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File 
> "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/celery/app/base.py", line 
> 744, in send_task
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: self.backend.on_task_call(P, 
> task_id)
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File 
> "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/celery/backends/redis.py", 
> line 265, in on_task_call
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: 
> self.result_consumer.consume_from(task_id)
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File 
> "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/celery/backends/redis.py", 
> line 126, in consume_from
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: self._consume_from(task_id)
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File 
> "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/celery/backends/redis.py", 
> line 132, in _consume_from
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: self._pubsub.subscribe(key)
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File 
> "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/client.py", line 3096, 
> in subscribe
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: ret_val = 
> self.execute_command('SUBSCRIBE', *iterkeys(new_channels))
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File 
> "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/client.py", line 3009, 
> in execute_command
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: self._execute(connection, 
> connection.send_command, *args)
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File 
> "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/client.py", line 3013, 
> in _execute
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: return command(*args)
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File 
> "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/connection.py", line 
> 620, in send_command
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: 
> self.send_packed_command(self.pack_command(*args))
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File 
> "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/connection.py", line 
> 613, in send_packed_command
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: (errno, errmsg))
> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: redis.exceptions.ConnectionError: 
> Error 110 while writing to socket. Connection timed out.
>
>
>
> ᐧ
>
> On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 9:44 AM Gregory P. Smith  wrote:
>
>> Yesterday it failed to produce a backport or tell me that it couldn't
>> (after the "i'm now working on ..." message was left on the master PR).  I
>> waited a couple hours just in case and ran cherry_picker myself instead.
>> Same thing today apparently on
>> https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/13192 assuming the usual backport
>> latency is no more than a minute or two.
>>
>> -gps
>> ___
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>>
>
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Re: [python-committers] miss-islington backport pipeline is stalled?

[Mariatta]

We don't have sentry (I will ask Ernest about it), but such errors are
already sent to Zulip (
https://python.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/142203-workflow.2Fbot-api.20rate.20limit/topic/alerts/near/165174773)
and core-workflow
https://github.com/python/core-workflow/issues/257#issuecomment-490541831
But posting back to the PR itself will still be useful.
ᐧ

On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 10:04 AM Alex Gaynor  wrote:

> Would it make sense to work with the PSF infra staff so that
> miss-isslington is hooked up to the PSF Sentry account so folks can get
> email notifications and similar on unhandled exceptions?
>
> Alex
>
> On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 1:02 PM Mariatta  wrote:
>
>> There was an error from Redis. I think this is the first time I've seen
>> it, so I don't have any resolution on how to fix it right now.  
>> I will look into handling the error and have miss-islington leave a
>> comment in the PR when there is such error.
>>
>> log:
>>
>> at=info method=POST path="/" host=miss-islington.herokuapp.com 
>> request_id=8de611a2-6112-4039-a425-97850ac989b0 fwd="140.82.115.15" 
>> dyno=web.1 connect=1ms service=1005ms status=200 bytes=168 protocol=https
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: Traceback (most recent call last):
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File 
>> "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/connection.py", line 
>> 600, in send_packed_command
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: self._sock.sendall(item)
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: TimeoutError: [Errno 110] 
>> Connection timed out
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: During handling of the above 
>> exception, another exception occurred:
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: Traceback (most recent call last):
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File 
>> "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/kombu/connection.py", line 
>> 431, in _reraise_as_library_errors
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: yield
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File 
>> "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/celery/app/base.py", line 
>> 744, in send_task
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: self.backend.on_task_call(P, 
>> task_id)
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File 
>> "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/celery/backends/redis.py", 
>> line 265, in on_task_call
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: 
>> self.result_consumer.consume_from(task_id)
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File 
>> "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/celery/backends/redis.py", 
>> line 126, in consume_from
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: self._consume_from(task_id)
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File 
>> "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/celery/backends/redis.py", 
>> line 132, in _consume_from
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: self._pubsub.subscribe(key)
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File 
>> "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/client.py", line 
>> 3096, in subscribe
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: ret_val = 
>> self.execute_command('SUBSCRIBE', *iterkeys(new_channels))
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File 
>> "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/client.py", line 
>> 3009, in execute_command
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: self._execute(connection, 
>> connection.send_command, *args)
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File 
>> "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/client.py", line 
>> 3013, in _execute
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: return command(*args)
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File 
>> "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/connection.py", line 
>> 620, in send_command
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: 
>> self.send_packed_command(self.pack_command(*args))
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File 
>> "/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/connection.py", line 
>> 613, in send_packed_command
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: (errno, errmsg))
>> May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: redis.exceptions.ConnectionError: 
>> Error 110 while writing to socket. Connection timed out.
>>
>>
>>
>> ᐧ
>>
>&

Re: [python-committers] miss-islington backport pipeline is stalled?

[Mariatta]

There was an error from Redis. I think this is the first time I've seen it,
so I don't have any resolution on how to fix it right now.  
I will look into handling the error and have miss-islington leave a comment
in the PR when there is such error.

log:

at=info method=POST path="/" host=miss-islington.herokuapp.com
request_id=8de611a2-6112-4039-a425-97850ac989b0 fwd="140.82.115.15"
dyno=web.1 connect=1ms service=1005ms status=200 bytes=168
protocol=https
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: Traceback (most recent call last):
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File
"/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/connection.py",
line 600, in send_packed_command
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: self._sock.sendall(item)
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: TimeoutError: [Errno 110]
Connection timed out
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: During handling of the above
exception, another exception occurred:
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: Traceback (most recent call last):
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File
"/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/kombu/connection.py",
line 431, in _reraise_as_library_errors
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: yield
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File
"/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/celery/app/base.py",
line 744, in send_task
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:
self.backend.on_task_call(P, task_id)
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File
"/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/celery/backends/redis.py",
line 265, in on_task_call
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:
self.result_consumer.consume_from(task_id)
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File
"/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/celery/backends/redis.py",
line 126, in consume_from
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: self._consume_from(task_id)
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File
"/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/celery/backends/redis.py",
line 132, in _consume_from
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: self._pubsub.subscribe(key)
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File
"/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/client.py",
line 3096, in subscribe
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: ret_val =
self.execute_command('SUBSCRIBE', *iterkeys(new_channels))
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File
"/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/client.py",
line 3009, in execute_command
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:
self._execute(connection, connection.send_command, *args)
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File
"/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/client.py",
line 3013, in _execute
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: return command(*args)
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File
"/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/connection.py",
line 620, in send_command
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:
self.send_packed_command(self.pack_command(*args))
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:   File
"/app/.heroku/python/lib/python3.6/site-packages/redis/connection.py",
line 613, in send_packed_command
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1: (errno, errmsg))
May 08 09:35:15 miss-islington app/web.1:
redis.exceptions.ConnectionError: Error 110 while writing to socket.
Connection timed out.



ᐧ

On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 9:44 AM Gregory P. Smith  wrote:

> Yesterday it failed to produce a backport or tell me that it couldn't
> (after the "i'm now working on ..." message was left on the master PR).  I
> waited a couple hours just in case and ran cherry_picker myself instead.
> Same thing today apparently on
> https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/13192 assuming the usual backport
> latency is no more than a minute or two.
>
> -gps
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Re: [python-committers] Merge with spurious CI failures?

[Mariatta]

If you can't merge from GitHub UI then you won't be able to do it from
GitHub command line (it respects the same branch protection policy)

I don't think we should merge if tests are still failing. Perhaps the test
should be adjusted to handle this spurious errors? Can it be marked as
"allowed failure" or something like that?


On Wed, May 8, 2019, 8:32 AM Antoine Pitrou  wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
> There are spurious CI failures (SSL certificate issue in test_httplib).
> Therefore the "Squash and merge" button is greyed out.
>
> How should I merge? Using the command-line instructions from Github?
>
> Regards
>
> Antoine.
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[python-committers] Reminder: Python Language Summit 2019 Signup

[Mariatta]

Just another reminder that sign up is still open for Python Language Summit
(until March 21st, 2019)

TL;DR:

When: Wednesday, May 1, 2019, 10am–4pm
Where: Huntington Convention Center, Cleveland, Ohio
Apply: Attendance sign up form  (before
March 21, 2019)
Speak: Topic submission form  (before
March 21, 2019)
You will be notified by April 15, 2019
Co-chairs: and Łukasz
Blogger: A. Jesse Jiryu Davis

All language summit attendees are also invited for dinner with PyCon staff
and volunteers right after the summit. Details will be forwarded once we
confirm your attendance. Since I don't want to miss the dinner, we will be
more strict with timing and not go overtime.

So far, we have a number of interesting topics proposed by core developers
as well as by members of the wider Python community. Some of the proposed
topic are: PEP 581, async REPL, Python 3.9 release cadence, core Python
mentorship, manylinux, etc.

If you have any questions, the Users section of our Discourse
instance (https://discuss.python.org/c/users) is the best place to ask.
For private communication, write to maria...@python.org and/or
luk...@python.org.
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Re: [python-committers] Date for the Language Summit?

[Mariatta]

Date is listed here. More info will be added here too.
https://us.pycon.org/2019/events/language-summit/
Process will be slightly different this year. Sorry, I'm busy with
PyCascades this week. Next time I'll have more time to devote to this.

On Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 5:21 AM Mariatta  wrote:

> Date is listed here. More info will be added here too.
> https://us.pycon.org/2019/events/language-summit/
> Process will be slightly different this year. Sorry, I'm busy with
> PyCascades this week. Next time I'll have more time to devote to this.
>
> On Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 2:45 AM Matthias Klose  wrote:
>
>> On 21.02.19 11:38, Victor Stinner wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > What will be the date of the Language Summit? I had to organize myself
>> > very soon to get cheap flight and hotel, so I already booked
>> > everything for Pycon US :-)
>>
>> +1
>>
>> > Who will be allowed to attend? Will we have enough seats for all
>> > CPython core devs?
>> >
>> > Mariatta, Lukasz: do you plan to invite people from other popular
>> > Python projects or other Python implementations?
>>
>> I would like to see some presence of setuptools/pip maintainers. I think
>> that
>> was missed at last PyCon by Conda developers, and distro packagers from
>> RedHat
>> and Debian/Ubuntu.
>>
>> Matthias
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Re: [python-committers] Cheryl Sabella promoted as core dev

[Mariatta Wijaya]

Congrats, Cheryl.

Thank you for all your contributions so far. Glad to have you on the team.
ᐧ

On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 9:19 AM Victor Stinner  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I opened a vote during 1 week to promote Cheryl Sabella. She got the
> excellent score of 21 “+1” vs 0 “-1” with very encouraging comments.
> Moreover, the Steering Council accepted the vote.
>
> https://discuss.python.org/t/vote-to-promote-cheryl-sabella-as-a-core-developer/862
>
> Welcome aboard Cheryl!
>
> I offered to mentor her for one month to guide her in her new
> responsibilities. For example, I asked her to ask me before merging a
> pull request.
>
> Cheryl: Would you like to introduce yourself shortly?
>
> --
>
> I sent an email to GitHub admins to add her to the GitHub python-core
> team and to subscribe her to the python-committers mailing list. In
> the meanwhile, I added her in copy of this email.
>
> Ah, I already added her to
> https://discuss.python.org/groups/committers and switcher the
> "committer" bit in her https://bugs.python.org/user25861 account :-)
>
> Victor
> --
> Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.
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Re: [python-committers] Duplicate ("triplicate"?) Github notifications on Roundup

[Mariatta Wijaya]

Know issue:
https://github.com/python/bugs.python.org/issues/12#issuecomment-450681871

On Sun, Feb 3, 2019, 6:47 AM Antoine Pitrou 
> Hello,
>
> For some time now, Github notifications on Roundup when a PR is open
> arrive three times instead of one.  Is this a known issue?
>
> Regards
>
> Antoine.
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Re: [python-committers] REMINDER: governance vote is closing by end of this week

[Mariatta Wijaya]

You have about 15 hours 12 minutes left to vote, if you haven't already.

On Wed, Dec 12, 2018, 1:44 AM Łukasz Langa  You have time until December 16th AoE to rank proposals and cast your
> ballot. More information in PEP 8001.
>
> Note: reading the candidate PEPs will take you a while. Don't wait until
> Sunday.
>
> - Ł
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[python-committers] Blurb-it is now available

[Mariatta Wijaya]

Blurb-it is now available. For details, please see my post on discourse

https://discuss.python.org/t/blurb-it-is-now-available/528
ᐧ
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Re: [python-committers] A plea to stop last-minute changes to governance PEPs

[Mariatta Wijaya]

 As a reminder, PEP 8001 states:

"November 16th, 2018 to November 30th, 2018 is the official governance PEP
review period. We discourage the PEP authors from making major substantive
changes during this period, although it is expected that minor tweaks may
occur, as the result of this discussion period."

Looking at the commit history, the last change to PEP 8016 was on Nov 15 my
timezone, and I'm assuming it was Nov 15 in PEP 8016 authors' timezone too,
so I think it was still allowed. There shouldn't be any more major changes
going forward though.

I would suggest that PEP 8001 can also say that once voting start (Dec 1),
PEPs 801x should be locked and not editable anymore.


On Sun, Nov 18, 2018, 3:17 AM Antoine Pitrou 
> Hello folks,
>
> A couple days ago Nathaniel pushed significant changes to his governance
> PEP (PEP 8016).  This means some governance PEPs are apparently still
> *not* finalized.  This raises a problem: when can we consider that we
> are reading the final version of a proposal (barring wording fixes or
> improvements), not some work in progress draft?
>
> Not everyone keeps an eye daily on PEP changes and discussions.  It
> would be nice to be able to make one's mind at an idle pace.  But that
> requires that PEP authors don't make last-minute changes in an attempt
> to gather more support.
>
> In my vote, I may have to devaluate those proposals that keep changing
> in the last days before the vote, because it doesn't sound like the
> author can be trusted to propose a stable model.
>
> Regards
>
> Antoine.
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Re: [python-committers] Timeline to vote for a governance PEP

[Mariatta Wijaya]

>
> Shouldn't people who were not involved in the individual creation
> processes at least get two weeks to review the final work
> to make up their mind before entering a voting period ?
> It seems like we're completely skipping the review phase of the
> regular PEP process and going straight from PEP writing to
> a vote:



The period of Oct 8 (date when PEPs were due) up until Nov 15 (before
voting start) was meant as the "review" period, and this was stated in my
original email about timeline:
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2018-August/005960.html

I did propose that there was a period where no more changes to PEP should
be made.

Copy pasting text from that email

*Oct 1 - Nov 15: Review period.*
> All core developers will review the PEPs, and ask any questions to the PEP
> author. This timeline allows for enough time for all core devs to carefully
> review each PEPs, and for authors to respond.
>


> *Review phase 1: Oct 1- Nov 1:* Allow changes and tweaks to the proposed
> PEPs.
> I figured people will have questions and will need to clarify the PEPs
> during this period. But if we want the PEP to be final by Oct 1, that's
> fine by me. maybe allow typo fixes still.
>


> *Review phase 2: Nov 1 00:00:00 UTC*: No more changes to the above PEPs.
> No more tweaks to these PEPs. PRs to these PEPs should be rejected.
> This is the final chance to carefully review all governance PEPs, and
> formulate your decisions.
>


> *Nov 15 00:00:00 UTC: Voting for new governance model starts, and will go
> for 2 weeks*
> Send reminders for folks to vote.


But I guess some people think that whole fixed timeline thing was bad idea,
so I didn't go and enforce all of this (also I took a break from life and
reduced responsibilities).

ᐧ
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Re: [python-committers] 1 week to Oct 1

[Mariatta Wijaya]

Really sorry folks, but I also would like to request an extension, by one
week to Oct 8.
It's not because I've been slacking; I've started a five-page document
(only Barry has seen it), but I still need his help before it can be ready
for the public.
In addition, I'm facing personal health issue. I'll be unable to work on
the proposal for the next few days.

I hope this will be ok with you all. Sorry again for delaying this process.

Although we should still be good to "vote" on proposals by Mid November. I
still think it would be good for that PEP 8001 to be ready sooner, so we
all have good understanding of how this all will go down.

Thanks.
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Re: [python-committers] Council / board (Was: 1 week to Oct 1)

[Mariatta Wijaya]

> * Mariatta proposed to require to have a least one woman in that
> council.

> Why stop at women?


My actual wording was: "not all white men", which actually means quite
different from "must include one woman".

I don't appreciate you jumping straight to accusing me for discrimination.
Assume positive intent, and ask for clarity before scrutinizing and making
accusations.

My PEP will provide guideline on how members of the group should be
nominated, and it is a long list. It will not name names. Only once the PEP
has been accepted that people can nominate folks to fill the role, and
there will be another round of voting.

Some of the questions asked by Victor will be answered in the PEP that I'm
writing, so I will not answer now.
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[python-committers] 1 week to Oct 1

[Mariatta Wijaya]

It is now 7 days until October 1, the deadline for coming up with Python
Governance PEPs.

Some still relevant links:

- https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-8000/ Python Language Governance
Proposal Overview
- https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-8001 Python Governance Voting Process
- https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-8002 Open source governance survey

These are current ideas and proposals, some are placeholders still.

- https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-8010 The BDFL Governance Model
- https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-8011 The Council Governance Model
(I'm claiming this PEP)
- https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-8012 The Community Governance Model
- https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-8013/ The External Council Governance
Model
- https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-8014/ The Commons Governance Model

I have some questions:

1. Is everyone still ok with the Oct 1 as deadline for coming up with
governance PEPs?

2. How do we discuss these PEPs?

3. At the sprint, there's a small workgroup formed for coming up with the
procedure to vote. How is that coming? Could someone please write up a
brief summary? (perhaps as a separate email thread) I think it would be
great to have this written up soon, before Oct 1.

Thanks.


Mariatta
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Re: [python-committers] I have blocked someone from the Python org

[Mariatta Wijaya]

Thanks for handling it, Brett.

That kind of behavior is not something we need to allow or tolerate in this
community.
I'm fine with banning.

Mariatta

ᐧ

On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 9:18 AM Brett Cannon  wrote:

> Someone left
> https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/9195#issuecomment-420646466 which
> was clearly written to upset Victor and insult him. I warned the person
> that such behaviour is not okay and future insults would have
> ramifications (I was actually asked to ban this person to begin with but I
> gave them the benefit of the doubt considering how heated the topic
> involved has become). They then decided to seek me out on Twitter berate me
> there for my warning:
> https://twitter.com/dolkensp/status/1039949212832722944 . For that I have
> followed through with my warning and banned them from the org.
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Re: [python-committers] Automerge bot deployed

[Mariatta Wijaya]

Update to the automerge bot:

It will not merge unless there is "CLA signed" label, and no "DO-NOT-MERGE"
label.

Again, please edit the PR title and description before adding the `烙
automerge` label.
The PR title and description will be used as the squashed commit message.

Mariattaᐧ
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[python-committers] Automerge bot deployed

[Mariatta Wijaya]

I've deployed the bot to automerge CPython pull request on the master
branch.

One benefit of this is you don't need to worry about replacing "#" into
"GH-".

To get the bot to automerge:
- first edit the PR title and description, to be the commit message you
want to use.
- approve the PR (so it will have "awaiting merge" label)
- apply the "烙 automerge" label.

It will wait for ALL status checks to pass, and merge the PR, replacing `#`
with `GH-`

I've made a demo video on YouTube: https://youtu.be/p85YtKKLNno

See also previous discussions in
https://github.com/python/core-workflow/issues/29
https://github.com/python/bedevere/issues/14

The previous way of merging PR still works. If you prefer merging the PR
yourself,  just don't apply the "烙 automerge" label.

Mariatta
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[python-committers] 3 weeks to Oct 1

[Mariatta Wijaya]

Friendly reminder that it is now 3 weeks until October 1, the deadline for
coming up with Python Governance PEPs.

Barry has started several Governance PEPs:

- https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-8000/ Python Language Governance
Proposal Overview
- https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-8001 Python Governance Voting Process
- https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-8002 Open source governance survey

The following three PEPs are for placeholders. I believe the idea is to
have people claim the PEP they're planning to write, and finish writing the
PEP.

- https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-8010 The BDFL Governance Model
- https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-8011 The Council Governance Model
- https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-8012 The Community Governance Model

And don't forget about the lucky PEP number 13.
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0013/

Mariatta
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Re: [python-committers] Organizing an informational PEP on project governance options (was Re: Transfer of power)

[Mariatta Wijaya]

Hi Nathaniel,

I know you mentioned my name earlier, and thanks for thinking of me. But
I'm really sorry, I just don't have the bandwidth to help out with this
right now.

Not sure if you've made any progress yet. Since the intention is to collect
information of the various governance models out there, I was thinking
perhaps you can ask non core developers to help out with this effort. So
that way you're not constrained by the limited number of core devs and
their limited free time available.

What do you think?

Mariatta


On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 8:17 PM Nathaniel Smith  wrote:

> I'm sorry, I seem to have accidentally licked a cookie [1] here. I'm still
> keen to see this happen and to be a part of it, and have been trying to be
> find the spoons to take the lead on organizing, but it's been a few weeks
> now and that hasn't happened yet [2].
>
> Does anyone else want to take the lead here? A number of people have
> expressed interest in helping or in making introductions to other
> communities, and I think the next step would be to organize some kind of
> kick off meeting to rough out an outline and start divvying up work.
>
> -n
>
> [1] http://communitymgt.wikia.com/wiki/Cookie_Licking
> [2] not to go into too many details, but basically I'm currently sick,
> unemployed, and broke, which isn't a crisis but sorting it out is sucking
> up a lot of energy.
>
> On Jul 13, 2018 04:31, "Nathaniel Smith"  wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jul 12, 2018 at 6:35 PM, Łukasz Langa  wrote:
> > I'm +1 to an Informational PEP around the state of the art in project
> governance.
>
> I think this is a great idea. There's a lot of experience out there on
> different governance models, but of course any given project only uses
> one of them, so knowledge about what works and what doesn't is pretty
> fragmented across the F/OSS community. And this is a really important
> decision for us and our users, so we should do due diligence. For
> example, we should think this through at least as carefully as we
> thought through Github vs. Gitlab :-). A PEP is a good format to start
> doing that.
>
> I volunteer to co-author such a PEP. But I'm not up to doing it on my
> own. So... who else wants to be a co-author? (I'm not going to
> pressure anyone, but Brett, Mariatta, and Carol, please know that your
> names were the first ones that jumped to my mind when thinking about
> this :-).)
>
> What I'm thinking:
>
> - While this might eventually produce some recommendations, the
> immediate goal would just be to collect together different options and
> ideas and point out their trade-offs. I'm guessing most core devs
> aren't interested in becoming experts on open-source governance, so
> the goal here would be to help the broader community get up to speed
> and have a more informed discussion [1].
>
> - As per the general PEP philosophy, I think this is best done by
> having some amount of general discussion on
> python-dev/python-committers, plus a small group of coauthors (say 2-4
> people) who take responsibility for filtering ideas and organizing
> them in a coherent document.
>
> - Places where we'll want to look for ideas:
>   - The thread already happening on python-committers
>   - Whatever books / articles / blog posts / etc. we can find (e.g. I
> know Karl Fogel's Producing OSS book has some good discussion)
>   - Other major projects in a similar position to CPython (e.g.,
> node.js, Rust) -- what do they do, and what parts are they
> happy/not-happy about?
>   - Large Python projects (e.g. Django) -- likewise
>
> If you have suggestions for particularly interesting projects or
> excellent writing on the topic, then this thread would be a good place
> to mention them.
>
> -n
>
> [1] The NumPy project has put a lot of energy into working through
> governance issues over the last few years, and one thing that
> definitely helped was coming up with some "assigned reading" ahead of
> the main sprint where we talked about this. NumPy's problems are/were
> pretty different from CPython's, but I'm imagining this PEP as filling
> a similar role.
>
>
> --
> Nathaniel J. Smith -- https://vorpus.org
>
>
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Re: [python-committers] Push rights for new Jython contributors

[Mariatta Wijaya]

Your question is regarding push access to hg.python.org/jython, right?
Seems like according to Jython's devguide
, you'll need to send the
SSH key to hgaccou...@python.org.
But it also seems to be the same email address we used when adding
committers to hg.python.org/cpython.
Now that we're on GitHub, we don't send over SSH keys anymore.


On Sun, Aug 5, 2018, 5:23 PM fwierzbi...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> It's been a while since we added a Jython contributor, so I no longer
> know what the process would be and we have at least one person we'd
> like to add.
>
> Previously, I think the process was:
>
> 1) Contributor creates a user on bugs.python.org using their real name.
> 2) Contributor signs the PSF agreement (not the Jython-specific one,
> which is not used anymore).
> 3) Someone gives contributor push rights to hg.python.org.
>
> Is this still the process for Jython?
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Frank Wierzbicki
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Re: [python-committers] Reminder of BDFL succession timeline + CFP

[Mariatta Wijaya]

nd
including Barry's guidance of using PEP 8k+ number.
For each of the dates below, we will allow +1-2 weeks of flexibility.

*Oct 1 AoE (2 months from now):* Deadline of coming up with proposals of
governance model.

To be included in the proposal at the minimum:
- explanation and reasoning of the governance model
- expected roles and responsibilities
- candidate for the role need not be included at this time, since we're
only choosing the governance model. Depending on the governance model
chosen, we might have different people to be nominated. There will be a
separate process for nominating the candidate.
- the term of governance: is it for life? 5 years? 10 years?

Who can submit the proposal?
Python core developers. Individual core devs can submit a proposal, or
co-author the proposal with another core dev.

How to submit the proposal?
Proposal should be in a form of a PEP, numbered 8K+, and merged into peps
repo by Oct 1 AoE. Proposals not merged after Oct 1 AoE will not be
considered.

*Oct 1 - Nov 15: Review period. (6 weeks)*
All core developers will review the PEPs, and ask any questions to the PEP
author. This timeline allows for enough time for all core devs to carefully
review each PEPs, and for authors to respond.

In addition, if there is any governance PEP that comes before Oct 1
deadline, you can definitely start reviewing and discussing those. Oct 1
(+1-2 weeks) is just the cutoff for coming up with new proposals.

There will be two parts of this:

*Review phase 1: Oct 1- Nov 1 (1 month):* Allow changes and tweaks to the
proposed PEPs.
This is the period where people can ask questions or argue about the
proposed PEPs.  Again, these dates are meant so you know when you need to
start reading these PEPs, ask and answer questions in timely manner, and
request one week extension if needed.

*Review phase 2: Nov 1 - Nov 15 (2 weeks)*: No more changes to the above
PEPs.
No more discussions. This is what I consider the "cool off" period.
Questions and concerns were meant to be addressed in the previous phase.
This is the final chance to carefully review all governance PEPs, and
formulate your decisions.

*Nov 15 AoE: Voting for new governance model starts, and will go for 2
weeks*
Send reminders for folks to vote.

Who can vote:
Only core developers can vote.

*Vote will be anonymous.*
*We will use the system used to elect PSF board members.*


*Dec 1 AoE: Voting ended*.
The most voted proposal will be accepted.
Depending on the chosen governance model, we'll begin nominating candidates
to fill the role(s).

*Dec 10 AoE Deadline for nominating candidates to fill the role*
Maybe just one PEP to list all the nominations, instead of separate PEPs of
each candidates.

Who can nominate: Python core developers
Who can be nominated: Python core developers

*Dec 15 AoE Voting for new successor starts*
(Depends on the governance model chosen on Dec 1)

*Who can vote:*
*Only core developers can vote.*

*Vote will be anonymous.*
*We will use the system used to elect PSF board members.*

*Jan 1 AoE Voting for new successor ends.* Most voted candidate(s) is
chosen.


Mariatta
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Re: [python-committers] List of all core developers

[Mariatta Wijaya]

>
> I think it would also be a good idea to include core developers
> of other Python implementations in such a document, in
> separate sections, e.g. for Jython, IronPython, PyPy,
> Stackless, etc


Hmm, I don't think it is should be our (CPython) responsibility to keep
track and maintain the list of the core devs of alternate Python
implementations. Don't they have their own community / website? They have
their own repo, bug tracker, governance model, and everything, right?

Mariatta

On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 2:54 PM Eric Snow 
wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 3:44 PM M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
> > On 01.08.2018 23:28, Mariatta Wijaya wrote:
> > > See also an open issue to revamp the Developer log:
> > > https://github.com/python/devguide/issues/390
> > >
> > > Someone has also said that they're working on tracking down the dormant
> > > core devs, but now I can't find that email.
> >
> > I think the log is fine at it is, since it serves a different
> > purpose.
> >
> > The list should be in addition to the log, not replacing it.
> >
> > Resources we already have:
> >
> > * https://devguide.python.org/developers/
> > *
> >
> https://bugs.python.org/user?%40action=search=1&%40pagesize=300&%40sort=username
> > * python-committers Subscribers List (but this is currently only
> >   for list admins to see - perhaps we could make that available
> >   to list members ?!)
> > * https://hg.python.org/committers.txt
> > * for the early days:
> >
> >
> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/python/cpython/e42b705188271da108de42b55d9344642170aa2b/Misc/HISTORY
> >   in combination with
> >
> >
> https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/e42b705188271da108de42b55d9344642170aa2b/Misc/ACKS
> >   (in those times, there was no direct access to the repo
> >   and all patches had to go through the team around Guido)
>
> There's also:
>
> * the members of the github team
> * folks marked as committers as BPO
>
> I don't recall if these are exposed via public lists though.
>
> -eric
>
> > I think it would also be a good idea to include core developers
> > of other Python implementations in such a document, in
> > separate sections, e.g. for Jython, IronPython, PyPy,
> > Stackless, etc.
>
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Re: [python-committers] Reminder of BDFL succession timeline + CFP

[Mariatta Wijaya]

>
> IIRC we always promoted core devs by popular vote, so I don't think
> this would be a problem.  Do we have any candidates that are currently
> waiting for us deciding on a governance model?


If this new governance model will include core devs being able to vote on
PEPs, then I will have different opinion on how I want to vote or promote
any new core dev.

And maybe that's OK for a few months? I don't recall Guido ever
> accepting PEPs promptly. :)  Setting strict deadlines really seems
> like a last-resort option.


Please don't misunderstand my wanting to set up a deadlines and process as
wanting to rush things.
I'm open to extend the dates, and even wait another year if we need to.
Or do folks want to come up with a completely different process than what
I've proposed?

In the end, I just want to know whether we will come to decision before
2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, .. ?

Mariatta


On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 4:06 PM Yury Selivanov 
wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 6:44 PM Mariatta Wijaya
>  wrote:
> >
> >
> > Thank you for the responses and concerns.
> >
> > I do want to keep this discussion open and ongoing, and I still think
> that we do need a set deadline on things.
>
> I talked to a few core developers recently (at EuroPython and over
> messengers) and I had an impression that some of them don't like an
> idea of making a decision faster than everybody has a chance to say
> their word.  Some of them are shy to publicly object to having strict
> deadlines, some probably haven't yet seen this thread, some don't have
> time to engage right now. You also see a few -1s in this very thread.
> All in all, I really don't understand why we need to hurry here.
>
> > Currently any undecided PEP is stalled, and no one can pronounce on them.
>
> And maybe that's OK for a few months? I don't recall Guido ever
> accepting PEPs promptly. :)  Setting strict deadlines really seems
> like a last-resort option.
>
> > And we probably won't/can't promote any new core devs until we have new
> governance.
>
> IIRC we always promoted core devs by popular vote, so I don't think
> this would be a problem.  Do we have any candidates that are currently
> waiting for us deciding on a governance model?
>
> Yury
>
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Re: [python-committers] Reminder of BDFL succession timeline + CFP

[Mariatta Wijaya]

Thank you for the responses and concerns.

I do want to keep this discussion open and ongoing, and I still think that
we do need a set deadline on things.
Currently any undecided PEP is stalled, and no one can pronounce on them.
And we probably won't/can't promote any new core devs until we have new
governance.
Someone brought up the idea where core devs would be able to decide/vote on
PEPs and that would affect how we promote core devs.

I hope that having these dates will encourage all of us to prioritize this
issue and coming up with a solution.
If the deadline of January 1st is too short, please propose alternate
dates, but it should not be "whenever".

We may very well end up not having any kind of governance body
> initially and use a simple democratic voting scheme for any
> issues which may arise.


I see this as one proposal of a governance body, and it's acceptable if you
want to propose that we go this route for X years and re-evaluate it again.

It should be ok for us to choose one governance model this time, but decide
on something else next.


Mariatta
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Re: [python-committers] List of all core developers

[Mariatta Wijaya]

See also an open issue to revamp the Developer log:
https://github.com/python/devguide/issues/390

Someone has also said that they're working on tracking down the dormant
core devs, but now I can't find that email.

Mariatta


On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 2:15 PM M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:

> It's become fairly obvious that we are missing a list of core
> developers on some site. One we can use as reference and one
> which core devs can also show to other to prove they are
> core developers.
>
> I guess the natural place for such a list is the dev guide,
> but we could also use a page on www.python.org, if that's easier
> to maintain.
>
> Regarding format, I'd suggest to use the same as PSF Fellows
> list:
>
> https://www.python.org/psf/members/#fellows
>
> Thoughts ?
>
> Note: Asking for this now is not completely unintentional.
> The EuroPython Society has something to announce which will
> require such a list.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Marc-Andre Lemburg
> eGenix.com
>
> Professional Python Services directly from the Experts (#1, Aug 01 2018)
> >>> Python Projects, Coaching and Consulting ...  http://www.egenix.com/
> >>> Python Database Interfaces ...   http://products.egenix.com/
> >>> Plone/Zope Database Interfaces ...   http://zope.egenix.com/
> 
>
> ::: We implement business ideas - efficiently in both time and costs :::
>
>eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
> D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
>Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
>http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/
>   http://www.malemburg.com/
>
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Re: [python-committers] Reminder of BDFL succession timeline + CFP

[Mariatta Wijaya]

Thanks! AoE timezone works for me.
In that case, let's use AoE instead of UTC.

Mariatta


On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 1:36 PM Thomas Wouters  wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 12:42 PM Mariatta Wijaya 
> wrote:
>
>> 2. Are people ok UTC timezone?
>>
>
> FYI, for the PSF elections and similar deadlines, we use the AoE timezone:
> https://www.timeanddate.com/time/zones/aoe -- it makes it harder for
> people to miss the deadline for timezone reasons.
>
> --
> Thomas Wouters 
>
> Hi! I'm an email virus! Think twice before sending your email to help me
> spread!
>
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[python-committers] Reminder of BDFL succession timeline + CFP

[Mariatta Wijaya]

Since this is like a CFP I figured we should clarify what's expected the
proposal, and I also wanted to be more detailed in the timeline.

*Oct 1 00:00:00 UTC:* Deadline of coming up with proposals of governance
model.

To be included in the proposal:
- explanation and reasoning of the governance model
- expected roles and responsibilities
- candidate for the role need not be included at this time, since we're
only choosing the governance model. Depending on the governance model
chosen, we might have different people to be nominated. There will be a
separate process for nominating the candidate.
- the term of governance: is it for life? 5 years? 10 years?

Who can submit the proposal?
Python core developers. Individual core devs can submit a proposal, or
co-author the proposal with another core dev.

How to submit the proposal?
Proposal should be in a form of a PEP, and merged into peps repo before Oct
1 00:00:00 UTC. Proposals not merged after Oct 1 00:00:00 UTC will not be
considered.

*Oct 1 - Nov 15: Review period.*
All core developers will review the PEPs, and ask any questions to the PEP
author. This timeline allows for enough time for all core devs to carefully
review each PEPs, and for authors to respond.

There will be two parts of this:

*Review phase 1: Oct 1- Nov 1:* Allow changes and tweaks to the proposed
PEPs.
I figured people will have questions and will need to clarify the PEPs
during this period. But if we want the PEP to be final by Oct 1, that's
fine by me. maybe allow typo fixes still.

*Review phase 2: Nov 1 00:00:00 UTC*: No more changes to the above PEPs.
No more tweaks to these PEPs. PRs to these PEPs should be rejected.
This is the final chance to carefully review all governance PEPs, and
formulate your decisions.

*Nov 15 00:00:00 UTC: Voting for new governance model starts, and will go
for 2 weeks*
Send reminders for folks to vote.

Who can vote:
Only core developers can vote.

*Vote will be anonymous.*
*We will use the system used to elect PSF board members.*


*Dec 1 00:00:00 UTC: Voting ended*.
The most voted proposal will be accepted.
Depending on the chosen governance model, we'll begin nominating candidates
to fill the role(s).

*Dec 10 00:00:00 UTC Deadline for nominating candidates to fill the role*
Maybe just one PEP to list all the nominations, instead of separate PEPs of
each candidates.

Who can nominate: Python core developers
Who can be nominated: Python core developers

*Dec 15 00:00:00 UTC Voting for new successor starts*
(Depends on the governance model chosen on Dec 1)

*Who can vote:*
*Only core developers can vote.*

*Vote will be anonymous.*
*We will use the system used to elect PSF board members.*

*Jan 1 00:00:00 UTC Voting for new successor ends.* Most voted candidate(s)
is chosen.

The PSF's Code of Conduct applies to all interactions with core devs
regarding this process, including interactions in any mailing lists, zulip,
IRC, twitter, GitHub, backchannels.

Questions
1. For the purpose of eligibility (for voting or writing the PEP), who are
considered as "core developers"? Anyone in python-committers? Anyone on
Python Core GitHub team? Anyone with commit bit? What about core developers
of alternate implementation (PyPy, IronPython, etc)

2. Are people ok UTC timezone?

3. Should this be a PEP?

Mariatta
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Re: [python-committers] Mentoring Office Hours - the idea, and a question

[Mariatta Wijaya]

I've started a PR in the devguide adding the office hours of core devs that
I know of.
https://github.com/python/devguide/pull/402

Please add your own office hours in there, or create new PRs.

I think we can leave it to each core devs of how they want to do their
office hour.
For myself, a fixed weekly schedule works for me, but others might have
more flexible schedule.

Mariatta


On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 4:58 PM Mariatta Wijaya 
wrote:

> Thanks for starting this, Brian.
>
> As such, it needs a person/persons/list to contact should something arise
>> in this context that needs to be handled. What/who should that be?
>
>  * Suggestion 2: Create some new list with a few key people on it.
>>  * Suggestion 3: List some direct names. Who?
>
>
> I personally prefer knowing names. If it will be a mailing list, I'd like
> to know who are in the mailing list.
>
> Related, I believe there is a new Code of Conduct working group within the
> PSF, but I don't know what is the scope of that working group.
> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/psf-community/2018-April/000488.html
>
> Perhaps to start it could just be some of us who wants to volunteer and do
> it?
>
> I can set aside 1 hr each week Thursday as my office hours, between 7 PM -
> 8 PM Pacific.
>
>
>
> Mariatta
>
> On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 3:08 PM, Victor Stinner 
> wrote:
>
>> 2018-05-16 11:31 GMT-04:00 Victor Stinner :
>> > I'm usually available between 10:00 and 16:00 in the French timezone
>> > (currently, it's CEST = UTC+2).
>>
>> Oh, let me be more specific:
>>
>> 10:00-12:00 and 14:00-16:00, Monday to Friday
>>
>> Yeah, in France we take our time to eat ;-)
>>
>> Victor
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> ᐧ
>
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Re: [python-committers] Proposal: an explicit, time-limited moratorium on finalizing any governance decisions

[Mariatta Wijaya]

On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 8:59 AM Brett Cannon  wrote:

>
> I had Carol's same worry that while it's great to have a "no sooner than"
> date, we also can't let this drag on and we have no "settle by" date, else
> we risk losing the faith of the community in our ability to come together
> and make decisions (e.g. if I heard it took a year for a project to resolve
> this then I would think there was some major divisiveness on the team).
>
> So could we go with Nathaniel's idea of no decision before October, but
> any proposals to be ready by then as well as Ethan suggested?
>
> I would also propose we have a goal of at least choosing the governance
> model by the end of the year (and a stretch goal to even have people placed
> into created positions by then as well). I have no problem with sooner, but
> I think it might be good to try to put _some_ upper bound on this.
>
> -Brett
>
>
Sounds good.
So what about the following timelines:
Oct 1: Deadline for people to come up with proposals of governance model,
candidates, and how to vote
Dec 1: Deadline to choose a governance model, (and if possible, we choose
the new leader(s) too)
Jan 1: Deadline to choose the new leader(s), if not already chosen by Dec 1.

?
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Re: [python-committers] Proposal: an explicit, time-limited moratorium on finalizing any governance decisions

[Mariatta Wijaya]

+1


On Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 8:54 PM Ethan Furman  wrote:

> On 07/18/2018 08:45 PM, Łukasz Langa wrote:>
>  >> On Jul 18, 2018, at 9:36 PM, Nathaniel Smith  wrote:
>  >>
>  >> I propose: no governance decisions finalized before October
>  >> 1, 2018.
>  >
>  > +1 but it's okay and expected that discussions here will continue in
> the interim.
>
> Absolutely!  Without continuing discussion we'll have nothing to vote on
> come October!  ;-)
>
> --
> ~Ethan~
>
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Re: [python-committers] An alternative governance model

[Mariatta Wijaya]

Next available is PEP lucky number 13 

Mariatta


On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 4:14 PM Barry Warsaw  wrote:

> On Jul 18, 2018, at 16:06, Fred Drake  wrote:
>
> > PEP 2 is (currently) the "Procedure for Adding New Modules".  Though
> > superseded, recycling the PEP number seems out of character with the
> > RFC process from which we derived the PEP process.  Let's be cautious
> > about recycling like that; integers are cheap.
>
> Dang, so it is.  :(
>
> I don’t want to recycle numbers, so we’ll likely end up taking the next
> available low ones.
>
> Cheers,
> -Barry
>
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Re: [python-committers] An alternative governance model

[Mariatta Wijaya]

Let's be clear that we're not yet at the stage where we can vote for
anything, let alone how to vote.

Barry made one proposal, that's all.

Last week someone suggested doing research of other governance models. We
should still do that before we even start voting on anything.

Mariatta


On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 2:04 PM Łukasz Langa  wrote:

>
> > On Jul 18, 2018, at 1:23 PM, Alex Martelli  wrote:
> >
> > Since 1179 (and with a few very minor exceptions in the centuries right
> after then -- none since 1612), the Catholic Church requires a
> super-majority of 2/3 to elect a new Pope. I don't see how the choice of a
> BDFL is so much more important to the Python community, than the choice of
> a Pope is to the Catholic Church; thus, requiring 90% rather than "just"
> 2/3 seems unwarranted.
>
> This is a good point. Moreover, I'm sure Monty Python-wise it's only
> fitting for us to base our rules on a papal conclave.
>
> If we do, then it looks like 2/3 it is. However, historically cardinal
> participation rates were really high so I'd like to keep the 90%
> participation rule there.
>
> I do find it a bit problematic that a papal conclave doesn't vote "yes/no"
> but rather just places names for a predefined position using predefined
> rules.
>
> > In fact, a 90% requirement gets dangerously close to a requirement for
> unanimity -- allowing any member of the Sejm to shout "Nie pozwalam!" and
> thus end the session and nullify every decision made in the session.
>
> Oh, you know how to hit close to home! However, there's a big difference
> between one vote vetoing the ruling and ten (as there's 100+ GitHub
> committers now IIRC).
>
> But yeah, if the Vatican is fine with two thirds, it sounds like we could,
> too. By the way, if we're already studying Polish parliamentary rules, 2/3
> agreement is needed to make constitution changes.
>
> - Ł
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Re: [python-committers] Language moratorium

[Mariatta Wijaya]

>
> There is a de facto moratorium for the time being until a new governance
> model is chosen. Let's not formalize anything beyond that.


I agree.

Mariatta


On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 9:24 AM Łukasz Langa  wrote:

> There is a de facto moratorium for the time being until a new governance
> model is chosen. Let's not formalize anything beyond that.
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Łukasz Langa
>
> > On Jul 18, 2018, at 11:11 AM, Stefan Krah  wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > if I remember correctly, we had a moratorium for language changes around
> > versions 3.2-3.3.  I think during that time relatively few BDFL-level
> > decisions were required.
> >
> > Perhaps we could have one again, say for 12 months so we can figure
> things
> > out. Other Python implementations may welcome the moratorium so they can
> > catch up.
> >
> >
> > During that time we could just informally listen very closely to Guido if
> > anything requires a decision and he happens to be around. But there may
> be
> > no decisions at all.
> >
> > And yes, I guess we can successfully attempt to be nice, especially to
> him
> > (thanks for this wonderful language!).
> >
> >
> >
> > Stefan Krah
> >
> >
> >
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Re: [python-committers] Transfer of power

[Mariatta Wijaya]

Guido,

Thank you for all you've done for Python. It is well deserved break.

I'm sad, but I like to see this as an opportunity to further improve Python
and this community.

My first instinct is to suggest: instead of one successor, we will have
several people as the new "leaders", perhaps a co-BDFL, or even 3-5 people
as co-BDFLs/leaders.
This is based on my experience with organizing meetup and conference
(although these are not comparable to leading the community like Python).
The benefit is to lessen the burden and responsibilities of one person, and
they will have backups when they need to go on a break, vacation, take care
of personal life.

Another thing that came to my mind is, who is actually able (have the time
and energy) to take on this role? Most of us in open source are
volunteering on limited free time available. I'm aware some of you have
employer support, but most don't. Will this limit the candidacy to certain
people just because they have the employer support?

What is the role of the successor(s)? Do we assume "whatever Guido did", or
is this an opportunity to come up with a new process?

One useful resource is Vicky Brasseur's talk: Passing the Baton, Succession
planning for your project https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jhkm2PA_Gf8
The slides:
https://ia800809.us.archive.org/2/items/pyconau2017-successionplanning/03-pyconau2017-successionplanning-with_notes.pdf

Some ideas from that talk:
1. identify critical roles (e.g. PEP decision making)
2. refactor large roles
3. mentor the new successor, shadow the previous leader
4. document all the things

This might be selfish request, but I hope you can still assume power until
we have new successor(s).

Thanks.

Mariatta


On Thu, Jul 12, 2018 at 7:58 AM Guido van Rossum  wrote:

> Now that PEP 572 is done, I don't ever want to have to fight so hard for a
> PEP and find that so many people despise my decisions.
>
> I would like to remove myself entirely from the decision process. I'll
> still be there for a while as an ordinary core dev, and I'll still be
> available to mentor people -- possibly more available. But I'm basically
> giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL, and you all will be on
> your own.
>
> After all that's eventually going to happen regardless -- there's still
> that bus lurking around the corner, and I'm not getting younger... (I'll
> spare you the list of medical issues.)
>
> I am not going to appoint a successor.
>
> So what are you all going to do? Create a democracy? Anarchy? A
> dictatorship? A federation?
>
> I'm not worried about the day to day decisions in the issue tracker or on
> GitHub. Very rarely I get asked for an opinion, and usually it's not
> actually important. So this can just be dealt with as it has always been.
>
> The decisions that most matter are probably
> - How are PEPs decided
> - How are new core devs inducted
>
> We may be able to write up processes for these things as PEPs (maybe those
> PEPs will form a kind of constitution). But here's the catch. I'm going to
> try and let you all (the current committers) figure it out for yourselves.
>
> Note that there's still the CoC -- if you don't like that document your
> only option might be to leave this group voluntarily. Perhaps there are
> issues to decide like when should someone be kicked out (this could be
> banning people from python-dev or python-ideas too, since those are also
> covered by the CoC).
>
> Finally. A reminder that the archives of this list are public (
> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/) although membership
> is closed (limited to core devs).
>
> I'll still be here, but I'm trying to let you all figure something out for
> yourselves. I'm tired, and need a very long break.
>
> --
> --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
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Re: [python-committers] A different way to focus discussions

[Mariatta Wijaya]

For permalink in zulip, the link from "Copy link to conversation" seems to
be sufficient.
I've created a stream (
https://python.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/130206-.23pep581/subject/hello/near/129486993)
but it now has double ##  and it seems I can't rename it to remove the
extra "#"

I've been waiting for the "excitement" surrounding PEP 572 to cool down
before I want to merge PEP 581 (https://github.com/python/peps/pull/681/)

I was hoping to bypass python-ideas since we've discussed at Python
Language Summit :)  but if really needed I can start a thread there.

Mariatta


On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 10:38 AM Guido van Rossum  wrote:

> I like the Zulip idea, though it'll be hard to get permalinks to past
> discussions.
>
> Also, before going to python-dev it should probably be battle-tested in
> python-ideas (PEP 572 wasn't ready for python-dev when it was moved there,
> and I'm still recovering from the resulting brawl).
>
> On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 10:31 AM, Ethan Furman  wrote:
>
>> On 07/11/2018 09:25 AM, Mariatta Wijaya wrote:
>>
>> Sorry to bring up this old topic.
>>>
>>> I'm trying to decide how to handle discussions for PEP 581, and I'm open
>>> to try out new things :)
>>> Are we all still content with posting to python-dev?
>>> I was thinking in addition to a thread in python-dev, I want to allow
>>> discussions to take place in zulip, under a new
>>> #pep581 stream.
>>> Will that be ok?
>>>
>>
>> I think this will be a good test of Zulip, as well as incentive for folks
>> to join.
>>
>> --
>> ~Ethan~
>>
>>
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>
>
> --
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Re: [python-committers] A different way to focus discussions

[Mariatta Wijaya]

Sorry to bring up this old topic.

I'm trying to decide how to handle discussions for PEP 581, and I'm open to
try out new things :)
Are we all still content with posting to python-dev?
I was thinking in addition to a thread in python-dev, I want to allow
discussions to take place in zulip, under a new #pep581 stream.
Will that be ok?


Mariatta


On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 4:34 AM Antoine Pitrou  wrote:

>
> Le 28/06/2018 à 13:04, Victor Stinner a écrit :
> > It seems like the PEP 572 discussions restarted on python-dev mailing
> > list with more than 100 emails in one week.
> >
> > Stupid idea: we created a mailing list just to fix os.random(): PEP
> > 522 and PEP 524, whereas these discussions were not the ones with the
> > most emails. Why not creating a new pep572 mailing list for the ones
> > who don't want to follow PEP 572 discussions?
>
> PEP 572 is a language-wide change.  Presumably those who don't want to
> follow discussions will still want to give their opinion (or informal
> vote) at the end.  Which will give rise to other discussions...
>
> What strikes me is that we have such long-lasting and intense discussion
> about a feature which, whether approved or not, will not significantly
> change Python's popularity or appeal or ability to solve real-world
> problems.
>
> Perhaps this is a case where « Nature abhors a vacuum » : we're getting
> focussed on whatever comes up to fill the narrative of Python's evolution.
>
> Regards
>
> Antoine.
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Re: [python-committers] Comments on moving issues to GitHub

[Mariatta Wijaya]

>
> "Old and languishing issues should just be closed / ignored"
> I disagree with doing this blindly, and I would be mightily annoyed if
> someone did so with IDLE issues and hide valuable ideas and code.


Since you are IDLE's maintainer, I'll also be annoyed if other people
except yourself (or other IDLE maintainers) blindly close IDLE issues
without consulting you.

Many modules don't have maintainers anymore. If such issues have been
ignored for all these years, we'll probably never get to it. Might as well
close it.

The proposed idea is to provide a button that can copy over conversations
from a b.p.o issue to GitHub, and to continue discussions in GitHub. If
core devs have a list of issues they still care about, then they use this
not yet existing magic button.

The closed issue will still be in bpo, and anyone motivated enough can
migrate it to GitHub.

To deal with issues better, we need
> 1. More core developers, so more modules can have maintainers.


We need more core developers anyway, regardless of what tracker we're
using. That is a separate problem.

And perhaps this is to be discussed in a separate thread: even though in
the b.p.o we appear to have 170 committers, really there are 90 core devs
(people who has commit right to CPython on GitHub). and out of those 90, I
think only about half are currently active (since the migration to GitHub).
So yes, we need more (active) core devs.

2. Better support for core developers in the tracker.


Not sure what you mean by "support"? There are only two maintainers of the
bug tracker, they both are also Python core developers: Brett and Ezio. My
personal opinion is: they're more valuable elsewhere instead of supporting
the bug tracker. At its current state, the bug tracker is not ready to take
up new contributors, and it will not be easy effort to onboard new bpo
maintainers.

2b. Associated (linked) manager or dashboard for issues pertaining to a
> module or group of modules.


We can try the project boards as Ivan mentioned? https://help.github.com/
articles/about-project-boards/

* Labels can be grouped using name prefix and color, for example (we have
> similar structure in mypy):
>   - priority-low
>   - priority-normal
>   - priority-etc...
>   - kind-bug
>   - kind-docs
>   - kind-feature
>   - topic-asincio
>   - topic-etc..


I kinda like those!

I wonder if other hosted services, such as Gitlab, offer a more
> sophisticated issue tracker.


One thing I'm trying to avoid is having separate issue tracker and repo,
and needing different accounts.

Possibly useful for planning, if we had someone who was responsible for that
>


Perhaps for a project the size of Python we should have a dedicated Project
manager.


Mariatta
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Re: [python-committers] Comments on moving issues to GitHub

[Mariatta Wijaya]

Yup, the "mystery" was just for fun 
There is no secret. I've been thinking that we should start using GitHub
issues instead of the b.p.o.

I realized not everyone was able to get to the language summit, and I fully
intended to update python-committers with this idea.
I just haven't been reading the mailing list for sometime until today.

For those who missed it, some resources:

1. My language summit slides (
https://speakerdeck.com/mariatta/mariattas-python-language-summit-2018-presentation
)
There are 3 bonus slides at the end which I did not get to cover, because
we were running late and it was lunchtime. (in the end, we were 3 hrs
overtime.)
Those can be discussed in core-workflow.

2. LWN article: https://lwn.net/Articles/754779/
I will not be reading/responding to the comments in LWN. 蘿

3. My initial research into this topic:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1b3H-OQaZ7oc5jI9l7CEx9b_zCpao6PfEV1tIg0vpgG8/edit?usp=sharing


Mariatta

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Re: [python-committers] Proposing Mark Shannon to be a core developer

[Mariatta Wijaya]

Part of the new core dev initiation should be watching this talk, titled
"What is a Python Core Developer?" https://youtu.be/hhj7eb6TrtI

On Tue, May 15, 2018, 11:35 AM Guido van Rossum  wrote:

> Let's stop the email barrage, Mark is in. Can someone tell Mark what to do?
>
>
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Re: [python-committers] Orphaned backports

[Mariatta Wijaya]

To help with this, miss-islington will now assign the PR where backport had
failed to the core dev who merged the original PR.


Mariatta

On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 8:57 AM, Brett Cannon <br...@python.org> wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, 24 Apr 2018 at 02:59 Serhiy Storchaka <storch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> 23.04.18 19:47, Brett Cannon пише:
>>
>> On Sun, 22 Apr 2018 at 11:27 Terry Reedy <tjre...@udel.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Does github allow repository owners to send email directly to people who
>>> have submitted PRs or at least, people with commit privileges (in this
>>> case, those whose have done particular merges)?
>>>
>>
>> No. People have to provide explicit permission to expose their email
>> address. Otherwise the best we have are @ mentions in a comment.
>>
>>
>> Aren't all active committer subscribed to this mailing list?
>>
>
> They should be. Doesn't mean they pay attention to it. ;)
>
> -Brett
>
>
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Re: [python-committers] Wanting to merge my first PR under github - a bit of advice

[Mariatta Wijaya]

Some steps were written here:
https://devguide.python.org/gitbootcamp/#accepting-and-merging-a-pull-request

And the section right after explains the backport.

I guess it needs reorganizing.

Top posted from my phone while literally on a beach.

On Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 7:57 AM Paul Moore  wrote:

> On 21 March 2018 at 12:42, Nick Coghlan  wrote:
> > On 21 March 2018 at 06:58, Paul Moore  wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >> Cheryl Sabella kindly migrated a patch I'd put on bpo some time ago
> >> but forgotten about onto github. The PR (#6158) is ready to go (I
> >> think) but this is the first time since the migration to github that
> >> I've done a merge, and I'm not quite sure what the workflow is :-( I
> >> didn't see much in the devguide (which covers how to write a PR, how
> >> to test it etc, but not so much how to merge it, unless I missed
> >> something, or it's so simple that the little I did find is all that's
> >> needed!)
> >
> >
> > You didn't miss it - https://devguide.python.org/committing/ is still
> pretty
> > much written for the old approach of merging on the command line.
> >
> > So a devguide issue would definltely be appropriate, and if you're so
> > inclined, even a PR with the docs that you wish had existing when you
> looked
> > for them :)
>
> I'll certainly try to find some time to put something together. For
> now, I've raised https://github.com/python/devguide/issues/347 to
> track it.
>
> Paul
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Re: [python-committers] Save the date: Core developer sprints

[Mariatta Wijaya]

Thanks for organizing!

I should be able to attend for the whole week this time :) Looking forward
to it.

Mariatta Wijaya

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Re: [python-committers] Issues with hundreds of commits being opened and closed -- what's going on?

[Mariatta Wijaya]

I've also created https://github.com/python/bedevere/issues/69 so that the
review requests from such PRs can be dismissed automatically.

Not sure if there's anything else we can do.

Will it help when bedevere close the PR, it can leave a comment say that
"This PR is invalid. Ignore it" ?


Mariatta Wijaya

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